70g to make basic exotic insignias.
Except we haven’t had control. The impact has been negligible. I get more useful material playing the game regularly and not visiting the stability-denying, excessive-damage-dealing “group farm,” for which I can’t even remember the last time I’ve seen Lake Doric organize for it.
We have control, we just opt not to exercise it because other farms are more lucrative.
And as long as there are more profitable farms, this will not change because we obviously can afford such high prices with our current income.
So if the majority of the players are willing to pay those prices, are they really too high or is it, like in most of these cases, just a vocal minority complaining?
A: Prices are akin to extortion because of a supply shortage. The vocal minority are the hawkers insisting “everything is fine.”
This myth that everyone is making “30g/hr” or some nonsense is just feeding a false narrative to justify supporting an inflated market that the player have no control over. For some odd reason, even though T5 leather is 60% of the salvage in “the farm,” those prices have shot up as well. And T5 isn’t even the point, as the insignia cost is rooted in T6, which was 5-8% of the drops.
I don’t know what other actual facts it will take before people realize it’s a failure.
Many alts; handle it!
“I’m finding companies should sell access to forums,
it seems many like them better than the games they comment on.” -Horrorscope.7632
“I’m finding companies should sell access to forums,
it seems many like them better than the games they comment on.” -Horrorscope.7632
T5 shot up because of the marks.
I wasn’t saying that everyone was making 30G/hr. It was just the prevalent reason that people were giving as to why they wouldn’t do the farm. They could simply go elsewhere and earn more gold in the same amount of time and then buy the leather off the TP.
Anet intended for the farm to be a way for players to more consistently get gold. It does just that. It affecting prices was clearly stated to be dependent on players actually doing the farm. If players don’t do it then of course nothing is going to happen.
If you truly believe players have no control over the leather price, what would happen if the entire pkayerbase spent a day and did the farm? How much supply do you think would enter the TP? What do you think the price might end up at?
It’s not healthy for the discussion to be deliberately obtuse. -_-
Insignias are a part of the armor-crafting process to get to 500, making Ascended gear available. Even for crafting Ascended gear, the Ascended insignia requires the Exotic one. Even getting a loot box from a fractal, conversion through the Forge requires an exotic insignia.
Kuu’s statement happens to drive home the point that the leather component is entirely too costly and affects the entire playerbase.
Too costly for whom?
Almost everyone, barring the top few percenters.
Every couple of months I sell 100-150g worth of leather I get from playing wvw to players with no patience. I have 5 characters in full ascended and have max all crafting, some even duplicates. I’m really not sure why leather is so expensive but it’s kind of nice for me to make some easy gold.
This is one the issues i have with this argument of leather prices. I’m not singling Justine out, as many many more folks have this opinion, myself included. But GW2 has been out for awhile, and many vets have their characters already geared out (with medium chars geared out during the leather-cheap days).
So in the current environment, these players, myself included, can make tons of money selling everything to the less fortunate players that are struggling to gear out their toons.
So while the vets see this as a cash cow, new players, or players still trying to gear are feeling the pain. And if you are still trying to gear out characters nowadays, chances are you don’t have the funds like these vets do. So its a case of the rich preying on the poor. They vets/rich don’t want the leather cheap as it would kill their cash cow.
They need to stabilize the prices to fall within line with the other tier mats like cloth. There is a post on here that details the cost difference between the tiered cloth/leather/metal users, and leather was like 3x as more expensive if memory serves (i can find that post later if needed)..
It’s not healthy for the discussion to be deliberately obtuse. -_-
Insignias are a part of the armor-crafting process to get to 500, making Ascended gear available. Even for crafting Ascended gear, the Ascended insignia requires the Exotic one. Even getting a loot box from a fractal, conversion through the Forge requires an exotic insignia.
Kuu’s statement happens to drive home the point that the leather component is entirely too costly and affects the entire playerbase.
Too costly for whom?
Almost everyone, barring the top few percenters.
Every couple of months I sell 100-150g worth of leather I get from playing wvw to players with no patience. I have 5 characters in full ascended and have max all crafting, some even duplicates. I’m really not sure why leather is so expensive but it’s kind of nice for me to make some easy gold.
This is one the issues i have with this argument of leather prices. I’m not singling Justine out, as many many more folks have this opinion, myself included. But GW2 has been out for awhile, and many vets have their characters already geared out (with medium chars geared out during the leather-cheap days).
So in the current environment, these players, myself included, can make tons of money selling everything to the less fortunate players that are struggling to gear out their toons.
So while the vets see this as a cash cow, new players, or players still trying to gear are feeling the pain. And if you are still trying to gear out characters nowadays, chances are you don’t have the funds like these vets do. So its a case of the rich preying on the poor. They vets/rich don’t want the leather cheap as it would kill their cash cow.
They need to stabilize the prices to fall within line with the other tier mats like cloth. There is a post on here that details the cost difference between the tiered cloth/leather/metal users, and leather was like 3x as more expensive if memory serves (i can find that post later if needed)..
Not this guilt trip again.
This assumes that every new player out there starts demanding viper gear and vanilla stats are inherently unplayable.
So as for being a new player, did you not notice most runes have dropped in price? I remember having a 30 gold upfront cost just in runes.
Then again, if leather was so unfarmable, then it isn’t really a cash cow especially with people finding better farms anyways.. ..
For once you have tasted flight you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skywards,
for there you have been and there you will long to return.
for there you have been and there you will long to return.
(edited by ArchonWing.9480)
And you can buy Nika´s Exotic Medium Berserker Armor Set for 15-20g for the whole set so I dont know, why people would craft one.
Well, that’s another problem. There’s no reason whatsoever to craft one.
Basically, this problem completely killed armor crafting at anything below ascended tier. And even at that tier pursuing other options first is highly advisable.
The output of the farm isn’t enough because people are not doing it as they’d rather do other farms that give them 30G+/hr and just buy them off the TP.
Yep. Because players aren’t running a charity. Considering that the drops from that farm are subpar, doing it is actually a loss compared to the option you mentioned.
Yes, if players, out of goodness of their hearts (because there’s no other reson to do so) decided to work to fix economic problems Anet caused, everything would be well. I have no idea however why would anyone want to do that.
It’s RNG among the tiers of leather. Much better than what we have elsewhere.
That’s actually not true. The salvageable drops from normal mobs from all the LS3 maps are a far better source per effort both in quality and quantity.
Supply is coming from drops like it always has been. We don’t know how much is being generated on a daily basis
We do know however that the drops from this farm were not enough to impact the market.
Players do have control. Do the farm. Get for leather. List it on the TP. The more that do this, the lower prices will go.
That would be a community service. You can’t expect players to work so that other players (not them) will have it better.
You’re telling me that you get more leather consistently from playing other areas of the game than you do from the leather farm?
Yes. A bitterfrost farming run (berries, chests, and killing all mobs on the way) gives me better returns, for example. And it doesn’t require waiting for a zerg to gather (which may or may not happen).
Actions, not words.
Remember, remember, 15th of November
Remember, remember, 15th of November
If you truly believe players have no control over the leather price, what would happen if the entire pkayerbase spent a day and did the farm? How much supply do you think would enter the TP? What do you think the price might end up at?
Given the recorded drop rates for T6 leather from the farm, even if every player participated in the farm for a day, it wouldn’t even generate enough T6 leather to meet the current buy orders on the TP, so even this monumental effort by literally every player wouldn’t be enough to meet just the current demand.
yet theres still no skinning :/
As much fun as skinning would be (and seriously, it would work great as part of a crafting mastery line for core tyria too), I would rather Anet just un-kitten up the recipes involving leather.
but thats not fun ;-; . Also it would be the most basic yet interesting mastery line lol
I don’t know what other actual facts it will take before people realize it’s a failure.
No facts are necessary because Anet’s goal was simply to have a place where people could farm it … and they got that. Whatever actual numbers you want to use to prove it’s a failure are irrelevant because the goal never had any numbers associated with it.
I mean, you can’t argue Doric Lake ISN’T a good place to get leather … so if it’s a failure, that’s based simply on irrelevant player expectations.
The most egregious part is that people are trying to make the case that it’s bad for new players … except the fact is that if this ONLY affected new players, I doubt you would see such bleeding heart rhetoric concerning the prices. It’s complete self-interest that drives these discussions. I think the worst part is that it only gets easier in this game to get exotic geared … but the wailing only gets louder.
(edited by Obtena.7952)
I don’t know what other actual facts it will take before people realize it’s a failure.
No facts are necessary because Anet’s goal was simply to have a place where people could farm it … and they got that. Whatever actual numbers you want to use to prove it’s a failure are irrelevant because the goal never had any numbers associated with it.
I mean, you can’t argue Doric Lake ISN’T a good place to get leather … so if it’s a failure, that’s based simply on irrelevant player expectations.
The most egregious part is that people are trying to make the case that it’s bad for new players … except the fact is that if this ONLY affected new players, I doubt you would see such bleeding heart rhetoric concerning the prices.
its a failure because its so insufficient and tedious that no one runs it the drop rates are also to kitten low that i could have a faster time farming the gold and buying them.
Again, that has nothing to do with the reason Anet implemented it, so like I said is true … your own expectations aren’t met. Maybe if Anet asked you what it should be, you might have a point. I’m pretty sure they didn’t.
If it’s faster to farm the gold and buy them, do that. Anet didn’t implement the farm so it would be faster than that … that would be completely stupid of them and anyone that understands how the economy in this game works would see that instantly. None of these arguments are new and have already been discussed at length. Anet wants you to use the TP, even if they implement farms, so no, Doric lake was NEVER going to be faster than farming the gold for leather and buying it.
(edited by Obtena.7952)
but thats not fun ;-; . Also it would be the most basic yet interesting mastery line lol
I’ve posted my idea for an entire crafting mastery line a few months ago, and I don’t remember all of the details for what I originally posted, but it was something along these lines (I think)
- Higher chance of bonus crafting experience, and everything crafts 5% faster
- Small (like <5%) chance to obtain leather from lore appropriate animals when you kill them. This would mostly be ambient animals that have hides, but would also include stuff like minotaurs and centaurs
- Chance at having a gathering node “replenish” itself when you finish gathering from it. Guaranteeing another harvest (so 3 more mats from ore and wood nodes, 1 more mat from all other nodes).
- Can skin lore appropriate animals when you kill them. Skinning is not always successful (easy way for Anet to softly control how much leather enters the market from this approach), and would only use up a charge on the sickle if you get leather from it
- When crafting in bulk, the max speed for each item is doubled. So say if the current speed cap on refining mithril ingots is 0.25 seconds, this would lower that to 0.125 seconds for each ingot when crafting in bulk
Not a perfect list. But some QoL changes I would like to see made to crafting (namely the skinning lore appropriate animals for leather, and sped up bulk crafting). This is pretty close to what I proposed last time for such a mastery line
hmm i think it misses the natue of tiers the mats have: what leather do what creatures drop and from what lvl areas? Is the leather you get random? I would change the second one to also add the ability to skin on top of the drop per kill and i would also add on the forth one a 10 to 15% chance for greater quality of leather from skinning
If you truly believe players have no control over the leather price, what would happen if the entire pkayerbase spent a day and did the farm? How much supply do you think would enter the TP? What do you think the price might end up at?
Given the recorded drop rates for T6 leather from the farm, even if every player participated in the farm for a day, it wouldn’t even generate enough T6 leather to meet the current buy orders on the TP, so even this monumental effort by literally every player wouldn’t be enough to meet just the current demand.
I’ve been averaging 40 an hour. There’s 24 hours in a day so that’s 960. Assume that there’s 10,000 players so that’s 9,600,000 hardened leather. Obviosuly you can’t expect players to farm for the entire 24 hours but there’s most definitely more than 10,000.
Buy listing volume is at 180K rounded up. If there’s 10,000 players farming, they’d only have to obtain 18 leather the entire day to fill all existing buy orders. If there were 5,000 players then they’d have to only obtain 36. If there’s only 2,500 then they’d only have to obtain 72 the entire day. So it is VERY much possible.
So yeah… if you’re going to say that I’m wrong, please at least run some math first.
The output of the farm isn’t enough because people are not doing it as they’d rather do other farms that give them 30G+/hr and just buy them off the TP.
Yep. Because players aren’t running a charity. Considering that the drops from that farm are subpar, doing it is actually a loss compared to the option you mentioned.
Yes, if players, out of goodness of their hearts (because there’s no other reson to do so) decided to work to fix economic problems Anet caused, everything would be well. I have no idea however why would anyone want to do that.
The drops are pretty good if you’re looking to get leather. I’ve also been getting T6 fine materials too. It’s fairly close to what you’d get from SW and everyone seems to praise that farm.
I never said that people would farm it for charity. I was just pointing out that it takes a larger number of players than what we have for it to make a difference. to the price. Players have other priorities so we’re not going to see anything.
It’s RNG among the tiers of leather. Much better than what we have elsewhere.
That’s actually not true. The salvageable drops from normal mobs from all the LS3 maps are a far better source per effort both in quality and quantity.
I’d do the farm and see for yourself. I can get around 150-200 of the blood-warped hides an hour depending on the quality of the commander. Even more if we didn’t waste time taking breaks. This yields more leather than you can get elsewhere on the maps. If you feel differently then name the location that yields more.
Supply is coming from drops like it always has been. We don’t know how much is being generated on a daily basis
We do know however that the drops from this farm were not enough to impact the market.
Of course as not enough were doing it.
Players do have control. Do the farm. Get for leather. List it on the TP. The more that do this, the lower prices will go.
That would be a community service. You can’t expect players to work so that other players (not them) will have it better.
What I said had nothing to do about charity. It was stated that players did not have control. I stated that they did and this was by farming. Again, this had absolutely nothing to do with charity so I don’t know why you even brought that up.
You’re telling me that you get more leather consistently from playing other areas of the game than you do from the leather farm?
Yes. A bitterfrost farming run (berries, chests, and killing all mobs on the way) gives me better returns, for example. And it doesn’t require waiting for a zerg to gather (which may or may not happen).
I did bitterfrost farming while back. It didn’t provide any better loot. You get on average about 2,000 unbound magic per character. I can do all the hearts and nodes in about 20 minutes so that’s 6,000 per hour. According to a Reddit article from last year, profits from packets were going for 0.6440 and bundles were going for 1.2182 ignoring mystic clovers.
Packets cost 250 UB magic and 50 silver while bundles cost 500 UB and 1G. You can buy a total of 24 packets at a cost of 12G or you can buy 12 bundles for 12G. This yields a profit of 15.456G for packets and 14.6184 for bundles.
Seems on par with the leather farm and possibly worse considering that reddit post was from last summer.
People have done the math Ayrilana, and there’s no way you are obtaining 40 T6 leather sections every hour through this farm.
https://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/63f85n/data_salvage_results_of_7700_bloodstonewarped/
800 T6 leather sections salvaged from 7700 bloodstone warped hides. This averages out to about 25 T6 leather per stack.
This user salvaged 2000 bloodstone warped hides and got 166 T6 leather out of them. That averages out to about 21 T6 leather sections per stack of bloodstone warped hides.
https://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/5t7d1u/possible_spoilers_salvage_rate_research_for/
This user salvaged 2000 bloodstone warped hides, annd received 200 T6 leather sections out of it. Averaging out to 25 T6 leather sections per stack of bloodstone warped hides.
The data is out there. You average about a 10% drop rate on T6 leather from a bloodstone warped hide. So if you are indeed obtaining 40 per hour, then you claim that you are obtaining 400 bloodstone warped hides per hour, every hour, through DR even. I certainly never obtained hides at that rate when I attempted the farm. Do I just have bad luck, or were your numbers inflated?
People have done the math Ayrilana, and there’s no way you are obtaining 40 T6 leather sections every hour through this farm.
https://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/63f85n/data_salvage_results_of_7700_bloodstonewarped/
800 T6 leather sections salvaged from 7700 bloodstone warped hides. This averages out to about 25 T6 leather per stack.
This user salvaged 2000 bloodstone warped hides and got 166 T6 leather out of them. That averages out to about 21 T6 leather sections per stack of bloodstone warped hides.
https://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/5t7d1u/possible_spoilers_salvage_rate_research_for/
This user salvaged 2000 bloodstone warped hides, annd received 200 T6 leather sections out of it. Averaging out to 25 T6 leather sections per stack of bloodstone warped hides.
The data is out there. You average about a 10% drop rate on T6 leather from a bloodstone warped hide. So if you are indeed obtaining 40 per hour, then you claim that you are obtaining 400 bloodstone warped hides per hour, every hour, through DR even. I certainly never obtained hides at that rate when I attempted the farm. Do I just have bad luck, or were your numbers inflated?
It’s what I’ve been getting but of course I’ve not done 7700 salvages.
Let so with 20 per hour and redo my numbers.
I’ve been averaging 20 an hour. There’s 24 hours in a day so that’s 480. Assume that there’s 10,000 players so that’s 4,800,000 hardened leather. Obviously you can’t expect players to farm for the entire 24 hours but there’s most definitely more than 10,000.
Buy listing volume is at 180K rounded up. If there’s 10,000 players farming, they’d only have to obtain 18 leather the entire day to fill all existing buy orders. If there were 5,000 players then they’d have to only obtain 36. If there’s only 2,500 then they’d only have to obtain 72 the entire day. So it is VERY much possible.
Actually, it didn’t really affect the second paragraph. So you didn’t really disprove what I said. I can go a step further with the first paragraph and assume that a player only earns 1 hard leather per hour and farmed for 24 hours. With 10,000 players doing this, that’s 240K which is more than what’s currently showing for buy order volume. You’d only need 7,500 players doing it to break even.
And you can buy Nika´s Exotic Medium Berserker Armor Set for 15-20g for the whole set so I dont know, why people would craft one.
Well, that’s another problem. There’s no reason whatsoever to craft one.
Basically, this problem completely killed armor crafting at anything below ascended tier. And even at that tier pursuing other options first is highly advisable.
Well, if there is no reason to craft one, should we complain about the high crafting costs?
If you see it as a problem, that crafting exotic armor isnt the best way to obtain it, it was fixed for the HoT Exotics, where crafting is the only viable source.
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It’s not healthy for the discussion to be deliberately obtuse. -_-
Insignias are a part of the armor-crafting process to get to 500, making Ascended gear available. Even for crafting Ascended gear, the Ascended insignia requires the Exotic one. Even getting a loot box from a fractal, conversion through the Forge requires an exotic insignia.
Kuu’s statement happens to drive home the point that the leather component is entirely too costly and affects the entire playerbase.
Too costly for whom?
Anyone who wishes to craft armor for their character.
Well, if there is no reason to craft one, should we complain about the high crafting costs?
Yes, because a broken crafting system rubs players (Especially new ones) the wrong way, and they decide that if a game’s not going to reward them for going through the effort to level crafting, they’ll try to find a game where the developers aren’t completely ignorant about such a fundamental aspect of design for a game.
(edited by Sartharina.3542)
I did bitterfrost farming while back. It didn’t provide any better loot. You get on average about 2,000 unbound magic per character. I can do all the hearts and nodes in about 20 minutes so that’s 6,000 per hour. According to a Reddit article from last year, profits from packets were going for 0.6440 and bundles were going for 1.2182 ignoring mystic clovers.
Packets cost 250 UB magic and 50 silver while bundles cost 500 UB and 1G. You can buy a total of 24 packets at a cost of 12G or you can buy 12 bundles for 12G. This yields a profit of 15.456G for packets and 14.6184 for bundles.
Seems on par with the leather farm and possibly worse considering that reddit post was from last summer.
Yes… when you count unbound magic alone. Which is actually the lesser part of what you get. When you total in drops (and salvageable scraps, which have better tier ratio rates than hides) you end up far ahead.
Well, if there is no reason to craft one, should we complain about the high crafting costs?
…considering that high crafting costs are a large reason of why crafting is useless? Definitely.
If you see it as a problem, that crafting exotic armor isnt the best way to obtain it, it was fixed for the HoT Exotics, where crafting is the only viable source.
And it costs so much that it’s better to go straight for ascended with stat change in forge. So again, useless at exotic tier.
Actions, not words.
Remember, remember, 15th of November
Remember, remember, 15th of November
(edited by Astralporing.1957)
I really don’t get what some people are arguing here. That it’s OK for hardened leather which is a Common crafting material to cost 1g+ a piece. That’s far, far more expensive than any other T6 Common materials. So much more expensive than Fine materials (Powerful Blood or Ectos, for example). So much cheaper than most of the Rare or Exotic materials.
This is supposed to be a “Common” crafting material, it’s supposed to be a basic commodity, and yet it’s far far rarer than any other common crafting material. They’ve messed up this basic commodity so badly with the changes to recipes that it’s now this hugely expensive block to crafting.
The existence (or effectiveness) of various farms or people’s perceived willingness to buy at these prices doesn’t change the facts; the cost of this basic material is too expensive for the large quantities that are required for armour crafting.
I really don’t get what some people are arguing here. That it’s OK for hardened leather which is a Common crafting material to cost 1g+ a piece. That’s far, far more expensive than any other T6 Common materials. So much more expensive than Fine materials (Powerful Blood or Ectos, for example). So much cheaper than most of the Rare or Exotic materials.
Sure, why not? Why should things cost the same just because they’re in the same tier?
Crystal lodestones and Charged lodestones are t6, but one is worth a lot more. Putrid Essence is a “rare” material but it doesn’t cost much at all. The game’s designation of them, and how they are valued are two separate issues.
But I suppose there could be a point. Maybe all t6 materials should be really expensive instead. That would be balanced. Should cut the gossamer sources.
I mean, do we really want to make this literal. Sure it’s a basic material. But it’s being made for an exotic armor, which is something that’s fairly high end considering we have whites, greens, yellows. Now obviously the distinction that exotics are now considered basic gear is another story so perhaps this is a bad line to tread.
For once you have tasted flight you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skywards,
for there you have been and there you will long to return.
for there you have been and there you will long to return.
(edited by ArchonWing.9480)
- I can buy one for 42,000 Karma from Keeper Jonez Deadrun.
Serious question: I am rather new to the game and that’s where I got my armor from. Why would anyone argue about crafting if you can get stuff that is identical to crafted for 250k karma? After only 2 months in this game I had over 800k karma before I made the purchase.
Crafting your exotic armor is purely optional. I won’t bother doing it because if I spend all those materials, then it will be for ascended stuff.
Herleve – Ruins of Surmia
(edited by Faaris.8013)
This leather issue is becoming absurd and needs to be fixed, properly. Anytime you want anything ascended you need to start grinding your face off to get it, and frankly the whole game is beginning to feel like a bloody second job.
I’m not sure who is responsible for these absurd drop rates but i really hope that someone higher up finally gets the message and deals with it all before more people get driven away. Also the leather farm is an absurd joke and most certainly is not the fix!
Vini, Vidi, Vici, Viridis…I came, I saw, I conquered…I got a green??
- I can buy one for 42,000 Karma from Keeper Jonez Deadrun.
Serious question: I am rather new to the game and that’s where I got my armor from. Why would anyone argue about crafting if you can can stuff that is identical to crafted for 250k karma? After only 2 months in this game I had over 800k karma before I made the purchase.
Crafting your exotic armor is purely optional. I won’t bother doing it because if I spend all those materials, then it will be for ascended stuff.
Crafting exotic armour is the worst way of getting it, yes, but crafting is the only way of getting a lot of stat combinations and you will need to craft quite a lot of exotic armour to get your crafting level up to level 500 in order to be able to craft ascended armour.
If you decide to go for ascended armour then you can buy insignias on the trading post that are a lot cheaper than crafted insignias. These have stats like dire, soldiers and so on. They’re a good option for leveling crafting.
…you will need to craft quite a lot of exotic armour to get your crafting level up to level 500 in order to be able to craft ascended armour.
I googled around for ways to get the crafting up from 425, and stumbled over this video:
It’s 2 years old though, might be outdated. Is it not possible anymore to level up from “discovering” things by using inscriptions I got from salvaging exotic items? I hoard exotic weapons and armor I loot for this purpose.
Herleve – Ruins of Surmia
I did bitterfrost farming while back. It didn’t provide any better loot. You get on average about 2,000 unbound magic per character. I can do all the hearts and nodes in about 20 minutes so that’s 6,000 per hour. According to a Reddit article from last year, profits from packets were going for 0.6440 and bundles were going for 1.2182 ignoring mystic clovers.
Packets cost 250 UB magic and 50 silver while bundles cost 500 UB and 1G. You can buy a total of 24 packets at a cost of 12G or you can buy 12 bundles for 12G. This yields a profit of 15.456G for packets and 14.6184 for bundles.
Seems on par with the leather farm and possibly worse considering that reddit post was from last summer.
Yes… when you count unbound magic alone. Which is actually the lesser part of what you get. When you total in drops (and salvageable scraps, which have better tier ratio rates than hides) you end up far ahead.
Well, if there is no reason to craft one, should we complain about the high crafting costs?
…considering that high crafting costs are a large reason of why crafting is useless? Definitely.
If you see it as a problem, that crafting exotic armor isnt the best way to obtain it, it was fixed for the HoT Exotics, where crafting is the only viable source.
And it costs so much that it’s better to go straight for ascended with stat change in forge. So again, useless at exotic tier.
You get maybe a couple more gold at most. When farming, you’re primarily going for winterberries. Some people ignore the hearts completely and just go for the nodes. Players are also limited by the number of characters they have that can run that map.
If unbound magic is the lesser part, exactly what are you farming? It’s clearly not winterberries to convert into unbound magic.
(edited by Ayrilana.1396)
I really don’t get what some people are arguing here. That it’s OK for hardened leather which is a Common crafting material to cost 1g+ a piece. That’s far, far more expensive than any other T6 Common materials. So much more expensive than Fine materials (Powerful Blood or Ectos, for example). So much cheaper than most of the Rare or Exotic materials.
Sure, why not? Why should things cost the same just because they’re in the same tier?
Crystal lodestones and Charged lodestones are t6, but one is worth a lot more. Putrid Essence is a “rare” material but it doesn’t cost much at all. The game’s designation of them, and how they are valued are two separate issues.
Who said they should cost the same? They should be in the same rough ballpark though especially when you’re talking about a basic common material that is needed in great numbers for crafting any armour versus rare components that are only needed in small numbers to craft some terrible things.
I’m not going to get dragged into semantics here or how terrible the things you can craft with Putrid Essence are compared to the things you can craft with Charged Lodestones are but at the moment the prices are:
- Cured Hardened Leather Square 1g (10,000c)
- Bolt of Gossamer 84c
A leather square is 119 times more expensive than a bolt of gossamer. Both are basic, common materials that you need multiples of in order to craft armour. Does that sound right to you? If it does, then cool, I think we have nothing further to discuss.
Perhaps the other materials should be given other sinks so that their prices go up and become more comparable. Materials don’t exist in a vacuum and they quite often have uses outside of crafting one specific thing.
The gossamer patches are a killer, even for basic insignias. I feel for any of you guys that use medium armor.
It only costs 13g to make a Berserker’s Intricate Gossamer Insignia. Not 70g.
You only wear boots into battle or something?
You kind of need 6 insignias for a set. Which would be 78 gold if my math isnt wonky. So yeah, not 70g. More.
Perhaps the other materials should be given other sinks so that their prices go up and become more comparable. Materials don’t exist in a vacuum and they quite often have uses outside of crafting one specific thing.
The winner of the Worst Suggestion of 2017 award is… I’m having a little trouble with the envelope…
Perhaps the other materials should be given other sinks so that their prices go up and become more comparable. Materials don’t exist in a vacuum and they quite often have uses outside of crafting one specific thing.
The winner of the Worst Suggestion of 2017 award is… I’m having a little trouble with the envelope…
Materials don’t exist solely for exotic armor crafting. You were complaining about how they were not the same when it comes to cost. Adding more sinks to those that have relatively little use fixes that. On the plus side, this would mean you can sell any excess of the others if you need more of a specific one.
Perhaps the other materials should be given other sinks so that their prices go up and become more comparable. Materials don’t exist in a vacuum and they quite often have uses outside of crafting one specific thing.
The winner of the Worst Suggestion of 2017 award is… I’m having a little trouble with the envelope…
Materials don’t exist solely for exotic armor crafting. You were complaining about how they were not the same when it comes to cost. Adding more sinks to those that have relatively little use fixes that. On the plus side, this would mean you can sell any excess of the others if you need more of a specific one.
Oh. I thought you were being facetious. You seem to have missed that I was complaining not so much that was a different price but rather that one was so much more expensive than the other T6 common mats, that is the actual issue I’m complaining about. That it’s ridiculously expensive compared to the other T6 common mats.
I mean surely even the most cursory glance over my posts in this thread would tell you that. You know, the ones where I mentioned how expensive it is to craft armour instead of obtaining it through other means? The ones where I mentioned that the high price of leather was the problem?
I suspect that you actually knew that though. Hopefully, you’re still being facetious.
Perhaps the other materials should be given other sinks so that their prices go up and become more comparable. Materials don’t exist in a vacuum and they quite often have uses outside of crafting one specific thing.
The winner of the Worst Suggestion of 2017 award is… I’m having a little trouble with the envelope…
Materials don’t exist solely for exotic armor crafting. You were complaining about how they were not the same when it comes to cost. Adding more sinks to those that have relatively little use fixes that. On the plus side, this would mean you can sell any excess of the others if you need more of a specific one.
Oh. I thought you were being facetious. You seem to have missed that I was complaining not so much that was a different price but rather that one was so much more expensive than the other T6 common mats, that is the actual issue I’m complaining about. That it’s ridiculously expensive compared to the other T6 common mats.
I mean surely even the most cursory glance over my posts in this thread would tell you that. You know, the ones where I mentioned how expensive it is to craft armour instead of obtaining it through other means? The ones where I mentioned that the high price of leather was the problem?
I suspect that you actually knew that though. Hopefully, you’re still being facetious.
And if the other materials were given comparable sinks, that difference would change. It would no longer be more expensive than the other T6 materials.
What I bolded are all pretty much the same thing.
Perhaps the other materials should be given other sinks so that their prices go up and become more comparable. Materials don’t exist in a vacuum and they quite often have uses outside of crafting one specific thing.
The winner of the Worst Suggestion of 2017 award is… I’m having a little trouble with the envelope…
Materials don’t exist solely for exotic armor crafting. You were complaining about how they were not the same when it comes to cost. Adding more sinks to those that have relatively little use fixes that. On the plus side, this would mean you can sell any excess of the others if you need more of a specific one.
Oh. I thought you were being facetious. You seem to have missed that I was complaining not so much that was a different price but rather that one was so much more expensive than the other T6 common mats, that is the actual issue I’m complaining about. That it’s ridiculously expensive compared to the other T6 common mats.
I mean surely even the most cursory glance over my posts in this thread would tell you that. You know, the ones where I mentioned how expensive it is to craft armour instead of obtaining it through other means? The ones where I mentioned that the high price of leather was the problem?
I suspect that you actually knew that though. Hopefully, you’re still being facetious.
And if the other materials were given comparable sinks, that difference would change. It would no longer be more expensive than the other T6 materials.
What I bolded are all pretty much the same thing.
Right. Gotcha.
I don’t really think this is about players not having money for it. It’s about the discrepancy between light/heavy and medium. Why should it cost more for a medium armored character to get geared? Aren’t we all supposed to be on a level playing field.
Have you calculated the actual cost differences? Not saying they’re the same but I’ve yet to see anyone in any of these threads to do a cost comparison.
A certain type of item makes it very easy to compile this data if you look at certain sites.
http://www.gw2spidy.com/search/of%20knight%27s/2?rarity_filter=5&min_level=&max_level=
http://www.gw2spidy.com/recipe/2796
http://www.gw2spidy.com/recipe/1956
http://www.gw2spidy.com/recipe/1099Did you notice the difference in leather consumption between medium and heavy armor is 78 vs 60 pieces of Cured Hardened Leather Squares?
I guess our armor are mostly made of patches…Ascended price differences are nastier, Even though they don’t use t6 leather materials.
Spidy’s not a good source to use for leather tho because they haven’t updated their recipes to show that thick leather is four and hardened leather is three for each cured. Because their databases haven’t been updated in something like two years.
People have done the math Ayrilana, and there’s no way you are obtaining 40 T6 leather sections every hour through this farm.
https://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/63f85n/data_salvage_results_of_7700_bloodstonewarped/
800 T6 leather sections salvaged from 7700 bloodstone warped hides. This averages out to about 25 T6 leather per stack.
This user salvaged 2000 bloodstone warped hides and got 166 T6 leather out of them. That averages out to about 21 T6 leather sections per stack of bloodstone warped hides.
https://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/5t7d1u/possible_spoilers_salvage_rate_research_for/
This user salvaged 2000 bloodstone warped hides, annd received 200 T6 leather sections out of it. Averaging out to 25 T6 leather sections per stack of bloodstone warped hides.
The data is out there. You average about a 10% drop rate on T6 leather from a bloodstone warped hide. So if you are indeed obtaining 40 per hour, then you claim that you are obtaining 400 bloodstone warped hides per hour, every hour, through DR even. I certainly never obtained hides at that rate when I attempted the farm. Do I just have bad luck, or were your numbers inflated?
It’s what I’ve been getting but of course I’ve not done 7700 salvages.
Let so with 20 per hour and redo my numbers.
I’ve been averaging 20 an hour. There’s 24 hours in a day so that’s 480. Assume that there’s 10,000 players so that’s 4,800,000 hardened leather. Obviously you can’t expect players to farm for the entire 24 hours but there’s most definitely more than 10,000.
Buy listing volume is at 180K rounded up. If there’s 10,000 players farming, they’d only have to obtain 18 leather the entire day to fill all existing buy orders. If there were 5,000 players then they’d have to only obtain 36. If there’s only 2,500 then they’d only have to obtain 72 the entire day. So it is VERY much possible.
Actually, it didn’t really affect the second paragraph. So you didn’t really disprove what I said. I can go a step further with the first paragraph and assume that a player only earns 1 hard leather per hour and farmed for 24 hours. With 10,000 players doing this, that’s 240K which is more than what’s currently showing for buy order volume. You’d only need 7,500 players doing it to break even.
lol @ “only”
says we’d need 3/4ths of 10,000 ppl to do something and then uses the word “only”
People have done the math Ayrilana, and there’s no way you are obtaining 40 T6 leather sections every hour through this farm.
https://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/63f85n/data_salvage_results_of_7700_bloodstonewarped/
800 T6 leather sections salvaged from 7700 bloodstone warped hides. This averages out to about 25 T6 leather per stack.
This user salvaged 2000 bloodstone warped hides and got 166 T6 leather out of them. That averages out to about 21 T6 leather sections per stack of bloodstone warped hides.
https://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/5t7d1u/possible_spoilers_salvage_rate_research_for/
This user salvaged 2000 bloodstone warped hides, annd received 200 T6 leather sections out of it. Averaging out to 25 T6 leather sections per stack of bloodstone warped hides.
The data is out there. You average about a 10% drop rate on T6 leather from a bloodstone warped hide. So if you are indeed obtaining 40 per hour, then you claim that you are obtaining 400 bloodstone warped hides per hour, every hour, through DR even. I certainly never obtained hides at that rate when I attempted the farm. Do I just have bad luck, or were your numbers inflated?
It’s what I’ve been getting but of course I’ve not done 7700 salvages.
Let so with 20 per hour and redo my numbers.
I’ve been averaging 20 an hour. There’s 24 hours in a day so that’s 480. Assume that there’s 10,000 players so that’s 4,800,000 hardened leather. Obviously you can’t expect players to farm for the entire 24 hours but there’s most definitely more than 10,000.
Buy listing volume is at 180K rounded up. If there’s 10,000 players farming, they’d only have to obtain 18 leather the entire day to fill all existing buy orders. If there were 5,000 players then they’d have to only obtain 36. If there’s only 2,500 then they’d only have to obtain 72 the entire day. So it is VERY much possible.
Actually, it didn’t really affect the second paragraph. So you didn’t really disprove what I said. I can go a step further with the first paragraph and assume that a player only earns 1 hard leather per hour and farmed for 24 hours. With 10,000 players doing this, that’s 240K which is more than what’s currently showing for buy order volume. You’d only need 7,500 players doing it to break even.
lol @ “only”
says we’d need 3/4ths of 10,000 ppl to do something and then uses the word “only”
Not to mention, this doesn’t factor in DR that affect the farm at all. So you can expect the first hour to go fairly well for players, and then the amounts of leather collected will drop dramatically.
People have done the math Ayrilana, and there’s no way you are obtaining 40 T6 leather sections every hour through this farm.
https://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/63f85n/data_salvage_results_of_7700_bloodstonewarped/
800 T6 leather sections salvaged from 7700 bloodstone warped hides. This averages out to about 25 T6 leather per stack.
This user salvaged 2000 bloodstone warped hides and got 166 T6 leather out of them. That averages out to about 21 T6 leather sections per stack of bloodstone warped hides.
https://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/5t7d1u/possible_spoilers_salvage_rate_research_for/
This user salvaged 2000 bloodstone warped hides, annd received 200 T6 leather sections out of it. Averaging out to 25 T6 leather sections per stack of bloodstone warped hides.
The data is out there. You average about a 10% drop rate on T6 leather from a bloodstone warped hide. So if you are indeed obtaining 40 per hour, then you claim that you are obtaining 400 bloodstone warped hides per hour, every hour, through DR even. I certainly never obtained hides at that rate when I attempted the farm. Do I just have bad luck, or were your numbers inflated?
It’s what I’ve been getting but of course I’ve not done 7700 salvages.
Let so with 20 per hour and redo my numbers.
I’ve been averaging 20 an hour. There’s 24 hours in a day so that’s 480. Assume that there’s 10,000 players so that’s 4,800,000 hardened leather. Obviously you can’t expect players to farm for the entire 24 hours but there’s most definitely more than 10,000.
Buy listing volume is at 180K rounded up. If there’s 10,000 players farming, they’d only have to obtain 18 leather the entire day to fill all existing buy orders. If there were 5,000 players then they’d have to only obtain 36. If there’s only 2,500 then they’d only have to obtain 72 the entire day. So it is VERY much possible.
Actually, it didn’t really affect the second paragraph. So you didn’t really disprove what I said. I can go a step further with the first paragraph and assume that a player only earns 1 hard leather per hour and farmed for 24 hours. With 10,000 players doing this, that’s 240K which is more than what’s currently showing for buy order volume. You’d only need 7,500 players doing it to break even.
lol @ “only”
says we’d need 3/4ths of 10,000 ppl to do something and then uses the word “only”
Not to mention, this doesn’t factor in DR that affect the farm at all. So you can expect the first hour to go fairly well for players, and then the amounts of leather collected will drop dramatically.
You hit DR at about 4 hours. It can easily be reset by hopping to another map and doing a few events.
(edited by Ayrilana.1396)
People have done the math Ayrilana, and there’s no way you are obtaining 40 T6 leather sections every hour through this farm.
https://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/63f85n/data_salvage_results_of_7700_bloodstonewarped/
800 T6 leather sections salvaged from 7700 bloodstone warped hides. This averages out to about 25 T6 leather per stack.
This user salvaged 2000 bloodstone warped hides and got 166 T6 leather out of them. That averages out to about 21 T6 leather sections per stack of bloodstone warped hides.
https://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/5t7d1u/possible_spoilers_salvage_rate_research_for/
This user salvaged 2000 bloodstone warped hides, annd received 200 T6 leather sections out of it. Averaging out to 25 T6 leather sections per stack of bloodstone warped hides.
The data is out there. You average about a 10% drop rate on T6 leather from a bloodstone warped hide. So if you are indeed obtaining 40 per hour, then you claim that you are obtaining 400 bloodstone warped hides per hour, every hour, through DR even. I certainly never obtained hides at that rate when I attempted the farm. Do I just have bad luck, or were your numbers inflated?
It’s what I’ve been getting but of course I’ve not done 7700 salvages.
Let so with 20 per hour and redo my numbers.
I’ve been averaging 20 an hour. There’s 24 hours in a day so that’s 480. Assume that there’s 10,000 players so that’s 4,800,000 hardened leather. Obviously you can’t expect players to farm for the entire 24 hours but there’s most definitely more than 10,000.
Buy listing volume is at 180K rounded up. If there’s 10,000 players farming, they’d only have to obtain 18 leather the entire day to fill all existing buy orders. If there were 5,000 players then they’d have to only obtain 36. If there’s only 2,500 then they’d only have to obtain 72 the entire day. So it is VERY much possible.
Actually, it didn’t really affect the second paragraph. So you didn’t really disprove what I said. I can go a step further with the first paragraph and assume that a player only earns 1 hard leather per hour and farmed for 24 hours. With 10,000 players doing this, that’s 240K which is more than what’s currently showing for buy order volume. You’d only need 7,500 players doing it to break even.
lol @ “only”
says we’d need 3/4ths of 10,000 ppl to do something and then uses the word “only”
There a reason to pick out that word when it doesn’t impact what I said?
I’m getting the whole “I’m not going to refute what you said but instead pick out a word and argue against its usage” vibe.
(edited by Ayrilana.1396)
I really don’t get what some people are arguing here. That it’s OK for hardened leather which is a Common crafting material to cost 1g+ a piece. That’s far, far more expensive than any other T6 Common materials. So much more expensive than Fine materials (Powerful Blood or Ectos, for example). So much cheaper than most of the Rare or Exotic materials.
Sure, why not? Why should things cost the same just because they’re in the same tier?
Crystal lodestones and Charged lodestones are t6, but one is worth a lot more. Putrid Essence is a “rare” material but it doesn’t cost much at all. The game’s designation of them, and how they are valued are two separate issues.Who said they should cost the same? They should be in the same rough ballpark though especially when you’re talking about a basic common material that is needed in great numbers for crafting any armour versus rare components that are only needed in small numbers to craft some terrible things.
I’m not going to get dragged into semantics…
You sorta did…. Prices similar, same is a hair’s breath of difference. If something costs 4.0 silver and another costs 4.01 silver, they’re obviously not the “same” but pointing that out is splitting hairs. And of course, labeling it as basic crafting materials is a matter of semantics too. (Ignoring that it’s the highest tier). My point is the designation isn’t that important.
Obviously if prices are [i]similar]/i], my point stays the same. Why should they stay similar?
Anyhow, you can just repeat that same argument, but it’s pointless if people won’t accept this premise.
If I wanted to be pedantic, I would also argue that there’s not even any reason that suggests that options in this game should be equal, either. Some choices are going to be better than others. 42000 karma for most exotic stats available is actually a severe loss considering what karma can be converted for. Should we reduce it to 15k? And even considering all that, crafting does something other methods cannot do. It levels the crafting profession as a route to ascended armor. There are more efficient methods, but it doesn’t change the fact that there are benefits beyond acquiring armor that aren’t found elsewhere.
For once you have tasted flight you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skywards,
for there you have been and there you will long to return.
for there you have been and there you will long to return.
(edited by ArchonWing.9480)
You’re right there’s no point in trying to continue this discussion when the basic situation is I think some material is too expensive and you don’t.
Neither of us are likely to change our position. You’re apparently quite happy with the price, I’m not.
You’re right there’s no point in trying to continue this discussion when the basic situation is I think some material is too expensive and you don’t.
Neither of us are likely to change our position. You’re apparently quite happy with the price, I’m not.
The problem with the idea that something is ‘too expensive’ is that it makes no sense. Take a car … don’t care what make or model … is it too expensive? For some people, it could be but for some others, it might not. The point … ‘too expensive’ is not an objective assessment of hardened leather price.
Therefore, to make an objective problem statement using it makes no sense whatsoever. If you have to ask WHO it’s too expensive for, and have no target audience, then how can you even implement a sensible solution to that? You can’t. The whole approach that everyone takes to complain about this simply demonstrates exactly what I’m saying here.
Anet has done exactly the correct thing here; allow players to take more control of the market by introducing more bandwidth to farm. The market will dictate the price all goods in it; it’s completely self-regulating. In otherwords, Anet has washed their hands and put the pricing in control of the players. Appealing to ’it’s too expensive’ has no impact on an entity that WANTS a self-regulating market to exist.
Too expensive for me, of course, that’s why I said I think it’s too expensive.
I’m a seasoned player, been here since the betas and I think it’s too expensive for crafting to be a practical option for creating exotic armour. I either get my exotics from the tp or some other methods, not crafting. Saying ArenaNet had put pricing in the hands of the players conveniently ignores that they created the current situation and then washed their hands of the matter.
The problem with the idea that something is ‘too expensive’ is that it makes no sense. Take a car … don’t care what make or model … is it too expensive? For some people, it could be but for some others, it might not. The point … ‘too expensive’ is not an objective assessment of hardened leather price.
Therefore, to make an objective problem statement using it makes no sense whatsoever. If you have to ask WHO it’s too expensive for, and have no target audience, then how can you even implement a sensible solution to that? You can’t. The whole approach that everyone takes to complain about this simply demonstrates exactly what I’m saying here.
Anet has done exactly the correct thing here; allow players to take more control of the market by introducing more bandwidth to farm. The market will dictate the price all goods in it; it’s completely self-regulating. In otherwords, Anet has washed their hands and put the pricing in control of the players. Appealing to ’it’s too expensive’ has no impact on an entity that WANTS a self-regulating market to exist.
I love analogies. Let’s try this one out. Car market is OK, if anything cars are “too affordable” but who knows what that means right because it’s all objective. But the government looks and says “wow, this is way too affordable, every car needs to be gold plated from now on”. Prices for cars sky rocket. Now the government says “you know what, we are going to be ‘hands off’ on the economy, let’s just see what happens to car prices”. Car prices continue to sky rocket because they need to be gold plated.
Finally the government steps in and says “we’ve mostly been hands off but we’re going to open up a gold mine on government land, feel free to come here and mine gold, it only costs $1500/oz and you can take out as much as you want”. A lot of people say “I’m not doing that, I can get it for $1271/oz from China”. Some people use the gold mine though because they just like to mine their own gold. Car prices continue to skyrocket.
But don’t worry, the Government is “hands off” now. It will definitely equalize… right?
Lol while a bit hyperbolic, you summed up the situation with leather pretty well in my opinion.
Nah, this is more like people wanting gold plated cars, and saying that the government should subsidize them for making their own gold plated cars, when regular cars are still available. Also, there are some gold plated cars for sale which cost less than the cost of making it, but that’s not okay either. They want precisely that one over there with the extra chrome. Then they also go off on how this prevents new car owners from getting a car at all because they might meet people that will kick them out of the house if the car contains 5% less gold than what they find acceptable, and thus they should lower the price of gold.
Now, the government might have artificially manipulated the supply of gold, but then the scope of the problem changes….
For once you have tasted flight you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skywards,
for there you have been and there you will long to return.
for there you have been and there you will long to return.
(edited by ArchonWing.9480)
The problem with the idea that something is ‘too expensive’ is that it makes no sense. Take a car … don’t care what make or model … is it too expensive? For some people, it could be but for some others, it might not. The point … ‘too expensive’ is not an objective assessment of hardened leather price.
Therefore, to make an objective problem statement using it makes no sense whatsoever. If you have to ask WHO it’s too expensive for, and have no target audience, then how can you even implement a sensible solution to that? You can’t. The whole approach that everyone takes to complain about this simply demonstrates exactly what I’m saying here.
Anet has done exactly the correct thing here; allow players to take more control of the market by introducing more bandwidth to farm. The market will dictate the price all goods in it; it’s completely self-regulating. In otherwords, Anet has washed their hands and put the pricing in control of the players. Appealing to ’it’s too expensive’ has no impact on an entity that WANTS a self-regulating market to exist.
I love analogies. Let’s try this one out. Car market is OK, if anything cars are “too affordable” but who knows what that means right because it’s all objective. But the government looks and says “wow, this is way too affordable, every car needs to be gold plated from now on”. Prices for cars sky rocket. Now the government says “you know what, we are going to be ‘hands off’ on the economy, let’s just see what happens to car prices”. Car prices continue to sky rocket because they need to be gold plated.
Finally the government steps in and says “we’ve mostly been hands off but we’re going to open up a gold mine on government land, feel free to come here and mine gold, it only costs $1500/oz and you can take out as much as you want”. A lot of people say “I’m not doing that, I can get it for $1271/oz from China”. Some people use the gold mine though because they just like to mine their own gold. Car prices continue to skyrocket.
But don’t worry, the Government is “hands off” now. It will definitely equalize… right?
Analogy would only work if there was only one car model. Like armor tiers, cars come in a variety of tiers too. It’d be like the difference between a Ford > Kia > Audi > Mercedes > Porsche as the difference between blues, greens, rares, exotics, and ascended. Even then, car features may be a better thing to use as that’s closer to stat combos of armor.
(edited by Ayrilana.1396)