Guild Wars 2

Nretep.2564:

LordByron.8369:

like a dev that enjoys to nerf elementalist

you sure they nerfed the elementalists? wow …

they nerfed D/D and still major nerfs are coming…..look at interview

Next is fiery GS, arcane and water traitline.

actually, it’s the opposite. In MMORPGs the market is based on the amount of money the game or an average player has. The economy is “destroyed” when too much exists, it’s called inflation. But how do you “create” money in MMORPGs ? Either by direct rewards from mob drops or events or by selling items to an NPC – meaning CoF.
The developers try to counter inflation by taxes. Removing money from the game by taxes or items you sell from a NPC. “Expensive” things you buy from NPCs are higher crafting mats and salvage kits. ANet found them lacking, so the guild (commendation) items also cost up to 5g. Just to remove money from the game.

Now let’s look on TP brokers … they buy from TP and sell on TP. They make the game lose money by paying tax, while increasing price of underpriced items.
You can’t prevent players from becoming brokers in MMORPGs without forbidding trading at all. But you can use them to regulate the market. This is what ANet did.

You know its not so.

They make an unreasonable amount of money creating an false lack of offer by buying supply.

Its not the real economy motsly because there is no sort of antitrust or something against market manipulation in game.

But what is being made in game is not legal in real economy.

Let think for a moment what happens when a vital supply is controlled by few people…..
Wars are fought over it.

As when there is too much gold (there are already gold sinks in this game for that) they have to omuch gold thus best items have unreasonable prices.

Those people just makes best stuff cost 10X its should so we pay for their legendaries and luxury items they have in quantity.

I don’t get some people at all. Complain about no farming spots and no way to make money, then complain that the 1 way to make money needs to be nerfed because of players attitudes. I assume you only use GW2LFG and don’t just stand outside CoF? If you did just stand outside you would realise that usually within 2 mins you would have a group no matter what class you were.

At least try to get in before you make stupid accusations. Or even, and I know this is a big thing to ask, you could make your own group? At the end of the day everybody makes the same money per run and take it from somebody who has warrior guard and mesmer levelled – speedruns mean nothing, it’s just psychological. The main money maker from speedruns is that people stay for loads of runs at a time, therefore less downtime looking for members.

Nretep.2564:

LordByron.8369:

they should not nerf cof before fixing market manipulation….

People playing with market does 10X a cof runner does with the difference that all their gain is at normal players expenses…….

It’s called “economics”. Do you want to ban trading, buying and selling?
It’s a natural way, even in real life. Buying and selling stocks has high risk and high profit.

Im Mudbone.1437:

ANET could charge a SALES TAX since they charge a listing fee, this would KINDA slow things down on the TP with flippers.

They do. 5% listing fee, 10% sales tax.
Sell for 100 gold, get 85g.

I thought I made myself clear by bolding the SALES TAX reference. Please re-read what I said, listing fee was also mentioned by me, I’m talking about a tax on SALES not listings.

I’ve read this thread.. and others about COF, and there is one thing missing:

Citadel of Flame is the ONE dungeon that you can get everyone to run. Everyone wants to make gold running the legendary CoF p1 speed runs!

Think of it as the gateway dungeon. This is the dungeon where dungeon noobs come to cut their teeth, and it’s fantastic for that.

Once players are comfortable with the mechanics of the bosses, etc., it gives us more confidence to beat down the doors of the other dungeons.

It’s good to have CoF, just as it is. It still requires teamwork, even if that teamwork is how to port through the boulders or cleanly dispatch the acolytes.

@Im Mudbone: I think you’re the one who needs to re-read… THERE IS A SALES TAX ALREADY.

@LordByron: You really have no idea what you’re talking about, and trying to make up new things to defend your ignorance. Instead of puffing up and jumping around, go read some books on the subject matter.

Allisa Wonderland.8192:

I’ve read this thread.. and others about COF, and there is one thing missing:

Citadel of Flame is the ONE dungeon that you can get everyone to run. Everyone wants to make gold running the legendary CoF p1 speed runs!

Think of it as the gateway dungeon. This is the dungeon where dungeon noobs come to cut their teeth, and it’s fantastic for that.

Once players are comfortable with the mechanics of the bosses, etc., it gives us more confidence to beat down the doors of the other dungeons.

It’s good to have CoF, just as it is. It still requires teamwork, even if that teamwork is how to port through the boulders or cleanly dispatch the acolytes.

@Im Mudbone: I think you’re the one who needs to re-read… THERE IS A SALES TAX ALREADY.

@LordByron: You really have no idea what you’re talking about, and trying to make up new things to defend your ignorance. Instead of puffing up and jumping around, go read some books on the subject matter.

I’m sorry but I have never seen a tax on something I bought on the TP. For LISTING an item to sell yes that’s called a LISTING FEE(fee not tax), but, not on purchases which is where a SALES tax comes into play. The fee to list something isn’t a sales tax. Think that you are at a grocery store.

Allisa Wonderland.8192:

Think of it as the gateway dungeon. This is the dungeon where dungeon noobs come to cut their teeth, and it’s fantastic for that.

There was AC for that and it arguably should have that role given its the first dungeon.

I agree OP.

I’ve heard of farming spots being nerfed in the open world that yield less gold per hour than from repeating the Citadel of Flame dungeon’s path 1. How does that make sense? ArenaNet is willing to trash farming spots that make less gold per hour than CoF yet they keep CoF untouched to this day. I’ve heard of some pretty lame THREATS made by CoF runners just to avoid the nerf bat too. They’re along the lines of, “If you nerf the CoF dungeon many people will quit and the economy will be destroyed.”

That. Is. Bullkitten.

ArenaNet is willing to develop all of these Living Story dungeons and discontinue them as temporary content yet they are unwilling to rework on the existing dungeons so that they can’t be complete in a mere 4 minutes. Are you kidding me? You can keep the rewards from CoF the same or even boost them up a little along with all the potential gold per hour from the other dungeons too, just increase the difficulty so that they can’t be completed in mere minutes by a group of overpowered PvE classes in berserker’s armor and fix the exploits/glitches that make them easier. Doesn’t matter if they focus on CoF they will move on to HotW and farm that dungeon to the ground afterwards.

Not only that, people still use mesmer portals and teleportation guns to switch paths in CoE and avoid the turret mechanic from the golem boss in CoE. ArenaNet still allows people to simply sneak past Kholer in AC, WHY? You can still avoid a boss in Arah. People still avoid Subject Alpha’s AoE by standing right under him or stacking together and in the middle of his AoE circles to avoid damage. Jumping into a hole in the wall in HotW path 1 will allow your party to DPS Ginva the Butcher down without a risk of party wipe, similar to how you could range down the Howling King in old AC path 1. Et cetera, Et cetera, Et cetera. I’m sure there’s plenty of other exploits/glitches I haven’t seen in dungeons.

Also, ArenaNet should provide “trash mobs” in dungeons with plenty of CC to keep parties from simply running past them without a care in the world and expand their leashes from their initial spawn points so that they don’t lose aggro a couple of seconds after running past them so they take the walk of shame back to where they spawned, it’s a dungeon, why should they have leashes in the first place? People kill the berserker mobs before the second room with Subject Alpha in CoE because they will follow you in there and provide problems while fighting Subject ALpha. People run past the gravelings in AC after the Spider Queen boss because they know those gravelings will just run back to the tunnel they spawned in.

It’s not like there’s any safe zones/towns of AFK players in dungeons like in the open world.

I don’t think they should nerf cof, I think they should increase the rewards of other dungeons, like doing arah (A difficult dungeon/path, not necessarily arah) gives you 50s and more karma at the end, with a higher rate of getting exotics and rares, that way, people who do other dungeons will also get stuff

Jovel.5706:

I agree OP.

I’ve heard of farming spots being nerfed in the open world that yield less gold per hour than from repeating the Citadel of Flame dungeon’s path 1. How does that make sense? ArenaNet is willing to trash farming spots that make less gold per hour than CoF yet they keep CoF untouched to this day. I’ve heard of some pretty lame THREATS made by CoF runners just to avoid the nerf bat too. They’re along the lines of, “If you nerf the CoF dungeon many people will quit and the economy will be destroyed.”

That. Is. Bullkitten.

ArenaNet is willing to develop all of these Living Story dungeons and discontinue them as temporary content yet they are unwilling to rework on the existing dungeons so that they can’t be complete in a mere 4 minutes. Are you kidding me? You can keep the rewards from CoF the same or even boost them up a little along with all the potential gold per hour from the other dungeons too, just increase the difficulty so that they can’t be completed in mere minutes by a group of overpowered PvE classes in berserker’s armor and fix the exploits/glitches that make them easier. Doesn’t matter if they focus on CoF they will move on to HotW and farm that dungeon to the ground afterwards.

Not only that, people still use mesmer portals and teleportation guns to switch paths in CoE and avoid the turret mechanic from the golem boss in CoE. ArenaNet still allows people to simply sneak past Kholer in AC, WHY? You can still avoid a boss in Arah. People still avoid Subject Alpha’s AoE by standing right under him or stacking together and in the middle of his AoE circles to avoid damage. Jumping into a hole in the wall in HotW path 1 will allow your party to DPS Ginva the Butcher down without a risk of party wipe, similar to how you could range down the Howling King in old AC path 1. Et cetera, Et cetera, Et cetera. I’m sure there’s plenty of other exploits/glitches I haven’t seen in dungeons.

Also, ArenaNet should provide “trash mobs” in dungeons with plenty of CC to keep parties from simply running past them without a care in the world and expand their leashes from their initial spawn points so that they don’t lose aggro a couple of seconds after running past them so they take the walk of shame back to where they spawned, it’s a dungeon, why should they have leashes in the first place? People kill the berserker mobs before the second room with Subject Alpha in CoE because they will follow you in there and provide problems while fighting Subject ALpha. People run past the gravelings in AC after the Spider Queen boss because they know those gravelings will just run back to the tunnel they spawned in.

It’s not like there’s any safe zones/towns of AFK players in dungeons like in the open world.

They already said that they will NOT do anything about skipping trash. Why? Because it makes dungeons too long for anyone to bother doing them unless they need something specific(achievements or tokens). The amount of HP that dungeon mobs have and the ridiculous damage that a lot of them have combined with terrible or no loot makes them a pointless and annoying waste of time. This isn’t WoW where every mob has a chance of dropping expensive items for a few seconds of killing(and yes, I’ve been there, farming trash in raids for items).
And Kholer is an optional boss. They have said that he is there just as a bonus waypoint.
Stop forcing yourselves to kill everything just because it’s there.

Khyber.2693:

If you don’t want people farming in this game please nerf them all the farming spots and not just everything but CoF.

Honestly, you nerf and destroy every other farming spot and leave this in the game. What are the professions that are not Warrior and Mesmer supposed to do for money? You nerf the farming spots all of us have access to, and leave this in the game. I literally have access to no ways to really make money, yet my friend who just happened to pick a mesmer just now found about speed runs and proceeds to rub in my face the gold he makes a day.

All I ask is that if you nerf farming spots you nerf them all, and this would mean reworking all dungeons (most). So they can’t be farmed like CoF was. Put some mechanics in dungeons that favor tanky characters and not just zerkers dodging everything. Aetherblade Retreat was a great start.

+1 ???

Allisa Wonderland.8192:

@LordByron: You really have no idea what you’re talking about, and trying to make up new things to defend your ignorance. Instead of puffing up and jumping around, go read some books on the subject matter.

Well despite a random personal attack without any logic behind suggest me you are just trying to convince yourself what you do is not wrong.

I’ll just ask this:
Can anyone on this forum negate that after real money the FASTEST and more reliable way of getting gold is flipping market?

How in % would you compare it to any form of farming actually in the game?

So while farming stuff despite bad and boring is still part of a mmorpg, turning this game in Market hero more than it is, would be even worse……

At least with cof1 you can still buy that 380G precursor that was bought at 250 and relisted with 3 fakes offers the same day…

He should at least avoid putting sales and fake offers at the same time beacuse even ignorant people like me can see what s happening….

P.S: on a side note its not COF1 that need to be nerfed, but are the profession with absurd DPS that can simply make ANY dungeon a gold mine.

Nerf cof and they go CoE, nerf CoE and trust me they can make money even in FRACTALS.

Ensign.2189:

There’s so much money being generated in CoF that nerfing it without also buffing gold rewards elsewhere in the game would crash every market on the TP.

I welcome the Collapse

I’m just not sure I agree with the OP when he claims Aether Dungeon was a good start. The only dangerous things to Zerkers in it really, are the Strikers who just so happen to be easily CC’d and guess which classes usually have plenty of that too??… the ones used for Zerking. …it doesn’t do crap to help the “team-split” themed classes such as Thieves, Rangers, and Engies that operate more on condition removal, crippling / stealth, & such…

Maybe I’m an outlier here but I thought Aether was still too easy :\

And just as nerfing CoF would result in everyone farming CoE, nerfing Warrior damage would result in everyone farming with the next best DPS class (I’m thinking Guards seeing as Thieves and LH Elementalists can’t faceroll as easily.) Then it’s just “ZERK MES LF3 ZERK GUARDS COE P1 FARM $$$$$$ PING GEAR” and you haven’t solved the problem at all…

AH HAHAHAH….. comparing even COE’s shortest runs to the skill floor of COF…

You almost had me for a second there… CoE’s not even a DPS test aside from Alpha…
It’s more like an arcade pack of minigames or something.. especially the golem parts.
Most of these kiddies couldn’t even get past the floor lazers… (how’s that for a skill floor?)
Just imagine if Anet also made it so you couldn’t even glitch Alpha??

ilr.9675:

CoE’s not even a DPS test aside from Alpha…

You forgot the destroyer. That one is a true dps test as far as “speedrunning vs non speed” goes because you can only speed run path 3 efficiently if you can kill that destroyer in one go. Anything else wouldn’t bit “a bit” slower, it would be much slower.

@ilr,
I can’t really tell if you’re talking up how difficult CoE is or talking down how good PuG farmers are, or both.

I actually wouldn’t mind all Alpha battles being like the end of p3 where he drops AoE’s no matter how you stack him, but if you mean not being able to hide inside him to avoid the unblockable Teeth of Mordremoth, then maybe a rightly specced Guard or Ele might be necessary for some burst healing after each hit so the rest can still focus on burning down his tiny health pool. Either way I’ve breezed through CoE1 with many PuG’s and it would be nice if it became the new popular dungeon as I believe the skill level of all players would improve to cater to the harder content. Not really calling CoE hard but CoF is just stupid easy.

CoF1 is not so easy for mesmers _

the first pull of 2 mobs behind tower while evading with even 1 sec delay nerf is quite difficult.

After them you have to keep the mob there and use feedback at the proper time, that while doing dps.

The part around the cage requires against a good use of skills and evasion much more difficult than any Alpha fight.

Finally at the boss Using feedback to reflect his projectile on reaction and evading all stuff requires again to be focused.

A well executed speed run is not much less difficult than other dungeon…..considering also that the “perfect team” make trivial any part of the game…..even fotm 48 are easy with 2 guardians 2 warriors and a thief or mesmer.

The difference is that in fotm you wipe and in cof1 you get yelled at for losing 1 minute :|

The issue is almost the same…

The first time you face a dungeon it sfrustrating because mechanics are not properly explained in game….
After you learn the stuff, its Always the same routine of commands….

P.S: coe laser is difficult because GW2 has a terrible collision detection….that is all…visual clues as Always are lying…as in moltend facility you hve to adapt to invisible stuff (in MF i used to jump in advance the attack and it was not due to lag).

the first pull of 2 mobs behind tower while evading with even 1 sec delay nerf is quite difficult.

…not really.

After them you have to keep the mob there and use feedback at the proper time, that while doing dps.

Mob pulls their arms back, put feedback up, soak up the attack.

…easy?

If Feedback expires and they’re still alive I just switch to GS and use knockback when they start choreographing their next attack.

The part around the cage requires against a good use of skills and evasion much more difficult than any Alpha fight.

Cage? If you mean acolytes, no not really. If you mean sitting in the braziers, focus pull then gs knockback is all you need.

Finally at the boss Using feedback to reflect his projectile on reaction and evading all stuff requires again to be focused.

Sure, it was a bit difficult the first maybe three times I did it on my mesmer, but the attack is very clearly choreographed so it’s quite easy to feedback.

P.S: coe laser is difficult because GW2 has a terrible collision detection….that is all…visual clues as Always are lying…as in moltend facility you hve to adapt to invisible stuff (in MF i used to jump in advance the attack and it was not due to lag).

COE laser is difficult for scrubs who don’t know when to jump in to the lasers and that standing on the far side keeps you out of their one-shot if they’re coming towards you.

@colesy

As i said it all comes how this game is designed:
difficult until you complete it once then uber easy..

Fotm48 is not much different from a PERFECT cof1 run….

The risk is low (losing seconds) but the perfect execution is not so easy as you make it seems.

For the coe part….seems you don t know what a collision issue is…….its that stuff that makes what you see different from what it is.

That happens possibly due to asura/human/norn different size in appearance…but not in hitbox.

Vertical laser are not an issue.

Also i don t think that standing in the side is intended…..but i don t even need that…..

But shows perfectly how people find workaround to bypass mechanics or part of them and then complain something is easy.

IndigoSundown.5419:

Bots and rangers can’t farm CoF.

/thread