WTF did you do to fractals?
There are two achievements.
Completing 100CM
Completing 100CM without anyone dying in the whole fractal (downed is fine afaik)
There are two achievements.
Completing 100CM
Completing 100CM without anyone dying in the whole fractal (downed is fine afaik)
100 CM is not that tough (completed 2 days ago), the issue atm is Arkk which has way too much stuff going on at the same time, he should get fixed so people have more time to react.
They could at least give better rewards for completing lvl100 fractal.
It’s better for me to do lvl40 2 times then to waste 45 minutes on lvl100 and get the same rewards as for the other t4 fractals.
I guess this time effort is not rewarded, so disappointing.I think given time and practice with the mechanics, the clear times on the new one will go down. Remember how long pugs took in Nightmare when it first came out as opposed to now? Or even Man Trin?
Well, to be honest Mai Trin done on completely core classes/statsets would likely be also way more annoying than most players are used to nowadays. Just getting a druid in group significantly decreases that fight’s difficulty.
Actions, not words.
Remember, remember, 15th of November
Remember, remember, 15th of November
They could at least give better rewards for completing lvl100 fractal.
It’s better for me to do lvl40 2 times then to waste 45 minutes on lvl100 and get the same rewards as for the other t4 fractals.
I guess this time effort is not rewarded, so disappointing.I think given time and practice with the mechanics, the clear times on the new one will go down. Remember how long pugs took in Nightmare when it first came out as opposed to now? Or even Man Trin?
Well, to be honest Mai Trin done on completely core classes/statsets would likely be also way more annoying than most players are used to nowadays. Just getting a druid in group significantly decreases that fight’s difficulty.
Well ofc, but im sure that they are balancing dificulty rn nased on elite soecs so pretty much should be the same.
They could at least give better rewards for completing lvl100 fractal.
It’s better for me to do lvl40 2 times then to waste 45 minutes on lvl100 and get the same rewards as for the other t4 fractals.
I guess this time effort is not rewarded, so disappointing.I think given time and practice with the mechanics, the clear times on the new one will go down. Remember how long pugs took in Nightmare when it first came out as opposed to now? Or even Man Trin?
Well, to be honest Mai Trin done on completely core classes/statsets would likely be also way more annoying than most players are used to nowadays. Just getting a druid in group significantly decreases that fight’s difficulty.
Well ofc, but im sure that they are balancing dificulty rn nased on elite soecs so pretty much should be the same.
I really doubt that they’re rebalancing the old fractals’ difficulty, unless the fractal itself goes through major rework (like it happened to swamp and snowblind). The specific fractal mentioned (Mai Trin), did not get rebalanced for elite specs.
Actions, not words.
Remember, remember, 15th of November
Remember, remember, 15th of November
They could at least give better rewards for completing lvl100 fractal.
It’s better for me to do lvl40 2 times then to waste 45 minutes on lvl100 and get the same rewards as for the other t4 fractals.
I guess this time effort is not rewarded, so disappointing.I think given time and practice with the mechanics, the clear times on the new one will go down. Remember how long pugs took in Nightmare when it first came out as opposed to now? Or even Man Trin?
Well, to be honest Mai Trin done on completely core classes/statsets would likely be also way more annoying than most players are used to nowadays. Just getting a druid in group significantly decreases that fight’s difficulty.
Well ofc, but im sure that they are balancing dificulty rn nased on elite soecs so pretty much should be the same.
I really doubt that they’re rebalancing the old fractals’ difficulty, unless the fractal itself goes through major rework (like it happened to swamp and snowblind). The specific fractal mentioned (Mai Trin), did not get rebalanced for elite specs.
Well neither snowblind nor swampland got reworked because of elite specs. They god reworked because they the boring ad unengaging without mechanics. And of mechanics bring an up in dificulty.
You dont need to rework entire encounters for elite specs since elite specs didnt bring anything that didnt exist in the game before. They just brought more of it therefor number buffs was what was needed.
Like with solid ocean ofc they wont rework it because i cant handle elite specs they will rework it because the whole fractal is terrible.
They could at least give better rewards for completing lvl100 fractal.
It’s better for me to do lvl40 2 times then to waste 45 minutes on lvl100 and get the same rewards as for the other t4 fractals.
I guess this time effort is not rewarded, so disappointing.I think given time and practice with the mechanics, the clear times on the new one will go down. Remember how long pugs took in Nightmare when it first came out as opposed to now? Or even Man Trin?
Well, to be honest Mai Trin done on completely core classes/statsets would likely be also way more annoying than most players are used to nowadays. Just getting a druid in group significantly decreases that fight’s difficulty.
Well ofc, but im sure that they are balancing dificulty rn nased on elite soecs so pretty much should be the same.
I really doubt that they’re rebalancing the old fractals’ difficulty, unless the fractal itself goes through major rework (like it happened to swamp and snowblind). The specific fractal mentioned (Mai Trin), did not get rebalanced for elite specs.
Well neither snowblind nor swampland got reworked because of elite specs. They god reworked because they the boring ad unengaging without mechanics. And of mechanics bring an up in dificulty.
You dont need to rework entire encounters for elite specs since elite specs didnt bring anything that didnt exist in the game before. They just brought more of it therefor number buffs was what was needed.
Like with solid ocean ofc they wont rework it because i cant handle elite specs they will rework it because the whole fractal is terrible.
…yes, that’s what i was saying. Most of the fractals weren’t brought up to the difficulty level balanced around elite specs at all. For the others that rebalance was just coincidental – a side effect of rework that was done for other reasons.
Thus, most of the fractals, when run with a group using current meta builds, are significantly easier than they were before HoT.
(and i happen to like Jade Maw as it is now, so no reworks please)
Actions, not words.
Remember, remember, 15th of November
Remember, remember, 15th of November
I feel you, OP. I used to love doing dungeons and fractals, but post-HoT it’s become challenging to find group content. It’s unfortunate that some of us are getting grandfathered out of the game because of raids.
Proud disabled gamer. Not everyone has the capacity to git gud.
Even though I have yet to do this new fractal I can agree with the OP and other concerned fractal players. Unlike raids, fractals should be any class, and puggable. There shouldn’t be meta builds like in raids. I’ve noticed that fractals – after doing Nightmare(CM) and Chaos to a degree – are getting closer to raid-lite(or heavy).
ANeT, like dungeons are completely different from fractals, fractals should be completely different from raids. Unless you’re going to start making legendary armor available through fractals. And as stated in the guildwiki – Fractals are supposed to be a mini-dungeon. They are getting closer and closer to raids.
From Guildwiki:
Fractal Definition: Fractals of the Mists is a special type of dungeon that consists of an array of mini-dungeons called fractals, where each fractal has its own story and environment. The dungeon has some unique mechanics and design.
Raid definition: Raids are 10 player squad-based PvE instances focusing on challenging combat and mechanics, designed for level 80 characters. Each raid encounter typically utilises multiple phases with several unique mechanics, which test your squad’s coordination, damage output and positioning. Many encounters include an enrage timer: if the encounter isn’t finished by the time it runs out, the incoming damage will greatly increase. Certain masteries may also be required for some encounters to complete.
Dungeon: Dungeons are optional party-based PvE instances, each with their own story. There are currently nine dungeons. All dungeons except Fractals of the Mists and the special event dungeons have two modes: a story mode, which focuses on the story of the Destiny’s Edge group, and an explorable mode, a more difficult mode which requires more co-ordination to play through and is unlocked after completing story mode. Each mode allows for groups of up to five players; content does not scale depending on the number of players in the party so the difficulty remains constant.
Leader of Central Anime(CA)
Tifa Ran/Ranger with a Pet
Commander WvW – Henge of Denravi
Tifa Ran/Ranger with a Pet
Commander WvW – Henge of Denravi
Even though I have yet to do this new fractal I can agree with the OP and other concerned fractal players. Unlike raids, fractals should be any class, and puggable.
Really though, raids can be done by any class and are puggable—it’s the community that makes it so meta-centric, not anet. I mean the same could even be said about dungeons and how the dungeon elitists will be like, “If yer not running berserkers you’re wasting everyone’s time.” Although, dungeonscensters HAVE chilled out a lot since nobody cares about them anymore.
Even though I have yet to do this new fractal I can agree with the OP and other concerned fractal players. Unlike raids, fractals should be any class, and puggable.
Really though, raids can be done by any class and are puggable—it’s the community that makes it so meta-centric, not anet. I mean the same could even be said about dungeons and how the dungeon elitists will be like, “If yer not running berserkers you’re wasting everyone’s time.” Although, dungeonscensters HAVE chilled out a lot since nobody cares about them anymore.
The dungeon elitists back then were mostly speed runners. The berserker builds had nothing to do with actually being successful in the dungeon. But when ANeT removed the money incentive that speed running dungeons was built around the dungeon elitists began to disappear.
The builds for raids however are meant to deal with the speed at which you need to defeat the boss. ANeT created this little thing called an enrage timer to create an artificial difficulty level. Instead of a boss fight that any class could enter and take down the boss in an enjoyable fight, you need to DPS the kitten out of the bosses or you die due to the enrage timer or the instant death timer.
As for fractals, they were meant to be quick mini-dungeons. But they have recently been edging closer to raid-like.
Leader of Central Anime(CA)
Tifa Ran/Ranger with a Pet
Commander WvW – Henge of Denravi
Tifa Ran/Ranger with a Pet
Commander WvW – Henge of Denravi
The dungeon elitists back then were mostly speed runners. The berserker builds had nothing to do with actually being successful in the dungeon. But when ANeT removed the money incentive that speed running dungeons was built around the dungeon elitists began to disappear.
The builds for raids however are meant to deal with the speed at which you need to defeat the boss. ANeT created this little thing called an enrage timer to create an artificial difficulty level. Instead of a boss fight that any class could enter and take down the boss in an enjoyable fight, you need to DPS the kitten out of the bosses or you die due to the enrage timer or the instant death timer.
As for fractals, they were meant to be quick mini-dungeons. But they have recently been edging closer to raid-like.
I have a couple of problems with this line of thinking. First and foremost. Stop lying about enrage timers. enrage timers are difficulty, nothing artificial about them. No level of mechanic, no matter how difficult, cannot be made easier by stopping, taking a step back, and chilling out for a moment before it happens. Or, even worse, by taking 10 people in nomads gear and ignoring all mechanics. The whole point of enrage timers is to force people to do the mechanics while still playing their class well, without cheesing it out through overly tanky kitten.
The second thing, all classes have the capability to beat enrage timers if played well. The enrage timers in this game are all super casual. There is a problem in that some classes increase team DPS by such a ridiculous margin that they are considered necessary, and that kittening sucks, but once those spots are filled, everyone can do it.
And the third, perhaps most important thing? Fractals don’t have them. It will be harder if it takes longer, and therefore you should be good at the game and have good gear, but taking a healer or something to make it easier is allowed. You will still be able to do it.
Also, I reject the notion that fractals should be minidungeons. They should just be dungeons. They were minidungeons because a full fractal was 4 put together. The problem with fractals isn’t Shattered is too long, although I do think nothing should ever be made longer then it. Its that molten duo and solid ocean and stuff like that is way too short.
Even though I have yet to do this new fractal I can agree with the OP and other concerned fractal players. Unlike raids, fractals should be any class, and puggable.
Really though, raids can be done by any class and are puggable—it’s the community that makes it so meta-centric, not anet. I mean the same could even be said about dungeons and how the dungeon elitists will be like, “If yer not running berserkers you’re wasting everyone’s time.” Although, dungeonscensters HAVE chilled out a lot since nobody cares about them anymore.
The dungeon elitists back then were mostly speed runners. The berserker builds had nothing to do with actually being successful in the dungeon. But when ANeT removed the money incentive that speed running dungeons was built around the dungeon elitists began to disappear.
The builds for raids however are meant to deal with the speed at which you need to defeat the boss. ANeT created this little thing called an enrage timer to create an artificial difficulty level. Instead of a boss fight that any class could enter and take down the boss in an enjoyable fight, you need to DPS the kitten out of the bosses or you die due to the enrage timer or the instant death timer.
As for fractals, they were meant to be quick mini-dungeons. But they have recently been edging closer to raid-like.
If you think the difference between dungeons and raids are the enrage timers, you’re sorely mistaken. Enrage is mostly a pity mechanic. If you’re hitting enrage, you’ve been failing mechanics consistently and generally struggling with the encounter. The mechanic is there to spare you a long, exhausting fight which you’re most likely to lose anyway.
The thing about the design of the new fractals is, they feature more mechanics. In this way, they are closer to raids. However, the same makes the fights much more exciting and fun to play. It’s just a new, and better, approach to designing instanced content. And in fractals there isn’t even the issue of the difficulty. Too hard for you? No problem, just drop down a tier.
Even though I have yet to do this new fractal I can agree with the OP and other concerned fractal players. Unlike raids, fractals should be any class, and puggable.
Really though, raids can be done by any class and are puggable—it’s the community that makes it so meta-centric, not anet. I mean the same could even be said about dungeons and how the dungeon elitists will be like, “If yer not running berserkers you’re wasting everyone’s time.” Although, dungeonscensters HAVE chilled out a lot since nobody cares about them anymore.
The dungeon elitists back then were mostly speed runners. The berserker builds had nothing to do with actually being successful in the dungeon. But when ANeT removed the money incentive that speed running dungeons was built around the dungeon elitists began to disappear.
The builds for raids however are meant to deal with the speed at which you need to defeat the boss. ANeT created this little thing called an enrage timer to create an artificial difficulty level. Instead of a boss fight that any class could enter and take down the boss in an enjoyable fight, you need to DPS the kitten out of the bosses or you die due to the enrage timer or the instant death timer.
As for fractals, they were meant to be quick mini-dungeons. But they have recently been edging closer to raid-like.If you think the difference between dungeons and raids are the enrage timers, you’re sorely mistaken. Enrage is mostly a pity mechanic. If you’re hitting enrage, you’ve been failing mechanics consistently and generally struggling with the encounter. The mechanic is there to spare you a long, exhausting fight which you’re most likely to lose anyway.
The thing about the design of the new fractals is, they feature more mechanics. In this way, they are closer to raids. However, the same makes the fights much more exciting and fun to play. It’s just a new, and better, approach to designing instanced content. And in fractals there isn’t even the issue of the difficulty. Too hard for you? No problem, just drop down a tier.
And get trash rewards in the process.
Proud disabled gamer. Not everyone has the capacity to git gud.
But when ANeT removed the money incentive that speed running dungeons was built around the dungeon elitists began to disappear.
this is not entirely true.
while originally the money for dungeons was nerfed and people stopped doing them, later devs increased tokens and gold gain for dungeons in response to people’s outcry, but the mentality of not doing dungeons remained. + most people are kinda bored of this old content/not know it’s still good money if properly speedcleared.
+ a lot of old players quit the game and the new ones are used to condi meta and dont know dungeons so there’s also that.
But when ANeT removed the money incentive that speed running dungeons was built around the dungeon elitists began to disappear.
this is not entirely true.
while originally the money for dungeons was nerfed and people stopped doing them, later devs increased tokens and gold gain for dungeons in response to people’s outcry, but the mentality of not doing dungeons remained. + most people are kinda bored of this old content/not know it’s still good money if properly speedcleared.+ a lot of old players quit the game and the new ones are used to condi meta and dont know dungeons so there’s also that.
That is also not entirely true. While indeed the reward nerf was partially cancelled, the new rewards are still lower than they were initially. Additionally (what’s more important) the fractal rewards are significantly better now. Any speedrunner that was doing dungeons for gold is likely doing fractals now.
Actions, not words.
Remember, remember, 15th of November
Remember, remember, 15th of November
no, the rewards are practically the same if not better than before. you get both liquid gold from path and for repeatable achiev (+150 tokens). also token per path are increased and it adds up (if you have no recipes whatsoever, 1 path (100 tokens) equals ~60-100s. also tons of loot, lodestones, rares etc. AC even gives you lots of dust that got expensive nowadays. aether gives guaranteed skin selling for 2-10g.
fractal rewards aren’t significantly better unless you mean farming f40. kinda weak to compare farming to dung tours though
(edited by Sublimatio.6981)
no, the rewards are practically the same if not better than before. you get both liquid gold from path and for repeatable achiev (+150 tokens). also token per path are increased and it adds up (if you have no recipes whatsoever, 1 path (100 tokens) equals ~60-100s. also tons of loot, lodestones, rares etc. AC even gives you lots of dust that got expensive nowadays. aether gives guaranteed skin selling for 2-10g.
fractal rewards aren’t significantly better unless you mean farming f40. kinda weak to compare farming to dung tours though
Good to know. Thank you.
Proud disabled gamer. Not everyone has the capacity to git gud.
The dungeon elitists back then were mostly speed runners. The berserker builds had nothing to do with actually being successful in the dungeon. But when ANeT removed the money incentive that speed running dungeons was built around the dungeon elitists began to disappear.
The builds for raids however are meant to deal with the speed at which you need to defeat the boss. ANeT created this little thing called an enrage timer to create an artificial difficulty level. Instead of a boss fight that any class could enter and take down the boss in an enjoyable fight, you need to DPS the kitten out of the bosses or you die due to the enrage timer or the instant death timer.
As for fractals, they were meant to be quick mini-dungeons. But they have recently been edging closer to raid-like.I have a couple of problems with this line of thinking. First and foremost. Stop lying about enrage timers. enrage timers are difficulty, nothing artificial about them. No level of mechanic, no matter how difficult, cannot be made easier by stopping, taking a step back, and chilling out for a moment before it happens. Or, even worse, by taking 10 people in nomads gear and ignoring all mechanics. The whole point of enrage timers is to force people to do the mechanics while still playing their class well, without cheesing it out through overly tanky kitten.
The second thing, all classes have the capability to beat enrage timers if played well. The enrage timers in this game are all super casual. There is a problem in that some classes increase team DPS by such a ridiculous margin that they are considered necessary, and that kittening sucks, but once those spots are filled, everyone can do it.
And the third, perhaps most important thing? Fractals don’t have them. It will be harder if it takes longer, and therefore you should be good at the game and have good gear, but taking a healer or something to make it easier is allowed. You will still be able to do it.
Also, I reject the notion that fractals should be minidungeons. They should just be dungeons. They were minidungeons because a full fractal was 4 put together. The problem with fractals isn’t Shattered is too long, although I do think nothing should ever be made longer then it. Its that molten duo and solid ocean and stuff like that is way too short.
I didn’t lie about anything. Any time you have to use an enrage timer to “force”(your words) a group to do certain mechanics is an artificial way to create difficulty. You just proved in your own words that enrage timers are artificial ways to create difficulty. I quote: “The whole point of enrage timers is to force people to do the mechanics”.
Tue fractals don’t have enrage timer: YET.
And I only posted what the guildwiki said about fractals. They are mini-dungeons. So whether you think they should or shouldn’t be is irrelevant.
Leader of Central Anime(CA)
Tifa Ran/Ranger with a Pet
Commander WvW – Henge of Denravi
Tifa Ran/Ranger with a Pet
Commander WvW – Henge of Denravi
I didn’t lie about anything. Any time you have to use an enrage timer to “force”(your words) a group to do certain mechanics is an artificial way to create difficulty. You just proved in your own words that enrage timers are artificial ways to create difficulty. I quote: “The whole point of enrage timers is to force people to do the mechanics”.
Tue fractals don’t have enrage timer: YET.
And I only posted what the guildwiki said about fractals. They are mini-dungeons. So whether you think they should or shouldn’t be is irrelevant.
Lets not worry about yets. And even if they did put enrage timers in, it would be CM only. So who cares. They wont ever put an enrage timer in T4.
And no, there is nothing artificial about enrage timer difficulty. It is real difficulty. Hell, in many ways its more “real” difficulty then mechanical difficulty.
There shouldn’t be meta builds like in raids.
…..
Right, there should never be an onus on the players to improve, refine and find optimal ways and strategies with builds and traits. Nope never, not here, not in GW1, just not at all in games in general.
Do you guys who complain about meta this and meta that, even bother to play the game ?
I sincerely have to question this, because it seems like “meta” is becoming the new “eSports” ruined mah game meme.
There shouldn’t be meta builds like in raids.
…..
Right, there should never be an onus on the players to improve, refine and find optimal ways and strategies with builds and traits. Nope never, not here, not in GW1, just not at all in games in general.
Do you guys who complain about meta this and meta that, even bother to play the game ?
I sincerely have to question this, because it seems like “meta” is becoming the new “eSports” ruined mah game meme.
Im sure you havvent played any other mmo where you can go in there unarmed and clear content. Gw2 is such a hard game that wuld never work or anything outside of meta really. [/sarcasm]
The dungeon elitists back then were mostly speed runners. The berserker builds had nothing to do with actually being successful in the dungeon. But when ANeT removed the money incentive that speed running dungeons was built around the dungeon elitists began to disappear.
The builds for raids however are meant to deal with the speed at which you need to defeat the boss. ANeT created this little thing called an enrage timer to create an artificial difficulty level. Instead of a boss fight that any class could enter and take down the boss in an enjoyable fight, you need to DPS the kitten out of the bosses or you die due to the enrage timer or the instant death timer.
As for fractals, they were meant to be quick mini-dungeons. But they have recently been edging closer to raid-like.I have a couple of problems with this line of thinking. First and foremost. Stop lying about enrage timers. enrage timers are difficulty, nothing artificial about them. No level of mechanic, no matter how difficult, cannot be made easier by stopping, taking a step back, and chilling out for a moment before it happens. Or, even worse, by taking 10 people in nomads gear and ignoring all mechanics. The whole point of enrage timers is to force people to do the mechanics while still playing their class well, without cheesing it out through overly tanky kitten.
The second thing, all classes have the capability to beat enrage timers if played well. The enrage timers in this game are all super casual. There is a problem in that some classes increase team DPS by such a ridiculous margin that they are considered necessary, and that kittening sucks, but once those spots are filled, everyone can do it.
And the third, perhaps most important thing? Fractals don’t have them. It will be harder if it takes longer, and therefore you should be good at the game and have good gear, but taking a healer or something to make it easier is allowed. You will still be able to do it.
Also, I reject the notion that fractals should be minidungeons. They should just be dungeons. They were minidungeons because a full fractal was 4 put together. The problem with fractals isn’t Shattered is too long, although I do think nothing should ever be made longer then it. Its that molten duo and solid ocean and stuff like that is way too short.
I didn’t lie about anything. Any time you have to use an enrage timer to “force”(your words) a group to do certain mechanics is an artificial way to create difficulty. You just proved in your own words that enrage timers are artificial ways to create difficulty. I quote: “The whole point of enrage timers is to force people to do the mechanics”.
Tue fractals don’t have enrage timer: YET.
And I only posted what the guildwiki said about fractals. They are mini-dungeons. So whether you think they should or shouldn’t be is irrelevant.
Enrage timers are there so people dont cheese the encounter with full tanky builds but instead rely on their dodges/dmg mitigation to avoid getting killed.That has always been the traditional combat of GW2. Even with 2 magi druids u cant keep the group alive if they facetank every single mechanic.
Also on high level fractals there is a lot of agony application which renders heals almost useless for a few seconds + agony does % dmg that goes directly through armor. This has never been a game where tanky builds work to your favor and i think thats for the best otherwise we would all die of boredom.
(edited by zoomborg.9462)
Fractals are boring and repitive. We have over 10 dungeons with 3 different paths each, and we still do the same kittening fractals over and over again. Let’s be honest no one does dungeons anymore, because it is not worth it.
Dungeons worth it if you speedrun them. Gold is just loosing its value. Why would new people bother learning and practicing dungeon speedruns to farm thousands gold/week when you can kill brain cells in new maps for few days and get the same result.
They are taking too much influence from Wildstar and other hardcore MMO’s. GW2 was never about that. I’m concerned the direction this is taking the game.
They are taking too much influence from Wildstar and other hardcore MMO’s. GW2 was never about that. I’m concerned the direction this is taking the game.
Theres enough Open World content directed for casual players and this wont change with the new expansion. At the same time more dedicated players get the chance to test the game to its limits so theres no reason to be concerned about that.
There are plenty of reasons to be concerned. The issue is the change in direction. Instanced PVE group content is becoming increasingly complex and challenging. Players who were able to enjoy it before find it less and less to their tastes.
Nothing in the open world not even comes close to offering the same type of experience as dungeon and fractal running.
There are plenty of reasons to be concerned. The issue is the change in direction. Instanced PVE group content is becoming increasingly complex and challenging. Players who were able to enjoy it before find it less and less to their tastes.
Nothing in the open world not even comes close to offering the same type of experience as dungeon and fractal running.
Again, T1, T2 and T3 Fractals didn’t stop existing. You can experience more casual version of this new content. There’s 0 need to go down the self loathing pity me route and blame anet for a change in direction when they were upfront with everyone when they said T4 was a joke that was going to be reworked.
They are taking too much influence from Wildstar and other hardcore MMO’s. GW2 was never about that. I’m concerned the direction this is taking the game.
I like when ppl come and say “gw2 was never about this/that” i will gladly w8 for you to find me a dev comment saying " gw2 isntanced content isnt about challenge or alot of aoes"
Im curious how ez were 40-50 fractals back pre hot really? That this “new” direction is so hard for ppl to deal with.
^ I remember you absolutely had to avoid getting hit back then, cause everything was 1 shot, and trash mobs had high HPs. But people developed ways to beat high level fractals before the content rework, including hammer guard, wild strafing for volcanic shaman and max-ing zerker strats.
Those really tested the mettle, but obviously, the dedicated player base for these challenges were really small, and the rewards were trash. But it was really tough back then, and you had to improve your skill.
The fractal rework years ago, brought many casual players on board, and I can understand their disgust at such difficulty today. However, I don’t appreciate the thrashing of these content, especially when it pushes willing players to get better and get exclusive rewards for their trouble.
Even though I have yet to do this new fractal I can agree with the OP and other concerned fractal players. Unlike raids, fractals should be any class, and puggable.
Really though, raids can be done by any class and are puggable—it’s the community that makes it so meta-centric, not anet. I mean the same could even be said about dungeons and how the dungeon elitists will be like, “If yer not running berserkers you’re wasting everyone’s time.” Although, dungeonscensters HAVE chilled out a lot since nobody cares about them anymore.
The dungeon elitists back then were mostly speed runners. The berserker builds had nothing to do with actually being successful in the dungeon. But when ANeT removed the money incentive that speed running dungeons was built around the dungeon elitists began to disappear.
The builds for raids however are meant to deal with the speed at which you need to defeat the boss. ANeT created this little thing called an enrage timer to create an artificial difficulty level. Instead of a boss fight that any class could enter and take down the boss in an enjoyable fight, you need to DPS the kitten out of the bosses or you die due to the enrage timer or the instant death timer.
As for fractals, they were meant to be quick mini-dungeons. But they have recently been edging closer to raid-like.If you think the difference between dungeons and raids are the enrage timers, you’re sorely mistaken. Enrage is mostly a pity mechanic. If you’re hitting enrage, you’ve been failing mechanics consistently and generally struggling with the encounter. The mechanic is there to spare you a long, exhausting fight which you’re most likely to lose anyway.
The thing about the design of the new fractals is, they feature more mechanics. In this way, they are closer to raids. However, the same makes the fights much more exciting and fun to play. It’s just a new, and better, approach to designing instanced content. And in fractals there isn’t even the issue of the difficulty. Too hard for you? No problem, just drop down a tier.
And get trash rewards in the process.
Ah, so what you actually care about is the rewards, preferably received without any effort on your side. I’d say “good to know”, but it’s hardly news to anyone.
Agreed. They are supposed to be dungeons, not raids. Anet has been failing miserably for the last 3 fractal releases, each one becoming more raid than dungeon. Nobody gave a kitten about stepping stones to raids. If you want to get into raids, find a group for raids…
Vee/Volk
Maguuma – Predatory Instinct [HUNT]
Necromancer
Maguuma – Predatory Instinct [HUNT]
Necromancer
Agreed. They are supposed to be dungeons, not raids. Anet has been failing miserably for the last 3 fractal releases, each one becoming more raid than dungeon. Nobody gave a kitten about stepping stones to raids. If you want to get into raids, find a group for raids…
Still feels more like a dungeon that the Press 1 damage golems we had in actually dungeons.
Agreed. They are supposed to be dungeons, not raids. Anet has been failing miserably for the last 3 fractal releases, each one becoming more raid than dungeon. Nobody gave a kitten about stepping stones to raids. If you want to get into raids, find a group for raids…
If that’s failing miserably, I’d love them to fail more.
The new fractal is fine honestly, if people cant put any effort to improve that’s their own problem.
The new fractal is fine at the higher difficulties, but the 25 one could get toned down a bit. Failing mechanics should be less punishing there. What happens, if a player with bomb doesnt go into the dome? If i remember right, it was something around 10k damage everyone got? Thats just too punishing for T1.
You need to consider that the lowest tier is the entry lvl, group composition wildly varies (many groups there do it without a healer) and many players are new to the content. Id suggest to reduce the damage you get for failed mechanics.
Im writing this based on the experience i had when i first tryed that fractal casually on T1. And yes, i did beat it later on T4, but with the T1-group it wasnt happening.
Agreed. They are supposed to be dungeons, not raids. Anet has been failing miserably for the last 3 fractal releases, each one becoming more raid than dungeon. Nobody gave a kitten about stepping stones to raids. If you want to get into raids, find a group for raids…
Really? I thought fractals were supposed to be.. well fractals creations of w/e setting in the mists. That gives the devs unlimited creativity to make w/e encounter they enjoy.
If you really think that fractals are supposed to be like dingeons then u should have been complaining since the first fractals they added because they are nothing like the dungeons we have…
Even though I have yet to do this new fractal I can agree with the OP and other concerned fractal players. Unlike raids, fractals should be any class, and puggable.
Really though, raids can be done by any class and are puggable—it’s the community that makes it so meta-centric, not anet. I mean the same could even be said about dungeons and how the dungeon elitists will be like, “If yer not running berserkers you’re wasting everyone’s time.” Although, dungeonscensters HAVE chilled out a lot since nobody cares about them anymore.
The dungeon elitists back then were mostly speed runners. The berserker builds had nothing to do with actually being successful in the dungeon. But when ANeT removed the money incentive that speed running dungeons was built around the dungeon elitists began to disappear.
The builds for raids however are meant to deal with the speed at which you need to defeat the boss. ANeT created this little thing called an enrage timer to create an artificial difficulty level. Instead of a boss fight that any class could enter and take down the boss in an enjoyable fight, you need to DPS the kitten out of the bosses or you die due to the enrage timer or the instant death timer.
As for fractals, they were meant to be quick mini-dungeons. But they have recently been edging closer to raid-like.If you think the difference between dungeons and raids are the enrage timers, you’re sorely mistaken. Enrage is mostly a pity mechanic. If you’re hitting enrage, you’ve been failing mechanics consistently and generally struggling with the encounter. The mechanic is there to spare you a long, exhausting fight which you’re most likely to lose anyway.
The thing about the design of the new fractals is, they feature more mechanics. In this way, they are closer to raids. However, the same makes the fights much more exciting and fun to play. It’s just a new, and better, approach to designing instanced content. And in fractals there isn’t even the issue of the difficulty. Too hard for you? No problem, just drop down a tier.
You could also argue that having raid mechanics actually makes these fights easier since they come with big orange gtfo indicators that give you at least a hint of what you’re supposed to do. Unlike a lot of the older dungeons where you’re left with a sense of, “Wait, what’s going on here?” if you haven’t done them before.
Anet actually does a pretty good job in the newer fractals of introducing you to aspects of the final fight earlier in the instance (and at easier difficulties), where you have a chance to learn them before you’re thrown into the last boss who does a more amped up/all at once version of them. I mean, that sort of thing is game design 101, but a lot of games get it wrong.
Shattered Observatory is easy both on NM and CM – the first 2 boss encounters and third untill Arkk hits the 40% HP zone. Up until Arkk, this new Fractal is very doable to an average Pug group assuming everyone knows mechanics to some extent.
Ah, so what you actually care about is the rewards, preferably received without any effort on your side. I’d say “good to know”, but it’s hardly news to anyone.
What requires more effort, molten duo or shattered observatory? Which gives better rewards? Unfortunately they both give the same rewards. Do you know why arah p4, aether path, and SE p2 were never ran? Because anet never properly balanced the rewards. Proper balancing of rewards is essential to keeping content alive.
Still feels more like a dungeon that the Press 1 damage golems we had in actually dungeons.
If all you did was press 1 in dungeons, you were an absolutely terrible player, and you would have made at least double running sw chest farm.
Ah, so what you actually care about is the rewards, preferably received without any effort on your side. I’d say “good to know”, but it’s hardly news to anyone.
What requires more effort, molten duo or shattered observatory? Which gives better rewards? Unfortunately they both give the same rewards. Do you know why arah p4, aether path, and SE p2 were never ran? Because anet never properly balanced the rewards. Proper balancing of rewards is essential to keeping content alive.
The comparison is irrelevant because of the daily rewards for fractals. If Shattered is daily and the Duo isn’t, they don’t give the same rewards. So you don’t get to choose the easier one. Do you remember when the dailies used to be 3x Swamp? This system was introduced to counter that very issue, and it did.
Furthermore, Shattered’s difficulty is comparable to Nightmare and even Chaos on normal mode. Did people stop to run these two? They didn’t. They won’t stop running Shattered either, they’ll just learn it and it will become a smoother experience, just like it did for the others.
CM is where the difficulty is amped up and – surprise, surprise – it does give better rewards.
Ah, so what you actually care about is the rewards, preferably received without any effort on your side. I’d say “good to know”, but it’s hardly news to anyone.
What requires more effort, molten duo or shattered observatory? Which gives better rewards? Unfortunately they both give the same rewards. Do you know why arah p4, aether path, and SE p2 were never ran? Because anet never properly balanced the rewards. Proper balancing of rewards is essential to keeping content alive.
The comparison is irrelevant because of the daily rewards for fractals. If Shattered is daily and the Duo isn’t, they don’t give the same rewards. So you don’t get to choose the easier one. Do you remember when the dailies used to be 3x Swamp? This system was introduced to counter that very issue, and it did.
Furthermore, Shattered’s difficulty is comparable to Nightmare and even Chaos on normal mode. Did people stop to run these two? They didn’t. They won’t stop running Shattered either, they’ll just learn it and it will become a smoother experience, just like it did for the others.
CM is where the difficulty is amped up and – surprise, surprise – it does give better rewards.
Actually molten duo gives more karma meanwhile 100 doesnt give you any. @Ben fix the karma that fractals give pls.
Actually I did start running less fractals because of chaos and nightmare. Not because I myself couldn’t handle those fractals, but because the pugs I joined couldn’t. It started with chaos, the final boss would run all around, get invuln because of poor positioning, and be a huge mess.
I love challenging content, I full clear raids with my static every Monday and I love it. One day a week at a set time I can fit into my schedule. But I can’t really fix my schedule to have a static fractal group every week. I am stuck pugging, and pugging fractals is a lot less fun than pugging dungeons use to be.
In my experience “t4+cm” pugs have been a considerable improvement over the standard t4 pugs. The former are a lot less likely to wipe over and over on stuff like Cliffside hands.
There are plenty of reasons to be concerned. The issue is the change in direction. Instanced PVE group content is becoming increasingly complex and challenging. Players who were able to enjoy it before find it less and less to their tastes.
Nothing in the open world not even comes close to offering the same type of experience as dungeon and fractal running.
And as a result, ableism is becoming more and more prevalent in this game and on the forums. HoT and Raids killed GW2’s spirit.
Even though I have yet to do this new fractal I can agree with the OP and other concerned fractal players. Unlike raids, fractals should be any class, and puggable.
Really though, raids can be done by any class and are puggable—it’s the community that makes it so meta-centric, not anet. I mean the same could even be said about dungeons and how the dungeon elitists will be like, “If yer not running berserkers you’re wasting everyone’s time.” Although, dungeonscensters HAVE chilled out a lot since nobody cares about them anymore.
The dungeon elitists back then were mostly speed runners. The berserker builds had nothing to do with actually being successful in the dungeon. But when ANeT removed the money incentive that speed running dungeons was built around the dungeon elitists began to disappear.
The builds for raids however are meant to deal with the speed at which you need to defeat the boss. ANeT created this little thing called an enrage timer to create an artificial difficulty level. Instead of a boss fight that any class could enter and take down the boss in an enjoyable fight, you need to DPS the kitten out of the bosses or you die due to the enrage timer or the instant death timer.
As for fractals, they were meant to be quick mini-dungeons. But they have recently been edging closer to raid-like.If you think the difference between dungeons and raids are the enrage timers, you’re sorely mistaken. Enrage is mostly a pity mechanic. If you’re hitting enrage, you’ve been failing mechanics consistently and generally struggling with the encounter. The mechanic is there to spare you a long, exhausting fight which you’re most likely to lose anyway.
The thing about the design of the new fractals is, they feature more mechanics. In this way, they are closer to raids. However, the same makes the fights much more exciting and fun to play. It’s just a new, and better, approach to designing instanced content. And in fractals there isn’t even the issue of the difficulty. Too hard for you? No problem, just drop down a tier.
And get trash rewards in the process.
Ah, so what you actually care about is the rewards, preferably received without any effort on your side. I’d say “good to know”, but it’s hardly news to anyone.
GWAMM and Champion of The Gods here. I’m obviously fine earning rewards, but not when the design is all OHKOs because you can’t see tiny red circles in the middle of 10,000 different effects. Such engaging, challenging design.
Agreed. They are supposed to be dungeons, not raids. Anet has been failing miserably for the last 3 fractal releases, each one becoming more raid than dungeon. Nobody gave a kitten about stepping stones to raids. If you want to get into raids, find a group for raids…
Quoted for ultimate truth.
Proud disabled gamer. Not everyone has the capacity to git gud.
(edited by Makai.3429)
tldr: difficult daily content is fine, but anet is not willing to make the rewards reflect the difficulty.
And also whats bad about some not so casual daily content? I dislike te format in raids, i tried it and it wasnt my thing so idk i didnt ask for it to be changed but i want this harder daily content i like the challenge and if i dont feel like it one day i simply skip it no biggie.
I don’t consider harder daily content inherently bad, certainly not. The problem is the way anet balances rewards for weekly vs daily. Rewards should be balanced based off difficulty, but instead they are based on the gating system. This is evident when you look at the rewards in any content.
Lets look at the fractal cms. I have done cm nightmare about 30 times. I’ve never gotten a weapon skin (other than the guaranteed skin from the first clear). The liquid rewards have never been good either. Dungeons use to give 2 gold for paths like ac. Cm nightmare gives no gold, toxic spores are only 9 silver each. Compare this to weekly raids, where you get 4 gold + rare + exotic (which aren’t even account bound!) for each boss of w4. And every boss of w4 seems easier than arkk on cm.
With shattered observatory cm, you have to complete it somewhere between 30 and 90 times to get the infusion via the currency (btw not in wallet ffs). And the liquid rewards don’t look that good.
If these rewards were better, I would happily form a static and do them. Maybe I wouldn’t do them daily, but once a week probably. But for these weak rewards? Forming a static doesn’t seem worthwhile, but the content is challenging enough that pugging is frustrating.
p.s. For anyone who wants to say raid rewards are the problem, and way too good, I will point out that like always, sw farming is competitive, doric leather farm is competitive, and both of those require far less training than a quick full raid clear.
Argueably the cms have great rewards considering you can do them daily. You compaire the cm rewards to the raid once. Thats fine but do it properly x7 cm rewards and 1x raid rewards.
Now, i wouldnt mind if cm also gave 1g on top of the already existing rewards. But im in no place to say if thats a good idea over all. You also aprea to compaire cms to pre nerf dungeons. Pre nerf dungeons were not balanced properly. The rewards were way to good hence why they were nerfed.
Both cms have rarer drops that translate into alot of gold (100 spores, mystic coins etc and for 100cm 2 infusions that go for alot in the tp)
(edited by zealex.9410)