Guild Wars 2

Hi there,

I’ve been reading alot of the topics posted on the forum and I notice a lot are about players who complain there is no ‘endgame’ content. Most of the times, I read that ‘we’(the players that want ‘real end-game content’) are seen as 1 group that think about 1 thing when it comes to end-game content: the standard WoW gear treadmill. This is not always the case, and many discussion are useless then, because the persons that shoot down the posters that want end-game content think that they mean they want WoW gear treadmill, which in alot of cases is not what that poster meant by end-game content.

When you read the posts carefully, you can see there are 2 different groups and we want endgame content that is way different from each other.

There is the WoW gear treadmill group. I have to say, I disagree with the players who want that kind of endgame content. It’s not going to happen, since launch that was clear. I too want end-game content, but not that kind of end-game content. These are the people that want to change the game, and I disagree with them.

BUT, there is also a second group that complains there is no real end-game content, but they want something completely different than the pro-wow gear treadmill guys.
What ‘we’ want is: challenging, replayable content that actually makes you feel that you have achieved something. Something you have to work for, practice your skills for, practice the mechanics because if you don’t know the mechanics, you fail. Not just some make-your-legendary-that-is-endgame-but-the-only-thing-it-is-is-farm-mats-and-gold-for-precursor-endgame. Ofcourse, this game aims at casual players, but even casual games need hard and challenging content. And this game is a MMO, even if you say you aim at casuals that play 2 hours in 2 days, you KNOW there are always people that play your game more, more than the standard casual player(but not necessarily as much as no-lifers). That’s just what happens when you create a MMO. And no, you can’t say: but hey, they said it was for casuals, you are a more hardcore player than a casual, so just go play another game. That’s like building a sportscar, but it is aimed to sell to grandma’s and grandpa’s that don’t drive harder than 100km/h. Even if you do so, you KNOW there are people outside that targeted audience that will buy that car, so you have to make that car go harder. Some products just have standardized expactions. Same goes for MMO’s.

So my point here is just to clear up those 2 types of groups. I disagree with the people that want the WoW gear treadmill stuff, but I strongly think this game needs end-game the way group 2 sees it.

Illuminati.2431:

That’s like building a sportscar, but it is aimed to sell to grandma’s and grandpa’s that don’t drive harder than 100km/h.

No, that’s like building an economy car for city commuting, and some people protesting that this car doesn’t allow them to drive at 200km/h. It doesn’t , because it isn’t a sports car.

Astralporing.1957:

Illuminati.2431:

That’s like building a sportscar, but it is aimed to sell to grandma’s and grandpa’s that don’t drive harder than 100km/h.

No, that’s like building an economy car for city commuting, and some people protesting that this car doesn’t allow them to drive at 200km/h. It doesn’t , because it isn’t a sports car.

No.
The standarized expectations for an economy city car is NOT to drive 200km/h.

But the standarized expactations for an MMO is that is actually has something rewarding/challenging etc. to do once you hit max level.

Those expectations are only made stronger if your version 1 of the game(Guild wars 1) actually had them.

So, what exactly do you wish to see? It would probably be helpful if players gave the Devs something more specific than ‘non-gear-treadmill end-game content’.

Define “rewarding”, please. What do you consider rewarding, and how would you expect a reward structure to be so that the “reward” of the challenging content is on the same value level as “reward” for other GW2 content?

The major complaint I see these days about the challenging content this game does have (no matter if it’s complex world bosses like thw or harder dungeons like high-level fractals) is that “it isn’t rewarding because no guaranteed skins and you get gold easier in other places”. This leads me to the conclusion that (many) people asking for challenging and rewarding content actually expect said content to have better rewards for other parts of the game, which indirectly forces people into that very content again.

It may not be a WoW-style gear treadmill, but it leads to the same situation: People are forced into a certain kind of content to get the “best” rewards and the bragging-rights attached, if you make rewards for that kind of content outstanding. And if you don’t make it outstanding but keep it in line with the rest of the game, a large part of the people calling for challenging content end up complaining that the content isn’t worth it because they get their shinies easier through other content.

I don’t want WoW end game.
I don’t want gear grind.

I want GW1 end game.

Inculpatus cedo.9234:

So, what exactly do you wish to see? It would probably be helpful if players gave the Devs something more specific than ‘non-gear-treadmill end-game content’.

I would like to see more bosses like Liadri. It required (a bit) of skill, you had to understand mechanics. You had to practice it. I never stumbled across someone who never played Liadri and finished it in one try.

Something like SAB. I think the majority of players want SAB back for a couple of reasons. It was challenging. Tribulation mode was hard. It had rewards for the casuals, but if you did tribulation mode you would get a ‘better’ reward. That way, it made sense to complete it on hard difficulty. And most of all, IMO, it was replayable. You could run the same world over again and find other paths, other things. It’s not like LS where they force you to replay the same episode just for the achievments. Ofcourse, you could do all the SAB achievments in one run, but that wasn’t always the best option. Replayability is the key word here. Not all of you agree, I know, but it was there. You can have the same mechanics, replayability, rewards, all of that, in content that ‘connects to Tyria’(one of the reasons SAB isn’t on their priority list is because it didn’t ‘fit in the world’). I think that is one of the reasons people want SAB back. And that’s just an example.

Nick.6972:

I don’t want WoW end game.
I don’t want gear grind.

I want GW1 end game.

Exactly, that’s what I told in my first post. Some groups define end-game as WoW endgame. Like I stated in that post, I disagree with those people.

Nick.6972:

I don’t want WoW end game.
I don’t want gear grind.

I want GW1 end game.

Didn’t read the original post, eh? It’s cool, no one blames you.

Draknar.5748:

Nick.6972:

I don’t want WoW end game.
I don’t want gear grind.

I want GW1 end game.

Didn’t read the original post, eh? It’s cool, no one blames you.

Yeah like I said in my original post, as soon someone starts about talking they want more end-game, people immediatly think that those people mean WoW end-game. My post was to clarify that that isn’t always the case, and before people shoot them down with: No wow-endgame, they should first read what the poster meant with more end-game content. Because this, I think, is one of the main reasons that a healthy discussion about the ‘there is no endgame content’ isn’t possible. People immediatly assume we want to become a WoW clone.

What you have here is a good start, OP and I agree with your conclusions to a point. In fact, I’ve known all along that some people just want challenging content…like Liadri.

The issue becomes how many people are going to play that challenging content. This is where the rewards factor comes in.

Anet made a challenging dungeon, and it is challenging compared to other dungeons. I mean TA Aetherblade path is probably the hardest dungeon in the game. It’s not often run, because it’s not “rewarding”. And this is where the real problem starts.

In most MMOs, the harder content gives better rewards, which encourages people to do that content. Without the better rewards a lot of people simply won’t.

Which means those people aren’t doing hard content for fun, they’re doing hard content for rewards.

Rewarding hard content provides kitten and them situation. You get an upper class and an underclass in game.

The more you have of it, the more the new people and people who don’t really want to kill themselves to get a reward will feel disenfranchised…whether they’re wrong to feel that way or not.

This game works on a trickle theory. Everything you do trickles in. You get a trickle of rares and exotics, a trickle of tier six mats, a trickle of lodestones. Karma comes a bit faster and you can farm it, but at the end of the day, you’re not really going to be getting the “big” drops, because you can get drops anywhere.

What I’m trying to say is that if you make hard content you have to up the rewards and if you make that hard content rewarding, you run the risk of disenfranchising the casual player base, which I’m assuming is larger than the people who want hard content.

If you don’t make the rewards higher, then you have less people doing it and it becomes what TA Aetherblade Path is. A dungeon that took a long time to make but received only a little bit of use.

Put yourself in Anet’s place. If you make hard content and only a small percentage of the playerbase attempts it, or gets through it, would you keep making more hard content?

It doesn’t mater if the car can run at 200Km/h.

It isn’t supposed to. Most city roads are meant to go 30…50 at most, intercity roads 60…90 and highways 100…120 or so. When somebody goes past that, you give them a ticket and take points out of heir license.

There’s lots to do and more stuff will always be welcomed, but that doesn’t mean there’s nothing there. There will always people who want more, but you can’t accomodate to them at the expense of the rest of the player. At some point a single part of the game will run out of content, and those focusing on that will have to choose: either try other things in the game, or go play another game until new content for their style is made.

The problem here isn’t that there is no End Game. It’s people not seeing the forest for the trees. There’s lots of things to do, but it’s not what they were expecting, so they do not see it as the next thing to do.

People have been telling them that collecting skins is part of the endgame like in GW1 with prestige armors and rare weapon drops. I guess now they’ll see it thanks to the collections. And still some will just ignore that. But it doesn’t matter if they ignore part of the content. That won’t change the fact that the content is there.

Vayne.8563:

What you have here is a good start, OP and I agree with your conclusions to a point. In fact, I’ve known all along that some people just want challenging content…like Liadri.

The issue becomes how many people are going to play that challenging content. This is where the rewards factor comes in.

Anet made a challenging dungeon, and it is challenging compared to other dungeons. I mean TA Aetherblade path is probably the hardest dungeon in the game. It’s not often run, because it’s not “rewarding”. And this is where the real problem starts.

In most MMOs, the harder content gives better rewards, which encourages people to do that content. Without the better rewards a lot of people simply won’t.

Which means those people aren’t doing hard content for fun, they’re doing hard content for rewards.

Rewarding hard content provides kitten and them situation. You get an upper class and an underclass in game.

The more you have of it, the more the new people and people who don’t really want to kill themselves to get a reward will feel disenfranchised…whether they’re wrong to feel that way or not.

This game works on a trickle theory. Everything you do trickles in. You get a trickle of rares and exotics, a trickle of tier six mats, a trickle of lodestones. Karma comes a bit faster and you can farm it, but at the end of the day, you’re not really going to be getting the “big” drops, because you can get drops anywhere.

What I’m trying to say is that if you make hard content you have to up the rewards and if you make that hard content rewarding, you run the risk of disenfranchising the casual player base, which I’m assuming is larger than the people who want hard content.

If you don’t make the rewards higher, then you have less people doing it and it becomes what TA Aetherblade Path is. A dungeon that took a long time to make but received only a little bit of use.

Put yourself in Anet’s place. If you make hard content and only a small percentage of the playerbase attempts it, or gets through it, would you keep making more hard content?

Casual playebase already has tones of casual content it is called gw2 pve . This should be normal that people who spend few hours mastering some really hard content should get better rewards instead of 2 blue 1 green

Vayne.8563:

What I’m trying to say is that if you make hard content you have to up the rewards and if you make that hard content rewarding, you run the risk of disenfranchising the casual player base, which I’m assuming is larger than the people who want hard content.
If you don’t make the rewards higher, then you have less people doing it and it becomes what TA Aetherblade Path is. A dungeon that took a long time to make but received only a little bit of use.

Making rewards higher can mean different things. I know what you mean, we don’t want higher rewards in the sense of BETTER stats etc. But look at SAB. If you did the tribulation mode, you were guaranteed an other skin. TA only has the TA weapon set, which drop like almost never. So it’s challenging, but you would have to be extremely lucky to get the skin. The skin was behind RNG, and that’s were its ruined. Tribulation mode skins weren’t behind RNG. You had to complete hard content, but once you completed it you knew something was rewarding you for completing harder content. And that’s the difference between SAB skins and TA skins.

I am getting really sick and tired of people claiming “casuals” or people that only play “a couple hours a day” don’t want challenging content. It’s absolutely bullkitten.

I’m one of those “casual, couple hour a day” people, and I have made plenty of suggestions for more challenging content. I have made it known that I would like to see things like FoW, UW, and DoA come back. Even going as far to say that those areas should function similarly to how they did in GW1 – your party wipes, you start over.

Now, that rant aside, OP you need to consider that there are more than “just” the two groups you’re trying to lump everyone in to. Yes, you have the group that desires a gear treadmill, and I agree that they won’t find their home here. This isn’t that type of game (thankfully). Then you have those that desire harder, more challenging encounters; however they seem to be under the impression that this needs to be locked into massive raids, which isn’t necessarily true. You also have cosmetic hunters/collectors that want more in game armors, more legendary weapons and eventually legendary gear to collect. You have the lore hounds that desire more main story, more information regarding the loose ends left in GW1, etc. You also have explorers that simply want more zones to uncover, more hidden nooks to discover. There are hardcore wvw players that would like more maps, more functionality. There are RPers that would like to see more support for their type of play – interactable objects, more ‘town clothes,’ etc. You have the hardcore pvp crowd that wants more modes and more maps. You have the guild centric players that want more guild missions, buildable guild halls. And you even have the farmville type people that want customizable housing and little plantable plots.

Anet can’t cater to everyone, and they can only work so fast.

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

Now, that rant aside, OP you need to consider that there are more than “just” the two groups you’re trying to lump everyone in to. Yes, you have the group that desires a gear treadmill, and I agree that they won’t find their home here. This isn’t that type of game (thankfully). Then you have those that desire harder, more challenging encounters; however they seem to be under the impression that this needs to be locked into massive raids, which isn’t necessarily true. You also have cosmetic hunters/collectors that want more in game armors, more legendary weapons and eventually legendary gear to collect. You have the lore hounds that desire more main story, more information regarding the loose ends left in GW1, etc. You also have explorers that simply want more zones to uncover, more hidden nooks to discover. There are hardcore wvw players that would like more maps, more functionality. There are RPers that would like to see more support for their type of play – interactable objects, more ‘town clothes,’ etc. You have the hardcore pvp crowd that wants more modes and more maps. You have the guild centric players that want more guild missions, buildable guild halls. And you even have the farmville type people that want customizable housing and little plantable plots.

Anet can’t cater to everyone, and they can only work so fast.

Indeed, and now they have had 2 years to add content for all those groups, but almost none of those groups got real content. It would be different when this game was launched a couple of months ago and we would already complain there is nothing new. That’s a whole different story. But is has been 2 years, 2 years…

Astralporing.1957:

Illuminati.2431:

That’s like building a sportscar, but it is aimed to sell to grandma’s and grandpa’s that don’t drive harder than 100km/h.

No, that’s like building an economy car for city commuting, and some people protesting that this car doesn’t allow them to drive at 200km/h. It doesn’t , because it isn’t a sports car.

MMO’s are the sport cars of gaming. While GW2 doesn’t have to offer a gear treadmill, it should offer challenging content. While I did get really frustrated trying to fight Liadri the first 30+ times, I enjoyed it later.

Illuminati.2431:

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

Now, that rant aside, OP you need to consider that there are more than “just” the two groups you’re trying to lump everyone in to. Yes, you have the group that desires a gear treadmill, and I agree that they won’t find their home here. This isn’t that type of game (thankfully). Then you have those that desire harder, more challenging encounters; however they seem to be under the impression that this needs to be locked into massive raids, which isn’t necessarily true. You also have cosmetic hunters/collectors that want more in game armors, more legendary weapons and eventually legendary gear to collect. You have the lore hounds that desire more main story, more information regarding the loose ends left in GW1, etc. You also have explorers that simply want more zones to uncover, more hidden nooks to discover. There are hardcore wvw players that would like more maps, more functionality. There are RPers that would like to see more support for their type of play – interactable objects, more ‘town clothes,’ etc. You have the hardcore pvp crowd that wants more modes and more maps. You have the guild centric players that want more guild missions, buildable guild halls. And you even have the farmville type people that want customizable housing and little plantable plots.

Anet can’t cater to everyone, and they can only work so fast.

Indeed, and now they have had 2 years to add content for all those groups, but almost none of those groups got real content. It would be different when this game was launched a couple of months ago and we would already complain there is nothing new. That’s a whole different story. But is has been 2 years, 2 years…

Yes, it’s been two years, but they also launched in China in May. They had to make a lot of changes to the NA/EU game to make it China compatible. I’m guessing that took a lot more work that they initially thought, although much of the work they did/redid for that launch is now migrating its way back into our codebase so we can benefit from some of it as well. (not happy with all of it, but that’s a different topic)

I fully expect that we’ll be hearing about an expansion soon. They are laying the ground work, its blatantly obvious what they are doing. The systems over hauls for new players, the busy work for vets. It’s coming, I can feel it in my bones. Sure, it’s a little ‘later’ than typically MMOs (which generally have their first expansion out somewhere between 1.5 and 2.5 years after initial launch – go google if you don’t believe me). However, most MMOs don’t take a year to revamp and then release in China either. Beyond that, considering ‘buy to play’ is new in China, launching an expansion too closely to the initial launch would be suicide when trying to get a new market to ‘buy into’ this new method.

VOLTCIEAGE.3029:

Vayne.8563:

What you have here is a good start, OP and I agree with your conclusions to a point. In fact, I’ve known all along that some people just want challenging content…like Liadri.

The issue becomes how many people are going to play that challenging content. This is where the rewards factor comes in.

Anet made a challenging dungeon, and it is challenging compared to other dungeons. I mean TA Aetherblade path is probably the hardest dungeon in the game. It’s not often run, because it’s not “rewarding”. And this is where the real problem starts.

In most MMOs, the harder content gives better rewards, which encourages people to do that content. Without the better rewards a lot of people simply won’t.

Which means those people aren’t doing hard content for fun, they’re doing hard content for rewards.

Rewarding hard content provides kitten and them situation. You get an upper class and an underclass in game.

The more you have of it, the more the new people and people who don’t really want to kill themselves to get a reward will feel disenfranchised…whether they’re wrong to feel that way or not.

This game works on a trickle theory. Everything you do trickles in. You get a trickle of rares and exotics, a trickle of tier six mats, a trickle of lodestones. Karma comes a bit faster and you can farm it, but at the end of the day, you’re not really going to be getting the “big” drops, because you can get drops anywhere.

What I’m trying to say is that if you make hard content you have to up the rewards and if you make that hard content rewarding, you run the risk of disenfranchising the casual player base, which I’m assuming is larger than the people who want hard content.

If you don’t make the rewards higher, then you have less people doing it and it becomes what TA Aetherblade Path is. A dungeon that took a long time to make but received only a little bit of use.

Put yourself in Anet’s place. If you make hard content and only a small percentage of the playerbase attempts it, or gets through it, would you keep making more hard content?

Casual playebase already has tones of casual content it is called gw2 pve . This should be normal that people who spend few hours mastering some really hard content should get better rewards instead of 2 blue 1 green

According to those players yes. And maybe even, logically according to the other players. Has nothing to do with how it would make them feel though.

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

Illuminati.2431:

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

Now, that rant aside, OP you need to consider that there are more than “just” the two groups you’re trying to lump everyone in to. Yes, you have the group that desires a gear treadmill, and I agree that they won’t find their home here. This isn’t that type of game (thankfully). Then you have those that desire harder, more challenging encounters; however they seem to be under the impression that this needs to be locked into massive raids, which isn’t necessarily true. You also have cosmetic hunters/collectors that want more in game armors, more legendary weapons and eventually legendary gear to collect. You have the lore hounds that desire more main story, more information regarding the loose ends left in GW1, etc. You also have explorers that simply want more zones to uncover, more hidden nooks to discover. There are hardcore wvw players that would like more maps, more functionality. There are RPers that would like to see more support for their type of play – interactable objects, more ‘town clothes,’ etc. You have the hardcore pvp crowd that wants more modes and more maps. You have the guild centric players that want more guild missions, buildable guild halls. And you even have the farmville type people that want customizable housing and little plantable plots.

Anet can’t cater to everyone, and they can only work so fast.

Indeed, and now they have had 2 years to add content for all those groups, but almost none of those groups got real content. It would be different when this game was launched a couple of months ago and we would already complain there is nothing new. That’s a whole different story. But is has been 2 years, 2 years…

Yes, it’s been two years, but they also launched in China in May. They had to make a lot of changes to the NA/EU game to make it China compatible. I’m guessing that took a lot more work that they initially thought, although much of the work they did/redid for that launch is now migrating its way back into our codebase so we can benefit from some of it as well. (not happy with all of it, but that’s a different topic)

I fully expect that we’ll be hearing about an expansion soon. They are laying the ground work, its blatantly obvious what they are doing. The systems over hauls for new players, the busy work for vets. It’s coming, I can feel it in my bones. Sure, it’s a little ‘later’ than typically MMOs (which generally have their first expansion out somewhere between 1.5 and 2.5 years after initial launch – go google if you don’t believe me). However, most MMOs don’t take a year to revamp and then release in China either. Beyond that, considering ‘buy to play’ is new in China, launching an expansion too closely to the initial launch would be suicide when trying to get a new market to ‘buy into’ this new method.

But this means, at least that’s what I get from your post, the argument to defend Anet for the lack of content etc, is just because they launched in China? They should have thought earlier of that. If that’s the real reason, its a big business plan fail.

Illuminati.2431:

Vayne.8563:

What I’m trying to say is that if you make hard content you have to up the rewards and if you make that hard content rewarding, you run the risk of disenfranchising the casual player base, which I’m assuming is larger than the people who want hard content.
If you don’t make the rewards higher, then you have less people doing it and it becomes what TA Aetherblade Path is. A dungeon that took a long time to make but received only a little bit of use.

Making rewards higher can mean different things. I know what you mean, we don’t want higher rewards in the sense of BETTER stats etc. But look at SAB. If you did the tribulation mode, you were guaranteed an other skin. TA only has the TA weapon set, which drop like almost never. So it’s challenging, but you would have to be extremely lucky to get the skin. The skin was behind RNG, and that’s were its ruined. Tribulation mode skins weren’t behind RNG. You had to complete hard content, but once you completed it you knew something was rewarding you for completing harder content. And that’s the difference between SAB skins and TA skins.

So hard core guys would run it…until they had the guaranteed skin. Then they’d never run it again because it’s not efficient, they’d be out of content and we’d be exactly where we are now.

Actually let’s get a fix on what challenging means for a second. To me people calling for challenging content are the very people who’ve ruined many an open world event system by systematically trying to turn it into a raid. You didn’t specifically say that OP but you’re basically advocating for what happened to Teq to happen a second time elsewhere. we don’t need more more stinking raid types trying to convert the open world. Seriously, that is not a good thing.

Secondly, I agree there are more than one group asking for end game content however, let’s look at the history of this game shall we.

The folks who spurred on the choice to make this game all about Fractals and Ascended were really those WoW endless gear treadmill types in the first place! Arenanet already listened to you and look where it took this game! Seriously, we don’t need anymore dungeons, there are tenbazillion dungeoneer games out there go play those. It’s now time for this game to get back to it’s original roots which wasn’t dungeoneering or gear treadmills or even the power creep, it was open world events, a more solid LS based off of the original personal storyline. That’s why many of us (the majority of casuals btw) bought this title, not for the dungeons or the fractals or the endless gear grind but for the open world events and the promise to never have to step foot in a dungeon again because it’s tired and old and it’s been done a thousand times.

The group I belong to wants non-violent gaming content to help appreciate the beauty of the world, we want open world events monthly including metas, we want content that’s fun in which the actual skills of our classes can be used like Reflect, CC, and healing properly! We want combat that doesn’t punish you if you choose a different direction than most. That’s what I want at least and I’ve found a few people who are like me since their announcement to strip dungeons from production.

Vayne.8563:

Illuminati.2431:

Vayne.8563:

What I’m trying to say is that if you make hard content you have to up the rewards and if you make that hard content rewarding, you run the risk of disenfranchising the casual player base, which I’m assuming is larger than the people who want hard content.
If you don’t make the rewards higher, then you have less people doing it and it becomes what TA Aetherblade Path is. A dungeon that took a long time to make but received only a little bit of use.

Making rewards higher can mean different things. I know what you mean, we don’t want higher rewards in the sense of BETTER stats etc. But look at SAB. If you did the tribulation mode, you were guaranteed an other skin. TA only has the TA weapon set, which drop like almost never. So it’s challenging, but you would have to be extremely lucky to get the skin. The skin was behind RNG, and that’s were its ruined. Tribulation mode skins weren’t behind RNG. You had to complete hard content, but once you completed it you knew something was rewarding you for completing harder content. And that’s the difference between SAB skins and TA skins.

So hard core guys would run it…until they had the guaranteed skin. Then they’d never run it again because it’s not efficient, they’d be out of content and we’d be exactly where we are now.

They would run out of content skin-wise. SAB on itself has alot more replayability than TA. But other than that, if we would get more content that folowed these SAB principles then we wouldn’t run out of content. Only because SAB was the ONLY one with that kind of reward principle, we run out of content, yes.

Illuminati.2431:

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

Illuminati.2431:

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

Now, that rant aside, OP you need to consider that there are more than “just” the two groups you’re trying to lump everyone in to. Yes, you have the group that desires a gear treadmill, and I agree that they won’t find their home here. This isn’t that type of game (thankfully). Then you have those that desire harder, more challenging encounters; however they seem to be under the impression that this needs to be locked into massive raids, which isn’t necessarily true. You also have cosmetic hunters/collectors that want more in game armors, more legendary weapons and eventually legendary gear to collect. You have the lore hounds that desire more main story, more information regarding the loose ends left in GW1, etc. You also have explorers that simply want more zones to uncover, more hidden nooks to discover. There are hardcore wvw players that would like more maps, more functionality. There are RPers that would like to see more support for their type of play – interactable objects, more ‘town clothes,’ etc. You have the hardcore pvp crowd that wants more modes and more maps. You have the guild centric players that want more guild missions, buildable guild halls. And you even have the farmville type people that want customizable housing and little plantable plots.

Anet can’t cater to everyone, and they can only work so fast.

Indeed, and now they have had 2 years to add content for all those groups, but almost none of those groups got real content. It would be different when this game was launched a couple of months ago and we would already complain there is nothing new. That’s a whole different story. But is has been 2 years, 2 years…

Yes, it’s been two years, but they also launched in China in May. They had to make a lot of changes to the NA/EU game to make it China compatible. I’m guessing that took a lot more work that they initially thought, although much of the work they did/redid for that launch is now migrating its way back into our codebase so we can benefit from some of it as well. (not happy with all of it, but that’s a different topic)

I fully expect that we’ll be hearing about an expansion soon. They are laying the ground work, its blatantly obvious what they are doing. The systems over hauls for new players, the busy work for vets. It’s coming, I can feel it in my bones. Sure, it’s a little ‘later’ than typically MMOs (which generally have their first expansion out somewhere between 1.5 and 2.5 years after initial launch – go google if you don’t believe me). However, most MMOs don’t take a year to revamp and then release in China either. Beyond that, considering ‘buy to play’ is new in China, launching an expansion too closely to the initial launch would be suicide when trying to get a new market to ‘buy into’ this new method.

But this means, at least that’s what I get from your post, the argument to defend Anet for the lack of content etc, is just because they launched in China? They should have thought earlier of that. If that’s the real reason, its a big business plan fail.

I don’t disagree that they may have needed better planning when it came to the China launch. They are a small company, and they’ve stated themselves that the China launch took up a lot (if not all) of their time and effort, which put us on hold. I wasn’t happy about it, but I can at least be understanding of that business choice. kitten happens, nothing works out perfectly. I’ve also stated that I’m pretty they were forced to launch early, which is a fault I lay squarely on NCSoft’s shoulders. Considering how much still wasn’t done at launch, I think that should have been pretty obvious. Now we pay the price as they optimize, clean up their code, and improve upon a foundation that wasn’t 100% to begin with. Do I like it? Not really; however, I am a patient person and they have shown that they listen and they desire to make the game better.

Would I like more content now? Sure. I’d love to see a full expansion for each dragon, as well as for Cantha and Elona pop into being, but as a developer, I know it can only be done so fast. (And rarely as fast as you’d like). I know content is coming, in the mean time I know how to entertain myself until then. It’s not their job to hold my hand or lead me by my nose to ‘entertainment.’

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

Illuminati.2431:

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

Illuminati.2431:

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

Now, that rant aside, OP you need to consider that there are more than “just” the two groups you’re trying to lump everyone in to. Yes, you have the group that desires a gear treadmill, and I agree that they won’t find their home here. This isn’t that type of game (thankfully). Then you have those that desire harder, more challenging encounters; however they seem to be under the impression that this needs to be locked into massive raids, which isn’t necessarily true. You also have cosmetic hunters/collectors that want more in game armors, more legendary weapons and eventually legendary gear to collect. You have the lore hounds that desire more main story, more information regarding the loose ends left in GW1, etc. You also have explorers that simply want more zones to uncover, more hidden nooks to discover. There are hardcore wvw players that would like more maps, more functionality. There are RPers that would like to see more support for their type of play – interactable objects, more ‘town clothes,’ etc. You have the hardcore pvp crowd that wants more modes and more maps. You have the guild centric players that want more guild missions, buildable guild halls. And you even have the farmville type people that want customizable housing and little plantable plots.

Anet can’t cater to everyone, and they can only work so fast.

Indeed, and now they have had 2 years to add content for all those groups, but almost none of those groups got real content. It would be different when this game was launched a couple of months ago and we would already complain there is nothing new. That’s a whole different story. But is has been 2 years, 2 years…

Yes, it’s been two years, but they also launched in China in May. They had to make a lot of changes to the NA/EU game to make it China compatible. I’m guessing that took a lot more work that they initially thought, although much of the work they did/redid for that launch is now migrating its way back into our codebase so we can benefit from some of it as well. (not happy with all of it, but that’s a different topic)

I fully expect that we’ll be hearing about an expansion soon. They are laying the ground work, its blatantly obvious what they are doing. The systems over hauls for new players, the busy work for vets. It’s coming, I can feel it in my bones. Sure, it’s a little ‘later’ than typically MMOs (which generally have their first expansion out somewhere between 1.5 and 2.5 years after initial launch – go google if you don’t believe me). However, most MMOs don’t take a year to revamp and then release in China either. Beyond that, considering ‘buy to play’ is new in China, launching an expansion too closely to the initial launch would be suicide when trying to get a new market to ‘buy into’ this new method.

But this means, at least that’s what I get from your post, the argument to defend Anet for the lack of content etc, is just because they launched in China? They should have thought earlier of that. If that’s the real reason, its a big business plan fail.

I don’t disagree that they may have needed better planning when it came to the China launch. They are a small company, and they’ve stated themselves that the China launch took up a lot (if not all) of their time and effort, which put us on hold. I wasn’t happy about it, but I can at least be understanding of that business choice. kitten happens, nothing works out perfectly. I’ve also stated that I’m pretty they were forced to launch early, which is a fault I lay squarely on NCSoft’s shoulders. Considering how much still wasn’t done at launch, I think that should have been pretty obvious. Now we pay the price as they optimize, clean up their code, and improve upon a foundation that wasn’t 100% to begin with. Do I like it? Not really; however, I am a patient person and they have shown that they listen and they desire to make the game better.

Would I like more content now? Sure. I’d love to see a full expansion for each dragon, as well as for Cantha and Elona pop into being, but as a developer, I know it can only be done so fast. (And rarely as fast as you’d like). I know content is coming, in the mean time I know how to entertain myself until then. It’s not their job to hold my hand or lead me by my nose to ‘entertainment.’

Then we both have different opinions, which is fine by the way:) I understand why you think this way, but can you also understand that, with me, alot of players have run out of their patience?

Illuminati.2431:

Vayne.8563:

Illuminati.2431:

Vayne.8563:

What I’m trying to say is that if you make hard content you have to up the rewards and if you make that hard content rewarding, you run the risk of disenfranchising the casual player base, which I’m assuming is larger than the people who want hard content.
If you don’t make the rewards higher, then you have less people doing it and it becomes what TA Aetherblade Path is. A dungeon that took a long time to make but received only a little bit of use.

Making rewards higher can mean different things. I know what you mean, we don’t want higher rewards in the sense of BETTER stats etc. But look at SAB. If you did the tribulation mode, you were guaranteed an other skin. TA only has the TA weapon set, which drop like almost never. So it’s challenging, but you would have to be extremely lucky to get the skin. The skin was behind RNG, and that’s were its ruined. Tribulation mode skins weren’t behind RNG. You had to complete hard content, but once you completed it you knew something was rewarding you for completing harder content. And that’s the difference between SAB skins and TA skins.

So hard core guys would run it…until they had the guaranteed skin. Then they’d never run it again because it’s not efficient, they’d be out of content and we’d be exactly where we are now.

They would run out of content skin-wise. SAB on itself has alot more replayability than TA. But other than that, if we would get more content that folowed these SAB principles then we wouldn’t run out of content. Only because SAB was the ONLY one with that kind of reward principle, we run out of content, yes.

But you’re asking for Anet to design content and a set of skins for a relatively small group of players. If it’s really challenging most people won’t end up doing it. Most people will not get the skins. Which is what you want.

How is that actually good for the game as a whole. It takes man hours to design the dungeon. After you guys find a million exploits it takes man hours to fix the dungeon. It takes man hours to create an entire weapon set that would be cool enough for you guys to play for. And after all that, most people won’t use it.

If you want to know why this isn’t happening, it’s like this. There are less vegetarian restaurants than there are restaurants, because most people aren’t vegetarians. If most people were, there’s be more vegetarian restaurants. Anet knows how many people by percent run hard content and have ever run hard content.

Apparently they don’t deem the group big enough to spend “a lot” of development time on. That’s a rational business decision that most businesses would make.

It’s not because Anet doesn’t like you guys. It’s because there aren’t enough of you. Because I’m pretty sure if there were, the game would be a lot more hard core.

Vayne.8563:

Illuminati.2431:

Vayne.8563:

Illuminati.2431:

Vayne.8563:

What I’m trying to say is that if you make hard content you have to up the rewards and if you make that hard content rewarding, you run the risk of disenfranchising the casual player base, which I’m assuming is larger than the people who want hard content.
If you don’t make the rewards higher, then you have less people doing it and it becomes what TA Aetherblade Path is. A dungeon that took a long time to make but received only a little bit of use.

Making rewards higher can mean different things. I know what you mean, we don’t want higher rewards in the sense of BETTER stats etc. But look at SAB. If you did the tribulation mode, you were guaranteed an other skin. TA only has the TA weapon set, which drop like almost never. So it’s challenging, but you would have to be extremely lucky to get the skin. The skin was behind RNG, and that’s were its ruined. Tribulation mode skins weren’t behind RNG. You had to complete hard content, but once you completed it you knew something was rewarding you for completing harder content. And that’s the difference between SAB skins and TA skins.

So hard core guys would run it…until they had the guaranteed skin. Then they’d never run it again because it’s not efficient, they’d be out of content and we’d be exactly where we are now.

They would run out of content skin-wise. SAB on itself has alot more replayability than TA. But other than that, if we would get more content that folowed these SAB principles then we wouldn’t run out of content. Only because SAB was the ONLY one with that kind of reward principle, we run out of content, yes.

But you’re asking for Anet to design content and a set of skins for a relatively small group of players. If it’s really challenging most people won’t end up doing it. Most people will not get the skins. Which is what you want.

How is that actually good for the game as a whole. It takes man hours to design the dungeon. After you guys find a million exploits it takes man hours to fix the dungeon. It takes man hours to create an entire weapon set that would be cool enough for you guys to play for. And after all that, most people won’t use it.

If you want to know why this isn’t happening, it’s like this. There are less vegetarian restaurants than there are restaurants, because most people aren’t vegetarians. If most people were, there’s be more vegetarian restaurants. Anet knows how many people by percent run hard content and have ever run hard content.

Apparently they don’t deem the group big enough to spend “a lot” of development time on. That’s a rational business decision that most businesses would make.

It’s not because Anet doesn’t like you guys. It’s because there aren’t enough of you. Because I’m pretty sure if there were, the game would be a lot more hard core.

I don’t think their numbers of people who run hard content are representable. Like you said before, TA, IMO, that is a big fail. It’s one of the only hard content in the game and it just fails. I already explained why I think it fails, and in my group of players(guild, friends etc), they think it fails for the same reason I do. So I think their numbers are not representable.
And still, if they had numbers, how can you automaticly assume they don’t make the content because we are with too few. I have never heard a dev or anyone related in the making of GW2 content say something like: We have REPRESENTABLE numbers of people that run hard content, and well, you are such a big minority, we won’t invest time in you.

Like in another discussion within this topic, the China release COULD be a big business fail. Couldn’t it be possible that they fail to deliver the right content?

Illuminati.2431:

Then we both have different opinions, which is fine by the way:) I understand why you think this way, but can you also understand that, with me, alot of players have run out of their patience?

Yes, I can understand that some have lost their patience, that you’re bored, and may have run everything to death (mainly because you have more hours to play). I do ‘get it.’ However, being impatient, ranting about lack of content, etc isn’t going to make them work any faster. They hear you (they’d have to be deaf, dumb, blind, and insane not to).

I’m not saying to stop asking for new content. Hell, I’m not even saying to tone it down per se. But maybe, take a step back and try to stick yourself in the devs shoes. They are making content for us; however, treating them like horse pucky (as so many do) isn’t going to make them feel all warm and fuzzy about their jobs. And it’s not like the devs are the one’s making the business calls.

Illuminati.2431:

Vayne.8563:

Illuminati.2431:

Vayne.8563:

Illuminati.2431:

Vayne.8563:

What I’m trying to say is that if you make hard content you have to up the rewards and if you make that hard content rewarding, you run the risk of disenfranchising the casual player base, which I’m assuming is larger than the people who want hard content.
If you don’t make the rewards higher, then you have less people doing it and it becomes what TA Aetherblade Path is. A dungeon that took a long time to make but received only a little bit of use.

Making rewards higher can mean different things. I know what you mean, we don’t want higher rewards in the sense of BETTER stats etc. But look at SAB. If you did the tribulation mode, you were guaranteed an other skin. TA only has the TA weapon set, which drop like almost never. So it’s challenging, but you would have to be extremely lucky to get the skin. The skin was behind RNG, and that’s were its ruined. Tribulation mode skins weren’t behind RNG. You had to complete hard content, but once you completed it you knew something was rewarding you for completing harder content. And that’s the difference between SAB skins and TA skins.

So hard core guys would run it…until they had the guaranteed skin. Then they’d never run it again because it’s not efficient, they’d be out of content and we’d be exactly where we are now.

They would run out of content skin-wise. SAB on itself has alot more replayability than TA. But other than that, if we would get more content that folowed these SAB principles then we wouldn’t run out of content. Only because SAB was the ONLY one with that kind of reward principle, we run out of content, yes.

But you’re asking for Anet to design content and a set of skins for a relatively small group of players. If it’s really challenging most people won’t end up doing it. Most people will not get the skins. Which is what you want.

How is that actually good for the game as a whole. It takes man hours to design the dungeon. After you guys find a million exploits it takes man hours to fix the dungeon. It takes man hours to create an entire weapon set that would be cool enough for you guys to play for. And after all that, most people won’t use it.

If you want to know why this isn’t happening, it’s like this. There are less vegetarian restaurants than there are restaurants, because most people aren’t vegetarians. If most people were, there’s be more vegetarian restaurants. Anet knows how many people by percent run hard content and have ever run hard content.

Apparently they don’t deem the group big enough to spend “a lot” of development time on. That’s a rational business decision that most businesses would make.

It’s not because Anet doesn’t like you guys. It’s because there aren’t enough of you. Because I’m pretty sure if there were, the game would be a lot more hard core.

I don’t think their numbers of people who run hard content are representable. Like you said before, TA, IMO, that is a big fail. It’s one of the only hard content in the game and it just fails. I already explained why I think it fails, and in my group of players(guild, friends etc), they think it fails for the same reason I do. So I think their numbers are not representable.
And still, if they had numbers, how can you automaticly assume they don’t make the content because we are with too few. I have never heard a dev or anyone related in the making of GW2 content say something like: We have REPRESENTABLE numbers of people that run hard content, and well, you are such a big minority, we won’t invest time in you.

Like in another discussion within this topic, the China release COULD be a big business fail. Couldn’t it be possible that they fail to deliver the right content?

Most companies won’t come right out and say, you guys are a minority and we’re not going to cater to you. Why would they? Would you? They’ll do the best they can, but they’ll not usually say it.

But we’ve had comments over the years from devs from different companies, including Anet devs talking about Guild War 1, where they said the bulk of the people never do the challenging content. This isn’t something new, or something I just decided, or something I figured out recently. It’s been talked about in MMO forums for years. The most recent quote that I can find came form a lotro dev. Less than 10% of the game PvPed and did raids, not just at this point, but pretty much all along. 10% isn’t a big number to include both PvP and raids. He was talking about why they’re no longer making the raid instances they used to.

Again, if enough people were playing dungeons in general, Anet would have a dungeon team working full time on dungeons. Can you tell me why you think they wouldn’t?

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

Illuminati.2431:

Then we both have different opinions, which is fine by the way:) I understand why you think this way, but can you also understand that, with me, alot of players have run out of their patience?

Yes, I can understand that some have lost their patience, that you’re bored, and may have run everything to death (mainly because you have more hours to play). I do ‘get it.’ However, being impatient, ranting about lack of content, etc isn’t going to make them work any faster. They hear you (they’d have to be deaf, dumb, blind, and insane not to).

I’m not saying to stop asking for new content. Hell, I’m not even saying to tone it down per se. But maybe, take a step back and try to stick yourself in the devs shoes. They are making content for us; however, treating them like horse pucky (as so many do) isn’t going to make them feel all warm and fuzzy about their jobs. And it’s not like the devs are the one’s making the business calls.

I never said anything about that I think the devs are doing a bad job. Really, I appreciate all the work they do and I don’t they they are lazy or whatever. All I’m trying to say is that MAYBE, they should change their focus. If you look at the most cool content that ever came out, it was all temporarily. Maybe they should change that. Maybe they shouldn’t make a 3 week blog-hype like they invented how to travel trough time, while it’s actually some QoL changes(some of those NEEDED to be here at launch instead of years later) that could be said in 1 blog. I don’t say it’s the right way to go, but all I’m saying is that I think the road walk now isn’t the best road.

Vayne.8563:

Most companies won’t come right out and say, you guys are a minority and we’re not going to cater to you. Why would they? Would you? They’ll do the best they can, but they’ll not usually say it.

But we’ve had comments over the years from devs from different companies, including Anet devs talking about Guild War 1, where they said the bulk of the people never do the challenging content. This isn’t something new, or something I just decided, or something I figured out recently. It’s been talked about in MMO forums for years. The most recent quote that I can find came form a lotro dev. Less than 10% of the game PvPed and did raids, not just at this point, but pretty much all along. 10% isn’t a big number to include both PvP and raids. He was talking about why they’re no longer making the raid instances they used to.

Again, if enough people were playing dungeons in general, Anet would have a dungeon team working full time on dungeons. Can you tell me why you think they wouldn’t?

Because a huge playerbase played SAB, asked them to death about it to rerelease, open old worlds etc. and nothing that even comes close to SAB in mechanics, reward system etc. has come out since what, like 1 year?

That’s why I think they wouldn’t.

tigirius.9014:

you’re basically advocating for what happened to Teq to happen a second time elsewhere.

I love the new Tequatl encounter

Illuminati.2431:

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

Illuminati.2431:

Then we both have different opinions, which is fine by the way:) I understand why you think this way, but can you also understand that, with me, alot of players have run out of their patience?

Yes, I can understand that some have lost their patience, that you’re bored, and may have run everything to death (mainly because you have more hours to play). I do ‘get it.’ However, being impatient, ranting about lack of content, etc isn’t going to make them work any faster. They hear you (they’d have to be deaf, dumb, blind, and insane not to).

I’m not saying to stop asking for new content. Hell, I’m not even saying to tone it down per se. But maybe, take a step back and try to stick yourself in the devs shoes. They are making content for us; however, treating them like horse pucky (as so many do) isn’t going to make them feel all warm and fuzzy about their jobs. And it’s not like the devs are the one’s making the business calls.

I never said anything about that I think the devs are doing a bad job. Really, I appreciate all the work they do and I don’t they they are lazy or whatever. All I’m trying to say is that MAYBE, they should change their focus. If you look at the most cool content that ever came out, it was all temporarily. Maybe they should change that. Maybe they shouldn’t make a 3 week blog-hype like they invented how to travel trough time, while it’s actually some QoL changes(some of those NEEDED to be here at launch instead of years later) that could be said in 1 blog. I don’t say it’s the right way to go, but all I’m saying is that I think the road walk now isn’t the best road.

Do keep in mind that it’s not the devs (and I do mean the developers, not management) that make such decisions. Such concerns need to focused on the management, the ones making the decisions about what is made, how it’s delivered, etc. And I wasn’t necessarily speaking about you in particular. There have been many similar threads to this one, completely ripping the developers down for their work, with absolutely no regard to the fact that they don’t make the business decisions. Of course, there are those that also rip the devs down regarding the work as “simple” or “merely javascript” for example. But, I’m straying from the topic.

Yes we are seeing some changes that maybe should have been here at launch. It happens. Yes, we saw some great content in Season 1, but it went away. They have already addressed some of those issues in S2, and have gone so far as to state that S1 is something they want to retrofit and bring back. They are learning from their mistakes. It just takes….time. Just like it did in GW1.

Illuminati.2431:

Vayne.8563:

Most companies won’t come right out and say, you guys are a minority and we’re not going to cater to you. Why would they? Would you? They’ll do the best they can, but they’ll not usually say it.

But we’ve had comments over the years from devs from different companies, including Anet devs talking about Guild War 1, where they said the bulk of the people never do the challenging content. This isn’t something new, or something I just decided, or something I figured out recently. It’s been talked about in MMO forums for years. The most recent quote that I can find came form a lotro dev. Less than 10% of the game PvPed and did raids, not just at this point, but pretty much all along. 10% isn’t a big number to include both PvP and raids. He was talking about why they’re no longer making the raid instances they used to.

Again, if enough people were playing dungeons in general, Anet would have a dungeon team working full time on dungeons. Can you tell me why you think they wouldn’t?

Because a huge playerbase played SAB, asked them to death about it to rerelease, open old worlds etc. and nothing that even comes close to SAB in mechanics, reward system etc. has come out since what, like 1 year?

That’s why I think they wouldn’t.

A very passionate playerbase certainly but how do you know huge? Where are the stats? Anet knows how many people played it, and they know how many people didn’t. We can only guess at this.

A passionate playerbase isn’t necessarily a large one. In that same lotro dev quote, the dev said that though less than 10% of people ever raided, more than 50% of forum posts were made by raiders.

Kind of makes you think, no?

Morsus.5106:

tigirius.9014:

you’re basically advocating for what happened to Teq to happen a second time elsewhere.

I love the new Tequatl encounter

Tequatl is the only real dragon at the moment.

As detrimental as it would be to the playerbase, I wish every dragon was that hard without prior planning.

That’s selfish though. not everyone has 45 minutes to devote to extensive boss planning “for glory” or “valiance” or some other knight kitten.

@ Above post: True. But there has to be some consideration for the passionate playerbase as well, even if they are a minority.

Azure The Heartless.3261:

Morsus.5106:

tigirius.9014:

you’re basically advocating for what happened to Teq to happen a second time elsewhere.

I love the new Tequatl encounter

Tequatl is the only real dragon at the moment.

As detrimental as it would be to the playerbase, I wish every dragon was that hard without prior planning.

That’s selfish though. not everyone has 45 minutes to devote to extensive boss planning “for glory” or “valiance” or some other knight kitten.

Casuals have all the other world bosses (‘cept for Wurm) so I don’t think it’s unfair to ask for one or two more Tequatl like encounters. Claw of Jormag and The Shatterer in particular would be awesome.

Rasimir.6239:

This leads me to the conclusion that (many) people asking for challenging and rewarding content actually expect said content to have better rewards for other parts of the game, which indirectly forces people into that very content again.

You are already forced into certain content to get more expensive skins and items – you run dungeons, or you speculate on the TP, otherwise you are going to be poor and people like me will always be able to afford to pay a higher price for a precursor or what have you.

Morsus.5106:

Azure The Heartless.3261:

Morsus.5106:

tigirius.9014:

you’re basically advocating for what happened to Teq to happen a second time elsewhere.

I love the new Tequatl encounter

Tequatl is the only real dragon at the moment.

As detrimental as it would be to the playerbase, I wish every dragon was that hard without prior planning.

That’s selfish though. not everyone has 45 minutes to devote to extensive boss planning “for glory” or “valiance” or some other knight kitten.

Casuals have all the other world bosses (‘cept for Wurm) so I don’t think it’s unfair to ask for one or two more Tequatl like encounters. Claw of Jormag and The Shatterer in particular would be awesome.

I agree that we need harder fights. Jormag would work. I’d leave the Shatterer for the casuals though and maybe choose another one for harder content. After all, the casuals will want at least one dragon.

Vayne.8563:

Illuminati.2431:

Vayne.8563:

Most companies won’t come right out and say, you guys are a minority and we’re not going to cater to you. Why would they? Would you? They’ll do the best they can, but they’ll not usually say it.

But we’ve had comments over the years from devs from different companies, including Anet devs talking about Guild War 1, where they said the bulk of the people never do the challenging content. This isn’t something new, or something I just decided, or something I figured out recently. It’s been talked about in MMO forums for years. The most recent quote that I can find came form a lotro dev. Less than 10% of the game PvPed and did raids, not just at this point, but pretty much all along. 10% isn’t a big number to include both PvP and raids. He was talking about why they’re no longer making the raid instances they used to.

Again, if enough people were playing dungeons in general, Anet would have a dungeon team working full time on dungeons. Can you tell me why you think they wouldn’t?

Because a huge playerbase played SAB, asked them to death about it to rerelease, open old worlds etc. and nothing that even comes close to SAB in mechanics, reward system etc. has come out since what, like 1 year?

That’s why I think they wouldn’t.

A very passionate playerbase certainly but how do you know huge? Where are the stats? Anet knows how many people played it, and they know how many people didn’t. We can only guess at this.

A passionate playerbase isn’t necessarily a large one. In that same lotro dev quote, the dev said that though less than 10% of people ever raided, more than 50% of forum posts were made by raiders.

Kind of makes you think, no?

I don’t base my thought of SAB being one of the most requested things in GW2 just on forums posts. I know the forums insn’t always representative for the playerbase. But SAB is the ONLY mode that even gets asked about in map chat. It happens so often, I walk around in the world and randomly someone ask in map chat: When is SAB gonna come back. Almost ALL of my guildies and previous guilds wan’t SAB back. When I’m in a random WvW roaming group, often there is a discussion about SAB. When it was there, sometimes the lobby was even more crowded than LA. Based on those findings I find it save to say it had many players. And even if not, why do you think that with the stats Anet has about players, they will always make the right choices with those statistics?

Morsus.5106:

Azure The Heartless.3261:

Morsus.5106:

tigirius.9014:

you’re basically advocating for what happened to Teq to happen a second time elsewhere.

I love the new Tequatl encounter

Tequatl is the only real dragon at the moment.

As detrimental as it would be to the playerbase, I wish every dragon was that hard without prior planning.

That’s selfish though. not everyone has 45 minutes to devote to extensive boss planning “for glory” or “valiance” or some other knight kitten.

Casuals have all the other world bosses (‘cept for Wurm) so I don’t think it’s unfair to ask for one or two more Tequatl like encounters. Claw of Jormag and The Shatterer in particular would be awesome.

And again with assuming casuals want easy content, ugh.

Hello, Casual here. I like Teq. I like Wurm. I don’t think any true world boss should be brainless stand and spam 1. They all need some adjustments. They don’t all need to be super kitten hard, some varying level of coordination and challenge would add some spice imo.

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

Morsus.5106:

Azure The Heartless.3261:

Morsus.5106:

tigirius.9014:

you’re basically advocating for what happened to Teq to happen a second time elsewhere.

I love the new Tequatl encounter

Tequatl is the only real dragon at the moment.

As detrimental as it would be to the playerbase, I wish every dragon was that hard without prior planning.

That’s selfish though. not everyone has 45 minutes to devote to extensive boss planning “for glory” or “valiance” or some other knight kitten.

Casuals have all the other world bosses (‘cept for Wurm) so I don’t think it’s unfair to ask for one or two more Tequatl like encounters. Claw of Jormag and The Shatterer in particular would be awesome.

And again with assuming casuals want easy content, ugh.

Hello, Casual here. I like Teq. I like Wurm. I don’t think any true world boss should be brainless stand and spam 1. They all need some adjustments. They don’t all need to be super kitten hard, some varying level of coordination and challenge would add some spice imo.

You’re right of course. I think even the Shatterer should be made harder. What I don’t think though is that it should require the level of coordination of Tequatl and certainly not the wurm.

Vayne.8563:

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

Morsus.5106:

Azure The Heartless.3261:

Morsus.5106:

tigirius.9014:

you’re basically advocating for what happened to Teq to happen a second time elsewhere.

I love the new Tequatl encounter

Tequatl is the only real dragon at the moment.

As detrimental as it would be to the playerbase, I wish every dragon was that hard without prior planning.

That’s selfish though. not everyone has 45 minutes to devote to extensive boss planning “for glory” or “valiance” or some other knight kitten.

Casuals have all the other world bosses (‘cept for Wurm) so I don’t think it’s unfair to ask for one or two more Tequatl like encounters. Claw of Jormag and The Shatterer in particular would be awesome.

And again with assuming casuals want easy content, ugh.

Hello, Casual here. I like Teq. I like Wurm. I don’t think any true world boss should be brainless stand and spam 1. They all need some adjustments. They don’t all need to be super kitten hard, some varying level of coordination and challenge would add some spice imo.

You’re right of course. I think even the Shatterer should be made harder. What I don’t think though is that it should require the level of coordination of Tequatl and certainly not the wurm.

Which is what I said. Varying levels of coordination requirements, number of players, actual challenge, etc. But as a “world boss” you should never be able to just hit 1 and then walk away for coffee. Its just….wrong.

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

Vayne.8563:

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

Morsus.5106:

Azure The Heartless.3261:

Morsus.5106:

tigirius.9014:

you’re basically advocating for what happened to Teq to happen a second time elsewhere.

I love the new Tequatl encounter

Tequatl is the only real dragon at the moment.

As detrimental as it would be to the playerbase, I wish every dragon was that hard without prior planning.

That’s selfish though. not everyone has 45 minutes to devote to extensive boss planning “for glory” or “valiance” or some other knight kitten.

Casuals have all the other world bosses (‘cept for Wurm) so I don’t think it’s unfair to ask for one or two more Tequatl like encounters. Claw of Jormag and The Shatterer in particular would be awesome.

And again with assuming casuals want easy content, ugh.

Hello, Casual here. I like Teq. I like Wurm. I don’t think any true world boss should be brainless stand and spam 1. They all need some adjustments. They don’t all need to be super kitten hard, some varying level of coordination and challenge would add some spice imo.

You’re right of course. I think even the Shatterer should be made harder. What I don’t think though is that it should require the level of coordination of Tequatl and certainly not the wurm.

Which is what I said. Varying levels of coordination requirements, number of players, actual challenge, etc. But as a “world boss” you should never be able to just hit 1 and then walk away for coffee. Its just….wrong.

Well yeah, world bosses are just silly. But they’re popular. It proves that a lot of players really only want rewards and it doesn’t matter how easy it is to get them.

Vayne.8563:

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

Vayne.8563:

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

Morsus.5106:

Azure The Heartless.3261:

Morsus.5106:

tigirius.9014:

you’re basically advocating for what happened to Teq to happen a second time elsewhere.

I love the new Tequatl encounter

Tequatl is the only real dragon at the moment.

As detrimental as it would be to the playerbase, I wish every dragon was that hard without prior planning.

That’s selfish though. not everyone has 45 minutes to devote to extensive boss planning “for glory” or “valiance” or some other knight kitten.

Casuals have all the other world bosses (‘cept for Wurm) so I don’t think it’s unfair to ask for one or two more Tequatl like encounters. Claw of Jormag and The Shatterer in particular would be awesome.

And again with assuming casuals want easy content, ugh.

Hello, Casual here. I like Teq. I like Wurm. I don’t think any true world boss should be brainless stand and spam 1. They all need some adjustments. They don’t all need to be super kitten hard, some varying level of coordination and challenge would add some spice imo.

You’re right of course. I think even the Shatterer should be made harder. What I don’t think though is that it should require the level of coordination of Tequatl and certainly not the wurm.

Which is what I said. Varying levels of coordination requirements, number of players, actual challenge, etc. But as a “world boss” you should never be able to just hit 1 and then walk away for coffee. Its just….wrong.

Well yeah, world bosses are just silly. But they’re popular. It proves that a lot of players really only want rewards and it doesn’t matter how easy it is to get them.

Yeah, we won’t get me started on that topic….

I think the point is this game needs endgame of SOME KIND, ANY KIND at this point…

Who cares if it makes the casual playerbase cry? You think they will quit the game or something because anet added 1 new peice of content that you can eventually work towards doing?

Hardly any avid MMORPG PvEr thinks GW2 has any kind of decent PvE Endgame.
majority of the hardcore players left in this game are only doing 1 of 2 things, WvW or sPvP. At least its somewhat more challenging than fighting the brainless AI in pve

PvE endgame is an abysmal joke and has been since anet is clueless on reward infrastructure. They just want to focus on gemstore being the endgame, thus you will never see a decent endgame that a lot of players want.
Dungeons have been thrown aside. Ya TA aetherpath is an awesome dung with pathethic rewards. Why would I put in so much time and effort to be rewarded with the same scraps I could get from any other easy dung? That logic…..

Since dungeons are pretty much no chance of happening, I’m assuming new , harder meta events are what anet adds to PvE endgame (possible new fractals as well , but again, lol, its anet, lets be real, they won’t touch fracs for another year at least).. hopefully something along the lines of twisted marionette would be lovely and fun, with better rewards…

One thing is for sure, a lot of people are sick of casual content being the ONLY thing worked on… A lot of MMOs have casuals ofc, but dear god, the amount of bad players I’ve seen on the PvE side of things is just tragic..never knew it was possible to be so bad at such a simple game..

Vayne.8563:

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

Morsus.5106:

Azure The Heartless.3261:

Morsus.5106:

tigirius.9014:

you’re basically advocating for what happened to Teq to happen a second time elsewhere.

I love the new Tequatl encounter

Tequatl is the only real dragon at the moment.

As detrimental as it would be to the playerbase, I wish every dragon was that hard without prior planning.

That’s selfish though. not everyone has 45 minutes to devote to extensive boss planning “for glory” or “valiance” or some other knight kitten.

Casuals have all the other world bosses (‘cept for Wurm) so I don’t think it’s unfair to ask for one or two more Tequatl like encounters. Claw of Jormag and The Shatterer in particular would be awesome.

And again with assuming casuals want easy content, ugh.

Hello, Casual here. I like Teq. I like Wurm. I don’t think any true world boss should be brainless stand and spam 1. They all need some adjustments. They don’t all need to be super kitten hard, some varying level of coordination and challenge would add some spice imo.

You’re right of course. I think even the Shatterer should be made harder. What I don’t think though is that it should require the level of coordination of Tequatl and certainly not the wurm.

A dev (or forum mod) has entertained the idea of the shatterer wiping people that stand near his claws. , Iirc.

let’s hope that becomes reality.

Azure The Heartless.3261:

Vayne.8563:

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

Morsus.5106:

Azure The Heartless.3261:

Morsus.5106:

tigirius.9014:

you’re basically advocating for what happened to Teq to happen a second time elsewhere.

I love the new Tequatl encounter

Tequatl is the only real dragon at the moment.

As detrimental as it would be to the playerbase, I wish every dragon was that hard without prior planning.

That’s selfish though. not everyone has 45 minutes to devote to extensive boss planning “for glory” or “valiance” or some other knight kitten.

Casuals have all the other world bosses (‘cept for Wurm) so I don’t think it’s unfair to ask for one or two more Tequatl like encounters. Claw of Jormag and The Shatterer in particular would be awesome.

And again with assuming casuals want easy content, ugh.

Hello, Casual here. I like Teq. I like Wurm. I don’t think any true world boss should be brainless stand and spam 1. They all need some adjustments. They don’t all need to be super kitten hard, some varying level of coordination and challenge would add some spice imo.

You’re right of course. I think even the Shatterer should be made harder. What I don’t think though is that it should require the level of coordination of Tequatl and certainly not the wurm.

A dev (or forum mod) has entertained the idea of the shatterer wiping people that stand near his claws. , Iirc.

let’s hope that becomes reality.

emphatic nod

I think that if you want new content you have to wait for new MMO relase like TES . Then Anet was really afraid and we got in april patch megaserver,wardrobe etc etc . Maybe when blizzard will strike they will announce new content .

VOLTCIEAGE.3029:

I think that if you want new content you have to wait for new MMO relase like TES . Then Anet was really afraid and we got in april patch megaserver,wardrobe etc etc . Maybe when blizzard will strike they will announce new content .

Why is it so hard to acknowledge that it’s only been 5 months since that patch and that programming takes actual time? During that time they were releasing in China which kept a lot of people busy as well.

There’s a perfectly logical explanation as to why a feature patch that had less time has less than a feature pack that had more.

I think the real question is, when will there be a content patch… features are nice, but strictly QoL updates… but 2 years and hardly any meaningful CONTENT changes to WvW/PvP is sad…