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Posted by: ReaperJr.5967

ReaperJr.5967

https://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/3rmwfr/do_ascended_gear_drops_even_exist_anymore/

I really, really dont get this. All that hype of fractals going up to 100, all that talk about fractals being the desired end game content for 5 man parties.. and all it ends up being is a huge gold sink and disappointment. I think, speaking for myself and a vast majority of players, we would rather have the old fractal system back if this was the design intent behind the new fractals.

What a shame.

Lord Ninth \\ Champion Magus
- Primordial Legend
Semi-active.

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Posted by: MonoSodiumGlutamate.4217

MonoSodiumGlutamate.4217

I would like my old fractals back plx this is not desirable.

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Posted by: Linken.6345

Linken.6345

the design intent was to give people that have a shorter time to play be able to play fractals so 1 instead of 4.
Logicaly then the reward have to go down by 3/4th aswell.

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Posted by: Shoe.5821

Shoe.5821

i got an ascended pants box off the 21-50 daily.

shrug

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Posted by: Linken.6345

Linken.6345

I never seen these specific boxes are they new i can always chose what ever armor part
I want from my ascended boxes

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Posted by: Shoe.5821

Shoe.5821

They might be new. IIRC It was a"Raider’s Legging Chest", it lets you select between 6-7 stat combos for ascended leggings. Interestingly one of the stat combos was Zealots.

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Posted by: Linken.6345

Linken.6345

Cool cant wait to see those chests

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Posted by: NovaanVerdiano.6174

NovaanVerdiano.6174

They’re old. They’ve been introduced ages ago for fractals only, because the chance to get kitten armor was soooo high. So instead of letting you pick any part of one stat they made it so you can pick one stat out of multiple of the same category, but only that specific armor part.

Also, you technically still spend the same time in fractals for dailies (since you still have to run three fractals for a daily), so butchering the rewards when they’re meant to be improved (while also saying they move the dungeon rewards) is just inacceptable.

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Posted by: Linken.6345

Linken.6345

But they must have some reason for people to run raids since ascended are suposed to drop there, not taking note of that 99.99% of people will demand people to have full ascended to even run

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Posted by: Substatic.6958

Substatic.6958

But they must have some reason for people to run raids since ascended are suposed to drop there, not taking note of that 99.99% of people will demand people to have full ascended to even run

But then whats the reason to do Fractal? Fractal should be the go to place for ascended armor drops and yield decent gold on the side (Neither are true at the moment). This should be the place you go to ready up for Raids that doesn’t involve spamming F and 1 in a big blob.

Raids should drop ascended too should, but mostly have their very own unique incentive, like the Legendary Armor and ascended trinkets of the new stats (Vipers,etc.). Maybe even some cool weapon new skins.

(edited by Substatic.6958)

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Posted by: lobothegreat.3980

lobothegreat.3980

I don’t even care if fractals give gold, nobody did fractals for gold anyways it was all about the ascended chests and the drop rates for them got NERFED HARD.

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Posted by: hulmen.8713

hulmen.8713

My highest expection of HoT was with fractals. That is the reason I bought the game. I am very dissapointed.

No new content. Check!
Worse rewards when promised better rewards. Check!

I agree with you guys. I liked the old fractals with random paths + the old rewards a lot better.

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Posted by: Jayden Ennok.3687

Jayden Ennok.3687

I miss old fractals, for the rewards and fun too.

Now I spend more time filling up a party than actually playing, most don’t bother even to reply to hi, why should they, 5 mins later they’ll look for another party.

Underworld Vabbi 1.5yr

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Posted by: SkyFallsInThunder.8257

SkyFallsInThunder.8257

Got a chest of gloves yesterday from 21-50 daily. They drop, but the rate has been nerfed into the ground.

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Posted by: Howl.2498

Howl.2498

the design intent was to give people that have a shorter time to play be able to play fractals so 1 instead of 4.
Logicaly then the reward have to go down by 3/4th aswell.

You don’t get ascended boxes by doing islands; you get them by doing dailies. You have to do 5 dailies (11 islands) to maximize your chances of getting an ascended box. In the past, you would have done a run of 50/40/30/20 (16 islands). So maybe you have a basis to argue that the drop rate should be 32% lower per day, since you are running fewer islands per day.

(I’ll ignore for a moment that this limit on the number of islands run for daily rewards is imposed on us rather than by choice — another kind of nerf. I would rather run 16 islands if it meant full rewards.)

Even so, the actual drops rates are far worse than that. Under the old system you had a roughly 1 in 3 chance of getting an ascended box per day. Under the new system, you have a roughly 1 in 30 chance of getting an ascended box per day. A 90% reduction in drop rate.

That’s the difference between putting a new gearset together every three weeks versus every 6 months (assuming you’re lucky enough to get a different piece each time).

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Posted by: Substatic.6958

Substatic.6958

I thought HOT was going to have better loot?

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Posted by: apharma.3741

apharma.3741

I don’t think the idea was that you do less fractals, I think it was to give you greater control over those fractals.

Old system you would have to run 4 islands back to back which depending on difficulty and team can range from 20mins to 2-3 hours if you have a really really bad roll.

Now you can kind of pick and choose the fractals you want to do and when you want to do them.

Still it’s no excuse to turn it into the gold sink and unrewarding monstrosity it is now. I hope they get their act together on this, if I do higher level fractals which require more AR, I expect a unicorn to ride up and present to me something of value and not just another bloomin ring for my ring’older character.

Don’t even get me started on those salvage kits…

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Posted by: Amineo.8951

Amineo.8951

Challenging content? Nope, fighting damage sponges with billions of hp is not fun at all, it just makes encounters like Lame Mai Trin even more annoying, and the rewards are so bad for doing it…

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Posted by: luzt.7692

luzt.7692

Exactly, they made builds as trivial as they are in openworld content with these changes.
If only openworld content could reach the level of challenge from fotm pre-hot.. Marionette?

Time to spend my time and money on Bo3.

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Posted by: Quickfoot Katana.8642

Quickfoot Katana.8642

Posting a reddit thread on official forums in case Devs havent seen it.

Ahaha are all of you people new around here or something?

If Devs have seen something, they clearly saw it on the reddit threads, not the official forums.

Proof? Bugs/exploits posted on Reddit get hotfixed and those on forums are ignored.

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Posted by: JVJD.4912

JVJD.4912

The ascended gear/weapon salvage is BS i agree

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Posted by: Dovienya.6597

Dovienya.6597

the design intent was to give people that have a shorter time to play be able to play fractals so 1 instead of 4.
Logicaly then the reward have to go down by 3/4th aswell.

You don’t get ascended boxes by doing islands; you get them by doing dailies. You have to do 5 dailies (11 islands) to maximize your chances of getting an ascended box. In the past, you would have done a run of 50/40/30/20 (16 islands). So maybe you have a basis to argue that the drop rate should be 32% lower per day, since you are running fewer islands per day.

(I’ll ignore for a moment that this limit on the number of islands run for daily rewards is imposed on us rather than by choice — another kind of nerf. I would rather run 16 islands if it meant full rewards.)

Even so, the actual drops rates are far worse than that. Under the old system you had a roughly 1 in 3 chance of getting an ascended box per day. Under the new system, you have a roughly 1 in 30 chance of getting an ascended box per day. A 90% reduction in drop rate.

That’s the difference between putting a new gearset together every three weeks versus every 6 months (assuming you’re lucky enough to get a different piece each time).

What do you mean 1 in 3 chance of getting an ascended box per day? Do you mean per tier? Or if you do every tier.

Just curious. I did this almost every day. My husband averaged one a week and he only did this for 2 months and only did half the runs I did a day- and from what I’ve heard from others, that’s high.

I understand that mathematically, its reasonable and logical that I happened to fall into the unfortunate 2/3 every single time- but I’m wonder if anyone knows what the actual drop rate was per tier.

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Posted by: Dovienya.6597

Dovienya.6597

the design intent was to give people that have a shorter time to play be able to play fractals so 1 instead of 4.
Logicaly then the reward have to go down by 3/4th aswell.

You don’t get ascended boxes by doing islands; you get them by doing dailies. You have to do 5 dailies (11 islands) to maximize your chances of getting an ascended box. In the past, you would have done a run of 50/40/30/20 (16 islands). So maybe you have a basis to argue that the drop rate should be 32% lower per day, since you are running fewer islands per day.

(I’ll ignore for a moment that this limit on the number of islands run for daily rewards is imposed on us rather than by choice — another kind of nerf. I would rather run 16 islands if it meant full rewards.)

Even so, the actual drops rates are far worse than that. Under the old system you had a roughly 1 in 3 chance of getting an ascended box per day. Under the new system, you have a roughly 1 in 30 chance of getting an ascended box per day. A 90% reduction in drop rate.

That’s the difference between putting a new gearset together every three weeks versus every 6 months (assuming you’re lucky enough to get a different piece each time).

What do you mean 1 in 3 chance of getting an ascended box per day? Do you mean per tier? Or if you do every tier.

Just curious. I did this almost every day. My husband averaged one a week and he only did this for 2 months and only did half the runs I did a day- and from what I’ve heard from others, that’s high. (From what I’ve seen, too, but relative to the entire fractal player base, my sample size is pretty small.)

I understand that mathematically, its reasonable and logical that I happened to fall into the unfortunate 2/3 every single time- an outlier-but I’m wonder if anyone knows what the actual drop rate was per tier. (Compared to what it is now. I’m STILL doing the dailies and still, no ascended box from ANYWHERE in the game on my account.)

(edited by Dovienya.6597)

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Posted by: Bohantopa.5729

Bohantopa.5729

the design intent was to give people that have a shorter time to play be able to play fractals so 1 instead of 4.
Logicaly then the reward have to go down by 3/4th aswell.

You don’t get ascended boxes by doing islands; you get them by doing dailies. You have to do 5 dailies (11 islands) to maximize your chances of getting an ascended box. In the past, you would have done a run of 50/40/30/20 (16 islands). So maybe you have a basis to argue that the drop rate should be 32% lower per day, since you are running fewer islands per day.

(I’ll ignore for a moment that this limit on the number of islands run for daily rewards is imposed on us rather than by choice — another kind of nerf. I would rather run 16 islands if it meant full rewards.)

Even so, the actual drops rates are far worse than that. Under the old system you had a roughly 1 in 3 chance of getting an ascended box per day. Under the new system, you have a roughly 1 in 30 chance of getting an ascended box per day. A 90% reduction in drop rate.

That’s the difference between putting a new gearset together every three weeks versus every 6 months (assuming you’re lucky enough to get a different piece each time).

What do you mean 1 in 3 chance of getting an ascended box per day? Do you mean per tier? Or if you do every tier.

Just curious. I did this almost every day. My husband averaged one a week and he only did this for 2 months and only did half the runs I did a day- and from what I’ve heard from others, that’s high. (From what I’ve seen, too, but relative to the entire fractal player base, my sample size is pretty small.)

I understand that mathematically, its reasonable and logical that I happened to fall into the unfortunate 2/3 every single time- an outlier-but I’m wonder if anyone knows what the actual drop rate was per tier. (Compared to what it is now. I’m STILL doing the dailies and still, no ascended box from ANYWHERE in the game on my account.)

Probably some bias. Some guilds are logging their drop research, if you take Kings# (in this case the pre 23/10/15) values and round them minmally you get chances for dropping weapons or armor of: 50 ~ 16; 40 ~ 9; 30 ~ 6; 20 ~ 5.
This results in a chance of not getting any armor or weapon of 0.6826092 for one day. Running three days would still result in a chance of aproximatly 0.32 of not getting a weapon or armor.

Personally I did not get every chest since HoT release but already got 2 chests, multiple rings and 1 fractal skin.

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Posted by: doombreaker.3710

doombreaker.3710

Probably some bias. Some guilds are logging their drop research, if you take Kings# (in this case the pre 23/10/15) values and round them minmally you get chances for dropping weapons or armor of: 50 ~ 16; 40 ~ 9; 30 ~ 6; 20 ~ 5.
This results in a chance of not getting any armor or weapon of 0.6826092 for one day. Running three days would still result in a chance of aproximatly 0.32 of not getting a weapon or armor.

Personally I did not get every chest since HoT release but already got 2 chests, multiple rings and 1 fractal skin.

Those numbers are misleading though. On average you got an ascended weap or armour every third day before hot.

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Posted by: Bohantopa.5729

Bohantopa.5729

Those numbers are misleading though. On average you got an ascended weap or armour every third day before hot.

How are the numbers misleading? They say that in 32% of cases one does not get at least one weapon or armor chest. So in 68% of cases one does get at least one if one does all 4 runs for 3 days.

I find the expression “on average” far worse, because noone thinks himself on the bad side of the average. People believe that the expression “on average” means that they have a 100% chance if they do it for the amount of time/repetitions.

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Posted by: Howl.2498

Howl.2498

What do you mean 1 in 3 chance of getting an ascended box per day? Do you mean per tier? Or if you do every tier.

I meant if you did 50/40/30/20 (16 islands), thereby maximizing your chances, you would have a roughly 33% (1 in 3 chance) of getting an ascended box each day.

I understand that mathematically, its reasonable and logical that I happened to fall into the unfortunate 2/3 every single time- an outlier-but I’m wonder if anyone knows what the actual drop rate was per tier.

As Bohantopa above mentioned, I used [KING]’s numbers. (Look at the second tab: “Pre 23/10/2015”)

Level 50: 11.9% chance of an armor box, 4.2% of a weapon box. (16.1% total)
Level 40: 6.9% armor, 2.3% weapon. (9.2% total)
Level 30: 4.2% armor, 1.8% weapon. (6% total)
Level 20: 3.7% armor, 0.8% weapon. (4.5% total)

This works out to:

1-((1-0.161)*(1-0.092)*(1-0.06)*(1-0.045)) = 0.316

= roughly 32% chance of getting an ascended box if you run 50/40/30/20 for the day.

That certainly doesn’t mean you’re guaranteed one every three days, I’ve gone a full week and a half of doing 50/40/30/20 without an ascended chest, and I’ve also gotten two in a single day before. It can be pretty streaky. But getting one every 3 or 4 days was pretty common for me.

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Posted by: lobothegreat.3980

lobothegreat.3980

yeah, at this point i just want the old fractals back.

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Posted by: Purple Miku.7032

Purple Miku.7032

yeah, at this point i just want the old fractals back.

This is pretty much what people were saying after the fractured update in late 2013.

Fractals were the best before that update for sure.

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Posted by: doombreaker.3710

doombreaker.3710

Those numbers are misleading though. On average you got an ascended weap or armour every third day before hot.

How are the numbers misleading? They say that in 32% of cases one does not get at least one weapon or armor chest. So in 68% of cases one does get at least one if one does all 4 runs for 3 days.

I find the expression “on average” far worse, because noone thinks himself on the bad side of the average. People believe that the expression “on average” means that they have a 100% chance if they do it for the amount of time/repetitions.

Everything that matters in the end is the average. First of all: why would you be interested in the chance to don’t obtain a chest in 3 days? What does it tell you if you do fractals every day?

On the other hand, when you do fractals every day for a period of a year or so, you are most likely to get the average number of chests. The more fractals you do the closer you will get to the average number. That’s simple statistics.

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Posted by: Howl.2498

Howl.2498

First of all: why would you be interested in the chance to don’t obtain a chest in 3 days? What does it tell you if you do fractals every day?

You’re interested in the chance to not obtain a chest in 3 days because that is the most straightforward way to calculate the chances of getting one or more chests in three days. If you’ll note, he mentioned both, and they are the inverse of each other.

For example, if there is a 32% chance of getting a chest each day, that means there is a 68% chance of not getting a chest. To calculate what your chances of getting at least one chest after three days is, you have to multiply your chances of NOT getting any chest at all each of those days. That is, 0.68*0.68*0.68 = 0.314. Then you take the inverse, which would be 0.686, and that’s your chances of getting at least one chest: 68.6%.

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Posted by: Bohantopa.5729

Bohantopa.5729

Everything that matters in the end is the average. First of all: why would you be interested in the chance to don’t obtain a chest in 3 days? What does it tell you if you do fractals every day?

On the other hand, when you do fractals every day for a period of a year or so, you are most likely to get the average number of chests. The more fractals you do the closer you will get to the average number. That’s simple statistics.

Everything that matters is if you get something or not. The average does not tell you when you will get anything.

If you run for a year you are likely to get close to the actual probability distribution but this could mean you get 8 months of nothing followed by 4 months of 1 chest a day. That is exactly as likely as getting 2 days nothing and 1 chest on the third day for a year (assuming a 12 month year with 30 days a month).

As Howl allready explained why I used the chance of not getting any chest I wont go into more detail, just that if one were to ask “how many days would it need to have a 50% chance to have gotten exactly 1 chest”, which a lot of people will claim is the average, one would need to solve (for n):

0.5 = SUM _(i = 1 to n) [(Chance of not getting a chest)^(i-1) * (Chance of getting a chest)]

Have fun with it, it’s not that hard, i’m just lazy.

(edited by Bohantopa.5729)

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Posted by: Sentinel.5731

Sentinel.5731

Got my first ascended chest yesterday since HOT dropped. Did almost all possible dailies between then and now (something like 38 chests i’ve opened).

So yeah, they def drop (it was the 1-21 chest btw) but the rate is lousy

Morvik Dragonslayer
FF | Nerf

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Posted by: Dovienya.6597

Dovienya.6597

What do you mean 1 in 3 chance of getting an ascended box per day? Do you mean per tier? Or if you do every tier.

I meant if you did 50/40/30/20 (16 islands), thereby maximizing your chances, you would have a roughly 33% (1 in 3 chance) of getting an ascended box each day.

I understand that mathematically, its reasonable and logical that I happened to fall into the unfortunate 2/3 every single time- an outlier-but I’m wonder if anyone knows what the actual drop rate was per tier.

As Bohantopa above mentioned, I used [KING]’s numbers. (Look at the second tab: “Pre 23/10/2015”)

Level 50: 11.9% chance of an armor box, 4.2% of a weapon box. (16.1% total)
Level 40: 6.9% armor, 2.3% weapon. (9.2% total)
Level 30: 4.2% armor, 1.8% weapon. (6% total)
Level 20: 3.7% armor, 0.8% weapon. (4.5% total)

This works out to:

1-((1-0.161)*(1-0.092)*(1-0.06)*(1-0.045)) = 0.316

= roughly 32% chance of getting an ascended box if you run 50/40/30/20 for the day.

That certainly doesn’t mean you’re guaranteed one every three days, I’ve gone a full week and a half of doing 50/40/30/20 without an ascended chest, and I’ve also gotten two in a single day before. It can be pretty streaky. But getting one every 3 or 4 days was pretty common for me.

I thought my husband’s drop rates were crazy high, but they’re actually right on, I’m beginning to think that maybe I’m not an outlier case, that there may be something wrong with my account. I’ve never gotten an ascended box from anywhere in the game.

I know at one point a long time ago they said there was something wrong with the loot tables on certain accounts but I’d have thought that was taken care of a long time ago. Thank you for the in-depth info.

yeah, at this point i just want the old fractals back.

This is pretty much what people were saying after the fractured update in late 2013.

Fractals were the best before that update for sure.

Agreed. I miss being able to do multiple daily tiers on multiple characters. What could possibly have been wrong with that? Its not like fractals gave a lot of loot or gold.

(edited by Dovienya.6597)

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Posted by: Tree.3916

Tree.3916

Each instance is a unique random roll so it is entirely possible to play the game until it is taken offline and never receive a rare drop. (Rare as in uncommon not item rarity)

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