Guild Wars 2

Ashen.2907:

Vayne.8563:

Trying to throw logic at an idea that will fix a problem doesn’t cut it.

Perhaps, but he was attempting to throw logic at an idea that would not fix a problem.

How would it not fix the problem?

Vayne.8563:

I’m proposing a solution to a perceived problem.

In your opinion, is berserker’s gear an actual problem, Vayne? Because if it’s just a perceived problem, then the solution should be to change peoples’ perception.

haviz.1340:

Aberrant.6749:

But… it’s scaled for rares… why would you need ascended for a dungeon?

Where does it say so?

A dev stated it looonnnggg ago, I’m not going to go through all of their old posts to link it lol. If anyone happens to have it saved and comes across this, please link it.

(I’m sure fractals are an exception to this though… they weren’t in the game at that time.)

haviz.1340:

Vayne.8563:

You mean like players can be knocked off cliffs and enemies can’t. It’s a game…I’m proposing a solution to a perceived problem.

Trying to throw logic at an idea that will fix a problem doesn’t cut it.

It’s not a problem but a symptom and you’re not proposing anything, you’re just trolling. And it’s a breach of Code of Conduct.

• Do not submit “trolling” posts or threads. We define “trolling” as commenting in a manner intended to elicit overly strong negative and emotional responses for mere shock value, attempting to derail threads, persistently posting off-topic, or engaging in personal attacks on another forum member. Accounts made with the sole intent to “troll” will be terminated.

First of all, the problem is a real one if the forums are to be believed. There have been far too many posts about it. If the game is structured so that berserker gear is the only logical/reasonable choice, that’s a problem with the game. I merely suggested a possible solution.

It would allow players soloing to run around in whatever they want, but wouldn’t allow the stacking of berserkers on a boss, thus trivializing it.

Since then, other people have suggested other things that would work including damage reflection…but it would have to be more than just a small percentage. The damage reflection would have to be serious enough to do possibly cause a wipe (or the problem will remain).

Vayne.8563:

serialkicker.5274:

Wukunlin.8461:

in which case healers should heal enemies too

In which case enemies should damage their allies too or should magic just work for players?

You mean like players can be knocked off cliffs and enemies can’t. It’s a game…I’m proposing a solution to a perceived problem.

Trying to throw logic at an idea that will fix a problem doesn’t cut it.

No, i mean if you want immersion – players damaging players, then enemies should damage their allies (our enemies) too. Like enemy swinging sword all over the place should hit and damage his ally too.

Also, you’re proposing a solution to what problem? Are you saying it’s a problem that some people like playing with all offensive team? It’s their choice. You’re not in that team, so why would you care? And some of those people think other builds are useless… Who’s right here? No one. You all have your own opinion and you can all play however you like.
Of course it would be nice to see all classes and builds being perfectly viable in most content, but unfortunately this isn’t the case. You want to “punish” players that play certain playstyle because they like it and they think it’s effectiv, but you don’t like it…
Well, it’s up to anet to properly balance classes.
Anyway, i’m not saying all berserker is the way to go to play this game, i’m saying don’t “hate” on people who play this way, they have the right to play their way as much as you have to play your way.

Aberrant.6749:

A dev stated it looonnnggg ago, I’m not going to go through all of their old posts to link it lol. If anyone happens to have it saved and comes across this, please link it.

(I’m sure fractals are an exception to this though… they weren’t in the game at that time.)

Funny, because scaling works in such way that exotics are supposed to be used from level 60. Rares are for AC, CM and TA while exotics for the rest.

Vayne.8563:

Ashen.2907:

Vayne.8563:

Trying to throw logic at an idea that will fix a problem doesn’t cut it.

Perhaps, but he was attempting to throw logic at an idea that would not fix a problem.

How would it not fix the problem?

Your solution, and I think it is very interesting BTW (One of my favorite team PvP scenario in another game involved friendly fire rules), does not address the player perception (reality in most content actually) that Berzerker gear is best. Instead it creates a situation in which each of the party members who chose to equip in Berzerker gear for its superiority would want to hold on to their gear (because they have already demonstrated that they have the mindset that calls for them to pursue the top performing gear option by picking Berzerker in the first place) while wanting the other guys to drop theirs. Add in the upcoming increase in the cost of having more than one BiS gear set (ascended armor) and the effect is exacerbated.

What you have proposed does not fix the problem, it just gets people excluded from groups for their choice of gear. Which is part of the current problem. You have merely changed who is excluded.

Vayne.8563:

First of all, the problem is a real one if the forums are to be believed. There have been far too many posts about it. If the game is structured so that berserker gear is the only logical/reasonable choice, that’s a problem with the game. I merely suggested a possible solution.

It would allow players soloing to run around in whatever they want, but wouldn’t allow the stacking of berserkers on a boss, thus trivializing it.

Since then, other people have suggested other things that would work including damage reflection…but it would have to be more than just a small percentage. The damage reflection would have to be serious enough to do possibly cause a wipe (or the problem will remain).

It is logical to pick berseker’s gear if you are good enough to handle it. Problem is that being good enough in this faceroll game is that being just mediocre is enough, thus creating an illusion that every average player should be running with that gear. Content is a problem, not a gear. Fix/revamp content and most of faceroll zerkers disappear. Fix zerker and everyone will switch to assassin.

Stacking with berserer’s gear doesn’t trivialize content, try doing something harder than cof1 or living story, then try to figure out how you can fix this.

So let’s say we “fix” ’zerker gear.

Won’t people just go to assassin’s instead?

Edit: Whoop, Haviz literally said everything I wanted to say.

Aberrant.6749:

Azure Prower.8701:

Aberrant.6749:

Azure Prower.8701:

When gear becomes easier to obtain/swap stats.

Then we’ll talk about build diversity.

Well dungeons are scaled for rares of that level. Getting exotics is very easy. I don’t see an inherent problem.

You’re forgetting ascended armors are coming soon.

But… it’s scaled for rares… why would you need ascended for a dungeon?

For the same reason why you go with zerkers? To make it faster and easier?

here’s what i would do

make all bosses non-crittable like Tequatl

Berserker’s Gear is for champ farming at the speed of light

Knights or Sentinels becomes the best dungeon and world boss gear

All gear should be stripped out of stats. Everyone is happy, you don’t have to grind again if you want to swap a build, just pay 3.5s. There are no cons, just like in gw1.

Breaking news: There is no zerker problem. It’s all a bad players moaning about it cause it’s the embodiment or “High risk high reward” that they can’t achieve, while others do and discriminate/farm much better cause of it.

If you don’t like, don’t use it.
If you don’t want to play in a certain way, write it in your LFG – bam, likeminded group formed.

On the other hand:

All gear should be stripped out of stats. Everyone is happy, you don’t have to grind again if you want to swap a build, just pay 3.5s. There are no cons, just like in gw1.

This is much more imporant thing.

Zerker gear is not a issue.
Stat on gear, which makes build flexibility bind to different gear for effectiveness, making grind very bad even on same char let alone if you want BiS for multiple chars, are a much bigger flaw.

This idea is terrible. I’d be too busy intentionally killing my team mates and I’d never leave the start of a dungeon

Vayne.8563:

Having a single beserker warrior or guardian or mesmer or whatever in a party really isn’t a problem. It doesn’t make encounters in dungeons much more trivial. It’s when you start stacking all these beserkers in one party that they can mow down most bosses in seconds. Maybe that’s fun for a few speed runners, but it makes beserker the go to stats, and as a result, there’s less build variety. Even improving the healing and support won’t particularly help this situation since it’s better to just kill stuff fast for most people.

But when you think about what a beserker actually is, it’s someone who’s attacking in a frenzy.

I think if more than one person in full beserker gear, or predominantly is beserker are all attacking a boss at the same time, I think they should also start damaging each other.

Grins.

Problem solved.

Why don’t they just mix a boss stat like in Diablo 2 – Immune/Resist Physical Damage – that way, they can do a mechanic that condition damage deals more damage than those wearing zerk.

I’m not saying that all boss should have this but mix it into Dungeon and make it so that the boss cannot be skipped, and you’ll have a variety.

Or better yet, stat would be random. Say Boss 1 – one instance it’s Immune/Resist to condition, next run, it’s Immune/Resist Physical Damage. This will make boss stats harder to predict – adding more variety.

I’m still thinking how we could include support on the mix…

haviz.1340:

Aberrant.6749:

A dev stated it looonnnggg ago, I’m not going to go through all of their old posts to link it lol. If anyone happens to have it saved and comes across this, please link it.

(I’m sure fractals are an exception to this though… they weren’t in the game at that time.)

Funny, because scaling works in such way that exotics are supposed to be used from level 60. Rares are for AC, CM and TA while exotics for the rest.

Funny ha ha or funny uh-oh?

Don’t ask me why they chose rare, idk.

Also, just because you can get higher gear at those levels doesn’t mean that the areas are scaled for them.

Aberrant.6749:

Funny ha ha or funny uh-oh?

Don’t ask me why they chose rares.

If you have rares at level 80 and go into AC you will be downscaled to level 35 in something that’s close to masterworks. However, if you go to AC with exotics you will be downscaled to level 35 in rares.

haviz.1340:

Aberrant.6749:

Funny ha ha or funny uh-oh?

Don’t ask me why they chose rares.

If you have rares at level 80 and go into AC you will be downscaled to level 35 in something that’s close to masterworks. However, if you go to AC with exotics you will be downscaled to level 35 in rares.

I’ll have to go test that and see sometime. Maybe I took scaled for rares the wrong way and it was meant that you’re scaled down to rares.

“Zerker” meta will be fixed with better encounters and a more balanced stat scaling.

The former solution because, if “hard” encounters rely on defiance, on one-hit kill skills, and if condition stacking remains as it is, all defensive and condition stats will remain pointless.

The later solution because some stats don’t scale enough, like healing power, which makes little to no difference most of the time, or toughness, which only scales as half as much as power does. Meanwhile, power is a godlike stat. It is possibly the greatest stat in this game, by far. It scales better than defensive stats, it can be multiplied with precision and critical damage, it is not restricted by immunity to critical hits, it is not restricted by condition capping, etc. That’s why when critical hits are not viable due to immunity, people go to the best power set without critical dependence.

Interesting topic but I’d really rather not have too much…‘realism’.

From my point of view, the only problem with Berzerkers is that some Berzerker equipped people take using said gear like a gospel or sumthin and as such would actively try to make public his/her ‘ideologies’ and belittle anyone who does otherwise.

Not every zerker ppl does not mind you. majority likely dont anyhow. Just like not all zerker people are godlike in PvE stuff all the time. Quite a number of times during some dungeon run or boss fight, they’ll be lazing off, lying on their backs in the middle of the room or such. As someone said up there, its a high-risk-high-reward thing. I personally don’t use full zerker gear but I don’t really mind if anyone does either. So i dont think it really needs a fix.

Vayne.8563:

champ.7021:

Vayne.8563:

Wukunlin.8461:

in which case healers should heal enemies too

Magic is different from physical stuff. It’s easy enough to make a spell to heal those who say are not hostile to you…because you make hostility the trigger to not heal that person. By the same token, it’s hard to make an ax or greatsword sympathetic to other people.

Aaaah i see what vayne wants. He wants this game to be like real life, where magic only affects those you want it to. I mean come on wunkunlin where have you been. Every time a cleric guardian heals someone in real life they only heal allies. You should know this….By the same token every time i go out into san francsico with my berserker armor and a greatsword axe mace build i always end up hitting and killing a friend kind of sad but if its in real life it should be in gw2

You don’t get the genre, and that’s okay. You haven’t studied the genre…I have.

There is a framework set up called world-building in any fantasy narrative and certain things are accepted as true. As long as they remain consistent they can be believed, because they are always true.

There is no real life mechanism for magic, so its up to each creator to define magic. There are, however, real life swords and beserkers. Without some kind of explanation as to how something amazing can be done…you’re asking people to suspend disbelieve more by changing the laws of physics in a non-magical way.

Plausibility and realism aren’t the same thing.

holy kitten you were for realsies?!?!?!

champ.7021:

Vayne.8563:

champ.7021:

Vayne.8563:

Wukunlin.8461:

in which case healers should heal enemies too

Magic is different from physical stuff. It’s easy enough to make a spell to heal those who say are not hostile to you…because you make hostility the trigger to not heal that person. By the same token, it’s hard to make an ax or greatsword sympathetic to other people.

Aaaah i see what vayne wants. He wants this game to be like real life, where magic only affects those you want it to. I mean come on wunkunlin where have you been. Every time a cleric guardian heals someone in real life they only heal allies. You should know this….By the same token every time i go out into san francsico with my berserker armor and a greatsword axe mace build i always end up hitting and killing a friend kind of sad but if its in real life it should be in gw2

You don’t get the genre, and that’s okay. You haven’t studied the genre…I have.

There is a framework set up called world-building in any fantasy narrative and certain things are accepted as true. As long as they remain consistent they can be believed, because they are always true.

There is no real life mechanism for magic, so its up to each creator to define magic. There are, however, real life swords and beserkers. Without some kind of explanation as to how something amazing can be done…you’re asking people to suspend disbelieve more by changing the laws of physics in a non-magical way.

Plausibility and realism aren’t the same thing.

holy kitten you were for realsies?!?!?!

Nah, the whole thing was tongue in cheek…but I was having fun.

Still I like the conversation that ensued, particularly the idea of damage reflect or something along those lines.

As people rightly pointed out, it isn’t berserker that’s the problem, it’s the fact that the encounters are designed in such a way that beserker is king. That really needs to change.

Liliana Moore.4237:

Wukunlin.8461:

in which case healers should heal enemies too

Yess. We need Heal Area from GW 1

Hmm … Heal Area would make the ooze pull in the aetherpath much easier. It would also make the rest of the game quite horrible though. People who spam knockbacks for no reason is bad enough. People spamming Heal Area without looking what they are next to … >_<

champ.7021:

why not just let party members damage each other anyways that way i can kill off all those useless clerics guards as punishment muahahahahahahaha!!!!!

Also build variety is a good idea in the sense that you have damage or condition. All the other stat combinations are useless. GW2 honestly has way too many stat combinations probably so casuals can feel innovative

This is one of the problems, the stat system they’ve created is a ton of fun, but when there is one “best” set then you don’t get to experience it. If you try to do something like increase 4 or 5 specific stats then you end up picking 2 or 3 different sets that have most of the stats you need and balancing them.

Oh well, too late now.