Guild Wars 2

It’s a bit ironic that how he kept on bashing the boring Berserker Meta while if you watched the videos we can see how boring the “tank meta” would be, there would be no need of reflects, no need of dodges, no need of stealth, half the GW2 mechanics would be dumped down the trash, everyone just run full Nomads gear and facetank and outsustain it, absolutely no risk.

Or he would rather do the Holy Trinity where the tank do all the work and 3 DPS just spam 1? Because that would make PvE a lot more fun right

I get full set of ventari’s gear and cleric trinket on my guardian and think it’ll make a difference in fotm50.

I rolled swamp and there are 2 spiders and thinking I’ll try to see how well I survive with my ultra healing/tanking/vitality build with mace and shield.

4 second later, I’m dead, so I store my ventari’s gear and never use it again.

That being said, It’s quite fun to wear cleric gear on my warrior on grenth shooting with a rifle afking while watching the pile of corpse on the ground.

Whenever people make suggestions for the sake of stat diversity it always shows how little they understand how those suggestions will impact the game. They never realise it will often have the opposite effect of what they want.

Either you obsolete zerker simply creating a new meta at whatever the new max viable dps setup is, or you create a system where people can support eachother to allow some to be “DPS” while others “heal” and others “tank”…

When they stated the goal to allow all sets to work, and a system without a trinity they basically said “everyone will run max DPS gear once they perfect strategies”.

Why am I supposed to care about what that kid says?

deSade.9437:

Why am I supposed to care about what that kid says?

Tom Yzf.5872:

deSade.9437:

Why am I supposed to care about what that kid says?

The more I see of the tank/heal gear complaints, the more I think that the complaints are the inevitable result of the melding old time MMO stat mechanics with a quasi- action combat system. When it comes to PvE, there are too many player expectations grounded in the way stats mesh with roles in older games.

There never should of been gear stats to begin with. Its too late to solve that now though.

spoj.9672:

There never should of been gear stats to begin with. Its too late to solve that now though.

They were pioneristic in gw1…
… and they take 200 steps back in gw2. Ironic.
Did you get my mail?

A step a year is pretty slow…

deSade.9437:

spoj.9672:

There never should of been gear stats to begin with. Its too late to solve that now though.

They were pioneristic in gw1…
… and they take 200 steps back in gw2. Ironic.
Did you get my mail?

uwotm8

spoj.9672:

deSade.9437:

spoj.9672:

There never should of been gear stats to begin with. Its too late to solve that now though.

They were pioneristic in gw1…
… and they take 200 steps back in gw2. Ironic.
Did you get my mail?

uwotm8

i swear on me mum i hit u in the gabber

A year and a halfish ago i was pugging arah on my ele, at lupicus the group wiped, so ofc i proceed to solo lupicus, these kids in the chat start arguing about how good i was and comparing me to wooden potatoes, nah said the other, woodenpotatoes is only good in lore he said, so after i killed lupicus i read the chat and asked who the fuq is wooden potatoes? I think i still got the screenshot somewhere it was pretty pathetic.

Dontain was a pretty special kind of guy aswell.
Pls don’t ban me for having an opion.

Kinda offtopic, but sorta related: has anyone tried playing DA:I? I feel that if GW2 took some combat mechanics off it it would be a nice change of pace, and probably shut up some of the harping about the DPS meta.

Its like this: Why ride a bicycle with training wheels when you finally mastered how to ride it without training wheels to go faster. But WP is actually arguing it is unfair to those that are still in training (lazyness, stubbornness, etc) so we should all get training wheels to make the game “fair”.

P.S. Also according to majority of “veterans” on the comment, apparently my zerker ele/thief/guardian/warrior/mesmer aren’t supporting the group because they are wearing zerker armor. Logic…?

The funny (or sad?) thing is when ANet starts to really catter to these complaints they would only lose the small percentage of playerbase called veterans. Please the masses!

edit: the reddit topic about the vid is cringe worthy as well

Advent Leader.1083:

Kinda offtopic, but sorta related: has anyone tried playing DA:I? I feel that if GW2 took some combat mechanics off it it would be a nice change of pace, and probably shut up some of the harping about the DPS meta.

unless youre a time traveller its not out yet.

screenshot is actually cringeworthier than i remember, here it is. i still don’t know what a mattvisual is.

and a little bonus pic of the old lion’s arch during wintersday.

MattVisual is a youtube GW guy, used to be like WP, but doesn’t do it as often now. He’s pretty funny.

I’m actually a big fan of at least one of his videos

“They have a built in, in game, chat for you to use… I know!… Who put that there?!”

aaah, i think i have seen that video pop up in the dungeon forum once earlier – didn’t know that was matt visual.

oxtred.7658:

Tom Yzf.5872:

deSade.9437:

Why am I supposed to care about what that kid says?

Exactly this.

deSade.9437:

Why am I supposed to care about what that kid says?

you need to be over 15 to call other ppl kids, top kek

This has to change. I want to be a knight.

Ironically i am now tempted to create a huge norn and get full nomads for it.

Topics like this always make me think about making huge topics how to fix lots of stuff and make PvE more interesting and require more coordination for efficient clears. But then I ask myself, why bother?

Imagine if you had to:

- Balance between direct and condition damage
- Stack more than one boon and condition
- Use active stuff to get highest damage instead of passive/half-passive

Anyways in my opinion a glass cannon party shouldn’t be able to mostly take DPS traits and utilities while going on full frontal assault against the boss. Instead, bosses should last long enough and deal reasonable pressure so unless players are extremely skilled they would have to back down to regenerate during the fight or equip enough defensive traits, utilities or gear.

For example:

- Skilled glass group: Uses smart movement, position and active defense to avoid most of the damage. Can equip mostly damage stuff and kill boss fast (at least 2 minutes).

- Average “stack” glass group: Pressure too high, wipes at boss. Needs more defense to sustain.

- Average tank group: Can equip damage stuff and clear boss as fast as average glass group. Can also equip defense stuff to make it even more easier but take longer.

- Bad glass group: Wipes all the time.

- Bad tank group: Needs defense stuff to survive.

But then game would be too hard and most players would cry oceans.

sorta sounds like average mmo

Butter.3024:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oBOlaYlBBZA

It’s a bit ironic that how he kept on bashing the boring Berserker Meta while if you watched the videos we can see how boring the “tank meta” would be, there would be no need of reflects, no need of dodges, no need of stealth, half the GW2 mechanics would be dumped down the trash, everyone just run full Nomads gear and facetank and outsustain it, absolutely no risk.

Or he would rather do the Holy Trinity where the tank do all the work and 3 DPS just spam 1? Because that would make PvE a lot more fun right

WTH!? Did you even watch the video? Your criticism makes absolutely no sense in context of what WoodenPotatoes ACTUALLY says in the video. He does not “[keep] bashing the boring berserker meta” as you put it; he is not advocating for a “tank” meta; nor is he suggesting Anet adopt the Holy Trinity. He is simply messing around with builds to demonstrate that there is a “foundation” in place for Anet to make changes to the game that would help make the gameplay more dynamic. He even states OUTRIGHT that the build he is using is not “viable”. This is just a editorial about his perception that Anet should make the gameplay more dynamic so that alternative builds to the berserker meta become more viable.

I can only assume one of the following:
1. You did not watch the video (or if you did watch the video, you did not bother to LISTEN to what he is saying)
2. You linked the wrong video for us to watch
3. You are referring to additional videos that are not linked
4. This is some personal vendetta to troll WoodenPotatoes

I dont like wooden Potatoes. I like my potatoes in liquid form. Preferably Vodka

I like mine roasted and covered in gravy.

Silvatar.5379:

I can only assume one of the following:
1. You did not watch the video (or if you did watch the video, you did not bother to LISTEN to what he is saying)
2. You linked the wrong video for us to watch
3. You are referring to additional videos that are not linked
4. This is some personal vendetta to troll WoodenPotatoes

Well this happens everywhere on the internet, when someone creates a topic about a hot potatoe, ppl usually with a strong (easily confused with biased) opinion of said subject storm into the thread without further reading what is going on and post something without further thinking lol

Another video by same person, or “kid”

thing is wooden potatoes keeps his stuff objective, while the “adults” here… well

oxtred.7658:

Tom Yzf.5872:

deSade.9437:

Why am I supposed to care about what that kid says?

spoj.9672:

I like mine roasted and covered in gravy.

I don’t like wooden potatoes at all. I can’t imagine them to taste very well.

Flat one dub! Oo

Pretty sure the video is agreeing with what most of us are saying in this thread… o.O

Alilinke.7690:

Pretty sure the video is agreeing with what most of us are saying in this thread… o.O

Yes and no. His desire to want a tank role to be viable, support to be improved via stats and his suggestions to achieve that are something we dont agree with. He is right about tanks being currently useless though.

I mean the suggestion to give tanky players more endurance regen and make the default really low really annoys me. I thought he had more intelligence when it came to suggestions like that.

I for one think that WP has a point:
Berzerker’s gear was meant to be for the best of the best but almost anyone can use berzerker’s gear now because the content holds not enough threat.
A traited Wall of Reflection alone offers 12 secs of protection against projectiles, if they don’t got stealth buffed like the ones of Malrona in TA. That means you have 12 seconds where you don’t have to care about certain bosses at all. Given the usual length of a fight, this skill alone will protect you for almost the entire fight.
Some encounters can be massively trivialized by such skills.

This doesn’t mean that all encounters should be made that difficult to be unbeatable as zerker, but at least the fight should be based more around the skill of the players than around the skills your class offers. And I think it’s also a pretty good idea to design special parts of encounters, which require special builds, like the husks at the tripple wurm, who can be killed easily by condition builds.

Thats a problem caused by the content. It has little to do with the build/gear system.

HHR LostProphet.4801:

I for one think that WP has a point:
Berzerker’s gear was meant to be for the best of the best but almost anyone can use berzerker’s gear now because the content holds not enough threat.

lol love the almost “anyone.” pls do increase the threat of dungeon content. Im sure the majority of the playerbase that loves dungeons will cream their pantaloons.

I always chuckle at the people who want it harder just to make it harder on berserker.

I want to scream " You do realise it will be harder for the less skilled AND the non berserker’s also?"

DonQuack.9025:

I want to scream " You do realise it will be harder for the less skilled AND the non berserker’s also?"

I tried to dig up the quote from our holy prophet but I was too slow and relevant post got buried

DonQuack.9025:

HHR LostProphet.4801:

I for one think that WP has a point:
Berzerker’s gear was meant to be for the best of the best but almost anyone can use berzerker’s gear now because the content holds not enough threat.

lol love the almost “anyone.” pls do increase the threat of dungeon content. Im sure the majority of the playerbase that loves dungeons will cream their pantaloons.

I always chuckle at the people who want it harder just to make it harder on berserker.

I want to scream " You do realise it will be harder for the less skilled AND the non berserker’s also?"

The same stupid argument over and over again, as soon as someone dares to question the lack of challenge in dungeons. Do you really think I wouldn’t know that it would increase the difficulty for all players? I for one see enough players who use berzerker’s gear and still don’t know when to dodge, simply because they’re not forced to learn it.
Bad players get carried by cheesy mechanics and that’s the main reason why this game feels so unrewarding challenge-wise.

spoj.9672:

Thats a problem caused by the content. It has little to do with the build/gear system.

Exactly, the encounters are out of touch with the actual gear system, that’s what WP was questioning, even though he want’s to adjust the gear system, rather than the encounters in this game.

Thats exactly the point. He wants to change the combat system. His suggestions are seriously flawed. And anyone should be able to see they would cause more exclusion, elitism and problems than they would solve.

Improving the content is the only solution at this stage. Otherwise you have to redo the entire combat system from scratch. And if you do that its likely to turn into another boring trinity game.

spoj.9672:

Thats exactly the point. He wants to change the combat system. His suggestions are seriously flawed. And anyone should be able to see they would cause more exclusion, elitism and problems than they would solve.

I don’t know where this elitism comes from. Some of the “elites” are kittens on a personal level, DonQuack is definitely off to a good start to confirm my bias, but in general I think there is no such thing as elitism in this game. I’m pugging dungeons daily and if I manage to get a good group, the time we need to complete the common paths are not far longer than the speedrun records.

And I don’t think that WP is completely right, his elan suggestion is pretty crappy tbh.
But he has a point that the current meta is pretty one-sided and one could easily see, elitism aside, that if more gearstats would be viable, the meta would be more diverse.
And it’s not the goal to kill of berzerker’s gear, it will still be the best DPS and there will be always people who’re able to survive with it. As I’ve said in another thread already, where I was also accused of just wanting the berzerker’s gear to be killed, I want the encounters lupicus-style harder, not more. And lupicus can be easily soloed if you count yourself as “elitist”.

I said quite a bit in the reddit thread so I won’t rehash it all here.

The WP arguments boils down to, “there isn’t enough risk in using berserker because you have dodges and evades and blinds and blocks, so we would scale those things with defensive stats so more marginal players would be encouraged to use tankier gear.”

So let’s boil this down to “there isn’t enough risk in using berserker gear and not enough reward in using tanky gear.” Let’s pretend we all agree that this is true and a real problem.

Solution 1 (offered by WP): redesign the entire gear system to amount to a nerf of active combat ability of berserker gear and a buff to the active combat ability of tankier gear.

Solution 2 (offered by me): Introduce new content with complicated and challenging mechanics. Once the bad players who don’t deserve to wear berserkers die enough times they will figure it out and wear tankier gear on their own.

Since that isn’t too likely to happen soon I have a third solution…

Solution 3: Put on your full dps gear. Pretend the prefix is Clerics in your mind. Set your traits up to benefit healing or “support” or whatever. Play as a support healer who also contributes some dps. There, you can roleplay as a healer and also be a good party member.

No one in the dungeon subforum minds difficult content. However, most pugs can’t even melee spider queen. What will they do?

oxtred.7658:

No one in the dungeon subforum minds difficult content. However, most pugs can’t even melee spider queen. What will they do?

Die, get kittened, put on tankier gear, get slower, get more kittened, either leave or improve.
That’s the order I would foresee.

Anet don’t want people to leave, and they don’t want to improve. That’s why difficult content won’t come. Most, if not all special snowflakes with their bad builds are also bad players and don’t understand how pve works. No matter how tanky they are they will still die in arah or fractals. And since anet main revenue is gem store, they don’t want the casuals ( who need gold via gems/ like buying small bonuses) to leave.

You’re probably right, but since ANet desperately tries to attract all kinds of players, I still hope we’ll get some hard content.