Guild Wars 2

in response to another thread i thought i would bring this here. dont know why. just thought it would be something to think about or perhaps understand.
******

I am the eternal PuGer
My typical time to play is between midnight and 6 am NA, ( i am a Chef as my screen name implies so my hours are all sorts of not normal.)
I will be completely honest.
IN my 2 years of PuGing.
with the exception of the occasional run with dungeon forum regulars. (which number of runs i can count on 2 hands)

I have never seen 25 stacks of might.
I have never seen a 5 person DpS group.
I have never seen a Sword, Warhorn/axe Ranger.
I have never seen a dagger Necromancer.
I have to be the Gaurdian in Fractals because wall of reflection and hammer is not what being a guardian is about… 0.o
Kohler is skipped 19 out of 20 times..
Lupi is either rage quit or ranged. Melee involves at least 5 wipes. (as i am not quite good enough to solo him… YET)
i am sure i could think of more if i really thought about it.
…. ((sobs))

So,
For all of you that are “good” I want to personally say KEEP BEING AWESOME! yes that involves You Colsey, Swifty, Brazil, Nike, Rising Dusk, Sanderinoa, Random fight fan, Nevets Crimsonwing, FriFox, Lillith, Spoj, Dub, Card, Domz, Dekeys, Purple Miku, Sam, Jarem, Ivan the Grey, DnT, Snow Crows, Retaliate, Ren, King, Club, …….

and so many others that i am forgetting.

Keep doing what you are doing, and if nothing, realize there is at least one person out there that is eating it all up and trying to learn as best he can from what information is available. You are constant inspiration to at least me. and in turn i take what you all teach and try my very best to pass it along to the people that i come into contact with.

For all of you that want to come into the Dungeon Forums and complain.. you can Bugger right off. Instead of complaining, why don’t you be constructive and actually ask questions on how you can complete the content. Instead of trying to change the game.

((shrug))
I really don’t know where that all came from. But I had to take almost 2 weeks off from the game because I could not stand the constant crying.
Keep kicking tail gang yer all awesome.

Sounds like NA has worse pugs than EU. And I thought EU Pugs were bad…

WoR and hammer in fractals ARE very important though… amongst other things. Being a guardian in fractals involves a lot of swapping of weapons and skills and occasionally traits and armour. Which TBH I only see myself doing, and if there’s a second guardian, I never see them hanging around at the start or asking to wait to swap out. :P

But your experience with PuGs does sound worse than mine. XD I mean, I too rarely see 25 stacks of might, but I often do. Maybe 1 dungeon run a day I see it. I have more issues with inexperienced people, who when I explain the tactics to, they usually follow. It’s the ones that don’t know what they’re doing AND don’t listen that I hate.

I have never seen a PuG group skip Kholer in the past year and a half so yeah, dunno what groups you’re joining. XD

Most rangers don’t melee – you’re right there.

I’m not sure what you mean by a ‘5 man DPS group’? Could you clear that up?

Thanks for this Chef, reminds me of this topic

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/dungeons/Elitists-I-ll-honestly-miss-you/first

NovaanVerdiano.6174:

Sounds like NA has worse pugs than EU. And I thought EU Pugs were bad…

I was told the only thing that surpasses a NA PUG’s toxicity is their lack of skill or intelligence.
Then again I’ve never gone through the trouble of buying another account and joining a NA server to check out these rumors :P

Are PUGs really so awful at the moment? Makes me want to invite you to dungeon runs, lol.

sazberryftw.3809:

I’m not sure what you mean by a ‘5 man DPS group’? Could you clear that up?

all 5 member of the party are running DpS gear and builds.

sad i know.

No Pulse.2967:

Are PUGs really so awful at the moment? Makes me want to invite you to dungeon runs, lol.

If you have people that Run in the time table that i usually play. I would very much jump

I try very hard to not make anyone cater to me, i would prefer to be able to be honest about what I can do and try to fit into the situation beneficially.

Enaretos.8079:

Thanks for this Chef, reminds me of this topic

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/dungeons/Elitists-I-ll-honestly-miss-you/first

THAT,

was a great thread.

thanks for saving that.

Not all pugs are bad,

Some of them are like me and just have not learned some things yet.

I have never been kicked from a run,
And 98 percent of the time most everyone is rather enjoyable. few tense moments here and there. but such as it is.

Man, it is hit and miss. I pug quite a bit (often with a warrior buddy), and we take the good with the bad. I will agree that I rarely get off my Guard, because when I do, I’m at the mercy of staff/scepter guys that think WoR is either cheese or don’t understand how it works. There’s often one guy that has some anti-meta build (probably not on purpose, just ignorant of it), like a ranger that camps longbow (even in melee) or thieves camping shortbow (even in melee). But, as everyone knows, it doesn’t really matter, because four spastics with safety helmets and sippy cups can finish CoFp1 in 10 minutes.

But here’s the point. There are opportunities in pugging, if you look for them. I love the starry-eyed, fresh faced kid with 800ap, that says this is his first dungeon. Or that tells us he tried AC once, but the Queen just ate them alive until bed time. And then he says, and this is the important bit, “It’s all confusing. I just need someone to show me how it works”. I’ll run every kitten path with that guy, all night long. I’ll even drag him into fractals, just cause. I’m a sucker for someone who wants to learn.

Then sometimes, every now and again, the stars align and it all comes together. You get 5 guys that know the path, that are running the good gear, that bothered to pop consumables, that don’t even talk in chat, because they’re too busy playing and there’s no need anyway, and things just evaporate under the glare of our dps. That’s so fun, especially in light of the previous pug I just did with a staff necro and a rifle warrior and one guy that never made it out of LA but we didn’t bother to kick…

But what really spins my top is when I get a pro in a pug. Like a guy that just has us along to laugh at his jokes, because he’s totally comfortable soloing the thing anyway. Why is it great? It makes me play better. I try to rise to the occasion, I want things to go smoothly, I don’t want to waste an opportunity to play with someone on the next level from where I’m at, and I want to maybe learn a trick to two. Those nights, the paths just go by too quickly.

So yeah, it is hit and miss, you take the good with the bad, and when life hands you lemons, you make lemon-scented naplam. Such is the life of a pugger.

synk.8762:

.

(raises glass)

hellzyessem brother!

If you PUG that much, maybe you should just join a guild? For myself, I don’t play dungeons frequently enough to be in that sort of guild, anymore, but if you PUG a lot, you should probably just have a guild to play with.

Neko.9021:

If you PUG that much, maybe you should just join a guild? For myself, I don’t play dungeons frequently enough to be in that sort of guild, anymore, but if you PUG a lot, you should probably just have a guild to play with.

I believe he has trouble finding a guild that runs up to the hours when he’s available to play given the busy schedule he mentioned.

But yes, these days dungeon and general endgame PvE dedicated guilds are a dime a dozen in both regions I’d say and most are at least fairly competent in their craft. Chances are one could be a good fit for you Chef

I only really come across issues when it’s PUGs who won’t listen, and seem to not even be reading the chat. If they’re new, or inexperienced, and willing to listen and learn I have no issue with that at all. Even though I do love coming across a group who know EXACTLY what they’re doing, and are just as skilled an experienced as myself and it just flows perfectly and smoothly… ahhh. I would love all PUGs to be running DPS builds/the most optimal build(s) for their class for dungeons, but I can live without.

It’s just when they refuse to co-operate that angers me.

Neko.9021:

If you PUG that much, maybe you should just join a guild? For myself, I don’t play dungeons frequently enough to be in that sort of guild, anymore, but if you PUG a lot, you should probably just have a guild to play with.

I am Guild master to a 300 person guild.

Without going to far into it. Its one of those things that when me and my brother started the guild 18 months ago. it fulfilled a need at the time. It STILL fullfills a need within the game for a great number of people. And in the grande scheme of it. It somewhere i can offload some of the cool stuff i learn from all the people here.

That being said.
I am slowly stepping away from that group in some way and have been for a long time. I value and respect each and every member of “chains”. But MY personal goals are changing and adapting.

I also PuG alot simply because well…. 3 am fractals are difficult to come by.

Ropechef.6192:

I also PuG alot simply because well…. 3 am fractals are difficult to come by.

Amen to that. I’ll see you there.

synk.8762:

-cut-

10/10, you almost made me want to go PUG. From the other side, though, it is very satisfying to PUG 1 or 2 spots and read all the “holy kitten this is fast” comments.

I more or less PUG everything too. My experiences have ranged from “Wow, I can’t believe how smooth this is going!” (ironically, it was in a “Friendly, casual run. All welcome!” group) to “Oh man, we’ve been in here for almost 3 hours now… x_x”. No ragequits on my part, although there were a couple of occasions where the instance opener did. Wasted all of our time…

Basically with PUGs, you win some, you lose some. But if you’re friendly, helpful and dedicated, you’ll usually win through in the end, and you’ll have some funny stories to tell for the future too.

Bleh, PUGs really aren’t that bad. I see all of those things you’ve listed in at least one run a day. I get more upset by players’ poor choices in fashion than anything else.

Never did get the issue with skiping Kohler either. That fight is as pointless as it is fast. His chest is utterly worthless and a lone champion bag doesn’t make much of a difference in the greater scheme of things.

Been playing in both regions. NA pugs are 50 light years more dated than EU pugs. Just to say how bad it is. The worst I’ve seen in EU pugs are they don’t speak English and just promptly kick. The NA pugs preach and preach and preach… and ragequit.

Iris Ng.9845:

Been playing in both regions. NA pugs are 50 light years more dated than EU pugs. Just to say how bad it is. The worst I’ve seen in EU pugs are they don’t speak English and just promptly kick. The NA pugs preach and preach and preach… and ragequit.

French pugs are De best!

Jk

Jk

Jk.

I got a 25 might/vuln/fury/banners/frostspotter pug once, it was pretty godlike.

the best pugs are the ones that recognise me off the forums and give a little hero worship. second best are the ones I quietly carry and then either at the end or after lupicus express their gratitude for my effort helping the group – they make it all worth it to me. on the bottom end are organised groups I can afk faceroll the bosses with, they completely bore me to tears.

maha.7902:

the best pugs are the ones that recognise me off the forums and give a little hero worship. second best are the ones I quietly carry and then either at the end or after lupicus express their gratitude for my effort helping the group – they make it all worth it to me. on the bottom end are organised groups I can afk faceroll the bosses with, they completely bore me to tears.

This is pretty much the only reason I pug nowadays. That and to meet more cool kids.

Additionally, I find that it refines my skill set. If I can survive in a really bad pug, I know my shiznit.

I just realized I haven’t pugged (or even played much dungeons at all) in a couple of weeks, and seriously need to do so again. My poor baby guardian has reached lvl 80 and only has half an armour set to wear due to not enough tokens sigh.

I do enjoy pugging (on EU) most of the time, although it’s a lot more hit-and-miss on my ranger than on my mesmer, as I find myself more survivable on the mesmer without a good group to help. I guess there’s still a lot I have to learn about the ranger … let’s hope the guardian won’t distract me (too much ).

Ropechef.6192:

…..

I instead can play with whatever class i want with almost any pug… and still succeed :o

Sometimes i go mesmer, other ele staff dps, but i even go scepter focus celestial not to mention the number of different traits i use.

The nice thing is it makes every run different and not the usual copy paste of a youtube run.
Expecially in fractal you can get some fun with pugs to forget the lack of istances this game has.

There are times when all you want is clear the dungeon as fast as possible.
Other times that finishing it without wiping is enough.

If you can do just one of the two, you can’t call yourself experienced (nothing wrong with it, unless you open thread on the forum against pugs ).

Must be really unlucky then. I pug frequently for the past 3-4 months (i only started playing this game on february i think) and have seen plenty of 25 stack of mights from phalanx warriors/elementalist, guardian with reflects etc.

That being said while i was learning arah, most groups range or wipe in melee but theres also pug groups that know how to fight lupi, some can even solo it. It took me a a week or two before i finally learned how to solo most of the bosses in arah but its well worth it, the challenge is something you will rarely find as far as pve is concerned.

I like how if an “elitist” complaints about a PUG not running dungeons the meta way everyone on the forums is like “Oh no, I feel so sorry for you, PUGs suck”, but when a “casual” complaints that his group forces him to play the meta way everyone is like “lol go get a guild or something, make your own LFG, can’t you think for yourself? We’re not gonna change for you”.
I detect double standards here

He’s not complaining at all. And he’s not being forceful saying that people should play the game his way either. The chance of getting a fully organised meta group is honestly just extremely slim when most of them just play in their own guilds.

Rasimir.6239:

I just realized I haven’t pugged (or even played much dungeons at all) in a couple of weeks, and seriously need to do so again. My poor baby guardian has reached lvl 80 and only has half an armour set to wear due to not enough tokens sigh.

I do enjoy pugging (on EU) most of the time, although it’s a lot more hit-and-miss on my ranger than on my mesmer, as I find myself more survivable on the mesmer without a good group to help. I guess there’s still a lot I have to learn about the ranger … let’s hope the guardian won’t distract me (too much ).

cough You can always pug me cough

winterchillz.2564:

Rasimir.6239:

I just realized I haven’t pugged (or even played much dungeons at all) in a couple of weeks, and seriously need to do so again. My poor baby guardian has reached lvl 80 and only has half an armour set to wear due to not enough tokens sigh.

cough You can always pug me cough

But, but … you’re always away in some dungeon or other whenever I look at my friendlist . Seriously though, if you happened to be in for a CoF path or two late afternoon over the next few days, I think I need 8 more runs for the rest of the armour (and a ton more of all kinds of dungeons just for fun ), I wouldn’t mind sneaking in a run whenever it fits. Depends a lot on rl commitments on my end though, time is scarce now that I’m back to work sigh.

Rasi, you’re far too kind, you know? Just poke me in-game when you need a spotfiller for a run.

i have know most of the friend i made in gw in a pug run

so you can

“I have never seen 25 stacks of might.
I have never seen a 5 person DpS group.
I have never seen a Sword, Warhorn/axe Ranger.
I have never seen a dagger Necromancer.
I have to be the Gaurdian in Fractals because wall of reflection and hammer is not what being a guardian is about… 0.o
Kohler is skipped 19 out of 20 times..
Lupi is either rage quit or ranged. Melee involves at least 5 wipes. (as i am not quite good enough to solo him… YET)
i am sure i could think of more if i really thought about it.
…. ((sobs)) "

and lost some speedrun but find alot awesome people

I exclusively PUG dungeons (NA) and my experience is 100% opposite yours. I expect 25 stacks of might, FGSs, melee rangers (of which I am one) and no staff guardians or signet warriors.

The difference may be in the LFGs you choose. Never join the “level 80s” or “please know path” groups, join the “ping berserker gear and be meta” LFGs. They’re almost as common and fill almost as quickly.

Axelwarrior.9084:

I like how if an “elitist” complaints about a PUG not running dungeons the meta way everyone on the forums is like “Oh no, I feel so sorry for you, PUGs suck”, but when a “casual” complaints that his group forces him to play the meta way everyone is like “lol go get a guild or something, make your own LFG, can’t you think for yourself? We’re not gonna change for you”.
I detect double standards here

There’s a difference between “not playing the meta” (which I really don’t care about when pugging) and “playing like utter kitten”.

I’m on the EU and for the most part when I pug, things are generally pretty good. Join up, fight our way through, loot the boss and part ways. On extremely rare occasions I’ll get a noob or two. I really, really, really don’t mind dungeon newbies provided they tell me before hand that they are new. I really don’t appreciate finding out half way through when they’re dying over and over again. I won’t count myself as any sort of dungeon pro or speed runner. For example, I still haven’t finished Arah or TA because those two dungeons really don’t pique my interest. However, I am experienced enough that I can keep up with speed runners or just hack my way through for the hell of it.

At the times I feel like dungeons, I remind myself that pugging is a lottery. Some days I’ll the jackpot and every run is a blitz, other days not so good and yet others I’ll host a non stacking party and chop everything down in sight. Those last ones have been very fun. I see a mob and I aggro it, I’ve had players joining me who are like minded and we have an absolute ball doing it the old school way. This is what dungeons is about. Speed clears are one thing but going old school is infinitely more charming, not necessarily profitable with respect to time vs income, but a helluva lot more fun.

You mean “I find it more fun”. I don’t find killing everything fun.

maha.7902:

You mean “I find it more fun”. I don’t find killing everything fun.

Your PHIW is showing /Kappa

On a side note…we need smilies

I have almost never seen an “elitist” switch armorset/build when the Group struggle at last boss for example.

I wonder if they even know they can change traits/equip.

If you want to be effective, you have to learn also how to save the day

Obviously a couple of decent players in the party is the bare minimum, it all comes being one of them.

I also pug since beta, due to time constraints.
My experience is less negative but not lacking of surprises (3 staff guard @ fractal 50, 3 eles no fg and so on).
I just adopted a more “relaxed” posture with eazy dungeons and quit on 3rd wipe.
Also my gratitude to our fellow meta game researchers for your time and dedication on creating guides.
And thanks Lilith for “FashionWars” contests, so now my norn girls can wear pretty thing without feeling ashamed for being “big-boned”.

I almost exclusively PUG and I will say that I have seen some progress in NA over the last month or two. Kholer has now been killed in 9 of my last 10 runs when it used to be just the opposite. Teams blindly run to the stack spot behind him even with no FGS, but at least he is being killed. I actually joined a group that FGS rushed Spider Queen in her old spot too.

It brought a tear to my eye when I joined a CoE run a week or so back and when I told them I would run PS on my warrior they said not to worry because we had 2 eles. Low and behold, 25 might stacks for all three runs….. stunning.

My guess is that we are seeing less new people buying the game and more people playing a while and continuing to learn. Upward trajectory is great. I can’t speak of the 3 AM crowd, but the 5:30 AM crowd seems to be improving.

I am on at odd times compared to most of my friends list/guildies, so I used to pug a lot. I haven’t pugged in a month or two, or run any dungeons at all (that I remember) in the past couple weeks; I really haven’t noticed any huge improvements among pugs. I totally have an absolutely massive folder of screenshots of fail pugs that I share with people because some of the stuff I used to find was just unbelievable.

Maybe I should start up again, for science, but I’d probably just get discouraged reading the terribly spelled/dumb LFMs.

“LFG – group to provide epic fail screenshots”

synk.8762:

Man, it is hit and miss. I pug quite a bit (often with a warrior buddy), and we take the good with the bad. I will agree that I rarely get off my Guard, because when I do, I’m at the mercy of staff/scepter guys that think WoR is either cheese or don’t understand how it works. There’s often one guy that has some anti-meta build (probably not on purpose, just ignorant of it), like a ranger that camps longbow (even in melee) or thieves camping shortbow (even in melee). But, as everyone knows, it doesn’t really matter, because four spastics with safety helmets and sippy cups can finish CoFp1 in 10 minutes.

But here’s the point. There are opportunities in pugging, if you look for them. I love the starry-eyed, fresh faced kid with 800ap, that says this is his first dungeon. Or that tells us he tried AC once, but the Queen just ate them alive until bed time. And then he says, and this is the important bit, “It’s all confusing. I just need someone to show me how it works”. I’ll run every kitten path with that guy, all night long. I’ll even drag him into fractals, just cause. I’m a sucker for someone who wants to learn.

Then sometimes, every now and again, the stars align and it all comes together. You get 5 guys that know the path, that are running the good gear, that bothered to pop consumables, that don’t even talk in chat, because they’re too busy playing and there’s no need anyway, and things just evaporate under the glare of our dps. That’s so fun, especially in light of the previous pug I just did with a staff necro and a rifle warrior and one guy that never made it out of LA but we didn’t bother to kick…

But what really spins my top is when I get a pro in a pug. Like a guy that just has us along to laugh at his jokes, because he’s totally comfortable soloing the thing anyway. Why is it great? It makes me play better. I try to rise to the occasion, I want things to go smoothly, I don’t want to waste an opportunity to play with someone on the next level from where I’m at, and I want to maybe learn a trick to two. Those nights, the paths just go by too quickly.

So yeah, it is hit and miss, you take the good with the bad, and when life hands you lemons, you make lemon-scented naplam. Such is the life of a pugger.

-Wipes tear- Well written ( : We have much in common! Although I won’t exactly run every path with someone who’s willing to learn, I’m always happy to teach people and to offer them my time if they need it. The thing a lot of people don’t seem to understand about PUGs is that you can’t always go in expecting a perfectly smooth run. there will be good ones and bad ones. And you can either enjoy the good ones and learn from the bad ones, or cry that not every single PUG group is perfect.

And for the record, OP… I’m a sword/warhorn Ranger ( ; The ones that don’t kick me on sight often love me to death by the time the dungeon’s over.

Fluffball.8307:

The difference may be in the LFGs you choose. Never join the “level 80s” or “please know path” groups, join the “ping berserker gear and be meta” LFGs. They’re almost as common and fill almost as quickly.

“Ping gear and be meta” are usually people who don’t understand the game. They are just running zerk because they’ve heard it’s good, and just copy and paste a meta build and don’t read the skills properly. All my LFGs only ask for level 80 (because I’m at least here to run with people who have everything available to them). I then trust to get people who understand the path, understand their class, and understand what they should be running and when.

If I see an ele not giving FGS on a boss, I’ll casually bring it up. If a ranger isn’t melee, or a thief isn’t running S/P when it would be really helpful, I’ll bring that up too (although I do find most ranger seem to be unable to read chat…).

You have just as much risk of failure joining a zerk meta only group as you do joining a ‘lvl 80’ group. They could still suck just as hard and still not listen to your advice.

try to join a 9k+ap group.

Did a 49 with 2 necros, went surprisingly smooth

sazberryftw.3809:

Fluffball.8307:

The difference may be in the LFGs you choose. Never join the "level 80s" or "please know path" groups, join the "ping berserker gear and be meta" LFGs. They’re almost as common and fill almost as quickly.

"Ping gear and be meta" are usually people who don’t understand the game. They are just running zerk because they’ve heard it’s good, and just copy and paste a meta build and don’t read the skills properly. All my LFGs only ask for level 80 (because I’m at least here to run with people who have everything available to them). I then trust to get people who understand the path, understand their class, and understand what they should be running and when.

If I see an ele not giving FGS on a boss, I’ll casually bring it up. If a ranger isn’t melee, or a thief isn’t running S/P when it would be really helpful, I’ll bring that up too (although I do find most ranger seem to be unable to read chat...).

You have just as much risk of failure joining a zerk meta only group as you do joining a ’lvl 80’ group. They could still suck just as hard and still not listen to your advice.

In my experience the more nitpicky the LFG ad the worse the group is, I’ve joined groups of the ’5k+ AP Meta Zerkers Gearcheck’ kind that were flat out bad, from elementalists having no clue about stacking might or at least provide fire fields for others to do so to thieves who couldn’t blast their own smoke fields, you name it. Truth is these days people spend more time trying to imitate something they’ve seen in a video than trying to understand it. Appropriate trait and gear selection are only a small fraction of the process, having a berserker’s set with scholar runes doesn’t automatically make you a competent dungeoneer.
The best PUGs I’ve been in however all seemed to employ jokes in their ads, because after all dungeons are a joke for more experienced players. If I had an euro for everytime I scorpion wired an illusionist while killing abominations just before lupicus just to keep things interesting... *sigh*

sazberryftw.3809:

“Ping gear and be meta” are usually people who don’t understand the game.

Sorry but no. I’m one of those “ping gear and be meta” and while I’m not a solo-class player (even though I can solo some paths) I don’t consider myself a guy that don’t understand the game. I want to relax and play to play, not play to win. I put myself under stress by forming the party but after that, it’s relax and smooth exactly as I wanted. Always. Yeah sometimes I don’t see the might stack hitting 25. It’s rarely under 15 though. Sometimes a guy dies. We kill the boss, we rev him, he says sorry, we continue, no one rage quits. It’s smooth, I don’t have to work like I’m doing AC P1 with 4 first-timers where I have to change class more than once (because I’m not solo material). Okay we lose a few minutes because of issues. I notice and just shut up about it or if the group seems open I speak about them.

In those groups, the only place where I always see at least two-three people noobing around is the husk room in CoE p2. Apart from that, I’ve yet to encounter a real issue in those groups. Oh yeah, when I don’t write “meta” — because I play with a friend that is zerker, but not “meta” — the only issue I face are people complaining about the fact that he’s not meta, so right-click / kick is easy.