dishonour system when you kick someone

dishonour system when you kick someone

in Fractals, Dungeons & Raids

Posted by: mercury ranique.2170

mercury ranique.2170

Hi,

After talkin bout this subject briefly in a different part of the forum I was asked to make a suggestion here and throw it into the open for comment.

The issue is griefing through kicking someone out of a party.

First off I want to explain that kicking someone out of a party is almost always going to cause griefing. Cause it is not nice for the person thats being kicked out. TThere is however a reasonable small group of people who misuse the LFG system to find some random players to do a dungeon or some fractals with and think it is perfectly ok to kick those random players at the final stage in order to invite guildmembers/friends in to ‘steal’ the award.

I have heard so far two possible category’s of solutions to the problem. Mostly by people who are recently griefed.

a: Change the kick-voting system. make more votes needed, make it so that at the final boss, partymembers cant be voted off, etc.
I am against this. The reason is that the freedom to play with who you want is also very important. I do not think we should give up any part of that freedom.

b: Support should be more active and track them down. Yes it should, but they have limited possibility’s to do so. They can’t judge what the ‘quality’ of the kicked player was and do not have access to possible outside commincation like TS/VENT.

So what would my solutions be.

A dishonour system with build in name and shame.
This system is based on the believe that in normal situations you don’t kick very easily and as often as the ‘bad guys’ in this issue.
The system is pretty easy. If you kick someone while you or any partymember is in an dungeon or fractal you get an amount of dishonourable points. If you support the vote you also get a (lesser) amount of dishonourable points. Those points are accountwide and have an expire-time (so after a certain amount of time they are taken away again)

Stage 1 – people who kick regular get marked:
after an certain amount of points you actually get a permanent buff that doesnt do anything and that only goes away when you amount of points drop again below the treshhold for that buff. This means when your in a group with people you can always see that the people you are playing with are often kicking people. You are warned and you can talk with them bout the reason they got it (and leave if the story is fishy)

It doesn’t stop here. The buff doesn’t stop you from kicking players and there are also possible other reasons to get the buff.

Stage 2 – people who don’t change their behaviour and keep building up more dishonour points will get a dungeonlock for a full week.
They are welcome to play all other aspects of the game, but they can’t enter dungeons and they can’t join in. Instead they get an error message telling them they are locked out for xhours – yminutes – zseconds.

Important note: The amount of dishonour points and the time it takes for them to dissolve is NOT communicated to us (the players). The devs can actually adjust it if they think that it leaked out and people are misusing this to stretch the system to the limit.

‘Wait!’ I hear you say. ‘I often kick people at the start of the dungeon cause I asked for level 80’s or bezerker gear and they didn’t meet my requirements.’

I am personally not a big fan of elitism in dungeons. But I do udnerstand that some people just want quick and fast runs and want to be able to select others.

a: it is allready somewhat protected cause before someone in the party opens the instance you can kick people as much as you want to.

b: The LFG-system should have a big change if this is going to be implemented. This change is that when you put down an advert you can checkmark to make it a ‘closed advert’. A closed advert means people can’t auto join ormerge parties, but can pm the person who put up the advert. This pm is done through the interface of the LFG system and will sent the class and level off the player automatically with it. After reviewing the person or asking additional questions you can invite them to the party.

So this would be my suggestion to solve the griefing in dungeons
Please give me your opinions. Is it a good one? is it too complicated?? where do you think it could be simplefied?

Arise, ye farmers of all nations
Arise, opressed of Tyria!

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Posted by: Flissy.4093

Flissy.4093

What a ridiculous system. So I should get penalised because I don’t want someone being abusive, not pulling their weight, or even expecting to leech half the dungeon because they go AFK?

Light Up the Darkness
“Dear ANet, nerf Paper, Scissors is fine. Sincerely, Rock”
Elysaurus | Warrior | [LOL] | League of the Legendary | Gandara (EU)

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Posted by: Lilith Ajit.6173

Lilith Ajit.6173

The closed party is essential as it allows folks to play with who they want. However I see a huge issue with denying people the ability to enter dungeons.

I know they do it in pvp, by disallowing tournaments with the debuff, but I think they can still do solo pvp, right? I’m not fully informed about pvp though.

Anyway, I don’t think this should be implemented. I think that the issue of dungeon kicking should be solved with the change in the lfg system (like you mentioned in b) and possibly through a couple more votes required. Kicking is always going to happen. There’s no way that I’m going to wait the entire 15 minutes when someone DCs to replace them, to avoid a silly debuff.

I am however not opposed to someone who has been labeled as a griefer (legitimately) getting some debuff on their account to warn other players. A certain H word name comes to mind.

[ARES]
And all who stood by and did nothing, who are they to criticize the sacrifices of others?
Our blood has bought their lives.

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Posted by: mercury ranique.2170

mercury ranique.2170

What a ridiculous system. So I should get penalised because I don’t want someone being abusive, not pulling their weight, or even expecting to leech half the dungeon because they go AFK?

No, as stated, the whole idea is based on the fact that people who kick others on purpose to let friends/guildmembers ‘steal’ the reward they didnt deserve, will kick people more often then people who kick for legit reasons. So if you occasionally kick someone it wouldn’t matter at all.

@ Lillith. I don’t think that any change to the LFG-system will solve the problem of kicking at the end boss. (just at the start, as stated, I dislike the elitism in some LFG’s but it should be perfectly allowed)

Arise, ye farmers of all nations
Arise, opressed of Tyria!

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Posted by: Flissy.4093

Flissy.4093

No, as stated, the whole idea is based on the fact that people who kick others on purpose to let friends/guildmembers ‘steal’ the reward they didnt deserve, will kick people more often then people who kick for legit reasons. So if you occasionally kick someone it wouldn’t matter at all.

Can you source the information where you found out more people kick for “illegitimate” reasons than legitimate? I’m still yet to see one of these “boot for a guildie/friend” scenarios in over 3000 hours of playtime.

Light Up the Darkness
“Dear ANet, nerf Paper, Scissors is fine. Sincerely, Rock”
Elysaurus | Warrior | [LOL] | League of the Legendary | Gandara (EU)

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Posted by: Lilith Ajit.6173

Lilith Ajit.6173

I think it’s fair to say that it sucks that very little, if anything, can be done to legitimate griefers. However, as you very well know, what is and is not griefing is very subjective. What you would get here, with this system, is people who don’t deserve any punishment or debuff getting it, because it isn’t fair to anyone to have to carry someone.

Basically it would be a kitten after kitten saying things like “haha you can’t kick me because then you won’t be able to do dungeons so I’m going to sit here and do nothing.”

It’s a bad bad precedent, what they did in pvp, IMO. Doing it to dungeons would make serious dungeon runners who occasionally pug just stop playing, or perhaps pugging altogether (thus leading to not playing) because why should anyone who paid for this game be denied the right to play a specific part? I think it’s despicable, what they did to pvp. I don’t want it to happen to us too.

[ARES]
And all who stood by and did nothing, who are they to criticize the sacrifices of others?
Our blood has bought their lives.

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Posted by: Izaya.2906

Izaya.2906

‘Wait!’ I hear you say. ‘I often kick people at the start of the dungeon cause I asked for level 80’s or bezerker gear and they didn’t meet my requirements.’

I am personally not a big fan of elitism in dungeons. But I do udnerstand that some people just want quick and fast runs and want to be able to select others.

a: it is allready somewhat protected cause before someone in the party opens the instance you can kick people as much as you want to.

Just no.

When you ask for people who know how to play their class & how to run the dungeon for the intention of doing a speed run, you won’t know until the first encounter/when you enter the instance with them & see a bear bow, staff 1 spamming guard, gs camping mes etc. which clearly don’t meet the requirements of a speed run.

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Posted by: mercury ranique.2170

mercury ranique.2170

I think it’s fair to say that it sucks that very little, if anything, can be done to legitimate griefers. However, as you very well know, what is and is not griefing is very subjective. What you would get here, with this system, is people who don’t deserve any punishment or debuff getting it, because it isn’t fair to anyone to have to carry someone.

Basically it would be a kitten after kitten saying things like “haha you can’t kick me because then you won’t be able to do dungeons so I’m going to sit here and do nothing.”

It’s a bad bad precedent, what they did in pvp, IMO. Doing it to dungeons would make serious dungeon runners who occasionally pug just stop playing, or perhaps pugging altogether (thus leading to not playing) because why should anyone who paid for this game be denied the right to play a specific part? I think it’s despicable, what they did to pvp. I don’t want it to happen to us too.

I think you have a point that it can happen that more people get punished. It is why the option to select before you start a pug should made better. If you gahter a group of people round you and enter a dungeon you agree on following some rules. One of them is that you have the common goal to finish the dungeon.

Will this effect some people who kick too easy? Yes. Is that and issue? No.
Again, an occasional kick is no problem. If someone goes afk for 5 minutes it is perfectly ok. If someone doesnt deliver what he promised it is also ok.

But in the current system we are all so obsessed with perfection in runs. Some people panic if the run takes 2 seconds longer then optimum. In some pugs they think it is perfectly ok to kick you if get launched into lava (SE).

The idea behind this is indeed that everyone should realize that when you enter a dungeon with a group of people and you decide to kick someone, you ARE griefing. The person who is kicked is not going to be happy and has a bad experience in game. If this happens from time to time that is no problem. But if you do it a lot more then average you have an attitude to the game that we (the community) do not like.

So the solution is to mark the people with a bad attitude. Namely those that kick people MORE then AVERAGE.

My main goal is those that grief through kicking at final boss. But everyone that kicks more then average has a serious issue in my opinion.

As said, the selection at the gate (with who are you going to play) should be made much better at the start.

Arise, ye farmers of all nations
Arise, opressed of Tyria!

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Posted by: Lilith Ajit.6173

Lilith Ajit.6173

I don’t think it’s fair to say that all kicks are griefing, cause they’re not. Sometimes kicks are warranted and it is not fair for anyone to even get a single point (whether it affects their debuff or not) if the kick was warranted.

I think your aversion to “dungeon elitism” is clouding your judgment here. You’ve probably been in very few groups where a single player or two were just simply, not pulling their weight. It’s always obvious who it is, and when you ask for an experienced player, or berserker, or whatever, it is not fair for a casual player to impose their ideals onto the speed runners, and of course vice versa. However, it is very rare for a speed runner to enter a self stated casual group and expect anything else, because they have felt the pain of people not reading their group descriptions and wouldn’t do the same to anyone else.

I just think you should be looking at this through a different lens, or maybe 2 lenses instead of the one you’re currently using.

[ARES]
And all who stood by and did nothing, who are they to criticize the sacrifices of others?
Our blood has bought their lives.

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Posted by: notabot.3497

notabot.3497

I pug a fair amount and never really had the problems with getting kicked that some people seem to have. 99 percent of the complaints about kicking seem to come from people who aren’t even remotely competent in their class or didn’t do the basic homework to know what to do in a given area, or didn’t read the party descriptions. Sure, there is selling of arah… but dont pug arah and your problems are solved (find some friends, don’t be socially lazy).

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Posted by: Flissy.4093

Flissy.4093

Sure, there is selling of arah… but dont pug arah and your problems are solved (find some friends, don’t be socially lazy).

That is mostly people exploiting, with a few having a few group of friends dropping out to sell that spot splitting the cash, or legitimate soloers. Only a very small minority are people who kick.

Light Up the Darkness
“Dear ANet, nerf Paper, Scissors is fine. Sincerely, Rock”
Elysaurus | Warrior | [LOL] | League of the Legendary | Gandara (EU)

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Posted by: Fror.2163

Fror.2163

A friend and I just started a dungeon instance. We created it because it’s our party and don’t want to be kicked ourselves.

Then we create the LFG: “all paths, zerker, 5k+ AP, 3 warrior, 1 ele, 1 guardian”.

A first guy joins. “What? Why are you in Cursed Shore? We’re doing Arah, not CM? Sorry, misread” – kicked
A second guy joins. “Hey, I’m in knight armor is that ok?” – kicked
A third guy joins. “I have only 300 AP but I’m zerker, can I join?”. – kicked
A fourth guy join. “Hey, I’m a necro” – kicked.

You get it. Why should we be punished for the mistakes of the fail joins?

Frór (yes, with the accent!)

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Posted by: Tachii.3506

Tachii.3506

System is not at all objective and relies on opinions of player base. There is way more cases of people not reading the lfg (hence getting kicked) than people abusing lfg by kicking players at the last stage of fractals.

SBI – Thief and the occasional Guardian & Warrior.

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Posted by: mercury ranique.2170

mercury ranique.2170

A friend and I just started a dungeon instance. We created it because it’s our party and don’t want to be kicked ourselves.

Then we create the LFG: “all paths, zerker, 5k+ AP, 3 warrior, 1 ele, 1 guardian”.

A first guy joins. “What? Why are you in Cursed Shore? We’re doing Arah, not CM? Sorry, misread” – kicked
A second guy joins. “Hey, I’m in knight armor is that ok?” – kicked
A third guy joins. “I have only 300 AP but I’m zerker, can I join?”. – kicked
A fourth guy join. “Hey, I’m a necro” – kicked.

You get it. Why should we be punished for the mistakes of the fail joins?

Again, you should be able to select with who you play before they join up. I totally agree with that and the LFG system should allow that. But as soon as you accept someone in your party you make the agreement that you have the common goal to work as a group. So yes if the LFG tool demands from people to pm you first (as an option versus the current system), when they join you there should be no need anymore to kick them.

The reactions here ismaking me doubt the community.
We are so far that it seems many of you find it perfectly ok to kick someone! And yes. I agree there are situations that a kick is ok.

Recently I did a AC p3 pug. The group was not perfect, but it was an all level group and most where ok. One person however didn’t udnerstand the corner hugging principle at the spider. We had 4 wipes before we got through. Off course we took atleast 5 minutes time to explain why it is important to hug the corner, but everytime, he started in the corner and was seconds in the fight in totally different places.

At Kohler same thing so we decided to skip him after two fails. At that point I warned him that he would be welcome, but the final boss required stacking again, if he would still be failing we had no choice then to kick him.

The burrows went surprisingly good. but at the final boss, again, he made us fail so we decided to kick him.

I understand that many people dont have so much patience, specially if you ask for a speedrun. But what surprises me is how many people think that a kick is something you do as if you swap a weapon. I think it shows how far the community has degraded.

Keep in mind, you can also ask someone to leave instead of kicking him/her.
If you ask for a warrior and get a necro, you can ask them to leave. I bet if you do so, they will in most cases.

A kick is something you should do if all other options are unavailable, and not the first option.

Arise, ye farmers of all nations
Arise, opressed of Tyria!

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Posted by: Bumbler.7581

Bumbler.7581

A fourth guy join. “Hey, I’m a necro” – kicked.

Lulz! Even if you hadn’t specified class in the LFG, I can imagine this as a common response to said statement.

In Chancery (Jade Quarry, NA) – The Instance Mesmer
#readingLFGisOP #savethewarden
#wallsfixdungeons

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Posted by: zerotwo.4731

zerotwo.4731

This issue of being kicked does not happen often enough to need a buff. IF you are being kicked on a regular basis then perhaps its a L2P issue and stick with guildies carrying you instead.

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Posted by: LittleLepton.8915

LittleLepton.8915

Snip

I just don’t think youre getting it. People here don’t just kick pugs for a single mistake, they kick them for multiple. It’s one thing to enter a group and say “I don’t really know what to do.” and another thing entirely to enter a speed run group and not a say a word. That’s what happens all the time. It’s not the dungeon running community, its the folks that will not read or be honest.

You don’t know me.

#LilithFan#1

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Posted by: Cheby Shev.4671

Cheby Shev.4671

.. the OP has this totally backwards, the debuff needs to be on the players who are frequently being kicked, so that the party can see right away that the AH guardian who just joined a level 30 FotM run has been kicked 35 times in the past 90 days.

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Posted by: Fror.2163

Fror.2163

@Cheby
More and more I’m getting kicked because we’re in a speed run pug and I complain one or two members are not suited for speedrun (staff/mace/shield guard anyone?). So where I actually respect the LFG and other people don’t, but it’s not my LFG, then I should get some debuff as well? No!

Frór (yes, with the accent!)

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Posted by: Cheby Shev.4671

Cheby Shev.4671

@Fror
But why complain, kick the baddies, or find yourself another group?

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Posted by: Fror.2163

Fror.2163

Well, that’s exactly what I do: I complain, I suggest to kick and get kicked instead. Don’t you ever run in that situation where the group is too lazy to kick the bad but prompt to kick the complainer? It happens more than it should!

Frór (yes, with the accent!)

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Posted by: swiftpaw.6397

swiftpaw.6397

This system you suggest encourages something. It encourages bad players to join groups they are not supposed to. I advertise for specific players, the bads join regardless because they know I’ll get marked if I kick them and have little choice in the matter. Even now they join over and over thinking they can just sneak in. Many times I have to kick people mid-run because they lie to me about their builds, they swap their gear sets, they ignore instruction and just generally don’t give a kitten. That won’t stop happening with these suggestions but could in fact become even more common now that people know there’s a penalty for trying to get rid of them. There’s more to just dungeon grief than kickers, there are plenty of joiners who think the lfg system is a charity and if you don’t want to carry them you’re an evil scummy elitist.

Grandmaster Forum Mind Brain
|-Swiftpaw Sharpclaw [DnT]-|

(edited by swiftpaw.6397)

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Posted by: knives.6345

knives.6345

If you want to implement this – improve the LFG tool first. There are waaaay more people not reading lfg description that’s being kicked than people getting scammed.

Say, before creating a group, you get some options – you put a check. Any people who is not qualified cannot join and if they switches armor/weapon (by stats ie:zerk, not type ie: GS) while in the group, they get insta-kicked without penalty to the owner.

Armor:
[] Berserker
[] Clerics
[] Knights

Weapon:
[] Berserker
[] Clerics
[] Knights

Rarity:
[]Ascended
[]Exotic
….

Levels:
[min]-[max]

Runes:
[]Scholar
[]Eagle
[]Soldier

Class
[]Warrior
[]Necromancer
[]Ranger
….

Vi Veri Veniversum Vivus Vici

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Posted by: Cheby Shev.4671

Cheby Shev.4671

(me): Is our guardian really running a staff?
(pug player): So what, he has two weapons sets!
(me): /leave

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Posted by: nagr.1593

nagr.1593

Let’s make a list of when its OK to kick ppl though:

1. when they have really low AP. one guildie called a kick on a guy with 560 AP for an experienced post. do I deserve ‘dishonourable’ points for accepting it?
2. when they do not meet reqs of LFG post. a lowbie for an all 80 group? what about a noob who gets the entire party wiped in middle of an ‘exp only!!’ run?
3. its OK to kick kittens. if u disagree with someone, or they dont listen and follow group etc. sometimes this is better and simpler than leaving to find anothr group.
4. its OK to kick AFK ppl. going afk in the middle of a run? u can count on me to wait 1-2 min but after that u will get the boot if u expect us to do all the work for u.

Arun Kar

(edited by nagr.1593)

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Posted by: Bumbler.7581

Bumbler.7581

2. when they do not meet reqs of LFG post

If a "dishonour"system existed, this would be enough to both lock players who want to play a certain way out of dungeons and it would make them quit the game.

In Chancery (Jade Quarry, NA) – The Instance Mesmer
#readingLFGisOP #savethewarden
#wallsfixdungeons

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Posted by: robertul.3679

robertul.3679

Or or..remove the kitten merge button.

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Posted by: Lilith Ajit.6173

Lilith Ajit.6173

Or or..remove the kitten merge button.

What would that solve, apart from that particular form of griefing? This is about kicking folks in the middle of a dungeon because they aren’t pulling their weight.

[ARES]
And all who stood by and did nothing, who are they to criticize the sacrifices of others?
Our blood has bought their lives.

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Posted by: Tree.3916

Tree.3916

How do you programatically distinguish a person who is legitimately kicking someone vs someone who is maliciously kicking someone?

You can’t.

We have a winner. This is why OP’s idea won’t get implemented. (Yay for 15 min flood control)

DnT Apply today if you think you can hang with the best of the best
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(edited by Tree.3916)

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Posted by: Lilith Ajit.6173

Lilith Ajit.6173

How do you programatically distinguish a person who is legitimately kicking someone vs someone who is maliciously kicking someone?

You can’t.

[ARES]
And all who stood by and did nothing, who are they to criticize the sacrifices of others?
Our blood has bought their lives.

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Posted by: Saint.5647

Saint.5647

This might be one of the worst posts I’ve ever read. Could it be any more full of untrue assumptions?

Dishonor? Dishonor? Really? That’s the word you’re going to use?

It’s dishonorable to set a criteria and ask people to meet it? Let’s say I want 3 more players to fill out my speed run. I post for “Speed Run only DPS gear”…someone joins with PVT gear and defensive traits. I have to play with this guy or else I’m dishonorable?

Man, I’m not about being rude or disrespecting people who join. I just have them be on their way if they didn’t read. If anyone could even get these ‘dishonor’ points it would be the people who don’t have the common courtesy to read my LFG.

Just how do you think this ‘majority’ of kicks is happening? I doubt many people are kicking just to be malicious.

Look, I definitely agree there should be no kicks allowed after a certain point without more votes cast. This would help against griefing at bosses or after being in the dungeon for a while. I think within the first few minutes of playing with someone new, you know whether you want them with you on the rest of the dungeon or not.

But seriously, this is the worst system I’ve ever heard of. Players who don’t ‘change their behavior’ will accrue ‘dishonor’ points? What a ridiculous thing to say. How about players who fail to read will accrue ‘moron’ points and won’t be able to join a party for the next 15 minutes?

Solution: LFG Tool search criteria

Potential solution/thing to discuss: Player rating system with different colors. Different ratings for different things. So a player with a high red (dungeons) rating, you know will be a good dungeon runner. He happens to have a low yellow (WvW) rating though so you know what to expect of him there.

One True God
Fashion Forward!
Guild Wars Dinosaur

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Posted by: Fext.3614

Fext.3614

Kicking is there for a reason. So if you think that kicking causes griefing and therefore is bad, why dont you ask for its removal?
If you do not want to be kicked, team with your friends and guildies – people you trust and who like you. Pug is kitten people sometimes.
Also, there are numerous cases when kicking is well deserved.

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Posted by: Ethics.4519

Ethics.4519

No. Bad idea. Next

RIP in peace Robert

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Posted by: Lilith Ajit.6173

Lilith Ajit.6173

I’d like to point out to everyone that while I was following a thread in Account Issues, this was brought up by MR and Gaile Gray recommended she post it here. I said my piece, and basically it was agreed that it should be taken here for discussion.

This thread is likely being watched by developers and CCs, so keep it clean and please present your thoughts and ideas positively and constructively.

<3s to you all.

~Lilith

[ARES]
And all who stood by and did nothing, who are they to criticize the sacrifices of others?
Our blood has bought their lives.

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Posted by: Seera.5916

Seera.5916

This might be one of the worst posts I’ve ever read. Could it be any more full of untrue assumptions?

Dishonor? Dishonor? Really? That’s the word you’re going to use?

It’s dishonorable to set a criteria and ask people to meet it? Let’s say I want 3 more players to fill out my speed run. I post for “Speed Run only DPS gear”…someone joins with PVT gear and defensive traits. I have to play with this guy or else I’m dishonorable?

Man, I’m not about being rude or disrespecting people who join. I just have them be on their way if they didn’t read. If anyone could even get these ‘dishonor’ points it would be the people who don’t have the common courtesy to read my LFG.

Just how do you think this ‘majority’ of kicks is happening? I doubt many people are kicking just to be malicious.

Look, I definitely agree there should be no kicks allowed after a certain point without more votes cast. This would help against griefing at bosses or after being in the dungeon for a while. I think within the first few minutes of playing with someone new, you know whether you want them with you on the rest of the dungeon or not.

But seriously, this is the worst system I’ve ever heard of. Players who don’t ‘change their behavior’ will accrue ‘dishonor’ points? What a ridiculous thing to say. How about players who fail to read will accrue ‘moron’ points and won’t be able to join a party for the next 15 minutes?

Solution: LFG Tool search criteria

Potential solution/thing to discuss: Player rating system with different colors. Different ratings for different things. So a player with a high red (dungeons) rating, you know will be a good dungeon runner. He happens to have a low yellow (WvW) rating though so you know what to expect of him there.

@OP’s idea: No. Because it will hurt the players in the following system (assume all players in the group are friends and the party is full):

Player A: I’ve got to make a phone call. If I’m not back in 5 minutes, kick me and find a new player.
Players B, C, D, & E: Alright.
5 minutes passes and Player A is not back. Being good friends they let it go for another minute or two.
Player B then asks for a kick. Player C seconds.

In your solution, Players B and C would receive dishonor points for something that the group agreed upon! The kick was not done to grief or because Player A didn’t read.

@Chris: Potential solution:

What would you label a person who has 2 sets of gear and retraits depending on whether they’re playing WvW or running dungeons? And the person is very experienced and highly skilled in both WvW and dungeons.

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Posted by: Tree.3916

Tree.3916

I’d like to point out to everyone that while I was following a thread in Account Issues, this was brought up by MR and Gaile Gray recommended she post it here. I said my piece, and basically it was agreed that it should be taken here for discussion.

This thread is likely being watched by developers and CCs, so keep it clean and please present your thoughts and ideas positively and constructively.

<3s to you all.

~Lilith

When has this stopped us before?

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Posted by: Lilith Ajit.6173

Lilith Ajit.6173

I’d like to point out to everyone that while I was following a thread in Account Issues, this was brought up by MR and Gaile Gray recommended she post it here. I said my piece, and basically it was agreed that it should be taken here for discussion.

This thread is likely being watched by developers and CCs, so keep it clean and please present your thoughts and ideas positively and constructively.

<3s to you all.

~Lilith

When has this stopped us before?

Just wanted to say it because I know I act differently when being watched by authority.

[ARES]
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Our blood has bought their lives.

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Posted by: Zahrexsiiszb.8472

Zahrexsiiszb.8472

Trust me, i am punished/dishonored more if i get people i dont want to play with … bearbow ranger, staff 1 spam guard/necro, gs mesmer, afk phase after every mob killed etc.

There should be punishment for not reading lfg title ^^ …

I do not know how much you are kicked from groups and for what … untill Monday till Thursday i did like 50 dungeon runs and i have not been kicked from single one. L2p and you will not be kicked.

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Posted by: Windu The Forbidden One.6045

Windu The Forbidden One.6045

No, this system would penalize those who kick for good reasons as well.

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Posted by: swiftpaw.6397

swiftpaw.6397

Ya’all should see how much dishonored I have on the forums for kittening people off.

Grandmaster Forum Mind Brain
|-Swiftpaw Sharpclaw [DnT]-|

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Posted by: Elrey.5472

Elrey.5472

i love the idea, i’m having a good time reading in this thread all the posts of people who would be dishonoured. Don’t kick players, have a better attitude

BTW, an easy fix to get the right players through the lfg is as easy as a filter that allows the party creator to choose a minimum level, proffessions and that stuff. If someone doesn’t qualifies for it, the joining button wouldn’t be availible.

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Posted by: swiftpaw.6397

swiftpaw.6397

Don’t kick players, have a better attitude

PSA: Better attitude does not = having to carry all the bad/lazy/selfish players every time you go and do a dungeon.

Grandmaster Forum Mind Brain
|-Swiftpaw Sharpclaw [DnT]-|

(edited by swiftpaw.6397)

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Posted by: Pip.2094

Pip.2094

Now..I’ve never been kicked from a team ever…and I always pug…but it’s also true I never really ran too high FotM where it appears this “being kicked at last boss so that a guildie/friend can join” happens the most, according to all the rant/posts we all can see on forum. I think the only solution would be to actually block the kick system when the team is facing the last boss, as OP stated somewhere. If the dude was obnoxious, a bad player, afker or whatever, you see that since the first boss fight, you can’t remember to kick him/her just in the end. To those teams of friends who want to sell dungeons paths: members can simply leave the party.

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Posted by: Stooperdale.3560

Stooperdale.3560

A friend was playing GW2 a while back who always fell asleep literally at the keyboard as he liked to drink beers and stay up playing as long as he could. A kick system was perfect for dealing with him since we could start any content and replace him easily if needed. In previous MMOs we needed to either reform the group or carry on with him missing since there wasn’t a kick facility. That sort of example shows that kicks are not necessarily abusive even if they are repeated.

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Posted by: robertul.3679

robertul.3679

Actually a dishonor system might work but only in conjunction with a built-in inspect function. Neither of these will ever be implemented.

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Posted by: Enaretos.8079

Enaretos.8079

I wouldn’t like having a dishonour system because I’ve been pugging for a year and saw quite the bad players in there :

- That guy that goes AFK in the middle of an instance. After having waited 20 minutes at Lupi we kicked him. Should I be dishonoured ?
- I was asking for experienced players and here comes a lowbie. I talked him into leaving and he started insulting me. Am I bad for having requested a kick against him ?
- When I pug with a friend, we have some guys, we do the dungeon then want to do something else while remaining in the same party. We thus kick the pugs after everyone has gotten out of the dungeon so as not to have to leave and reform OUR party. Should I be dishonoured for this ?

I have other examples as to why this system would grief good people :s

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Posted by: Saint.5647

Saint.5647

@Seera, so for someone who has a lot of experience in both WvW and PvE, they should be highly rated in both. It’s really just a set of metrics.

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Posted by: Seera.5916

Seera.5916

@Chris:

So you’re thinking like something by their name? Like a Red Circle for WvW, Yellow Circle for Dungeons, Blue Cirlce for PvP? Otherwise, a player who is really good in WvW and dungeons but is a little better in WvW would likely show the red circle. Which could lead to those people having issues finding groups for dungeons.

How would you measure how good a person is? Would a person trying out a build to see how well it actually works for them to see if it would be a good casual run build lower their ranking when they might be a good dungeon player?

Would it be character based or account based?

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Posted by: Saint.5647

Saint.5647

@Seera:

Yeah something similar to that. I was thinking more along the lines of it showing whatever rating was currently applicable. In WvW, the WvW rating would show predominantly but you could check other ratings too. A simple example of a helpful situation from this would be with a new commander. You could tell if they just got a tag but did nothing with it.

I don’t think it’s fool proof. Certainly not. But it would give some better metrics than the AP system. Currently the AP system doesn’t really give a great tell of how good a player is. A high AP suggests that a player should have higher skill because they have been playing for longer (played more content). However, we all know that this isn’t often the case.

I usually find my ‘sweet spot’ of good players sitting around 5-8k AP. That’s just my personal experience though so it’s not representative of anything other than my experiences. There will always be outliers to consider as well.

There will of course be people trolling the ratings like there are for any review ever but i think there would be more honest reviews than anything else. After a dungeon run, you rate the PUGs you played with. Or you can not. I think dedicated dungeon players will really police up their fellow players though.

Both account bound and character bound do have distinct benefits and problems associated with them. If it were me, I’d go with account simply because a good player is good. A good guardian may not know ele well but they can learn it faster because they already know the mechanics of the game.

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Posted by: Setz.9675

Setz.9675

Imo, the only good kicking system would require either 3 votes, or the player being in a downed state that is significantly longer then the person above him. Or after the groups receives 2-4 wipes.