Guild Wars 2

dominik.9721:

Lilith Ajit.6173:

dominik.9721:

I read every single post. What’s your problem that I gave my thoughts to it?
I announced my idea to realize a tournement like ToL in PvE style and elucidated my concerns about it

You didn’t read the part that discussed adding surprise restrictions and having the teams deal with them on the fly. It’s about more than just speed. It’s versatility and skill and communication. You do not know what we are trying to figure out here. You offered the basic suggestion “who is faster at x dungeon” without adding anything and said that the idea wasn’t good because ToL is this and that." Just please go away I’m fed up with all of you kitties not understanding words.

I never said, that it have to be only about speed. It was a fast idea to realize because I like the idea. Dunno what’s your problem is and why you react so obstinately and infantinely towards me in every single thread

Mainly because even your signature has spelling errors.

That explains your unfriendly and childish reaction towards me in every single thread. Now I know, thank you very much

Lilith Ajit.6173:

That’s a good idea Jerus. Could also be… if anyone dies it’s over. So you would have to pay attention to your team and have an insane amount of coordination.

I like it.

I’m so childish boohoo.

Whatever if only this forum had an ignore button we would both be happy.

So guys I was thinking about the death thing. Which dungeons have the most wipe spots? Is it just Arah?

Lilith Ajit.6173:

I’m so childish boohoo.

Whatever if only this forum had an ignore button we would both be happy.

So guys I was thinking about the death thing. Which dungeons have the most wipe spots? Is it just Arah?

I don’t think you can beat arah, where a little misstep on a skip can wipe you then get to bosses that do the same, just can’t really beat it.

Jerus.4350:

Lilith Ajit.6173:

I’m so childish boohoo.

Whatever if only this forum had an ignore button we would both be happy.

So guys I was thinking about the death thing. Which dungeons have the most wipe spots? Is it just Arah?

I don’t think you can beat arah, where a little misstep on a skip can wipe you then get to bosses that do the same, just can’t really beat it.

Yeah that’s what I was thinking. An Arah p4. No exploits. No deaths. Whoever dies first loses whoever lives the longest or finishes the quickest wins.

I don’t think CoF and CoE etc should be included in a challenge like that. There’s no skill at all in beating them, and the only factor which contributes to the speed of a run is DPS.

Putting them into a tournament would just shine a harsh light on the weakest part of GW2.

I personally don’t think GW2 is ready for a PvE tourney like that yet. PvE in this game is too dependent on DPS, and thus it makes for a boring tournament to watch.

If they want an interesting tournament, they should make a dungeon which tests every aspect the game has to offer. Control, use of combo fields, condition management, DPS management (ie, not just do as much as possible), positioning, reactive dodging, the whole lot. We don’t have something like that yet.

Well the thing is – if we did a tournament where people have to go through a full tour of certain dungeons, sure you can have a hella glassy composition of say, triple ele, warrior, guard but the risk of failure becomes that much higher because of how squishy the classes are – whereas if you pull it off you’ll get pretty kitten quick dungeon clears. So you’d actually see some diversity in composition between guilds who feel they can go balls to the wall DPS and others who would rather say, not have two people die then have to three-man the rest of an instance.

maha.7902:

Well the thing is – if we did a tournament where people have to go through a full tour of certain dungeons, sure you can have a hella glassy composition of say, triple ele, warrior, guard but the risk of failure becomes that much higher because of how squishy the classes are – whereas if you pull it off you’ll get pretty kitten quick dungeon clears. So you’d actually see some diversity in composition between guilds who feel they can go balls to the wall DPS and others who would rather say, not have two people die then have to three-man the rest of an instance.

We could also just pick one path. And either have the death thing be the rule or add in other rules to mess with their plans. The goal is to see the coordination and on the spot theory crafting truly random dungeons might present.

Try making a poll on general diss-cuss-ion asking if or not people would even care about that kind of idea or dungeons at all.

Xae Isareth.1364:

I don’t think CoF and CoE etc should be included in a challenge like that. There’s no skill at all in beating them, and the only factor which contributes to the speed of a run is DPS.

Putting them into a tournament would just shine a harsh light on the weakest part of GW2.

I personally don’t think GW2 is ready for a PvE tourney like that yet. PvE in this game is too dependent on DPS, and thus it makes for a boring tournament to watch.

If they want an interesting tournament, they should make a dungeon which tests every aspect the game has to offer. Control, use of combo fields, condition management, DPS management (ie, not just do as much as possible), positioning, reactive dodging, the whole lot. We don’t have something like that yet.

Every game I’ve played has been just as reliant on DPS, maybe a few more gimicks and hoops to jump through but in the end when we went min/max speed running stuff we dropped the healers/tanks to the bare minimum and went full out DPS. To me it’s no different than what we see here, there are times you want a mesmer/guard for their utility support through walls/condition removal/boons. You want a thief for stealth.

If you were to go full DPS you’d want something like 3 eles + war + ranger if I understand it right. But in doing so you’d be missing out on all that utility that a guard/thief/mesmer. And when you’re looking at a challenge that most people are agreeing should have some degree of variables or extra challenges, going without the full coverage of utilities seems far more dangerous than is worthwhile.

I’d argue that SEp1 speed clears utilize all the elements you suggest. There is a reason the fastest run had a mesmer, and it wasn’t just for the portal tricks they did. THey needed the pull for positioning. Condition removal is important as a freeze from one of the adds on the “bridge” part is going to take time off the run. There is your positioning/condition management right there. Utilization of fields, look before every fight at the use of fire fields. And again positioning is key to even use Fiery rush. Then, while in that run they killed things before dodging was required, that’s true, but for me and my group we had to dodge tazza’s special attack. But even so if I’m remembering right you see some dodging on the bridge in that record run.

While a lot of focus is on DPS I don’t think it’s fair to say that people aren’t using the full set of utility when/where it’s required. Put a challenge like this out there and you’d have to build a group that could handle anything.

Lilith Ajit.6173:

Jerus.4350:

Lilith Ajit.6173:

I’m so childish boohoo.

Whatever if only this forum had an ignore button we would both be happy.

So guys I was thinking about the death thing. Which dungeons have the most wipe spots? Is it just Arah?

I don’t think you can beat arah, where a little misstep on a skip can wipe you then get to bosses that do the same, just can’t really beat it.

Yeah that’s what I was thinking. An Arah p4. No exploits. No deaths. Whoever dies first loses whoever lives the longest or finishes the quickest wins.

I was thinking something like Start with Arah2(fairly simple but still risky enough to knock a lot out). Death is for good, so you continue on. First team to beat it gets to choose the next dungeon. All group compositions are set once it starts, so that team that wins may see that someone doesn’t have a certain profession that’s really good in a certain path, and choose that to knock them out. “they don’t have a guard, lets go TA”. Advantage for speed, but you still have to survive the dungeons.

Go until you have only 1 or 2 teams left, then it’s a “sudden death” run for speed with it being whoever was the fastest on the previous path getting to choose where it takes place.

/shrug.
Want to get fancy you could even add a little element from my favorite drinking games “make a rule” for the fastest run. So each dungeon round you get to add a rule to the runs. Be it “no FGS” or “No reflects” or even “must have one player in an illusionary form” as in quaggin tonics/whatever.

Hendo makes a good point though, you need people to do it and be interested in it for it to even be worthwhile. I doubt I could get my normal dungeon group to do it, but I’m sure I could get some dungeon group together for it if it ever happened on a day I wasn’t working.

I like it.

I think generalizing the concept to a pseudo-speed run with a major impediment that is a surprise for the run is great. It encourages on-the-spot creativity and also skill. I think ideally we should tell players what the impediment is before they pick their classes, so maybe like an hour beforehand set them up with the information and give them a chance to do things from there. That would be ideal. In the test run perhaps we could just pick the challenge up front (dead players cannot be revived and cannot WP, and a wipe is a loss).

I also think that for a test run to set up the stream software one path is fine, but ultimately for brackets we would want different paths that are not pre-announced, and Arah should not be the only dungeon chosen. With certain impediments or “gambits” in play, other dungeons become much more threatening. CoE and HotW, for instance, can be very tricky under certain circumstances. Furthermore, we’d absolutely want variety so viewing it wouldn’t be boring.

That said, I still strongly suggest the four players and fifth player as a spectator. One of the biggest problems with 5-man teams and one of them having to stream is that it greatly limits the ability for less known teams to participate. One of the most important things for tournaments like this is inclusion, and that is critical if we ever want ANet to support such a tournament with actual rewards.

EDIT:
I also wanted to mention that I reached out to some ANet devs I’ve talked to before with some discussion about this. I’ll see what they have to say, but ideally I’d like ANet involved somehow. Maybe we can start these tournaments small with like a gem card as a reward, and once we prove the concept and drum up some interest, maybe expand to bigger things.

Well if we still had Hrouda that would almost be realistic

I did this in gw1 for a little competition but this may be good in addition so some ideas posted above.

Have 5 builds for each profession. (40 builds in all)
Match day 1hr-20mins before start randomly select the 5*or 4* professions for the group.
Match day 50mins-10mins before start randomly select builds they will use.
armour can stay as is because too much to buy Though maybe can standardize by all wear white/blue armour may be too much for that scale (didnt have problem in gw1) *
They can reroll builds *as a group once. The punishment being ofc the time spend coordinating and seeing what each has.

Just something ive done before

The idea is good but you will loose your sanity in the organisation

On the “surprise” rule the risk is to have complains about how unfair it was for one team to have such rule and not the other. On the other hand you could impose the same rule for each path but decide them at the latest time so that people won’t train too much. About those rule, what about having a 5 of a class or take 5 different class ? You could also ask to run COF 1 without any traits… I put COF 1 b/c such a rule is not really funny in complex path.
Problem in the structure of the game is that it is impossible to have a spectator in a dungeon… meaning it would be a nightmare to be sure people have done the things correctly.

Holy crap. Thank you.

HOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOLY

OH

MY

!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Clearly we are all suffering from mass hallucinations. Dont worry its nothing to be worried about it happens to everyone.

Kidding aside

HOLY SHI-

You finally got what you were asking for!

(PAYDAY 2 achievement, somehow it fits this perfectly!)

So let’s freaking plan this sucker!

has nostalgic feelings about being able to spectate a party member when dead in gw1

A reply in the dungeon section??? Did a snowball just roll through h-e-double hockey sticks unscathed?

Would it have to be streamed?

Pure speed clears would be skewed to favor certain professions. At the same time, dps should still be an issue.

How about this -

Twilight Assault (Aetherpath) runs – with the winning team being determined by how far a teams gets into the path without anyone in the party going into a downed state. If teams clear with no one going down, then the team that clears the fastest wins (that way both survivability and damage are part of the equation).

Blaeys.3102:

Pure speed clears would be skewed to favor certain professions. At the same time, dps should still be an issue.

How about this -

Twilight Assault (Aetherpath) runs – with the winning team being determined by how far a teams gets into the path without anyone in the party going into a downed state. If teams clear with no one going down, then the team that clears the fastest wins (that way both survivability and damage are part of the equation).

I like the idea. I’m just wondering why TA aether? Why not Arah or a level 50 fractal or something similar?

Lilith Ajit.6173:

Blaeys.3102:

Pure speed clears would be skewed to favor certain professions. At the same time, dps should still be an issue.

How about this -

Twilight Assault (Aetherpath) runs – with the winning team being determined by how far a teams gets into the path without anyone in the party going into a downed state. If teams clear with no one going down, then the team that clears the fastest wins (that way both survivability and damage are part of the equation).

I like the idea. I’m just wondering why TA aether? Why not Arah or a level 50 fractal or something similar?

I really don’t think fractals are fair due to the random nature. If we could somehow guarantee matching fractal paths sure, but I don’t think we can do that.

I think it’s because Aetherpath is hardly ever run. But then again so is SE P2. Personally I think the lesser-done paths should be used, to throw in that little bit of extra challenge.
How little is little? I don’t know, but I think the speedclearers would have a pretty good idea of that.

Also, should teams be allowed the chance to make it to the end of the dungeon with less than 5 players alive? If the “once dead you’re out” rule is implemented some paths can be impossible to complete unless they revive, which could complicate things. Unless they’re forced to sit out the dungeon.

Did a quick scan so someone might have already said this and I missed it buuuuut….

I’ve been planning on recording full naked dungeon runs of every path of every dungeon in game (minus fractals cause AR). So no-gear is another option for a dungeon tournament. That way you don’t have to worry about ascended and whatnot. White lvl 1 weapons only. No trinkets. Your additional power/vit/tough is all derived from your traits/utilities/etc. So an ‘iron man’ like run could potentially include going gearless. Use 80s so that you can still make use of all your traited abilities.

Just another thought. These suggestions are fantastic =D

Lilith Ajit.6173:

Blaeys.3102:

Pure speed clears would be skewed to favor certain professions. At the same time, dps should still be an issue.

How about this -

Twilight Assault (Aetherpath) runs – with the winning team being determined by how far a teams gets into the path without anyone in the party going into a downed state. If teams clear with no one going down, then the team that clears the fastest wins (that way both survivability and damage are part of the equation).

I like the idea. I’m just wondering why TA aether? Why not Arah or a level 50 fractal or something similar?

Level 50 fractal would limit participation based on AR – and they would have to do something about the randomness factor. As for Arah, there is considerably less need for teamwork than Aetherpath (which is why we see so many solo videos) and much of the content – including some bosses – can be too easily skipped. The strategy would become who can run past stuff the best instead of who can handle the fights the best.

Lilith Ajit.6173:

Blaeys.3102:

Pure speed clears would be skewed to favor certain professions. At the same time, dps should still be an issue.

How about this -

Twilight Assault (Aetherpath) runs – with the winning team being determined by how far a teams gets into the path without anyone in the party going into a downed state. If teams clear with no one going down, then the team that clears the fastest wins (that way both survivability and damage are part of the equation).

I like the idea. I’m just wondering why TA aether? Why not Arah or a level 50 fractal or something similar?

Imo, TA Aether is more difficult than Arah (also less skips) and fracs 50 would be unfair as one team could get a longer, harder fracs while another team gets easier ones.

blinks

Is this real life?

NovaanVerdiano.6174:

Lilith Ajit.6173:

Blaeys.3102:

Pure speed clears would be skewed to favor certain professions. At the same time, dps should still be an issue.

How about this -

Twilight Assault (Aetherpath) runs – with the winning team being determined by how far a teams gets into the path without anyone in the party going into a downed state. If teams clear with no one going down, then the team that clears the fastest wins (that way both survivability and damage are part of the equation).

I like the idea. I’m just wondering why TA aether? Why not Arah or a level 50 fractal or something similar?

Imo, TA Aether is more difficult than Arah (also less skips) and fracs 50 would be unfair as one team could get a longer, harder fracs while another team gets easier ones.

Well I’m not saying arah is harder I’m just thinking it’s a lot more well known. We can see groups not even consisting of speed runner dungeon guilds participating. Aetherpath is a very niche path. And yeah I understand the fractal reason. But maybe things like mossman or bloomhunger with no reflects or absorption (as someone else suggested).

Lindbur.2537:

I think it’s because Aetherpath is hardly ever run. But then again so is SE P2. Personally I think the lesser-done paths should be used, to throw in that little bit of extra challenge.
How little is little? I don’t know, but I think the speedclearers would have a pretty good idea of that.

Also, should teams be allowed the chance to make it to the end of the dungeon with less than 5 players alive? If the “once dead you’re out” rule is implemented some paths can be impossible to complete unless they revive, which could complicate things. Unless they’re forced to sit out the dungeon.

That’s why I like the idea of starting with a moderatly difficult but commonly run path, then whoever beats that first gets to choose a path. That means they could choose Aether if they think they’re better than others at it. Or they could choose CoF1 knowing that if someone dies before the braziers then it’s a wipe. Of course I would think a restriction of “no 5 man required paths can be chosen when teams already only have 4 players” But I think it could be fun and lead to some less used paths being chosen. Leading up I could practice SE2 or SE Story a lot, knowing htat if i can choose one I’ll subject everyone else to that hellish dungeon

I just think Aether is a bad choice because there are a couple groups who absolutely rock at it and a bajillion who don’t even know how to do the ooze. It’s not well known enough that we would reach the masses. We have a lot more options with things like Arah because there will be more people who could participate competitively (and I’m just saying this because it shouldn’t be something super small and insignificant it should have multiple people grasping for the gold).

Lilith Ajit.6173:

NovaanVerdiano.6174:

Lilith Ajit.6173:

Blaeys.3102:

Pure speed clears would be skewed to favor certain professions. At the same time, dps should still be an issue.

How about this -

Twilight Assault (Aetherpath) runs – with the winning team being determined by how far a teams gets into the path without anyone in the party going into a downed state. If teams clear with no one going down, then the team that clears the fastest wins (that way both survivability and damage are part of the equation).

I like the idea. I’m just wondering why TA aether? Why not Arah or a level 50 fractal or something similar?

Imo, TA Aether is more difficult than Arah (also less skips) and fracs 50 would be unfair as one team could get a longer, harder fracs while another team gets easier ones.

Well I’m not saying arah is harder I’m just thinking it’s a lot more well known. We can see groups not even consisting of speed runner dungeon guilds participating. Aetherpath is a very niche path. And yeah I understand the fractal reason. But maybe things like mossman or bloomhunger with no reflects or absorption (as someone else suggested).

True.

The best thing would prolly be an all new path which will be used for the Tournament where all teams run it for the first time ever and then see who manages to do it the fastest/with the fewest deaths etc. – This most likely can’t be realized though.

NovaanVerdiano.6174:

Lilith Ajit.6173:

NovaanVerdiano.6174:

Lilith Ajit.6173:

Blaeys.3102:

Pure speed clears would be skewed to favor certain professions. At the same time, dps should still be an issue.

How about this -

Twilight Assault (Aetherpath) runs – with the winning team being determined by how far a teams gets into the path without anyone in the party going into a downed state. If teams clear with no one going down, then the team that clears the fastest wins (that way both survivability and damage are part of the equation).

I like the idea. I’m just wondering why TA aether? Why not Arah or a level 50 fractal or something similar?

Imo, TA Aether is more difficult than Arah (also less skips) and fracs 50 would be unfair as one team could get a longer, harder fracs while another team gets easier ones.

Well I’m not saying arah is harder I’m just thinking it’s a lot more well known. We can see groups not even consisting of speed runner dungeon guilds participating. Aetherpath is a very niche path. And yeah I understand the fractal reason. But maybe things like mossman or bloomhunger with no reflects or absorption (as someone else suggested).

True.

The best thing would prolly be an all new path which will be used for the Tournament where all teams run it for the first time ever and then see who manages to do it the fastest/with the fewest deaths etc. – This most likely can’t be realized though.

Probably not. Unless we could convince them to give us a fractalesque experience consisting of… say, the 5 hardest dungeon and fractal bosses and open world of the game to fight in succession. Death is Perma death for the instance and yaddiyaddiyada. I could see the clock heart boss being in there. And lupicus. And maybe the gates of arah guy.

NovaanVerdiano.6174:

Lilith Ajit.6173:

NovaanVerdiano.6174:

Lilith Ajit.6173:

Blaeys.3102:

Pure speed clears would be skewed to favor certain professions. At the same time, dps should still be an issue.

How about this -

Twilight Assault (Aetherpath) runs – with the winning team being determined by how far a teams gets into the path without anyone in the party going into a downed state. If teams clear with no one going down, then the team that clears the fastest wins (that way both survivability and damage are part of the equation).

I like the idea. I’m just wondering why TA aether? Why not Arah or a level 50 fractal or something similar?

Imo, TA Aether is more difficult than Arah (also less skips) and fracs 50 would be unfair as one team could get a longer, harder fracs while another team gets easier ones.

Well I’m not saying arah is harder I’m just thinking it’s a lot more well known. We can see groups not even consisting of speed runner dungeon guilds participating. Aetherpath is a very niche path. And yeah I understand the fractal reason. But maybe things like mossman or bloomhunger with no reflects or absorption (as someone else suggested).

True.

The best thing would prolly be an all new path which will be used for the Tournament where all teams run it for the first time ever and then see who manages to do it the fastest/with the fewest deaths etc. – This most likely can’t be realized though.

if we could get developer involvements (which I doubt at least not initially) I’d love to see a competition of “clear the boss blitz the fastest” 5 man only. It would take a unique strategy as to which bosses you wanted to take down first and what buffs would be passed and what not. It’d be very interesting to try, but… it’d need a fresh map where only 5 people were on it… not something we can set up reliably as a community.

If I had to pick a “tournament format” here is what I would do.

7 dungeons = 128 teams (multiple guilds can enter multiple teams). Teams are seeded 1-128.

Rules: Defeated = no waypoint, you’re done. You can be hard-ressed if someone wants to take the time to do it. Time wipe = GG no RE, you’re done tournament over. If you opposition wipes in p2 and you wipe in p3, you win since you progressed further. Restricted rules, timer starts when the first person moves in p1. Timer ends when the XP pop for the last boss in the final path of the dungeon dies. Restricted rules for consumables, exploits etc. Once person from each team must live stream, if only one person streams and the stream dies, counts as a party wipe. If both teams finish without wiping, lowest timer wins and advances to the next round

Round of 128 – AC
Round of 64 – CM
Round of 32 – TA (no atherpath)
Sweet 16 – SE
Elite 8 – CoF
Final 4 – CoE
Finals – Arah

Last rule, paths must be done in sequential order, i.e. p1 must be done first, p4 last.

I imagine doing this over two weekends would be good since that is a lot of paths to run in one day.

OMFG….. I need to join an elite guild if this is happening.
PS I like Tree’s Suggestion, except you don’t need to do them in order or with the entire team.
AC: Example.
You decide to have 1 person solo path 1, 2duo p2 and another 2duo p3. You can split your 5man team however you want.

dlonie.6547:

blinks

Is this real life?

Is this just fantasy?

Non-Danicia red name in the dungeon forum? 0.0

Is this the Twilight Zone?

Anierna.6918:

Non-Danicia red name in the dungeon forum? 0.0

Is this the Twilight Zone?

I could still use more Danicia presence in my fashion threads.

Josh compete in my fashion contest please Danicia won’t

Anyway Tree I like your idea… it just might be way too long…

Add gambits for dungeons paths ……

Farming Flats.5370:

Add gambits for dungeons paths ……

Or instabilities. But better ones. Hehe. I don’t want mossman in my AC. doesn’t make sense xD

We have AC tears in HotW, why not mossman in AC?

I’d prefer a clown car spawn during every Simin stealth to mossman not being eaten my gravelings.

so, why not add looser bracket after round 16. Here comes HotW!

Ariete The Phoenix.8276:

so, why not add looser bracket after round 16. Here comes HotW!

Buahahaha. That would be great. Loser bracket has to wear a fuzzy hat the whole run.

Ariete The Phoenix.8276:

so, why not add looser bracket after round 16. Here comes HotW!

Looser brackets as in less strict brackets? or?

Or loser brackets? for people who have lost their rounds?

Sorry that typo always makes me laugh