Guild Wars 2

^ Warmaster Grast. But AC leaves much to be desired….

please no more NPC-based mechanics. the AI in this game is trash.

This is some bs, it doesnt make anysense and i dont even wanna think about how muhc regearing would cost. I Nerfing Zerkers does nothing to make all the other stat sets better.

There is already no reason to go into pve besides dungeons, this would remove that.

Spore had better AI

Anet tried to change it up with TA Aetherpath, they’re even kind enough to hand out, RNG but still, unique weapons that currently go for ~150G on TP. Go ahead, start a group for it, see how long it takes and if you get to finish it in reasonable time.

The stuff you want might be fun the first times, but what about the tenth? On the other hand there’s a lot of players that have ran CoF p1 hundreds of times. Strange huh?

I guess 2014 the year of dunfire necros and bearbow rangers?

Is it time to bow to our new overlords or leave the game?

Such QQ.

Much whining.

Wow.

Seriously, nobody does CoF P1 because it’s that fun (it is fun, but still): They do it because it gives high rewards for the time invested. I’m not talking about making farming paths for people to compete with CoF; I’m talking about making dungeons with really specific, interesting mechanics that encourage group variety and build diversity without needing to nerf existing builds into the ground.

I’d also like these dungeons to be really tough. As it stands, you can do MOST of the dungeons in the game, with a few minor exceptions, with a PuG and finish it. It may not be a decent amount of time, but you can. I’d like to see new mechanics incorporated into more difficult content that actually REQUIRES heavy amounts of teamwork and coordination. Fractals does that, to an extent, but you’ve gotta go through it SO many times before you need that that I’m not sure if it counts. >_>

“The Great MMO Exodus”

I can hear it now.

TheMaskedParadigm.3629:

“The Great MMO Exodus”

I can hear it now.

Civil War Simulator, the inception of selling turning point “Living World”

The stuff you want might be fun the first times, but what about the tenth? On the other hand there’s a lot of players that have ran CoF p1 hundreds of times. Strange huh?

On the flipside, if someone is grinding the company’s already got them hook line and sinker, so why should it worry about their retention? A grinder’s already proven they’ll submit to doing any stupid thing so long as the carrot’s big enough. They could grab people like that by the hook and lead them anywhere.

If the zerker meta went away, something would take its place and we’d be back here all over again.

^ Unfortunately that is true. Players always gravitate to whatever is the easiest method that gives the greatest rewards. If the Zerker meta is destroyed, I give it a month, maybe less, before a new meta is found.

Ideally the game would be such that all builds are equally viable, or the differences are small enough that it does not matter. This requires constant balancing and adjustment as new content is released, however. It’s a TON of work, so for most games, it never becomes more than a pipe dream.

There will always be a most optimized build(in terms of clearing the requirements for the dungeon). The problem isn’t berserkers but the actual content and the notion of no trinity.

Guess what? If a path will require someone to have 20k hp guardian spamming heals etc. you will see posts LFG 20k hp heal bot guard and else they can’t clear the content.

Add a condition damage requirement in the mix and you see LFG 1/2 hybrid necros.

You end up with the same crap as 1000’s of other mmo’s have, waiting for specific guy before you can clear content.

With the current meta you have two choices: create your own party of players who play w/e they want and spend more time to clear content or create a dps meta party and clear content faster.

Adding hard/build checks(non zerkers or zerker) just to satisfy the requirement of completion is just that, more waiting for someone with a tank/healbot/condi build. The good players will still want to play with good players, and the rest will group up in “anyone welcome” parties, which is exactly what we have now.

Nothing will ever change unless they do a complete rehaul of ALL PvE AI and mechanics which will never happen.

@Zax: That’s true, but only to a certain extent. For example, I, and my friends, do not gravitate to the fastest content that gives the best rewards. We gravitate towards content that’s fun. Right now, that’s Fractals and sPvP. Tomorrow it might be getting the Dungeon Master title. Next week, it’ll DEFINITELY be the Living Story. There’s nothing wrong with redesigning SOME content to cater to different parts of the player base.

@Izaya: Hence the importance of having multiple viable builds for every character, and being willing to change your build depending on the needs of the party. What if a support thief could provide the same level of support in a dungeon as a dedicated support guardian? It might even be more optimal in some dungeons than in others! Why not keep some dungeons set up the way they are for speed clears and easy runs, and retune some of the others for greater time investment and rewards? They don’t even have to be THAT much better; just enough to compensate for a bit of the time and repairs during the run. I actually don’t mind waiting for condi characters or support or w/e. Dungeons were originally supposed to be hardcore content that might require specific builds between different classes anyways. I’d like to see changes that harken back to that, rather than give up entirely on the notion.

Manijin.3428:

@Zax: That’s true, but only to a certain extent. For example, I, and my friends, do not gravitate to the fastest content that gives the best rewards. We gravitate towards content that’s fun. Right now, that’s Fractals and sPvP. Tomorrow it might be getting the Dungeon Master title. Next week, it’ll DEFINITELY be the Living Story. There’s nothing wrong with redesigning SOME content to cater to different parts of the player base.

@Izaya: Hence the importance of having multiple viable builds for every character, and being willing to change your build depending on the needs of the party. What if a support thief could provide the same level of support in a dungeon as a dedicated support guardian? It might even be more optimal in some dungeons than in others! Why not keep some dungeons set up the way they are for speed clears and easy runs, and retune some of the others for greater time investment and rewards? They don’t even have to be THAT much better; just enough to compensate for a bit of the time and repairs during the run. I actually don’t mind waiting for condi characters or support or w/e. Dungeons were originally supposed to be hardcore content that might require specific builds between different classes anyways. I’d like to see changes that harken back to that, rather than give up entirely on the notion.

That’s the problem, a support thief will in no way be at the same level as a support guardian.

And what was sold to me when I bought the game is that I will never have to wait on the tank or healer for 2 hours to come online or their bio break w/e because we cannot progress without them. This game has no trinity, you’re not supposed to be REQUIRED to bring a tank or a healer.

the best thing I think I could see them doing is maybe making it so a boss has to be killed by conditions for a certain % of his hp or maybe it puts up a reflective shield until it has 10 stacks of bleeds, or maybe a boss does a slam attack that if it doesn’t hit anyone gives it a stack of fury ad causes it to do a huge aoe or something.

however I don’t think that support builds are ever going to be necessary for content, It’d just be yet another thing they do against their original manifesto.

I think they will apply some mechanics from those guild bounty npcs on the dungeon bosses. There is one bounty npc that keeps spamming aoe freezing, and if you have freezing you cant do direct damage to him, only conditions. So you need to be able to cleanse conditions frequently or you can spec to cond damage to be able to keep your dps up.

There are lots more puzzle-like fights that they can add to make other specs viable without nerfing the direct damage builds.

@Izaya
I know the role structure in group content for RPGs usually tends to either go ‘Everybody is DPS’ or ‘Waiting for the Priest’. So it kind of gives the impression roles have to be required in order to be functional.

But, honestly, I can’t tell you how many games I’ve played where roles were both non-essential and perfectly relevant, while being considered more or less mix and matchable to all but the top 5% of players. MOBAs and TBSs in particular seem to do a pretty good job of that.

deSade.9437:

Miku Lawrence.6329:

deSade.9437:

I want some forum regulars to join me in GW1 :/ sooo…

Interested.

:O Good stuff, I really want to replay the whole thingy. You know, a game that has the shadow of a decent story and missions.
Swifty?

I honestly think that it’s been so long that I would just be an awful awful player T_T

Can’t remember kitten on how to play.

“:D”
(this is for the people i recently spoke with on this subforum…)

J Eberle.9312:

deSade.9437:

Miku Lawrence.6329:

deSade.9437:

I want some forum regulars to join me in GW1 :/ sooo…

Interested.

:O Good stuff, I really want to replay the whole thingy. You know, a game that has the shadow of a decent story and missions.
Swifty?

I honestly think that it’s been so long that I would just be an awful awful player T_T

Can’t remember kitten on how to play.

I don’t know how well-established your skills were in GW1, but I found out that I was still able to pull everything off just from muscle memory. Okay, admittedly, I forgot to cast Shadow Form the first time I went to do a pull, but other than that, I was golden. It was a 35min run, which, seeing how necrotic got nerfed, isn’t that bad all things considered.

Most fun part was blowing my Emo’s mind with my oldschool left-side city pull they had never seen before. That and showing them the house in City where you can go inside.

I dunno, if it took me a single evening to get back into tanking DoA, I’m fairly certain I’ll get back into the game relatively easily.

Also, I’m in what is currently the best DoA guild in the game, some of the officers are old buddies of mine, so I’m sure I can pull some strings here and there and vouch for a couple of you guys if you decide to follow me next month or in a couple of weeks.

I also have plenty of assets left to put some of you guys on your feet and get started in the game.

Bosses have interesting mechanics? Where? Are we playing the same game?

The big problem with having boss’es with complex mechanic and better AI is that this is a MMO not a PS4 game that you finish once and never play again. You are going to redo everything hundreds of time in Guild Wars 2, kill the same boss hundred of times, that’s why people come up with tactic that work 99% of the time. This way we regularize the runs, it’s the only way people are going to repeat the content over and over. What happen when boss mechanic get complicated, people just won’t repeat them, look at TA aether path, it’s probably one of the most profitable path, and takes 25 mins with my group, but people don’t bother because the ooze part is random (tactic involve but things can go wrong at any time) and the last boss is a mess for most PuGs.

People don’t bother with it because of too many puzzles and unskippable cutscenes. How many times do I have to watch it before anet decides it’s enough?

Its still pretty sad that we seem to be conceived as the ‘experienced players only’ groups you see on lfg…

I’ll be equally happy if they make changes that hurt pvt elitists more than us, poor casual players that play how we want.

Yeah ive helped countless people in pugs and never once kicked for build or inexperience unless i specified in the lfg that i wanted certain requirements.

And no nemesis we arent against build diversity. We are against the removal of active defence because thats the only real measure of skill we have.

On another note… there are friendly people here that have an honest opinion and want to contribute… so to them i say…
I hope the zerker meta doesn’t get nerfed into, i’ve spoken to people… i got some ideas… will post them soon. If the zerker meta gets crushed… there will be the condition meta, or the healing meta or the tank meta or what ever, and we would have the same problem.

The solution has to bring stability and equilibrium to the PvE, like… zerker only vs 2 zerkers 1 condi 1 healer should finish a certain dungeon relatively at the same speed (relative to skill and other factors of course).
Each one of these playstyles should face hardship but from different aspects… so it’s not “one meta > all others” but more of a “i am more comfortable playing as X… and having to deal with Y instead of something else”. “We enjoy playing as… and having to defend vs…”.

I think the solution may rely with the implementation of a few other mobs in each dungeons with counter-meta AI… kind of like dinamic events with mobs that are meant to counter a certain group composition… and i think i may have come up with some categories…

You will never be able to balance pve like that. The best we will get is a mix of zerkers and condi builds for organized groups.

The WHOLE idea behind Action MMO is that you don’t HAVE to tank the damage as you can mitigate them, which mean once you have learned the boss mechanic, you team Skill composition, you DON’T HAVE to take the hit, which mean you can sacrifice your defense gear for more DPS gear, changing this in any way is wrong.

mahariel.4981:

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/balance/PvE-Revising-the-DPS-Meta/first#post3480529

Brace yourselves.

Oh for the love of, “RIP zerker” after I’ve zerked/scholared up my 3rd character? -_-’ Well, at least I’ve got the pvt/melandru armor for WvW…

Coming up next: dungeons are being removed from the game.

Or they’ll just fill it with unskippable dialogue sequences, make the mobs spam their anti-meta skills (imagine – entire dungeon of elite gorillas) and make the reward bad so nobody will do it anyway.

This thread is so depressing.

What should be talked about is how anet might be screwing us over. Those folks who spent hundreds or thousands of gold gearing their characters for the meta that could be utterly destroyed is nauseating.

I’m glad I don’t give enough f’s to ever waste my time on ascended armor. All this game is, is a beauty contest that I’m totally winning.

RIP in peace berserkers <3

They need to add a function for switching cut scenes off. Why has this not been done T_T

J Eberle.9312:

They need to add a function for switching cut scenes off. Why has this not been done T_T

We are investigating it.

Quickfoot Katana.8642:

J Eberle.9312:

They need to add a function for switching cut scenes off. Why has this not been done T_T

We are investigating it.

This… This means never. >_<

J Eberle.9312:

Quickfoot Katana.8642:

J Eberle.9312:

They need to add a function for switching cut scenes off. Why has this not been done T_T

We are investigating it.

This… This means never. >_<

You’re swift in your thinking aswell then.

Can’t wait!

Excellent work guys.

hedix.1986:

Oh for the love of, “RIP zerker” after I’ve zerked/scholared up my 3rd character? -_-’ Well, at least I’ve got the pvt/melandru armor for WvW…

I have 10 chars and all have full zerk sets with 6 equipped with scholars. My main mesmer has 4 zerk sets. I think I’m in too deep…

Trice.4598:

The big problem with having boss’es with complex mechanic and better AI is that this is a MMO not a PS4 game that you finish once and never play again. You are going to redo everything hundreds of time in Guild Wars 2, kill the same boss hundred of times, that’s why people come up with tactic that work 99% of the time. This way we regularize the runs, it’s the only way people are going to repeat the content over and over. What happen when boss mechanic get complicated, people just won’t repeat them, look at TA aether path, it’s probably one of the most profitable path, and takes 25 mins with my group, but people don’t bother because the ooze part is random (tactic involve but things can go wrong at any time) and the last boss is a mess for most PuGs.

1) I’m not advocating replacing EVERY dungeon in the game with something new, different, and more challenging. I’m advocating adding in some content that IS extremely challenging, and might even require specific builds from every profession. We should actually KEEP paths like COF 1 for people that want that fun, speed-clear reward. Those are great things to have. But we need something that says “full zerkers is not the easiest solution to this problem”, and we need a way of doing it that doesn’t involve directly nerfing those stats.

2) I don’t particularly care if this content is only played once by some people. This content should be fun and rewarding for the players that take the time and effort to do it, and IF they do it multiple times, then they’ll be summarily rewarded for their work (via cool gear, maybe even dungeon specific, and lootz). You forget: ArenaNet originally intended for Explorable Mode dungeons to be so difficult that you needed something like TeamSpeak and a specific party build to coordinate inside with bosses, etc. When that changed, got nerfed, w/e, I don’t know, but I think that idea needs to make a comeback.

@Izaya: I never said anything like support thieves applying equal healing or buffs to a guardian. They can provide interesting types of support, from long group stealth uptime to 10 second boss perma-lockdown. My point is not that they should be identical, but that the TYPES of support they can provide be equal.

I’m also not advocating that we bring back tank and healer archetypes. ANet originally stated that they wanted a new trinity of damage, support, and control, roles which could be filled by any class in its own unique style (terrormancer Control, thief stealth/venoms, DPS guardian, etc.). The idea would be that you COULD find a group of players of any class, and they would be able to easily switch into the needed role for different dungeon paths, depending on the path. I’m also, again, not advocating changing most current dungeon paths. We need to have something for those that enjoy speed-clear zerker runs. But we need something that also requires a bit more planning and foresight. The changes I’m proposing aren’t geared at making you wait for hours for a PUG; they’re geared towards making you come in with a coordinated team that’s ready to take care of some hardcore content. That may not be for everybody, but why should it?

Youtube failed converting, 1080p as avi, 360p on youube.

Edit: I would make one, but I can’t.

could someone please point me to where anet said these recent statements about the pve meta?

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/balance/PvE-Revising-the-DPS-Meta/

This monster post, Infamous

thank you
15chars

People complaining about “we don’t want the holy trinity” but they got the same failure system, just with another name. Right now zerkers don’t want Rangers or Necros or even Engineers in their zerker groups. That’s the same problem as we had with the trinity, where you needed an specific proffesion. Now the people needs warriors, guardians or mesmers, and will kick out other proffesions.

Isn’t that the same problem?

Guild Wars 2 needs some serious competition so that they will straiten up and fly the kitten right. Can’t wait for ESO and EQN to come out.

Elrey.5472:

People complaining about “we don’t want the holy trinity” but they got the same failure system, just with another name. Right now zerkers don’t want Rangers or Necros or even Engineers in their zerker groups. That’s the same problem as we had with the trinity, where you needed an specific proffesion. Now the people needs warriors, guardians or mesmers, and will kick out other proffesions.

Isn’t that the same problem?

I agree but the problem with class like ranger/necro/engie is not the classs itself, it’s that most PuGs will gear/trait for in a way they don’t contribute to the party. I.E. Ranger not using Spotter/Frost Spirit (or using it but at 1500 range with a bow) Engie not stacking vulnerability, Tank necro that doesn’t help the party. These 3 classes can be useful if they use the right build, heck, my daily tour group often have a Necro (using Spoj build) and a Ranger (using brazil’s) and we manage to get insanely good time. (5-6 mins SE p1/3, 10-12 mins AC 1/3 and 8-10 mins AC2, Etc.) we only have 1 warrior 1 guardian, no mesmer :P.

Who are ‘people’ here? I’ve been to every group compositions possible, and as long as we have a good attitude, there haven’t been any kicks based on the professions.

The zerker meta is strongly recommended because it works the best and it requires players to become better at what they are playing. Every classes can be a zerker. If peopleplayhowtheywant, then don’t jump into an advertised ‘zerker-only’ group without expecting to get kicked. The only problem here is to apply your thinking to others and force everyone to playhowyouwant.

Oh please, stop complaning on something you can actively avoid. Why bother? Seriously!

The way I see it, one of the problems is that you can spec for both support and dps at the same time. Any build can provide might to a party just by blasting fire fields and that might gained provides the exact same bonus regardless of build (some variation in duration, and regeneration scales with healing power but that is it). A way to help with this might be combining healing power (which already scales extremely poorly) with boon effectiveness. This way if someone with no boon effectiveness gives might, it will only add +20 power to the party, while someone heavily specced in boon effectiveness will give +40 power for each stack of might. That way. A lower personal dps oriented build could actually increase party dps more than a pure personal dps build.