Guild Wars 2

Naracion.6597:

It is though. If you want the gear you need to do fractals.

They are fixing this…. tomorrow.

Also, if you want the gear you don’t need to do Fractals, you are missinformed, Fractals don’t drop Exotic gear you need, that’s what you get from Crafting/Dungeons/Karma whatever. Fractals gear are some rings that give a negligible boost, I don’t understand how just getting some rings (that offer few stat boosts) is enough to justify running Fractals all the time.

I have exotic gear….getting ascended was just a goal for me but your right….I wasn’t able to justify running fractals all the time which is why I said I stopped doing it.

I thought from the title this thread would be about my girlfriend’s mother, or the hyper-partisan GOP government shutdown threats, but instead I got an even dryer topic.

Reacting to mods in the open forum is against forum rules, I believe.

Utomneian.9013:

i don’t see the need to grind in GW2, even though it’s ideal to get to max level so that you are not an ankle biter in WvW,

Best part of this whole thread. Gave me quite the chuckle. I’d also like to point out that if you get enough ankle biters together, they’ll gnaw right through you. A bunch from my guild all hopped into WvW with <lv10 toons, and it was hilarious.

And to be on topic, GW2 is a relatively grind free game in the sense that the Quote from Colin describes it.

My 2 cents on Legendaries, and similarly valued items, which are the vast majority of Grind in GW2…

They HAVE to be hard to obtain. Defining hard as time consuming.

They can’t be acquired through Skill because every player who isn’t skilled enough will NEVER get a Legendary. Skill doesn’t simply come, as money does. To put it into prospective, making it hard enough that only 1% of the players could do it would be far too easy. I’m imagining seeing a Legendary on every 100th player, and they don’t seem all that Legendary anymore. Maybe those in the top 5% may be able to become proficient enough to get a Legendary with practice, but to the other 95%, it’s an unobtainable item, regardless of what they do.

I even have a friend with arthritis who plans to get a Legendary. If it was skill based, the goal would be an impossibility. But with money and the “Slow but Steady” approach, she will have it one day.

But with Legendaries requiring gold, every player can look at the price, see how much money they make in a day, increase it in every way possible, and actually see progress, as minute as it is. Gathering gold is possible by EVERY player, so Legendaries are obtainable by EVERY player.

This is of course not factoring in the rabid inflation, which I personally believe will be fixed eventually. As for the DR, I still believe it is a Myth. Maybe it is just because my drops have been pretty good, having got countless rares and 5 Exotics in the last two weeks(3 from player kills).

I do believe, however, that the current rewards for playing in the open world is equivalent to some sparkly dirt. Hopefully, it will be rectified in the coming months.

Dante.1508:

Wasabi Kitty.8247:

You don’t have to grind. Yes you can grind if you want to, but grinding only makes you look prettier. Statwise someone whose been 80 for a week or two will be the same as someone whose been 80 for 3 months and been grinding nonstop. He might be prettier, but his stats are the same.

What do you do in this game that doesn’t require grind? So if its optional point me to a part of the game that doesn’t require grind in some form or another?

please.

All PVP, WvW, Map completion (including all DE’s), Personal Story, jump puzzles, dungeons, Fractals up to at least level 10 (which is enough to have seen and completed each one).

Pretty much everything except crafting (and even then if you collect materials as you’re going you’ll have enough to level a long way before you need to farm or buy them) and getting certain armor and weapon skins. Which is purely asthetic and entirely optional part of playing the game.

Once again what they said about grind before launch was this:
“Here’s what we believe: If someone wants to play for a thousand hours to get an item that is so rare that other players can’t realistically acquire it, that rare item should be differentiated by its visual appearance and rarity alone, not by being more powerful than everything else in the game. Otherwise, your MMO becomes all about grinding to get the best gear. We don’t make grindy games — we leave the grind to other MMOs.”

In my experience that’s held completely true.

Honestly whenever these topics come up I find myself thinking I’m at a big advantage having come from mainly single-player RPGs rather than other MMOs. Because the way I see it playing and completing the game is the goal, getting to the maximum level and getting max stat/cool looking gear is just something that happens along the way, or you can put extra effort into if you want to. And then when you think you’re done with the game you create a new character and do it again a totally different way and get a whole new experience.

Whereas the mentality in MMOs seems to be that the storyline, the quests, the events, all the actual gameplay is just something to get out of the way so you can focus on your gear. It’s no wonder people then feel like there’s nothing to do in a game.

(Alternatively it might be that my other main games at the moment, played on the train to and from work, are Pokemon Pearl and Dragon Quest 9. Try playing those, or pretty much any JRPG for that matter, and come back and tell me, honestly, that you still think GW2 is grindy.)

The intent of this entire thread was to discuss the grind that is perceived in this game, weather true or not.

Dradiin.8935:

The intent of this entire thread was to discuss the grind that is perceived in this game, weather true or not.

Surely discussing whether it’s true or not is an important part of that?

There’s not much constructive discussion in saying “If there was a lot of grind in this game I imagine it would work like this and I imagine it would be bad for these reasons”.

The fact that some people disagree that there is grind to be discussed is an important factor. We could go on to discuss why people have these different perceptions, which ones are accurate and what can be done to make everyone happier, but first we’re got to have a clear idea of what it is we’re actually talking about.

<— 5 lvl 80s without grinding.
There is no required grind in GW2.

Please learn the basics of the game.

Red Falcon.8257:

<— 5 lvl 80s without grinding.
There is no required grind in GW2.

Please learn the basics of the game.

Yes but you don’t have 5 Legendaries (one for each) that’s what people want and call the game “grindy”

You are all still operating under the false premise that +1 stat is optional.

It is not. If you don’t understand why, then we can’t truly discuss the grind in GW2.

Sky.9347:

You are all still operating under the false premise that +1 stat is optional.

It is not. If you don’t understand why, then we can’t truly discuss the grind in GW2.

You can get the max stats without grinding. Tell me which +1 in a stat requires a grind?

maddoctor.2738:

Sky.9347:

You are all still operating under the false premise that +1 stat is optional.

It is not. If you don’t understand why, then we can’t truly discuss the grind in GW2.

You can get the max stats without grinding. Tell me which +1 in a stat requires a grind?

Oh, were there changes to Ascended Gear?
Did Legendary Weapons go back to being equivalent to Exotic? (For the Future, as is currently planned)

I’ve not paid much attention for a while so it is entirely possible I missed some major change.

killcannon.2576:

Conncept.7638:

Bullshizle.2675:

Oh come on guys,..

Be a bit realistic please, if you’d only had a clue how much time it costs to add new content, look at what they released the past couple of months.

They have to have some things in place to keep players busy, still they do not force you to do it.

They’re trying to make sufficient money between expansions by the gem-store alone. To do that, people have to stay and keep playing. For people to stay, they have to have things to do and goals to pursue in the game that don’t run away faster than you can pursue them, or require you to abandon all real-life pursuits to inhumanely time-consuming grind.

Either they fix this, or this game never reaches its potential, at some point the Nexon investors will push their way in because they’re not making enough money, and everything will go to hell from there.

Man, what are you babbling about? What do you think people are buying in the gem store that is the root of all this evil? Explain yourself man.

Babbling? I think you may need to have your reading comprehension tested.

This problem is I don’t think anybody is buying anything from the gemstore except gem>gold conversion. Which is overloading the economy with currency, driving up inflation, preventing casual players that aren’t interested in buying gems>gold or doing an unhealthy amount of grinding from having anything at all to pursue beyond the core story.

Sky.9347:

Oh, were there changes to Ascended Gear?
Did Legendary Weapons go back to being equivalent to Exotic? (For the Future, as is currently planned)
I’ve not paid much attention for a while so it is entirely possible I missed some major change.

Not that I know off, Ascended Rings are as easy as always, same for infusing them, no grind required for those. Ascended backpieces are also available through Fractals for a low price, if you are ever planning on going high in Fractals you will get both rings and a backpiece while “leveling”, that’s not grinding.

Also, the laurels will be used to get Ascended Gear, now if that is going to be grindy depends on how many will be needed for a piece. Amulets will also become available tomorrow.

You still need 300 Ectoplasms and 250 of a particular tier 6 mat for the Ascended (Infused) Backpieces but those are only for the graphics/skin so they enter the category of “cosmetics”, you can get Ascended Backpiece from Fractals just by doing Fractals and getting to higher levels.

You probably missed how it works, not the change.

maddoctor.2738:

Sky.9347:

Oh, were there changes to Ascended Gear?
Did Legendary Weapons go back to being equivalent to Exotic? (For the Future, as is currently planned)
I’ve not paid much attention for a while so it is entirely possible I missed some major change.

Not that I know off, Ascended Rings are as easy as always, same for infusing them, no grind required for those. Ascended backpieces are also available through Fractals for a low price, if you are ever planning on going high in Fractals you will get both rings and a backpiece while “leveling”, that’s not grinding.

Also, the laurels will be used to get Ascended Gear, now if that is going to be grindy depends on how many will be needed for a piece. Amulets will also become available tomorrow.

You still need 300 Ectoplasms and 250 of a particular tier 6 mat for the Ascended (Infused) Backpieces but those are only for the graphics/skin so they enter the category of “cosmetics”, you can get Ascended Backpiece from Fractals just by doing Fractals and getting to higher levels.

You probably missed how it works, not the change.

No, I know how it works.

I just hate dungeons. I’m not making a judgement of dungeons or people who like them, but I do not.

So here we will delve into the subjective nature of the definition of “grind”, but I am basing it on the things ANet said to me before I purchased this game.

Doing a bunch of endless dungeons for +1 stat gear is a massive, dull grind.

The thing is, in my opinion, ANet could have added thousands of cosmetic skins with hundreds of hours of grind needed for each one. Hell, they could have had skin sets that transform your character into a lich or something (sort of like Trang’Ouls set in Diablo 2). Through all of that I would have been the first person to stand up and say “this is NOT a grind, because it is ENTIRELY optional”.

The moment they stuck +1 stat behind X hours & RNG, GW2 became a grinder.

They even admitted it! They said (in so many words) that they needed something to keep people logging in everyday.

Their solution was a grind that is required. Again, I use required because I believe ANY + to stats is required, not optional.

“You can still play in Exotics” – Yes, for now you can. No, that doesn’t matter. Many posts and youtube videos explain that better than I ever could.

Sky.9347:

Doing a bunch of endless dungeons for +1 stat gear is a massive, dull grind.

I can’t get this… the rings (and new amulets) will be available with Laurels outside of Fractals. The Laurel’s are rewarded from Daily/Monthly achievements, which basically “require” the player to just play the game. I can’t see how a daily can be grindy, for one it doesn’t even take enough time to be considered grindy, so the best gear in the game will be available without any grinding for everyone.

All while, those who are playign the dungeon will also get their gear without grinding, unless they just farm a certain level of fractals instead of moving forward. I just can’t see the grind for that +1 you mention.

If you are having fun, its not a grind. If, however, you turn it into a job…then its a grind.

Its a mindset. And its your responsibility to to recognize how its affecting you and adjust your gameplay or attitude. Or not.

All any game can do is provide a framework for enjoyment. Its not Anet’s faut that you play the way you do.

maddoctor.2738:

Sky.9347:

Doing a bunch of endless dungeons for +1 stat gear is a massive, dull grind.

I can’t get this… the rings (and new amulets) will be available with Laurels outside of Fractals. The Laurel’s are rewarded from Daily/Monthly achievements, which basically “require” the player to just play the game. I can’t see how a daily can be grindy, for one it doesn’t even take enough time to be considered grindy, so the best gear in the game will be available without any grinding for everyone.

All while, those who are playign the dungeon will also get their gear without grinding, unless they just farm a certain level of fractals instead of moving forward. I just can’t see the grind for that +1 you mention.

Well, if you’re saying a future update will remove the grind for Ascended… my response would be – okay, we’ll just have to wait and see.

But to the second post… that’s my point. I don’t do dungeons. I don’t WANT to do dungeons. Forcing me to do them in order to stay on par with others is a grind.

Raf.1078:

If you are having fun, its not a grind. If, however, you turn it into a job…then its a grind.

Its a mindset. And its your responsibility to to recognize how its affecting you and adjust your gameplay or attitude. Or not.

All any game can do is provide a framework for enjoyment. Its not Anet’s faut that you play the way you do.

Until Lost Shores, they held true to their pre-release promise that I could play GW2 the way I wanted to, now I have to play it they say I should.

You see, grind in most people’s minds (like you mentioned up there) is doing stuff they don’t want to do, in order to do the stuff they do.

“preparing to have fun, rather than having fun”

Sky.9347:

Well, if you’re saying a future update will remove the grind for Ascended… my response would be – okay, we’ll just have to wait and see.

The update tomorrow will allow everyone to get Ascended quality Rings and Amulets by doing Daily/Monthly achievements and collecting a new currency called Laurels. So no more Fractals will be “required” to get the top gear. Now it remains to be seen how many Laurels will be needed to get one piece, and if Anet learned their lesson (adding the same gear on both Fractals and Laurels instead of offering different stats like what happened with dungeons and crafting)
In less than a day we will know.

Red Falcon.8257:

<— 5 lvl 80s without grinding.
There is no required grind in GW2.

Please learn the basics of the game.

Yes let’s look at it. Did you grind out the exploration of every zone? Or grind out the DE’s in every zone including those on a timer? Or how about grinding the dungeons to get drops since they don’t fall off anything open world? See where I’m going here?

Compared to old school WoW, Guild Wars 2 has barely any grind at all. So far it feels like half my levels have come from accidentally stumbling into something at the last moment, like someone else’s skill point challenge: bamf, free skill point and here’s some xp too. Or being there as an escort mission completes. Or killing that last ooze.

GW2 practically throws levels at you.

If you’ve not experienced the frustration of going into a high level raid looking for one item, do that every night for two weeks, only to have some jackkitten need on it the one time it drops and they win… you don’t know what grind is.

If all you have to do is grind a bit for a legendary… :P

Gw2 requires less grind than any other MMO I’ve ever played.

“You are all still operating under the false premise that +1 stat is optional.”

When everything in the game is achievable without that +1, it really is optional.

VOLKON.1290:

No mandatory grind. There’s the difference. You don’t need to do any mandatory grind to get your 80 fully viable in any situation, which a set of exotics is more than enough for. Hell, you can just hit the trading post and fully gear up in a matter of minutes if you wish.

Legendaries, etc… that’s optional grind. Grind you choose to do because of the shiny you’ll get. Totally different from the mandatory grind of treadmill style games where it’s a power chase into infinity and beyond.

I agree with your distinctions about grinding, mandatory and non-mandatory, as they are also my distinctions around grinding. You do realize that they added vertical progression with the 11/15/2011 patch right? Ascended gear was a mystery to many of us with its higher power level, but they confirmed in the AMA that what we would have is vertical progression. By your definition we now have a non-mandatory, power chase to infinity and beyond.

Awesome.6120:

Gw2 requires less grind than any other MMO I’ve ever played.

“You are all still operating under the false premise that +1 stat is optional.”

When everything in the game is achievable without that +1, it really is optional.

The problem is that vertical progression “progresses” by periodically increasing the power level of the game. It can be described by an integer series:

1, 2, 3, 4, 5,…n

where each integer represents a new tier of gear with a corresponding higher power level than the one that proceeded it. It doesn’t stop at +1, it “progresses” to +2, then +3, and it doesn’t stop. Consider the two words: vertical, the power level increases, progression: it continually increases.

A person justifying vertical progression by stating that +1 power increase is insignificant doesn’t understand the concept. The concept is that, eventually, the power level will increase to a level where it’s grind the new tier or be unable to play the game. That’s simply what vertical progression is by definition.

That is a slippery slope argument. The fact is right now you don’t need that +1. Will you need a +10 in five years to do a newly updated AC? We have no idea but saying that is definitely what will happen is disingenuous.

Awesome.6120:

That is a slippery slope argument. The fact is right now you don’t need that +1. Will you need a +10 in five years to do a newly updated AC? We have no idea but saying that is definitely what will happen is disingenuous.

No it’s not. They’ve said vertical progression is here to stay.

Content WILL become obsolete. Gear WILL become more powerful.

Even if it is theoretically possible to struggle through content with Exotic gear for years to come… that doesn’t mean the community will tolerate your choice to ignore the treadmill.

The community barely tolerates your choice to play certain classes. Basing anything on that is ridiculous.

Awesome.6120:

The community barely tolerates your choice to play certain classes. Basing anything on that is ridiculous.

But it’s not ridiculous.

This is an MMO, which everyone likes to say when defending the “fact” that VP is necessary.

If you want to play with other people, you’re going to need to be competitive. When certain classes aren’t recognized by the community as valid or viable, they get adjusted by the developers. In fact, many developers use that as a primary metric when deciding which classes need adjustments.

Stop blaming player attitude for a lack of content which ends up leaving the grind centered remaining options as one of the few remaining endeavors. It’s like saying the shipwrecked crew of a ship didn’t HAVE to drink their own urine, they could have like, chose not to and died.
If the answer is to play a different game SOMETHING IS NOT RIGHT, that CANNOT be a good design model EVER, you can approach the flaws with a weird sense of hyper casual player themed logic, and tell yourself that it’s a healthy new direction, but that won’t make it any less rubbish.

Don’t get me wrong, the sky isn’t falling in GW2 but it most certainly is boring us to tears, and a lot of players apparently aren’t feeling that they’re being listened to.
GW2 as I stated before, is an AMAZING IDEA, which just wasn’t made to it’s own specifications.

Sky.9347:

Awesome.6120:

The community barely tolerates your choice to play certain classes. Basing anything on that is ridiculous.

But it’s not ridiculous.

This is an MMO, which everyone likes to say when defending the “fact” that VP is necessary.

If you want to play with other people, you’re going to need to be competitive. When certain classes aren’t recognized by the community as valid or viable, they get adjusted by the developers. In fact, many developers use that as a primary metric when deciding which classes need adjustments.

If this was truly the case, can you please explain Engineers then ?

killcannon.2576:

I am curious why you want that particular mat, Is it just to have…like just because it’s there or what? You can hit 400 in JC without them at all.

I have never stated that crafting in general is a grind. Is it particularly difficult to reach 400 on any discipline? No, it’s not. It’s a relatively fast, simple, and, in my opinion, enjoyable process. It’s why I have level 400 crafting in every discipline right now. I enjoy it.

Something else I also enjoy is discovering recipes. After all, I’ve been advised repeatedly to “just play the game the way I want to” and “have fun.” Discovering recipes is one way I “have fun.” However, when it comes to the passion flower line of jewelry, my “having fun” in the game has collided with a need to farm/grind if I want to “play the game the way I want to” and “have fun.” That’s simply my point.

Could I just forget the whole thing and throw one of the ways I enjoy the game most out the proverbial window? Sure. Is anyone “forcing” me to discover all my recipes? Nope. Am I asking for the grind to be removed? Nah, though it wouldn’t break my heart any if they made the drop rate on flowers slightly higher.

The point is, in the course of “playing GW2 the way I want to” and “having fun” I have encountered what I consider a grind. I just disagree with the “there is no grind in GW2” crowd, which was my original point in bringing up the flowers in the first place.

Dradiin.8935:

Sky.9347:

Awesome.6120:

The community barely tolerates your choice to play certain classes. Basing anything on that is ridiculous.

But it’s not ridiculous.

This is an MMO, which everyone likes to say when defending the “fact” that VP is necessary.

If you want to play with other people, you’re going to need to be competitive. When certain classes aren’t recognized by the community as valid or viable, they get adjusted by the developers. In fact, many developers use that as a primary metric when deciding which classes need adjustments.

If this was truly the case, can you please explain Engineers then ?

Can I? Nope.

I can’t explain a LOT of things ANet is doing lately.

But I can explain this: when the community thinks Engineers aren’t viable, and doesn’t want to take them to the competitive aspects of the game… people who mainly play Engineers will begin to leave the game.

Just look at the forums.

You can’t deny that community consensus is a huge part of the game balance.

Ignoring that consensus will isolate players. Most developers will measure “balance” by participation rates. They want all classes (and maybe all specs?) to have roughly equal participation. When that doesn’t happen, they buff or nerf stuff to bring things in line.

If the community decides it won’t bring non-max stat players to new content (especially if they feel competitive pressure), then players will either be forced to attain that gear OR not participate.

I’m frankly surprised this has to be explained. Hell, go look at some of ANets very own writing from before release and they explain this stuff.

Sky.9347:

Celtic Lady.3729:

emikochan.8504:

I’m still not seeing any grind, I have everything I want from just playing normally and having fun.

Maybe the complainers are just impatient.

It’s a simple concept, really. I’m a different person than you. With me so far? Therefore, my experiences are likely to be different from yours. And other players’ experiences are different from mine. Therefore, while you may not be experiencing grind in your play, others like me are. We’re not impatient. It’s a matter that some of what we enjoy in the game requires farming and/or grind at times.

Again, your experiences are not the entire sum of the whole world. It is therefore illogical to assume that since one person (you) are not experiencing grind, all the rest of the thousands of players are also not.

I love this response. Well said.

In my experience, GW2 has some of the worst grind of any modern western MMO. (Post-Ascended)

Where did I imply I spoke for everyone?

Also the forums are a tiny minority of the game’s players, so they do not reflect the general population’s opinions.

So far, 10 daily tokens (pristine) for rings is a very tiny time investment for top tier items in comparison to other MMOs.

If you find you are in a rush to get a legendary or simply must have your fractal backpack glowy then you will find the game can feel grindy.

Unfortunately the technology doesn’t yet exist to make endlessly new content for each and every hour of play on the way to a legendary. You will be able to play content faster than people can make it if you are pushing hard. But you’ll find if you relax and just have fun on your way to a there, then GW2 feels like it has a ton of content that is not grindy.

All the same these high end goals are required to be in existence for people to look forward to.

The technology exists, it’s called “make a sandbox game”. But people don’t like to think for themselves :p

Marxo.3829:

So far, 10 daily tokens (pristine) for rings is a very tiny time investment for top tier items in comparison to other MMOs.

If you find you are in a rush to get a legendary or simply must have your fractal backpack glowy then you will find the game can feel grindy.

Unfortunately the technology doesn’t yet exist to make endlessly new content for each and every hour of play on the way to a legendary. But you’ll find if you relax and just have fun on your way to a there, then GW2 feels like it has a ton of content that is not grindy.

All the same these high end goals are required to be in existence for people to look forward to.

Don’t take offense, but I find the best way of describing your post as a vague “truth” followed by a “subjective opinion”

No we don’t have the technology for endless content in the manner I’m going to have to ASSUME you mean which is slightly unrealistic. But that doesn’t mean that the differing opinions on the item acquisition is less valid, if that makes sense?

Farming is a choice.. because the option is there doesn’t make it necessary.

emikochan.8504:

I’m still not seeing any grind, I have everything I want from just playing normally and having fun.

The implication here is that because YOU personally don’t see any grind and have everything you want from casual playing, then no grind must therefore exist within the game. Perhaps you didn’t mean to imply that, but that implication was there for me. My point being, one player can feel no grind in a game while another does feel one. Both points of view are valid.

Qid.1937:

Farming is a choice.. because the option is there doesn’t make it necessary.

What is the other choice?

Real money -> gems → gold?
Find a new game?

Sky.9347:

Qid.1937:

Farming is a choice.. because the option is there doesn’t make it necessary.

What is the other choice?

Real money -> gems -> gold?
Find a new game?

I’m expecting that last one as an answer to be honest. Either that or “stop working towards a goal and just have fun” etc.

Sky.9347:

Qid.1937:

Farming is a choice.. because the option is there doesn’t make it necessary.

What is the other choice?

Real money -> gems -> gold?
Find a new game?

What i’m saying is that wheel spinners don’t come stock.

Wasabi Kitty.8247:

Dante.1508:

What do you do in this game that doesn’t require grind? So if its optional point me to a part of the game that doesn’t require grind in some form or another?

please.

Dungeons

Fractals

WvW

PvP

Map completion

Jumping puzzles

Running around the map looking at the scenery

Whatever the hell you want. There is nothing, NOTHING in this game for you to do that requires a grind.

What a riot.

Dungeons and Fractals are both run for the sole purpose of acquiring tokens to trade in for items. That’s a grind.

WvW utilizes a (broken) reward system with the Badges of Honor (better known as Badges of Jumping), a key component in legendary items and for buying any of the best gear. We were originally told that you could level from 1 to 80 and get all the gear you needed in WvW, yet to obtain this max exotic gear through WvW play alone requires 1889 Badges of Honor. That’s a minimum of almost 2k kills,though likely more if you’re unlucky like me (I have under 250 badges despite 1.1k kills to my name). Guess what that is? A grind.

Map completion requires clearing the three WvW maps individually, meaning you’re literally repeating the same map three times. And then if you want legendaries on any other character at some point, you’re going to be redoing every map again. That’s a grind. And “running around to look at the scenery” is precisely what map completion is making you do.

Jumping puzzles reset daily, implying that the devs expected players to run them regularly. And many people do run the Mistwrought chest daily because it’s more efficient for badges than actual WvW combat unless you’ve stumbled upon a guild raid. That’s a grind.

Even PvP is a grind of sorts, in that you’re grinding for Glory. A rank 80 glory vendor demands 7.5 million glory before you can even access his shop. Good luck earning all that without any form of repetition whatsoever!

And when these things are all pointed out, and the blatant repetition of each is laid bare, the white knights promptly go “but all those things you said are optional!”, which is precisely the point that Dante is trying to make. They’re apparently only “optional” when someone points out that they’re meant to be grinded, and yet they’re the only suggestions you have available to you when someone asks for a location in the game with no grind.

Mind, I’m not saying grind is always evil. It can work just fine if it’s tempered properly. The main reason many people in this forum don’t perceive a grind is because they’ve done a halfway decent job balancing the amount of repetition. But it’s clear, given the complaints, that there is still far too much repetition.

Hellkaiser.6025:

I’m expecting that last one as an answer to be honest. Either that or “stop working towards a goal and just have fun” etc.

What if working toward a particular goal IS your definition of having fun? Or it would be if you hadn’t encountered a grind. Sometimes, in the course of having fun in a game, grinds are encountered. When one is, the choices are to give up and find something else to do or work through the grind until you’re on the other side again.

Hellkaiser.6025:

Marxo.3829:

So far, 10 daily tokens (pristine) for rings is a very tiny time investment for top tier items in comparison to other MMOs.

If you find you are in a rush to get a legendary or simply must have your fractal backpack glowy then you will find the game can feel grindy.

Unfortunately the technology doesn’t yet exist to make endlessly new content for each and every hour of play on the way to a legendary. But you’ll find if you relax and just have fun on your way to a there, then GW2 feels like it has a ton of content that is not grindy.

All the same these high end goals are required to be in existence for people to look forward to.

Don’t take offense, but I find the best way of describing your post as a vague “truth” followed by a “subjective opinion”

No we don’t have the technology for endless content in the manner I’m going to have to ASSUME you mean which is slightly unrealistic. But that doesn’t mean that the differing opinions on the item acquisition is less valid, if that makes sense?

Every post in this thread is an opinion. If someone has appropriate alternative acquisition method I have yet to read it. Scavenger hunt is in the works for legendaries so we’ll just have to see how that plays out. Until then, I’m personally pretty satisfied with the content turn out for a FTP game.

As to the player made content suggestion – do you realistically see this game going sandbox? It’s pretty successful being story-based. Also being sandbox certainly does not eliminate grind. EVE online has many people grinding up the level 4 missions for ISK pretty frequently.

critickitten.1498:

WvW utilizes a (broken) reward system with the Badges of Honor (better known as Badges of Jumping), a key component in legendary items and for buying any of the best gear. We were originally told that you could level from 1 to 80 and get all the gear you needed in WvW, yet to obtain this max exotic gear through WvW play alone requires 1889 Badges of Honor. That’s a minimum of almost 2k kills,though likely more if you’re unlucky like me (I have under 250 badges despite 1.1k kills to my name). Guess what that is? A grind.

Aaaand we have someone now complaining that exotic gear is too hard to get.

I have to grind to get my dinner from the kitchen irl. nerf.

Marxo.3829:

critickitten.1498:

WvW utilizes a (broken) reward system with the Badges of Honor (better known as Badges of Jumping), a key component in legendary items and for buying any of the best gear. We were originally told that you could level from 1 to 80 and get all the gear you needed in WvW, yet to obtain this max exotic gear through WvW play alone requires 1889 Badges of Honor. That’s a minimum of almost 2k kills,though likely more if you’re unlucky like me (I have under 250 badges despite 1.1k kills to my name). Guess what that is? A grind.

Aaaand we have someone now complaining that exotic gear is too hard to get.

Exotic WvW gear is ridiculous. AND it’s second rate gear at that.

Have you purchased a WvW Exotic piece of gear?

EVEN WORSE. I have to grind oxygen to stay alive! FOR SHAME.

Sky.9347:

Marxo.3829:

critickitten.1498:

WvW utilizes a (broken) reward system with the Badges of Honor (better known as Badges of Jumping), a key component in legendary items and for buying any of the best gear. We were originally told that you could level from 1 to 80 and get all the gear you needed in WvW, yet to obtain this max exotic gear through WvW play alone requires 1889 Badges of Honor. That’s a minimum of almost 2k kills,though likely more if you’re unlucky like me (I have under 250 badges despite 1.1k kills to my name). Guess what that is? A grind.

Aaaand we have someone now complaining that exotic gear is too hard to get.

Exotic WvW gear is ridiculous. AND it’s second rate gear at that.

Have you purchased a WvW Exotic piece of gear?

I have issues when people use obtuse logic like utterly ignoring the fact that you also get karma, gold and mats for WvWing which should net you whatever exotics you want. Easily too.

There is a valid argument that more stat combinations should be available with badges but that was not his argument.