Guild Wars 2

nofo.8469:

Sounds like a bunch of jealous noobs that need soldier gear to stay alive in these piss easy dungeons to me.

Even if the warrior dies a few times in the fight, he does like triple your pathetic damage, doesn’t matter if you have 100% dps uptime at 1k dmg an attack.

Get carried more.

Yes and he does that because the rest of the party can’t dps as its ressing the warrior all the time and the warrior is counting on the rest of the group to sacrifice dps to

a.) debuff the boss
b.) buff the group
c.) heal the group

Try playing a dungeon with 5 players of such a build/mentaility and you are bound to horrible failure as everyone will just watch out for his own damage numbers. Try staying alive in those dungeons without those noobs who play supportive.

This is how I see the signet vs shout argument.

Signet build means warrior does alot of damage, kills faster, and generally able to handle 6 foes at once without much issue with the high crit dmg.

Shout build is more for others who don’tplay warrior but want warrior level dmg, while reducing warriors own dmg output.

Simply put, the whole “OMG, you are selfish” argument is more a “OMG, help ME do more damage while you do less” …

This game does not allow to easily have seperate builds for seperate areas of the game. As a warrior who plays most aspects of the game (dislike sPvP) my signet build works for me.

This is what matters, what works for a persons playing style. If you want more damage, dont rely on others to give it, retrait, refit, and re-equip to give yourself more damage, and dont demand that warriors reduce theirs to your benifit.

alcedonia.7831:

I’m just really interested in what caused his dps to get halved.

I have noticed with the shout build I crit alot less, so much so that hundred blades often completed without a single blood splattered number popping up. Where with the signet build I use its pretty much crit most of the time.

goldi.3129:

nofo.8469:

Sounds like a bunch of jealous noobs that need soldier gear to stay alive in these piss easy dungeons to me.

Even if the warrior dies a few times in the fight, he does like triple your pathetic damage, doesn’t matter if you have 100% dps uptime at 1k dmg an attack.

Get carried more.

Yes and he does that because the rest of the party can’t dps as its ressing the warrior all the time and the warrior is counting on the rest of the group to sacrifice dps to

a.) debuff the boss
b.) buff the group
c.) heal the group

Try playing a dungeon with 5 players of such a build/mentaility and you are bound to horrible failure as everyone will just watch out for his own damage numbers. Try staying alive in those dungeons without those noobs who play supportive.

Yeah, if the warriors you run with die all the time you are grouping with bad warriors. I have run in a few guild groups that have 3-4 sig warriors in it. You know why they run on their sig warriors instead of their mains? Because the runs are 10x faster.

Get real about support in this game, it isn’t that good. This isn’t a game where support is needed. Yes it helps but anything beyond one person on support is rather pointless and you are better off with another selfish sig warrior.

goldi.3129:

nofo.8469:

Sounds like a bunch of jealous noobs that need soldier gear to stay alive in these piss easy dungeons to me.

Even if the warrior dies a few times in the fight, he does like triple your pathetic damage, doesn’t matter if you have 100% dps uptime at 1k dmg an attack.

Get carried more.

Yes and he does that because the rest of the party can’t dps as its ressing the warrior all the time and the warrior is counting on the rest of the group to sacrifice dps to

a.) debuff the boss
b.) buff the group
c.) heal the group

Try playing a dungeon with 5 players of such a build/mentaility and you are bound to horrible failure as everyone will just watch out for his own damage numbers. Try staying alive in those dungeons without those noobs who play supportive.

DO.NOT.FEED.THE.TROLL

Simply put, the whole “OMG, you are selfish” argument is more a “OMG, help ME do more damage while you do less” …

This game does not allow to easily have seperate builds for seperate areas of the game. As a warrior who plays most aspects of the game (dislike sPvP) my signet build works for me.

This is what matters, what works for a persons playing style. If you want more damage, dont rely on others to give it, retrait, refit, and re-equip to give yourself more damage, and dont demand that warriors reduce theirs to your benifit.

Proving my point entirely here, you haven’t understood one thing said here have you? and you are as expected completely backwards rationalizing and ignoring argument points to suit your own stubborn viewpoint. You’re now making out we’re all jealous…because that line of argument is so often made properly right? and it’s not thrown around by trolls all the time right? lol

By all means continue to participate in this discussion, as long as you stay within the confines of the code of conduct as best you can I’m sure you’ll be let be, but your contribution to this discussion is as I sadly predicted, is based on bad rationale.
Maybe you could try reading what was said again, or looking up other points made in older posts, it could be that you’re just missing the most important aspects of team orientated content.

wildcode.5403:

This is how I see the signet vs shout argument.

Signet build means warrior does alot of damage, kills faster, and generally able to handle 6 foes at once without much issue with the high crit dmg.

Shout build is more for others who don’tplay warrior but want warrior level dmg, while reducing warriors own dmg output.

Simply put, the whole “OMG, you are selfish” argument is more a “OMG, help ME do more damage while you do less” …

This game does not allow to easily have seperate builds for seperate areas of the game. As a warrior who plays most aspects of the game (dislike sPvP) my signet build works for me.

This is what matters, what works for a persons playing style. If you want more damage, dont rely on others to give it, retrait, refit, and re-equip to give yourself more damage, and dont demand that warriors reduce theirs to your benifit.

I beginn to even agree with the phrasing of hell. All you are saying is damage damage damage. The stereotype of a signet warrior.
Your argumentation is not even worth mentioning as an argumentation as it really is again: “Me doez teh damage imba critz”.
I demand someone in a group be able to pull his weight and that means more than nice damage numbers and expecting the rest of the group to watch out for him.

Being an asset to a group means more than having the highest DPS. Espescially in a game without a holy trinity where everyone has to be sulf sufficient.

So warriors can do a lot of damage and wear heavy armour. This is every nerd’s wet dream is it not?

So glass cannon it is because you can do awesome DPS and still have heavy armour.

When you do dungeons, well, you go down a number of times, but it’s not just dodge my dear OP. It’s the combination of dodge and ressing each other that enables this. The down side of the downed status is that you can ignore a lot of support functionality.

Move fast enough, dodge whenever you can and ress each other, while auto attacking and most, not all but most, bosses can be handled. Especially if you have support players in your party already.

And cause they pwn fairly well in WvW/PvP it is indeed favored as such. You can hate the player but there is not reason to worry about being downed. And if you actually are defeated they can simply blame their team mates for not ressing them in time. Problem solved. The game allows it and therefore it exists.

Ok, so for the critics: I am now running around Cursed Shore with knights armor with soldier runes, sword with blood sigil, horn with purity sigil, and traited to heal when using shouts, convert condition to boon with warhorn skills, warhorn skills recharge faster, bleeds last longer, crit with sword, more damage with more adren, more power to allies.

Mending for heal, shake it off, for great justice, endure the pain, battle standard …

While I am liking the build … it seems lacking when fighting more than 2 foes at a time, and adren takes along time to charge so the f1 skill is not available for quite some time.

Going into the fight I hit #2, then when at the foe hit #5, #8 (GFJ), do a couple of hits, hit #9 (endure pain), and drop the battle standard … hit #3 and wait for #1 to finish foe off …

Also, I hit #4 (charge) and #7 (SIO) if needing to remove conditions, and #6 for heal and condition removal as well.

Also in answering of the post regarding signets (yes I believe in broadening ppls horizon) a quote from another thread (not written by me):

Take a look at 2 similar skills: Signet of might vs For Great Justice. Signet of might gives you a passive 90 Power at all times, as well as 40 prec if traited for (which most signet builds do). For Great Justice gives you 105 power at all times, as well as fury (20% crit chance) for about a 3rd of the time. FGJ also benefits your entire party, meaning you can maintain +525 power collectively at all times, as well as add some fury uptime to everyone. If you trait healing shouts, Not only will FGJ also heal everyone, but you can maintain 2 stacks of it a 3rd of the time due to the +boon duration. I think its pretty obvious which one is better based on that. So even in a SIGNET BUILD, FGJ IS A BETTER SKILL. This is why people dislike seeing signet build warriors. Its a huge tell that the player does not know what hes doing really.

goldi.3129:

Also in answering of the post regarding signets (yes I believe in broadening ppls horizon) a quote from another thread (not written by me):

Take a look at 2 similar skills: Signet of might vs For Great Justice. Signet of might gives you a passive 90 Power at all times, as well as 40 prec if traited for (which most signet builds do). For Great Justice gives you 105 power at all times, as well as fury (20% crit chance) for about a 3rd of the time. FGJ also benefits your entire party, meaning you can maintain +525 power collectively at all times, as well as add some fury uptime to everyone. If you trait healing shouts, Not only will FGJ also heal everyone, but you can maintain 2 stacks of it a 3rd of the time due to the +boon duration. I think its pretty obvious which one is better based on that. So even in a SIGNET BUILD, FGJ IS A BETTER SKILL. This is why people dislike seeing signet build warriors. Its a huge tell that the player does not know what hes doing really.

The thing is though, that it doesn’t bother them. They are not in that sense punished by this build, the rest of the party is. And in this MMO of not needing to team up for a lot of content, no clear roles (trinity gone, so now what?), and guild misrepresentation as I call it, why on earth would the warrior care?

I think we can add another rule to the rules of the internet,a s I mentioned before: If a game allows, it will exist.

People can come here and whine about it but the connection between skill bars, traits and gear is too complex and the pve is generally to simplistic to worry about it. So a lot of people don’t.

Why care about going down, if people ress you? And if they don’t, just blame them for not ressing you.

There are no clear roles and there’s another thread here about how the trait system is bad. You tell me if it’s a good choice for Anet to give an effect that rewards using multiple signets if that is in fact a bad build?

Gehenna.3625:

Why care about going down, if people ress you? And if they don’t, just blame them for not ressing you.

There are no clear roles and there’s another thread here about how the trait system is bad. You tell me if it’s a good choice for Anet to give an effect that rewards using multiple signets if that is in fact a bad build?

Don’t be so depressed

And at the second part, I don’t deny the value of sigil builds for leveling or single player play. Yup and as there are no clear roles speccing into a clear DPS role as a signet warrior with nothing else should give pause to think as like we both mentioned without trinity you have no tank so you should stand a few hits, no healer so you should be able to dispell yourself and no clear supporter. So you’d best grab everything you can for a well rounded build.

@wild.
Yes you are again not understanding the point we raised. The whole thread discussed the utility a warrior can bring to a group and you come up with soloing cursed shores? Sry but responding to you is hopeless and pointless.

goldi.3129:

@wild.
Yes you are again not understanding the point we raised. The whole thread discussed the utility a warrior can bring to a group and you come up with soloing cursed shores? Sry but responding to you is hopeless and pointless.

And my point is that any build I use needs to be versitile, hense why I am running around Cursed Shore killing undead, testing the versitility of the build. I dont want to have to retrait several times a day just to meet the needs of the group. If I can find a build that works for all situations I find myself in then the better it is for all.

PPL just think that heavy armor = heavy protection. In reality in gw2 difference between light and heavy armor is around 10% of damage reduction.
Guardian is made around blocks, boons, protection boon and massive self heal. Warrior is made around burst damage, good control with hammer and “burst” defense by endure pain.

wildcode.5403:

goldi.3129:

@wild.
Yes you are again not understanding the point we raised. The whole thread discussed the utility a warrior can bring to a group and you come up with soloing cursed shores? Sry but responding to you is hopeless and pointless.

And my point is that any build I use needs to be versitile, hense why I am running around Cursed Shore killing undead, testing the versitility of the build. I dont want to have to retrait several times a day just to meet the needs of the group. If I can find a build that works for all situations I find myself in then the better it is for all.

You test the versatality by trying different things. I never had trouble pulling whole event waves in orr while running Yojack build. Your killspeed will be lower but you will have a higher TTL as you are far more durable.

You do realize that you don’t just run to the mobs and hit them while you stand infront of them? Read description for last WH skill….

I used to play my warrior as a signet warrior… back in beta before I knew how the game worked.

The only signet I use on my warrior is Signet of Stamina, its the only way I can get proper end regen into my build. I’m also used to the 50% extra end regen from playing my enginner. At times I use Healing Signet, but I prefer Healing Surge.

Besides that most other signets are inferior to other utilities you can use. The extra precision from the trait for each unused signet is a waste, the crit gain is minimal and you waste half the effect of signets by not using them.

alcedonia.7831:

Xavori.3768:

I run a 5 signet warrior who uses sword/axe and rifle. Axe is fitted with explodies and rifle with bleedies to go with my traited bleed-on-crit (bloody bosses ftw!). Basically, in melee I’m an AoE machine, and at range (ie bosses) I stack bleeds.

Thing is, I also have 20 points in defense which means in addition to my signet regen, I also have adrenal regen and a bit more toughness.

So nope, I don’t go splat. Add in the fact I know how to play, and I’ll put my 5 signet warriors survivability up against anything short of true bunker builds with the advantage that I can still actually kills all teh stuffs.

but whatever you can do with a 5 sig warrior, you can do better with a non 5 sig warrior.

i’m not saying 5 sig = omg dead weight, our dungeon run is scrooooood.

it’s the combination of 5 sig with full zerkers and greatsword that is a trainwreck. and that is the build new players walk away with when they look for a straightforward class which is easy to play and deals good damage.

the only warriors i see who can play 5 signet decently (not even well, just decently) are those that have mains of other classes. like mesmers or rangers etc. and i swear they only play their warriors when they’re taking a break from their mains. because no one really expects much from a 5 signet warrior. no stress, no pressure. it’s like freerolling in a casino.

personally, i’ve only ever met ONE 5 signet warrior who could hold his own in arah. that in no way means that 5 signet is a viable arah build. he was definitely an exception, not the norm.

Heh. Okay, my main is a thief, and I spent a lot of time in WvW on my ranger so can’t really argue that point with ya. Heck, I have 6 of the 8 classes to 80, and the last 2 will prolly be there before Wintersday. I’ve even suggested to more than one guildie that playing a thief in PvE will definitely improve playing all the classes since you will have to learn how to dodge and strafe and basically be notdead via your own skill rather than any equipment or stats you might have.

One thing I will add tho is that my 5 signet warrior isn’t in full zerker. It’s worse. She’s in full magic find (power-precision-magic find on most, a few trinkets I’ve found that have magic find while also having toughness-vitality) and runed 5 noble – 1 pirate with exquisite opals in all the baubles except my ascended ring since it had built-in magic find. That said, I still pull aggro in most boss fights since I have very good DPS combined with double regen. I suspect most of my groups don’t even realize I’ve given up a few hundred DPS in order to make sure I get a couple rares every dungeon run.

The only time I’ve ever even considered changing her build was during a fractals run that hit Cliffside. Something about the unlimited spawn of lifedraining fanatics along with a boss with huge AoE made it impossible for any amount of player skill to matter. Then I read on the forums that that fractal is bugged with the possibility of becoming impossible, and the feeling passed

@wildcode

i’ve taken a look at your screenshots and you are obviously WAY more balanced in terms of stats than the zerker/signet warriors i am talking about.

you have to understand that shout builds are not about your own solo dps. shout builds buff the entire team, so while you may see a significant drop in damage (still shouldn’t be drop from 10k to 5k per 100b tho), the damage dealing capabilities of the entire party is increased, which will definitely exceed the damage you can deal solo even while maximizing damage at the cost of everything else.

the thing that shines with substituting signets for other utility isn’t just the raw effective hp total. as you can see, the forum suggested build increases your health total by about 4k which is about 25% more health than before.

the shouts also provide way more utility. you can now cleanse conditions on demand, stun break on demand, and add an incredible amount of survivability for yourself solely for the fact that you now no longer have to rely on someone cleansing conditions for you, or helping you pop stability before you get hit by a knockdown or stun. with shouts, you can even cast them while you’re cc-ed. not to mention they’re instant cast. and when traited, has a cd of 20 seconds. all of which makes shouts like shake it off even more attractive.

with soldier runes, you cleanse 1 condition with every shout as well. considering shouts like for great justice, which gives you practically the equivalent of signet of might, also affect the party, soldier runes would compound the effectiveness by not only increasing party damage, but also supporting by cleansing 1 condition from every party member in range every time you use it.

same goes for shake it off. with soldier runes, sio removes 2 conditions from yourself every time it is cast.

just by using those 2 shouts, you now still maintain high personal damage, but way higher party damage, and effective condition cleansers that not just benefit yourself, but your party.

at max effectiveness, using both shouts remove a total of 11(!!!) conditions. 8 for your party, and 3 for yourself.

that means you are free-er to select other skills without having to worry about conditions. most importantly, this frees up your heal slot for the one that increases in heal amount based on adrenaline.

in less condition heavy environments, that heal will serve you a lot better than the heal signet. and in condition heavy environments, the heal which cleanses 2 conditions per cast is available.

the best thing is soldier runes serve two purposes. first it increases your effective hp significantly with the toughness and vit stats, but they also serves as a condition cleanser.

warriors’ high health pool also help in keeping conditions under control.

in other words, one of the main priorities is mitigating direct damage. you can do that through gear, namely knights gear. knights gear give you power/prec/toughness. what this does is help you maintain good damage, while increasing your effective hp by a lot.

with ruby trinkets or their equivalent, you can sustain high damage, run an optimal burst heal, have good damage mitigation against direct damage, have more than enough condition removal and cc counters for most encounters, and party wide buffs that increase damage and cleanse conditions as well.

just because we say that non-signet builds have more survivability than signet build doesn’t mean that they can be played as tanks though. even with the increased EHP, you cannot simply run into mobs and expect to face tank them. that will still get you killed. the build simply gives you more options, and the opportunity that when you goof up, and the fecal matter hits the fan, you can get yourself out of trouble without having to rely on someone else to do it for you.

i think in general, warriors really need to understand that the game has no holy trinity. by specing purely into a glass cannon dps, you are forcing party members to take on the responsibilities of tank and healer. which this game simply does not allow. you can’t build a tank because no matter that you can take a hundred hits before going down, there is nothing you can do to stop a dungeon boss or mob from simply deciding to turn away from kicking your tomato can rear, and 1 shotting the glass cannon half a screen away. the aggro in this game is too random for a tank build.

and considering there are no targetable burst heals save guardian’s elite book skill (which is terrible and has a cd as long as my rambling posts) it is impossible for any class to function as a viable healer class as well.

as a ‘dps’-er, you have to learn to keep yourself alive. a good friend told me this, and i think it is very true: it is a bonus, not an onus.

aegis, party heals, party condition cleansers, stability etc are bonuses. it’s great if you get them. but you shouldn’t and cannot rely on them.

and that’s the problem with signet warriors. they are forced to rely on them. i’ve seen my share of signet warriors. almost all are terrible. i personally only know ONE good signet warrior. and he was good not because he ran signets, but despite him running signets.

i have no idea why new players gravitate towards signet warriors. they are one of the most unforgiving builds to use. solely because you have so few survival mechanics. you can only rely on dodge, of which you can only do twice in a row, good positioning and the knowledge of when to go in and beat things up, and when to gtfo. which means your only real escape mechanism when things go bad is dodge.

it is not enough to know how to dodge, but when and what hits to dodge, and what hits to take to the chin. management of the dodge bar is insanely important for signet warriors, which is what most new players do not understand, and fail to do. they just dodge liberally and end up getting struck by a 1hko attack which could have been easily avoided with dodge, had they any dodge bars left.

it’s fine if you’re solo in the open world and you go down. you just go ‘oh drats’ and res at the nearest wp and continue on your merry way. in dungeon runs, you going down makes a team wipe a very real possibility because more often than not, wipes happen cos people get caught in things they normally don’t get caught in cos they are ress-ing someone.

Funset.7893:

The population consist of 80% warriors, 10% guardians, and 10% the other classes. It is absolutely normal to see a lot of 5 signet warriors.

Riiiight because it’s absolutely normal to have 80% of one single op class in any title. sigh.

You know what the funniest thing is…

wait for it…

yes, 5 signet warriors do less DPS than non-5 signet warriors

So the one thing they want to do, the one main thing they care about… they do it worse than other warriors.

Gotta love it.

5 sig warriors aint a hinderance to any dungeon unless high fractals. Bad players on the other hand are always a hinderance. Ill play 5 sig and I bet i survive longer than a bad player using this lots so-called perfect warrior set-up.

Its not the set-up its the player. If folks realy cant handle the dungeons in their current form due to having a 5 sig warrior around Id say look at your own skills before ranting about others.

Btw I dont play a 5 sig build as I dont like its feel. But the short time I did to try it out, I never had a single complaint.

Lutharr.1035:

5 sig warriors aint a hinderance to any dungeon unless high fractals. Bad players on the other hand are always a hinderance. Ill play 5 sig and I bet i survive longer than a bad player using this lots so-called perfect warrior set-up.

Its not the set-up its the player. If folks realy cant handle the dungeons in their current form due to having a 5 sig warrior around Id say look at your own skills before ranting about others.

Btw I dont play a 5 sig build as I dont like its feel. But the short time I did to try it out, I never had a single complaint.

slayersdragon streamed a starcraft 2 game where he won his opponent by building only scvs and command centers to mine out all the expansions on the map so his opponent would get resource starved.

going by your logic, that must mean it’s a viable build.

don’t kid yourself. there are good builds, and there are bad builds. good players can make bad builds work. bad players can make good builds useless. but that doesn’t mean there are no good or bad builds. there are.

anecdotal evidence do not make for good reasoning.

signet build is bad, can’t even remove conditions.

heal shout build is gimmicky and equally bad, trades upwards of 30% of their damage for puny shout heals that blow all their cooldowns and are outclasses by traited heal skills. Maybe okay in WvW but makes dungeon bosses drag.

If you want to spec DPS spec DPS if you want to mitigate and support then spec to mitigate and support but don’t destroy your damage trying to do too much and you really have some form of personal stun break and a ranged option. You aren’t doing any DPS when you’re stunned.

xiv.7136:

You know what the funniest thing is…

wait for it…

yes, 5 signet warriors do less DPS than non-5 signet warriors

So the one thing they want to do, the one main thing they care about… they do it worse than other warriors.

Gotta love it.

I can relate to this. Let me elaborate on this point, think dungeons. If you have a 5 signet full zerker all offense build, you can do insane dps… while you are alive. However you do little damage while downed, and none when dead. This means all the time these warriors spend dead, which is a lot, they are doing no damage, so their DPS which means damage per second is much lower over the course of the dungeon as to get dps you most average there damage over the time they are trying to do damage… including when they are dead or downed.

In addition they are not doing what I like to call indirect dps. Which is how much damage you are making other players do. Stuff like aoe might, and vulnerability can significantly boost your teams damage essentially making you more valuable, even if your numbers may not be super amazing dps.