Guild Wars 2

I keep seeing people shouting around that they are a “tank speced warrior” when they are lfg for dungeons.

What exactly are they trying to accomplish by building a difficult to kill character at the expense of damage?

I mean they have no way to hold aggro so their teammates are going to die just as fast, they can’t tank FOR their group members.

I guess they could focus running around healing downed teammates, but you don’t really need to be tank speced to do that, I mean if you and your target are being buried under a mound of attacks or aoes getting your ally up is going to be near impossible anyway.

So why not just bring a balanced spec instead of trying to force the trinity into a game where it does not belong? I mean is dodging really so hard that they need tank spec just not to die ever 3-4 seconds?

It’s just years and years of holy trinity MMOs that shaped peoples expectations of these type of games. It’s not that easy to break free from it and some will die trying to hammer tanks and healers in GW2, no matter what.

Being able to soak up damage leads to mobs staying in place. Mobs staying in place longer leads to dps not kiting, which in turn leads to mobs dieing faster. Mobs dieing faster leads to faster runs. Faster runs leads to everything you want faster. So for the people spec tankier and know how to use their abilities to keep mobs, we salute you.

Going to a tanking extreme is obviously not the answer.

However, it is VERY useful to run with a melee-specced character that has either Traits or gear specced for Toughness/Healing/Vitality. For instance, I run an Engineer where most of my traits atm are in Alchemy and Inventions. I have a lot of healing power, and also a lot of toughness. I can absorb more hits than your average medium-armor wearer, and heal up faster.

However, all my gear is decked out for precision and condition damage. I will eventually be able to trait some power in there as well, giving me another damage boost. With sigils and runes on armor and weapons, I’m essentially a jack of both trades, but I’m obviously not going to be as tanky as the full Vit/Tough engie, nor as DPS as the full Power/Precision/CD engie.

Still, I find that running hybrid classes is the way to go most of the time for dungeons.

Survivability is key. I’m a shout specced warrior in cleric/knight gear. I don’t advertise this — actually when I lfg I don’t even bother to say my class. Honestly I cannot imagine running with less survivability. As it is, getting downed is such a rarity and dying almost never happens now. I actually profit from dungeon runs.

I have to disagree with OP’s point that you can’t hold aggro. This simply isn’t the case. The difference here is that I have no control over who the mob picks to single out but usually it’s me. That goes for trash packs and bosses. Dunno if it’s my class or my gear or what but fights like Kohler, or Controller or Plunderer in HotW to name a few will always focus on me the entire fight. Even when another warrior is in the group it has always been me that these enemies go for.

Aggro is a bit of a mystery but it’s there.

tank = not glass cannon build nor slightly DPS specced in this game.

My warrior plays support as a tank build. While others get one shotted I don’t usually.

It was easy to break free of it in City of Heroes / Villians. But then agianst mobs didn’t just run up to you and hit you 3 times for a kill in that game either. they just swarmed you in mass.

Straight from the Guild Wars 2 official guide @ page 495:

" This process is called tanking in many games, and it’s still an important concept in Guild Wars 2. The new spin on this is that many professions can tank."

“Change to a healing skill that helps everyone. Find boons that add to the group’s survival or damage output, and make those a top priority in big fights.”

The trinity is still here in Guild Wars 2, just that every professions are able to fill into the dps, tank, or support role.

Urrelles.4018:

It was easy to break free of it in City of Heroes / Villians. But then agianst mobs didn’t just run up to you and hit you 3 times for a kill in that game either. they just swarmed you in mass.

For someone who plays alot of MMO’s you are negative as all hell. I don’t think I have seen a "this works for me " post from you yet. Just BLAH BLAH I CANT DO IT THEREFORE ITS BAD BLAH BLAH.

I’ve actually seen a greatsword guardian do a fine job of holding off NPCs while the rest of the group unloaded on them. It’s not unheard of for a single character to build and play tanky, but it’s not feasible to believe you can be the sole defender of the group in all situations.

People in general are just so ingrained in that type of thinking. Honestly GW2 emphasizes an idea that “The only one responsible for you, is you.” Its not the ‘tank’ or ’healer’s’ job to keep you alive, you are.

Gies.3824:

Urrelles.4018:

It was easy to break free of it in City of Heroes / Villians. But then agianst mobs didn’t just run up to you and hit you 3 times for a kill in that game either. they just swarmed you in mass.

For someone who plays alot of MMO’s you are negative as all hell. I don’t think I have seen a "this works for me " post from you yet. Just BLAH BLAH I CANT DO IT THEREFORE ITS BAD BLAH BLAH.

I did in the Guardian thread when I was figuring out my build. Right now I’m quite vocal about the poor state of dungeons in one of my post I made. So all of my post are gonna be pissy.

BTW I haven’t gotten any real feedback except one post telling me info on what I could do to improve my situation. All I’ve heard is the same thing over and over.

“BLAH BLAH BLAH, Its so easy. Why can’t you learn like me. BLAH BLAH BLAH. You all whine. It’s fine as is. Here’s some mundane general tip that all MMO gamers know.”

Nethelli.4023:

I’ve actually seen a greatsword guardian do a fine job of holding off NPCs while the rest of the group unloaded on them. It’s not unheard of for a single character to build and play tanky, but it’s not feasible to believe you can be the sole defender of the group in all situations.

The swords don’t seem to work for me. Now I’ve tanked quite a few times using a 2 H hammer. It’s hard to use as Guardian but it does deliver in CC and adding protection buff constantly.

Ergo Proxy.6219:

I mean they have no way to hold aggro so their teammates are going to die just as fast, they can’t tank FOR their group members.

Wrong.

Aggro priority tends to focus on the player with the highest toughness/armor. Go find a player with around 3k+ armor and you’ll see time and time again the bosses/mobs center on that individual.

Using the Spider boss in TA-Exp (up route) for example. My guardian who has around 3,000 armor only needs to attack her once or twice before she will just stick to me like glue. In turn I can just rotate Shield of Wrath/Wall of Reflection/Santuary/Retreat and tank her.

I have numerous tips I have posted on fight mechanics as well as quite a few private messages explaining things to people.

Gunzwei, that explains a lot.

When I was in Ac with my Guardian I was rolling with mace and shield and a bunch of toughness gear. Every fight I had a mob on me or the other warrior while our elementals were aggro free for a while.

However in pulls of more than 2 enemies aggro seemed very random.

Hahaha, I can tell you with complete certainty that having a tank specced person in the party is guaranteed to make every dungeon run incredibly smoother than without. I would rather wait around for a tank to show up and have some smooth runs than take anything and have one run that takes forever to complete. Having a support-focused elementalist or engineer does wonders for survivability of everyone too. There’s a reason the holy trinity exists and that most MMOs today are built around it- it’s because it works. The holy trinity exists in GW2, it just isn’t necessary like in other games. You dont HAVE to bring a guardian, but it sure helps a lot. It’s not a gaming mechanic, it’s a gaming term.

Tank specs can face-tank a lot of trash with proper support from group members. For example, support thief can almost perma-aoe-blind or perma-weakness mobs that, along with your defensive traits/skills (e.g. blocks, regeneration, condition removals), allow you to sit there and take a lot of punishments.

Thief support skills: https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/thief/Kirin-s-Guide-for-Aspiring-PVE-Support-Thieves. Other nifty skills: single pull mob from a pack, stealth revive, etc. LFM for one next time you’re building a group!

Blindness is not effective on bosses, but I’m sure other classes can offer other types of supports to let tank specs survive in boss encounters.

Hahaha, I can tell you with complete certainty that having a tank specced person in the party is guaranteed to make every dungeon run incredibly smoother than without. I would rather wait around for a tank to show up and have some smooth runs than take anything and have one run that takes forever to complete. Having a support-focused elementalist or engineer does wonders for survivability of everyone too. There’s a reason the holy trinity exists and that most MMOs today are built around it- it’s because it works. The holy trinity exists in GW2, it just isn’t necessary like in other games. You dont HAVE to bring a guardian, but it sure helps a lot. It’s not a gaming mechanic, it’s a gaming term.

(for some reason the quote button is missing in this thread (or this sub-forum?))

if this is correct (presonally, i don’t necessarily believe it is, so far), ArenaNet failed to deliver what they promised.

Aggro is hold-able in a “tanky spec” I run healing shouts warrior with axe/axe and 95% of the time everything is glued to me – run in, hit “on my mark” > axe 5 skill and you’re good to go. (which can be good or bad depending on how fast we kill stuff as a team).

Sometimes i’ve noticed i can’t drop aggro even when i switch to ranged and run away and don’t attack for awhile, it just follows and stays glued to me forever.

I’ve even seen a guardian be able to cycle defensive abilities to keep a boss of Twilight Arbor that’s known to one shot everyone in one spot for 50% of its life.

It’s possible. It’s just not with only gear. You have to be good about dodging and using your abilities, and you have to know what abilities to cycle in and out.

Nemui.6753:

(for some reason the quote button is missing in this thread (or this sub-forum?)

The forums are bugged, it happens randomly, however, copying a permalink for a post (that button is always there) and typing /quote at the end gives you the quote link.

80 Guardian here.

Mace + Shield + 90 extra toughness + Healing when spreading boons = Tank.

My symbol heals me, my shouts heal me, my heal heals me, my virtues heal me or block damage.

Truly I am the tank of the group and I give up nothing in damage because I apply boons to enhance everyone around me and the damage I do is still excellent.

I’ve ran the same build in sPvP and I kill more than I die.

I don’t know what a tank warrior runs but damage mitigation goes a long way in boss encounters during explore modes.

I like to run PvP builds in dungeons, too.

The un-life is strong in this one!

Holy kitten people don’t necro.

Was honestly shocked to read about it, but then I read the ‘a year ago’ timestamp.

Ha, I remember 1 year ago when people thought anchor builds were a good idea. I’m looking at you Strife’s AH build.

The necro in this thread is OP.

I nearly replied to one of the upper posts…what became buried should stay buried

If only necromancers were this powerful ingame.

I guess this mentality is still alive to this day, with all the staff guards and such. My boons help!

must be fun rping as gandolf with that lootstick

While we’re on the subject anyway, I’m suprised that necro didn’t get more hype during the “must have tankchor” phase of the game, that’s pretty much all the profession is even good for.

It was their chance and they blew it I guess.

Gyler.8150:

I guess this mentality is still alive to this day, with all the staff guards and such. My boons help!

Lindbur.2537:

must be fun rping as gandolf with that lootstick

A lot of newer/more casual guardians (players in general) are clueless about weaponswapping and just camp one weapon for the whole fight.

Staff guardian can be a good next step to becoming a better player, as then the player treats the second set as a prebuff set (or oh-kitten-heal set in the case of a staff).

All this said, sub-optimal weapons overall can be optimal in the right group setting. Pre-patch, even random eles in CoE would know to drop FGS but not stack might, so staff 4 at least gave the party 12 stacks of might before FGS4 got used on Alpha.

Actually tanking is working in GW2. If you want to know how, read this article: http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Aggro

It’s not like in most of the games that tank can stand still and be healed, but he can take some hits and hold mobs in place for long enought to nuke them by the rest of your team. For most of the mobs / bosses it’s enought to just stay melee and have enought armor to become their only target for the whole fight. I’m not sure if this approach is faster or not, but it is for sure easier.

Not all mobs have the same aggro mechanics.

I was reading the original post and was like “holy kitten.” Then I looked at the dates and I laughed.

Talyn.3295:

I was reading the original post and was like “holy kitten.” Then I looked at the dates and I laughed.

Thinking you could tank was dumb even in 2013. I don’t think the whole “anchor guardian” thing survived more than a few months past release. I remember it pretty well since it was the whole “zerk war best dps guard only for tank” argument that made me start theorycrafting seriously, otherwise I would probably have been happy with being the only DPS guardian in existence for the next six months.

yayuuu.9420:

Actually tanking is working in GW2. If you want to know how, read this article: http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Aggro

It’s not like in most of the games that tank can stand still and be healed, but he can take some hits and hold mobs in place for long enought to nuke them by the rest of your team. For most of the mobs / bosses it’s enought to just stay melee and have enought armor to become their only target for the whole fight. I’m not sure if this approach is faster or not, but it is for sure easier.

NOOOOOOO don’t spread LIES. We already have enough tanky people that think that they bring something to the group even if they don’t. Don’t give them another reason to hold back groups. Surviability is for you little kitten only and bring nothing to the group except if in full DPS you die each 2sec. Having enough survivability to match you level of skill is the only reason to use defensive stats or healing in PvE.

It comes from other games.

When I first bought GW2, I knew they’d killed the trinity, but I didn’t realize to what extent. I thought that the stats Toughness, Vitality, and Healing Power were more useful (before we knew numbers), and so I felt that I could serve as a lynchpin for other team members to survive if I was a bit tankier. My first Warrior build for PvE was Soldier’s armor, Berserker’s trinkets, Berserker’s weapons, and healing shouts. I thought that I could have “solid DPS while still being able to take a hit for another player that was very squishy”. I mean, it works… Sort of, but at the time we didn’t realize how easy instances were and how best to handle situations.

Nowadays we know better. You can scarcely do much to save your team outside of crazy amazing utility builds like Hammer Guardian, and so it’s just not worth it in those cases. It’s a learning process, and again, some people just refuse to change the way they think even when faced with unobjectionable evidence.

I am a big fan of invincible builds. When I first starting playing the game, I wanted to try godmode tanking with lifesteal food when they had no internal cooldown and knights gear. They then nerfed lifesteal food and I can’t godmode tank so I went to berserker playstyle.

Players playing roles on a role playing game… me god… the world we live in.

The “role” in role playing game doesn’t mean “role” as in healer, tank, support, dps. It means the portrayal of a persona different from yours.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Role-playing

Mesket.5728:

Players playing roles on a role playing game… me god… the world we live in.

Lol.

This world so freaky. Necros errywhere.

DigitalKirin.9714:

The “role” in role playing game doesn’t mean “role” as in healer, tank, support, dps. It means the portrayal of a persona different from yours.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Role-playing

That can be applied as being different from the 99.9% of the players running zerk gear.

Mesket.5728:

DigitalKirin.9714:

The “role” in role playing game doesn’t mean “role” as in healer, tank, support, dps. It means the portrayal of a persona different from yours.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Role-playing

That can be applied as being different from the 99.9% of the players running zerk gear.

Most people don’t assume any role portrayal in most MMOs, holy trinity or not.

But I am a roleplayer?
I know Lilith is too!

contrary to whatever anyone might believe, in real life I am NOT a 10 foot tall norn Necromancer. and LIlith is not a 3 foot tall asura fashionista!

see!
role play!

Ropechef.6192:

But I am a roleplayer?
I know Lilith is too!

contrary to whatever anyone might believe, in real life I am NOT a 10 foot tall norn Necromancer. and LIlith is not a 3 foot tall asura fashionista!

see!
role play!

Nope I’m a 5 foot tall small eared asura fashionista irl. my poor tiny ears…

But two or three people equate to 99.9% of MMORPG player population?

Edit: Given the amount of characters Lilith has made, it’s possible, but no probable. o_o)-b

point….

alright, I concede.

DigitalKirin.9714:

But two or three people equate to 99.9% of MMORPG player population?

Edit: Given the amount of characters Lilith has made, it’s possible, but no probable. o_o)-b

I would only like to say that because TC is one of the most populated NA servers and a high percentage of those players roleplay somewhat that a good amount of people do actually assume roles in game. However it is not a majority, but I’d throw around the 10% estimation of NA players assume a role in terms of roleplaying at least one of their characters.