Guild Wars 2

Tman.6349:

phys.7689:

Ravion Hawk.4736:

phys.7689:

Heres how the scientfic method works, you come up with a hypothesis, you test it, then you analyze your data.
Thats what he did
If you oppose his findings, the burden of proof is now on you as a scientist to disprove his data.

Using the Scientific Method while you can not even use spell check on your own post.

First, the OP needs a control character. This control character needs to be on an account with 0% Magic Find and the character needs to be wearing armor, trinkets, and weapons that DO NOT increase Magic Find. He CAN NOT use ANY Magic Find buffs except for what is given to PvE from the WvW standings.

He did not use a Control and therefore is findings are a moot point. We don’t even know his total Magic Find on his account combined with the buff to PvE from WvW combined with any trinkets he had that might have increased his Magic Find combined with the Magic Find buffs from food and/or utility potions.

We don’t even know if he didn’t clean out his bags to match what the loot would look like for both the Engineer or the Warrior just to get everyone here riled up over it.

I could do it for you all and have my bags look skewed and none of you would know the difference. And I wouldn’t even have to use photoshop. Just clean the bags, make them look the way I want them to look to get a rise out of everyone, then log out to clear the on screen chat and log back in and sit for about 5-10 min to get a chat log.

I myself see some difference and I can now restock all my materials without paying the bloated prices on the Trade Post. I’m sorry you all are losing your cash cow. Adapt or rage quit already.

spelling and the scientific method have nothing to do with each other.
magic find effects drop rarity, not drop type.
" Magic Find is both an account bonus and a character attribute that increases the chance to receive higher-quality loot from slain foes"

has little to do with cash cows.

Obvious troll is obvious…

Magic Find gear? Yeah almost a year ago. Why would you even take this guy serious? Calling other people out while he, obviously, has no grasp of the current state of the game. Elite guild leader of the iron trolls!

There are Magic Find Infusions that can be put on Ascended Gear.

Suddenly there is Magic Find Gear.

You might want to do more research before you try calling someone out yourself.

Ravion Hawk.4736:

Tman.6349:

phys.7689:

Ravion Hawk.4736:

phys.7689:

Heres how the scientfic method works, you come up with a hypothesis, you test it, then you analyze your data.
Thats what he did
If you oppose his findings, the burden of proof is now on you as a scientist to disprove his data.

Using the Scientific Method while you can not even use spell check on your own post.

First, the OP needs a control character. This control character needs to be on an account with 0% Magic Find and the character needs to be wearing armor, trinkets, and weapons that DO NOT increase Magic Find. He CAN NOT use ANY Magic Find buffs except for what is given to PvE from the WvW standings.

He did not use a Control and therefore is findings are a moot point. We don’t even know his total Magic Find on his account combined with the buff to PvE from WvW combined with any trinkets he had that might have increased his Magic Find combined with the Magic Find buffs from food and/or utility potions.

We don’t even know if he didn’t clean out his bags to match what the loot would look like for both the Engineer or the Warrior just to get everyone here riled up over it.

I could do it for you all and have my bags look skewed and none of you would know the difference. And I wouldn’t even have to use photoshop. Just clean the bags, make them look the way I want them to look to get a rise out of everyone, then log out to clear the on screen chat and log back in and sit for about 5-10 min to get a chat log.

I myself see some difference and I can now restock all my materials without paying the bloated prices on the Trade Post. I’m sorry you all are losing your cash cow. Adapt or rage quit already.

spelling and the scientific method have nothing to do with each other.
magic find effects drop rarity, not drop type.
" Magic Find is both an account bonus and a character attribute that increases the chance to receive higher-quality loot from slain foes"

has little to do with cash cows.

Obvious troll is obvious…

Magic Find gear? Yeah almost a year ago. Why would you even take this guy serious? Calling other people out while he, obviously, has no grasp of the current state of the game. Elite guild leader of the iron trolls!

There are Magic Find Infusions that can be put on Ascended Gear.

Suddenly there is Magic Find Gear.

You might want to do more research before you try calling someone out yourself.

The main point is that MF does not affect the type of drops you get, only the quality/rarity. Someone with high MF should get more rares and exotics than someone with low MF; but it makes no difference in whether they get heavy, medium or light armour, or any particular type of weapon.

Magic find is utterly irrelevant to what this thread is about.

Here are the results of my own accounting:

26 drops total:

4 Light Armor
4 Medium Armor
4 Heavy Armor

11 Weapons that my ranger can use
3 Weapons that my ranger cannot use

Not that big of a deal in my test.

Ashen.2907:

Here are the results of my own accounting:

26 drops total:

4 Light Armor
4 Medium Armor
4 Heavy Armor

11 Weapons that my ranger can use
3 Weapons that my ranger cannot use

Not that big of a deal in my test.

As I noted – rangers can use 10 out of 19 weapon types. That means there’s a broad selection which would drop if it’s weighted to give you weapons you’re supposed to be able to equip.

Ravion Hawk.4736:

[…] the character needs to be wearing armor, trinkets, and weapons that DO NOT increase Magic Find.

Ravion Hawk.4736:

Magic Find Infusions that can be put on Ascended Gear.

Suddenly there is Magic Find Gear.

You might want to do more research before you try calling someone out yourself.

Not that magic find is relevant to drop type, but the magic find infusion can only be put on ascended amulets with a utility spot, not “armor, trinkets, and weapons”.

Just admit when you’re wrong…

I’d love to get on a light armor class to contribute but all I have is a level 80 necro.
If you want I can get on: 2 lvl80 rangers, 1 lvl80 warrior, 1 lvl80 guardian.

The other characters are all under lvl40 (ele, mesmer, thief). It’s taking far too long to level them up in the ‘old’ way so there’s that. If you want though I can take any of them out for a spin.

Infernia.9847:

I’d love to get on a light armor class to contribute but all I have is a level 80 necro.
If you want I can get on: 2 lvl80 rangers, 1 lvl80 warrior, 1 lvl80 guardian.

The other characters are all under lvl40 (ele, mesmer, thief). It’s taking far too long to level them up in the ‘old’ way so there’s that. If you want though I can take any of them out for a spin.

Yeah we haven’t had any light wearers that aren’t bugged necros contribute anything yet, but whatever class you want would be fine, or all 3 even.

Ashen.2907:

Here are the results of my own accounting:

26 drops total:

4 Light Armor
4 Medium Armor
4 Heavy Armor

11 Weapons that my ranger can use
3 Weapons that my ranger cannot use

Not that big of a deal in my test.

Just to clarify, level 80 ranger, level 80 zone? Wasn’t an instance by any chance was it? Open world?

Aedelric.1287:

SKATE.1394:

See if you can guess which classes I was playing

55 Monk?

You win, end the thread now.

The thing about the OP that stood out most for me was: three rares in thirty minutes. I’ve had a good week if I get three in thirty hours.

IndigoSundown.5419:

The thing about the OP that stood out most for me was: three rares in thirty minutes. I’ve had a good week if I get three in thirty hours.

300% magic find helps, I don’t always get 3 rares per 30 min session, though.

This is just another case where someone at Anet had a pet project and nobody could be bothered to actually consult with players, as usual. Profession based drops appears to be working as intended so we’ll continue to get the “talk to the hand” treatment, as usual.

For those who think that 25 to 30 drops per character is not enough data, you are more than welcome to disprove the theory from the OP. So far he’s done a great job of presenting a reasonable method to collect data, and share it. Y’all can argue all you want about magic find and which class is better at tagging mobs but as things stand right now, it’s pretty clear that 5/8 classes are losing out on valuable drops, just because someone at Anet had a pet project.

I would sure like to know who that was.

one thing this highlights, is the fact that gear drops in the game are probably way too common, by that i mean, their main reason for existing is to be salvaged, and sold. Which would suggest they should probably have put in less gear in to the drop tables, and more discarded garment, salvageable scrap, etc.

Herr der Friedhoefe.2490:

For those who think that 25 to 30 drops per character is not enough data, you are more than welcome to disprove the theory from the OP. So far he’s done a great job of presenting a reasonable method to collect data, and share it.

I never said his theory was wrong. It could very well be right. Just that his sample size was too low to draw any solid conclusion from. And his method is solid. Using characters whose levels won’t change in the middle of the trial and in areas designed for that level. The more people present their findings the more solid of a conclusion we can draw.

It does appear that armor wise, they may have goofed up. Skate’s two trials combined had a 95% drop of armor that was appropriate for the class. He had 23 armor drops between the two trials.

My partial trial (I’ve been doing the trial sporadically as farming the same area is boring for me) has had 16 armor drops. I’ve had an 81% drop of armor that was appropriate. 81 vs 95 is a big difference. Combined it is 89%. Which is different from both trials separated. That’s why a large sample size is best. It brings us closer to the true drop rate.

Weapons have to be looked at in a different way given every class can use a different number of weapons.

Engineers if no profession loot is applied should get ~21.05% profession specific loot. Skate’s trial had him at ~42.8%. So about a 20% increase.

Warriors if no profession loot should get 57.89%. Skate’s trial had 68.75%. An 11% increase.

Elementalists with no profession loot should get 26.31%. I got 60%. A 34% increase But I only got 5 weapon drops in my trial so far, not a very reliable sample size at all. Skate’s increases are likely closer to the actual increase for weapon drops than mine.

phys.7689:

one thing this highlights, is the fact that gear drops in the game are probably way too common, by that i mean, their main reason for existing is to be salvaged, and sold. Which would suggest they should probably have put in less gear in to the drop tables, and more discarded garment, salvageable scrap, etc.

This would solve the problem. I don’t think anyone would have a huge problem with profession loot if more things dropped as pure salvage items like the discarded garment, salvageable scrap, etc.

SKATE.1394:

Infernia.9847:

I’d love to get on a light armor class to contribute but all I have is a level 80 necro.
If you want I can get on: 2 lvl80 rangers, 1 lvl80 warrior, 1 lvl80 guardian.

The other characters are all under lvl40 (ele, mesmer, thief). It’s taking far too long to level them up in the ‘old’ way so there’s that. If you want though I can take any of them out for a spin.

Yeah we haven’t had any light wearers that aren’t bugged necros contribute anything yet, but whatever class you want would be fine, or all 3 even.

Ashen.2907:

Here are the results of my own accounting:

26 drops total:

4 Light Armor
4 Medium Armor
4 Heavy Armor

11 Weapons that my ranger can use
3 Weapons that my ranger cannot use

Not that big of a deal in my test.

Just to clarify, level 80 ranger, level 80 zone? Wasn’t an instance by any chance was it? Open world?

Level 80 Ranger, level 80 zone, open world only.

Tasty Pudding.3764:

Nobody uses the drops they get at level 80.

I can’t quote this for truth any harder.

As someone who has no interest in dungeons, and only a casual EoTM’er, farming is my primary source of income.

I don’t want more leather. This is a huge change for someone who also mains an engineer.

So here is the 1st Ranger lvl80 Norn, 110% magic find, Frostgorge sound, about 45 minutes. No food buffs or guild banners etc. I did not include: junk items, crafting mats, salvage materials, champ boxes, etc.

Had some time to kill and I was curious about non-level-appropriate zone results. Took my level 80 engineer into a starter zone (Metrica Province) and killed mobs ranging from level 2 to 6.

Just to note, I tend to specifically avoid any monsters that spawn as the result of an event. Not asking that anyone else do the same, play as you normally would, just letting it be known that this is how I perform my tests. I only kill open world mobs that are always going to be there. And so far this has included a healthy mix of both neutral (yellow) and aggressive (red) monster types.

Also, I don’t think it has any impact, but might as well note, I did volunteer to reshuffle servers a few times during this specific test, however, the loop/mob type/level of the monsters remained the same throughout.

The results:
16/24 medium armor (4 zone level appropriate, 12 character level appropriate)
3/24 heavy armor (2 zone level appropriate, 1 character level appropriate)
5/24 light armor (2 zone level appropriate, 3 character level appropriate)

6/10 weapons prof spec (2 zone level appropriate, 4 character level appropriate)

4/10 weapons non prof spec (2 zone level appropriate, 2 character level appropriate)

I’m curious about the possibility of profession specific loot being more weighted when killing mobs of an equal level to your character. Every monster killed in my original tests were equal to my character’s level, both 80.

And yes, armor is obviously a more consistent datapoint, since there is an equal 1/3 ratio across all weight types for every profession, as opposed to weapons which will vary depending on class played, however, I still think weapons are subject to heavily biased drops given what I experience with my engineer who only has 4 usable weapon types.

And it’s probably safe to assume that whatever value was applied to armor is also the same value applied to weapons. At least, if I were a developer charged with implementing profession specific loot into the game, that is how I would do it. I see no reason why weapons would be considered more or less important to the overall gearing process than armor. But then again, who knows, they do seem to have a warped mindset, as there’s no reason for profession specific loot to exist in the game at all, given there’s a trading post. This isn’t Diablo 2.

EDIT: I once again forgot to include my rare medium coat in the screenshot, this is because of my 20 slot rare equipment box, sorry.

I haven’t played much, got about an hour in WvW. 8/17 of the drops were stuff i could equip on my mesmer. No champ bags were counted. Although i’m assuming loot bags don’t toward this system anyway. I’ll do some open world stuff later and see what i end up with.

My next attempt will try to avoid events, which can be difficult in populated lvl80 maps. I did participate in two of them and possibly skewed the results on the Ranger. Would you like us to include the junk items as they are in your SS?
I don’t mind including everything that drops in a screen-shot but would like to be consistent with what you are asking for.
Also I wanted to ask which is more important, the 30minute time allotted or the 24 items? I know that in order to get that many items without an event, it will take me longer than 30 minutes to achieve.

Infernia.9847:

My next attempt will try to avoid events, which can be difficult in populated lvl80 maps. I did participate in two of them and possibly skewed the results on the Ranger. Would you like us to include the junk items as they are in your SS?
I don’t mind including everything that drops in a screen-shot but would like to be consistent with what you are asking for.
Also I wanted to ask which is more important, the 30minute time allotted or the 24 items? I know that in order to get that many items without an event, it will take me longer than 30 minutes to achieve.

You don’t have to do either, most people will normally participate in events so I wouldn’t consider that skewing results exactly, just giving information as to why my results may be the way that they are.

I tend to include the trophies so people that are really interested can get an idea of what I was killing, but I don’t think it’s necessary for anyone else to do so.

And the amount of equipment dropped is the most important factor, it can take one person an hour to get ~25 pieces of equipment and another 15 minutes, but we’re after a decent overall sized sample, so I recommend at least 25 pieces.

phys.7689:

Guardians tag super easily and mesmers are the worst at tagging. I said earlier in the thread mesmers will always be crappy for farming mobs in groups.

Also I’m sorry but the dev comment was meant to placate, and she uses subjective phrases that no one can challenge.

Mesmer ability to tag mobs is as terrible anymore. If you gear up properly with traited mantras, you can dish out pretty decent dps. In fact, I believe mantra of pain is esssentially a range cleave auto attack with somewhat melee damage. As a bonus, you can chain it with the weapon’s normal auto

BTW, thank you anet because farming on a mesmer isnt as crappy anymore

loseridoit.2756:

Mesmer ability to tag mobs is as terrible anymore. If you gear up properly with traited mantras, you can dish out pretty decent dps. In fact, I believe mantra of pain is esssentially a range cleave auto attack with somewhat melee damage. As a bonus, you can chain it with the weapon’s normal auto

BTW, thank you anet because farming on a mesmer isnt as crappy anymore

It’s a much needed step in the right direction, but more more needs to be done.

The fact remains: Mesmers are still probably the worst profession for ‘farming’ type events where mobs need to be tagged quickly before they melt.

You will simply not get a hit in versus guardians, engineers and elementalists, once your cooldowns are used and you need to refresh Power Spike.

But this is sort going minorly off topic now.

Timberline Falls map completion on a Level 80 Elementalist. I opened a few chests but I did not include them, didn’t open champ bags. Didn’t include map completion items. This is only mob drops. Things my character can (technically) use in the top bag, things he can’t underneath.

It’s kind of horrifying. I mean, yes, I could play light classes all the time to get the best loot, but I don’t really want to. I didn’t notice it before because I usually salvage and sell as I go and most of my loot normally comes from chests which aren’t affected. I guess I’m happy to have gotten my fill of playing thief and ranger before this update.

Lalocat.6793:

It’s kind of horrifying. I mean, yes, I could play light classes all the time to get the best loot, but I don’t really want to.

Well, yeah that is pretty bad but what’s worse is that some righteous kitten is going to come along and tell us that you didn’t collect enough data for your post to be valid.

Herr der Friedhoefe.2490:

Lalocat.6793:

It’s kind of horrifying. I mean, yes, I could play light classes all the time to get the best loot, but I don’t really want to.

Well, yeah that is pretty bad but what’s worse is that some righteous kitten is going to come along and tell us that you didn’t collect enough data for your post to be valid.

Not by itself. But as more people post their data, the sample size gets larger. And the conclusions that can be drawn become closer to the actual percentage that ANet put in. It does seem to be skewed to a noticeable amount. Most people are getting a noticeable amount more armor and weapons that they can use. And with weapons that is including factoring in what % they should realistically get (if all weapons drop equally with no profession loot, warriors will get a higher % than engineers of useful weapons). If there wasn’t a noticeable drop, someone would have gotten below the threshold theoretically.

And the more of us that post, the closer that we’ll be able to determine what the increase % of profession loot is and if there is a difference between weapons and armor. Or between classes (as it does seem to be class specific given the fact that necros are getting the wrong increase – medium armors instead of light).

I wonder, does this affect potential precursor drops? Would hate to have lessened chance at the highest valued precursors because of my profession.