The difficulty of the Bastion of the Penitent

The difficulty of the Bastion of the Penitent

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Posted by: Domex.8126

Domex.8126

Hello fellow raiders!

I have heard rumours that a dev said that they made the normal encounters(without the challenge mote enabled) for this raid the easy mode that all pvers wanted and the challenge mote for the more experienced and pro raiders. Is this true? Are the bosses easier than in the earlier wings? Did the raid devs finally found the solution for the raid difficulty problem?

(edited by Domex.8126)

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Posted by: OriOri.8724

OriOri.8724

Normal encounter? Challenge encounter? What?

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Posted by: Miellyn.6847

Miellyn.6847

Normal encounter? Challenge encounter? What?

All bosses in the Bastion of the Penitent have a challenge mote. I only killed the first 2 bosses right now and especially the second felt very easy without the mote, didn’t try him with the mote on though.

Meena Wolfsgeist | Ranger
Ceana Mera | Mesmer
Indra Nebelklinge | Revenant

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Posted by: Domex.8126

Domex.8126

So can i assume that the first 2 bosses will be easily puggable?

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Posted by: OriOri.8724

OriOri.8724

Normal encounter? Challenge encounter? What?

All bosses in the Bastion of the Penitent have a challenge mote. I only killed the first 2 bosses right now and especially the second felt very easy without the mote, didn’t try him with the mote on though.

Hmm interesting. How much easier are they than the Spiritvale bosses would you say?

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Posted by: Blaeys.3102

Blaeys.3102

If true, that would be a significant step in the right direction – bringing the game back to what it should be – but we will have to see first.

However, based on what little we’ve seen so far regarding clears on reddit, it’s most likely a step in the other direction – which will only alientate and segment people even further.

Need more groups to see it first to know for sure though.

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Posted by: zealex.9410

zealex.9410

If true, that would be a significant step in the right direction – bringing the game back to what it should be – but we will have to see first.

However, based on what little we’ve seen so far regarding clears on reddit, it’s most likely a step in the other direction – which will only alientate and segment people even further.

Need more groups to see it first to know for sure though.

It really isnt, its like a step forward two steps backwards not only the 3 first bosses are way easier than the previous bosses in the previous raid but also the cm is a kc cm meaning it can be done only once and be rewarding.(only the last boss is actually challenging id say) they honestly made the raids more causal friendly which wasnt their purpose.

(edited by zealex.9410)

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Posted by: Crystal Reid

Crystal Reid

Game Designer

In the past year and a half, the overall skill level of the Guild Wars raiding community has risen at a staggering pace. Naturally, content will seem easier now as players continue to refine their theorycrafting and personal skill.

Our goal is not to make content easier, but rather add an additional layer of difficulty onto the challenge motes where it makes sense.

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Posted by: Joxer.6024

Joxer.6024

In the past year and a half, the overall skill level of the Guild Wars raiding community has risen at a staggering pace. Naturally, content will seem easier now as players continue to refine their theorycrafting and personal skill.

Our goal is not to make content easier, but rather add an additional layer of difficulty onto the challenge motes where it makes sense.

And making Engi’s needed in raids!! Ultimate goal…..just sayin

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Posted by: zealex.9410

zealex.9410

In the past year and a half, the overall skill level of the Guild Wars raiding community has risen at a staggering pace. Naturally, content will seem easier now as players continue to refine their theorycrafting and personal skill.

Our goal is not to make content easier, but rather add an additional layer of difficulty onto the challenge motes where it makes sense.

Yeah but theres no dening that the skillcap ppl need for at least the first 3 bosses of the wing is lower compaired to previous releases. With that im fine actually i got no problem but thing is the challenge ppl wanted overcomming great barriers and be handsomely rewarded isnt really there.

Sure theres the CM but if that doesnt have replayability value more seasoned raiders are left with easier encounters. It makes me wonder if a system like the cm 100 would work but with the rewards being weekly.

(edited by zealex.9410)

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Posted by: zealex.9410

zealex.9410

In the past year and a half, the overall skill level of the Guild Wars raiding community has risen at a staggering pace. Naturally, content will seem easier now as players continue to refine their theorycrafting and personal skill.

Our goal is not to make content easier, but rather add an additional layer of difficulty onto the challenge motes where it makes sense.

And making Engi’s needed in raids!! Ultimate goal…..just sayin

Making a class “needed” i raids isnt the best way t go though have the aility to choose is better imho theres place for condi specs in the new wing, the last boss esp is very ranged condi friendly.There just need to be a better balance between the classes.

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Posted by: Blaeys.3102

Blaeys.3102

In the past year and a half, the overall skill level of the Guild Wars raiding community has risen at a staggering pace. Naturally, content will seem easier now as players continue to refine their theorycrafting and personal skill.

Our goal is not to make content easier, but rather add an additional layer of difficulty onto the challenge motes where it makes sense.

What grew at a “staggering pace” was everyone’s knowledge of and willingness to conform to metas that small groups min maxed the math on in the past year – to determine the absolute easiest way to complete.

What you are doing is alienating a large number of the type of players that bought the game to play alongside their friends – with builds and playstyles they actually consider fun. It is detrimental to the larger community in the game – and showing very clearly that the Anet developing the game now is not the same as the Anet that developed what was the best MMO on the market 4.5 years ago.

I realize I’m one of the more vocal people regarding this topic, but it is because I sincerely believe it is bad for the game – and I still REALLY want this game – and my guild here – to remain fun for years to come. I really hate the idea of looking for a new game.

(edited by Blaeys.3102)

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Posted by: Sykper.6583

Sykper.6583

In the past year and a half, the overall skill level of the Guild Wars raiding community has risen at a staggering pace. Naturally, content will seem easier now as players continue to refine their theorycrafting and personal skill.

Our goal is not to make content easier, but rather add an additional layer of difficulty onto the challenge motes where it makes sense.

Just a question Crystal, I know you answered this on Reddit concerning how the Challenge Motes in this iteration were improving on mechanics or introducing new ones to the fold. But was there a real reason why there couldn’t have been a repeatable reward, even something small like a few extra gold, tied to a weekly clear with a challenge mote?

It seems like a waste that, although you did apply some unique one-time only rewards and titles to the achievements, that those victorious in the hard-modes won’t have any reason other than self-gratification for things like speed-running to repeat those hard modes again.

If it’s a tech-issue, I believe I could understand. But it almost feels like a waste to introduce new things that won’t have a repeated lifespan in this regard.

Suicidal Warrior.
Putting Perspective on Zerg Sizes since 2012. Common Suffixes for 40+ include ~Zilla and ~Train
“Seriously, just dodge.”

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Posted by: zealex.9410

zealex.9410

In the past year and a half, the overall skill level of the Guild Wars raiding community has risen at a staggering pace. Naturally, content will seem easier now as players continue to refine their theorycrafting and personal skill.

Our goal is not to make content easier, but rather add an additional layer of difficulty onto the challenge motes where it makes sense.

What grew at a “staggering pace” was everyone’s knowledge of and willingness to conform to metas that small groups min maxed the math on in the past year – to determine the absolute easiest way to complete.

What you are doing is alienating a large number of the type of players that bought the game to play alongside their friends – with builds and playstyles they actually consider fun. It is detrimental to the larger community in the game – and showing very clearly that the Anet developing the game now is not the same as the Anet that developed what was the best MMO on the market 4.5 years ago.

I realize I’m one of the more vocal people regarding this topic, but it is because I sincerely believe it is bad for the game – and I still REALLY want this game – and my guild here – to remain fun for years to come. I really hate the idea of looking for a new game.

Not the case really you can run open world bosses and meta as well as dungeons with what ever build you consider fun and in a group of friends and guildies you can take that freedom into fractals aswell once you get the hang of mechanics etc.

Making content that requires you to improve not only your build but also your thinking process, your game knowledge and your overall experience on the game is not something that allienates the large number of players you are talking about, but you must also understand that in an mmo not all content is for everyone and that certain content requires you to think out your “safezone” or box for that matter.

Hell you can take your friends and your whacky buids in raids as long as the builds can sinergise and are well thought out. Meta builds are for those who go for the meta strats and use the meta comps its not mandatory to complete the content, its just happens to when you get it to work to be the most efficient.

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Posted by: TexZero.7910

TexZero.7910

I think the scaling is fine in BoTP save for some oddly forced niche’s.

It’s a nice attempt at stirring the meta pot, but almost too heavy handed in approach.

The bosses going in a linear difficulty curve from easy to hard is good for the players, however where this wing gets it wrong is the near forcing of condition damage builds. VG had this but it never felt a burden to the players. Samarog has this but the burden just feels forced and bad. I understand wanting some element of damage diveristy but how about opening up the field to more by allowing the Jotun to take physical damage (even if reduced or immune to crits) while the Human is incapacitated ?

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Posted by: maddoctor.2738

maddoctor.2738

Sure theres the CM but if that doesnt have replayability value more seasoned raiders are left with easier encounters. It makes me wonder if a system like the cm 100 would work but with the rewards being weekly.

Someone who beat the bosses can confirm if the challenge motes of the new Raid are repeatable or not?

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Posted by: zealex.9410

zealex.9410

Sure theres the CM but if that doesnt have replayability value more seasoned raiders are left with easier encounters. It makes me wonder if a system like the cm 100 would work but with the rewards being weekly.

Someone who beat the bosses can confirm if the challenge motes of the new Raid are repeatable or not?

from what i know it was confirmed in the AmA.

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Posted by: Miellyn.6847

Miellyn.6847

I think the scaling is fine in BoTP save for some oddly forced niche’s.

It’s a nice attempt at stirring the meta pot, but almost too heavy handed in approach.

The bosses going in a linear difficulty curve from easy to hard is good for the players, however where this wing gets it wrong is the near forcing of condition damage builds. VG had this but it never felt a burden to the players. Samarog has this but the burden just feels forced and bad. I understand wanting some element of damage diveristy but how about opening up the field to more by allowing the Jotun to take physical damage (even if reduced or immune to crits) while the Human is incapacitated ?

As you only have a small time window to damage the Jotun, direct damage offers more burst so condition damage will vanish quickly if you allow it.

What grew at a “staggering pace” was everyone’s knowledge of and willingness to conform to metas that small groups min maxed the math on in the past year – to determine the absolute easiest way to complete.

What you are doing is alienating a large number of the type of players that bought the game to play alongside their friends – with builds and playstyles they actually consider fun. It is detrimental to the larger community in the game – and showing very clearly that the Anet developing the game now is not the same as the Anet that developed what was the best MMO on the market 4.5 years ago.

I realize I’m one of the more vocal people regarding this topic, but it is because I sincerely believe it is bad for the game – and I still REALLY want this game – and my guild here – to remain fun for years to come. I really hate the idea of looking for a new game.

There was always content that was intended for better players, first there were explorable dungeons, which didn’t met the expectations. Than there were fractals and now there are raids.
ArenaNet never changed.
What about FoW, UW, DoA, the Deep, Urgoz’s Warren and Slaver’s Exile in Guild Wars 1? Nobody complained about them and some of them were harder to complete than raids.

The thing that actually changed in the last 8 years is the mindset of players, that they have to see everything.

Meena Wolfsgeist | Ranger
Ceana Mera | Mesmer
Indra Nebelklinge | Revenant

(edited by Miellyn.6847)

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Posted by: crosknight.3041

crosknight.3041

Most of the bosses main damage come from the mechanics and imo the first 2 are easy to figure out what to do, 3rd is bit annoying during it’s invuln phases and havent put many pulls i to the last boss yet (darn you RL and job)
So far chess boss is my fav of the new bosses mechanicly

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Posted by: Astralporing.1957

Astralporing.1957

In the past year and a half, the overall skill level of the Guild Wars raiding community has risen at a staggering pace. Naturally, content will seem easier now as players continue to refine their theorycrafting and personal skill.

Our goal is not to make content easier, but rather add an additional layer of difficulty onto the challenge motes where it makes sense.

Just a question Crystal, I know you answered this on Reddit concerning how the Challenge Motes in this iteration were improving on mechanics or introducing new ones to the fold. But was there a real reason why there couldn’t have been a repeatable reward, even something small like a few extra gold, tied to a weekly clear with a challenge mote?

It seems like a waste that, although you did apply some unique one-time only rewards and titles to the achievements, that those victorious in the hard-modes won’t have any reason other than self-gratification for things like speed-running to repeat those hard modes again.

If it’s a tech-issue, I believe I could understand. But it almost feels like a waste to introduce new things that won’t have a repeated lifespan in this regard.

Ironically, i actually very much agree with this. If there are, in essence, two different difficulty modes, then each of them should be rewarding enough to allow for repeatable experience.

Actions, not words.
Remember, remember, 15th of November

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Posted by: maddoctor.2738

maddoctor.2738

In the past year and a half, the overall skill level of the Guild Wars raiding community has risen at a staggering pace. Naturally, content will seem easier now as players continue to refine their theorycrafting and personal skill.

Our goal is not to make content easier, but rather add an additional layer of difficulty onto the challenge motes where it makes sense.

Just a question Crystal, I know you answered this on Reddit concerning how the Challenge Motes in this iteration were improving on mechanics or introducing new ones to the fold. But was there a real reason why there couldn’t have been a repeatable reward, even something small like a few extra gold, tied to a weekly clear with a challenge mote?

It seems like a waste that, although you did apply some unique one-time only rewards and titles to the achievements, that those victorious in the hard-modes won’t have any reason other than self-gratification for things like speed-running to repeat those hard modes again.

If it’s a tech-issue, I believe I could understand. But it almost feels like a waste to introduce new things that won’t have a repeated lifespan in this regard.

It’s the same with achievements of the first Raid, especially the unique ones, like Sabetha’s “Last Cannon” or the environmentally friendly achievement of Bandit Trio and so on. As time passes, it will be harder and harder to find groups to complete those achievements, which is a shame really.

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Posted by: Blaeys.3102

Blaeys.3102

The thing that actually changed in the last 8 years is the mindset of players, that they have to see everything.

I’m not sure that people wanting to experience interesting content with friends – in a way that they find fun and that fits with their playstyle – is new to the game.

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Posted by: Astralporing.1957

Astralporing.1957

The thing that actually changed in the last 8 years is the mindset of players, that they have to see everything.

No, the thing that have changed is for the majority of players to realize that they, too, have a voice and don’t have to keep silent while the “real players” are talking.

And if you think nobody complained about elite dungeons in GW1, you haven’t been paying attention. Why do you think environmental effects in DoA normal mode got disabled, for example?

Actions, not words.
Remember, remember, 15th of November

(edited by Astralporing.1957)

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Posted by: Miellyn.6847

Miellyn.6847

The thing that actually changed in the last 8 years is the mindset of players, that they have to see everything.

I’m not sure that people wanting to experience interesting content with friends – in a way that they find fun and that fits with their playstyle – is new to the game.

Yes thats why ArenaNet creates different content for different playstyles. Unlike WoW where everyone gets the same content and difficulties are necessery.

Meena Wolfsgeist | Ranger
Ceana Mera | Mesmer
Indra Nebelklinge | Revenant

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Posted by: Blaeys.3102

Blaeys.3102

The thing that actually changed in the last 8 years is the mindset of players, that they have to see everything.

I’m not sure that people wanting to experience interesting content with friends – in a way that they find fun and that fits with their playstyle – is new to the game.

Yes thats why ArenaNet creates different content for different playstyles. Unlike WoW where everyone gets the same content and difficulties are necessery.

They are actually needed here more than they are in WoW, where gear and level treadmills (which will hopefully never show up in GW2) solve the accessibility issue across the board.

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Posted by: Miellyn.6847

Miellyn.6847

The thing that actually changed in the last 8 years is the mindset of players, that they have to see everything.

I’m not sure that people wanting to experience interesting content with friends – in a way that they find fun and that fits with their playstyle – is new to the game.

Yes thats why ArenaNet creates different content for different playstyles. Unlike WoW where everyone gets the same content and difficulties are necessery.

They are actually needed here more than they are in WoW, where gear and level treadmills (which will hopefully never show up in GW2) solve the accessibility issue across the board.

Atleast Wing 1 and 2 have been completed within the enrage timers. So you are already overgeared if you wear ascended. There are no accessibility issues. Or do we need an minimum equipment to enter raids now as you need in WoW and restrict people from seeing the content at all if you don’t want to gather equipment?

Meena Wolfsgeist | Ranger
Ceana Mera | Mesmer
Indra Nebelklinge | Revenant

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Posted by: Blaeys.3102

Blaeys.3102

The thing that actually changed in the last 8 years is the mindset of players, that they have to see everything.

I’m not sure that people wanting to experience interesting content with friends – in a way that they find fun and that fits with their playstyle – is new to the game.

Yes thats why ArenaNet creates different content for different playstyles. Unlike WoW where everyone gets the same content and difficulties are necessery.

They are actually needed here more than they are in WoW, where gear and level treadmills (which will hopefully never show up in GW2) solve the accessibility issue across the board.

Atleast Wing 1 and 2 have been completed within the enrage timers. So you are already overgeared if you wear ascended. There are no accessibility issues. Or do we need an mindest equip-level to enter raids now as you need in WoW and restrict people from seeing the content?

There are definitely accessibility issues and ignoring them is not healthy for the game or the raid game mode.

The bigger issues center around the disparity between the accepted min/maxed comps and builds, but it extends to playstyle and the gear grind issues.

A simple story or training mode mote similar to the challenge motes currently implemented would address these issues nicely – as well as open up raids as a potential storytelling tool that can be integrated into the rest of the game. To not do so at this point is either one of three things on the part of the raid developers – apathy (which I have a hard time believing), shortsightedness (only seeing as far as the raid fanboys and ignoring the bigger issues) or a simple lack of leadership/direction.

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Posted by: OnizukaBR.8537

OnizukaBR.8537

The thing that actually changed in the last 8 years is the mindset of players, that they have to see everything.

I’m not sure that people wanting to experience interesting content with friends – in a way that they find fun and that fits with their playstyle – is new to the game.

Yes thats why ArenaNet creates different content for different playstyles. Unlike WoW where everyone gets the same content and difficulties are necessery.

They are actually needed here more than they are in WoW, where gear and level treadmills (which will hopefully never show up in GW2) solve the accessibility issue across the board.

Atleast Wing 1 and 2 have been completed within the enrage timers. So you are already overgeared if you wear ascended. There are no accessibility issues. Or do we need an mindest equip-level to enter raids now as you need in WoW and restrict people from seeing the content?

There are definitely accessibility issues and ignoring them is not healthy for the game or the raid game mode.

The bigger issues center around the disparity between the accepted min/maxed comps and builds, but it extends to playstyle and the gear grind issues.

A simple story or training mode mote similar to the challenge motes currently implemented would address these issues nicely – as well as open up raids as a potential storytelling tool that can be integrated into the rest of the game. To not do so at this point is either one of three things on the part of the raid developers – apathy (which I have a hard time believing), shortsightedness (only seeing as far as the raid fanboys and ignoring the bigger issues) or a simple lack of leadership/direction.

There is already a training mode for basically every boss. They are easy when they are full life, and the fight start to become more difficult as you kill the boss.
VG for example first phase is really easy, second phase is more difficulty with 1 ground doing damage, and third phase is harder with two grounds doing damage. So you train the first phase then you get better and go to second phase and so on…
If they want a difficulty encounter all phases would have the same mechanic of the third one.
Mathias for example, when he get low he become the abomination and do a lot more damage and more mechanics. Trio, first boss is just a tank spank, second do a little damage, and the third one actually can kill you. Slothasor as the time passes the slubs become stronger.
So all bosses are really easy at the begining this is how you have your traning mode. If want something easier than this trainings, then you dont want training at all, because doing no damage or removing mechanic is not a training ( how can you train something by not seeing it???? Magic? )

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Posted by: Oldirtbeard.9834

Oldirtbeard.9834

In the past year and a half, the overall skill level of the Guild Wars raiding community has risen at a staggering pace. Naturally, content will seem easier now as players continue to refine their theorycrafting and personal skill.

Our goal is not to make content easier, but rather add an additional layer of difficulty onto the challenge motes where it makes sense.

Thanks for giving the filthy casuals a bone, not like we spend lots of money on frivolous cosmetics or anything, or used to spend money I should say.

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Posted by: OriOri.8724

OriOri.8724

In the past year and a half, the overall skill level of the Guild Wars raiding community has risen at a staggering pace. Naturally, content will seem easier now as players continue to refine their theorycrafting and personal skill.

Our goal is not to make content easier, but rather add an additional layer of difficulty onto the challenge motes where it makes sense.

Thanks for giving the filthy casuals a bone, not like we spend lots of money on frivolous cosmetics or anything, or used to spend money I should say.

Oh calm down already will you.

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Posted by: Miellyn.6847

Miellyn.6847

The thing that actually changed in the last 8 years is the mindset of players, that they have to see everything.

I’m not sure that people wanting to experience interesting content with friends – in a way that they find fun and that fits with their playstyle – is new to the game.

Yes thats why ArenaNet creates different content for different playstyles. Unlike WoW where everyone gets the same content and difficulties are necessery.

They are actually needed here more than they are in WoW, where gear and level treadmills (which will hopefully never show up in GW2) solve the accessibility issue across the board.

Atleast Wing 1 and 2 have been completed within the enrage timers. So you are already overgeared if you wear ascended. There are no accessibility issues. Or do we need an mindest equip-level to enter raids now as you need in WoW and restrict people from seeing the content?

There are definitely accessibility issues and ignoring them is not healthy for the game or the raid game mode.

The bigger issues center around the disparity between the accepted min/maxed comps and builds, but it extends to playstyle and the gear grind issues.

A simple story or training mode mote similar to the challenge motes currently implemented would address these issues nicely – as well as open up raids as a potential storytelling tool that can be integrated into the rest of the game. To not do so at this point is either one of three things on the part of the raid developers – apathy (which I have a hard time believing), shortsightedness (only seeing as far as the raid fanboys and ignoring the bigger issues) or a simple lack of leadership/direction.

The only barriers are reaching lvl 80 and finding like-minded people. There are no accessibility problems. There are many teaching guilds out there, that bring new people into the content.

Changing the stat scaling will just destroy PvP. There is no gear grind, accessoires have many sources in fractals, the new maps, laurels and guild commendations. You can change stats on armor and weapons and it is accoundbound. Many builds use the same stats/runes.
There is no minimum equipment-level like WoW that restricts you from entering.

The story is supposed to be playable solo, that’s the reason arah story mode got changed from a 5-man dungeon to a solo dungeon.
If raids become a major storytelling tool you focus more on raids, something most casuals actually don’t want and we would atleast need three modes. Solo, easy, normal.

The motes only add 1-2 mechanics. There is no health/damage/ability scaling that you would want in an easy mode. They are not in any form comparable.

You say there are people that want to discover interesting content with their own playstyle and you want to force people into group content to experience the story.
There is no lack of direction, they know what they want. It just doesn’t align with your vision of raids and storytelling and your vision with major story parts in raids is just worse than the actual implementation.

Meena Wolfsgeist | Ranger
Ceana Mera | Mesmer
Indra Nebelklinge | Revenant

(edited by Miellyn.6847)

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Posted by: Cynz.9437

Cynz.9437

Killed 3 bosses so far. Yes, they are easier compared to bosses like Matt/Xera.

That being said there is a lot of RNG involved in those fights and probably bugs (e.g. ports spawning on top of green circles).
The more RNG is in the fight, the harder it becomes to manage. I personally found 1st boss the hardest simply due to so much RNG.
2nd is a cake if ppl pay attention and do their job.
3rd one is simple dps check.

Supposedly last boss is actually challenging, i have tried it once only so can’t say much.

I think generally i like where they went with this. You have motes for more challenge and normal mode for people who just want to do story/achieves.

All is Vain~
[Teef] guild :>

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Posted by: ButterPeanut.9746

ButterPeanut.9746

I understand groups have improved in the last year…But the 2nd boss is an absolute joke. I’d say easier than everything above fractal 25-50 scale.

I also understand the design of giving challenge motes….But for the love of God if you are making the regular modes insanely easy, there absolutely 100% without question MUST be incentive to repeat them every week. Gold, shards, unique drops, whatever.

If we can clear the boss in under 2 minutes on the 2nd day the boss is available, please make sure there are incentives to never do regular mode again

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Posted by: Oldirtbeard.9834

Oldirtbeard.9834

In the past year and a half, the overall skill level of the Guild Wars raiding community has risen at a staggering pace. Naturally, content will seem easier now as players continue to refine their theorycrafting and personal skill.

Our goal is not to make content easier, but rather add an additional layer of difficulty onto the challenge motes where it makes sense.

Thanks for giving the filthy casuals a bone, not like we spend lots of money on frivolous cosmetics or anything, or used to spend money I should say.

Oh calm down already will you.

I will not, roughly 5 years ago Ghostcrawler wrote a blog Heroics Are Hard on the WoW forums where he talked at us regarding their development philosophy regarding end game content, apparently we must have had an effect with Blizzard despite their dogma because by the end of that expansion cycle they introduced Looking For Raid or as ANet might call in Story Mode Raid ( you know once they come to their senses or NCSOFT throws a dictate at them after the next Quarterly Report).

The difficulty of the Bastion of the Penitent

in Fractals, Dungeons & Raids

Posted by: Miellyn.6847

Miellyn.6847

In the past year and a half, the overall skill level of the Guild Wars raiding community has risen at a staggering pace. Naturally, content will seem easier now as players continue to refine their theorycrafting and personal skill.

Our goal is not to make content easier, but rather add an additional layer of difficulty onto the challenge motes where it makes sense.

Thanks for giving the filthy casuals a bone, not like we spend lots of money on frivolous cosmetics or anything, or used to spend money I should say.

Oh calm down already will you.

I will not, roughly 5 years ago Ghostcrawler wrote a blog Heroics Are Hard on the WoW forums where he talked at us regarding their development philosophy regarding end game content, apparently we must have had an effect with Blizzard despite their dogma because by the end of that expansion cycle they introduced Looking For Raid or as ANet might call in Story Mode Raid ( you know once they come to their senses or NCSOFT throws a dictate at them after the next Quarterly Report).

Can we stop comparing WoW with GW2? Two completly different games.
WoW is raid centric, most of the content after expansion release are raids, story progresses through raids, gear threadmill.
The story of GW2 progresses through LS and raids give additional information at best.

Ghostcrawler also said LFR was his worst mistake during WoW.
The quarterly report has nothing to do with raids, the gemshop didn’t had many interesting items since months.

Meena Wolfsgeist | Ranger
Ceana Mera | Mesmer
Indra Nebelklinge | Revenant

The difficulty of the Bastion of the Penitent

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Posted by: Rednik.3809

Rednik.3809

Ghostcrawler also said LFR was his worst mistake during WoW.
The quarterly report has nothing to do with raids, the gemshop didn’t had many interesting items since months.

He forgot to mention that WoW already had 4 raid difficulties before LFR, and his real worst mistake was in total failure of balance system during MoP, which was so kitten up that they had to cut and remake almost everything in next expansion.

Kiijna, Xast, Satis Ironwail, Sekhaina, Shira Forgesparkle, Sfeno, Nasibi, Tegeira, Rhonwe…
25 charracters

The difficulty of the Bastion of the Penitent

in Fractals, Dungeons & Raids

Posted by: Miellyn.6847

Miellyn.6847

Ghostcrawler also said LFR was his worst mistake during WoW.
The quarterly report has nothing to do with raids, the gemshop didn’t had many interesting items since months.

He forgot to mention that WoW already had 4 raid difficulties before LFR, and his real worst mistake was in total failure of balance system during MoP, which was so kitten up that they had to cut and remake almost everything in next expansion.

No he didn’t forget that, none of those allowed you to ignore almost all mechanics and let you still win.

Meena Wolfsgeist | Ranger
Ceana Mera | Mesmer
Indra Nebelklinge | Revenant

(edited by Miellyn.6847)

The difficulty of the Bastion of the Penitent

in Fractals, Dungeons & Raids

Posted by: OneUP.3024

OneUP.3024

this complete wing is an absolute joke. Waited 6-7 months for a new raid and all we get is this. The bosses look cool but their mechanics are either copies from raid 1 mechanics or no mechanics at all. Also 2 Bosses with big hitbox and 2 bosses with medium hitbox. Why would anyone bring anything else but eles to this wing. This raid just shows how little anet understand about their own game and that kicking experienced raid guilds from testing wasn’t a good idea at all.

The only good things are no time gates, no events like escort or trio and the overall look of the wing. The 2nd and 3rd boss are looking sick.

Quantify [qT]

The difficulty of the Bastion of the Penitent

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Posted by: NikeEU.7690

NikeEU.7690

Since when did people being unwilling to adapt or learn become an accessibility issue? There is literally no barrier. No gear rating, no attunement challenges, no consumable grind. Any barriers you perceive are self imposed limitations.

[DnT]::Nike::
www.twitch.tv/nike_dnt

The difficulty of the Bastion of the Penitent

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Posted by: ButterPeanut.9746

ButterPeanut.9746

this complete wing is an absolute joke. Waited 6-7 months for a new raid and all we get is this. The bosses look cool but their mechanics are either copies from raid 1 mechanics or no mechanics at all. Also 2 Bosses with big hitbox and 2 bosses with medium hitbox. Why would anyone bring anything else but eles to this wing. This raid just shows how little anet understand about their own game and that kicking experienced raid guilds from testing wasn’t a good idea at all.

The only good things are no time gates, no events like escort or trio and the overall look of the wing. The 2nd and 3rd boss are looking sick.

100% agree 1up. The base difficultly of some of these bosses, in particular boss #2, is unacceptable. Killing in under 2min with 0 mechanics (literal DPS golem) on the 2nd day of release is NOT okay.

The only way this could be acceptable is if there was incentive to complete the challenge mote every single week…but there isn’t. Almost ever game mode (i.e. fractals, wvw, pvp, etc) have repeatable in game incentives for excelling at the content (i.e. challenge mote).

This boss might as well be escort or trio except it takes 2minutes. It is just as easy or even easier than escort.

(edited by ButterPeanut.9746)

The difficulty of the Bastion of the Penitent

in Fractals, Dungeons & Raids

Posted by: Rednik.3809

Rednik.3809

Since when did people being unwilling to adapt or learn become an accessibility issue? There is literally no barrier. No gear rating, no attunement challenges, no consumable grind. Any barriers you perceive are self imposed limitations.

Community is literally forced to create training raid runs to prevent game mode from dying out due to the lack of fresh blood, thing that is literally unheard of in other raiding games.
If this situation looks normal to you and not like complete failure from raid development team to tune raid accessibility, then I dunno in which kind of imaginary world you are living.

Kiijna, Xast, Satis Ironwail, Sekhaina, Shira Forgesparkle, Sfeno, Nasibi, Tegeira, Rhonwe…
25 charracters

The difficulty of the Bastion of the Penitent

in Fractals, Dungeons & Raids

Posted by: OriOri.8724

OriOri.8724

In the past year and a half, the overall skill level of the Guild Wars raiding community has risen at a staggering pace. Naturally, content will seem easier now as players continue to refine their theorycrafting and personal skill.

Our goal is not to make content easier, but rather add an additional layer of difficulty onto the challenge motes where it makes sense.

Thanks for giving the filthy casuals a bone, not like we spend lots of money on frivolous cosmetics or anything, or used to spend money I should say.

Oh calm down already will you.

I will not, roughly 5 years ago Ghostcrawler wrote a blog Heroics Are Hard on the WoW forums where he talked at us regarding their development philosophy regarding end game content, apparently we must have had an effect with Blizzard despite their dogma because by the end of that expansion cycle they introduced Looking For Raid or as ANet might call in Story Mode Raid ( you know once they come to their senses or NCSOFT throws a dictate at them after the next Quarterly Report).

WTF does WoW have to do with this? I’ll answer that for you. Nothing. WoW has nothing to do with this, nothing at all. Just grow up. If you want to do the raid then practice until you can or pay someone to carry you, but don’t just whine about it

The difficulty of the Bastion of the Penitent

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Posted by: Vinceman.4572

Vinceman.4572

Community is literally forced to create training raid runs to prevent game mode from dying out due to the lack of fresh blood, thing that is literally unheard of in other raiding games.

Sources? I mean really valid serious multiple ones?

Took me 3 runs of the dungeon to get the bug.

The difficulty of the Bastion of the Penitent

in Fractals, Dungeons & Raids

Posted by: Rednik.3809

Rednik.3809

Sources? I mean really valid serious multiple ones?

Sources – MMO world. Feel free to bring an example.

Kiijna, Xast, Satis Ironwail, Sekhaina, Shira Forgesparkle, Sfeno, Nasibi, Tegeira, Rhonwe…
25 charracters

The difficulty of the Bastion of the Penitent

in Fractals, Dungeons & Raids

Posted by: NikeEU.7690

NikeEU.7690

Since when did people being unwilling to adapt or learn become an accessibility issue? There is literally no barrier. No gear rating, no attunement challenges, no consumable grind. Any barriers you perceive are self imposed limitations.

Community is literally forced to create training raid runs to prevent game mode from dying out due to the lack of fresh blood, thing that is literally unheard of in other raiding games.
If this situation looks normal to you and not like complete failure from raid development team to tune raid accessibility, then I dunno in which kind of imaginary world you are living.

So your example of something bein inaccessible is the mechanism by which they are made even more accessible?

Logic checks out!

[DnT]::Nike::
www.twitch.tv/nike_dnt

The difficulty of the Bastion of the Penitent

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Posted by: Rashy.4165

Rashy.4165

Since when did people being unwilling to adapt or learn become an accessibility issue? There is literally no barrier. No gear rating, no attunement challenges, no consumable grind. Any barriers you perceive are self imposed limitations.

Community is literally forced to create training raid runs to prevent game mode from dying out due to the lack of fresh blood, thing that is literally unheard of in other raiding games.
If this situation looks normal to you and not like complete failure from raid development team to tune raid accessibility, then I dunno in which kind of imaginary world you are living.

Everyone in the raid community started at the same point. Some had a deep understanding of their class, others did not. Either way, knowledge of the encounters was minimal, optimal group compositions were unknown.

A new player wanting to get into raids can do just that: form their own group of inexperienced players and tackle the raids. These players are now at an advantage though, as all the theorycrafting has established optimal strategies and compositions, and there are plenty of video guides to get people started, practice, and get better. Of course, this experience can be punishing, especially when faced with 9 other players of different skill, and different willingness to improve, take initiative, etc.

Hence, training raids were born, where experienced raiders try to create a safer learning experience, with the goal that trainees, once they’re comfortable with mechanics, go out and find a static raid team.

The problem that many raid trainers encounter though: very few of the trainees actually go on to find or form static teams once they’ve gotten that experience, and continue to rely on training raids.

I started raiding last May. I whined a bit about accessibility then, but my experience, though daunting, had a positive end. I’m not a hardcore raider, but currently have 226 LI and am constantly seeking the next bar: what more can I do to improve?

The difficulty of the Bastion of the Penitent

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Posted by: Vinceman.4572

Vinceman.4572

Sources – MMO world. Feel free to bring an example.

Still looking for a source.
I don’t see a link, a statistic, valid comments of a significant or critical mass.

Took me 3 runs of the dungeon to get the bug.

The difficulty of the Bastion of the Penitent

in Fractals, Dungeons & Raids

Posted by: Rednik.3809

Rednik.3809

Everyone in the raid community started at the same point. Some had a deep understanding of their class, others did not. Either way, knowledge of the encounters was minimal, optimal group compositions were unknown.

A new player wanting to get into raids can do just that: form their own group of inexperienced players and tackle the raids. These players are now at an advantage though, as all the theorycrafting has established optimal strategies and compositions, and there are plenty of video guides to get people started, practice, and get better. Of course, this experience can be punishing, especially when faced with 9 other players of different skill, and different willingness to improve, take initiative, etc.

Hence, training raids were born, where experienced raiders try to create a safer learning experience, with the goal that trainees, once they’re comfortable with mechanics, go out and find a static raid team.

Except that in other games everything is already set up properly, so new players can start their raiding without relying heavily on community training runs. Like, you know, proper learning curve trough all encounters, after which player can actually handle normal raiding by himself, and because of that, raiding groups are asking only for basic experience (aka achievement) and decent gear.
Unlike gw2, where you are expected to have like a 50 various boss kills to qualify for a first raid boss, and 200+ for a last one. Oh, and 100+ for a boss in completely new raid wing, because we can.

Kiijna, Xast, Satis Ironwail, Sekhaina, Shira Forgesparkle, Sfeno, Nasibi, Tegeira, Rhonwe…
25 charracters

The difficulty of the Bastion of the Penitent

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Posted by: TexZero.7910

TexZero.7910

Everyone in the raid community started at the same point. Some had a deep understanding of their class, others did not. Either way, knowledge of the encounters was minimal, optimal group compositions were unknown.

A new player wanting to get into raids can do just that: form their own group of inexperienced players and tackle the raids. These players are now at an advantage though, as all the theorycrafting has established optimal strategies and compositions, and there are plenty of video guides to get people started, practice, and get better. Of course, this experience can be punishing, especially when faced with 9 other players of different skill, and different willingness to improve, take initiative, etc.

Hence, training raids were born, where experienced raiders try to create a safer learning experience, with the goal that trainees, once they’re comfortable with mechanics, go out and find a static raid team.

Except that in other games everything is already set up properly, so new players can start their raiding without relying heavily on community training runs. Like, you know, proper learning curve trough all encounters, after which player can actually handle normal raiding by himself, and because of that, raiding groups are asking only for basic experience (aka achievement) and decent gear.
Unlike gw2, where you are expected to have like a 50 various boss kills to qualify for a first raid boss, and 200+ for a last one. Oh, and 100+ for a boss in completely new raid wing, because we can.

No, you see you’re confusing two issues.

You too can raid with 0 LI’s. You just can’t join a group and expect for that group to carry you in a raid when they want people who’ve been there and done that.

Start creating your own group with your own restrictions or lack of and raid however the heck you want.

The difficulty of the Bastion of the Penitent

in Fractals, Dungeons & Raids

Posted by: Rednik.3809

Rednik.3809

No, you see you’re confusing two issues.

You too can raid with 0 LI’s. You just can’t join a group and expect for that group to carry you in a raid when they want people who’ve been there and done that.

Start creating your own group with your own restrictions or lack of and raid however the heck you want.

So your sentence is basically means that:
1. There is almost nonexistent number of groups without ridiculous LI requirements, so low that new players are forced to create a group by themselves, while being completely unexperienced, because there is a NO other valid choice.
2. Because of 1, community is making a training raids. Just because, you know, new player will likely say “kitten this” and leave instead of trying to smash his head against a wall for hours without a meaningful result, and without new players raiding community will die.
3. For some mysterious, and probably even magical reason, raid developers are still thinking that this situation is normal and somehow there will be a lot (hundreds? thousands?) of new raiders who is stubborn enough to farm 50+ LI in training runs and selfmade groups with zero raiding experience. Such a bright future indeed.

Kiijna, Xast, Satis Ironwail, Sekhaina, Shira Forgesparkle, Sfeno, Nasibi, Tegeira, Rhonwe…
25 charracters