Guild Wars 2

can someone explain why you decided to remove respawning during combat in dungeons? just did a run of AC with 5 level 80, and its near impossible, with us nerfed even more than before and with healing nerfed, it seems that you’ve made it near impossible for anyone to complete dungeons. we’re five fully geared level 80s, i have no doubt in my mind that people who are at the level the dungeon requires will struggle even more than us.

Because it should have been that way in the first place. It’s a crutch that encourages people to hit a waypoint and do it all again instead of actually learning to play.

In fairness, there are some dungeon bosses who are nearly impossible to complete without dying at least once (I’m looking at you subject alpha!).

I’m usually happy if I can down subject alpha’s final form with “only 1 death”, and I’m usually the longest surviving member of the party by a long shot, I’ve known people rez 7 or 8 times in that fight – it’s not like you can just field-rez people in that fight because if you stand still you’ll end up on the floor with them and then everyone dies.

Rez-rushing is a HORRIBLE mechanic, and I’ll be happy to see it removed but they need to be VERY CAREFUL and make sure they rebalance the hell out the dungeons to match. Finding players for CoE is like pulling teeth because subject alpha is already a hair pullingly frustrating fight for most people and classes; making it so dead-is-dead will increase the difficulty factor 7 or 8 fold.

Ryuujin.8236:

In fairness, there are some dungeon bosses who are nearly impossible to complete without dying at least once (I’m looking at you subject alpha!).

I’m usually happy if I can down subject alpha’s final form with “only 1 death”, and I’m usually the longest surviving member of the party by a long shot, I’ve known people rez 7 or 8 times in that fight – it’s not like you can just field-rez people in that fight because if you stand still you’ll end up on the floor with them and then everyone dies.

Rez-rushing is a HORRIBLE mechanic, and I’ll be happy to see it removed but they need to be VERY CAREFUL and make sure they rebalance the hell out the dungeons to match. Finding players for CoE is like pulling teeth because subject alpha is already a hair pullingly frustrating fight for most people and classes; making it so dead-is-dead will increase the difficulty factor 7 or 8 fold.

He’s not that hard… and now he’s easier with lower health. Almost impossible? really…

One way they could fix it, without taking away the difficulty, would be to have it that dungeon mobs will only focus on players that are still up, rather than attacking a player that is down. This way, the down player has a chance to rally and get back into the fight and not die. Also in the same time, decrease the priority for the mobs to attack a player that is reviving someone, having them first go after the ones that are attacking.

The attack order of the mobs could be:
Any Player or pet who deals over 10% damage in one hit
Players and pets in close combat
Players who are not attacking, but running around near it
Players and pets who are attacking in by range
Those who are reviving someone
Those who are down and trying to rally

Everybody always takes Alpha as an example, i wlways lol at that. He is soooooo easy once you figure him out (either from other’s, wiki or your own kitten brains). After he puts AoE down, count to 2, DODGE. that’s it, oh and go melee, he won’t target you all the time with his dragon tooth then.

I can only imagine the sheer horror waiting for those that are still farming shards at Arah. I’m so happy i just got my set and dont have to see Lupi’s face for a while. Maigod Lupi..people are going to pop blood vessels getting past him. RIP X_X

LoL So, first Fractal run after the patch. Got through the Ice one… took ages. Not so bad. Got to the Dredge. Not so bad again. Until you get to the Ice Man Cometh at the end. It’s ridiculously hard now. Not only that, for the unwary, there’s a bug with the AR.

Edit: Also, I notice, not one rare from any chest or drop the whole time.

I have 2 infused rings and a backpack. 25AR. Notice in the area behind the ring stats though. The AR says 5, even though I’m wearing them all. Have to re-equip them.

There are times when the designers are from a different planet, or might not really be in touch with the game they designed. I’ve played many MMOs and GW2 dungeons are the most out-of-sync of any game I’ve ever played. They are nowhere near the level noted for the quest, not even close. I don’t mind “hard”, in fact, I enjoy the challenge…but the dungeons are so unbalanced, they are not really fun to do. This new change is quite frankly, following right in the footsteps of equally insidious designs. In most fights, it is also virtually impossible to rez anyone due to how long it takes (another mentioned that in their post), and the amount of AoE damage spewed forth by the encounter. I can only think that the game designers are thinking of some other game than the one we have to play, or are just flat out of touch. Tis a sad day in MMOville due to that.

…if the dungeons actually had waypoints. Seriously, even if the whole party wipes, having to go back through half the dungeon is just too much.

You guys didn’t read the blog. This is Phase 1 of the changes. In Phase 2 coming later they will make further adjustments to these encounters.

Read the blog about dungeons posted today in the News section.

I have to agree there. I mean, now that we can’t abuse them can’t we have like ONE waypoint in Twilight Arbor? Just one? Please? I mean the way it’s laid out why even give us an anvil?

Oh you have to run back for 3minutes? Big deal. Its a low punishment for wiping. I think wiping should cause the dungeon to fail so you have to restart completly.

Malediktus.9250:

Oh you have to run back for 3minutes? Big deal. Its a low punishment for wiping. I think wiping should cause the dungeon to fail so you have to restart completly.

Good thing you aren’t the one in charge of decisions about the game then.

If you did that GW2 would lose a pretty big portion of the player base in the first week.

One of the devs said not too many days ago something along the lines of: when originally designing, the number of waypoints had to be limited to discourage using them over staying together, and now that a new solution is in place, the devs want to take another look and increase the number of waypoints.

It’s already in their minds.

Robert Hrouda.1327:

I do intend on putting more waypoints into dungeons, but due to the work required for this upcoming patch we didn’t get enough time to make it happen.
I’m not a fan of “punishment running” wherein your punishment for failing is having to run a long distance back to the fight. To discourage res rushing potential we went initially with fewer waypoints. Now that we are implementing a new tech, I would like to add more to reduce the time spent running back to an objective.
We have more info coming soon to how the system will be working.

DeathPanel.8362:

Malediktus.9250:

Oh you have to run back for 3minutes? Big deal. Its a low punishment for wiping. I think wiping should cause the dungeon to fail so you have to restart completly.

Good thing you aren’t the one in charge of decisions about the game then.

If you did that GW2 would lose a pretty big portion of the player base in the first week.

Explorer dungeons are the elite areas of GW2. When you failed elite areas in GW1 you had to start over. Much better back then.
And its funny when people threaten to quit because they failed something. They should man up and get better. Its not like theres anything challanging in this game currently.

Malediktus.9250:

Oh you have to run back for 3minutes? Big deal. Its a low punishment for wiping. I think wiping should cause the dungeon to fail so you have to restart completly.

The Joseph Stalin of MMO development. NO DUNGEON FOR YOU!

This was addressed by the devs in a previous post. They intend to add more waypoints to compensate. The small amount of waypoints was to counteract res rushing, which is no longer an issue. Idk when they plan to implement it, but I know they do.

Malediktus.9250:

DeathPanel.8362:

Malediktus.9250:

Oh you have to run back for 3minutes? Big deal. Its a low punishment for wiping. I think wiping should cause the dungeon to fail so you have to restart completly.

Good thing you aren’t the one in charge of decisions about the game then.

If you did that GW2 would lose a pretty big portion of the player base in the first week.

Explorer dungeons are the elite areas of GW2. When you failed elite areas in GW1 you had to start over. Much better back then.
And its funny when people threaten to quit because they failed something. They should man up and get better. Its not like theres anything challanging in this game currently.

However elite zones in GW1 allowed you to respawn your allies when they were full dead. With skills. At a range. One of which moved them away, allowing you to escape a wipe if one of your players with those rez skills got away. The situations are a little different ;p

Tera GX.8149:

One of the devs said not too many days ago something along the lines of: when originally designing, the number of waypoints had to be limited to discourage using them over staying together, and now that a new solution is in place, the devs want to take another look and increase the number of waypoints.

It’s already in their minds.

Good post, thanks for relaying that message. Hopefully that’ll calm some people down.

On another note, if you failed a dungeon in GW1 you had to restart the whole thing. And you had to PAY to enter those. Lol good times

Zenyatoo.4059:

Malediktus.9250:

DeathPanel.8362:

Malediktus.9250:

Oh you have to run back for 3minutes? Big deal. Its a low punishment for wiping. I think wiping should cause the dungeon to fail so you have to restart completly.

Good thing you aren’t the one in charge of decisions about the game then.

If you did that GW2 would lose a pretty big portion of the player base in the first week.

Explorer dungeons are the elite areas of GW2. When you failed elite areas in GW1 you had to start over. Much better back then.
And its funny when people threaten to quit because they failed something. They should man up and get better. Its not like theres anything challanging in this game currently.

However elite zones in GW1 allowed you to respawn your allies when they were full dead. With skills. At a range. One of which moved them away, allowing you to escape a wipe if one of your players with those rez skills got away. The situations are a little different ;p

I agree with you and the quoted text. If people are gonna quit because they suck and needed to zerg to be “pro” at the game, then let them quit (which they likely won’t anyway). At the same time I do agree that the games are very different and lead to very different situations.

Agreed, the ability to use rebirth saved many an ELITE team. who were elite enough to know they were going to need it (remember tombs? my old guild did that run in under 20 mins, did we need ressing? hell yes we wiped sometimes from an accidental overpull, but 1 guy with rebirth and bingo, back in the game). The ability to respawn should at worst be timed, say if you’re downed you can use a wp after 1 min just add a timer on screen “you have died: your spirit is charging power to waypoint in 45,44,43…”. Thats a hella long time to be laying there but better than a wipe. fractals is fractals, its an endless dungeon for those that want endless grinding, dungeons are there for those who don’t have exotics to get the awesome cool flamed sword/chest they’ve always wanted. Don’t make everything mirror fractals because its “cool” to a certain crowd.

“res-rushing” That’s so funny. Invent a problem to solve it. There are so many other little problems in the game – “we’re so busy with the [changes] we’ll get to those…” The mere fact this game repopulates cleared dungeons on you means there’s no rushing back, regardless.

If it took a group to get to the “scene of the wipe” how can one person make it all the way back in a repopulated dungeon to rez the rest? Preposterous. For the life of me I’m still trying to imagine this “problem” as a problem…res-rushing…who in their right mind would….Oh yes…it’s the 21st Century. “If it ain’t broke, fix it anyway then tell everybody how smart you are.”

Set aside for a moment that wiping, sometimes several times, in particularly challenging instances is TRADITION… Ignore the fact that instances lock so ridiculous amounts of time it takes to handle truly challenging instances can be parcelled out in smaller chunks of time to accomodate things like REAL LIFE… (Don’t restate the obvious that instances cleared to a point stay cleared so the ridiculous amounts of time don’t have to be continually repeated making it IMPOSSIBLE to schedule blocks of time and everyone still managing to make it to work, school or their daughter’s wedding…) But, RES-RUSHING????

I’m sure whomever coined the term feels very clever. Now, like the intelligent people we’re supposed to be, let’s just wipe it off the whiteboard and turn our attention to things that do exist like – dynamic events that are stuck all over a zone (including landsharks?) Bosses that reset for no particular reason…how long a list do you need? Advanced gathering tools that produce trash regardless… Res Rushing.

It was my most fervent HOPE that this team of devs isn’t so petty, unimaginative and (apparently) unsupervised as to ignore real problems and invent ones to solve…oh yes…See: Legendary Weapons – the “no grind, ain’t we havin’ fun now?” innovation.

I can agree with Fractals being the elite stuff… But the other exp dungeons are basically necessary to get geared so you can do WvW and Fractals.
With the no WPing during combat it gets boring quick if you die early on in a boss battle, which does happen to even the best of us… especially if we dont play a tanky build. Just now I spent 10 minutes lying facedown due to the boss of CoF 3 focussing me down, which takes about 2 hits on my necro if I dont have Death Shroud ready.
Bolas – Hammerthrow – Banish = dead.
Not to mention that the whole “being in combat” is buggy as hell. Basically being anywhere you take damage is counted as being in combat at some places, like in lava, or the bomb run tunnel of CoF 3.

Not to mention that dungeons in this game are pretty kitten hard if not running with the optimum classes. Not to mention that you have to do them 20 times to get the gear you want, even if that just happens to be a skin.

It would seem Anet looked over the stats and saw too many wins, they decided as most mmo’s do, that too many wins is bad. Players happy, is bad. Make it harder, Devs Happy, players go elsewhere. EVERY MMO I have played does this.

From the heart, whomever thought this was a good idea, take away their decision making abilities. I’m serious, do it now.

dusts off lightsaber

I really thought Anet was different. Guess not. Strike 1.
“Pages Jeff Strain”

Malediktus.9250:

Oh you have to run back for 3minutes? Big deal. Its a low punishment for wiping. I think wiping should cause the dungeon to fail so you have to restart completly.

Too weak. I think wiping should uninstall the game and format your hard disk.

You really think you would be playing the game still then? When just trying to get a hang of a new dungeon, wiping and being forced to redo everything?
With no aggro management skills and no dedicated healers just trying out a new dungeon can be quite a pain.
There are plenty of people who play casually and just for fun, not to be the leetest of the nerds so you can run around bragging about something that just has no use outside of this game.

Account.9832:

Malediktus.9250:

Oh you have to run back for 3minutes? Big deal. Its a low punishment for wiping. I think wiping should cause the dungeon to fail so you have to restart completly.

Too weak. I think wiping should uninstall the game and format your hard disk.

i agree but it should also install a virus that will blow up your computer.

Lithuen.9067:

“res-rushing” That’s so funny. Invent a problem to solve it. There are so many other little problems in the game – “we’re so busy with the [changes] we’ll get to those…” The mere fact this game repopulates cleared dungeons on you means there’s no rushing back, regardless.

If it took a group to get to the “scene of the wipe” how can one person make it all the way back in a repopulated dungeon to rez the rest? Preposterous. For the life of me I’m still trying to imagine this “problem” as a problem…res-rushing…who in their right mind would….Oh yes…it’s the 21st Century. “If it ain’t broke, fix it anyway then tell everybody how smart you are.”

Hahaha, I like how you ignored the actual problems of dungeons, focused on a coined term, gave the term a misinterpreted definition and proceed to break down your incorrect definition.

Res-rushing has nothing to do with rushing back to ‘the scene of the wipe’ and rezzing everyone but ‘rushing’ back to the boss and tagging them either before they reset or before the team kills them and you don’t get a reward off its corpse.

it looks like the way the dungeons are set up now, necro is a must have. I am using full exotic and right now messing with support skill combos, so if you need a run, whisp me and if im not busy i should be able to help.

If the dungeon is below level 80, then i will need some payment :p

Gone are the days 5 warriors is all it takes to clear a dungeon.

“Polished dungeons and removed the ability to use waypoints while any player is in combat.”
This has done nothing but destroy the dungeons (especially with PUGS) as it only takes one silly mistake and the whole dungeon becomes annoying rather than fun. Why they were changed is beyond me, they were much more enjoyable as they were (apart from bugs).
Just seems as if it was done just for the sake of it, with no plausible reason. Makes fighting some bosses ridiculously hard and unenjoyable (Subject Alpha and Giganticus being the worst).

Instead of changing stuff that does not need changing, How about adding some new content to the game………..

this i agree with however they delete all the posts i make about this subject so a bit of advice be careful about posting this

The explorable dungeons are supposed to be “face meltingly hard”, people gotten used to mindless playstyle and not learning the fights and even mechanics of their classes properly, hardly can you put all the blame on the developers in my opinion.

Players in the current GW2 dungeons are spoiled, simple as that. Tell me one game where getting through by dying over and over again is meant to be a proper mechanic in an encounter?

And regarding new content, now about not trying to prove your point by simply ignoring everything else? From what i can tell probably in 3 hours you can put on your quaggan backpack and help the norn and charr in Wayfarer Foothiss or Dessia Platue because their homeland is attack by possibly minions of Jormag and Primordus? Now there are some more casual and managable and, oh, NEW, content for you.

So people still haven’t gotten around the fact that explorable dungeons are suppose to be hard eh? fascinating

Ragion.2831:

Gone are the days 5 warriors is all it takes to clear a dungeon.

Good!

I really don’t understand the problem. Dungeons were supposed to be hard, before they were released it was stated in countless video’s by Anet that story modes are for everyone and the explorable modes are for experienced teams. The fact dungeons such as AC became a PuG joke actually disappointed me since it went completely against what ANET had stated before hand.

Dungeons like AC are still a joke btw, I really don’t get which part people are now wiping on? The downed mechanic is there for a reason, revive people when they’re downed. Take to much damage? Just have someone with anti-projectile support you, or area blinds, area weakness, immunity, stability – There are traits and Runes designed around getting people up – just assign someone that fundamental role in your party.

What if you don’t get someone like that in a PuG? Well tough – That’s the risk you run with a PuG. Again I point to Anets initial design statements, explorable s weren’t for PuG’s and were never intended for PuG’s from the get go… Go watch some of their AC preview video’s from before beta weekends – Designed specifically mention the words “Guilds” “Organised”….

You wouldn’t have expected to PuG endgame raid content in other games that are designed for guilds. Well that’s what GW2 explorables were SUPPOSED to be >.<

And statements like “Play the game how you want to play” have been taken completely out of context as well. Yes, they said a Dungeon should be able to be ran with 5 of the same profession. But they never said 5 Beserker geared warriors. They were continuously saying how there was a new trinity involving damage mitigation, control and support. You could choose your class and you could choose your role, 5 of the same role were probably going to fail. They said that from the get go too!

Explorables SHOULD need an organised group of different players forfilling different roles. It was in their initial release designs and we’re finally getting back to that challenge they promised in the first instance…

if they realy wanted to gain players ROLL THE PATCH BACK FOR DUNGEONS!

Jzl.8715:

The explorable dungeons are supposed to be “face meltingly hard”, people gotten used to mindless playstyle and not learning the fights and even mechanics of their classes properly, hardly can you put all the blame on the developers in my opinion.

Players in the current GW2 dungeons are spoiled, simple as that. Tell me one game where getting through by dying over and over again is meant to be a proper mechanic in an encounter?

And regarding new content, now about not trying to prove your point by simply ignoring everything else? From what i can tell probably in 3 hours you can put on your quaggan backpack and help the norn and charr in Wayfarer Foothiss or Dessia Platue because their homeland is attack by possibly minions of Jormag and Primordus? Now there are some more casual and managable and, oh, NEW, content for you.

So people still haven’t gotten around the fact that explorable dungeons are suppose to be hard eh? fascinating

you fail stop trying to justify the new changes and just admit things were better as they were

Sages.3496:

if they realy wanted to gain players ROLL THE PATCH BACK FOR DUNGEONS!

I would be surprised if the comments like this with pure biased personal opinion not at all fully backed up by logic or statistics not being removed.

Not sure why so many “casual” players are raging at this. You don’t have to be a hardcore player to res downed party members. Only skills you need are ability to know which direction to run to and how to press the F key on your keyboard. This update should only be affecting those who never bothered to res (i.e. CoF1 farmers).

I mean let’s face it, it takes a tremendous amount of fail to wipe in a generic dungeon and have to start over (and you don’t even have to restart the whole dungeon). Back in GW1 when your HP ran out you were finished. Here you only go into a downed state which is like second chance to survive. We are given boons, traits, utility skills, and even environmental advantage in some cases to help get party members back on their feet again. How much easier do you want this game to get?

“hi mr smith lets get started on that lung transplant today shall we, we will just get rid of that old one now, sometime in the future we will get the new one put it sorry for the inconvienece” sounds pretty stupid huh

Sages.3496:

Jzl.8715:

The explorable dungeons are supposed to be “face meltingly hard”, people gotten used to mindless playstyle and not learning the fights and even mechanics of their classes properly, hardly can you put all the blame on the developers in my opinion.

Players in the current GW2 dungeons are spoiled, simple as that. Tell me one game where getting through by dying over and over again is meant to be a proper mechanic in an encounter?

And regarding new content, now about not trying to prove your point by simply ignoring everything else? From what i can tell probably in 3 hours you can put on your quaggan backpack and help the norn and charr in Wayfarer Foothiss or Dessia Platue because their homeland is attack by possibly minions of Jormag and Primordus? Now there are some more casual and managable and, oh, NEW, content for you.

So people still haven’t gotten around the fact that explorable dungeons are suppose to be hard eh? fascinating

you fail stop trying to justify the new changes and just admit things were better as they were

I definitely can be convinced, but you sir have yet to establish any sort of credibility. All the post you have made on this forum is in this post, which thus far consists of 3 posts each containing 1 sentence of around 10 words or so. I have seen many better written and well thought posts regarding the casual players matter and yes, guess what, I can actual see their argument and concerns. Forgive me, I don’t really know how to react to mindless shouting

Jzl.8715:

Sages.3496:

if they realy wanted to gain players ROLL THE PATCH BACK FOR DUNGEONS!

I would be surprised if the comments like this with pure biased personal opinion not at all fully backed up by logic or statistics not being removed.

look at how many people are kitten off about this change then look at your stupid comments. this change will impact this game regardless of what you think. this makes it realy hard to play dungeons anymore. go do ac explore and tell me you can beat kholer without dying and the boss resetting over and over with newbies. then come post here!

the whole not being able to res while party is in combat is stupid
coz you can’t res in these dungeons in combat, you just can’t
i’m here at magg p2 defend and the constant flood of mobs doesn’t give us a second of rest so if one of us goes, we all go

Now seems like players need hands and not only gear ;D

Good job anet!

Dungeons are still too easy. Make them harder. Punish wipes with dungeon reset like in GW1 elite areas.

Sages.3496:

Jzl.8715:

Sages.3496:

if they realy wanted to gain players ROLL THE PATCH BACK FOR DUNGEONS!

I would be surprised if the comments like this with pure biased personal opinion not at all fully backed up by logic or statistics not being removed.

look at how many people are kitten off about this change then look at your stupid comments. this change will impact this game regardless of what you think. this makes it realy hard to play dungeons anymore. go do ac explore and tell me you can beat kholer without dying and the boss resetting over and over with newbies. then come post here!

I’m just mindblown.. totally, the lack of evidence, the lack of well thought arguments, the biased and contrived imaginary scenarios. An now that you brought Kholer back into the fray again I guess there will be a lot more people in the following comments will respond to you. I think I’ll just leave the others to deal with you while I head out to lunch. Wow, just wow

Jzl.8715:

Sages.3496:

Jzl.8715:

The explorable dungeons are supposed to be “face meltingly hard”, people gotten used to mindless playstyle and not learning the fights and even mechanics of their classes properly, hardly can you put all the blame on the developers in my opinion.

Players in the current GW2 dungeons are spoiled, simple as that. Tell me one game where getting through by dying over and over again is meant to be a proper mechanic in an encounter?

And regarding new content, now about not trying to prove your point by simply ignoring everything else? From what i can tell probably in 3 hours you can put on your quaggan backpack and help the norn and charr in Wayfarer Foothiss or Dessia Platue because their homeland is attack by possibly minions of Jormag and Primordus? Now there are some more casual and managable and, oh, NEW, content for you.

So people still haven’t gotten around the fact that explorable dungeons are suppose to be hard eh? fascinating

you fail stop trying to justify the new changes and just admit things were better as they were

I definitely can be convinced, but you sir have yet to establish any sort of credibility. All the post you have made on this forum is in this post, which thus far consists of 3 posts each containing 1 sentence of around 10 words or so. I have seen many better written and well thought posts regarding the casual players matter and yes, guess what, I can actual see their argument and concerns. Forgive me, I don’t really know how to react to mindless shouting

if you are so elite go try this and teach people how its done.

Sages.3496:

Jzl.8715:

Sages.3496:

if they realy wanted to gain players ROLL THE PATCH BACK FOR DUNGEONS!

I would be surprised if the comments like this with pure biased personal opinion not at all fully backed up by logic or statistics not being removed.

look at how many people are kitten off about this change then look at your stupid comments. this change will impact this game regardless of what you think. this makes it realy hard to play dungeons anymore. go do ac explore and tell me you can beat kholer without dying and the boss resetting over and over with newbies. then come post here!

What exactly is so bad about Kholer? Literally all of his attacks give you incredibly long time frame to prepare for. He’s just hard if you are one of those people who are smashing their faces into the keyboard during the fight…

Kaede.1267:

Sages.3496:

Jzl.8715:

Sages.3496:

if they realy wanted to gain players ROLL THE PATCH BACK FOR DUNGEONS!

I would be surprised if the comments like this with pure biased personal opinion not at all fully backed up by logic or statistics not being removed.

look at how many people are kitten off about this change then look at your stupid comments. this change will impact this game regardless of what you think. this makes it realy hard to play dungeons anymore. go do ac explore and tell me you can beat kholer without dying and the boss resetting over and over with newbies. then come post here!

What exactly is so bad about Kholer? Literally all of his attacks give you incredibly long time frame to prepare for. He’s just hard if you are one of those people who are smashing their faces into the keyboard during the fight…

newbies dont know the mechs of him therefore alot of them may not want to play dungeons anymore

Sages.3496:

newbies dont know the mechs of him therefore alot of them may not want to play dungeons anymore

You wipe, that means you failed. Time to rethink you current strategy and improve. Shouldn’t that be obvious?