Guild Wars 2

-sigh-
Trying to make “progress” in Fractals dungeons, yet I spend more time standing in Lion’s Arch searching for people to join on the same difficulty scaling as me than actually playing the dungeon.

Whoever decided on this difficulty scaling should be fired and not ever get involved in game design ever again. Guild Wars 2 was originally designed around the promise of removing the holy trinity (they did succeed at this), with one of the main goals being to have players spend more time playing the game, and less time looking for other players to start playing the game (they were somewhat successful at this, but since new dungeon came out not any more).

It’s astonishing how wrong this whole thing was designed. Did ArenaNet ever think beyond day 1 and 2 after dungeon release? Did they honestly think it would be dead easy to find a party for these difficulty scalings with people being spread out over (currently) 30 or so different difficulty scalings? People were already complaining about regular dungeons being hard to find parties for, and those only have 2 different playing levels (story + explorable).
Did they learn from this mistake? Nope.
Or actually, yes, they somewhat did. What did they do with it? Make people go back to lower difficulties for an RNG drop required to “progress” further.
Does this fix the problem at all? Nope.
Because the RNG drop only comes from the daily chest. And the daily chest only comes from even difficulty scalings, while the odd difficulty scalings are left out.

I don’t even know where to start with this, but there are so many ways to have handled this in better ways. Since I got time to waste anyway as I’m currently looking for a party for one of these Fractals that no one else currently wants to play I might as well kill some time by writing this thing (that’ll get ignored by devs anyway).

Why the need for so many difficulty scalings?
I will never know why, and it doesn’t really matter. What matters is that it creates problems:
-Splits up player base interested in doing the dungeon in way too many pieces.
-Results in hard to find people to play the right difficulty scaling with.
-Results in lots and lots of spam.
-Results in bored and frustrated people (makes me want to log off and go do something more fun and meaningful with my time than standing in LA spamming LFP)

What was ArenaNet on?
No one will ever know. But what I know is what’s wrong:
-No reward for going back to lower difficulties.
-Results in people not wanting to play lower difficulties again.
-Daily chest only from even difficulties.
-The good thing is that it actually gives some people reason to go back to lower difficulties.
-The bad thing is that the only reason that they do is because they got unlucky with RNG.
-And that odd difficulties are still not played by anyone, except once for making “progress”, making it hard to find parties for.
-The more the playerbase “progresses” through Fractals the more split up the playerbase becomes.
-Results in even harder to find parties.

What could have been done?
Things that could have been done to prevent this disastrous piece of game design… and no, I’m not even going to start about Agony and Infusion, that deserves a thread on its own:
-Decrease the amount of difficulties by x10.
-And remove the unlocks and let people play on any difficulty they want to.
-Or have a daily chest appear on every difficulty instead of only on even difficulties.
-And let people play the highest difficulty the party has unlocked instead of the lowest.
-Or offer additional rewards for playing on lower difficulties.

-Add Heroes.

FAQ
Q: jion a giuld lol
A: Still doesn’t have 4 people in to play with me at my difficulty scaling when I want to / have time. And I like PUGs.

Q: play wif freinds lol
A: Don’t have 4 friends to play with me at my difficulty scaling when I want to / have time.

Q: do ur story lol
A: Done.

Q: explor teh wolrd lol
A: Been there, done that.

Q: play ohtre dungoens lol
A: Have had my Dungeon Master title for a while now.

(edit: added a FAQ for smartkittens: don’t even bother)

After writing all this still haven’t found a party, so I might as well go to sleep now, after having wasted over an hour doing nothing, but LFP’ing and writing this thing.

Just sounds another person who isn’t proactive to make a group or use the lfg site.

Shaikhob.2863:

Just sounds another person who isn’t proactive to make a group or use the lfg site.

And what’s proactive? I’ve reached my “suppression” limit more often than you want to know. And why should I go to a random site to even find a party for a dungeon? That doesn’t even make sense.

Milennin.4825:

Shaikhob.2863:

Just sounds another person who isn’t proactive to make a group or use the lfg site.

And what’s proactive? I’ve reached my “suppression” limit more often than you want to know. And why should I go to a random site to even find a party for a dungeon? That doesn’t even make sense.

So you don’t want to log in/log out to reset your spam or use any other resources made available to you. In essence you want to be spoon fed a group rather expend every opportunity or option you have.

Read the stickies in forums, they are helpful. There’s a sticky that talks about gw2lfg.com. Use it. I don’t even sit in LA anymore. Usually find groups for any dungeon in 15mins.

I wouldn’t waste time responding to “defenders”, it is a pain to get a group. I know, I pugged to 20.

Best bet is use the LFG site – yeah I know its 3rd party. But has ANet really done better? No, some random person did. He/she did a REALLY good job too. I can find groups for fractals in a max of 30 mins for lesser done ones, and 10ish for more popular ones (daily).

http://gw2lfg.com/lfgs

Trust me once you do it, you will wonder why ANet sits by and doesn’t just copy it in game.

*edit: Its rather funny how people quote the log off/in trick like it is something “every” mmo does. Don’t ya know? It is commonplace! – Also I bet ALL of those defenders wouldn’t invite the OP to help them through fractals. They would just say “You didn’t get a group LOL”

Some good points OP. I personally don’t have much trouble finding the one pug i need to fill my group of me and 3 RL friends but i see your point.

To the replies to the OP….Realy? you’re going to defend the FotM leveling system by saying hes lazy and should use a 3rd party site?….no, just no. There is no reason we should have to resort to using 3rd party sites, the fact that an lfg site exists shows that there are major flaws in the system. Anet(colin i think) is quoted in a video saying, "no more waiting spamming the city with LF healer….well now we spam LF fractals 4…its far worse and you shouldn’t defend a crap system. You’ve found work around, thats great, but you shouldn’t need work arounds.

So you expect everything to be in place at a games release. The game isn’t even 6 months old yet. Honestly people have to learn to be patient. This will be an added feature. It’s not however high on the priority list. I rather see bugs and glitches fixed first before this is added in.

I expect everything to be in place when they release new content. Instead of releasing it they should be working on bug fixing it instead.

I’m in the same boat, no way to get a PUG to do anything with.

Shaikhob.2863:

So you expect everything to be in place at a games release. The game isn’t even 6 months old yet. Honestly people have to learn to be patient. This will be an added feature. It’s not however high on the priority list. I rather see bugs and glitches fixed first before this is added in.

If things aren’t in place yet, then why are they releasing new content? And this doesn’t have anything to do with “not being in place yet” as it’s addressing the core issue I, and many other players have with Fractals. It’s not some small bug like the teleporting grawl or the auto-run thing in Jade Maw.

And thanks for the replies. I shouldn’t have to, but I’ll give that site a go, and see if that’ll help speed it up a bit.

I can’t believe some people are actually defending this system!
1) You shouldn’t have to use a 3rd party site to play a game. Also most players don’t use the forums and won’t learn about the site.
2) As time goes by it will only become more difficult to find a group.
3) Even if you have a guild and a regular group, sometimes someone can’t play for whatever reason. In this case the group has to get a random to fill the missing spot, and although it’s easier than making a group from scratch, it still tales longer than it should. 4) For more casual gamers, who only have 1h-1h30m to play, waiting 30m for a group is not acceptable. And it’s not what ANet promised.

Finally, all MMOs are works in progress, but ANet has had some inexcusable failures on the dungeon part of the game. From patches that simply break dungeon paths, indicating that little or no play testing was made, to a great new dungeon with a progression system that broke after the first week.

Needing to use a 3rd party site for something basic like LOOKING FOR OTHER PEOPLE in an MMO is pretty kitten

Arenanet is pretty much good for designing PvP content. Everything else they’ve blundered spectacularly on.

There is no excuse for the amount of buggy dungeons, buggy zones, and this thing that manages to Out do Burning Crusade in levels of tier hemorrhaging. In one dungeon

I logged in just to say: I agree with you 100%

I was playing with the idea of making a thread exactly like this myself, but alas, I was too lazy.

I don’t know what else to say other than I am extremely disappointed with waiting for HOURS to find a group that is my level.

I am also at the mercy of the RNG. I have run the daily level 10 four times already, and have still not received the ring. I have not received a single ascended item at all this entire time, and it is a brick wall that is stopping me from progressing to the higher levels.

Naturally, everyone being focused on FotM is hurting the group finding for the other dungeons too.

Shaikhob.2863:

So you expect everything to be in place at a games release. The game isn’t even 6 months old yet. Honestly people have to learn to be patient. This will be an added feature. It’s not however high on the priority list. I rather see bugs and glitches fixed first before this is added in.

Man why are you mad that Arah is broke! This game is only 2 months old! Let them get around to fixing stuff!

C Wut I did there?

i agree with this post. i love the fractals, its a great dungeon. but finding a group, even with the lfg site is annoying.

the reason i played this game was because Anet said they wanted to encourage player interaction and cooperation, and get rid of the GRIND that we see in so many mmo’s. but here i am farming kittening dailys in the fotm for a CHANCE at a ring to drop. great job Anet, thx for ruining your game

Yeah, before I found out about that third party site, I literally COULD NOT find a group for Fractals D2. And the most annoying thing? There were like 4 people spamming LFG for different difficulty levels. Now, that site did help me a lot, but that’s no excuse.

I really, really hope ANet does something about this soon. Personally, I think they should just allow lower D level people to go on higher D levels, and unlock high D levels like this…but only get rewards for whatever their max D level is. So like, a D level 2 person, could go on a D level 9 dungeon, and unlock D level 3 at the end…but only get D level 2 rewards.

I’m honestly kind of baffled at how the game was developed for years with this ideal of making it easy for anyone to find a dungeon group, and then to just throw all that by the wayside by making it so you don’t want to group with anyone except for people that have done the dungeon the EXACT SAME NUMBER OF TIMES as you have.

Talk about ridiculous.

Take a break from those kittening dungeons. Its a treadmill. Get the kitten off.

gw2lfg.com

Not perfect but worked. Thank god I still can do WvW while actively “looking for group/member”.

Well, at least I’m not the only person who see the problem with this “LOOKING FOR GROUP” dungeon of this game.

Good job Arenet….add matching queue please if you not going to remove the stupid Level things from Fractal

Which is sad, this game still new and already like this. Imagine when it’s 5 years old.

I totally agree with the OP.

I don’t know why some Fanboy will defend the current LFG system. But i guess it worked for them.

I didn’t know about this: http://gw2lfg.com/lfgs but I am going to check it out. Image you have to go to a 3rd parties site to find a group. A-net should be a shame!

So much for not having to sit by a dungeon door to shout LFG. The current system make looking for a tank/heal at 4am looks easy.

Pretty much quite the game.

Can’t do fractals because i can’t re-enter after DC.

Can’t do CoE path 1.

Fractals are way too level specific for me to bother finding a level 1 group after doing it several times only to DC.

Shaikhob.2863:

Just sounds another person who isn’t proactive to make a group or use the lfg site.

I finish forming a group into FoTM after 40 minutes I join party of 2 ppls. So we look for 2 more for 40(!) minutes using different LA overflows AND LFG site.

Begur.3205:

Shaikhob.2863:

Just sounds another person who isn’t proactive to make a group or use the lfg site.

I finish forming a group into FoTM after 40 minutes I join party of 2 ppls. So we look for 2 more for 40(!) minutes using different LA overflows AND LFG site.

But a dungeon finder would kill the community!

I mean those players that don’t leave because of lack of finding a group. Yeah those guys! Think of how hurt their community will be!

It makes me sick to read the OP (and all the other QQ’ers) threads and comments like they know wtf they’re talking about in terms of game development.

I have the urge to beat you and the rest if the children similar to you like the red headed stepchild, then throw a bottle of milk in your mouth and ground you to your room until adult hood with no more video games.

OP, pull up your diapers, start your own group instead of waiting for someone to pick you up in theirs.

And no I’m not a parent and from what I get, neither were the OP’s.

Grene Jello.4651:

OP, pull up your diapers, start your own group instead of waiting for someone to pick you up in theirs.

Doesn’t do much if your starting a group but others aren’t on YOUR fractal number is it? To ignore a VERY easy to notice problem is either ignorance or stupidity. I am guessing one, which do you think I am guessing? The problem will get worse.

Or have you just never noticed story mode problems that even DEVS have stated is a problem? Probably not, you seem to have a blindfold on

But just wait till people leave and newblood isn’t welcomed, bet you will be happy with the 0 playerbase then.

Btw I pugged to 22 – so don’t even start.

Dead.7385:

Grene Jello.4651:

OP, pull up your diapers, start your own group instead of waiting for someone to pick you up in theirs.

Doesn’t do much if your starting a group but others aren’t on YOUR fractal number is it? To ignore a VERY easy to notice problem is either ignorance or stupidity. I am guessing one, which do you think I am guessing? The problem will get worse.

Or have you just never noticed story mode problems that even DEVS have stated is a problem? Probably not, you seem to have a blindfold on

But just wait till people leave and newblood isn’t welcomed, bet you will be happy with the 0 playerbase then.

Btw I pugged to 22 – so don’t even start.

To help with the problem of finding folks at any given tier of FoTM I composed the following thread on a process to quickly search multiple overflow servers (posted both here and Guru).

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/dungeons/How-do-I-hop-between-servers-when-LFM-FoTM/first#post862406

So I am trying to help the community, one which I’ve happily spent the last 7 or so years. Moreover, I genuinely believe each one of has the responsibility foster a the growth & health of our community on various sites and forums, and good times in game.

Do you do make good point, yeah I blew up a bit there, which doesn’t really create a comphy environment for new players. I should be less harsh with my criticisms, I think I should avoid obvious flaming threads all together, its not worth the stress. Which is why I’ll let some of your more choice words slide.

I guess it just really burns me to hear the arrogance of some players knowing that Anet houses some of the highest regarded pioneers of gaming and brightest/creative minds in the MMO space today. I sometimes feel like firing back with the same fervor and bad taste that is heaped on Anet by seemingly mediocre minds.

I’ve been stuck on lvl 4 fractals for 2days now. Spent like a good hour trying to find a group to just run fractals then i just logged off and gaved up for the night. I havent been able to play regularly due to work so my guild has left me behind in terms of fractals lvl. Majority of them are more into doing the levels that they currently or their legendary quest and it seems like a hassle to ask them to play on a lower lvl. Finding a good PUG where people dont leave is often a hit or miss.

I love the company and the game since gw1 but nowadays im just not having any fun in their game. all the “wow-amazing” moments ive exp in the game has been replaced with “WTF-Anet-why?!”

If you want more people to do your fractal with, THEN EAT SOME CONCRETE AND HELP THE LOWER LEVEL PLAYERS OUT.
Seriously, I’m on fractal 7, yet i got more rares (and a corrupted lodestone) out of doing level 1 for some guildies, which is more than i ever got from 5 and 6.

Cloudwalkernz.1328:

http://gw2lfg.com/lfgs

why can’t they just have this in game? GW1 had something almost exactly like this

I just don’t understand why it isn’t in yet

Grene Jello.4651:

I guess it just really burns me to hear the arrogance of some players knowing that Anet houses some of the highest regarded pioneers of gaming and brightest/creative minds in the MMO space today. I sometimes feel like firing back with the same fervor and bad taste that is heaped on Anet by seemingly mediocre minds.

And it’s great that you’re such a fan of ANet devs, but does them being gods walking among us plebians make them immune from bungling things up?
I really don’t understand how wanting to have an obviously necessary thing, like a group finder, is arrogance on the part of the player, and why players (may also be read as “customers” or “clients”) making suggestions that they think would make the game better makes you upset.
ANet clearly wants feedback, otherwise these forums wouldn’t be here – so here they are getting some feedback. Should we not point things out when they’re broken or out of whack? Party search is such a basic thing, especially if ANet wants people to play in groups, that its lack might as well be a bug.

Creeper.9360:

Cloudwalkernz.1328:

http://gw2lfg.com/lfgs

why can’t they just have this in game? GW1 had something almost exactly like this

I just don’t understand why it isn’t in yet

An ingame version of that LFP tool would be perfect.

Grene Jello.4651:

Do you do make good point, yeah I blew up a bit there, which doesn’t really create a comply environment for new players. I should be less harsh with my criticisms, I think I should avoid obvious flaming threads all together, its not worth the stress. Which is why I’ll let some of your more choice words slide.

I guess it just really burns me to hear the arrogance of some players knowing that Anet houses some of the highest regarded pioneers of gaming and brightest/creative minds in the MMO space today. I sometimes feel like firing back with the same fervor and bad taste that is heaped on Anet by seemingly mediocre minds.

You’re right. You should just avoid them. In fact, please do the general community a favor and get the kitten out of the forums completely. Take your ridiculous over 9000 level fanboi’ism with you too. The only minds around here being mediocre are yours and Arena Net’s. If you truly think this Fractal difficulty level thing was a good idea then you’re a clown, plain and simple. People having to use a third-party website to get Fractal parties means the game’s kittening broken. If you can’t see this and still think whoever made this system is a “pioneer” of gaming then there is no hope for you.

Now please eject yourself from the forums, saving yourself stress and saving me from having to make an irritable post.

idk bout u guys but i’m lfg for sorrows embrace story, i used the gw2lfg.com, and after 30mins nobody have shown up. And whats more irritating is that my map/say chat is suppressed for saying lfg sorrows embrace too much apparently, i wasnt even spamming

Freohr.7905:

Grene Jello.4651:

Do you do make good point, yeah I blew up a bit there, which doesn’t really create a comply environment for new players. I should be less harsh with my criticisms, I think I should avoid obvious flaming threads all together, its not worth the stress. Which is why I’ll let some of your more choice words slide.

I guess it just really burns me to hear the arrogance of some players knowing that Anet houses some of the highest regarded pioneers of gaming and brightest/creative minds in the MMO space today. I sometimes feel like firing back with the same fervor and bad taste that is heaped on Anet by seemingly mediocre minds.

You’re right. You should just avoid them. In fact, please do the general community a favor and get the kitten out of the forums completely. Take your ridiculous over 9000 level fanboi’ism with you too. The only minds around here being mediocre are yours and Arena Net’s. If you truly think this Fractal difficulty level thing was a good idea then you’re a clown, plain and simple. People having to use a third-party website to get Fractal parties means the game’s kittening broken. If you can’t see this and still think whoever made this system is a “pioneer” of gaming then there is no hope for you.

Now please eject yourself from the forums, saving yourself stress and saving me from having to make an irritable post.

You’re mad, I can tell.

You’re also ignorant, but I’ll help you rather than flame you.

Mike O’Brien was featured as one of the most influential people in the computer and video game industry on PC Gamer’s September 1999 cover story “Game Gods”.

Before co-founding ArenaNet, he worked as a company director and a lead programmer at Blizzard Entertainment where he developed the 3D rendering engine of Warcraft III: Reign of Chaos and led the development of Battle.net.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mike_O%27Brien_
—-

MPQ (Mo’PaQ, short for Mike O’Brien Pack, named after its creator[citation needed]), is an archiving file format used in several of Blizzard Entertainment’s games.

MPQs used in Blizzard’s games generally contain a game’s data files, including graphics, sounds, and level data. The format’s capabilities include compression, encryption, file segmentation, extensible file metadata, cryptographic signature and the ability to store multiple versions of the same file for internationalization and platform-specific differences. MPQ archives can use a variety of compression algorithms which may also be combined.

Usage in gaming

Blizzard has utilized the MPQ file format for archiving game files in a number of their games, including:
Diablo
Diablo: Hellfire developed by Synergistic Software
Lords of Magic developed by Sierra Entertainment
Diablo II
Diablo II: Lord of Destruction
StarCraft
StarCraft: Brood War
WarCraft II: Battle.net Edition
Warcraft III: Reign of Chaos
Warcraft III: The Frozen Throne
World of Warcraft and all its expansions
StarCraft II: Wings of Liberty
Diablo III

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MPQ

tldr

So Mike O’Brien (president of ArenaNet) created an archiving file format called MPQ that’s been used in video games as far back as Diablo I and most recently Diablo III, not to mention World of Warcraft and all its expansions along with every other game Blizzard has released.

If that’s not a pioneer, tell me who/what is.

Tag you’re it.

So back on topic, you make some really good points. I’d love to see this implemented:

-And let people play the highest difficulty the party has unlocked instead of the lowest.

I don’t see why you can’t choose to play at a higher level with your friends if you feel like it, even if you will be disadvantaged. That’s my own problem, I’ll deal with it. This system doesn’t entirely remove the concept of progression, and will mostly eliminate the problem of finding an available party.

Also, I’d just like to point out that there’s probably infinite levels of fractals, as implied by the name. They probably use an algorithm that spits out progressively higher health/damage bosses as the level increase, with only a noticeable difficulty plateau after level 10 that’s probably manually implemented. Reducing the number of fractal levels by 10 times still makes it infinity.

There’s also an Android app that uses the site’s data if you don’t want to alt tab. (It can poll the server and notify you when specific dungeon postings are created as well, something the site won’t do.)

https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.threesixtydev.fotohlfg

Someone also made a desktop app as well and he’s working on implementing an overlay with a hotkey to bring it up in-game… That’s also promising (I don’t have the link for that one though…)

Grene Jello.4651:

Freohr.7905:

Grene Jello.4651:

Do you do make good point, yeah I blew up a bit there, which doesn’t really create a comply environment for new players. I should be less harsh with my criticisms, I think I should avoid obvious flaming threads all together, its not worth the stress. Which is why I’ll let some of your more choice words slide.

I guess it just really burns me to hear the arrogance of some players knowing that Anet houses some of the highest regarded pioneers of gaming and brightest/creative minds in the MMO space today. I sometimes feel like firing back with the same fervor and bad taste that is heaped on Anet by seemingly mediocre minds.

You’re right. You should just avoid them. In fact, please do the general community a favor and get the kitten out of the forums completely. Take your ridiculous over 9000 level fanboi’ism with you too. The only minds around here being mediocre are yours and Arena Net’s. If you truly think this Fractal difficulty level thing was a good idea then you’re a clown, plain and simple. People having to use a third-party website to get Fractal parties means the game’s kittening broken. If you can’t see this and still think whoever made this system is a “pioneer” of gaming then there is no hope for you.

Now please eject yourself from the forums, saving yourself stress and saving me from having to make an irritable post.

You’re mad, I can tell.

You’re also ignorant, but I’ll help you rather than flame you.

---

<snip>

---

tldr

So Mike O’Brien (president of ArenaNet) created an archiving file format called MPQ that’s been used in video games as far back as Diablo I and most recently Diablo III, not to mention World of Warcraft and all its expansions along with every other game Blizzard has released.

If that’s not a pioneer, tell me who/what is.

Tag you’re it.

While there is a degree of impressiveness to that, this article singing his praises was back in 1999. We’re on a GW2 forum, you’re intelligent enough to know I’m not talking about whatever O’Brien and his team did back in 1999, I’m appraising the dungeon system in GW2, particularly for Fractals.

Regardless of whether they pioneered something back in the 90’s, there’s certainly nothing fresh about what they’re doing with FoTM. If you honestly don’t think it’s bad that people are forced to sit in Lion’s Arch for ages, or use a third-party website to find a dungeon group in-game then that’s fine. I think you’re a blind fanboy if you honestly believe that, but whatever.

I’m not a hater, GW2 got a lot of things right and they deserve praise for creating such an awesome world, but I’m not going to sit and lick O’Brien’s shoes and tell him that FoTM’s difficulty system is good, because it’s not. It’s terrible.

Grene Jello.4651:

If that’s not a pioneer, tell me who/what is.

Tag you’re it.

Brad McQuaid help “pioneer” the Everquest franchise which kickstarted MMO’s into a full 3D world, which still last and is supported today. If it wasn’t for UO/EQ WoW/GW might have been VERY different since WoW was made with the ideas founded though Everquest ideals (levels/classes/dungeons/raids systems etc) but with a more streamlined approach to both PvE/PvP I would call that a mark to be made.

Then he went on to make Vanguard, and we saw what happens when someone is unwilling to listen to others for advice or ignore the non-internal/critiques of the game.

People make mistakes – shocking I know.

Why would ppl defend this sytem its so fail, sitting in la lfg or lfm is more boring then work, if anet aim was to create a game which has zero to little rewards and drives ppl away by quitting to play tetris or counting bricks on the wall which in my opinon is a whole lot more entertaining then mission accomplished…………….