Guild Wars 2

New page bug. 15 char.

Abakk.9176:

LucosTheDutch.4819:

Leo G.4501:

Endless Soul.5178:

Vayne.8563:

I find this mount aversion perplexing. A mount, at least in this case, is like a tool. If I didn’t like keys, I wouldn’t avoid locked doors. I’d pick up the key, open the lock put the key away and not think about it.

This just feels like taking a stand to just to take a stand to me.

I don’t like mounts because immersion. How is a mount less immersive than walking everywhere? There are animals in the game. Races domesticate animals (including devourers used by charr in the game), seems to me that nothing could be more natural than riding a mount…for immersion.

In truth walking everywhere doesn’t make as much sense as riding a mount.

I think a lot of it has to do with mount trolling in other games. Standing on top of NPCs, blocking views, clutter everywhere, etc.

I myself, was rather anti-mountish, but that’s because I was a a Guild Wars 1 traditionalist.

Now, after seeing them in the announcement video, I’m reservedly excited. I’m just hoping they’re disabled in cities.

I think this is something everyone in the thread can agree with. We should have “no mounts zone” areas mainly around heavily populated zones (like entering the trading post or crafting area) or stopping NPC interaction while mounted. I doubt many people would be oppose to that.

Exactly. WoW does a good job at this. I can’t remember ever being hindered in my interactions with NPCs, vendors, etc. by other people with mounts. All the important vendors are inside a building and in WoW your char automatically dismounts the moment you walk inside a building. But even outside while being out- and about, questing etc. I don’t think I’ve ever successfully been trolled by mounted players.

So really, this ‘mountphobia’ I’m seeing from some people makes no sense to me.

Actually, WoW does a crap job with this. In the main cities, that are the main hubs for pretty much all socializing, people purpously stand over NPC’s, Mailboxes and whatnot. I’m not even talking about the mess with the prattling heirloom mount that are seemingly always manned by AFK people at mailboxes and NPC’s. Also not talking about the seasonal events where seasonal NPC’s are blocked off with mounts that are big as mountains or bellowing smoke and are preferably stacked by hundreds to make the server lag out…. because ‘fun’.

I have no idea what version of WoW you played, or even when, but it has nothing to do with the massive trollfest it is today.

Again, mounts are fine as long as their implementation is well thought out. Not just plonk ’em in everywhere without so much as thinking it through.

That hardly qualifies as ‘mountphobia’, does it? It’s more ‘educated criticism’.

If anything, the group of people that want them ‘no matter what’ seems a bunch less empathetic about it than the ones that want a bit of restrain and thoughtfullness to it.

I played vanilla WoW, TBC, and I recently started playing retail WoW (Legion). I’ve never seen anything you described. Maybe it’s an Alliance thing? Horde people are often more mature, or at least on my servers (Kazzak and Defias Brotherhood) they are.

Besides, last time I checked WoW is programmed in such a way that when a player overlaps a vendor and you try to click on the vendor, the game will understand it’s the vendor you want to click and not the player and thus the vendor window will pop-up with no problem.

And even more so, GW2 doesn’t have this problem at all since we interact with nearby NPCs by pressing ‘F’, not by clicking on them. So you could stack your entire server on the banking NPC and I’d still just as easily access my bank just by pressing ‘F’. No problem whatsoever.

Look, I’m not gonna lie and pretend there will NEVER be ANY problems at all with people trolling with mounts. Players will ALWAYS find new ways to troll other players. That is never going to change, with or without mounts. The only thing I’m disagreeing with is the severity. The nay-sayers think it will be all doom and gloom with mounts and think the game will be a horrible cluttered mess. I think they’re vastly overreacting. It’s not that bad, not even in WoW.

xikira.3264:

I don’t think mounts belong in the game they ruin the immersion.

Breaking immersion? Really?
One example against it from Guild Wars: Prophecies.
https://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Summit_Beastmaster

And this is only one example.

LucosTheDutch.4819:

Abakk.9176:

LucosTheDutch.4819:

Leo G.4501:

Endless Soul.5178:

Vayne.8563:

I find this mount aversion perplexing. A mount, at least in this case, is like a tool. If I didn’t like keys, I wouldn’t avoid locked doors. I’d pick up the key, open the lock put the key away and not think about it.

This just feels like taking a stand to just to take a stand to me.

I don’t like mounts because immersion. How is a mount less immersive than walking everywhere? There are animals in the game. Races domesticate animals (including devourers used by charr in the game), seems to me that nothing could be more natural than riding a mount…for immersion.

In truth walking everywhere doesn’t make as much sense as riding a mount.

I think a lot of it has to do with mount trolling in other games. Standing on top of NPCs, blocking views, clutter everywhere, etc.

I myself, was rather anti-mountish, but that’s because I was a a Guild Wars 1 traditionalist.

Now, after seeing them in the announcement video, I’m reservedly excited. I’m just hoping they’re disabled in cities.

I think this is something everyone in the thread can agree with. We should have “no mounts zone” areas mainly around heavily populated zones (like entering the trading post or crafting area) or stopping NPC interaction while mounted. I doubt many people would be oppose to that.

Exactly. WoW does a good job at this. I can’t remember ever being hindered in my interactions with NPCs, vendors, etc. by other people with mounts. All the important vendors are inside a building and in WoW your char automatically dismounts the moment you walk inside a building. But even outside while being out- and about, questing etc. I don’t think I’ve ever successfully been trolled by mounted players.

So really, this ‘mountphobia’ I’m seeing from some people makes no sense to me.

Actually, WoW does a crap job with this. In the main cities, that are the main hubs for pretty much all socializing, people purpously stand over NPC’s, Mailboxes and whatnot. I’m not even talking about the mess with the prattling heirloom mount that are seemingly always manned by AFK people at mailboxes and NPC’s. Also not talking about the seasonal events where seasonal NPC’s are blocked off with mounts that are big as mountains or bellowing smoke and are preferably stacked by hundreds to make the server lag out…. because ‘fun’.

I have no idea what version of WoW you played, or even when, but it has nothing to do with the massive trollfest it is today.

Again, mounts are fine as long as their implementation is well thought out. Not just plonk ’em in everywhere without so much as thinking it through.

That hardly qualifies as ‘mountphobia’, does it? It’s more ‘educated criticism’.

If anything, the group of people that want them ‘no matter what’ seems a bunch less empathetic about it than the ones that want a bit of restrain and thoughtfullness to it.

I played vanilla WoW, TBC, and I recently started playing retail WoW (Legion). I’ve never seen anything you described. Maybe it’s an Alliance thing? Horde people are often more mature, or at least on my servers (Kazzak and Defias Brotherhood) they are.

Besides, last time I checked WoW is programmed in such a way that when a player overlaps a vendor and you try to click on the vendor, the game will understand it’s the vendor you want to click and not the player and thus the vendor window will pop-up with no problem.

And even more so, GW2 doesn’t have this problem at all since we interact with nearby NPCs by pressing ‘F’, not by clicking on them. So you could stack your entire server on the banking NPC and I’d still just as easily access my bank just by pressing ‘F’. No problem whatsoever.

Look, I’m not gonna lie and pretend there will NEVER be ANY problems at all with people trolling with mounts. Players will ALWAYS find new ways to troll other players. That is never going to change, with or without mounts. The only thing I’m disagreeing with is the severity. The nay-sayers think it will be all doom and gloom with mounts and think the game will be a horrible cluttered mess. I think they’re vastly overreacting. It’s not that bad, not even in WoW.

You are correct. If there are five Traveler’s Tundra Mammoth’s sitting on top of a mailbox you can shift your perspective and do a mouseover to access the mailbox. Nothing has ever blocked my ability to access a mailbox. Mounts can be visually annoying at times, obscuring interactables visually and the like; I’ll give him that.

Everyone claiming that mounts break immersion should google ‘what is game immersion?’ and read some articles and/or play LotRO. Immersion is about coherence and authenticity and mounts can increase the authenticity of a game world. If immersion is your biggest concern, then I have no idea why you are playing GW2.

It is clear to me that the declaration that ‘mounts break immersion’ is more of a slogan used to identify one’s aesthetic and group and not a reasoned argument. Imo, it is an aesthetic dominated by entitled contrarianism. You are entitled to believe that our PCs should be able to overcome any obstacle the world presents by pulling some magical ability from our kitten. You are entitled to insist that GW2 has to be contrary to every other mmo. The studio has definitely cultivated that mythos. However, you are not entitled to declare that failing to live up to your aesthetic breaks immersion. Have the dignity to declare you preference without claiming there is an existential risk in the studio’s failing to cater to your preference.

That being said, I hope mounts are restricted from certain areas like towns and open world crafting hubs. I can’t stand visual clutter and having mounts in those areas come closest to breaking immersion. It turns everything into the real world equivalent of a drive thru window (edit) and transform world elements that are important because they are areas the player shares with NPCs into areas that are just playgrounds for heroes.

Psientist.6437:

Everyone claiming that mounts break immersion should google ‘what is game immersion?’ and read some articles and/or play LotRO. Immersion is about coherence and authenticity and mounts can increase the authenticity of a game world. If immersion is your biggest concern, then I have no idea why you are playing GW2.

It is clear to me that the declaration that ‘mounts break immersion’ is more of a slogan used to identify one’s aesthetic and group and not a reasoned argument. Imo, it is an aesthetic dominated by entitled contrarianism. You are entitled to believe that our PCs should be able to overcome any obstacle the world presents by pulling some magical ability from our kitten. You are entitled to insist that GW2 has to be contrary to every other mmo. The studio has definitely cultivated that mythos. However, you are not entitled to declare that failing to live up to your aesthetic breaks immersion. Have the dignity to declare you preference without claiming there is an existential risk in the studio’s failing to cater to your preference.

That being said, I hope mounts are restricted from certain areas like towns and open world crafting hubs. I can’t stand visual clutter and having mounts in those areas come closest to breaking immersion. It turns everything into the real world equivalent of a drive thru window (edit) and transform world elements that are important because they are areas the player shares with NPCs into areas that are just playgrounds for heroes.

Actually they are entitled to make the claim that failing to live up to their preferences breaks immersion (for them at least). Arenanet, owners of these forums, grants the entitlement to provide that feedback.

Personally I do not find mounts to be inherently immersion breaking, but others have different tolerances for different things. Something that is so aesthetically, or otherwise, distracting, or perhaps offputting as to distance one from the story and setting can interfere with one’s immersion.

Ashen.2907:

Actually they are entitled to make the claim that failing to live up to their preferences breaks immersion (for them at least). Arenanet, owners of these forums, grants the entitlement to provide that feedback.

They are entitled to claim they don’t like it. “Breaking immersion” ends up depending on what someone means by “immersion” and what would qualify as “breaking” it. Personally, I think immersion can only be broken if the game itself contradicts itself too often.

For example, this game doesn’t break immersion with regard to cats being swimmers but not dogs, unless we bring our RL biases: in Tyria, feline animal companions swim and canines do not. So if this game includes huge wing backpacks or mounts in cities, immersing ourselves in this game means accepting wings and mounts.

That doesn’t mean anyone has to like it. It just means that “breaking immersion” isn’t going to be an argument that will help convince others that there might be an issue. If the goal is getting ANet to change plans, I strongly recommend choosing a different rhetorical technique.

I could care less about immersion since a million other things have broken “immersion” in this world ages ago. I don’t play MMOs for immersion.

Lore, on the other hand.

Maybe allowing for some amount of new creature evolution would bring about the jackal and raptor mounts, but seriously? A Bunnyroo and Hover-Ray? Give me a break. There could’ve been other creatures like, I dunno, the SANDWORMS from the first game? Not to mention the fact that the mounts thing is going to lead to a whole bunch of obnoxious visual noise in places that mounts really don’t need to be.

If I get this xpac I’m going to make sure to ignore the mounts entirely except for the bare minimum of times I’m absolutely required to use them, and if anet categorically forces me to use them just out and about just to further the mastery along then I’ll go back to playing in core and HoT or not play it at all.

So I remember a long time ago I was once part of the anti-mount crowd because of my horrible interactions with people in WoW, and the time it took to get from point A to point B. Then I played Black Desert and got over it ( it literally takes 1 hour to get to some places). As long as mounts dont cost people gold or stuff and you can max them out easy then I have no real problem with them, if they become one of those “you dont have a mount tier X so you cant do this with the other 1000 players” or " you move at 100% speed while this mount that cost 200g makes you move at 400% and has passive prot/aegis/ boombox" then I am fine with mounts being added,may even buy a skin or two

PookieDaWombat.6209:

If I get this xpac I’m going to make sure to ignore the mounts entirely except for the bare minimum of times I’m absolutely required to use them, and if anet categorically forces me to use them just out and about just to further the mastery along then I’ll go back to playing in core and HoT or not play it at all.

You could do that, sure. But why not take a gander at the preview (it’s free) and check out how it works. You might hate it, you might not.

There are all sorts of things that I expected to hate in GW2: guardian (because I don’t like soldier classes), mesmer (because it wasn’t GW1’s kind of mesmer), raids, jumping puzzles, adventures, and more. And most of these things are now among my favorite in the game (well, except for adventures; I still hate them).

I’m no fan of mounts. I’m just willing to set aside my preconceptions long enough to see what they’ll be like in GW2. I can always go back to being against them (or even hate them).

xikira.3264:

This I could totally accept because it is lore and immersion friendly. We use a similar system already in dry top.

no.. just.. no..
thats not what the zephyrites do at all..
they pray to the winds, the sun, and the storm, and in turn, they can tap into that power, and they shared that magic with us by imbuing crystals for us. We can’t carry a stockpile of sun, wind and storm crystals with us everywhere we go.

I don’t understand what the problem is. If you don’t like them only use them as a tool to for crossing whatever is relevant. Then they become no different than the zephyrite crystals with taking slightly longer to constantly put it away and pull it out. But that delay is your punishment for being stubborn about something that doesn’t really harm anyone other than being another vanity slot for them to sell us.

The issue isn’t taking mounts out of the game. It’s simply an easy visual fix attached to a toggle that prevents one player (the player making the choice to use said fix) from having to deal with the visual noise of mounts.

I don’t want a mount. I don’t intend to put up with one unless no other option presents itself. No other player’s mount ‘matters’ to my game (whether I can see their mount or not confers no in-game advantage or disadvantage that has been mentioned). Therefore invisible mount or generic mount toggles mean that my game isn’t cluttered, bogged down, or lagged by other player’s mounts. If I can have this, and it doesn’t do a single thing to anyone else, whether they want mounts or not, why shouldn’t it be an option?

Its not about immersion – a player hovering past like an exalted is no less immersion breaking than them reenacting the march of hares, and due to the smaller size and fewer polygons, much less noticeable. Its about visual noise, and blotting out the mount as a visual option (which is the point) should be easy and necessary.

A lot of the pro-mount crowd say ‘if you don’t like them, don’t use them’. Is it so hard to include ‘if you don’t like them, you shouldn’t have to look at them’? Because if it is, if someone is going to say ‘well, you have to see other player’s mounts’ the question becomes – why? What does the game or the player lose if they can’t see the giant bunnies and jackolems cluttering up the screen? The only thing I can think of is the vanity of the people saying that the mounts should be visible. “I have this big thing – you should be impressed by the big thing I have”. No thanks, I’d prefer to see the parts of the game that actually matter to me, and another player’s mount is explicitly not in that category. Even if I end up using a mount, which is unlikely but possible, that still doesn’t change that other player’s mounts do not and will not functionally matter to me, and an option to remove them from my sight hurts literally nothing. Nor will that option hurt anyone else. But it may make a heck of a lot of people happier.

Firseal.4716:

A lot of the pro-mount crowd say ‘if you don’t like them, don’t use them’. Is it so hard to include ‘if you don’t like them, you shouldn’t have to look at them’? Because if it is, if someone is going to say ‘well, you have to see other player’s mounts’ the question becomes – why? What does the game or the player lose if they can’t see the giant bunnies and jackolems cluttering up the screen? The only thing I can think of is the vanity of the people saying that the mounts should be visible. “I have this big thing – you should be impressed by the big thing I have”. No thanks, I’d prefer to see the parts of the game that actually matter to me, and another player’s mount is explicitly not in that category. Even if I end up using a mount, which is unlikely but possible, that still doesn’t change that other player’s mounts do not and will not functionally matter to me, and an option to remove them from my sight hurts literally nothing. Nor will that option hurt anyone else. But it may make a heck of a lot of people happier.

By that logic everyone should be able to turn off everyone else’s weapon skins, gliders, skill effects, minis, trinket auras, and back items, and all legendary effects. Hell should just be able to turn off all players.

So okay, let’s pretend this isn’t a world where skins and vanity slots are pretty much what dictate the endgame.

It still serves a mechanical purpose and visual information has been key in this games since release, holding that back serves no purpose other than to appease pointless stubbornness. Plus that visual information regardless of what it is, is beneficial I can only fathom what the new maps and season 4 has, but why hold back on what is mechanically possible especially when it’s common knowledge the maps are balanced around using them?

In HoT there were fights where you had to glide. If you could completely turn off gliders, laylines, and updrafts or any one of these, simply because you don’t like them… You’re gonna have a bad time, and probably let down everyone around you in a raid. Could you imagine dragon stand with these turned off? It makes no sense to let people do that, and even less sense to give those same people the opportunity to complain because they died for being stubborn.

If it is a matter of PC performance you might want to invest in a better PC instead of PoF.

I’m not that fond of the options for mounts as well, but there will be more, and it only gives you more options for customization.We’ll have special skins, or designs that you can earn and buy. Probably get a magic carpet version of the skimmer for example.

At the end of the day you get to dictate your own customization not other peoples. Some will always be mounted, others will stand stoic on the ground, others will turn themselves into rabbits and run around with giant kites.

If you really can’t take seeing it, then don’t buy PoF. If you really can’t even stand it in core, and HoT maps then well your in for a sad time friend might want to find another game if you can’t stand it.

Daishi.6027:

Hell should just be able to turn off all players.

The engine did that, once. To much clutter in front (ie like 20 players), np just dont render the rest. Ah, those where the days. Not even minis then. Or armor for that matter since the players you could see had probably been reduced to default anyway,

Ranael.6423:

Endless Soul.5178:

I think a lot of it has to do with mount trolling in other games. Standing on top of NPCs, blocking views, clutter everywhere, etc.

Well, already without mounts there is some NPC hiding made by huge Norns and Charrs… and JP “trolling” is also a thing. We survived 5 years without “anti-Norn” zones… we will survive without “anti-mounts” ones I guess.

It would be nice if they didn’t exacerbate the problem though. It’s bad enough with the giant spiky norn and charr with 8 foot wide back pieces and every aura they can buy stacked on top of each other. There’s no need to stick them on top of a large animal and make them even more of an obstruction.

Daishi.6027:

By that logic everyone should be able to turn off everyone else’s weapon skins, gliders, skill effects, minis, trinket auras, and back items, and all legendary effects. Hell should just be able to turn off all players.

So okay, let’s pretend this isn’t a world where skins and vanity slots are pretty much what dictate the endgame.

It still serves a mechanical purpose and visual information has been key in this games since release, holding that back serves no purpose other than to appease pointless stubbornness. Plus that visual information regardless of what it is, is beneficial I can only fathom what the new maps and season 4 has, but why hold back on what is mechanically possible especially when it’s common knowledge the maps are balanced around using them?

In HoT there were fights where you had to glide. If you could completely turn off gliders, laylines, and updrafts or any one of these, simply because you don’t like them… You’re gonna have a bad time, and probably let down everyone around you in a raid. Could you imagine dragon stand with these turned off? It makes no sense to let people do that, and even less sense to give those same people the opportunity to complain because they died for being stubborn.

If it is a matter of PC performance you might want to invest in a better PC instead of PoF.

I’m not that fond of the options for mounts as well, but there will be more, and it only gives you more options for customization.We’ll have special skins, or designs that you can earn and buy. Probably get a magic carpet version of the skimmer for example.

At the end of the day you get to dictate your own customization not other peoples. Some will always be mounted, others will stand stoic on the ground, others will turn themselves into rabbits and run around with giant kites.

If you really can’t take seeing it, then don’t buy PoF. If you really can’t even stand it in core, and HoT maps then well your in for a sad time friend might want to find another game if you can’t stand it.

Except you are ignoring my point. You get to dictate your customization, sure, but you don’t have to be bothered by other people’s customization. In point of fact, there are options to turn off the models for the characters. There have been for years. Because it doesn’t matter to the player if the other players have sparkly bits. If you’ve never seen this option, it isn’t because the choice isn’t there – its because you haven’t gone looking for it.

All you need to see of another player is a generic model, and a generic model of what they are holding. One to know they are there, one to know what their weapon skillset lets them do. Anything more is a choice you are making, even if you are only making it because you haven’t taken the time to look and see if there is an alternative. As for your point about turning off gliders, or making them generic – the posture and movement of the character model tells me if someone is gliding. I don’t need to see anything of the glider. Your point about turning off updrafts and leylines is nonsensical. Its not what anyone asked for, is a mechanical portion of the map, and not germane to this discussion.

If someone using an option to eliminate the visual data of other player’s mounts sees another character move in such a way as is only possible with a mount, they aren’t going to say ‘witchcraft’! They are going to say, ‘oh, guess that one used the raptor because the model just lunged across a gap’. Its not complicated, its not difficult. Its just blotting out useless clutter on the map – in this case, the customized appearance of whatever mount the other player used.

Mounts are big, and yes, a lot of people find them to be intrusive, cluttering, or flat out unappealing. If you don’t, that’s fine. Your customization, and what you are doing, is up to you. But part of that customization should include what parts of other players – what visual information they impart on your screen – is important. Part of not dictating to others their customization is not complaining if that customization means they don’t want to waste their time seeing you as anything but a grey figure, riding a grey generic whatever, or floating in the air. You can turn off or make generic the rest. We better be able to turn off mounts. Especially since they add the least – even gliders impart more important visual information to other players, and again, those are easily figured out by seeing posture and movement. There’s nothing in what mounts visually input that actually matters to another player in PvE.

I want an option to hide players who want to hide my mount

i’m so glad the endless debate of adding mounts or not will end <3 it’s been way too long!

So now the dead horse threads are going to be those that don’t want mounts? Are they going to last as long as the dead horse threads did that constantly requested mounts for the game? I understand the dismay of those who are very closely tied to lore but that ship has sailed anyway. Mounts are going to happen and there isn’t any amount of threads that are going to change that.

Why would anyone not “want” mounts. They exist in the gw1 lore, they make you move faster, they are dyeable, they look cool lol. I don’t get it, who cares, why would not want these things.

trailofsalt.6571:

So now the dead horse threads are going to be those that don’t want mounts? Are they going to last as long as the dead horse threads did that constantly requested mounts for the game? I understand the dismay of those who are very closely tied to lore but that ship has sailed anyway. Mounts are going to happen and there isn’t any amount of threads that are going to change that.

Nah, we mounters are better than that. No need to rub their noses in the horse manure. ;D

I’m not against mounts. I am just getting bored with all the ways that we are forced to get around (dry top, hot masteries including gliders, mounts). I feel that we should get mounts for all who want them, but not be forced to use them.

A good compromise would be to not use the mount if you dislike it.

Now excuse me im gonna take my raptor bond with it while feeding some skritt to it and take it for a casual and relaxing ride.

LucosTheDutch.4819:

Anet can’t please everybody, ‘t is true. But they can please the vast majority. And the vast majority wanted mounts, but the vast majority also didn’t just want mounts for a speed boost, they wanted them to be meaningful. And thus, Anet delivered us exactly that after 5 years of people asking for it.

Where was the poll that showed the ‘vast majority’ wanted mounts?

You sample is probably just your friends who probably think like you. My sample is probably the same where the ‘vast majority’ felt that Mounts is a very bad idea and shows Anet has lost its creative touch and is looking more and more like any other generic MMO.

Welcome to GimmickWars!

LucosTheDutch.4819:

Ashen.2907:

LucosTheDutch.4819:

Ashen.2907:

LucosTheDutch.4819:

Your idea sounds rather silly OP. Why would anyone want our super cool mounts to be replaced with turning our characters into The Flash, Superman or The Green Lantern?

Seriously, I don’t understand why some of you are so anti-mounts. Mounts are cool. Especially these mounts Anet has in store for us in PoF. Why would someone not want them?

Perhaps because not everyone thinks that they are cool?

Think about your favorite character.
Specifically his appearance.
How you spent hours choosing the right combination of armor pieces and dyes.
How proud you are of the results.
How much you enjoy having such a cool looking character.

Now realise that someone else thinks your character is unattractive, or otherwise visually unappealing.

You see, or perhaps you dont, we all have different opinions about what we think looks good.

Oh come on. There are 5 vastly different mounts. They are all well-designed and you can tell that the devs spend an incredibly amount of time animating them and making their movement look good, attractive and believable. You can’t tell me you think all 5 of them look ugly, that just seems dishonest to me.

Besides, how would “your character booking it at high speed through the desert” look any better? I think that would look incredibly stupid.

Clearly, there are way more people in the “mounts are cool” camp than the “mounts are lame” camp. If this wasn’t the case, Anet wouldn’t have added them in PoF. Or do you think the market researchers at Anet aren’t doing their job?

So people who dont like the same things as you are dishonest…

What looks good or attractive is subjective. One could just as easily, and accurately, say that anet spent an incredible amount of time animating them and making their movement look bad and unattractive.

This whole “everything is subjective” spiel is old, it’s not true, and needs to die.

While indeed a good portion of beauty is subjective, most of it is grounded in objective measurable reality. The ’ uncanny valley’ for example, is a real thing and almost universally applicable to all human beings, and it’s objectively measurable. The ‘golden ratio’ is also a real, objective, and universal standard for beauty. Build your composition according to the ‘golden ratio’, and your painting will look universally more professional and more attractive to 99,9% of all people. People who’s facial structure closely match the ‘golden ratio’ are universally considered more attractive than people who’s faces do not match the ‘golden ratio’. These opinions and views on beauty are universal across the whole world and independent from culture.

To say “one could just as easily, and accurately, say that anet spent an incredible amount of time animating them and making their movement look bad and unattractive” is just blatantly false, nonsensical and stupid, and you know it. Or are you saying the animators at Anet don’t know how to do their job?

Anet can’t please everybody, ‘t is true. But they can please the vast majority. And the vast majority wanted mounts, but the vast majority also didn’t just want mounts for a speed boost, they wanted them to be meaningful. And thus, Anet delivered us exactly that after 5 years of people asking for it.

As a reminder, I was responding to:

LucosTheDutch.4819:

Why would anyone want our super cool mounts to be replaced

Not a question about what a majority might find appealing, but why would anyone want mounts replaced.

For what it is worth, you are incorrect about something being universally more appealing. More likely to be appealing. Yes. More appealing to more people. Sure. Universal appeal? Feel free to provide a single example of a work of art that is universally (definition: without exception, in every case) appealing.

well if the people who wanted mounts were a minority then Arenanet wouldn’t have changed their stance on it, simple as that.

I read a lot of the thread and other ones about mounts and I feel as if most people are under the impression that mounts will have to be used 100% the time to traverse.

Gliding and updrafts in HoT were mandatory to get to certain places for completion and progression as well as gating by masteries, mounts the same will be “tools” just like gliding was/is as well as tunnels/bouncy shrooms etc. Use them to get to X ledge/across y thing, hop off and continue on foot.

Blockhead Magee.3092:

LucosTheDutch.4819:

Anet can’t please everybody, ‘t is true. But they can please the vast majority. And the vast majority wanted mounts, but the vast majority also didn’t just want mounts for a speed boost, they wanted them to be meaningful. And thus, Anet delivered us exactly that after 5 years of people asking for it.

Where was the poll that showed the ‘vast majority’ wanted mounts?

You sample is probably just your friends who probably think like you. My sample is probably the same where the ‘vast majority’ felt that Mounts is a very bad idea and shows Anet has lost its creative touch and is looking more and more like any other generic MMO.

>Created mounts that have more dimensionailty to them than just pure movement speed boost. Tied heavily into the terrain of the expansion and possibly the lore of the area as well.

>“Anet is not being creative here”

Firseal.4716:

Except you are ignoring my point. You get to dictate your customization, sure, but you don’t have to be bothered by other people’s customization. In point of fact, there are options to turn off the models for the characters. There have been for years. Because it doesn’t matter to the player if the other players have sparkly bits. If you’ve never seen this option, it isn’t because the choice isn’t there – its because you haven’t gone looking for it.

No. You misunderstand the feature.

You can turn down the rendering set models to low quality, and turn off name plates. That does not hide weapons, or all of their effects, or minis, or gliders, or back items, regardless of how flashy they are. This is not a method to cater to the ego of the individual player, and not what they can tolerate as a preference. This exists for the sake of performance of lower end machines.
(Which btw when I was listing off the things you hypothetically should be able to turn off with the logic of your prior argument, I never mentioned armor or faces deliberately which I did know was a feature.)

In competitive you can set standard models, standard team colours, and control player specific nameplates. The first two options are designed so you can clearly see enemy animations so you can play around them. This way you can’t have a tiny Asura with a smaller weapon skin, covered in particle effects obscuring it’s cast for the sake of an objective advantage. The third option helps to not obscure your view when distinguishing enemy numbers with low rendering, and focusing down targets or having your allies plates get in the way.

If we lived in a world where performance was not an issue for anyone, I highly doubt A-net would waste resources on anything other the competitive options, and giving us control over rendering limits.

Firseal.4716:

All you need to see of another player is a generic model, and a generic model of what they are holding. One to know they are there, one to know what their weapon skillset lets them do. Anything more is a choice you are making, even if you are only making it because you haven’t taken the time to look and see if there is an alternative. As for your point about turning off gliders, or making them generic – the posture and movement of the character model tells me if someone is gliding. I don’t need to see anything of the glider. Your point about turning off updrafts and leylines is nonsensical. Its not what anyone asked for, is a mechanical portion of the map, and not germane to this discussion.

If someone using an option to eliminate the visual data of other player’s mounts sees another character move in such a way as is only possible with a mount, they aren’t going to say ‘witchcraft’! They are going to say, ‘oh, guess that one used the raptor because the model just lunged across a gap’. Its not complicated, its not difficult. Its just blotting out useless clutter on the map – in this case, the customized appearance of whatever mount the other player used.

I strongly disagree. It is the exact same thing that you are asking for, the only difference is the player has the precursor to the mechanic as opposed to it being something static, and the visual information is valuable when you have 4 creatures designed for different things. There are many scenarios in raids or new maps I could think of where this might be the difference between a long walk back, or failing an event, or just holding back your team. Your claim also assumes that there will only be one active skill, no passives, no evolution or even further development come season 4, and we don’t even know what the entirety of their mastery line entails, for all we know they could have separate tabs like gliding. Also, at the very least, if there is any possible design that allows these in WvW, you would have to know which mount did what for their engage attack, and A-net wouldn’t intentionally give you an option to screw yourself in that way.

The point about turning off gliders was just a parallel to the point you made about not liking, and disabling them and how it’s no different than disabling a mount. Which there is no in game option to do. So this shows it is not a feature designed to cater to those who just don’t want to see it, nor is it considered enough of a problem for performance issues. Which btw although it’s only a loose clam, a few of the players who were given access to the early map said it should not be any more intensive than HoT even with mounts.

Firseal.4716:

Mounts are big, and yes, a lot of people find them to be intrusive, cluttering, or flat out unappealing. If you don’t, that’s fine. Your customization, and what you are doing, is up to you. But part of that customization should include what parts of other players – what visual information they impart on your screen – is important. Part of not dictating to others their customization is not complaining if that customization means they don’t want to waste their time seeing you as anything but a grey figure, riding a grey generic whatever, or floating in the air. You can turn off or make generic the rest. We better be able to turn off mounts. Especially since they add the least – even gliders impart more important visual information to other players, and again, those are easily figured out by seeing posture and movement. There’s nothing in what mounts visually input that actually matters to another player in PvE.

I’m not quite sure what you are trying to say? You saying we have a control over other people’s customization’s by being able to turn it off? If so, again majority of the game you cannot disable, the most of it is their armor and character textures, which again is for the sake of performance.

I’m sorry you don’t like it or want it, but it is unlikely they will disable mounts unless it poses a legitimate performance problem.

Zoltar MacRoth.7146:

I want an option to hide players who want to hide my mount

Agreed. I mean come on, compromises for players who don’t want players who don’t want mounts, please!

Blockhead Magee.3092:

LucosTheDutch.4819:

Anet can’t please everybody, ‘t is true. But they can please the vast majority. And the vast majority wanted mounts, but the vast majority also didn’t just want mounts for a speed boost, they wanted them to be meaningful. And thus, Anet delivered us exactly that after 5 years of people asking for it.

Where was the poll that showed the ‘vast majority’ wanted mounts?

You sample is probably just your friends who probably think like you. My sample is probably the same where the ‘vast majority’ felt that Mounts is a very bad idea and shows Anet has lost its creative touch and is looking more and more like any other generic MMO.

No, my sample is the countless upon countless upon countless of threads made my players or potential players asking for mounts, to the point that Anet had to make an official mount thread and sticky it to prevent the forum from being flooded with mount threads. And it was always the same +/-20 forum regulars shooting down mount suggestions/requests with their negative attitude.