Guild Wars 2

SynfulChaot.3169:

sostronk.8167:

I wouldn’t do a dungeon with a sub level 80. I tried dungeons prior to 80 and realised the difficulty with them and decided to come back with a char at 80 and do them, which I have done. I don’t want to play with someone who is going to waste my time by slowing down the dungeon run. There are enough bad level 80s to do that. I don’t see why thats a big deal. Statistically speaking, playing with one or more sub level 80s is going to make the dungeon more difficult and take longer. I can measure that. I can’t measure a persons skill until they have either wasted my time or done what I expected them to do.

It is true that you cannot measure skill until you see them. You also cannot measure gear (I am STRONGLY against an inspect feature, BTW). Judging entirely by level is shortsighted as level tells nothing about how well a player will perform.

Give people a chance once. If it doesn’t work out, don’t party with them again. That way, you get what you want and you don’t come off as total kitten.

It does indicate how much experience they have in the game. Its not equal to skill, but it is an indicator. On my main alone, I am level 80 and over 300+ SP, so I have 380+ levels. Do I think my level 40 teammate is going to be anywhere near the same skill level as me? I highly doubt it.

Leo G.4501:

laokoko.7403:

And judging by your comment saying “they will do a bit less damage”, I can honestly say you must not be very experienced and skilled else you’ll know the difference is actaully quite huge.

Is this coming from someone who actually did the dungeons to level up? Or from someone that tried AC exp once at lvl 35, deemed it hard and waited till lvl 80 to try again?

I didn’t say anything about ac being too difficult. People can solo ac for crying out loud, I’m sure 5 level35 can handle it.

All I’m saying is there is a stats different between a level35 and level80, and the difference is actually quite large.

And to the previous person if you don’t know there is a stats difference and the stats difference is actually quite large, it makes me think you arn’t very experienced.

Now ac isn’t rocket science. So just because you are very skilled you are still doing less than those who are both skilled and experienced.

And I never said anything about me personally being an elitiest. I don’t even do AC anymore. I’m just saying people are being hypocrite if they dont’ think a random "level80 “have higher chance” to outperform a random “level35”.

For sure a level35 on their 6th alt will outperform a level80 inexperienced player. But when you talk about on average, if you can’t agree with that you are just being a hypocrite.

SynfulChaot.3169:

laokoko.7403:

You are indeed leeching because they could invite a person who is both skilled and have max stats.

And judging by your comment saying “they will do a bit less damage”, I can honestly say you must not be very experienced and skilled else you’ll know the difference is actaully quite huge.

If this is truly what you believe, then you are exactly the type of elitist that is being spoken of in this thread.

You can honestly say whatever you want , but without actually seeing how I play you know nothing of how good I am and cannot say truthfully as you do not know the truth. And this is the point I am trying to make.

I’m sorry and I appologize and I shouldn’t use the word “must”. I should say you “probably” isn’t very experienced.

And it doesn’t matter if you are some pro or not. So you did ac 100 times, but so is the other guy who does ac 100 times and have max stats. So he’ll outperform you for sure.

And what are you saying? People shouldn’t invite a low level with no achievement point? You keep talking about being skilled and low level… does that mean people shouldn’t invite people who suck? In that case, you are just like everyone else.

sostronk.8167:

It does indicate how much experience they have in the game. Its not equal to skill, but it is an indicator. On my main alone, I am level 80 and over 300+ SP, so I have 380+ levels. Do I think my level 40 teammate is going to be anywhere near the same skill level as me? I highly doubt it.

It tells you they have gotten to 80 once. That says they are good enough in general PvE to get there. The difficulty for general PvE is excessively low (Except for thieves. Gotta be a decent thief to level to 80 in PvE. They’s squishy!).

If you saw me running an alt in a dungeon, you might pass me over due to me not running an 80. I do teach players new to dungeons the tactics needed in all encounters if they do not already know them. It is better not to assume that all sub-80s know less than you. They could teach you a trick you didn’t already know. You never know until you try.

laokoko.7403:

All I’m saying is there is a stats different between a level35 and level80, and the difference is actually quite large.

And to the previous person if you don’t know there is a stats difference and the stats difference is actually quite large, it makes me think you arn’t very experienced.

There is a stat difference, yes. With dynamic level adjustment, however, that difference is minimal to non-existant provided both charas are in top gear for their level.

laokoko.7403:

And I never said anything about me personally being an elitiest. I don’t even do AC anymore. I’m just saying people are being hypocrite if they dont’ think a random "level80 “on average” will outperform a random “level35”.

Yes, an equally skilled player behind a level 80 and a sub-80 will give differing results. I am saying that the results will not be night and day. Noticable, yes. So noticable as to massively increase the speed of the run? No.

laokoko.7403:

And it doesn’t matter if you are some pro or not. So you did ac 100 times, but so is the other guy who does ac 100 times and have max stats. So he’ll outperform you for sure.

If I did AC 100 times, I’d then have max stats and the tokens for gear.

laokoko.7403:

And what are you saying? People shouldn’t invite a low level with no achievement point? You keep talking about being skilled and low level… does that mean people shouldn’t invite people who suck? In that case, you are just like everyone else.

I’m saying that people should invite low-level charas, provided they are at the minimum recommended level, unless they are going solely for speedruns. I run with whatever levels join, again, provided they are at the minimum recommended level

I didn’t say “anything” about me don’t invite low level people.

And if you think the stats difference is minimal please post the stats of a maxed charcter and the stas of a level 35 character inside AC. And I’ll admit I’m wrong.

laokoko.7403:

All I’m saying is there is a stats different between a level35 and level80, and the difference is actually quite large.

Can we have that quantified, please?

I’d like to get a general estimate at the difference of this deciding factor. For all I know, it may be a hundred or so attack and little else…or it could be a huge gap…I dunno.

And to the previous person if you don’t know there is a stats difference and the stats difference is actually quite large, it makes me think you arn’t very experienced.

The reason I’m asking is because someone has presented evidence that, no, the difference isn’t ‘quite large’. Also, it lines up with the changes recently made as quoted in this thread:

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/info/news/Game-Update-Notes-January-28-2013/first#post1336820

Dynamic Leveling

Attribute calculations for dynamic level scaling have been rebalanced. In general, this means weaker when adjusted down, stronger when adjusted up. Rewards when adjusted down have been increased to compensate. It is now possible to receive your own level of loot from any level of enemy.

That change was implemented on the 28th and is quite possible people have not fully discussed what this means, effectiveness wise.

ya I’m probably wrong since there is an update on Jan 28. But I think previously before the update the difference is something like 50% more power, 2 times mroe toughness and defense, 3 times more crit.

Someone need to redo the stats and check it. I really don’t know. if someone have a level35 they can post their stats and some level80 can check it.

laokoko.7403:

I didn’t say “anything” about me don’t invite low level people.

And if you think the stats difference is minimal please post the stats of a maxed charcter and the stas of a level 35 character inside AC. And I’ll admit I’m wrong.

I do not have the chara slot for the experiment (I only have one chara of each class) and all of my money is tied up in gearing my alts and my legendary hunt, so unfortunately I cannot do this for you.

You may want to read this news post by the lead GW2 designer about dynamic level adjustment so you can see where my point is coming from.

SynfulChaot.3169:

laokoko.7403:

I didn’t say “anything” about me don’t invite low level people.

And if you think the stats difference is minimal please post the stats of a maxed charcter and the stas of a level 35 character inside AC. And I’ll admit I’m wrong.

I do not have the chara slot for the experiment (I only have one chara of each class) and all of my money is tied up in gearing my alts and my legendary hunt, so unfortunately I cannot do this for you.

You may want to read this news post by the lead GW2 designer about dynamic level adjustment so you can see where my point is coming from.

ya I think I’m wrong. I didn’t keep up with the update. I know the stats difference is huge before. It’s probably not much after the last patch.

If anyone have a level35 fill free to post the stats. I’m sure some level80 can check the difference.

SynfulChaot.3169:

laokoko.7403:

All I’m saying is there is a stats different between a level35 and level80, and the difference is actually quite large.

And to the previous person if you don’t know there is a stats difference and the stats difference is actually quite large, it makes me think you arn’t very experienced.

There is a stat difference, yes. With dynamic level adjustment, however, that difference is minimal to non-existant provided both charas are in top gear for their level.

This ^

I did AC naked back in September.

The disadvantage of having a lowie in your party:
lack of traits – always true
may lack some useful skills
may lack personal experience

Gear? Nonfactor when it comes to scaling down.

well, you know, someone fill free to post their level 35 character. This is the stats of my level80 warrior scalling down. Seeing is believing. Fill free to post. If someone have a 35 warrrior we can compare stats.

http://i923.photobucket.com/albums/ad77/Ginobili2010/gw011.jpg

641 power 1023 attack
536 precision 53% crit chance
256 tougness 635 armor
344 vitality 5092 health
56 condition dmg 20% condition duration
30% boon duration 0 healing power
22% crit damage 0% burst damage

5296 hp

Yeah I think the DLA update definitely made the dungeons more challenging. Which I like because let’s be honest – before you could blow through the dungeons with a half decent team. Since the update I see more people rushing to res players asap because they know it’s just more efficient to do so now. I think the lvl 80 elitist mentality is a side effect and isn’t really something you can fix within the game besides getting yourself to level 80 or finding a nice guild that doesn’t mind running with lower levels. I love where the dungeons sit now difficulty wise, it feels like they are where they were intended to be.

dukefx.9730:

SynfulChaot.3169:

laokoko.7403:

All I’m saying is there is a stats different between a level35 and level80, and the difference is actually quite large.

And to the previous person if you don’t know there is a stats difference and the stats difference is actually quite large, it makes me think you arn’t very experienced.

There is a stat difference, yes. With dynamic level adjustment, however, that difference is minimal to non-existant provided both charas are in top gear for their level.

This ^

I did AC naked back in September.

The disadvantage of having a lowie in your party:
lack of traits – always true
may lack some useful skills
may lack personal experience

Gear? Nonfactor when it comes to scaling down.

Someone did post the stats difference before. 50% more power, 3 times more crit, 2 times more toughness and defense. That is no difference? I dont’ know how much have change at the last update but the difference is huge before. After the last update I don’t know.

I congrat you being able to do ac naked. But untill you can solo ac naked I say there is a difference, since people can solo ac but I don’t think they can do it naked.

I don’t know what happen in the last patch someone fill free to post their level35 stats now so people can see it more clearing what really is the difference.

I wish I had a low level anything because all my alts are 80 and I don’t have a desire to level up anything unless a new profession, a new weapon or a new race crops up. I’m generally curious about the difference in raw stats as I’m still sure a scaled down 80 should have at least an advantage from more robust stats from his tri-aspect equipment vs someone pre 60 with only duo-aspect equipment.

SynfulChaot.3169:

There is a stat difference, yes. With dynamic level adjustment, however, that difference is minimal to non-existant provided both charas are in top gear for their level.

Here is the thing though. No player under level 80 is in their top gear for their level. Nobody spends money on top gear for their level because that gear will become obsolete at each level up. So what this mean is sure a lvl 35 will have some lvl 35 gear, but most of their gear will not be lvl 35 simply because they cannot afford it or choose not to buy it because it will become obsolete quickly.

The people who can afford top gear every level up do not do this, because they could just spend money to level to 80 off of crafting and could use the money to buy top gear at lvl 80.

Ok, question for those “experts” defenders of “only 80”: Whats the time difference between an 80 and a 35 dying below a scavengers knock down?

I can answer: none.

A player with out skill or knowledge will die the same in front of a knockdown of a scavenger, simple, learn to dodge and get timing of those kind of attacks, and you will be best no matter the level. Thats only an example by the way.

I compared my lvl32 memser in bad gear with my lvl80 warrior.

the stats is more or less teh same. My warrior got more crit chance but that’s it.

SO ya, peopel are right. there isn’t much difference.

Diviner.7405:

Here is the thing though. No player under level 80 is in their top gear for their level. Nobody spends money on top gear for their level because that gear will become obsolete at each level up. So what this mean is sure a lvl 35 will have some lvl 35 gear, but most of their gear will not be lvl 35 simply because they cannot afford it or choose not to buy it because it will become obsolete quickly.

Not always true. I know many that re-gear every 5 or so levels into top gear. I, personally, kept good gear around from when I was levelling my other charas so I didn’t need to spend the money while still keeping my alts geared.

SynfulChaot.3169:

Diviner.7405:

Here is the thing though. No player under level 80 is in their top gear for their level. Nobody spends money on top gear for their level because that gear will become obsolete at each level up. So what this mean is sure a lvl 35 will have some lvl 35 gear, but most of their gear will not be lvl 35 simply because they cannot afford it or choose not to buy it because it will become obsolete quickly.

Not always true. I know many that re-gear every 5 or so levels into top gear. I, personally, kept good gear around from when I was levelling my other charas so I didn’t need to spend the money while still keeping my alts geared.

ya i think after the last patch the difference is more or less very minimum. There is a difference but it’s not much.

Diviner.7405:

SynfulChaot.3169:

There is a stat difference, yes. With dynamic level adjustment, however, that difference is minimal to non-existant provided both charas are in top gear for their level.

Here is the thing though. No player under level 80 is in their top gear for their level. Nobody spends money on top gear for their level because that gear will become obsolete at each level up. So what this mean is sure a lvl 35 will have some lvl 35 gear, but most of their gear will not be lvl 35 simply because they cannot afford it or choose not to buy it because it will become obsolete quickly.

The people who can afford top gear every level up do not do this, because they could just spend money to level to 80 off of crafting and could use the money to buy top gear at lvl 80.

When im leveling I always carry the best possible gear for my level, so no, your stament is not true.

With how unforgiving some dungeons are and how long some may take, what did you expect?

I am just glad that I finished my dungeon armors before the way point update.

Drachshyish.2319:

You’re not at full power at lvl 80 in AC… Barely at a quarter of your power…

Traits and utilitys . Thats main source of power for our chars. Without full trait tree your char is merely a shadow of his class.

GabGar.4962:

Diviner.7405:

SynfulChaot.3169:

There is a stat difference, yes. With dynamic level adjustment, however, that difference is minimal to non-existant provided both charas are in top gear for their level.

Here is the thing though. No player under level 80 is in their top gear for their level. Nobody spends money on top gear for their level because that gear will become obsolete at each level up. So what this mean is sure a lvl 35 will have some lvl 35 gear, but most of their gear will not be lvl 35 simply because they cannot afford it or choose not to buy it because it will become obsolete quickly.

The people who can afford top gear every level up do not do this, because they could just spend money to level to 80 off of crafting and could use the money to buy top gear at lvl 80.

When im leveling I always carry the best possible gear for my level, so no, your stament is not true.

If you are always caring the best gear for your level, then you could have been lvl 80 with best gear for the amount of money you spent on your gear changes.

Therefore, you are acting illogical by breaking my statement and your argument is invalid.

Illogical statements =/= counterargument

Sergoros.4398:

Drachshyish.2319:

You’re not at full power at lvl 80 in AC… Barely at a quarter of your power…

Traits and utilitys . Thats main source of power for our chars. Without full trait tree your char is merely a shadow of his class.

It depends on the build you are running. You have full access to all skills/utilities at level 30, which is below recommended level for all dungeons. While it is true that you do not have access to all traits, that will only make some builds unusable.

Yes, an 80 will be better. But the difference is too slight to exclude people.

Diviner.7405:

If you are always caring the best gear for your level, then you could have been lvl 80 with best gear for the amount of money you spent on your gear changes.

Therefore, you are acting illogical and your argument is invalid.

Illogical statements =/= counterargument

Spending money on gear does not slow level progression. And some choose to always run best stats. That is not illogical. It may not be efficient, but there is solid logic to using the best gear possible.

SynfulChaot.3169:

Sergoros.4398:

Drachshyish.2319:

You’re not at full power at lvl 80 in AC… Barely at a quarter of your power…

Traits and utilitys . Thats main source of power for our chars. Without full trait tree your char is merely a shadow of his class.

It depends on the build you are running. You have full access to all skills/utilities at level 30, which is below recommended level for all dungeons. While it is true that you do not have access to all traits, that will only make some builds unusable.

Yes, an 80 will be better. But the difference is too slight to exclude people.

Diviner.7405:

If you are always caring the best gear for your level, then you could have been lvl 80 with best gear for the amount of money you spent on your gear changes.

Therefore, you are acting illogical and your argument is invalid.

Illogical statements =/= counterargument

Spending money on gear does not slow level progression. And some choose to always run best stats. That is not illogical. It may not be efficient, but there is solid logic to using the best gear possible.

There is a difference between spending some money on gear and spending money on gear to always be best gear. If you want to be in best gear at every single level possible, you are going to have spend more money then it would take to just max yourself via crafting and having the best gear at lvl 80. Therefore, it is (we will use your word here as you think word choice is oh so important) inefficient to do this. As this thread is all about efficiency, being inefficient is effectively being illogical.

Therefore, a lvl 35 with best gear will never exist because it would inefficient to do so. This thread is about being as efficient as possible. If you are trying to work inefficiency into your argument, then you have already lost the argument.

If you saw me running an alt in a dungeon, you might pass me over due to me not running an 80.

Its a risk im willing to take.

Isslair.4908:

Malediktus.9250:

Maybe people dont want to feel like a twink lvl service.

Pretty much this.

Yea, I agree with this.

I noticed that people I invite or join my party instantly leaves when they see my level 51 mesmur toon.

Diviner.7405:

There is a difference between spending some money on gear and spending money on gear to always be best gear. If you want to be in best gear at every single level possible, you are going to have spend more money then it would take to just max yourself via crafting and having the best gear at lvl 80. Therefore, it is (we will use your word here as you think word choice is oh so important) inefficient to do this. As this thread is all about efficiency, being inefficient is effectively being illogical.

Don’t see how it’s inefficient. You do realize gear quality improves its longevity, yes? Like, level 35 exotic gear is about equivalent to lvl 40 masterwork and lvl 45 fine. Since gear comes in ‘ranges’, all you have to do is buy masterwork when it’s available and you’d more than easily keep up since masterwork gear costs upwards of 5 or so silver per piece. Or you can just spend 20-50 silver on exotic which won’t be replaceable by any equivalent gear until 10-15 levels later. As the stat difference between masterwork and exotics of 15 levels below it may have a difference of 1-3 stat points and 5-10 armor, the only real decision you have to make between longer lasting exotic and equivalent level masterwork is availability of runes and sigils.

Or if you have higher level alts that don’t mind crafting the exotics, like I do, It isn’t difficult to keep your gear up to date for practically no cost at all.

Therefore, a lvl 35 with best gear will never exist because it would inefficient to do so. This thread is about being as efficient as possible. If you are trying to work inefficiency into your argument, then you have already lost the argument.

…this argument is kind of wierd. You’re comparing the efficiency of a group dungeon run to the efficiency of keeping 1 extra set of gear on you? Well I keep at least 1 set of extra gear on my 80s too in case I want to swap to a different build so wouldn’t that balance out?

Anyway, thanks to the people that are looking into the level scaling stat issue. I’d presume, since runes aren’t quite affected by the downscaling (at least that’s what that link said) the difference is indeed there, but that can easily be balanced by better play.

My point, about the whole efficiency argument, is for my play in this game, it’s more efficient to do content that rewards you better (dungeons) for funds toward that character as they grow/when they reach their peak than it is to only do open world, getting less reward and leveling slower. Whatever stat/efficiency gap there may be as a lower lvl character growing inside dungeons is balanced out by the lack of good gear/knowledge/capability you’d have once you reach level 80 and must grind for those things. Basically, you can wait until 80 to get that stuff, or already have it waiting for you. This goes hand-in-hand with those talking about needing to get dungeons done quick because their time is precious. Rather than separating the level grind and the gear grind, you can just combine them and save yourself a heck of alot of time [EDIT] and STILL be practically even with those that took the other path.

ive taken anyone into a dungeon as long as they were the dungeons lvl (ie CoF Exp lvl 75 , anyone 75+ is welcome). the mentality that they have to be 80 to be effective is wrong , you know it , everyone knows it. lets say for example , a lvl 80 isnt rezzing downed players while a lower lvl does , which is being more efficient to the group? guess what ? not the 80.

What I think needs to happen here, is people in defense of sub level 80s need to balance things out. When you post up your LFM on LFG website, ask for players only that aren’t level 80 yet. Meanwhile Ill only play with the level 80s and everything will be in balance.

Honestly, I don’t give a kitten who you team with, sostronk. But I would like to put some light on obvious misconceptions people have with dungeons and how they are ran.

The least one can do is learn something from people attempting to spread knowledge.

vladi.6547:

Think the title says it all pretty much but seems like every party only looks for lvl 80’s these days. It’s not because you have a full lvl 80 party that the dungeon is going to be easier. Personally I believe skill > character level. Really don’t understand why people want level 80’s only, anyone care to explain?

I’m sure you’ve had a sufficient answer to this question by now.

What what is stopping you from forming a lowbie group who accepts the minimum level required for dungeons?

Although we all know the answer to this one, low levels are less likely to get experienced/geared/maximum potential party members which leads to a 40 minute run that should of only taken 10 minutes.

My point of view,

I’m not here to babysit and waste my time and others in a 80’s only experienced run. If a newbie wants to run it and/or isn’t level 80, say so at the beginning that way its a auto-kick at the beginning or the party agrees to show you the ropes.

In short, start your own lowbie groups.

Leo G.4501:

Honestly, I don’t give a kitten who you team with, sostronk. But I would like to put some light on obvious misconceptions people have with dungeons and how they are ran.

The least one can do is learn something from people attempting to spread knowledge.

Its not a misconception. They have lower stats on their characters and do not have the same survivability and damage output that an 80 does. Statistically you are worse off running a lower level. Scaling is not precise, everyone knows this.

sostronk.8167:

Leo G.4501:

Honestly, I don’t give a kitten who you team with, sostronk. But I would like to put some light on obvious misconceptions people have with dungeons and how they are ran.

The least one can do is learn something from people attempting to spread knowledge.

Its not a misconception. They have lower stats on their characters and do not have the same survivability and damage output that an 80 does. Statistically you are worse off running a lower level. Scaling is not precise, everyone knows this.

Again, there is little stat difference due to the updated downscaling. The only real difference comes from traits.

SynfulChaot.3169:

sostronk.8167:

Leo G.4501:

Honestly, I don’t give a kitten who you team with, sostronk. But I would like to put some light on obvious misconceptions people have with dungeons and how they are ran.

The least one can do is learn something from people attempting to spread knowledge.

Its not a misconception. They have lower stats on their characters and do not have the same survivability and damage output that an 80 does. Statistically you are worse off running a lower level. Scaling is not precise, everyone knows this.

Again, there is little stat difference due to the updated downscaling. The only real difference comes from traits.

When I was farming Maw to level my latest character, I was doing around 100 damage for a full burst from 3 skill of a dual pistol with my thief to the shaman boss. I still go there to do my dailys quickly before heading into wvw. I now do over 1100 damage from the same skill. Tell me about how this is a small statistical difference from downward scaling.

sostronk.8167:

SynfulChaot.3169:

sostronk.8167:

Leo G.4501:

Honestly, I don’t give a kitten who you team with, sostronk. But I would like to put some light on obvious misconceptions people have with dungeons and how they are ran.

The least one can do is learn something from people attempting to spread knowledge.

Its not a misconception. They have lower stats on their characters and do not have the same survivability and damage output that an 80 does. Statistically you are worse off running a lower level. Scaling is not precise, everyone knows this.

Again, there is little stat difference due to the updated downscaling. The only real difference comes from traits.

When I was farming Maw to level my latest character, I was doing around 100 damage for a full burst from 3 skill of a dual pistol with my thief to the shaman boss. I still go there to do my dailys quickly before heading into wvw. I now do over 1100 damage from the same skill. Tell me about how this is a small statistical difference from downward scaling.

Upscaling =/= downscaling.

Are you high? You bring up downscaling, I talk about downscaling, then you tell me downscaling is not equal to upscaling…

sostronk.8167:

Are you high? You bring up downscaling, I talk about downscaling, then you tell me downscaling is not equal to upscaling…

You were speaking of a sub-80 chara in Fractals. In Fractals, players are not downscaled to a certain level. They are all upscaled to 80. Thus my response.

sostronk.8167:

Are you high? You bring up downscaling, I talk about downscaling, then you tell me downscaling is not equal to upscaling…

Dungeons downscale all players to the appropriate level. Fractals upscale you to the required levels.

The way it was described is upscaled players will be made stronger and downscaled players would be made weaker.

Another test needs to be done because they are 2 different effects. We’re talking about the majority of dungeons that will dowsnscale a player’s stats to 45, 65, etc and the amount of difference between someone closer to that range and someone from 80 being scaled down to that range.

You’re talking about a low level being scaled UP in strength and, if what you describe is true, it won’t make you equivalent to someone who has access to all their gear’s stats…but when you’re downscaled, you don’t have the same access.

Two different things.

SynfulChaot.3169:

sostronk.8167:

Are you high? You bring up downscaling, I talk about downscaling, then you tell me downscaling is not equal to upscaling…

You were speaking of a sub-80 chara in Fractals. In Fractals, players are not downscaled to a certain level. They are all upscaled to 80. Thus my response.

I was speaking of all dungeons, like this thread is, not just fractals. Although since downscaling formula is so wrong, Ive no doubt upscaling is either.

Leo G.4501:

sostronk.8167:

Are you high? You bring up downscaling, I talk about downscaling, then you tell me downscaling is not equal to upscaling…

Dungeons downscale all players to the appropriate level. Fractals upscale you to the required levels.

The way it was described is upscaled players will be made stronger and downscaled players would be made weaker.

Another test needs to be done because they are 2 different effects. We’re talking about the majority of dungeons that will dowsnscale a player’s stats to 45, 65, etc and the amount of difference between someone closer to that range and someone from 80 being scaled down to that range.

You’re talking about a low level being scaled UP in strength and, if what you describe is true, it won’t make you equivalent to someone who has access to all their gear’s stats…but when you’re downscaled, you don’t have the same access.

Two different things.

Quite the opposite. Im talking about the difference between a level 11 and the same character at level 80 being scaled down to level 11.

sostronk.8167:

Quite the opposite. Im talking about the difference between a level 11 and the same character at level 80 being scaled down to level 11.

What are you talking about? You mentioned Jade Maw and Shaman in Fractals, doing 100 dmg to them but when you got 80, doing 1000 damage more.

Don’t believe I understand what you’re talking about because your level 80 character will not be downscaled to level 11 when fighting Jade Maw or Shaman.

Leo G.4501:

sostronk.8167:

Quite the opposite. Im talking about the difference between a level 11 and the same character at level 80 being scaled down to level 11.

What are you talking about? You mentioned Jade Maw and Shaman in Fractals, doing 100 dmg to them but when you got 80, doing 1000 damage more.

Don’t believe I understand what you’re talking about because your level 80 character will not be downscaled to level 11 when fighting Jade Maw or Shaman.

OH! Im talking about the Frozen Maw chain in Wayfarer.

The thing I hate is, when I see someone with 2k+ achievement points on a level 35. I ask them hold up man, what’s the deal? And they usually tell me leveling my alt. This pisses me off because, if I’m leveling my alt, I’ll stay on my main and swap to my alt when the boss is around 10-15% hp. Bringing a lvl 35 alt only slows down the run. Call me elitist but it’s been 4 months or more since launch, every experienced player should have a 80. If they don’t, go party up with non 80s or unexperienced players and don’t slow us down when we’re asking for SPEED/FAST runs.

Your post seems to be missing a few details David. Like is that person with the alt new to the dungeon, having done it before, what is their highest level character, etc.

for all those people still claiming its because gear, etc, etc, there have been people who’ve tested this. Basically, you’re all being ignorant on the matter who don’t know what they’re talking about

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/dungeons/Level-80s-down-scaling-pugging-and-finding-a-group-for-lower-level-dungeons

as 1 example and this was done 4 months ago BEFORE the last patch. All you people gotta stop getting the idea in your head that you HAVE to be lvl 80 to have a fast and efficient run.

kamikaze kane.1063:

for all those people still claiming its because gear, etc, etc, there have been people who’ve tested this. Basically, you’re all being ignorant on the matter who don’t know what they’re talking about

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/dungeons/Level-80s-down-scaling-pugging-and-finding-a-group-for-lower-level-dungeons

as 1 example

Also remember that downscaling has been updated since then and level 80s are further reduced in stats compared to when this post was originally made.

sostronk.8167:

Leo G.4501:

sostronk.8167:

Quite the opposite. Im talking about the difference between a level 11 and the same character at level 80 being scaled down to level 11.

What are you talking about? You mentioned Jade Maw and Shaman in Fractals, doing 100 dmg to them but when you got 80, doing 1000 damage more.

Don’t believe I understand what you’re talking about because your level 80 character will not be downscaled to level 11 when fighting Jade Maw or Shaman.

OH! Im talking about the Frozen Maw chain in Wayfarer.

Well what was the time difference? When was the thief being level that you’re comparing it too? What factors were involved during either fight? Were others applying vulnerability? Were might stacks involved? AFAIK, using some of my weapons in the same range on my lvl 80 elementalist, I’m hitting for around 200-400.

kamikaze kane.1063:

for all those people still claiming its because gear, etc, etc, there have been people who’ve tested this. Basically, you’re all being ignorant on the matter who don’t know what they’re talking about

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/dungeons/Level-80s-down-scaling-pugging-and-finding-a-group-for-lower-level-dungeons

as 1 example and this was done 4 months ago BEFORE the last patch. All you people gotta stop getting the idea in your head that you HAVE to be lvl 80 to have a fast and efficient run.

Thanks, I’ll give this a read.