‘would have/would’ve been’ —> correct
‘would of been’ —> wrong
‘would of been’ —> wrong
"The intention is to deincentivize dungeons"
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It’s been their modus operandi since the game’s release, nerfing any gold farm or quick wealth generation scheme to keep scarcity high.
Except when they did introduce the Gold Reward for Dungeons and the Champ Bags which also grant you small Amount of Money
And despite their claims that they nerfed gold income to stop inflation, nothing could be further from the truth. They kept nerfing gold farms and introducing more goldsinks in the form of ascended armor and yet precursor and legendary prices have only kept increasing over the years.
In Fact most Pres and Legends are stable in Pricing, being most expensive last Year and now many are slowly getting cheaper.
Also Anet removed a Gold Sink a while ago. You don’t need to pay anymore to repair your Armor.
(edited by Walhalla.5473)
I have got to give this guy some credit.
However you may feel about the change itself, this is actually pretty solid community interaction.But it’s not a solid answer. The question is WHY do this? If Dungeons were infact, very popular, why try to force players to other parts of the game? Whn not actually put resources into new dungeons. So much for “play your way”.
The “community interaction” you speak of is basically:
We are doing this, just cos…..
BINGO! And if the dev, John Smith was smart enough he would have explained why.
But he said why. Maybe not clearly enough but he said it. They are balancing the player’s gold income so that dungeon ain’t anymore the best place to make gold. Just one place out of all the possible place.
Which probably mean that you will be able to do as much gold out of a fractal than you will do out of a dungeon.
They are only trying to spread player into the whole game instead of concentrating them in one place : the dungeons.
As someone that have been bored by dungeon and fractal since more than a year, I don’t welcome this solution, but I feel it’s a fair solution. It was way to easy to make gold out of the dungeons.
No core profession should be balanced around an optional elite specialization.
I have got to give this guy some credit.
However you may feel about the change itself, this is actually pretty solid community interaction.But it’s not a solid answer. The question is WHY do this? If Dungeons were infact, very popular, why try to force players to other parts of the game? Whn not actually put resources into new dungeons. So much for “play your way”.
The “community interaction” you speak of is basically:
We are doing this, just cos…..
The answer to the why question might be this.
Anet is trying to keep a balanced economy – which means you have to balance the gold in with the gold out. Currently we have a good amount of sinks in the game that balance gold generation – and let’s remember that dungeons do generate gold out of thin air – at the end of a run gold that previously did not exist is generated into the game .
With HoT they plan to add new activities to develop such as Raids and HoT – and in order for them to be well received they must come with good monetary rewards – so you have to attach some gold generation to them as well.
The problem with this is that you’re adding in more things that generate gold but not a lot of things that take it out. If you did add more sinks you could possibly end up interfering and “overtaxing” (through the sinks) with players that don’t really generate gold because they don’t do that sort of content – so they went the opposite way – they decided to reduce part of the gold generation from the old content in order to make room for newer content to be the main gold generator.
This is both to incentivize people to switch over to the new content ( which they want to grow and develop) but also to maintain a balanced economy.
This is how I think they thought things through ( if they did) – there’s always the case they just have no idea what’s going on or have just thought of a bad idea – it wouldn’t be the first time.
I don’t necessarily agree with this – but I can see why they would do it if indeed my above logic is similar to theirs.
If here they fall they shall live on when ever you cry “For Ascalon!”
I have got to give this guy some credit.
He’s got a clear idea of what he’s after.
He announced it, immediately followed it up with a Q&A, and has so far answered questions in a straightforward way. However you may feel about the change itself, this is actually pretty solid community interaction.
Totally agreed with this. As sad as I am to see the plug being pulled on dungeon incentives, I’m really impressed to see this level of communication from this dev.
I’ve read his reports and I’m still sitting here scratching my head. All he’s really done is confirmed that they’re doing this because they want to disincentivize dungeons, which I think we all figured out already, the question is why?
cuz fractals will be exactly what dungeon paths are… a single, shortish, instanced, 5 man thing. but fractals will offer ascended. fractals are better designed, in that you dont skip half the content they put in because they didnt put in a bunch of cutscenes and pointless trash everywhere. where does that leave dungeons? fractals will replace them whether they nerf dungeon gold or not, theyre just making sure they nail the coffin shut.
JQ: Rikkity
head here to discuss wvw without fear of infractions
head here to discuss wvw without fear of infractions
Imho disincentivize means less appealing while still being appealing, the other means to be not appealing at all. And I am pretty sure John Smith means the former one.
Part of the purpose is to incentivize people to participate more in the content we support, which at the moment is fractals. – JohnSmith (https://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/3ogusa/the_guild_wars_2_heart_of_thorns_economy/cvxdpi6)
Imho disincentivize means less appealing while still being appealing, the other means to be not appealing at all. And I am pretty sure John Smith means the former one.
Part of the purpose is to incentivize people to participate more in the content we support, which at the moment is fractals. – JohnSmith (https://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/3ogusa/the_guild_wars_2_heart_of_thorns_economy/cvxdpi6)
But loooots of people already do. Everyone i know who runs fractals also runs dungeons.
kitten the gold talking in all the threads i’ve seen so far, where the fixes, wheres the initiative they give a kitten about the kittening dungeons, wheres the fixes to the ONE SHOT Lupicus ? Anyone? Not giving a flying kitten about what happens to the dungeons, if you truly were dungeon addicts and enjoyed dungeons then we wouldn’t be talking about the kittening gold reward.
I have got to give this guy some credit.
However you may feel about the change itself, this is actually pretty solid community interaction.But it’s not a solid answer. The question is WHY do this? If Dungeons were infact, very popular, why try to force players to other parts of the game? Whn not actually put resources into new dungeons. So much for “play your way”.
The “community interaction” you speak of is basically:
We are doing this, just cos…..
The answer to the why question might be this.
Anet is trying to keep a balanced economy – which means you have to balance the gold in with the gold out. Currently we have a good amount of sinks in the game that balance gold generation – and let’s remember that dungeons do generate gold out of thin air – at the end of a run gold that previously did not exist is generated into the game .
With HoT they plan to add new activities to develop such as Raids and HoT – and in order for them to be well received they must come with good monetary rewards – so you have to attach some gold generation to them as well.
The problem with this is that you’re adding in more things that generate gold but not a lot of things that take it out. If you did add more sinks you could possibly end up interfering and “overtaxing” (through the sinks) with players that don’t really generate gold because they don’t do that sort of content – so they went the opposite way – they decided to reduce part of the gold generation from the old content in order to make room for newer content to be the main gold generator.
This is both to incentivize people to switch over to the new content ( which they want to grow and develop) but also to maintain a balanced economy.
This is how I think they thought things through ( if they did) – there’s always the case they just have no idea what’s going on or have just thought of a bad idea – it wouldn’t be the first time.
I don’t necessarily agree with this – but I can see why they would do it if indeed my above logic is similar to theirs.
having multiple sources of income is not really relevant, because people can only do one thing.
If task A = 10 dollars an hour
task B = 10 dollars an hour
and they both= the same thing. I asked specifically in the next question if the goal was to remove liquid generation from the game, to which he said not really. The for the most part want to put it elsewhere.
I suppose the difference could be they want to have something else give 40 gold a day for an hours work, and are afraid of someone doing both, but not sure why they d do that.
regardless the point is to disincentivize dungeons, because if it wasnt they could offer other non liquid rewards to dungeons, but he made it clear, they dont want to do that. The goal is to take dungeons out of focus for normal consistent play. Thats the most important trait of the change.
Imho disincentivize means less appealing while still being appealing, the other means to be not appealing at all. And I am pretty sure John Smith means the former one.
Part of the purpose is to incentivize people to participate more in the content we support, which at the moment is fractals. – JohnSmith (https://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/3ogusa/the_guild_wars_2_heart_of_thorns_economy/cvxdpi6)
But loooots of people already do. Everyone i know who runs fractals also runs dungeons.
True – but I’ll reckon only a small fraction of those who run dungeons also run fractals.
If here they fall they shall live on when ever you cry “For Ascalon!”
I have got to give this guy some credit.
However you may feel about the change itself, this is actually pretty solid community interaction.But it’s not a solid answer. The question is WHY do this? If Dungeons were infact, very popular, why try to force players to other parts of the game? Whn not actually put resources into new dungeons. So much for “play your way”.
The “community interaction” you speak of is basically:
We are doing this, just cos…..
The answer to the why question might be this.
Anet is trying to keep a balanced economy – which means you have to balance the gold in with the gold out. Currently we have a good amount of sinks in the game that balance gold generation – and let’s remember that dungeons do generate gold out of thin air – at the end of a run gold that previously did not exist is generated into the game .
With HoT they plan to add new activities to develop such as Raids and HoT – and in order for them to be well received they must come with good monetary rewards – so you have to attach some gold generation to them as well.
The problem with this is that you’re adding in more things that generate gold but not a lot of things that take it out. If you did add more sinks you could possibly end up interfering and “overtaxing” (through the sinks) with players that don’t really generate gold because they don’t do that sort of content – so they went the opposite way – they decided to reduce part of the gold generation from the old content in order to make room for newer content to be the main gold generator.
This is both to incentivize people to switch over to the new content ( which they want to grow and develop) but also to maintain a balanced economy.
This is how I think they thought things through ( if they did) – there’s always the case they just have no idea what’s going on or have just thought of a bad idea – it wouldn’t be the first time.
I don’t necessarily agree with this – but I can see why they would do it if indeed my above logic is similar to theirs.
having multiple sources of income is not really relevant, because people can only do one thing.
If task A = 10 dollars an hour
task B = 10 dollars an hour
and they both= the same thing. I asked specifically in the next question if the goal was to remove liquid generation from the game, to which he said not really. The for the most part want to put it elsewhere.
I suppose the difference could be they want to have something else give 40 gold a day for an hours work, and are afraid of someone doing both, but not sure why they d do that.regardless the point is to disincentivize dungeons, because if it wasnt they could offer other non liquid rewards to dungeons, but he made it clear, they dont want to do that. The goal is to take dungeons out of focus for normal consistent play. Thats the most important trait of the change.
There will always be those that will farm all of the stuff that gives good gold – although I doubt they’d be very many. I can understand your points – I just thought that particular hypothesis up – doesn’t have to be right.
Perhaps they are scared of people farming too much? Remember the reward for dungeons is daily – why do you think that is? So that eventually once you do them all you can’t do them all again.
I suppose what they’re also trying to do in part is eliminate a situation in which you have enough content that’s highly farmable (generates a lot of gold) and you can just keep on farming non-stop, all day all the way.
If the new fractals will be more rewarding financially I suppose they didn’t want people farming those and then farming dungeons on top of that – because of multiple reasons:
1. People farming gold ( eg doing content that generates gold) is bad for the game and bad for their business ( eg selling gems).
2.People farming endlessly is bad for player retention since these people will burn out.
Ultimately it doesn’t matter – you said it and you said it right – they’re slowly pulling the plug on dungeons – I wouldn’t be surprised if they were eliminated from the game completely in 1-2 years.
If here they fall they shall live on when ever you cry “For Ascalon!”
I have got to give this guy some credit.
He’s got a clear idea of what he’s after.
He announced it, immediately followed it up with a Q&A, and has so far answered questions in a straightforward way. However you may feel about the change itself, this is actually pretty solid community interaction.It doesn’t matter what he says. They made a decision, they didn’t consult the community. They decided on this course and committed to it. Is it supposed to make it better than he answered questions about it?
At least it proves they can be honest. I don’t think they ever cared what the community thought – sure they listen and take hints – but ultimately they’ll still do whatever they please.
Plus – 3/4 times the community has terrible ideas and wants things that would destroy the game far worse than the devs would be able to.
If here they fall they shall live on when ever you cry “For Ascalon!”
Imho disincentivize means less appealing while still being appealing, the other means to be not appealing at all. And I am pretty sure John Smith means the former one.
Part of the purpose is to incentivize people to participate more in the content we support, which at the moment is fractals. – JohnSmith (https://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/3ogusa/the_guild_wars_2_heart_of_thorns_economy/cvxdpi6)
But loooots of people already do. Everyone i know who runs fractals also runs dungeons.
True – but I’ll reckon only a small fraction of those who run dungeons also run fractals.
Yes, you are right less people run fractals who run dungeons. But, do you think that extra gold is the right way to get more people into fractals when you can get so many other things more valuable than gold like ascended weapon/armor boxes. If they didn’t run fractals for the chance of getting unique skins and ascended boxes, I doubt most of them would do it for the 1 extra gold u’ll get for completing them now.
Imho disincentivize means less appealing while still being appealing, the other means to be not appealing at all. And I am pretty sure John Smith means the former one.
Part of the purpose is to incentivize people to participate more in the content we support, which at the moment is fractals. – JohnSmith (https://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/3ogusa/the_guild_wars_2_heart_of_thorns_economy/cvxdpi6)
But loooots of people already do. Everyone i know who runs fractals also runs dungeons.
True – but I’ll reckon only a small fraction of those who run dungeons also run fractals.
Yes, you are right less people run fractals who run dungeons. But, do you think that extra gold is the right way to get more people into fractals when you can get so many other things more valuable than gold like ascended weapon/armor boxes. If they didn’t run fractals for the chance of getting unique skins and ascended boxes, I doubt most of them would do it for the 1 extra gold u’ll get for completing them now.
Nothing that you can’t sell is more valuable than gold – really – because while ascended looks great on paper some people already have all the sets they’re going to need.
Gold is good because it is a universal resource – what that means is that you can turn it into anything in this game – from a new skin, to a new dye, to a food buff for WvW, to a nice gift for someone via buying gems or maybe a new legendary? All that can be done with gold.
Well – most people farmed dungeons – and when they’re gone farming fractals might be the next thing – fractal skins and gimmicks aren’t everybody’s cup of tea – but that doesn’t mean you can’t have more people playing if you amp up the rewards.
If here they fall they shall live on when ever you cry “For Ascalon!”
This is nonsense.
They aren’t leaving dungeons alone, the issue is they are doing the opposite. It requires resources to change dungeon reward incentives, it costs nothing to leave them as is.
Did you even read the blog post? Do you understand what people are talking about? This has nothing to do with ArenaNet’s resources.
Lol, did you read the blog post? Obviously not, because if you had then you wouldn’t be making these statements.
Also, yes i possess basic reading comprehension skills and know exactly what people are talking about. This entire conversation has NOTHING to do with the dungeon content. The dungeons are not going away, they are simply not being actively developed at this time in lieu of development in other areas of the game. This conversation is about the changes to rewards.
Do you understand the basic ideas of resource management and active development? Adjusting rewards is a one time change. Actively supporting, developing and promoting content is a different thing entirely.
Le sigh, i was going to rant further but then i re-read your response and decided to just stop here. Your 5 sentences manage to convey such an immense and complete lack of understanding, compounded with a deep sense of self entitlement. I just can’t…
It’s been their modus operandi since the game’s release, nerfing any gold farm or quick wealth generation scheme to keep scarcity high.
Except when they did introduce the Gold Reward for Dungeons and the Champ Bags which also grant you small Amount of Money
They didn’t introduce gold rewards for dungeons, it was always there. People could farm dungeons all day for the rewards.
What they did is nerf that farming, and give you a static amount on a daily lockout.
Champ bags in dungeons are virtually worthless considering the amount of champions relative to open world farm.
It’s been their modus operandi since the game’s release, nerfing any gold farm or quick wealth generation scheme to keep scarcity high.
Except when they did introduce the Gold Reward for Dungeons and the Champ Bags which also grant you small Amount of Money
They didn’t introduce gold rewards for dungeons, it was always there. People could farm dungeons all day for the rewards.
What they did is nerf that farming, and give you a static amount on a daily lockout.
Champ bags in dungeons are virtually worthless considering the amount of champions relative to open world farm.
SE1 isn’t horrible. But compared to chest farming… yay run around in circles and earn the most money outside playing the TP. Such a great game…
Anyway, the grudge is softened by the fact we soon get raids.
Yes, I agree, adding content explicitly not intended for most players to complete definitely makes up for gutting an accessible form of group content.
Wait, no it doesn’t.
They want to incentive people to do fractals instead of dungeons? Great, fine, that in itself is good. But that’s a false equivalence because while there are 20 something explorable dungeon paths, there will be three fractal SHARD dailies. So your daily instanced content experience post-HoT will consist of what is currently less than a single fractal run. After that, what? Raids? That’s gated to once a week.
Unless you’re selling high-level fractals or raids (assuming its possible) the only thing left to do that’s profitable is open world zerg. And realistically, that’s where they want and expect dungeon runners to go. They keep saying “fractal/raids” because that’s what we like to hear but three fractal shards a day and one raid a week is not going to keep people occupied.
guildless hobo who likes to solo – [x]
They want to incentive people to do fractals instead of dungeons? Great, fine, that in itself is good. But that’s a false equivalence because while there are 20 something explorable dungeon paths, there will be three fractal SHARD dailies. So your daily instanced content experience post-HoT will consist of what is currently less than a single fractal run. After that, what? Raids? That’s gated to once a week.
Unless you’re selling high-level fractals or raids (assuming its possible) the only thing left to do that’s profitable is open world zerg. And realistically, that’s where they want and expect dungeon runners to go. They keep saying “fractal/raids” because that’s what we like to hear but three fractal shards a day and one raid a week is not going to keep people occupied.
Also, don’t forget that there’s only going to be one single raid for the forseeable future. And they aren’t even able to get that out in time for HoT’s launch. To think playtime is just going to shift from dungeons to fractals and raids is ridiculous.
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