Guild Wars 2

Iehova.9518:

Sitael.4680:

It is the same as with PVT gear, if you know how to play with it, you can do very high damage.

PVT and damage is mutually exclusive.

Your opinion. Bad for you.

Sitael.4680:

Your opinion. Bad for you.

It’s a fact, son.

Please to the people that hate on zerker geared characters, don’t. After running dungeons a couple of times you become so used to them that you basically know all there needs to be known about a boss and mobs, this is where zerker gear comes handy, to deplenish the mobs HP as fast as possible because that’s all most bosses are at the end, a boss with a huge HP pool with no challenge at all.

I love my necro with all my heart, but when it comes time to deal damage and do speed runs I switch out to my zerker warrior.

Players with full MF gear deal similiar damage to PVT. Hence, everyone who considers PVT gear not leeching should consider MF gear equal to PVT in terms of contributing. Plus, you get more shinies. Ergo, MF > PVT. Logical conclusion.

haviz.1340:

Players with full MF gear deal similiar damage to PVT. Hence, everyone who considers PVT gear not leeching should consider MF gear equal to PVT in terms of contributing. Plus, you get more shinies. Ergo, MF > PVT. Logical conclusion.

I disagree. I run a guardian with Knight gear. And I end up tanking all the mobs while the damage guys … do damage, simple. And as soon as I die, my group wipes. So yeah, I’m pretty sure PVT > MF anyday. Screw the MF, since 170% of 1% drop rate is nto much of a game changer, but the bunker build IS. When you realize that, then you should speak your mind

MF is good to get greens… The rest is just make a hard chance to get and item just a little more easy. Trading for more critical, or CD and decrease the overall DPS of the group. I try to tell this a 0,1% chance with 170% magic find will be just 0,27% chance. Not that much… If you get a lot of yellows, it´s just raw luck, I have two chars, one of them with full MF set (with exotic acessories and traveler runes). The only difference in drop is just for the greens, i got more greens with MF, but rarer and exotics seems the same to me.

And for PVT builds, well I have to use PVT and can give a good amount of damage in my warrior, just use comboswap to avoid the cooldowns and keep beating the boss senseless. And an glass cannon is better. Hell yes, a lot, but I will note have time to support my teammates and have to focus only on what I´m doing and what the boss is doing. And yes, I´m not american or europena to live near the server so have lag like most of other “world” players.

Ravenmoon.5318:

I run a guardian with Knight gear.

Knight is not PVT, your post is irrelevant.

I have to use PVT and can give a good amount of damage in my warrior

So tell me, how many signets you run with?

lehova… only dolyak. Having less damage and an ocasional stability is very useful.

Most of time I prefer to use banners and if we have more warrior “for great justice” to stack might andy fury (well, most of time FGJ, if dungeoning with runners balanced instance and endure pain)

gimme an equipment manager like the one in wow and ill switch all day long

I’ve started running with one magic find accessory, amulet, and ring with my normal damage items for those slots in my bag. The extra 24% magic find is nice for the trash mobs and I’m just 3 double-clicks from having my buisness gear on.

Malediktus.9250:

The correct use of magic find gear is to salvage it or to throw it into the mystic toilet.
Wish there would be an inspect feature so I can easier identify and kick magic find leeches.

Do you think first or do you type/reply?

I have armor MF set and PVT armor set, on my D/D ele. I rarely ever die with MF, which is actually contributing MORE to my party because it’s prec/power/MF as opposed to PVT. If I start dying too much then I’ll switch to PVT. I’ll also switch to PVT when I’m going to take some damage (I usually volunteer to kite the mobs on AC flooded temple).

For you to say I leech off my party cuz I use MF? I usually carry the PUGs I join. People like you don’t deserve to be in this game.

As long there are player who run full berserk in fotm/Arah/CoE and are able to survive without any problem there is no arguing about Berserk>P/V/T. You’ll start with P/V/T and swich to Berserk as soon as you’re experienced enought. If you play since release and are still not able to go full GC in PvE-content, then your playstyle is bad and you should feel bad.

@Topic:

I actually kick MF geared people from my PuG.
Go make your gold digging on someone else’s expense >.>

/sign

I have armor MF set and PVT armor set

Then you’re twice as useless.

For you to say I leech off my party cuz I use MF?

Yes. If I pugged, I’d add you to my block list.

You’ll start with P/V/T and swich to Berserk as soon as you’re experienced enought.

Or you can just start with zerker and learn the ‘hard’ way.

wow… I cant believe what I’m reading. “Berzerker > Soldier…” “Soldier>Berzerker…” “MF is the best!”

Do you all honestly wear 1 full set of gear with no variations? Same stats and gems in jewelery slots? Do you all wear the same gear all the time?

I’m just sitting here bewildered since all my characters have mix and match sets that maximize whatever I’m building them for, while keeping secondary stats and effects as high as possible. and Every single one of my characters has multiple sets of jewelery to pop in for more damage, more survivability, more support depending on what I need at the time. Especially in Wv3

I tell everyone, Do as much damage as you can without going down. that is the key, Some fights you can get away with all glass, and some fights you cannot. But in a dungeon If you go down and I have to get you up not only are you no longer dealing damage you are now cutting into mine.

If you go down too much in a fight I’ll leave you there, you aren’t worth my time at that point. And I don’t care how much damage you deal. you are negative damage to the group. You don’t need that extra 2% crit, or that little bit of extra power. Having that extra health and armor so you can withstand a barrage will increase your party damage because they aren’t getting you up.

Same goes for bunker builds who cant even hold “aggro” because half the team is in melee and the boss is spewing AOEs anyways. You are ultimately useless to the team got 3k Armor? Great… do you really need that extra few hundred armor? do you really need that extra 2k extra health? The answer is no. get some DPS in there for kittens sake.

Lokki.1092:

-snip-

When you want to maximize direct damage, there’s really no choice (full zerker). You can play with mixing your gear, but for the optimal dps zerker is the way to go.

The trick I’m using currently is to only use magic find on gear where the amount of stats I am giving up for it is the least. A gem for example, gives 4% magic find instead of 25 stat. In contrast, using magic find on a 2-handed weapon would only give 5% for 179 stat points. By only using the lowest (think it’s gems on normal jewelry, head gloves & boots, and pirate runes) I’m getting a good chunk of magic find and only give up a fraction of the stats I would if I went full.

Best of both worlds scenario…

I think it’s obvious there is some content so easy that it can be done in any gear (MF, greens, etc)

This is where FotM is good. The rewards scale up with the difficulty of content.

There are some smart items (Pirate/MF runes on zerk/knight/whatever exotics, MF ascended rings, food) that can be swapped in for 100% MF with a small loss of effectiveness.

As long as the player is dilligent with gear/food switching for the tough phases it’s not a problem.

But in a pug, people usually are not dilligent. And it becomes a problem.

I compare it to people who don’t have the right potion for a run, which everyone can see. Buy yourself some kitten outlaw/dredge/krait/flame legion/grawl/svanir/elemental potions for a few copper each (the 9%/8%), swap often, and be much better prepared. It’s a shame there’s no ascalonian warrior potion :/

Lokki.1092:

all my characters have mix and match sets that maximize whatever I’m building them for, while keeping secondary stats and effects as high as possible.

As I said, When you are rolling Perm furry and your base 6 Piece armor is zerker adding Valkyrie/Beryl jewelery or Knight’s/Emerald jewelery or just tossing the gems in your zerker jewelery. Or tossing Rubies into the aforementioned Jewelry, Heck tossing some Soldier’s jewelry in with some rubies in it. All those options would net you very little damage loss and a lot more damage mitigation. there is a point where its just not worth it to keep stacking damage or defenses because there is only so much you can improve in one area.

I will take a glass cannon that deals 5% less damage but can take 2 more hits, any day. A lot of boss fights are brutal on mistakes and I rather have a glass cannon that is not broken if a party mistake is made. this goes the same (though opposite) for bunkers. I just don’t see any reason to build 100% one way. Its a disservice to you and your party.

Lokki.1092:

Lokki.1092:

all my characters have mix and match sets that maximize whatever I’m building them for, while keeping secondary stats and effects as high as possible.

As I said, When you are rolling Perm furry and your base 6 Piece armor is zerker adding Valkyrie/Beryl jewelery or Knight’s/Emerald jewelery or just tossing the gems in your zerker jewelery. Or tossing Rubies into the aforementioned Jewelry, Heck tossing some Soldier’s jewelry in with some rubies in it. All those options would net you very little damage loss and a lot more damage mitigation. there is a point where its just not worth it to keep stacking damage or defenses because there is only so much you can improve in one area.

I will take a glass cannon that deals 5% less damage but can take 2 more hits, any day. A lot of boss fights are brutal on mistakes and I rather have a glass cannon that is not broken if a party mistake is made. this goes the same (though opposite) for bunkers. I just don’t see any reason to build 100% one way. Its a disservice to you and your party.

You don’t need more defensive stats than those coming from traits. Game is easy enough.

haviz.1340:

You don’t need more defensive stats than those coming from traits. Game is easy enough.

If you can do it, great. dodge every attack, and never go down then I applaud your ability. If you go down once, and I get you up you have now caused the party to do less damage than if you were able to keep yourself up. so far I’ve played full zerker and I cannot get behind it.

No hard numbers because I don’t have a parser but from my tests In full zerker I get about 5%-8% more DPS (depending on encounter and what weapon I use) than my mix and match set. but with that one it gives me a “just in case” buffer, time for heals, dodges, and getting allies up when they go down. It’s hard to quantify that again no parser and also survivability is always hard to quantify. But I would wager that it’s at least a 50% increase to survivability. The trade off is a no brainier to me. because I cannot account for my party, or my opponents (Wv3).

Slightly less damage for a lot more survivability? slightly more damage for a lot less survivability?

I cant help but think this is what Anet wanted considering the ability to mix and match.

Either way. Seems you are a much better player than I if you simply never go down… or you play a thief (I don’t) but I cannot help but be envious of the ability to just poof away when things are harry. No need for defense I just disappear.

Lokki.1092:

haviz.1340:

You don’t need more defensive stats than those coming from traits. Game is easy enough.

If you can do it, great. dodge every attack, and never go down then I applaud your ability. If you go down once, and I get you up you have now caused the party to do less damage than if you were able to keep yourself up. so far I’ve played full zerker and I cannot get behind it.

No hard numbers because I don’t have a parser but from my tests In full zerker I get about 5%-8% more DPS (depending on encounter and what weapon I use) than my mix and match set. but with that one it gives me a “just in case” buffer, time for heals, dodges, and getting allies up when they go down. It’s hard to quantify that again no parser and also survivability is always hard to quantify. But I would wager that it’s at least a 50% increase to survivability. The trade off is a no brainier to me. because I cannot account for my party, or my opponents (Wv3).

Slightly less damage for a lot more survivability? slightly more damage for a lot less survivability?

I cant help but think this is what Anet wanted considering the ability to mix and match.

Either way. Seems you are a much better player than I if you simply never go down… or you play a thief (I don’t) but I cannot help but be envious of the ability to just poof away when things are harry. No need for defense I just disappear.

The time good player spends on the floor is more than justified by the damage he provides. I’ve never said about not going down at all. Your min/maxing might help in fractals where mobs don’t deal so much damage (damage is spread) as elites in standard dungeon (arah mobs deal about 3.5k with each auto on glass ele).

And yes, I have full zerker thief.

You can mix match only in pve. In pvp your min/maxing ability is severely crippled.

You know what irks me even more than people wearing MF gear in a dugneon? People that don’t stack boon / condition duration. You’re in the group for a reason—not to get your rocks off about how invulnerable your tank is or how much damage you can do without falling on the ground, you’re here to be a team player and that means duration enhancers. I don’t need to provide any numbers about how important these stats are because it is self-evident (plus nobody arguing before me in this thread has, so I don’t feel ompelled to look at evidence, I just have to spout rhetoric to have an equally valid viewpoint).

So yes, I desperately want an inspect feature like so many more have asked for, but I’m going to kick all you PVT and ’zerker leeches. L2Teamplay.

Has nobody realized that you will have the fastest run with a team of experts that are custom-tailored for the content but a well-balanced team, though not as fast, will be more capable of dealing with change and the unknown?

The OP has it right; you can bring in different gear for different situations and, generally, it will be fine. Here’s another novel concept: you can mix and match stats, so you have some magic find, a few pieces of berzerkers, and a few knights… You don’t need a full set of same-stat gear. Just look at the temple karma sets for evidence that mix-and-match was intended.

If your group’s goal is to clear the content as fast as possible, make that known. In cases like this, you are quite right to exclude novice players and players wearing gear or using skills that do not support this goal. But if your group’s goal is introduce a new person to the dungeon, or to meet new people, or to explore every nook and cranny, or to complete a monthly requirement… make it known. Everybody needs to be aware that there are people that both disagree with you and are correct; this doesn’t make you wrong, it just means you differ in your priorities.

If my 2-year-old can negotiate taking turns on the slide with other kids, I tend to think that a community of adults can work out how to run a dungeon together.

Fildydarie.1496:

-snip-

The truth is that the fastest way to do dungeons isn’t by playing balanced builds but straight dps. Until anet increases overall difficulty level balanced builds won’t be as efficient as they should be.

yea sPvP there is no min/max there is jack of all or master of one sadly.

I thought you might be a thief from the way you were talking. One of my pals plays a full zerker thief and man oh man am I often jealous at his survivability without needing to invest much in survivability. I feel it with my Mesmer but I pretty much only sPvP on him. My Ele is my main though and like you said a double crit from certain mobs or bosses in full zerker and I’m done for. so that extra hit I can take goes along way in most encounters… there is a common complaint when it comes to PvE that those 2 classes have a serious DPS boost because of that. And I definitely feel it on my Mesmer in sPvP.

In my experience mesmers are prone to getting phantasms killed before they can act if you don’t try to time them so they appear right after a mob hit but yes the mesmer definitely feels more suited to glass cannoning than ele mainly due to the ele’s health pool. The main reason why glass cannon eles in sPvP isn’t that viable though more due to the fact that players can simply walk out of your AoEs for Staff/Scepter whilst the Dagger main-hand is ill-suited to burst, rather than being a survivability difference issue.

I don’t think PVT gear is selfish, bad, or worse than MF, and let me explain why.

I currently, after much deliberation and testing, run a PVT Guardian with Cleric’s accessories. I have found that this is helpful to the team in many ways, but I’ll give you the short list:

- The rest of the team can be much more reckless, and I can keep a full Berserker’s gear team alive while skipping sections of dungeons that would normally annihilate them if they messed up once
- I can use the Sharpening Stones and gain an absolutely massive amount of Power, translating into very impressive DPS
- The entire team can aggro larger squads and stay alive in situations that normally would kill them, allowing the team to clear the dungeon much faster than were I running Berserker’s gear. (Essentially, I can hold aggro very well as PVT, group enemies up, and keep them there for allies to wail on them with their full DPS gear)
- In high level fractals, this durability translates into a much improved survivability for the team in drawn-out encounters if I can hold aggro, which is not particularly difficult with many squads given GS 5 and my high Toughness stat, which in testing is directly linked (somehow) to how aggro works.

I would also like to move that having tried a Berserker set for the same character, I find that the team’s survivability is greatly reduced, and it becomes much more dependent on them dodging constantly. If the other Berserker geared players have to dodge less, the time they would have spent dodging can now be used to improve team DPS. Thus, I argue that my survivability improves their DPS. This is all without factoring in that people tend to get downed far less often when I get enemies attacking me, which also improves team DPS.

haviz.1340:

Fildydarie.1496:

-snip-

The truth is that the fastest way to do dungeons isn’t by playing balanced builds but straight dps. Until anet increases overall difficulty level balanced builds won’t be as efficient as they should be.

Exactly. Your priorities are not necessarily the priorities of others, and therefore the game is not broken, you merely want to experience it a certain way. You cite efficiency as the key metric but you ignored the fact that other people use other metrics. A novice group often doesn’t care as much about speed as they do reliability; ensuring they finish the dungeon at all takes priority.

Thank you for illustrating my point. It would have made me feel a little better about it had you read my post and processed the content, but the illustration is all the more apt as a result.

To reiterate:

NOT EVERYBODY CARES ABOUT RUNNING DUNGEONS AS FAST AS POSSIBLE. IT IS NOT A DESIGN FLAW OR FAILING ON THE PART OF THE PLAYER TO VALUE HUMAN INTERACTION, LOOT OR OTHER FACTORS OVER BADGES-PER-HOUR.

Fildydarie.1496:

-snip-

Agreed, but this topic is about MF so I think that this applies to novice groups as well. Wearing MF gear on 1st trip into the abyss of new dungeon won’t give memorable experience (or rather it will). For further runs most people want to do it as fast as possible (skippers, exploiters, speedrunners) and balanced compositions are still not needed (until anet decides that dungs are currently too easy) to complete them without any trouble. Hence, if you are experienced and your team doesn’t care, you could wear MF gear.

Fildydarie.1496:

A novice group often doesn’t care as much about speed as they do reliability; ensuring they finish the dungeon at all takes priority.

Gee and I wonder who comes in crying about mobs having too much health/having to graveyard zerg.

Fact is, a sizeable portion of PVT believers are stubborn and aren’t open to trying out glass cannon in fear of dying and never really learn to play properly. You’re right tho, even though these parasitic players leech their Dungeon Master titles without learning any game mechanics we should respect them. dot dot dot.

Iehova.9518:

Sitael.4680:

Your opinion. Bad for you.

It’s a fact, son.

I’m not your son. And if i would be, it would mean you are deceased since a couple of years.
And if you are talking about facts, try to talk about things you know and not about thing you would like to know.

haviz.1340:

Players with full MF gear deal similiar damage to PVT. Hence, everyone who considers PVT gear not leeching should consider MF gear equal to PVT in terms of contributing. Plus, you get more shinies. Ergo, MF > PVT. Logical conclusion.

We may have different sight about PVT gear but i thought at least you know a bit about PVT. But after such a statement at this point i really have to ask you, if you know what are you talking about?
Do just some math on a full PVT and an full MF gear, you do not even come close to with MF to a PVT damage (take a look at some class skills to!). You can do more damage with PVT as with MF and have quite good chance to survive also some bad situations.

So please do not try to be such closed-minded, i think you do not need that.

Ethics.4519:

.

1) If I start dying too much then I’ll switch to PVT. I’ll also switch to PVT when I’m going to take some damage (I usually volunteer to kite the mobs on AC flooded temple).

2) For you to say I leech off my party cuz I use MF?

Ad 1) if you start dying it’ to late to change AND you can not chage weapons in fight with you ele, so what you are running is not a PVT gear but a mixed good-for-nothing at all.

Ad 2) Yes.

I use full PVT gear, I’m at level 31 fractals and I farm Arah regularly. I wouldn’t imagine using anything else.

Come at me bro.

Sitael.4680:

We may have different sight about PVT gear but i thought at least you know a bit about PVT. But after such a statement at this point i really have to ask you, if you know what are you talking about?
Do just some math on a full PVT and an full MF gear, you do not even come close to with MF to a PVT damage (take a look at some class skills to!). You can do more damage with PVT as with MF and have quite good chance to survive also some bad situations.

So please do not try to be such closed-minded, i think you do not need that.

The math is simple. PVT give more power but MF gives precision as well – full MF gives same crit chance as zerker (~35%). So, yeah I’m pretty sure you deal similiar damage.

PVT have synergy with sharpening stones/maintenaince oils.
MF don’t.

so, casual player in PVT + consumable does more demage then with mf, and have a higher threshold for mistakes.

and obviously players who do little to no mistakes perform better with berserkers gear.

Saulius.8430:

PVT have synergy with sharpening stones/maintenaince oils.
MF don’t.

so, casual player in PVT + consumable does more demage then with mf, and have a higher threshold for mistakes.

and obviously players who do little to no mistakes perform better with berserkers gear.

Potions are better than sharpening stones/maintenance oils. They are good in wvw though but no one would use MF in wvw. Plus, pots lessens damage you take.

Iehova.9518:

The facts are that PVT and MF gear is for leeching scum who cannot contribute to dungeon running at all and just asking for a piggyback, son.

How many times need to be told to you, that i’m not you son and that my father died a couple of years ago?
Please THINK about things you are posting even if you do not share the opinion of others!

People are missing the point of this thread entirely… I’m just trying to give a friendly tip how to benefit from MF while not being a burden on your team, and people are debating PVT? -.-

haviz.1340:

Sitael.4680:

We may have different sight about PVT gear but i thought at least you know a bit about PVT. But after such a statement at this point i really have to ask you, if you know what are you talking about?
Do just some math on a full PVT and an full MF gear, you do not even come close to with MF to a PVT damage (take a look at some class skills to!). You can do more damage with PVT as with MF and have quite good chance to survive also some bad situations.

So please do not try to be such closed-minded, i think you do not need that.

The math is simple. PVT give more power but MF gives precision as well – full MF gives same crit chance as zerker (~35%). So, yeah I’m pretty sure you deal similiar damage.

You simply forgot the % added to your crit damage. That little XX% before the precision in those berserk builds. If you have high critical chance when you do a critical you got a good increase in your damage, so NEVER a MF build will do DPS similar to a zerk build.

And like most said, PVT combo with consumibles = high DPS… MF don´t have a DPS consumible to combo.

evolverzilla.2359:

You simply forgot the % added to your crit damage. That little XX% before the precision in those berserk builds. If you have high critical chance when you do a critical you got a good increase in your damage, so NEVER a MF build will do DPS similar to a zerk build.

And like most said, PVT combo with consumibles = high DPS… MF don´t have a DPS consumible to combo.

I was comparing MF to PVT, not to zerker. So I didn’t forgot about anything

And like I’ve said, your consumable combo with PVT is worse than simple potions that work with every set.

Kain Francois.4328:

I’m just trying to give a friendly tip how to benefit from MF while not being a burden on your team, and people are debating PVT? -.-

Using MF in dungeons is being a burden on your team, period, end of the line, gg, etc.

its very aggrivating to be forced to switch gear due to bad design from the devs side -.-
magic find is a horrible stats to introduce as a stat which replaces another stat on gear for soooooooooooo many reasons there is no point in starting to state them here (personally i don’t even bother with using mfind gear, i just wanna have fun and aggrevating bad design i generally avoid when possible.)

Use w/e u want tbh.
A good player im mf will always be better then some noob with some other gear…

Wasabi Kitty.8247:

I use full PVT gear, I’m at level 31 fractals and I farm Arah regularly. I wouldn’t imagine using anything else.

Come at me bro.

right on, brother.
i’m at lvl 41 fractals and i run pvt gear and switch between knight/berzerker/cleric accessories as needed.

I’d be very impressed to see a lvl 30+ fractal guardian running a full berzerker. very impressed indeed.

all those elitist berzerker kids have to realise that not every profession is created equal. some professions have better escape abilities then the others. it is much easier to be a berzerker warrior then it is to be a berzerker guardian.
besides, aegis is a single most powerful thing a guardian can provide to a group. i’d rather have my guardian alive and well and giving out aegis then dead of a ground in his shinny zerker gear getting all dusty.

case closed, my pretties.

p.s. MF gear should be removed as such. it is a bad design choice. MF should have come as consumables only, temporary boosts…

Why would a guardian run zerker to begin with, my good man?

It seems to me that there really isn’t a downside to using magic find in the Jade Maw fight, at least. Even with 0 defensive stats, you shouldn’t be going down to the elementals/tentacles, and Maw himself ignores all of your stats, period. Might as well just get some extra chances at lodestones. The magic find gear gives enough offense to deal with the elementals/tentacles.

MF gear is just bad game design and reason for autokick in dungeons. crapy dps, lack of surv, this gear just plain sucks and should be just removed.

Noob question: What is PVT gear? I cannot figure it out. I would think Knight and Valkyrie would be considered PVT gear but someone said Knight’s what’s PVT. So what is PVT gear given that I know of no insignia that gives both vitality and toughness.

That’s Soldier gear, which cannot be crafted.

Tinni.4351:

Noob question: What is PVT gear? I cannot figure it out. I would think Knight and Valkyrie would be considered PVT gear but someone said Knight’s what’s PVT. So what is PVT gear given that I know of no insignia that gives both vitality and toughness.

PVT stands for Power Vitality Toughness, a.k.a. soldiers gear, or some dungeon like AC gear.