Guild Wars 2

Marxo.3829:

Sky.9347:

Marxo.3829:

critickitten.1498:

WvW utilizes a (broken) reward system with the Badges of Honor (better known as Badges of Jumping), a key component in legendary items and for buying any of the best gear. We were originally told that you could level from 1 to 80 and get all the gear you needed in WvW, yet to obtain this max exotic gear through WvW play alone requires 1889 Badges of Honor. That’s a minimum of almost 2k kills,though likely more if you’re unlucky like me (I have under 250 badges despite 1.1k kills to my name). Guess what that is? A grind.

Aaaand we have someone now complaining that exotic gear is too hard to get.

Exotic WvW gear is ridiculous. AND it’s second rate gear at that.

Have you purchased a WvW Exotic piece of gear?

I have issues when people use obtuse logic like utterly ignoring the fact that you also get karma and gold for WvWing which should net you whatever exotics you want. Easily too.

There is a valid argument that more stat combinations should be available with badges but that was not his argument.

Except WvW exotics.

Look, WvW exotics are skins. It is a cosmetic grind. It really doesn’t bother me for it to be just slightly out of reach without a bit of focused effort.

But his point does stand. Exotic WvW gear is FAR beyond what most other Exotic gear requires.

Marxo.3829:

Aaaand we have someone now complaining that exotic gear is too hard to get.

Not saying they are hard to get. I’m saying it’s a grind.

But by all means, please try to defend the cost of the exotic gear in the WvW shops. Gear that is absolutely subpar for anyone trying build themselves as anything other than a tank (and it doesn’t even do that ideally), and requires a bare minimum of 2k kills to obtain over the course of playing WvW.

I’m going to enjoy reading this defense. I just know it.

Sky.9347:

Marxo.3829:

Sky.9347:

Marxo.3829:

critickitten.1498:

WvW utilizes a (broken) reward system with the Badges of Honor (better known as Badges of Jumping), a key component in legendary items and for buying any of the best gear. We were originally told that you could level from 1 to 80 and get all the gear you needed in WvW, yet to obtain this max exotic gear through WvW play alone requires 1889 Badges of Honor. That’s a minimum of almost 2k kills,though likely more if you’re unlucky like me (I have under 250 badges despite 1.1k kills to my name). Guess what that is? A grind.

Aaaand we have someone now complaining that exotic gear is too hard to get.

Exotic WvW gear is ridiculous. AND it’s second rate gear at that.

Have you purchased a WvW Exotic piece of gear?

I have issues when people use obtuse logic like utterly ignoring the fact that you also get karma and gold for WvWing which should net you whatever exotics you want. Easily too.

There is a valid argument that more stat combinations should be available with badges but that was not his argument.

Except WvW exotics.

Look, WvW exotics are skins. It is a cosmetic grind. It really doesn’t bother me for it to be just slightly out of reach without a bit of focused effort.

But his point does stand. Exotic WvW gear is FAR beyond what most other Exotic gear requires.

Well if you’re talking about SKINS and not exotics for stats, the point is subjective. There are skins that are much harder to get in PvE than the WvW skins.

It maybe that WvW skins are overly expensive. So now we have some overly expensive skins with bad stats, to which there are plenty of cheaper, better statted and likely better looking alternatives that you are free to pursue. Does that make the game grindy?

Frankly too many people have the WoW mindset, it’s sad and quite honestly pitiful.

I do Spvp because it’s fun and I enjoy it, solo or with friends.

I do WvW because I find it fun, and enjoyable, especially with my guild or with friends.

I do dungeons all of them, including fractals, only when I’m playing with my friends because I find it enjoyable and fun.

I do the Dragon events because those are fun.

And I’ve explored most of the world and done a great many jump puzzles just to see the content.

None of this was a grind, I don’t do anything I don’t want to do. I simply play the game and have fun. And guess what, I have three full sets of exotics on my main. Multiple partially leveled alts and a nearly completed legendary.

I don’t care if I’m glory rank 1 or 80, the ranks don’t mean anything other then the types of gear and finishers you can use for aesthetics. I don’t care if I have the WvW specific exotics which are a skin. I play the game… to have fun. And do the things I want to do. Why is this concept beyond other people’s grasp.

Not ONCE did I ‘grind’ for anything. Everything in life is repetitive. EVERYTHING. Things done in repetition only become a ‘grind’ when you stop enjoying them or do them because you feel the need too. By most of the ’it’s a grind’ definitions being thrown out, sleeping every day would be considered a grind. Yet I never see anyone complain about having to sleep at night.

Play the game to have fun. Novel concept I know, but truthfully I think only the ‘older’ generations of gamers actually remember what it means to play a game for fun. And not some vainglorious achievement or some other random carrot on a stick.

I honestly pity the new gaming generations. They can’t enjoy a game for the sake of enjoying it, they have always have some ‘goal’ to get to. Some ‘achievement’ to have. There is always -something- you’ll complain about and say you need and whine about the method of how it’s acquired.

Now the achievements and goals are nice, they add something extra to a game. When you treat them as what they are, something extra. And actually play the game to have fun.

You don’t sit down and play a board game, or a game of cards with friends and family and then complain about it being a ‘grind’. If you do then you’re just a horrible person. No you do those things to have fun and enjoy some leisure time with those people. It’s about the fun. Start having it.

Marxo.3829:

It maybe that WvW skins are overly expensive.

I’m glad you admit that their prices are outrageous by comparison to similar articles in the game, and I accept your apology for accusing me of whining about something that is actually a legitimate issue.

So now we have some overly expensive skins with bad stats, to which there are plenty of cheaper, better statted and likely better looking alternatives that you are free to pursue. Does that make the game grindy?

No. As I established earlier, all that is required to create a “grind” is repetition.

However, the fact that there is a grind is an indication that the game has room to improve. And an easy way to fix this particular problem would be to increase the drop rate of badges such that you obtain them much more frequently. This would also solve the problem of people feeling as though the JPs are the only “viable” way of obtaining the badges with any degree of regularity, and would encourage players to participate in the actual fighting more.

Mesiphidon.8324:

Not ONCE did I ‘grind’ for anything. Everything in life is repetitive. EVERYTHING. Things done in repetition only become a ‘grind’ when you stop enjoying them or do them because you feel the need too. By most of the ’it’s a grind’ definitions being thrown out, sleeping every day would be considered a grind. Yet I never see anyone complain about having to sleep at night.

The definition of “grind” is repetition of a task. This has been one of the accepted definitions of the word since before video games existed. There’s a reason that some workers refer to their jobs as “the daily grind”.

The way you are using the word is subjective, adding negative connotation to it. The dictionary definition does not inherently imply negativity, only the core concept of repetition.

Which is why I said in this and every other grind thread that the question isn’t “is GW2 grindy?” (because indeed there is repetition to be found), it’s “when do I start to feel the grind and get annoyed by it?”. And that boils down to the individual.

So yeah, it’s fair enough if you haven’t felt a grind. On the other hand, given the number of threads like this that have started up, it’s obvious not everyone agrees with you. So it would be nice if you showed those individuals some respect even if you disagree with their views.

Mesiphidon.8324:

Things done in repetition only become a ‘grind’ when you stop enjoying them.

Play the game to have fun. Novel concept I know. It’s about the fun. Start having it.

I do play GW2 in order to have fun. I’m currently having fun overall. However, that doesn’t mean that in the course of my having fun, I haven’t encountered what I consider a grind. I agree that “grinding” as used in games implies not having as much as fun as you would if the grind wasn’t there. I can choose to leave off meeting my goals once I realize a grind will be involved or I can work through the grind. My choice.

It is, however, rather redundant to tell someone who IS already having fun that the answer to all grind is to “play the game to have fun.”

I don’t grind, I just play the game. Open world, dungeons, fractals, whatever. I’m around 60% there to get my legendary, I’m only on lvl 5 fractals…

Mind you I count 20% as the precursor, and I do not have it.

I play for fun, and I’m still having tons of it. Beginning to build up a guild for WVWVW/Dungeons and it’s going great.

critickitten.1498:

The definition of “grind” is repetition of a task. This has been one of the accepted definitions of the word since before video games existed. There’s a reason that some workers refer to their jobs as “the daily grind”.

The way you are using the word is subjective, adding negative connotation to it. The dictionary definition does not inherently imply negativity, only the core concept of repetition.

All language is subjective and based on the context in which it is used. Word definitions change based on how they are used and in what medium. Hence that little saying ‘It is not what you say, it is how you say it.’

Stop please stop making this an argument of semantics. For the most part when people use the word ‘grind’ in the sense and in relation to a game. It means a laborious, unwanted and often ‘forced’ repetitive activity to achieve an end goal. That often people feel is mandatory to play the game. Read the posts, everyone complaining about grinding is using it a negative manner and implying those connotations based on the context of their usage.

As I already said everything, everything let me repeat it again for clarity. Everything in life is repetitive. Repetition by default does not make a task a grind. If you have sex every day, that is repetitive, I guarantee you won’t consider it a ‘grind’. And most definitely not in the sense all these ‘omg it’s a grinding game’ threads are whining about.

I play Guild Wars many times a week, logging in isn’t a grind for me. There are a great many other activities I enjoy weekly none of these are considered a ‘grind’ because I enjoy doing them. People refer to their jobs as the ‘daily grind’ because for most it’s a laborious, forced task that is mandatory for their continued living. People who enjoy their work though, don’t really refer to their job as the daily grind.

Grinding in this context is completely subjective. And if you’re having fun or enjoying yourself it is by the context complained about not a grind.

critickitten.1498:

I’m glad you admit that their prices are outrageous by comparison to similar articles in the game, and I accept your apology for accusing me of whining about something that is actually a legitimate issue.

I didn’t accuse you of whining. I did accuse you of twisting logic. So we have both got out of our systems that WvW gear is overly expensive. If there was no alternatives to the WvW set I would agree your argument supports that this game is grindy.

But the game provides a lot of alternatives, better ones too, thus your case doesn’t support your conclusion.

If this thread was titled " WvW skins are too expensive!" I’d totally agree (and of course since we are talking about skins, even that argument is subjective). One thing does not imply the other. Your argument doesn’t support that the game is grindy as a whole.

[Edit] Thought I’d throw in, perhaps being a WvW player where there has been less updates than the rest of the world, you are feeling the grind more than the average player which is understandable. They did say additions for WvW are underway.

How’s not farming 250 globs of ectoplasm considered grinding? And making your ascended backpiece infused is requiered to play higher levels of fotm, so its not only for the looks here. There you go, grind if you want to move even higher.
Rather than this and legendaries, i think theres no grind at all at least for having the gear needed to play the game even if you will prolly look like crap.

Now there’s grind for dyes, legendaries, cool looking weapons/armors, but thats only cosmetic so that doesn’t really bothers.
But theres actual grind to get ascended, and infused ascended gear.

Mesiphidon.8324:

Stop please stop making this an argument of semantics.

But that’s what it is.

You’re trying to redefine a word based on your own subjective point of view and are ignoring the dictionary definition of the word because it doesn’t suit your conclusion of what constitutes a “grind”.

Fact of the matter is that no one will ever 100% agree with someone else. This is the nature of subjectivity: it boils down to the personal biases of the individual in question. That is why I’m using an objective definition of the term (the dictionary) to assess whether or not the term “grind” applies to GW2, because the flipside means relying on one person’s opinion and ignoring all opinions contrary to it.

Again, I am not arguing that grind is bad, as you seem to think I am. I think grind is perfectly fine in acceptable amounts. This discussion is on whether or not GW2 currently contains an “acceptable” amount of grinding. And that, again, is subjective and differs based on the individual. Given how many people are complaining about grind, it stands to reason that perhaps there is too much grind presently and we should try to look at ways that we might decrease that grind to improve the game.

Marxo.3829:

I didn’t accuse you of whining. I did accuse you of twisting logic. So we have both got out of our systems that WvW gear is overly expensive. If there was no alternatives to the WvW set I would agree your argument supports that this game is grindy.

But the game provides a lot of alternatives, better ones too, thus your case doesn’t support your conclusion.

Which is irrelevant. This particular aspect, the one you argued with me, was that WvW skins were acceptable in their present form. Thankfully you seem to have come back down here with the rest of us as you realized that their prices really aren’t as perfect as they seem, so we have no reason to contend this point further.

I maintain that this is an easily solved issue, simply up the drop rates on BoH in combat. This solves the problem well, and also cuts down on the protests that the JPs provide a more reliable BoH return rate than actual WvW play.

If this thread was titled " WvW skins are too expensive!" I’d totally agree (and of course since we are talking about skins, even that argument is subjective). One thing does not imply the other. Your argument doesn’t support that the game is grindy as a whole.

My argument that the game has grind in it has nothing to do with WvW specifically. My argument that the game contains grind is simply the fact that there are numerous aspects of the game which require significant repetition to “complete”, especially in the endgame.

Thought I’d throw in, perhaps being a WvW player where there has been less updates than the rest of the world, you are feeling the grind more than the average player which is understandable. They did say additions for WvW are underway.

I’m not a huge WvW player, actually, I’m mostly playing it as a way to escape the grind of obtaining all the kitten mats for my legendary. I’m procrastinating. >_<

I love how we are talking about about the grind for ascended gear the day before they release a patch to minimize the grind for ascended gear.

I also hate ascended gear, but I’ll give them a pass THIS time…they said it was to rectify the time requirement btwn exotics and legendary weapons.

And getting exotics in this game is very simple…

• Do all story mode dungeons (use gw2lfg if needed)
• Do 1/2 the explorable dungeon paths in the game.
• Use money and tokens earned to have full exotic set.

Ta-da. You can get a full set of exotics in a week playing 2 hours a day in either AC or CoF.

Vorch.2985:

I love how we are talking about about the grind for ascended gear the day before they release a patch to minimize the grind for ascended gear.

Well….we’ll see about that, won’t we?

I sure hope you’re right, but I won’t start holding my breath just yet.

Celtic Lady.3729:

Hellkaiser.6025:

I’m expecting that last one as an answer to be honest. Either that or “stop working towards a goal and just have fun” etc.

What if working toward a particular goal IS your definition of having fun? Or it would be if you hadn’t encountered a grind. Sometimes, in the course of having fun in a game, grinds are encountered. When one is, the choices are to give up and find something else to do or work through the grind until you’re on the other side again.

But what exactly is on the other side? It seems like in MMOs you end up grinding so that you can grind. (grinding for better gear so you can grind for better gear).

It seems to me like grinding should be defined as content which is completed for the purpose of being able to participate in conduct elsewhere and content which shouldn’t be considered a grind is content that is completed for its own sake.

Of course that leaves you with a subjective determination of what is completed for its own sake and what is completed for the sake of something else. Certainly an avid PvPer who enjoys PvPing would view PvP content as the means to an end and the end in itself whereas a PvEer might view PvP content only as the means to getting a certain piece of gear that they intend to use elsewhere.

critickitten.1498:

Marxo.3829:

I didn’t accuse you of whining. I did accuse you of twisting logic. So we have both got out of our systems that WvW gear is overly expensive. If there was no alternatives to the WvW set I would agree your argument supports that this game is grindy.

But the game provides a lot of alternatives, better ones too, thus your case doesn’t support your conclusion.

Which is irrelevant. This particular aspect, the one you argued with me, was that WvW skins were acceptable in their present form. Thankfully you seem to have come back down here with the rest of us as you realized that their prices really aren’t as perfect as they seem, so we have no reason to contend this point further.

I maintain that this is an easily solved issue, simply up the drop rates on BoH in combat. This solves the problem well, and also cuts down on the protests that the JPs provide a more reliable BoH return rate than actual WvW play.;

My statement about cost was that exotics overall are not expensive. You mistook it that I was referring to WvW exotics specifically. You can get full exotics to be fully competitive without a grind.

The fact that there are alternatives to getting exotics with as good stats as WvW set is completely relevant because that means the grind you are complaining about is unnecessary, thus your argument falls short on this topic.

Unless you consider a purely cosmetic grind for this armor necessary, which few people will agree with. That is the topic at hand.

Again, I’m not opposed to lowering the cost of this set.

Dante.1508:

Wasabi Kitty.8247:

You don’t have to grind. Yes you can grind if you want to, but grinding only makes you look prettier. Statwise someone whose been 80 for a week or two will be the same as someone whose been 80 for 3 months and been grinding nonstop. He might be prettier, but his stats are the same.

What do you do in this game that doesn’t require grind? So if its optional point me to a part of the game that doesn’t require grind in some form or another?

please.

Easy. There’s well…the entire open world. There’s also dungeons and fractals.

As someone else said, by the time you hit 80 you can buy a whole set of exotics. Dungeons let you get the pieces you really want and only take a couple dungeon runs per each piece.(Not to mention the money and other rewards you get, including the fun of doing them).

The ONLY grind in this game is Legendary crafting. That’s it. Everything else is easy as can be.

Ellisande.5218:

But what exactly is on the other side? It seems like in MMOs you end up grinding so that you can grind. (grinding for better gear so you can grind for better gear).

When it comes to gear, I agree with you. MMOs often give a player a grind whose purpose is to outfit you for a raid which will ultimately result in better gear so you can then use that better gear to grind for the next set of good gear. In this way, the gear grind seems endless for the life of the game.

The particular grind I’m referring to involves crafting, so I could actually grind my way to my goal and get to the other side if I chose to. At least until Anet releases another set of recipes with ridiculously high amounts of rare materials. lol

Rhysati.4932:

I disagree. I have encountered non-legendary crafting recipes that are quite the grind for me to complete. I may choose to do that grind or I may not, but it is still going to be a grind for me regardless.

The grind comes from endgame lack of content is all. I’m pretty sure these complaints are coming from players who already have invested substantial time into the game.

Sure there’s some things to do that I’m sure every1 else has listed. But it gets repetitive after awhile.

So what exactly is the solution that some people here want?

Do you want:
Legendaries and rare items to be easier to get (hence no longer rare)? Would you be happy if a lot of people were toting around the same legendary skin? Would it still be legendary, and would it still be a goal worth pursuing?

More content? Do you expect most steps of your trip to a legendary or expensive armor set to be fresh content? Do you think it’s possible for a development team to develop content faster than a goal-oriented person can consume it? Is the current monthly content update not enough?

Please no unrealistic answers like redesign the game from scratch to be sandbox.

Since you asked for lots of voices, here’s mine (lalala!).

For my experience, the core of the game (as I understand it) has been low on the grind. I was able to get to 100% Map completion, finished personal story, experienced a lot of the DEs (though not all), did some crafting, played the holiday events, did a few dungeons, did a little WvW, payed attention to the scenery, etc. I also played several alts to various levels (and continue to).

Once I decided I wanted to wanted to do some OCD completionist stuff (max out every crafting discipline, start working toward a legendary or a few of the rare crafted items, get a bunch of the more miscellaneous achievements), that is where I encountered a hardcore grind. For me, the grind as been almost entirely around trying to get gold and/or materials for crafting. I went into those tasks knowing fully that there was a lot of grind, though the sheer amount of it does surprise me at times.

It has always seemed to me that every MMO I’ve ever seen has a vocal minority who are adamant that the developers are not listening, that their pet peeve is the flaw that will bring the game tumbling down, that (insert X change here) has ruined everything, that something a dev has said is a horrible lie, etc etc etc. My main take away from that has been that there is no pleasing some people, and that there are more differing perspectives than anyone can address.

Sky.9347:

Raf.1078:

If you are having fun, its not a grind. If, however, you turn it into a job…then its a grind.

Its a mindset. And its your responsibility to to recognize how its affecting you and adjust your gameplay or attitude. Or not.

All any game can do is provide a framework for enjoyment. Its not Anet’s faut that you play the way you do.

Until Lost Shores, they held true to their pre-release promise that I could play GW2 the way I wanted to, now I have to play it they say I should.

You see, grind in most people’s minds (like you mentioned up there) is doing stuff they don’t want to do, in order to do the stuff they do.

“preparing to have fun, rather than having fun”

Again…the game is simply a framework presented to you. If you can’t find the fun in it, no one can do it for you.

Its “your” responsibility. Not ANets’.

Raf.1078:

Sky.9347:

Raf.1078:

If you are having fun, its not a grind. If, however, you turn it into a job…then its a grind.

Its a mindset. And its your responsibility to to recognize how its affecting you and adjust your gameplay or attitude. Or not.

All any game can do is provide a framework for enjoyment. Its not Anet’s faut that you play the way you do.

Until Lost Shores, they held true to their pre-release promise that I could play GW2 the way I wanted to, now I have to play it they say I should.

You see, grind in most people’s minds (like you mentioned up there) is doing stuff they don’t want to do, in order to do the stuff they do.

“preparing to have fun, rather than having fun”

Again…the game is simply a framework presented to you. If you can’t find the fun in it, no one can do it for you.

Its “your” responsibility. Not ANets’.

That is a cop out excuse for the weak minded and uncreative. This is like a chef saying it doesn’t matter what his food tastes like.

All art and design has an audience, if the audience isn’t satisfied, it’s your fault not theirs.
A good artist considers critique, and improves. A bad artist makes this claim, and doesn’t.

Celtic Lady.3729:

What if working toward a particular goal IS your definition of having fun? Or it would be if you hadn’t encountered a grind. Sometimes, in the course of having fun in a game, grinds are encountered. When one is, the choices are to give up and find something else to do or work through the grind until you’re on the other side again.

Sky.9347:

Except WvW exotics.

Look, WvW exotics are skins. It is a cosmetic grind.

That’s the sum of it really. So heres the deal.

When you run into something where you cannot even play this game unless you grind it out, then you have a case to make.

Nothing prevents you from playing the game as is right now with others in whatever you’ve so happened to aquire.

Those shiny cosmetic things are nice goals to set for yourself based on want and taste. But they are not necessary at all.

Conncept.7638:

That is a cop out excuse for the weak minded and uncreative. This is like a chef saying it doesn’t matter what his food tastes like.

All art and design has an audience, if the audience isn’t satisfied, it’s your fault not theirs.
A good artist considers critique, and improves. A bad artist makes this claim, and doesn’t.

Oh but of course!

After all, the Guild Wars series is objectively an awful set of games that just didn’t get it’s audience.

Because critics are never wrong and public opinion is a god that must be served zealously, right?

Furthermore, official forums are certainly a bastion of unbiased and professional critics of the highest caliber and certainly represent the entirety of the user base.

Come off it man.

If you don’t like the game, just leave. You’re not fooling anyone. You’re being “that guy” that says Paul Bocuse or Gordon Ramsay sucks at cooking.

CETheLucid.3964:

Conncept.7638:

That is a cop out excuse for the weak minded and uncreative. This is like a chef saying it doesn’t matter what his food tastes like.

All art and design has an audience, if the audience isn’t satisfied, it’s your fault not theirs.
A good artist considers critique, and improves. A bad artist makes this claim, and doesn’t.

Oh but of course!

After all, the Guild Wars series is objectively an awful set of games that just didn’t get it’s audience.

Because critics are never wrong and public opinion is a god that must be served zealously, right?

Furthermore, official forums are certainly a bastion of unbiased and professional critics of the highest caliber and certainly represent the entirety of the user base.

Come off it man.

If you don’t like the game, just leave. You’re not fooling anyone. You’re being “that guy” that says Paul Bocuse or Gordon Ramsay sucks at cooking.

Did you grab the wrong quote? Because, every single point you made, had nothing to do with my post. And nothing in my post indicated that I would disagree with anything you said. My post, if anything, encouraged constructive criticism.

• I didn’t even mention Guild Wars 1, nor did I make any comparison between GW1 and GW2. And to be honest, I barely played it and I don’t care in the slightest in what ways you or anyone else think it was superior. This is not Guild Wars 1.

• I didn’t mention media critics one way or the other, but yes if you’re curios, I do in fact place the opinion of professional critics well below that of the audience, because real art is made for an audience, an artist who creates solely for the opinions of a professional critic is a failure by that aim alone.

• And I love this game, no intention of going anywhere, I also never said otherwise. But I have complaints about it which the designers are at fault for, as do other people, and I encourage anyone to make them heard in a constructive manner, and I encourage the devs to consider those criticisms, just as I said in my post.

I mean really, do you not speak English and are using google translate or something? Are you dictating to someone who is incorrectly posting for you? There has got to be something to explain your post. I can’t even figure out how to respond, it’s like you just countered a political argument with a scientific study on how cats make great pets. I can’t counter an argument that not only didn’t counter mine, but didn’t even address the same subject.

CETheLucid.3964:

When you run into something where you cannot even play this game unless you grind it out, then you have a case to make.

Sure, I can play the game. But I have definitely come across a situation where my choices are grind it out or quit doing the task. That’s my point. Even while having fun, one can encounter a grind.

There is no “required” grind. You can see everything this game has to offer without grinding or doing the same piece of content twice or grinding gear to enter end game content.

I don’t consider leveling from 1 – 80 a grind, because you’re playing the game as it’s intended, as a game.

Of course you can grind for full exotic set and a legendary, but you never have to to see content.

Malthurius.6870:

There is no “required” grind. You can see everything this game has to offer without grinding.

Actually, there are curently 6 things that I can’t “see” without doing a grind. lol GW2 has done a good job compared to other games I’ve played in lowering the grind, but there are still occasions where grinding is necessary to accomplish an otherwise enjoyable goal.

Conncept.7638:

Raf.1078:

Sky.9347:

Raf.1078:

If you are having fun, its not a grind. If, however, you turn it into a job…then its a grind.

Its a mindset. And its your responsibility to to recognize how its affecting you and adjust your gameplay or attitude. Or not.

All any game can do is provide a framework for enjoyment. Its not Anet’s faut that you play the way you do.

Not even a good comparison. ANet has to go with what they feel is right for the game because they know that no matter what they do, someone will complain.

Until Lost Shores, they held true to their pre-release promise that I could play GW2 the way I wanted to, now I have to play it they say I should.

You see, grind in most people’s minds (like you mentioned up there) is doing stuff they don’t want to do, in order to do the stuff they do.

“preparing to have fun, rather than having fun”

Again…the game is simply a framework presented to you. If you can’t find the fun in it, no one can do it for you.

Its “your” responsibility. Not ANets’.

That is a cop out excuse for the weak minded and uncreative. This is like a chef saying it doesn’t matter what his food tastes like.

All art and design has an audience, if the audience isn’t satisfied, it’s your fault not theirs.
A good artist considers critique, and improves. A bad artist makes this claim, and doesn’t.

That doesn’t work and you know it. ANet has to go with what they think is best because no matter what they do, someone on this forum will complain.

Dradiin.8935:

GRIND, we all were told this game was designed for no grind, that’s wholeheartedly false.

False how? I never grind, I just do whatever I want and I have 2 80’s fully geared in exotics and plenty of money in the bank. I run a couple dungeons a day if I feel like it, I play a lot of WvW, sometimes I level alts with friends.

Where is all this grind people are complaining about? Exclusive skins, or Legendary items are completely optional/non-essential to gameplay and should not be used to label this as a “grindy” game.

You don’t need to grind to have fun in WvW. You don’t need to grind to have fun in dynamic events and explore the world. You don’t need to grind to have fun in sPvP. You don’t need to grind to get rare gear (which is fine for all areas of the game).

You do need to grind to get optional cosmetic gear. You do need to grind to complete optional achievements. There is nothing in GW2 that requires grinding in order to have fun. It is only a grind if you want that legendary or if you want certain exotic cosmetics, all of which are optional and are not necessary to enjoy the game.

Rin.1046:

There is nothing in GW2 that requires grinding in order to have fun. It is only a grind if you want that legendary or if you want certain exotic cosmetics, all of which are optional and are not necessary to enjoy the game.

Well, that partly depends on one’s definition of fun. I’ve encountered grind in my playstyle that really doesn’t involve legendaries or equipping myself with exotics.

Dradiin.8935:

GRIND, we all were told this game was designed for no grind, that’s wholeheartedly false.

How can this be reduced in this games current form?

Is the perceived grind just an exxageration? If so how can this perception be adjusted?

Do we as gamers feel the Devs see our point of view on this?

Will communication on this subject happen?

So just some thoughts I would like to discuss with my fellow players. I will gladly take my infraction for asking such slanderous questions. As long as we get to discuss this.

The most communication you will get is Jonathan coming to your forum and going “We are here! We are listening and we appreciate your feedback!”

And then nothing changes.

Also I agree that I will most likely be infracted for saying that too…if I am I will be back to tell you guys I was censored lol.

Celtic Lady.3729:

emikochan.8504:

I’m still not seeing any grind, I have everything I want from just playing normally and having fun.

Maybe the complainers are just impatient.

It’s a simple concept, really. I’m a different person than you. With me so far? Therefore, my experiences are likely to be different from yours. And other players’ experiences are different from mine. Therefore, while you may not be experiencing grind in your play, others like me are. We’re not impatient. It’s a matter that some of what we enjoy in the game requires farming and/or grind at times.

Again, your experiences are not the entire sum of the whole world. It is therefore illogical to assume that since one person (you) are not experiencing grind, all the rest of the thousands of players are also not.

This goes both ways. You may experience a grind, but it’s illogial to assume the rest of the thousands of players are also. So these threads are pointless.

People seem to have forgotten what a grind is though. As someone said, unless you’ve played a non-westernized Korean MMORPG you know ZERO about grinding. There is zero grinding, because you are NOT FORCED TO DO THINGS. You don’t need to grind to level, you don’t even need to grind to gear, or see content.

The only grinding that exists is for skins. Even then, I’m loathe to call that a grind. Skins are purely optional. Choosing to do something then calling it a grind doesn’t make sense. Because grind does not mean choosing to farm for mats to get a shiny new skin.

Evelynddra.9265

This goes both ways. You may experience a grind, but it’s illogial to assume the rest of the thousands of players are also. So these threads are pointless.

I never assume anyone is experiencing grind in this game unless they’ve specifically stated so. As you say, to do so would be highly illogical. lol

Raf.1078:

Conncept.7638:

Raf.1078:

Sky.9347:

Raf.1078:

If you are having fun, its not a grind. If, however, you turn it into a job…then its a grind.

Its a mindset. And its your responsibility to to recognize how its affecting you and adjust your gameplay or attitude. Or not.

All any game can do is provide a framework for enjoyment. Its not Anet’s faut that you play the way you do.

Not even a good comparison. ANet has to go with what they feel is right for the game because they know that no matter what they do, someone will complain.

Until Lost Shores, they held true to their pre-release promise that I could play GW2 the way I wanted to, now I have to play it they say I should.

You see, grind in most people’s minds (like you mentioned up there) is doing stuff they don’t want to do, in order to do the stuff they do.

“preparing to have fun, rather than having fun”

Again…the game is simply a framework presented to you. If you can’t find the fun in it, no one can do it for you.

Its “your” responsibility. Not ANets’.

That is a cop out excuse for the weak minded and uncreative. This is like a chef saying it doesn’t matter what his food tastes like.

All art and design has an audience, if the audience isn’t satisfied, it’s your fault not theirs.
A good artist considers critique, and improves. A bad artist makes this claim, and doesn’t.

That doesn’t work and you know it. ANet has to go with what they think is best because no matter what they do, someone on this forum will complain.

No duh, I didn’t say otherwise. I said they should consider all critique, not implement it. That’s not even possible seeing as one critique can completely contradict another. But the more critique they consider, dismissing or accepting it, the more varied the data they have to improve upon.

And sorry, but I happen to work in the design industry. And you’re the second person to say this who obviously has no idea what he or she is talking about. So while I’m here, might as well ask, any other people who know jack-squat about design-theory want to challenge me on this?

critickitten.1498:

Mesiphidon.8324:

Stop please stop making this an argument of semantics.

But that’s what it is.

You’re trying to redefine a word based on your own subjective point of view and are ignoring the dictionary definition of the word because it doesn’t suit your conclusion of what constitutes a “grind”.

Fact of the matter is that no one will ever 100% agree with someone else. This is the nature of subjectivity: it boils down to the personal biases of the individual in question. That is why I’m using an objective definition of the term (the dictionary) to assess whether or not the term “grind” applies to GW2, because the flipside means relying on one person’s opinion and ignoring all opinions contrary to it.

http://www.thefreedictionary.com/grind
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/grind
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/grind

Your “objective” use of the word doesn’t exist. If we use the closest informal use (laborious task) it still is subjective because what it laborious to you, may not be laborious to me. Even if we use it as repetitive task it’s subjective. There is ZERO objectivity in language. Words are comepletely subjective. I talk to friends everyday, is that a grind? I use my phone everyday, is that a grind? Both of these things I don’t HAVE to do (just like getting skins). I do them because I like it, so I don’t see it as a grind.

Now, if we think of grind in relation to video games that terms takes on another informal (but widely used) meaning. And it’s solely repetative/laborious task.

“Grinding is a term used in video gaming to describe the process of engaging in repetitive tasks during video games. The most common usage is in the context of MMORPGs like Final Fantasy XI, World of Warcraft, Tibia, or Lineage in which it is often necessary for a character to repeatedly kill AI-controlled monsters, using basically the same strategy over again to advance their character level to be able to access newer content. MUDs, generally sharing much of the same gameplay as MMORPGs, encounter the same problem. Grinding may be required by some games to unlock additional features.”

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grinding_

Using it this way still doesn’t work with the idea of GW2 being grindy. There are multiple ways of various efficiencies to level and gear. Like crafting, gathering, WvW, hearts, story quest, dungeons, exploring and good ol mob killing. You can get gear by doing things for karma, tokens, or gold. There are also various methods for these ways. Different events, different dungeons, different activities that net you money.

A+ for effort though.

Writetyper.1985:

which confuses me, because it seems like you’re grinding in a game where it’s completely optional to grind and then complaining about having to grind.

Grind became the only gameplay 4+ months ago. Optional grind was something we had 2.5 weeks after launch.