Guild Wars 2

haviz.1340:

Remids me of august/september.

Well said.

I didn’t read through all of this, but I think the issue is that you guys make things harder, but the reward isn’t adjusted. It’s not like AC was incredibly easy to begin with. Yes it was easy and it was being ran a lot, but it’s not like CoF path 1 which takes 5 minutes to run. Honestly I enjoy the changes, but it seems silly that the rewards aren’t adjusted.

Just look at dragon chests and meta-event chests. We are all SOOOO thankful that they increased the drops now. You know what, this is what IT WAS like a couple of months ago, then they nerfed the rate into oblivion. It took a couple of months to realize that people aren’t going to spend the time for crappy rewards.

Xavori.3768:

Uh. There is no mechanic for dealing with cc spamming gravelings. Eventually you will run out of endurance and stun breakers.

This is the only problem i’ve personally encountered so far with the new changes. Once you get knocked down by the new howling king graveling spawns…their CC spam is going to keep you down until you are dead. That is not fun or interesting.

I do like the cave troll changes. I’ve never been a fan of Kohler as I guess I just fail at dodging that “I win” move of his. The general consensus of players I’ve done AC with is that Kohler is not a fun encounter …explicitly because of his “I win” move. If anything, that encounter should have had an added or more explicit “tell” when he is about to do that to enable better timing of dodge rolls. You can tell that is not a good encounter when the majority of your player base skips that fight.

I’ve only attempted the new AC once and did complete it in a pug on the first try, so its not too bad. I’ve only done one path since the update though and the reports of new bugs like ghost eater and squishy NPCs do not instill confidence in trying the other paths yet.

After trying a few more runs, I’m having massive issues finding a pug party that wants to finish this new version. Most people get really frustrated and leave, so we have to get more people in and these people also get frustrated. AC used to be how I leveled my alts. It was a fun method as I really enjoyed the aesthetic of AC and the Ascalonian lore within.
Now I feel like the only methods I have is to spend a crapton of money crafting, so I don’t learn how to play the class and have to spend more money at the end on gear or slog my way through open world questing, which I find really dull since doing so on my first character.

Of course, I could try other dungeons but CM kicks your kitten hard, I really hate TA and other dungeons past that are too far away for my 43 Theif to think about.

Robert Hrouda.1327:

All new stuff in dungeons is going to be hard for the first few days. We see it all the time with new content – people fail and get knocked down when they aren’t used to that sort of thing, and they claim it is too difficult.
Give it a week or so for everyone to develop strategies, learn encounters, and build fundamentals, and they will claim it is too easy. Trust me when I say this, the numbers are punishing (but less than they were before), but knowing the mechanics will greatly mitigate the danger.

This is somewhat accurate. As more people play it and learn the encounters it will become more easy to complete. However, what bothered me about this is that I feel the focus needs to be on scaling down some of the dungeons first before worrying about the easier ones. Ever since the WP change the only 2 dungeons that the majority of players run are CoF and AC (and FoM). This is because the others are extremely difficult for most pugs (heck most non pugs). People get frustrated and upset when they are forced to wipe over and over again when they are giving it their best efforts. Now with the AC update a lot of people won’t want to put in the time to learn new fights or will have limited patience. I don’t think it’s fair to ask the player base to have to re learn a whole dungeon that they’ve already put time into learning. If this was just to fix bugs or make a fight that may have been lackluster more fun that’s one thing but completely flipping what people knew is another. I would really hate to be at the point where CoF is the only thing people want/are willing to do on a regular basis. v.v Honestly I just feel like there should have been other dungeons that should have received priority on getting an overhaul.

Robert,

Did path 2 yesterday so we could see the changes. I have to say I liked the changes to the silvers. Very nice. The Spider boss is no longer a cake walk so I will enjoy the new challenge to that boss. I miss the old Kholer though. He was tougher this guy just isn’t the same but meh not a biggie.

However in path 2 with the chains, I have never ever had any lag when they rush in. I am the “bait” but it was near impossible with the horrid lag. Several people in the party complained. I have a pretty mean machine and again never experienced it pre patch, but something needs to be looked at there.

The Ghosteater fight is tough until you learn the mechanics…. then it’s cake. Unless it glitches…. which it seems to do fairly routinely. The boss just doesn’t move. He gets stuck.

Only thing we could see to fix it is to get out of combat waypoint to reset it. It helped and then we were able to complete it.

Going to try the other paths here this week. I think it’s a mixed bag on the change.

Robert Hrouda.1327:

All new stuff in dungeons is going to be hard for the first few days. We see it all the time with new content – people fail and get knocked down when they aren’t used to that sort of thing, and they claim it is too difficult.
Give it a week or so for everyone to develop strategies, learn encounters, and build fundamentals, and they will claim it is too easy. Trust me when I say this, the numbers are punishing (but less than they were before), but knowing the mechanics will greatly mitigate the danger.

We’ve seen some changes overall to the game. With some good intentions. But the execution more often than not, being the status quo atm, isn’t much to say well done.

It’s true, for us 80 dungeon runners, all it takes is to run a few times, get used to the mechanics and be done with it.

But AC has been THE dungeon for teething newbies. For this lot, your NEW customers, whether its the old AC or new AC, it’s going to be ‘NEW’ for them either way.

It’s more challenging now. I like it. Am I going to think twice bringing under level 80 characters now? Yes I am. So now AC requires some decent dungeon awareness, dodging, condition removal, surviving etc. Where do newbies go then?

As it is, casuals occasionally post that content is too ‘hard’. It’s not to me. Not by a longshot. But, you just screwed them over from an easy dungeon to learn.

You guys seem to not realise what you designed it for vs what it represents in the game is different, and it is what the latter that matters. The former would only take precedence if this was a sandbox game.

Just introduce some silly new gear or skin. Bring back old ac and new ac. Call the new AC hardcore mode or something. I repeat myself, the new AC is actually ‘interesting’ now. Thanks. I have to give credit where its due. But bring back the old ac too. Or just something for the new players.

They have nothing now.

I don’t mind the changes and being challenged more in there as such, but as several people before me already said… the new AC seems awfully hard for new players who only just started the game and experience this as their first dungeon. Actually I feel sorry for all the new people who wander in there now at level 35.

I remember how me and my guildies felt back then, despite being a full guild group and having played several different MMOS before, GW2 has very different combat mechanics that took us all a long time to get used to. Using all your dodges, actually casting while moving etc etc. Even in the old AC, we were constantly dying and never even had a clue what hit us for most of the time.
Eventually we gave up on this and tried the next dungeon instead – CM, which isn’t really any more forgiving (knockbacks etc..) and I still consider that one a pain in the butt nowadays.

The bottom line is, hard encounters like this so early in the game can be very disheartening for new players, please don’t underestimate this.
Two friends and guildies of mine who we used to play MMOs with for several years gave up on this game within the first few months after release because they felt they just couldn’t get the hang of dungeon fights at all.
It really was a very steep learning curve for all of us, because there is no “easy” place to practise. Even AC and CM story modes are awfully hard for people at level 30/40 imho. AC path 2 used to be easier than those and a good place to recommend to new players, but those days are over now.

Maybe it would be a good idea to introduce a rather easy-mode “introduction” dungeon for new players at some point. One to learn the ropes bit by bit, where you learn about traps and all those little things without being overwhelmed by them cause you are still busy trying to find your attack buttons.
That way the “farmable” token-rewarding dungeons for level 80 people can be treated as a seperate and challenging thing without totally scaring off new people who will find it harder and harder to get comfortable with this game.

Velkyn.5168:

I don’t mind the changes and being challenged more in there as such, but as several people before me already said… the new AC seems awfully hard for new players who only just started the game and experience this as their first dungeon. Actually I feel sorry for all the new people who wander in there now at level 35.

I remember how me and my guildies felt back then, despite being a full guild group and having played several different MMOS before, GW2 has very different combat mechanics that took us all a long time to get used to. Using all your dodges, actually casting while moving etc etc. Even in the old AC, we were constantly dying and never even had a clue what hit us for most of the time.
Eventually we gave up on this and tried the next dungeon instead – CM, which isn’t really any more forgiving (knockbacks etc..) and I still consider that one a pain in the butt nowadays.

The bottom line is, hard encounters like this so early in the game can be very disheartening for new players, please don’t underestimate this.
Two friends and guildies of mine who we used to play MMOs with for several years gave up on this game within the first few months after release because they felt they just couldn’t get the hang of dungeon fights at all.
It really was a very steep learning curve for all of us, because there is no “easy” place to practise. Even AC and CM story modes are awfully hard for people at level 30/40 imho. AC path 2 used to be easier than those and a good place to recommend to new players, but those days are over now.

Maybe it would be a good idea to introduce a rather easy-mode “introduction” dungeon for new players at some point. One to learn the ropes bit by bit, where you learn about traps and all those little things without being overwhelmed by them cause you are still busy trying to find your attack buttons.
That way the “farmable” token-rewarding dungeons for level 80 people can be treated as a seperate and challenging thing without totally scaring off new people who will find it harder and harder to get comfortable with this game.

I’m just worried that their idea of ‘dungeon introduction’ equates to story mode.

Uncle Salty.6342:

I’m just worried that their idea of ‘dungeon introduction’ equates to story mode.

In that case I think story modes are way too hard to do that job, too. I just levelled another character to 80 and did AC and CM story modes at the suggested level. With friends, with level 80 toons! And seriously, I found them harder than the “easy” paths in explo mode.

My idea of “introduction” would be a more tutorial-like thing, a bit similar to all the pop up explanations you get when you enter the Heart of the Mists for the first time.
“Traps – look out for the thin red circles on the ground that are easy to miss in between all the spell effects, and use your dodge to get out, running just might not do it”… “Gargoyle head – traps like this can shoot at you from the distance, make sure to take them out, they are small and easy to miss…”

I mean it might seem a little embarassing to more experienced players now, but when I think back to how we felt at the beginning of this game, being taken by the hand like that was what we would have needed…

And my next thought is, are people even still supposed to be able to level in dungeons at all or are explo-modes meant for level 80s only in the future?
In that case it would be a good idea to label them as such, because when you are level 35 and receive an official invitation letter to continue your adventures in AC… and then fail horribly… it is anything but encouraging, because obviously you feel like you must just suck too much to be able to handle this game the way it is meant to be played. And that puts people off..

Velkyn.5168:

Uncle Salty.6342:

I’m just worried that their idea of ‘dungeon introduction’ equates to story mode.

In that case I think story modes are way too hard to do that job, too. I just levelled another character to 80 and did AC and CM story modes at the suggested level. With friends, with level 80 toons! And seriously, I found them harder than the “easy” paths in explo mode.

My idea of “introduction” would be a more tutorial-like thing, a bit similar to all the pop up explanations you get when you enter the Heart of the Mists for the first time.
“Traps – look out for the thin red circles on the ground that are easy to miss in between all the spell effects, and use your dodge to get out, running just might not do it”… “Gargoyle head – traps like this can shoot at you from the distance, make sure to take them out, they are small and easy to miss…”

I mean it might seem a little embarassing to more experienced players now, but when I think back to how we felt at the beginning of this game, being taken by the hand like that was what we would have needed…

And my next thought is, are people even still supposed to be able to level in dungeons at all or are explo-modes meant for level 80s only in the future?

I’ve got mixed feelings about your tutorial concept.

Let’s use this analogy. When you buy shelving from Ikea, do you bother reading the instructions? Or just in your mind aggregate, would others?

Granted people might benefit. But when it comes down to the fight itself, dungeon awareness, proper builds, gears etc doesn’t come from just one tutorial. It takes an extended play to learn and come to terms with what needs to be done. A tutorial just wouldn’t accomplish enough.

Uncle Salty.6342:

I’ve got mixed feelings about your tutorial concept.

Let’s use this analogy. When you buy shelving from Ikea, do you bother reading the instructions? Or just in your mind aggregate, would others?

Granted people might benefit. But when it comes down to the fight itself, dungeon awareness, proper builds, gears etc doesn’t come from just one tutorial. It takes an extended play to learn and come to terms with what needs to be done. A tutorial just wouldn’t accomplish enough.

I agree there, especially about the whole builds and gear thing. But that’s exactly the problem – as a new player who might not even be used to games where you need to think about where you actually put your points, all of this can be very overwhelming at first.
If you fail, you just don’t know why. Did you stand in an AoE, did a mob get you, were you supposed to dodge, is your armor wrong or your build too weird?
That’s the kind of stuff I think new people need to get a chance to worry about bit by bit, not all at once. There is just so many things going on in dungeons at the same time, you never really get a break with the difficulty they currently have.

I just think the learning curve for dungeons is much too steep, for one due to GW2’s combat system that differs a lot from what most people are used to, and secondly because of the dungeon designs themselves. I don’t know how exactly to make it easier for new players, so the tutorial practise-dungeon was just an idea..
Raising the difficulty of the first dungeon the game however seems to go completely in the opposite direction there.

It’s a funny thing. They really did a great job with the revamp, but they took away an essential stepping stone to the game as well.

As you say new players are oblivious to the many things that necessitates a dungeon run. AC was lenient in that manner. Well past tense now.

AC, the changes to the Krait and the more “interesting” Orr simply betray a misunderstanding of game genre and game tuning. The MMO is not about crushing challenge. In another well known MMO, I’ve done thousands of heroic dungeons and normal mode raids. I know good mechanics and bad mechanics. I know appropriate tuning when I see it and this ain’t it.

With an advanced background in Monty Python I realize we are always at risk of becoming silly, but Anet seems intent on taking it to a new level. On 2/27 after fully experiencing the “improvements” of the patch, I simply took myself to a new game, well, an old game.

One thing I’d like to add is that Robert did a fantastic job integrating the story of the explorables into the gameplay. You actually use Detha’s traps now, and there’s a reason now that you recruit Grath’s help to take down Rumblus.

AC used to feel like a bunch of random events strung together, but now there’s a logical reason everything is being done. Thanks for that, Robert.

You guys balanced the earliest lvl 35 dungeon for lvl 80 characters….

Oglaf.1074:

You guys balanced the earliest lvl 35 dungeon for lvl 80 characters….

Oops.
And 90% of the population including the content designer have an awesome tunnel vision, so focus to the track & are completely oblivious to the fact that there is a light coming from the other end of the tunnel.

Oglaf.1074:

You guys balanced the earliest lvl 35 dungeon for lvl 80 characters….

At the risk of sounding sarcastic, which I promise you I’m not, you nailed it spot on. I didn’t even think about this, but it’s so simple and it’s the basic root cause.

Even in another post he said they removed tokens from story mode because pro-dungeon runners would spam story mode to get tokens. That’s not fair to the beginners or casuals who just want a fun dungeon experience.

I’ve read through some of this, but not all of it. I’m probably going to say something similar to someone else, but whatever.

This dungeon is still very doable, but anyone who says that it’s easier is just plain wrong. I liked AC before because I thought it was fun to run through it with people who were less than level 80. It was pretty cool to see that as long as people listened, it could be done. Now, even when I’m in groups that are all level 80 with exotic gear, and where everyone is following along with a strategy, it seems to take a minimum of an hour. Usually, it takes more than an hour. In a week, I’m pretty sure an average group of level 80s could have it down to about an hour, and a good one could do it in less.

That being said, why would anyone bother doing AC anymore when you can do something like CoF P1 and P2 in 20 minutes each, even if you completely suck? CoF was already easier than AC. These changes are legitimately confusing, and I think they were very bad decisions on ANet’s part. Not everyone always feels like spending longer forming a group than actually doing something with one.

The new AC is wayy to hard, I had a full group of level 80’s, besides me I’m only level 40, and we first almost couldn’t pass the first spider boss because of the poisons, then when we got the the part were you need to protect Hodgins we easily spent an hour wiping on that part because of the knockdowns and Hodgins is now impossible to protect.

Oglaf.1074

You guys balanced the earliest lvl 35 dungeon for lvl 80 characters….

Exactly this! I have no problem with making challenging content, but this is the first dungeon new players get to do. If you compare this to a (less than10 min) CoF run it is far too hard.

Today was the first time I had someone ask me if other dungeons are this hard as well, cause they don’t think they want to run dungeons anymore if they are.

I do not see how a random lvl 35 pug will learn anything other than that dungeons are not fun and make you die a lot.

Just tried running AC with some lowbie players, and I must say it is very different.

However different =/= better. The level 40 was eager to learn and did an admirable job. We wiped a couple times at the spider queen, but eventually overcame. Our excitement was short lived though, because as soon as it came time to protect Hodgins the group fell apart. Constant knockdown and cripple prevented the group from victory. I had even equipped all stunbreak utilities, and the benefit was marginal at best.

If you were looking for a way to split groups without players hating each other, you certainly got it here. We left each other with the common consensus we had been F’d by the devs.

Major downer that you tuned the intro dungeon to require higher coordination and gear than even FOTM. All I ever wanted was a fun dungeon and a few tokens.

Kiraki.9761:

I do not see how a random lvl 35 pug will learn anything other than that dungeons are not fun and make you die a lot.

Hammer→Nail head. You got it spot on. Almost all the people saying “its easy” have plenty of experience playing GW2 and generally have plenty of time spent doing AC.
Folks, its not that we dont want hard dungeons in point of fact I want harder ones myself. The point however is that AC is the first dungeon anyone who plays GW2 gets access to at level 30/35. “Old” AC was a gentle way of showing players “mechanics” for encounters, teaching them to avoid traps, explaining simple tactics for each class and generally, what americans would call a “kindergarden” dungeon.

Sure it had a few quirks and issues, but once you explained those to the team they understood and could either go with it or work around it. The bugs were known, we could avoid them and show others how to do likewise or how to resolve it (like the bug in P1 mounds where you get spit out the far right doorway thats locked).

Now all new players get is frustration, anger and are turned off dungeons completely unless they are informed they are not all like this. It doesnt matter if someone with alts and weeks/months of playtime thinks its easy, sorry but your opinion on AC is skewed by the fact you have alts, and weeks/months of experience in combating various foes and learning your class and various roles on a team.

New players have jack; no alts, no gear, no experience in team play or in dungeon encounters, no money, nada. They need somewhere to be blooded or broken in to the way the dungeons are structured, how to use the skills they have for best effect, what skills they should focus on for the style they like, etc etc.

I am a relatively new player. While I have over 5 years of play at GW under my belt, GW2 is a new challenge with new mechanics. I have had the game a little over a month and gamed hard to get some characters that I like playing leveled and geared. While Im not really a min/max’er, I do like being able to be useful in my role and that requires time, effort, and gear.

Old AC I “got” in a few runs of each path, it quickly grew on me as a fun place to group with other new players to take on a challenge. As I said I many times took new guildies through AC as a sort of “tour guide” showing them tips, tricks and tactics in the dungeon.

Now I really, REALLY do not want to bother as there is simply to much going on now that new players wont understand or understand and think its simply crap.

As I said tone down the creature damage a fraction, give “HINTS!” to players on the first run through, and get rid of idiotic stunlock BS (which is the WORST kind of “mechanic” ever created) and you have yourself what would be a nice dungeon for beginners. Exactly what AC should be as a 35+ dungeon.

Anet – If a group of new sub 50 players join up to do a dungeon run of AC, it should be doable for them even if they are a group of unco-ordinated “headless chicken” running around like buffoons. Why? Because they have as much right to enjoy themselves playing the game as anyone else. Tailoring it to “savvy” gamers with alts and gear out the wazzoo is moronic and defeats the purpose it being labled “35+”, when what it really means is “experience gamers only”.

lol epic fail.
is this the way you treat new players ?
Although i havent seen that many lately, its a ***35*** dungeon.
poor sobs must think arah is so beyond wildest imagination.

anahata.3498:

lol epic fail.
is this the way you treat new players ?
Although i havent seen that many lately, its a ***35*** dungeon.
poor sobs must think arah is so beyond wildest imagination.

Arah IS beyond their wildest imagination if they fail AC…

DeathPanel.8362:

anahata.3498:

lol epic fail.
is this the way you treat new players ?
Although i havent seen that many lately, its a ***35*** dungeon.
poor sobs must think arah is so beyond wildest imagination.

Arah IS beyond their wildest imagination if they fail AC…

I doubt that, especially as last night I did Arah exp1 for the very first time. Had very little trouble with it at all. Frankly it was a fair bit easier than I expect. I did have a group who were seasoned but only 2 members who had actually done Arah previously. I did die, but only a few times and only as we were a little unfocused at the start and I made a mistake. After that it was plain sailing, and lupi was a walkover.

And yet I still think the new AC is pretty crappy.

I don’t understand why they would change AC to this ridiculous level now. I was under the impression that AC was an introductory dungeon. I found it very difficult but ultimately enjoyable when I was leveling up my first character around lvl 35, increasing the difficulty was unnecessary on this dungeon, and frankly doesn’t make any sense when there are already many other dungeon options for higher leveled characters.

We did each path yesterday and yeah, well, it was indeed challenging.

Ghost Eater was extremely buggy and not fun.
We were a group of 4 lvl 80s and one lvl 37.
Can’t imagine how to do that if we had been all around lvl 35. O.o
Would it scale down a lot or did we experience the lvl 35 hardness? (Thinking of: Does the game recognize that we are down leveled 80s in exotic gear and therefore is a little bit harder than for normal lvl 35 players..)

We will not do that path again.

The other two were okay, but again it’s questionable if reasonable for lvl 35s group…..

i just did AC path 1 and 2 i really hate what you did to the last boss … in path 1 end boss we had like 20 silvers spawn with all them knocking me around like a pin ball machine how lame is that….
in path 2 final boss wow trying to get the oozz in the rings is broken with the boss frozen off to the side we could not pull the ooozz into the rings because the explode on the ground … i think you all screwed up this AC im sorry i dont like your changes … try again and do it soon .. it was fun now its NOT !!

This dungeon is mechanics more than anything. People are putting way too much importance on level and numbers, especially when level 80s get scaled down into the ground. If you learn the mechanics this dungeon is not difficult.

Even if we do not focus on level number I still think it is not an appropriate introduction for dungeon newcomers. For example compared to cof path 1 it’s too difficult.

Maybe a level 35 dungeon is not supposed to introduce them into explorable dungeons (maybe a level 75 is^^) ? Don’t know, but that’s how it feels..

Story modes are the introductory dungeons for new players. The only reason people have to do the explore modes is to get tokens needed for level 80 gear.

When they fix the massive lag when there are many gravelings, I’ll run it with my 35 and and 4 other 35s. It’s all about the skill/strategy guys, I haven’t been killed once after the initial run through when the update hit. We’ll all get used to it. I ran through it with 3 pug lvl 50, 76, 49 yesterday. I took the time to type out how the fights work, and we only wiped once on Rumblus. It’s alright.

And remember, the DEVs are supposedly doing this to all dungeons, so hopefully dungeons will get a lot harder.

Hmm, I thought we were doing explorable dungeons for fun. ^^

Dog.1472:

Story modes are the introductory dungeons for new players. The only reason people have to do the explore modes is to get tokens needed for level 80 gear.

And fun.

15chars.

To all the devs of Guild Wars 2:
AC was meant to be the first dungeon for a player to attempt was it not? That’s why its the first dungeon you can do. Story mode is a good way to get your feet wet for dungeons. But when the player reaches level 35 and wants to do Explorable mode, there is NO WAY that can be done by 5 level 35’s. Most people probably think “why would 5 level 35’s do AC exp?” Thats the problem, it shouldn’t be so hard that people dont get accepted into PUG groups just because of their level. A level 35 dungeon should be just that: a level 35 dungeon. I understand the reward tokens for the dungeon are for level 80’s, however, again, the dungeon is for level 35’s. Unless it says recommended level 80, i will assume 5 level 35’s can do this.

Please dev’s, make a video of 5 arena net staff members doing AC on level 35 characters and record the footage. Until people see that you have done it, they will generally assume this change to AC was a huge mistake and now impossible to new players. REMEMBER: this is a level 35 dungeon, there shouldn’t be a problem with 5 level 35 characters who have some experience with dungeons to do this.

Ok, look. What people here are forgetting is that this is a LEVEL 35 DUNGEON. If you are here saying that you have run this with your guildies and that this dungeon is fine, kudos to you. But unfortunately it isn’t fine. This is suppose to be a dungeon for beginners, not a promissory note to the impending failures you are likely to have due to impossible boss battles and trash mobs from a new char point of view. I would just like everyone to keep in mind that not everyone here is an alt, and not everyone can afford to get the best gear, even if it is only level 35, and that not everyone here can enlist help from level 80 spec’d out friends.

This is level 35. This is suppose to be easy- well easier.

Yeah, what I don’t understand is: Why make these explorable dungeons paths accessible for Lvl 35 (45, 55,..) if it’s mainly meant and designed for grinding tokens for the lvl 80 armor. ^^

I think it’s a significant improvement over old AC for both experienced and inexperienced players. Yes the dungeon is harder, yes it requires coordination, and yes it requires wiping a few times to learn the mechanics. These encourage you to work as a team, the importance of ressing downed teammates, the importance of adjusting weapons/utility skills for different areas, importance of dodging and being aware of your surroundings.

Old Ascalon taught awful habits for an introductory dungeon. It taught you that you could stand in read circles of death and face tank bosses (Spider Queen), it encouraged you to go pure dps builds for faster clears, it taught you that boss fights were nothing but a tank n’ spank with an occasional dodge on a blatantly obvious one-hit wonder (Howling King/Rumblus/Kholer), it taught you that you don’t need to deal with adds at all (Ghost Eater/Kholer), and for the most part it didn’t teach any new or useful mechanics to the player that you couldn’t learn in the over world soloing veterans/champions. But it was easy to farm for pugs.

Honestly I hope other dungeons get revamped and are given mechanics that build on things that previous dungeons taught. And the mechanics in this dungeon aren’t that complicated once you stop and read the abilities that the mob has. A baptism of fire is a very good introduction to dungeons if you plan on people taking them as being challenging content.

Honestly … if you’re a brand new player and you want to push to do “end game” (scaled dungeon story/explorer) as soon as you can, I would expect you to make a point to not only learn how to use your skills, but also look online to figure out how to participate in the content. And I would also expect you to invest in having the proper equipment for the situation.

I’ve got nothing against people wanting to do things as soon as possible, I just don’t expect content should be “walk up and face roll it without needing to study, prepare or come properly equipped”.

Join a guild, level up, get some equipment, read about what you want to do before you just jump in.

i have been playing guild wars 2 since the game came out, i love challenging dungeons but there is a happy medium. i mean its a dungeon for low levels and in my opinion they over did it. yes it was to easy for lvl 80s but now its almost impossible for a lvl 35 to get through the run. i personally think they should take it couple steps back and if you are 80 and want more challenges well there are higher dungeons such as arah etc. i dont think they should have ruined the fun out of the mission for low levels.

wait hold the press
i have the answer make AC only accessable to level 35-40 then no level 80s can go inside and every one will be happy wheeeee

IamDuddits.1692:

I think it’s a significant improvement over old AC for both experienced and inexperienced players. Yes the dungeon is harder, yes it requires coordination, and yes it requires wiping a few times to learn the mechanics. These encourage you to work as a team, the importance of ressing downed teammates, the importance of adjusting weapons/utility skills for different areas, importance of dodging and being aware of your surroundings.

This cannot be said enough. The GW2 community needs to learn to play as a team rather than doing whatever.

For example, I ran AC on my Guardian right after the patch with a pug. Shortly into path 1 right before the part with Hodgins, I asked if the Ele in the group could drop a Fiery Greatsword for me to use on the burrows. (This works much, much faster than the Ice Bow if you know how to use it) She responded with, “I’ll do what I want” and immediately started the event only using an Ice Bow and died shortly in. If she had instead bothered to listen to why I wanted the Fiery Greatsword instead of the Ice Bow, the event would have been over in seconds, but Hodgins ended up dying because I was the only one left to destroy the burrows and I couldn’t protect him.

This is a perfect example of how poor the teamwork is in GW2. We need dungeons with harder mechanics so that people learn to play with one another rather than “doing what I want”.

shonn.5037:

wait hold the press
i have the answer make AC only accessable to level 35-40 then no level 80s can go inside and every one will be happy wheeeee

So only 5-6 runs @ Level 35 and the dungeon is no longer accessible.
Perfectly thought out…

Agree with IamDuddits and Dog. People are so used to not thinking during the spider queen/howler/rumblus that they cannt adjust to change. These new paths are a representation of what every GW2 dungeon should be like, and I hope the devs do not give in to the massive uproar.

Teleniel.1809:

Honestly … if you’re a brand new player and you want to push to do “end game” (scaled dungeon story/explorer) as soon as you can, I would expect you to make a point to not only learn how to use your skills, but also look online to figure out how to participate in the content. And I would also expect you to invest in having the proper equipment for the situation.

I’ve got nothing against people wanting to do things as soon as possible, I just don’t expect content should be “walk up and face roll it without needing to study, prepare or come properly equipped”.

Join a guild, level up, get some equipment, read about what you want to do before you just jump in.

Well put.

To me the whole point of dungeons is the challenge of completing the dungeon and not just the gear you get at the end. The armor isn’t meant to be a tread mill that you work toward for slightly bigger numbers, it’s meant to be a trophy to show off. There is a reason why, statwise, exotics you get from dungeon tokens are identical to the ones you get from crafting and drops. If you find a dungeon too hard then you have plenty of options to get exotics.

Edit: And just to elaborate the point I was making is that a lot of people seem to think AC is suppose to be an easy mode farm fest to get better gear for running other dungeons. In reality dungeons should be a sign of prestige for defeating challenging obstacles rather than a place for putting in a weeks worth of runs and getting your reward at the end.

i personally think dungeons are fun but they shouldnt be as hard as what ac is, i mean the rest of the dungeons arent as hard as the new stuff in ac. ac should be a beginners dungeons since it is the last one

dennie.9237:

So, guys, anyone completed AC with group of 35 lvls?

I wish I had a 35 to try, sadly I am out of character slots and am budgeted from buying a new slot just yet, I do have an available 44 ranger and am willing to try him though will admit his lack of stability will be scary. I have completed path 1 with a full group well under 80, the closest was 75, my ele was 60, the lowest in the group was in the area of 45ish. I do not see why a group of 35’s couldn’t do it with the right comp and utilities, and people should be able to get the right utilities by this point if they pick and chose carefully. There are new mechanics to learn for all, but new level 35s had to learn the old mechanics before, and coming from someone who has given 2-3 hours of time to newbs in AC multiple times, I can tell you that they had problems comprehending even when everything was explained in detail with the old stuff. Some bugs and lag issues are causing more problems than the mechanics right now for many. The one thing that does bother me about the revamped instance is that not all professions have a stability utility, and this has lead to me playing my 80 guardian more often than the characters I want to level because of the fact that he has 2 stability moves that effect allies as well, so I am trying to help out where some professions lack. I am running with Stand Your Ground, Hallowed Ground, and Purging Flames (to remove conditions for all in the ring).

Teleniel.1809:

Honestly … if you’re a brand new player and you want to push to do “end game” (scaled dungeon story/explorer) as soon as you can, I would expect you to make a point to not only learn how to use your skills, but also look online to figure out how to participate in the content. And I would also expect you to invest in having the proper equipment for the situation.

I’ve got nothing against people wanting to do things as soon as possible, I just don’t expect content should be “walk up and face roll it without needing to study, prepare or come properly equipped”.

Join a guild, level up, get some equipment, read about what you want to do before you just jump in.

Where does it say that AC is “end game content”? You get a message at 30/35 to tell you its opened to you. This is what people just dont get. It is most certainly not end game content, its a lvl 35+ dungeon.

If you were talking about Arah and making the same point I would concur with you 100%. However its AC, and it is not end-game content, its an early game intro to dungeons.

Let me repeat that again, because it seems like people keep making the same mistake;
AC is not end-game content.

As to a further point made earlier about players not acting as a team; I currently have an ele @45 who was playing AC pre-patch and having fun doing so. Being new to the ele class and wanting to “tune up” my casting skills so that switching became normal I played it a lot with icebow and FGS so that on any mounds the team has the firepower to take them out fast. My play came from using them when needed and backing up the team with AoE fire damage and a bit of water healing. Things worked great, I made friends easily. Hell that ele did AC explore mode path 1 at level 33.

LVL 33! Because I knew the mechanics, I had the skill, and I geared my char I was able to pull my weight in the team and not get spanked every 2 seconds by the mobs and bosses. I had FUN! right up to lvl 45 and the patch hitting.

Same ele, better geared, higher level, with a competant player at the controls (me) with 2 condition removals and a stun breaker utility skills; Post patch = wipe, wipe and wipe again. Not even fun, never mind FUN!

The difficulty has been skewed to far towards experienced and hardened players. Do that for Arah or CoF but doing it in AC is a a terrible idea.

The devs need to add an 80 exclusive mode for people who want more challenge, rather than making a level 35 dungeon only cater to 80s. I personally am a casual player who can’t do well in these dungeons if they are very hard, so I can’t complete my monthlies this way, hoping to find an alternative later before I can’t finish them at all.