Guild Wars 2

Wtb 15 flying quaggans to fix forum bug.

Cynz.9437:

@Astralporing.1957: fractals are pve, raids are pve; there is huge difference between those and pvp. Your average Joe is not interested in pvp

Your average joe is not interested in raids either (well, apart from rewards perhaps). They are as much a side content as pvp is (they were designed to be for only a minority of players).

Cynz.9437:

(i dare you trying to argue that pvp has bigger population than pve).

Bigger than pve? no way. Bigger than raids? Personally I don’t think so, but it is possible. Those two populations are definitely much, much closer.

Cynz.9437:

Fractals would be threat to raids, because once again, overall they are easier, alone from organization stand point – you need 5 people for fractals, you need 10 people with specific specs for raids.

Raids are meant for the group of players that find fractals too easy. They are aimed at a different subgroup of the population, and as such they cannot be threatened by fractals.
If they are, well… that would speak badly about raid design, and would suggest that perhaps they are not needed at all.

Cynz.9437:

No, this actually really really bad idea. You know what happend when Anet added ascended shards to pvp? Mass of pve’ers flooding ranked, afking at spawn all match, ruining games for actual pvp’ers and collecting shards for easy ascended pieces.

The “mass of players afking at spawn” argument is brought up a lot, but it’s just an anecdotal hearsay, not something that actually happened that often. It’s the equivalent to “kicked at the final boss” stories from dungeons and fractals.

Yes, the rewards brought an influx of people to pvp. It’s not the rewards problem however that this pvp was unable to retain those players, or that those players were perceived as a problem by pvpers Remember, that nothing like that happened when the reward tracks were introduced, even if they also brought a lot of pve people to play pvp.
The problem lies solely with the league design. And with the fact, that pvp managed to lose a lot of its original population long before all this happened.

An influx of new people to fractals would not impact fractals negatively. Especially if those people were experienced raiders.

I also think it funny that you claim that removing rewards that bring people to the gamemode would kill that gamemode, and then try to justify this with an exactly opposite example, where you claim a gamemode was damaged by introducing said rewards.

apharma.3741:

zealex.9410:

apharma.3741:

Lol PvP has a lower population because it’s a stale game mode, I’d be willing to bet outside of the league seasons WvW is more played than PvP. That’s without mentioning class balance atm which is pretty horrific in both those game modes.

I also think it’s a little rediculous asking for legendary armour for fractals, they’re little pieces of content you can run for a bit of fun and a little reward like dungeons used to be. A unique fractal armour skin that isn’t too flashy similar to the ones linked above would be nice especially as PvP has the glorious skins and WvW has its own unique skin too. However if you broaden it to include all of PvE there’s far more skins in PvE than either PvP or WvW.

Not every game mode and type of content needs legendary armour and considering the huge amount of work that’s going into designing them to be worthy of the legendary status I don’t think we should have any more than 1 set.

fractals are bigger end game content than raids for the majority of players :/ Its not a question of does this mode need a legendary armor its more of a question how much would benefit the game if more game modes had legendary armor and imho both pvp wvw would benefit massively as well as fractals as its the content ppl in pve run the most

The thing is that just isn’t feasible considering how long it took a team to come up with the set of legendary armour that was promised with HoT. I mean it’s been nearly 2 years assuming they started development before HoT came out and we still don’t have it in game. That’s without mentioning the new weapons that are coming out in dribs and drabs with the last one being mistaken for a troll legendary.

I guess we disagree, I don’t think bringing legendary armour to PvP or WvW is what either game mode needs right now. Proper class balancing is far more important than the shiny armour, unique armour skins would be nice but in my opinion not legendary as it needs to have a proportionally high cost to getting it.

This is one of the rare instances when i agree with apharma.

@Astralporing.1957:
Raids are marketing feature, frankly so are fractals and about everything in this game. It is all done to keep players interested in game so they continue to play it and buy stuff from gem store. The game has raids → alternative to WoW. I had few friends from WoW and LoL that were willing to play GW2 if it had raids. The problem is, there is also part of players (and i would argue, it is not small) that is doing raids atm due to armor. Such players wouldn’t eve engage the mode if it didn’t offer unique reward.

People afking at spawn is not “anecdotal hearsay”, it happened A LOT in lower ranks (i have been messing around on my alt account, that had 0 MMR basically, low ranks were really really really bad last season due to pve’ers just “grinding” the shards).
Reward tracks didn’t really bring people to pvp because reward tracks are horrendous compared to farming you can do in pve (SW, past AB and co.). The only reason why reward tracks exist is because as pvp’er you made literary 0 gold (except for selling dyes on TP for like 2-3 silver) and it has been issue for years.

Don’t compare pvp to pve, it is apples and oranges. Bringing highly desired pve rewards (ascended) to pvp did ruin the experince for a lot of players and ruined game mode generally. Bringing pve rewards to other pve mode that are exclusive to specific game mode atm, will ruin that specific game mode simply because once again, raids are harder than fractals generally and average Joe would always chose path of less resistance.
Here is the thing too: let’s assume i could get all fractal rewards from pvp/raids – i would never touch fractals again. I do not enjoy it, generally i find pve beyond boring comparison (beside LS) and i am not even going to start on quality of pug groups.

apharma.3741:

Lol PvP has a lower population because it’s a stale game mode, I’d be willing to bet outside of the league seasons WvW is more played than PvP. That’s without mentioning class balance atm which is pretty horrific in both those game modes.

I also think it’s a little rediculous asking for legendary armour for fractals, they’re little pieces of content you can run for a bit of fun and a little reward like dungeons used to be. A unique fractal armour skin that isn’t too flashy similar to the ones linked above would be nice especially as PvP has the glorious skins and WvW has its own unique skin too. However if you broaden it to include all of PvE there’s far more skins in PvE than either PvP or WvW.

Not every game mode and type of content needs legendary armour and considering the huge amount of work that’s going into designing them to be worthy of the legendary status I don’t think we should have any more than 1 set.

These “little pieces of content” are more popular than pvp or raids, and most probably are more popular than both of them put together.

apharma.3741:

The thing is that just isn’t feasible considering how long it took a team to come up with the set of legendary armour that was promised with HoT. I mean it’s been nearly 2 years assuming they started development before HoT came out and we still don’t have it in game.

Well, if they spent so much time and effort on it, and it would end up as content only for a tiny minority, it would be a work mostly wasted.

Rednik.3809:

apharma.3741:

Lol PvP has a lower population because it’s a stale game mode, I’d be willing to bet outside of the league seasons WvW is more played than PvP. That’s without mentioning class balance atm which is pretty horrific in both those game modes.

I also think it’s a little rediculous asking for legendary armour for fractals, they’re little pieces of content you can run for a bit of fun and a little reward like dungeons used to be. A unique fractal armour skin that isn’t too flashy similar to the ones linked above would be nice especially as PvP has the glorious skins and WvW has its own unique skin too. However if you broaden it to include all of PvE there’s far more skins in PvE than either PvP or WvW.

Not every game mode and type of content needs legendary armour and considering the huge amount of work that’s going into designing them to be worthy of the legendary status I don’t think we should have any more than 1 set.

These “little pieces of content” are more popular than pvp or raids, and most probably are more popular than both of them put together.

I can see why too, I can hop online right now and so long as I have 3 friends I can do the daily T4 fractals inside 30 mins. I can even hop on and just do one of them in 5 mins or a little longer if pugging and they aren’t amazing.

This cannot be done with raids, they are long term content you have to practise and learn to play your role within the group. I will still be raiding when legendary armour is done and it’s one of the only things keeping my friends interested in the game. In fact I only started raiding and by extension commanding our raids because many of my WvW friends were logging into the game less and less and this was my effort to keep us together which sort of worked.

As for PvP, it has a lot of things wrong with it, you can’t really hop into a match and play casually at the press of a button and earn the rewards you want. It also has a lot of balance issues when the elite specs were launched while not changing much over then last 4 years leading to it feeling stale.

Astralporing.1957:

apharma.3741:

The thing is that just isn’t feasible considering how long it took a team to come up with the set of legendary armour that was promised with HoT. I mean it’s been nearly 2 years assuming they started development before HoT came out and we still don’t have it in game.

Well, if they spent so much time and effort on it, and it would end up as content only for a tiny minority, it would be a work mostly wasted.

thing is the wvw population ahs no rewards and and season pvp arguable has more population and fractals are the main pve content end game according to what devs want it to be so it makes sense

apharma.3741:

Rednik.3809:

apharma.3741:

Lol PvP has a lower population because it’s a stale game mode, I’d be willing to bet outside of the league seasons WvW is more played than PvP. That’s without mentioning class balance atm which is pretty horrific in both those game modes.

I also think it’s a little rediculous asking for legendary armour for fractals, they’re little pieces of content you can run for a bit of fun and a little reward like dungeons used to be. A unique fractal armour skin that isn’t too flashy similar to the ones linked above would be nice especially as PvP has the glorious skins and WvW has its own unique skin too. However if you broaden it to include all of PvE there’s far more skins in PvE than either PvP or WvW.

Not every game mode and type of content needs legendary armour and considering the huge amount of work that’s going into designing them to be worthy of the legendary status I don’t think we should have any more than 1 set.

These “little pieces of content” are more popular than pvp or raids, and most probably are more popular than both of them put together.

I can see why too, I can hop online right now and so long as I have 3 friends I can do the daily T4 fractals inside 30 mins. I can even hop on and just do one of them in 5 mins or a little longer if pugging and they aren’t amazing.

This cannot be done with raids, they are long term content you have to practise and learn to play your role within the group. I will still be raiding when legendary armour is done and it’s one of the only things keeping my friends interested in the game. In fact I only started raiding and by extension commanding our raids because many of my WvW friends were logging into the game less and less and this was my effort to keep us together which sort of worked.

As for PvP, it has a lot of things wrong with it, you can’t really hop into a match and play casually at the press of a button and earn the rewards you want. It also has a lot of balance issues when the elite specs were launched while not changing much over then last 4 years leading to it feeling stale.

It took time to practice and learn to do the challenge mode too ppl didnt just op in and be done in half an hour. Once you get the fight down you can simply go in and clear it with no much trouble for raids the long term aspect is created by the existance of legendary armor which keeps you doing them with a gold in mind and ppl from there can decide if they want to do it after or not the same thing can easily aply to fractals if in the future more cm’s like the 100 cm give gredit towards getting the legendary fractal armor making it long term after that one can decide if they will stick with doing the challenge modes or not. I do agree that wvw and pvp need to be properly refined and balanced before giving them such a reword since ppl would complain that they play an unbalanced and unfun mode for the rewards. But iv also heard from alot of ppl that the main thing wvw needs are rewards like legendary armor and such

zealex.9410:

apharma.3741:

Rednik.3809:

apharma.3741:

Lol PvP has a lower population because it’s a stale game mode, I’d be willing to bet outside of the league seasons WvW is more played than PvP. That’s without mentioning class balance atm which is pretty horrific in both those game modes.

I also think it’s a little rediculous asking for legendary armour for fractals, they’re little pieces of content you can run for a bit of fun and a little reward like dungeons used to be. A unique fractal armour skin that isn’t too flashy similar to the ones linked above would be nice especially as PvP has the glorious skins and WvW has its own unique skin too. However if you broaden it to include all of PvE there’s far more skins in PvE than either PvP or WvW.

Not every game mode and type of content needs legendary armour and considering the huge amount of work that’s going into designing them to be worthy of the legendary status I don’t think we should have any more than 1 set.

These “little pieces of content” are more popular than pvp or raids, and most probably are more popular than both of them put together.

I can see why too, I can hop online right now and so long as I have 3 friends I can do the daily T4 fractals inside 30 mins. I can even hop on and just do one of them in 5 mins or a little longer if pugging and they aren’t amazing.

This cannot be done with raids, they are long term content you have to practise and learn to play your role within the group. I will still be raiding when legendary armour is done and it’s one of the only things keeping my friends interested in the game. In fact I only started raiding and by extension commanding our raids because many of my WvW friends were logging into the game less and less and this was my effort to keep us together which sort of worked.

As for PvP, it has a lot of things wrong with it, you can’t really hop into a match and play casually at the press of a button and earn the rewards you want. It also has a lot of balance issues when the elite specs were launched while not changing much over then last 4 years leading to it feeling stale.

It took time to practice and learn to do the challenge mode too ppl didnt just op in and be done in half an hour. Once you get the fight down you can simply go in and clear it with no much trouble for raids the long term aspect is created by the existance of legendary armor which keeps you doing them with a gold in mind and ppl from there can decide if they want to do it after or not the same thing can easily aply to fractals if in the future more cm’s like the 100 cm give gredit towards getting the legendary fractal armor making it long term after that one can decide if they will stick with doing the challenge modes or not. I do agree that wvw and pvp need to be properly refined and balanced before giving them such a reword since ppl would complain that they play an unbalanced and unfun mode for the rewards. But iv also heard from alot of ppl that the main thing wvw needs are rewards like legendary armor and such

I say raids are more long term as you can’t just get a few friends and clear raids, it takes weeks to get to the point where you might be clearing a wing if not longer based on your friends. You could pug and join training runs but even then it takes a lot more commitment to get to the point where raids are weekly clears than fractals.

Even then raids are very rewarding giving a decent amount of gold and the magnetite is a great way to get HoT stats with exotics guaranteed.

Also yes some people did hop into nightmare fractal challenge mote and do it in just over half an hour. The thing that made my group take a long time was we had 1 guy who was essentially useless and another who was lagging out most of the time to the point he could barely do anything. However another group of my friends did do it in about 30 mins or just over for the first time. Did it the other day with some friends and it was done reasonably quickly, druid as always carrying very hard.

I do in time would love to see a fractal legendary armour ..Although, I’d also just be happy to see fractal based armour

apharma.3741:

zealex.9410:

apharma.3741:

Rednik.3809:

apharma.3741:

Lol PvP has a lower population because it’s a stale game mode, I’d be willing to bet outside of the league seasons WvW is more played than PvP. That’s without mentioning class balance atm which is pretty horrific in both those game modes.

I also think it’s a little rediculous asking for legendary armour for fractals, they’re little pieces of content you can run for a bit of fun and a little reward like dungeons used to be. A unique fractal armour skin that isn’t too flashy similar to the ones linked above would be nice especially as PvP has the glorious skins and WvW has its own unique skin too. However if you broaden it to include all of PvE there’s far more skins in PvE than either PvP or WvW.

Not every game mode and type of content needs legendary armour and considering the huge amount of work that’s going into designing them to be worthy of the legendary status I don’t think we should have any more than 1 set.

These “little pieces of content” are more popular than pvp or raids, and most probably are more popular than both of them put together.

I can see why too, I can hop online right now and so long as I have 3 friends I can do the daily T4 fractals inside 30 mins. I can even hop on and just do one of them in 5 mins or a little longer if pugging and they aren’t amazing.

This cannot be done with raids, they are long term content you have to practise and learn to play your role within the group. I will still be raiding when legendary armour is done and it’s one of the only things keeping my friends interested in the game. In fact I only started raiding and by extension commanding our raids because many of my WvW friends were logging into the game less and less and this was my effort to keep us together which sort of worked.

As for PvP, it has a lot of things wrong with it, you can’t really hop into a match and play casually at the press of a button and earn the rewards you want. It also has a lot of balance issues when the elite specs were launched while not changing much over then last 4 years leading to it feeling stale.

It took time to practice and learn to do the challenge mode too ppl didnt just op in and be done in half an hour. Once you get the fight down you can simply go in and clear it with no much trouble for raids the long term aspect is created by the existance of legendary armor which keeps you doing them with a gold in mind and ppl from there can decide if they want to do it after or not the same thing can easily aply to fractals if in the future more cm’s like the 100 cm give gredit towards getting the legendary fractal armor making it long term after that one can decide if they will stick with doing the challenge modes or not. I do agree that wvw and pvp need to be properly refined and balanced before giving them such a reword since ppl would complain that they play an unbalanced and unfun mode for the rewards. But iv also heard from alot of ppl that the main thing wvw needs are rewards like legendary armor and such

I say raids are more long term as you can’t just get a few friends and clear raids, it takes weeks to get to the point where you might be clearing a wing if not longer based on your friends. You could pug and join training runs but even then it takes a lot more commitment to get to the point where raids are weekly clears than fractals.

Even then raids are very rewarding giving a decent amount of gold and the magnetite is a great way to get HoT stats with exotics guaranteed.

Also yes some people did hop into nightmare fractal challenge mote and do it in just over half an hour. The thing that made my group take a long time was we had 1 guy who was essentially useless and another who was lagging out most of the time to the point he could barely do anything. However another group of my friends did do it in about 30 mins or just over for the first time. Did it the other day with some friends and it was done reasonably quickly, druid as always carrying very hard.

that fact that in raids it takes time to make the first clear is also becaise there will be ppl who cant do something right prime example was deimos nrmal mode where ppl couldnt understamd that you stay away from the blacks. And that depends on player skill just like the cm 100 ofc it will be cleared faster since getting 5 ppl is easier than taking 10 but depending your firends the clear can take days as well in the cm 100 and no it doesnt take weeks to clear the whole wing that depends onyour friends skill and ability to avoid kittening up u could also at release keep kittening up 1 of the various mechanics the bosses has in 100 cm and lose the fight.

We’re almost at a year and a half since the release of Spirit Vale and still no legendary armor, if they tried to make a separate set for fractals and pvp it would take 6 years.

Wasabi Kitty.8247:

We’re almost at a year and a half since the release of Spirit Vale and still no legendary armor, if they tried to make a separate set for fractals and pvp it would take 6 years.

id apreciate it if you could provide us with the nath that lead you to this.

zealex.9410:

Wasabi Kitty.8247:

We’re almost at a year and a half since the release of Spirit Vale and still no legendary armor, if they tried to make a separate set for fractals and pvp it would take 6 years.

id apreciate it if you could provide us with the nath that lead you to this.

zealex.9410:

I think in the future aquiring legendary armor from diff modes would be a really cool idea and great insentive to do more of the content the game has. Imho fractals could benefit greatly from having in the future their own fractal themed legendary armor. Now i understand this would take time to materialise but again theres no real issue as fractals are easily accesible end game and ppl play it for the good rewards regardless. Adding a long term prestigious reward like that would be amazing. As for the li problems this could be easily be bipassed by having the items for it be farmable through challenge motes only like the existing ones (100 cm) so ppl are not gated from doimg their normal t4 clears. We saw this with the backpiece as well since ppl didnt ask for anything like that when pugging mai trin or w/e back when it was first released.

Adding legendary armor to other types of content would be really nice indeed, in a very similar way when the first Ascended items were added to the game (rings) they were exclusives to Fractals and now they are spread around a lot. I wonder what they have in store for Fractals in the future.

Wasabi Kitty.8247:

We’re almost at a year and a half since the release of Spirit Vale and still no legendary armor, if they tried to make a separate set for fractals and pvp it would take 6 years.

First, a new Legendary Armor skin for any other game mode won’t start development until after the raid armor is ready. And if they go that route and select, let’s say Fractals, the pvp legendary armor will be developed after the Fractal version is complete. It only makes sense to do them in order so one does not hinder progress on the other.
Second, how long it will take is irrelevant. Once they decide to make new legendary armor skins, they might assign more resources to it.

maddoctor.2738:

zealex.9410:

I think in the future aquiring legendary armor from diff modes would be a really cool idea and great insentive to do more of the content the game has. Imho fractals could benefit greatly from having in the future their own fractal themed legendary armor. Now i understand this would take time to materialise but again theres no real issue as fractals are easily accesible end game and ppl play it for the good rewards regardless. Adding a long term prestigious reward like that would be amazing. As for the li problems this could be easily be bipassed by having the items for it be farmable through challenge motes only like the existing ones (100 cm) so ppl are not gated from doimg their normal t4 clears. We saw this with the backpiece as well since ppl didnt ask for anything like that when pugging mai trin or w/e back when it was first released.

Adding legendary armor to other types of content would be really nice indeed, in a very similar way when the first Ascended items were added to the game (rings) they were exclusives to Fractals and now they are spread around a lot. I wonder what they have in store for Fractals in the future.

Wasabi Kitty.8247:

We’re almost at a year and a half since the release of Spirit Vale and still no legendary armor, if they tried to make a separate set for fractals and pvp it would take 6 years.

First, a new Legendary Armor skin for any other game mode won’t start development until after the raid armor is ready. And if they go that route and select, let’s say Fractals, the pvp legendary armor will be developed after the Fractal version is complete. It only makes sense to do them in order so one does not hinder progress on the other.
Second, how long it will take is irrelevant. Once they decide to make new legendary armor skins, they might assign more resources to it.

My point pretty much, looking at legendary armor like that is not healthy for a game ppl should be getting excited in the thought of more stuff to look forward to in their favourite game modes regardless of how long it takes to implement (well sort of they gotta refine how they make armors in this game).

SlippyCheeze.5483:

zealex.9410:

Wasabi Kitty.8247:

We’re almost at a year and a half since the release of Spirit Vale and still no legendary armor, if they tried to make a separate set for fractals and pvp it would take 6 years.

id apreciate it if you could provide us with the nath that lead you to this.

<time taken so far> * <amount of grump> == <unreasonably high number>

It’s the classic forum math, just like “7 percent reduction in one ability damage” == “nerfed INTO THE GROUND!”

i cried when i saw this and kitten me i was in class gg man Cx

Ultimately, people are just after the “shiny of the month”…or in the case of legendary armor “shiny of the decade”. So, the game will naturally attract an audience if there where you can get your shinies the fastest.

• Dungeon died once the rewards were taken away but saw a moderate return in players when they up’d the rewards and added the repeatable achievement.
• Fractals died when they reworked the island system which simultaneously reworked the drop rate of rewards. It wasn’t until two months or so after the island rework that they up’d encryption rewards that you saw players coming back by the herd.
• On top of the long term goal of legendary armor, raids themselves are a pretty good source of loot, but generally you pull a walk-in-walk out. As in once you get your loot you’re moving on to the next shiny.
• Oh, and the PvP catastrophe of adding a legendary backpiece there. For one, I was one of those “PvP casuals” who thought he could get an easy shiny. And yes, I was terrible at the game mode. and I can only imagine the hardship on the players who indeed had to carry players like me who didn’t know what they were doing. I mean, you had entire match-making reworks that tried to accommodate the influx of casuals that came into the game mode looking to get the shiny.

All that to say that if it’s decided that new legendary armor is introduced (or at least a new way to acquire it) you will immediately see an influx of players shift over to that content. Even as casual as fractals are, there is a such thing as bad pugs, and you can definitely add to that pool if Legendary armor is introduced to that game mode. And please spare PvP from another influx of casuals ruining their fun because I can only imagine the amount of pain and misery they went through everytime they had a casual on the team saying “Oh yeah, I got this build off of metabattle and smacked a golem for a few minutes while waiting on the queue.”

At the end of the day, players will pick the path of least resistance for their rewards. If you want to avoid the herding? Just make Legendary armor V2 as painful and tedious as having to do raids.

zealex.9410:

Wasabi Kitty.8247:

We’re almost at a year and a half since the release of Spirit Vale and still no legendary armor, if they tried to make a separate set for fractals and pvp it would take 6 years.

id apreciate it if you could provide us with the nath that lead you to this.

6 years was a (minor) exaggeration.

However:

First wing was released on November 17th 2015. However this means that they had been working on the legendary armor since before then, and it was announced a couple months prior. So we’re just a bit shy of a year and a half since release. Now with the last release just happening we’ll get it at the earliest with episode 5 of the living story. So May/June for legendary armor at the earliest. Given that legendary armor was at least planned as early as August/September 2015 (when it was announced) we’re looking at just shy of 2 years for it. So lets say they finish the legendary armor in May and announce fractal legendary armor. Going from announcement to the beginning stages of implementation to release, you’re looking at early 2018 to actually get it and that’s with a very conservative estimate. Most likely mid to late 2018 or early 2019.

Wasabi Kitty.8247:

zealex.9410:

Wasabi Kitty.8247:

We’re almost at a year and a half since the release of Spirit Vale and still no legendary armor, if they tried to make a separate set for fractals and pvp it would take 6 years.

id apreciate it if you could provide us with the nath that lead you to this.

6 years was a (minor) exaggeration.

However:

First wing was released on November 17th 2015. However this means that they had been working on the legendary armor since before then, and it was announced a couple months prior. So we’re just a bit shy of a year and a half since release. Now with the last release just happening we’ll get it at the earliest with episode 5 of the living story. So May/June for legendary armor at the earliest. Given that legendary armor was at least planned as early as August/September 2015 (when it was announced) we’re looking at just shy of 2 years for it. So lets say they finish the legendary armor in May and announce fractal legendary armor. Going from announcement to the beginning stages of implementation to release, you’re looking at early 2018 to actually get it and that’s with a very conservative estimate. Most likely mid to late 2018 or early 2019.

Alternatively, we would have to have an alternative method for obtaining legendary insights and the precursor pieces. But that’s a whole new can of worms of “how do we balance it, how do we make it fair, do we want to focus on a certain group of players again, etc”.

It’s not like they add a mechanical advantage to the game, so I don’t really see a need for the armor to be accessible outside of raids. Even if you can change the stats there’s still the whole mess of needing to slot in runes to match the stats. Fashion Wars argument? Okay, you got me there are armor skins are huge in this game. I will never understand why people dump their life savings into these things….

savacli.8172:

Ultimately, people are just after the “shiny of the month”…or in the case of legendary armor “shiny of the decade”. So, the game will naturally attract an audience if there where you can get your shinies the fastest.

• Dungeon died once the rewards were taken away but saw a moderate return in players when they up’d the rewards and added the repeatable achievement.
• Fractals died when they reworked the island system which simultaneously reworked the drop rate of rewards. It wasn’t until two months or so after the island rework that they up’d encryption rewards that you saw players coming back by the herd.
• On top of the long term goal of legendary armor, raids themselves are a pretty good source of loot, but generally you pull a walk-in-walk out. As in once you get your loot you’re moving on to the next shiny.
• Oh, and the PvP catastrophe of adding a legendary backpiece there. For one, I was one of those “PvP casuals” who thought he could get an easy shiny. And yes, I was terrible at the game mode. and I can only imagine the hardship on the players who indeed had to carry players like me who didn’t know what they were doing. I mean, you had entire match-making reworks that tried to accommodate the influx of casuals that came into the game mode looking to get the shiny.

All that to say that if it’s decided that new legendary armor is introduced (or at least a new way to acquire it) you will immediately see an influx of players shift over to that content. Even as casual as fractals are, there is a such thing as bad pugs, and you can definitely add to that pool if Legendary armor is introduced to that game mode. And please spare PvP from another influx of casuals ruining their fun because I can only imagine the amount of pain and misery they went through everytime they had a casual on the team saying “Oh yeah, I got this build off of metabattle and smacked a golem for a few minutes while waiting on the queue.”

At the end of the day, players will pick the path of least resistance for their rewards. If you want to avoid the herding? Just make Legendary armor V2 as painful and tedious as having to do raids.

Thats why i suggested that fractal legendary armor it we ever get one should be through cm’s and such and not the general t4 dailies. As for the pvp it was a mix of reasons 1 it was the backpiece a good jester sure but it lead to all that bs another and bigger imho problem was how bs and crap mm and the ranked was in general where everyone and their mother could get to legend that was what lead to the bad mm at that time.

The game for the most part has a horizondal progression on the end game so a big part of the end game is the cosmetic aspect and the fashion wars 2 so the more things to look forward to and to go for the better.

Wasabi Kitty.8247:

zealex.9410:

Wasabi Kitty.8247:

We’re almost at a year and a half since the release of Spirit Vale and still no legendary armor, if they tried to make a separate set for fractals and pvp it would take 6 years.

id apreciate it if you could provide us with the nath that lead you to this.

6 years was a (minor) exaggeration.

However:

First wing was released on November 17th 2015. However this means that they had been working on the legendary armor since before then, and it was announced a couple months prior. So we’re just a bit shy of a year and a half since release. Now with the last release just happening we’ll get it at the earliest with episode 5 of the living story. So May/June for legendary armor at the earliest. Given that legendary armor was at least planned as early as August/September 2015 (when it was announced) we’re looking at just shy of 2 years for it. So lets say they finish the legendary armor in May and announce fractal legendary armor. Going from announcement to the beginning stages of implementation to release, you’re looking at early 2018 to actually get it and that’s with a very conservative estimate. Most likely mid to late 2018 or early 2019.

dont forget they had to make some new tech for that armor which took time on each own and developing that wierd idea of a living armor for thefirst time was a challenge but i cant see why they couldnt refine and improve and reduce the time needed after that wjen they have the basics down. Pretty much like fractals at the start they said a fractal takes like what 4 to 7 months and since the season 3 we got what? 2 fractals 2-3 reworks a overhaul of infusions and new weapons as well. I also expect the next expac to behave the same since they have the systems down elite soecs masteries etc they can refine them improve and produce faster results and more.

savacli.8172:

Wasabi Kitty.8247:

zealex.9410:

Wasabi Kitty.8247:

We’re almost at a year and a half since the release of Spirit Vale and still no legendary armor, if they tried to make a separate set for fractals and pvp it would take 6 years.

id apreciate it if you could provide us with the nath that lead you to this.

6 years was a (minor) exaggeration.

However:

First wing was released on November 17th 2015. However this means that they had been working on the legendary armor since before then, and it was announced a couple months prior. So we’re just a bit shy of a year and a half since release. Now with the last release just happening we’ll get it at the earliest with episode 5 of the living story. So May/June for legendary armor at the earliest. Given that legendary armor was at least planned as early as August/September 2015 (when it was announced) we’re looking at just shy of 2 years for it. So lets say they finish the legendary armor in May and announce fractal legendary armor. Going from announcement to the beginning stages of implementation to release, you’re looking at early 2018 to actually get it and that’s with a very conservative estimate. Most likely mid to late 2018 or early 2019.

Alternatively, we would have to have an alternative method for obtaining legendary insights and the precursor pieces. But that’s a whole new can of worms of “how do we balance it, how do we make it fair, do we want to focus on a certain group of players again, etc”.

It’s not like they add a mechanical advantage to the game, so I don’t really see a need for the armor to be accessible outside of raids. Even if you can change the stats there’s still the whole mess of needing to slot in runes to match the stats. Fashion Wars argument? Okay, you got me there are armor skins are huge in this game. I will never understand why people dump their life savings into these things….

The rune arguement will or will not be solved regardless of the legendary armor staying raid exclusive or not making a new one for fractals will not affect that. The balancing of how fast you get it is also meh because the method of aquiring the armor and the required stuff was in game long ago ppl already have all the mats ready and the items and w8 for the precursor that makes you think that balancing the process of making is not the hardest part and then why should it be considered as a main reason for not giving legendary armor else where? The biggest challenge of the armor is to design and materialise the god kitten thing lol xD

apharma.3741:

Wtb 15 flying quaggans to fix forum bug.

the wut bug?

zealex.9410:

Thats why i suggested that fractal legendary armor it we ever get one should be through cm’s and such and not the general t4 dailies. As for the pvp it was a mix of reasons 1 it was the backpiece a good jester sure but it lead to all that bs another and bigger imho problem was how bs and crap mm and the ranked was in general where everyone and their mother could get to legend that was what lead to the bad mm at that time.

The game for the most part has a horizondal progression on the end game so a big part of the end game is the cosmetic aspect and the fashion wars 2 so the more things to look forward to and to go for the better.

Entirely new CM’s would need to be made because the current CM’s are don’t pose nearly the challenge that would justify rewarding Legendary armor (in regards to quest-like and/or difficulty). Even the Nightmare CM can be casually done after a few wipes once you realize “oh, that’s a lot faster than I thought it’d be.”.

savacli.8172:

zealex.9410:

Thats why i suggested that fractal legendary armor it we ever get one should be through cm’s and such and not the general t4 dailies. As for the pvp it was a mix of reasons 1 it was the backpiece a good jester sure but it lead to all that bs another and bigger imho problem was how bs and crap mm and the ranked was in general where everyone and their mother could get to legend that was what lead to the bad mm at that time.

The game for the most part has a horizondal progression on the end game so a big part of the end game is the cosmetic aspect and the fashion wars 2 so the more things to look forward to and to go for the better.

Entirely new CM’s would need to be made because the current CM’s are don’t pose nearly the challenge that would justify rewarding Legendary armor (in regards to quest-like and/or difficulty). Even the Nightmare CM can be casually done after a few wipes once you realize “oh, that’s a lot faster than I thought it’d be.”.

more cm’s will be made anyways due to popular demand. The feedback iirc was mostly from ppl wanting to see more and yes it can be cleared fast when you get it down same aplies to raids tho once the team has down their jobs and the tactic you gets clears pretty fast.

savacli.8172:

Entirely new CM’s would need to be made because the current CM’s are don’t pose nearly the challenge that would justify rewarding Legendary armor (in regards to quest-like and/or difficulty).

Difficulty and challenge are raids’ schtick. Effort for other legendary armor sets does not need to be done alongside the same paths.

Just as effort for pvp and fractal backpacks took a very different shape.

zealex.9410:

apharma.3741:

Wtb 15 flying quaggans to fix forum bug.

the wut bug?

You must be new around these parts. Last person to post on a page will usually have their post disappear unless a new page is created this allowing everyone to see it. You can technically wait for someone else to post but most people fix it by posting something.

Also why is everyone so hung up about fractal armour being legendary? Why not go for just a unique skin that 1) you won’t need to bankrupt yourself for and 2) can simply be designed and dropped into the game while tying it to an appropriate accomplishment.

apharma.3741:

Also why is everyone so hung up about fractal armour being legendary?

More like a lot of people do not like that raids (content designed and meant for minority) have a monopoly on a whole gear category.

apharma.3741:

Why not go for just a unique skin that 1) you won’t need to bankrupt yourself for and 2) can simply be designed and dropped into the game while tying it to an appropriate accomplishment.

Ask yourself the same question about raid legendary armor. Does it really need to be legendary? Can’t it just be an ascended with unique skin?

apharma.3741:

zealex.9410:

apharma.3741:

Wtb 15 flying quaggans to fix forum bug.

the wut bug?

You must be new around these parts. Last person to post on a page will usually have their post disappear unless a new page is created this allowing everyone to see it. You can technically wait for someone else to post but most people fix it by posting something.

Also why is everyone so hung up about fractal armour being legendary? Why not go for just a unique skin that 1) you won’t need to bankrupt yourself for and 2) can simply be designed and dropped into the game while tying it to an appropriate accomplishment.

sure asc armor works too but with legendary armor as we saw with the envoy heavy set they can go balls to the walls with the design and the effect and the better the effect the bigger the interest it creates for the players. Also if 1 thing fractal based gear weapns backpiece are known for its the amazing effects i simply feel that they could not do justice to a fractal set if its not legendary.

Astralporing.1957:

apharma.3741:

Also why is everyone so hung up about fractal armour being legendary?

More like a lot of people do not like that raids (content designed and meant for minority) have a monopoly on a whole gear category.

apharma.3741:

Why not go for just a unique skin that 1) you won’t need to bankrupt yourself for and 2) can simply be designed and dropped into the game while tying it to an appropriate accomplishment.

Ask yourself the same question about raid legendary armor. Does it really need to be legendary? Can’t it just be an ascended with unique skin?

im not against the raid legendary i can do raids to get that specific set im just not really into it atm(really enjoy raiding tho), im supportive tho that its for the game’s best interest to have cool unique rewards like legendary armor in more than one and arguably small part of the game.

Astralporing.1957:

apharma.3741:

Also why is everyone so hung up about fractal armour being legendary?

More like a lot of people do not like that raids (content designed and meant for minority) have a monopoly on a whole gear category.

apharma.3741:

Why not go for just a unique skin that 1) you won’t need to bankrupt yourself for and 2) can simply be designed and dropped into the game while tying it to an appropriate accomplishment.

Ask yourself the same question about raid legendary armor. Does it really need to be legendary? Can’t it just be an ascended with unique skin?

Could be however ANet wanted to put in legendary armour and chose to link it partly to raids as it was a selling point for HoT. If they had linked it to old content you’d be in some kind of weird situation where you’re capable of doing all the same content and challenges without getting the reward because you didn’t fork out on the expansion.

If you look at all the parts of the legendary armour it is almost entirely linked to HoT, you get the gift of craftsmanship in the new map, you get the gift of the pact from new map currencies, the mystic tribute is from HoT only (not sure if core can even see that tab) and the precursor is from HoT content raids.

You wouldn’t be able to do this with fractals as it is core content essentially open to all. Like I say we would be better off with a unique ascended fractal armour set, it reduces the cost immensely and it can be tied to content from fractals. PvP and WvW also have unique armour sets, glorious and triumphant and I have to admit some of the pieces look great and I won’t be bothered if they aren’t legendary.

Xevv.9175:

zealex.9410:

Xevv.9175:

Theres also something to be said of by the time youre actually able to craft the kitten stuff youll probably be able to make 1 set from doing vg/escort and slightly more than that for the last year and a half…

Hardly the “epic challenge” alot of people want to claim raiding is.

also while I could care less if they put the legendary fractal back skin on the raid vendor, im not sure its an accurate comparison. it doesnt take nearly as long to make a back skin, and its taking them to make this armor.

of course Im also probably in the majority, I dont give a crap what it looks like, only going to use it for the minimal use of stat changing and will transmute mine seconds after putting it on anyway.

And how all this is against having more legendary armors in diff parts of the game?

Its not, but if you think theyre going to spend months of design team making new legendary armor skins when its taking them this long to make the first set. Youre delusional.

Which means the only hope you have of getting it in other modes is getting the set that will come from raids. Notice how people are already crying they dont want that to happen.

You can hope for a fractal or wvw or whatever set all you want. Its just an unrealistic expectation sadly. You can feel free to come tell me I was wrong if it ever does happen though…. good luck with that.

Or they could just release blank legendary armor items for fractals, spvp and wvw.
Like they talked about doing for weapons to get two of the same kind through crafting.

apharma.3741:

Astralporing.1957:

apharma.3741:

Also why is everyone so hung up about fractal armour being legendary?

More like a lot of people do not like that raids (content designed and meant for minority) have a monopoly on a whole gear category.

apharma.3741:

Why not go for just a unique skin that 1) you won’t need to bankrupt yourself for and 2) can simply be designed and dropped into the game while tying it to an appropriate accomplishment.

Ask yourself the same question about raid legendary armor. Does it really need to be legendary? Can’t it just be an ascended with unique skin?

Could be however ANet wanted to put in legendary armour and chose to link it partly to raids as it was a selling point for HoT. If they had linked it to old content you’d be in some kind of weird situation where you’re capable of doing all the same content and challenges without getting the reward because you didn’t fork out on the expansion.

If you look at all the parts of the legendary armour it is almost entirely linked to HoT, you get the gift of craftsmanship in the new map, you get the gift of the pact from new map currencies, the mystic tribute is from HoT only (not sure if core can even see that tab) and the precursor is from HoT content raids.

You wouldn’t be able to do this with fractals as it is core content essentially open to all. Like I say we would be better off with a unique ascended fractal armour set, it reduces the cost immensely and it can be tied to content from fractals. PvP and WvW also have unique armour sets, glorious and triumphant and I have to admit some of the pieces look great and I won’t be bothered if they aren’t legendary.

gliding was also brought into core tyria after a while to and that arguement that ppl would garm the normal stuff and get no reward since they dont have the expac is allthough understandable kind of invalid because these ppl already miss out on the masteries that afect fractals like better rewards for ar singularities etc

zealex.9410:

apharma.3741:

Astralporing.1957:

apharma.3741:

Also why is everyone so hung up about fractal armour being legendary?

More like a lot of people do not like that raids (content designed and meant for minority) have a monopoly on a whole gear category.

apharma.3741:

Why not go for just a unique skin that 1) you won’t need to bankrupt yourself for and 2) can simply be designed and dropped into the game while tying it to an appropriate accomplishment.

Ask yourself the same question about raid legendary armor. Does it really need to be legendary? Can’t it just be an ascended with unique skin?

Could be however ANet wanted to put in legendary armour and chose to link it partly to raids as it was a selling point for HoT. If they had linked it to old content you’d be in some kind of weird situation where you’re capable of doing all the same content and challenges without getting the reward because you didn’t fork out on the expansion.

If you look at all the parts of the legendary armour it is almost entirely linked to HoT, you get the gift of craftsmanship in the new map, you get the gift of the pact from new map currencies, the mystic tribute is from HoT only (not sure if core can even see that tab) and the precursor is from HoT content raids.

You wouldn’t be able to do this with fractals as it is core content essentially open to all. Like I say we would be better off with a unique ascended fractal armour set, it reduces the cost immensely and it can be tied to content from fractals. PvP and WvW also have unique armour sets, glorious and triumphant and I have to admit some of the pieces look great and I won’t be bothered if they aren’t legendary.

gliding was also brought into core tyria after a while to and that arguement that ppl would garm the normal stuff and get no reward since they dont have the expac is allthough understandable kind of invalid because these ppl already miss out on the masteries that afect fractals like better rewards for ar singularities etc

Exactly. All they’d need to do is lock it behind either fractal or precursor crafting masteries.
It’s not like there aren’t other things locked like that already.