Guild Wars 2

Dingle.2743:

Redscope.6215:

Khisanth.2948:

At least two problems with this. Certain mobs are just completely out of the way. In CM some seem to be behind closed doors. Many paths do not have a chest at the end, for all those there is never a reason to go for 100%.

If you’re looking for a reason to go 100%, DDO did it perfectly.

Number of kills, objects destroyed, and ‘side-quest’ objectives completed were a few of the many ways dungeons racked up their own set of points to be tacked on to the final run-end reward.

That encouraged people to kill, break, find, help, and essentially ‘complete’ as much as they could to get that top-end reward.

Perhaps a system like that could be worked out for dungeon tokens on the ‘first run’ daily bonus.

Logged in to say something along these lines.

If you don’t want to give players an incentive to kill the early monsters on the basis that they’ll clear the early content of the dungeon and then leave to respawn the enemies, hence never clearing the dungeon – instead give the players a reward at the end of the dungeon based on the amount of content they cleared.

For example, rewarding dungeon tokens based on total kills rewarded after clearing (perhaps 1 per regular enemy, 2 per veteran and 3 per champion), or have mobs drop keys which are needed to open chests that spawn at the end of the dungeon – incentives that make players want to kill mobs, but also want to clear the dungeon.

Not only that, but continuing from this reward strategy, you can essentially ‘build-in’ speed running methods for people who have less time to complete content but still desire to make progress towards a goal which requires specific content to be done.

In other words, you can do a speed run, and it’ll be legit, but you’ll end up with more loot (given a relatively same amount of total time spent) if you take the time to 100% the dungeon.

Robert, you’re right about the path of least resistance.

I think the thing that would get people to clear instead of skip would be if you made skipping trash more trouble than it’s worth. If you made it easier to actually kill the trash rather than try to run past it. Greatly reduce the HP levels of the mobs, replace the champions with elites, and elites with veterans. Increase the damage done of the mobs if you want to keep the challenge. This makes it so killing trash can be done quickly, gives people a reason to use their CC skills (and to see those CC skills actually be a big factor in victory). I would also reduce the amount of trash in certain dungeons.

Fractal trash is a great example, the Ascalon fractal in particular. Easy enough for good groups to breeze through, but hard enough to destroy bad groups that don’t pay attention or play badly.

Robert Hrouda.1327:

It’s one of those human things to do something with the path of least resistance and danger, especially when there is a reward at the end. I could make enemies never drop their aggro on players and force them to fight every single mob, but I don’t see that as a viable solution right now.
I think the better solution is to look at why people are skipping things, and approach from a different angle. Trash mobs have too much HP, and can’t be counted on for lucrative drops from a Risk/Time vs Reward, so people interested in making money (most groups) aren’t incentivized to do it, whereas the end chest/boss are more guaranteed and accountable returns on time and risk. I also think there is something to be said about interesting trash mob mechanics making them more enjoyable of a fight.
I can’t make the rewards from trash mobs so lucrative though that people just farm the first couple trash mobs/boss in a dungeon and then rinse/repeat. We encountered this when people just farmed the first boss in an instance and then restarted it (earlier around launch time), and we had to adjust the content as a result. It’s a fine line you have to walk to encourage players to get to the end, but make the process of getting there rewarding enough as well.

I don’t imagine this next update will resolve all the skipping behavior. The path of least resistance is engrained in people, and even if I do everything I could to incentivize people, there will still be those who skip stuff. I have been fixing exploits that will require players to complete more of the events in dungeons, but I am sure people will still skip what they can to get to their end goal.

For now I would encourage those not looking to skip to find some folks who don’t like skipping and make a guild with them… or maybe look for guilds that are dedicated to not skipping, and tag along with them. I’m in a couple of them (anonymously), and it really is an effective solution to playing the game the way you want to play it: Find other people with similar interests and band together with them.

Personally, I’ve never been a big fan of skipping mobs but since I’m not always the group leader, I don’t always make the call to kill everything.

With that said, would it hurt to bring back the increasingly rewarding bounty system of GW1? I think it was mostly used in Nightfall and EotN and often used for reputation grinds. Basically put, it worked like this: let’s say you normally get around 5~15 copper per kill, but after 25 kills, you start getting 15~30 copper per kill, and the coin-count could go up after every certain amount of kills. Heck! Even toss in an ever-increasing Magic Find buff, like gain a certain percentage of Magic Find per kill. Magic Find in dungeons seems popular for some groups despite the controversies surrounding it, but I think something like that would make Magic Find more interesting and beneficial for everyone in the party and not just the person wearing that set of gear.

What if trash mobs had a low (not too low) chance of dropping a token or two? The more difficult the enemy (normal, veteran, champion) the higher the chance.

If the chance to drop a token was a bit on the higher end, the daily reward of 60 tokens could come down slightly or tokens could be removed from bags of wondrous goods entirely.

The bags could even be transferred to trash mobs if they are a guaranteed drop from any 3 random trash mobs. Or even give trash a chance to drop an extra bag here and there. Just a few ideas.

Lyer.1905:

Robert, you’re right about the path of least resistance.

I think the thing that would get people to clear instead of skip would be if you made skipping trash more trouble than it’s worth. If you made it easier to actually kill the trash rather than try to run past it. Greatly reduce the HP levels of the mobs, replace the champions with elites, and elites with veterans. Increase the damage done of the mobs if you want to keep the challenge. This makes it so killing trash can be done quickly, gives people a reason to use their CC skills (and to see those CC skills actually be a big factor in victory). I would also reduce the amount of trash in certain dungeons.

Fractal trash is a great example, the Ascalon fractal in particular. Easy enough for good groups to breeze through, but hard enough to destroy bad groups that don’t pay attention or play badly.

You forgot to mention the fact that you’re carried by the mob of npcs that help you kill the trash.

I can’t speak for everyone obviously but I can tell you why I skip every aspect of dungeons I can. I’m there for tokens and that’s it, I’m not interested in the 3 wimpy tokens I get for a boss that I could have skipped, saving even a few minutes to get that big 60 amount at the end. I have to run these dungeons A LOT in order to get the gear I want, it’s repetitive and tedious…it’s a grind period. Anything I can do to cut down on that grind is good enough for me and that includes skipping content if available. Heck I’d run in to the last boss kill it for my daily tokens and leave if i was able.

Now don’t get me wrong, I like the dungeons a ton I believe they are not too long and not too short (well minus a few). I absolutely loved running through them the first time and seeing everything in all it’s glory. I dont even mind killing everything in the dungeon here and there, but after that first run I feel like I have so many runs to go for the gear that I’m just not interested in killing every single thing ten billion times over.

Let me give you an example. I have 6 80’s I run dungeons on all these characters because I like the skins on most (specifically AC). Lets say I want all the weapon types (in case I decided to change specs and experiment later) and at least two sets of armor (condition and power). Can you imagine how many tokens I need to collect to get all this gear for each character? That’s quite a bit of dungeon running, granted my choice and if I couldn’t skip things I probably wouldn’t bother so much, that’s just too much of a time sink.

So I’m not saying the dungeons are horrible because I think they’re some of the best I’ve seen in a game and I’m not saying give me free stuff, because I’m willing to put the effort in to get it. What I am saying is that from my point of view I’ve been there done that no reason to see it again if don’t have to. I’m getting what I want (still slowly I feel) while not feeling like I have to go through a lot of useless, and stale (or static) extra encounters (my opinion only).

I like having the option of skipping the encounter or not, but I’m a big fan of player options for different playstyles.

Just a different view point on the question.

EDIT: I wanted to add that Trash is just lame, honestly I’d prefer a dungeon that gives you multiple boss fights that were interesting and perhaps a little random to provide variety. Like say you have a dungeon with 5 boss fights, each fight takes like I dunno 3 minutes roughly but the dungeon is capable of spawning from a pool for 10 possible bosses so each time you go into the dungeon you have no idea which boss is going to spawn. This to me sounds much better than kill 5 useless trash mobs (reason they are called trash mobs) then 5 more than 5 more then a boss then 5 more, etc. If you’re going for effect and environment it can be accomplished in other ways than trash mobs.

I understand it’s a pacing mechanic, but is it really a necessary and fun one? You’ve broken out the box with a lot of different things in this game, why not shoot for breaking out of this one too =)

What I find hilarious about these posts is that it’s basically summed into this.

“I don’t like the way you do things and things should be done my way.”

You are free to make non-skip LFGs and find like minded people. People that want to skip can find groups that want to skip. That’s the beauty of it, choice. Forcing people into something they don’t want to do is basically asking for something to be not done.

Sure, fix exploits which trivialize an encounter but making mobs perma-aggro is NOT a solution. Nor is “stacking-MF on kills” as that basically rewards players who put in a lot of time/have a lot of time.

I would prefer dungeons have low amounts trash that is relatively low HP but test certain mechanics and skills such as dodging on time, reflecting on time, etc.

And people who complain about a guardian/tanky character skipping because they can endure all the damage and get away so the mobs de-aggro but they can’t….that’s a L2P issue. My glass cannon mesmer (full zerkers) can skip just as well as any other character and most people, at least in my guild don’t seem to have a problem with it.

that is fine have low trash. but this game shouldn’t be called, GW2 leap frog edition. Either have boss enough after boss encounter. OR hey remember ORR lets add pull mechanics into the dungeons… BTW the skipping mentaltiy only devides the community. This game has done so many things right I don’t understand how they got dungeon mechanics so wrong.

So it’s better to just force everyone into the same decision and not give choice? You’ll make the community even more divided with no way to have the other “half” feel satisfied. At least in it’s current form, people can find groups that don’t want to skip. Sure it may not be as popular but I can guarantee you that forcing no skips via something like never de-aggro trash would make the game a lot less fun for many people. Hell, some dungeons would never ever be done (see Arah) due to the time it would take given the amount of trash.

At most, dungeons should take a maximum of 1 hr, at the minimum, 10 minutes for a skilled group for short dungeons, 30 for an average group.

Part of what makes GW2 so awesome is the amount of choice you have. Limiting the choice by forcing people into one way is NOT the way to go.

congalong.9620:

What I find hilarious about these posts is that it’s basically summed into this.

“I don’t like the way you do things and things should be done my way.”

You are free to make non-skip LFGs and find like minded people. People that want to skip can find groups that want to skip. That’s the beauty of it, choice. Forcing people into something they don’t want to do is basically asking for something to be not done.

Nobody is forced to play this game. You’re not forced to do dungeons. Skipping content, and therefore possible loot, is a decision you’ve already made on your own. You’re willing to forego that extra set of tokens because it’s not worth the time. If it was worth the time, you’d be doing it. Rewarding players who want to play more of the game is not a bad thing.

You just disagree with what changes may come because they could possibly make the game more difficult for you. It sounds like you fall into your category above.

congalong.9620:

Sure, fix exploits which trivialize an encounter but making mobs perma-aggro is NOT a solution.

Making dungeon mobs not fall-off is a solution to players skipping content, yes. As Robert Hrouda has already stated. Is it the right one? No, not for Guild Wars 2 and possibly not for Anet’s general outlook on gaming. But it would solve the issue.

congalong.9620:

Nor is “stacking-MF on kills” as that basically rewards players who put in a lot of time/have a lot of time.

Players who have more time will always achieve more in-game. That’s a simple fact of gaming. You can minimize it, but you can’t get rid of it. If everyone did speed runs and nobody stopped to do anything that wasn’t 100% necessary, the players who had more time available to play the game would still achieve more.

congalong.9620:

I would prefer dungeons have low amounts trash that is relatively low HP but test certain mechanics and skills such as dodging on time, reflecting on time, etc.

And people who complain about a guardian/tanky character skipping because they can endure all the damage and get away so the mobs de-aggro but they can’t….that’s a L2P issue. My glass cannon mesmer (full zerkers) can skip just as well as any other character and most people, at least in my guild don’t seem to have a problem with it.

After reading the above quote, see the top of this post for irony.

Redscope.6215:

After reading the above quote, see the top of this post for irony.

I guess it is a bit ironic no? :p

Then again, I said I would prefer but I’m not crying out to ANET to FORCE people to play that way unlike some posters here.

Sure, I can understand the desire to have, more monsters killed = better loot, but only if it could be averaged out in the long run vs a speed runner. aka, if I speed run and let’s say I do 3-4x more runs than you, my loot should be similar to yours if you did 1 non-skip clear. I think that would be fair and wouldn’t hurt many players except those that are basically just wanting things their way. Of course that would mean each dungeon would have to be tweaked on rates for the time invested in an “optimal” speed run vs a non-speed run. (See 6-8 min COF P1 runs). This kind of goes in line with D3’s Monster power level farming. Some choose to farm MP0 for faster runs and get the same amount of legendaries/rares in the long run vs those that do MP4+.

Just add the GW1 thingy, where you could kill all mobs in an area and gain some completion if you succeeded. This could be like the FotM daily chest, only giving extra dungeon tokens and maybe even a chance of dropping a precursor or something along those lines.

But then again prolly no one will read this cause they are to busy flaming eachother.

Aden Celeste.3650:

IAs a matter of fact, I would say to have the chest open at the end of the dungeon instead of multiple occasions, and the loot inside depends on the number of mobs killed!

Terrible idea.

So you’re in a PUG that kills all bosses and trash and then wipe on the last boss and for some reason the group dissolves: your scheme says they GET NOTHING.

Great incentivisation.

/scarcasm

Robert Hrouda.1327:

It’s one of those human things to do something with the path of least resistance and danger, especially when there is a reward at the end. I could make enemies never drop their aggro on players and force them to fight every single mob, but I don’t see that as a viable solution right now.
I think the better solution is to look at why people are skipping things, and approach from a different angle. Trash mobs have too much HP, and can’t be counted on for lucrative drops from a Risk/Time vs Reward, so people interested in making money (most groups) aren’t incentivized to do it, whereas the end chest/boss are more guaranteed and accountable returns on time and risk. I also think there is something to be said about interesting trash mob mechanics making them more enjoyable of a fight.
I can’t make the rewards from trash mobs so lucrative though that people just farm the first couple trash mobs/boss in a dungeon and then rinse/repeat. We encountered this when people just farmed the first boss in an instance and then restarted it (earlier around launch time), and we had to adjust the content as a result. It’s a fine line you have to walk to encourage players to get to the end, but make the process of getting there rewarding enough as well.

I don’t imagine this next update will resolve all the skipping behavior. The path of least resistance is engrained in people, and even if I do everything I could to incentivize people, there will still be those who skip stuff. I have been fixing exploits that will require players to complete more of the events in dungeons, but I am sure people will still skip what they can to get to their end goal.

For now I would encourage those not looking to skip to find some folks who don’t like skipping and make a guild with them… or maybe look for guilds that are dedicated to not skipping, and tag along with them. I’m in a couple of them (anonymously), and it really is an effective solution to playing the game the way you want to play it: Find other people with similar interests and band together with them.

If you’re afraid about people farming first mobs, why not make mobs drop better loot the further you are in a dungeon and the more you killed already?

Exterminans.9723:

To me, there appears to be a simple solution to that: Introduce a concept which measures how well / complete the dungeon was and make the reward based on that.

Reminds me of DDO where the dungeons gave you rewards at the end based on the completion of the dungeon.

I have to say, increasing Magic Find the more you clear a dungeon is pretty smart use of already existing systems. Though I am curious, in games that use a mechanic like that, how do they get across the fact that it’s happening to joe player?

I’d almost suggest removing the wiping component, adding more strength and increasing the cap for the Magic Find ‘on kill’ stacking Sigil, if only the weapon/armor applications of that stat weren’t so dang controversial.

/edit: la dee da. momentary brain fart. never you mind what I’d written before. >.>;

haviz.1340:

If you’re afraid about people farming first mobs, why not make mobs drop better loot the further you are in a dungeon and the more you killed already?

This is a good idea!

It’s not only loot.

I did arah p2 in a group full of first timers killing most things in the way: time spent ~=3h
After i did p3 with a pug (they explained me what to do since i was doing it for the 1st time): time spent 25min

Dungeons need trash mobs, something as to be in between some boss fights, but the time spent to clear a dungeon has to be reasonable enough for people to kill them.

Take fractals for example:
You don’t need to kill all the mobs at maw but some still do it because of loot and they’re not annoying to kill. (extra kill time 5-10min tops)
Dredge and grawl sometimes are a pain in the kitten but they go down easily enough and you get awesome loot from bags. (you got to kill them anyway but at least i don’t feel that it’s too boring).

With the “regular dungeons” you only get a bunch of silver mobs with too much hp and a lot of annoying skills that even with an upgraded loot aren’t worth the time to kill.

Again with arah: the deadeyes and asura techs on p2 are just there to avoid runners. There’s no other explanation to have 1hit kills at distance and permanent stun if they didn’t already know that people would try to skip content.

tl;dr
Just make dungeons not last 4x longer when killing mobs and most people will actually take and extra couple minutes killing groups that may cross their way.

I find the MF stacking ideas to be terrible. You are still pitting getting guaranteed rewards against an increased chance to possibly getting something decent. Additionally I am not a fan of giving people more reasons to be going into dungeons with full MF gear(if you are going to stack MF then you might as well stack it even higher).

Humposaurus.5764:

Just add the GW1 thingy, where you could kill all mobs in an area and gain some completion if you succeeded. This could be like the FotM daily chest, only giving extra dungeon tokens and maybe even a chance of dropping a precursor or something along those lines.

So 30 minutes to clear the dungeon. Then another 10 minutes searching for that last patrol?

All perma agro will do is force people to have at least 1 thief in the party for shadow refuge or make thief even worse in PvE

Rising Dusk.2408:

- To avoid the risk of people simply running to the end of the path for late-path mobs because they drop better, you could scale it instead to how many mobs have been killed. The more you kill, the better your loot.

This is the smartest comment in the whole of this thread, no offence folks

As for the OP, there is some sound advice here; join a specific guild, search for non-skip players to form a constant dungeon team, take charge of PUGs from the beginning of the run and do not be afraid to kick them for not listening.

My general rule of thumb is if a player has entered the dungeon before the rest of the team is even in the map it is safe to kick them as they will screw your run, the exception to this is a player who offers before hand to open the explorable mode if nobody has it or if it is a dungeon that is soon to be locked or is unlocked on their server but not yours.

Also those players that say “GO? Go… go!” are also that type of player that will run ahead and get you all killed. You can’t blame the rest of the team for following when someone runs ahead, some just want to watch peoples backs. If you see players that wait at the dungeon entrance, or just inside it, for all players to load before rushing off then these are the ones you want to play with. Chances are they either know the dungeon and/or smart enough to wait for everyone and follow orders if need be.

Humposaurus.5764:

Just add the GW1 thingy, where you could kill all mobs in an area and gain some completion if you succeeded. This could be like the FotM daily chest, only giving extra dungeon tokens and maybe even a chance of dropping a precursor or something along those lines.

Actually this could work

Take note Mr.Hrouda for I will reveal the future for GW2; a simple progress bar like we have with hearts and other events. Obviously scale it to the dungeon and do not make it have to be a 100% clear. Let’s say AC has 5 bosses and 100 trash in a path, the counter needs 3 bosses and 70 trash killed in order to reward with a chest containing extra silver/tokens and perhaps lodestones based on the dungeon. Just make sure the counter still runs after path completion just in case we don’t finish it before the final boss + tokens.

This rules out speed clears for the most part as they need to kill for that extra bit of loot, hopefully this loot is worthwhile doing all the extra work. It keeps players fighting that much longer in dungeons and skipping less.

Also you would want to make sure that each dungeons counter is tailored to it’s size, as I mentioned AC above, here is a quick idea of Arah; let’s say it has 15 bosses and 500 foes, for our chest it needs 8-10 bosses and 300 foes. Again for Arah and the length of time accounted for the loot should be worth it; hell, let’s say a random chance of a precursor (would still take up to 3-4 hours perhaps so no farming per se)

Well Robert, what do you think?

I like this tread.. quite good in constructive comments. I like +magic find things and the extra reward for kill mobs.

Flameseeker.1563:

It’s not only loot.

I did arah p2 in a group full of first timers killing most things in the way: time spent ~=3h
After i did p3 with a pug (they explained me what to do since i was doing it for the 1st time): time spent 25min

Dungeons need trash mobs, something as to be in between some boss fights, but the time spent to clear a dungeon has to be reasonable enough for people to kill them.

Take fractals for example:
You don’t need to kill all the mobs at maw but some still do it because of loot and they’re not annoying to kill. (extra kill time 5-10min tops)
Dredge and grawl sometimes are a pain in the kitten but they go down easily enough and you get awesome loot from bags. (you got to kill them anyway but at least i don’t feel that it’s too boring).

With the “regular dungeons” you only get a bunch of silver mobs with too much hp and a lot of annoying skills that even with an upgraded loot aren’t worth the time to kill.

Again with arah: the deadeyes and asura techs on p2 are just there to avoid runners. There’s no other explanation to have 1hit kills at distance and permanent stun if they didn’t already know that people would try to skip content.

tl;dr
Just make dungeons not last 4x longer when killing mobs and most people will actually take and extra couple minutes killing groups that may cross their way.

Path 2 isn’t that long, good team will clear it in 30-40 minutes max while path 3 is 15-20 minutes. Problem is, most pugs prefer path of the least resistance.

i haven’t read all of the posts but food for thought:

what if we get better rewards from trash mobs but from the chest after killing the final boss. this way skipping would be ok, but the reward would really be lower. also it would be impossible to just farm first mobs/boss since the reward would come from the end boss in dungeon.

in other words there would be no looting of mobs, but kind of accumulating the loot into the final boss chest. would also be cool to be able to “loot” the mob just to see what is waiting for you at the end of dungeon (something like the menu that opens when you try to loot the mob with full inventory). i think that would be a really strong incentive to finish the dungeon the right way:)

PetricaKerempuh.7958:

i haven’t read all of the posts but food for thought:

what if we get better rewards from trash mobs but from the chest after killing the final boss. this way skipping would be ok, but the reward would really be lower. also it would be impossible to just farm first mobs/boss since the reward would come from the end boss in dungeon.

Why? What’s so special about killing trash in a dungeon?

Trash mobs have too much HP, and can’t be counted on for lucrative drops from a Risk/Time vs Reward, so people interested in making money (most groups) aren’t incentivized to do it, whereas the end chest/boss are more guaranteed and accountable returns on time and risk. I also think there is something to be said about interesting trash mob mechanics making them more enjoyable of a fight.

So how about a HP nerf? Or a buff to make them drop more t6 or dosh?

I can’t make the rewards from trash mobs so lucrative though that people just farm the first couple trash mobs/boss in a dungeon and then rinse/repeat.

Then make the trash rewards better the deeper you are in the dungeon. More t6 and rares (considering the insane amounts of t6 and ectos you need for shiny backpack) would be nice. Also buff boss non-chest loot, seriously. Receiving a blue after killing a legendary mob is annoying as hell. A guaranteed rare would be nice.

I have been fixing exploits that will require players to complete more of the events in dungeons, but I am sure people will still skip what they can to get to their end goal.

A list would be nice. There’s nothing more annoying than doing a route you’ve been accustomed to for months only to see it’s been “fixed”.

Conner.4702:

Only those that cheat feel the need to rationalize their behaviour.

Not necessarily.

Iehova.9518:

I can’t make the rewards from trash mobs so lucrative though that people just farm the first couple trash mobs/boss in a dungeon and then rinse/repeat.

Then make the trash rewards better the deeper you are in the dungeon. More t6 and rares (considering the insane amounts of t6 and ectos you need for shiny backpack) would be nice. Also buff boss non-chest loot, seriously. Receiving a blue after killing a legendary mob is annoying as hell. A guaranteed rare would be nice.

Something similar to what you wanted happened early in the game’s history and had to be drastically changed. People will most certainly taken advantage the hell out of this again if given the chance.

DancingPenguins.9875:

Something similar to what you wanted happened early in the game’s history and had to be drastically changed.

You’re going to have to be more specific. Are you referring to the CoF farming (as if it’s a bad thing)?

People will most certainly taken advantage the hell out of this again if given the chance.

Note that I didn’t say “buff the first mobs”, rather than “have trash loot scale with dungeon depth”.

DancingPenguins.9875:

PetricaKerempuh.7958:

i haven’t read all of the posts but food for thought:

what if we get better rewards from trash mobs but from the chest after killing the final boss. this way skipping would be ok, but the reward would really be lower. also it would be impossible to just farm first mobs/boss since the reward would come from the end boss in dungeon.

Why? What’s so special about killing trash in a dungeon?

nothing an thats the point. what i understood from reading devs post is they want to make it more special (by increasing loot, and i agree), but they dnt want people to grind the same trash mobs and then reset the dungeon.

Trash is recycled world PvE trash with stacked HP and pathing that makes skipping possible.Even if the pathing was difference we have no trinity meaning that everyone has everything so everyone can run=skip.
It is not really about low rewards or anything atleast for me i just do dungeons for the fun and challange.I get neither from trash.
Doing mostly Arah runs which can take little more time than other dungeon i honestly have no idea why should i clear trash when i can just run past them most of the time.
Getting loot at the end of the dungeon? Ye sure go slaughter your way to some rares if you want, it is just not the fun way for some of us.Beating up mobs that just autoattack and use same stuff as in world PvE.
As for shorter dungeons like AC etc…yep you are right path of the least resistance.Not our fault that it is possible to run.
Solution: Give more puzzles to each dungeon-that way you have to clear to complete puzzle,not saying that you need to add more running puzzles tho.Give new trash-quality of stacks not quantity.

Iehova.9518:

DancingPenguins.9875:

Something similar to what you wanted happened early in the game’s history and had to be drastically changed.

You’re going to have to be more specific. Are you referring to the CoF farming (as if it’s a bad thing)?

People will most certainly taken advantage the hell out of this again if given the chance.

Note that I didn’t say “buff the first mobs”, rather than “have trash loot scale with dungeon depth”.

At the start you had CoF and CM SM. Then there was Arah.

Trash loot scale with dungeon depth is a nice idea in concept. The problem is two-fold. Technical issues aside, you can abuse that as easily. Take AC, for eample. Skip to the final packs of geckos and farm them and the boss. Nothing has changed.

Take AC, for eample. Skip to the final packs of geckos and farm them and the boss.

I assume you’re talking about AC1. That is easily solved by not having them spawn until Hodge gets his second useless stick.

Iehova.9518:

Take AC, for eample. Skip to the final packs of geckos and farm them and the boss.

I assume you’re talking about AC1. That is easily solved by not having them spawn until Hodge gets his second useless stick.

I don’t think we are talking about the same packs. However, the point is that speedgating content not designed certain way always leave room to be played differently.

Fractals are a step in the right direction in that there are maps that encourages killing and maps that encourages skipping where the paths of least resistance are anticipated and purposefully employed by the developers instead of the map > path > obstacle course design from older dungeons.

Crying.7930:

Getting loot at the end of the dungeon? Ye sure go slaughter your way to some rares if you want, it is just not the fun way for some of us.Beating up mobs that just autoattack and use same stuff as in world PvE.

u can still skip so what is the problem. i was addressing the problem of people possibly farming first mobs/boss in dungeon and the resetting if the loot got increased.

it was done with the tokens already for the same reason and works fine.

DancingPenguins.9875:

I don’t think we are talking about the same packs.

Which packs of geckos were you referring to then?

Iehova.9518:

DancingPenguins.9875:

I don’t think we are talking about the same packs.

Which packs of geckos were you referring to then?

I was talking about the final patrol packs right before the bosses.

DancingPenguins.9875:

I was talking about the final patrol packs right before the bosses.

Ah, the guys that drop dosh. That’s easily remedied as I said earlier.

PetricaKerempuh.7958:

Crying.7930:

Getting loot at the end of the dungeon? Ye sure go slaughter your way to some rares if you want, it is just not the fun way for some of us.Beating up mobs that just autoattack and use same stuff as in world PvE.

u can still skip so what is the problem. i was addressing the problem of people possibly farming first mobs/boss in dungeon and the resetting if the loot got increased.

it was done with the tokens already for the same reason and works fine.

I truly believe it sounds good in your head but have you ever considered possibility that some groups might not finish the run and get nothing?
Thanks for trying , here you got something from trash you killed atleast—-oh wait just kidding.
First problem here is that i can skip,second might be why i want to at all.

Crying.7930:

PetricaKerempuh.7958:

Crying.7930:

Getting loot at the end of the dungeon? Ye sure go slaughter your way to some rares if you want, it is just not the fun way for some of us.Beating up mobs that just autoattack and use same stuff as in world PvE.

u can still skip so what is the problem. i was addressing the problem of people possibly farming first mobs/boss in dungeon and the resetting if the loot got increased.

it was done with the tokens already for the same reason and works fine.

I truly believe it sounds good in your head but have you ever considered possibility that some groups might not finish the run and get nothing?
Thanks for trying , here you got something from trash you killed atleast—-oh wait just kidding.
First problem here is that i can skip,second might be why i want to at all.

in my head? no need for this kind of insults. what you get by not finishing the last boss in dungeons now?

you are trying not to understand. please read: in case they increase the loot on trash mobs.

to look at it positively it would be a motivation to actually go there to the end. make a tactic to kill final boss. and so on…

PetricaKerempuh.7958:

Crying.7930:

PetricaKerempuh.7958:

Crying.7930:

Getting loot at the end of the dungeon? Ye sure go slaughter your way to some rares if you want, it is just not the fun way for some of us.Beating up mobs that just autoattack and use same stuff as in world PvE.

u can still skip so what is the problem. i was addressing the problem of people possibly farming first mobs/boss in dungeon and the resetting if the loot got increased.

it was done with the tokens already for the same reason and works fine.

I truly believe it sounds good in your head but have you ever considered possibility that some groups might not finish the run and get nothing?
Thanks for trying , here you got something from trash you killed atleast—-oh wait just kidding.
First problem here is that i can skip,second might be why i want to at all.

in my head? no need for this kind of insults. what you get by not finishing the last boss in dungeons now?

you are trying not to understand. please read: in case they increase the loot on trash mobs.

to look at it positively it would be a motivation to actually go there to the end. make a tactic to kill final boss. and so on…

That wasnt meant as an insult,you simply make solution that sounds nice but has no background in actual game.You may get plenty if stuff ranging from greens to exotics and mats on top of that.It is something,giving someone nothing for trying is more like punishment saying “Get better or go home”.
I was pointing out your thing with chest full of trash drops you accumulated during the run.If such thing comes to exist-dungeons will be elitist place and the groups trying to learn who tend to fail from time to time will get nothing or really painfull experience of trying to get something which still might not be worth the effort they put in.
Yep i dont understand you at all it is not like im no trying.It is just a fact that badly designed trash and encounters with this trash cannot be replaced by stacking loot and making people grind this crap trash to get that buffed loot.

in my opinion increasing the drops from trash mobs will be more profitable in the long run for players. i assume people learn and get better. i have no problem finishing any dungeon i play (AC, CM, cof, coe, TA). arah i also finished 1st path but just dont have time because RL to have more than 2h ingame so im not even trying it.

the point is it would be better to get more loot for finishing dungeon with better loot from trash, then not getting loot at all from failing. and lets be honest. atm the loot you get from trash is just not good enough. the final loot for finishing the dungeon is much better. also we were talking about motivating the players not to skip content. so if we look at these players, they are just going to the end boss an killing it, with skipping as much as possible. so the problem we talk in this topic is not people that cant finish the dungeon at all (i believe there are those but dnt believe there are many, and they will learn), but people being unmotivated to actually play the dungeon as anet intended, because it is just not worth it lootwise.

All i get from your posts Petrica is wanting better loot from trash that dont deserve better loot.I might be the only one here thinking this but i think that trash is fine….it takes little to no time to clear non-champion packs so the drop is justified for the effort put in killing them=you have to bash them down as they dont do anything/you get reward according to difficulty.Its not worth it? Ye its not thats true but giving trash better loot just breaks the value of that given loot.
Skipping is done because it can be done thats the problem here which is adressed in the question.Giving better loot wont stop skipping thats the point you missed-it gives motivation yea but so does threat of banning,giving cookies etc,this is thread about fixing skipping….
This is just turning into another QQ better loot thread.

Hey Anet world bosses feel kind of empty these days…better loot maybe?
Hey Anet no one farms CoE/Arah because its harder…better loot maybe?
Hey Anet jumping puzzles are…uh oh….better loot please?

oh common man… give a solution instead of criticizing.

I did:Place more puzzles inside-5 mans not the running ones which can be soloed,change pathing and density in the places that actualy matter,change trash to more original types with less hp and more mechanics.
Skipping is mostly done by exploiting the fact of how unmobile trash is or how bad pathing and density is.Change that and no one will ever run again because it wont be possible.Also put CD on Ash Kits….

could be good to give bonus tokens as final reward based on number of mobs killed

people will run through anything that is not worth it. that is the fact. lets just have door after every room that doesn’t open until all mobs are killed.

interesting mechanics on trash mobs? i wouldn’t mind that, but lets be realistic… it wont happen.

puzzles? yes, but please not jumping puzzles or indiana jones type from cof. this is not fun at all.

density? please, there is enough useless trash mobs to skip as it is. if they force me to kill every pack just because there will be too many while i skip it will only be more tedious.

basically you have a list of wishes that takes too much work/creativity. one thing is to say i want interesting mechanic, other thing is to actually make it.

LordByron.8369:

could be good to give bonus tokens as final reward based on number of mobs killed

I believe Koptev said it best: NO NO NO.

No they wont run if you make it impossible to run that is the point and yes it takes work and creativity thats why it is called design and as a customer i expect them to put work into product that i bought if they dont do it than it was my mistake trusting in this game and i wont bother with the company anymore….
There needs to be work done,dungeons simply need rework because they are failing in more ways than just skipping thats the fact.
By the way i have to agree with no more CoF like puzzles…easiest thing ever just shallow filler of shallow dungeon.

This might sound harsh and it truly is but so is the state of the game so….

How about add Cold down timer in every dungeons.; 18, 22 or24 hours for each round.
Than increase the drop rate.
I believe if there is a cold down timer players will unlikely to skip any mobs they can find.
People never treasure anything which they can see it all the time, only regret when they cannot see it any more.