Guild Wars 2

Time and again I see and respond to post stating we have no “end-game.” Then I see suggestions that would turn this game into a cookie cutter copy of other games out there. Games I must add many of us have learned to hate.

We Now have this game. A game many love, many don’t understand because they are to set in their ways to accept change.

Well this game is change. When change comes, people must adapted or suffer and complain.

This game is eight months old. It is set in its ways and it is not going to change. Then if the game is not going to change. Who is?

THE PLAYER!!

Form well before launch day in August of last year Anet has told us and shown us through the BWEs how this game works and how it is meant to be played.

1) It is a platform for multiple playing styles, but not center toward anyone of this styles in particular.

2) It does cater to those with limit time on their hands and some most likely have more disposable then those with too much time on their hands. This gives Anet an influx of needed income to keep this game evolving, which it as seen in the addition of the Living Story elements of the game we now have.

3) So if the game is not going to change and we must change. What do we as the player base must do?
a) have those within large guild realize they are a major player in getting the most out this game has it is designed.
i) This is done through making a dedicated officer or officers to organizing and doing DAILY Dynamic Event RAID groups. Now understand that since this is an open world game that it will get people that come and go from these DEs on a regular basis, but the CORE GUILD run DE raid group MUST stick together and move through the zone that has been chosen for that day.
ii) This game now has 26 zones with different DEs happening constantly. In three of them are Dragon bosses. (NOTE: Dragon bosses do not count for a DE raid group) if they are there when it happens more power to them. Since there are 26 zones to go through that is 26 days with something different to do. You do it as a team and thus you are RAIDing.
iii) Anet has made it clear that the more people that participate in a DE, especially in the higher level zones will get a GREATER reward.

So again it is up to us the players of this game to adapted and change to how this game works. As of yet I have not seen it happening. Who is to blame? Well it ain’t Anet. Then who is the problem?

The players themselves!!!!! now do something about it

b) small guild need to stat planning to do possible one zone a week as a guild endeavor. Since most small guilds are usually close RL friends this should be easy to do.
i) spread planning these out between people and discuss which is the zone that the guild as a whole would be interested in exploring this week.
ii) get folks to research the DEs and Meta-events that happen in these zone and decide which would suit the guild style of play. Since each small guild has a different playing style then the other guilds about them especially the larger one.

Below is a link to a list of some of the chain DEs that you can look at and researh:

http://es.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/13vk5h/dynamic_event_chain_list/

Krosslite.1950:

So again it is up to us the players of this game to adapted and change to how this game works. As of yet I have not seen it happening. Who is to blame? Well it ain’t Anet. Then who is the problem?

THE PLAYERS THEMSELVES!!!!!

That’s right, blame the players…

/sigh

The restaurant that doesn’t specialize is a cafeteria; sure you will get a variety of low standard regular customers but your lack of specialization will not get you 5 star rating or a memorable experience.

Guild wars was immensely fun the first couple of months of play; but without a solid means to see your character advance; the reality of the repetitiveness and grind is starting to sink in. An example; Look at the “no cost backpiece”

1x Prototype Fractal Capacitor (1350 fractal relics)
1x Gift of ascencion (500 fractal relics)
40x crystals or 240 philosophers stones (24 skill points)
1x Vial of condensed mist essence (pretty common drop in FotM)

the average player who abhors Korean style mmos cringes when they see this type of listing, if not.. well I do.;

and carrots which only attract certain player archtypes it promotes a sense there is actually less to do once you have reached the “endgame.” For something to have value; it has to be enjoyed. Telling someone to “go do jumping puzzles” for endgame if they don’t like them; is not a solution. It’s a design challenge.

Khai.6435:

The restaurant that doesn’t specialize is a cafeteria; sure you will get a variety of low standard regular customers but your lack of specialization will not get you 5 star rating or a memorable experience.

Guild wars was immensely fun the first couple of months of play; but without a solid means to see your character advance; the reality of the repetitiveness and grind is starting to sink in. An example; Look at the “no cost backpiece”

1x Prototype Fractal Capacitor (1350 fractal relics)
1x Gift of ascencion (500 fractal relics)
40x crystals or 240 philosophers stones (24 skill points)
1x Vial of condensed mist essence (pretty common drop in FotM)

the average player who abhors Korean style mmos cringes when they see this type of listing, if not.. well I do.;

and carrots which only attract certain player archtypes it promotes a sense there is actually less to do once you have reached the “endgame.” For something to have value; it has to be enjoyed. Telling someone to “go do jumping puzzles” for endgame if they don’t like them; is not a solution. It’s a design challenge.

Fractal, spvp as well as wvw. Are some of the main courses offered to players that enjoy that type of playing style.

I personally do not.

What attraches me is the true end-game of GW2.

Dynamic Event.

Anet has been touting DE as the endgame since 2010.

It was strongly restated late January when Anet said it would be making chages to DEs to make them more attractive.

So Anet has done it part to get the endgame back on track. So yes I will blame the lazy player base for not being aggressive enough to re-visit GW2’s actual end-game

How are dynamic events the end-game,? Are you playing the same game as the rest of us? Doing the same events over and over again is fun? How? What do you get out of it?

Burn.5401:

How are dynamic events the end-game,? Are you playing the same game as the rest of us? Doing the same events over and over again is fun? How? What do you get out of it?

It’s your fault if they aren’t fun, or so says the OP.

The players can’t do much when they have no tools to play with.
Custom content is the future of virtual worlds. This is why MMOs are flawed, because the content is consumed too quickly and people will get bored. Now, compare to minecraft, and you will see that Minecraft has a very active community because they are given customization to their virtual worlds. In GW2, we don’t have any customization, except gear, items, and clothing.

nexxe.7081:

The players can’t do much when they have no tools to play with.
Custom content is the future of virtual worlds. This is why MMOs are flawed, because the content is consumed too quickly and people will get bored. Now, compare to minecraft, and you will see that Minecraft has a very active community because they are given customization to their virtual worlds. In GW2, we don’t have any customization, except gear, items, and clothing.

Not much in the way of sandbox MMO’s anymore, unfortunately.

Burn.5401:

How are dynamic events the end-game,? Are you playing the same game as the rest of us? Doing the same events over and over again is fun? How? What do you get out of it?

So you have done ALL 1500+ DEs?

And you have done them how many times??

per Colin Johanson:

Allowing players to share experiences in an open world where other players are seen as helpful, rather than competition, is a huge component of what makes our game what it is. Open world online games are always strongest when players are encouraged and rewarded to interact as a community, to support other each other, and when the flow of the game ushers players to go places where they run into other players across all levels and have shared experiences. Our shared loot system, dynamic level adjustment system, shared resource nodes, multi-player skill combos, and the ability for every player to revive one another are all examples of key game features that help support this concept of a community-driven experience.

Guild Wars 2 is a game that’s about these shared experiences. Through the dynamic event system, every time you log in, you can experience and share something different in the world with other players. Maybe you’re in a map you’ve been to before and see an event for the first time, or you’re in the midst of an event and it dynamically scales with more players arriving, becoming more epic, or you’re fighting for control of Stonemist Castle in WvW, where each fight can play out differently.

Since launch, we’ve shown our capacity to really build and expand on this system of dynamic events with more unique events that are a living story. These special events and living stories like Wintersday, Halloween, and the Lost Shores invasion are all examples of this style of event we’ve run since the launch of GW2.

These key pillars — a sense of community and a dynamic, living world full of different experiences every time you log in — are what makes Guild Wars 2 what it is. But what does that mean looking forward to 2013?

https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/colin-johanson-on-guild-wars-2-in-the-months-ahead/

“We’re looking at having around 1500 events happen, so its going to take people a long time to get through all of them,”

http://www.vg247.com/2011/08/24/guild-wars-2-to-feature-over-1500-dynamic-events/

So again I state that facts.

Anet —- making changes to improve DEs which are the core of the game

players —- complainers who would rather talk then take action

As I have stated in another thread it is time to put up or shut up… btw when I posted this it is the last post for that thread… they shut up.

I think that players don’t do most of the dynamic events because they aren’t worth the effort. Increase the rewards for dynamic events and more players will come, like with the major DEs that now give daily chest. I think that completing an event could give a token and this tokens could be traded for laurels, guild commendations, dungeon tokens etc. This would guarantee more people coming to all areas. I personally enjoy DEs a lot and like to do them but perspective of better reward always wins

I would like to suggest an achievement(s) for people who run every dungeon in every class.

Anet —- making changes to improve DEs which are the core of the game
players —- complainers who would rather talk then take action

You need to be careful not generalise all players with legitimate concerns about the longevity about the game as “complainers”, and not to throw so much weight behind Anet being perfect and all knowing….since they had no foresight or presumption that hardcore players burn through content at a very fast speed. (hence the hasty release of Ascended gear)

In regards to the DE’s….Of these 1500 DE’s, how many of them will give significant, or worthwhile rewards? Or a sense of progression? Or a sense of earning from effort put into the event in question?

In a sense, all I can assume they’ve stated about the end game is Dynamic events, is the equivalent of “The end game is….MORE QUESTS” for any other MMO in the market. It doesn’t really get you hyped for continuing to play after hitting 80….unless you’re an altaholic and want to roll an alt, or really want to help escort those farmers from location A to location B, or do more defence from waves of mobs, again…and again…and again. Giving players more of the same stuff they were doing throughout the leveling process doesn’t really make for a compelling end-game.

It’s already a carbon copy in terms of grind, thanks to vertical stat progression that was added. May as well go the extra mile and put in raids if you ask me. I would have liked if this game was much more like GW1 but it obviously isn’t going that route, just to put that out there. I don’t want a WoW2 but hey we already got the grind, why not better and bigger raid dungeons for end-game that uses 10 players instead of 5.

Dungeons are just used to grind, a big enough raid wouldn’t even allow you to, if it had enough boss progression it would take up a lot of players time (a good thing) instead of just repeating it over and over. Add some difficulty, cool rewards, and people will flock. And no 1shot mechanics are not what I call entertaining difficulty (hint hint ANet)

Nothing more rewarding in this game than downing a boss and getting blues out of it /sarcasm

Op I agree with you to an extent because that is how I understood the idea of endgame in gW2 and that is how I play and what I enjoy.

You are going to get burned though by players who don’t agree for whatever reasons seem valid to them.

There are also an alarming amount of players who want rewards for everything or it is not worth doing.
Sadly this idea seems very much entrenched in the more traditional MMO mindset.

I do hope that Anet continues to add to the world in terms of developing the DE’s and driving the story of Tyria through that and the idea of a Living World- that we have seen only the start of.

Mathias.9657:

It’s already a carbon copy in terms of grind, thanks to vertical stat progression that was added. May as well go the extra mile and put in raids if you ask me. I would have liked if this game was much more like GW1 but it obviously isn’t going that route, just to put that out there. I don’t want a WoW2 but hey we already got the grind, why not better and bigger raid dungeons for end-game that uses 10 players instead of 5.

Dungeons are just used to grind, a big enough raid wouldn’t even allow you to, if it had enough boss progression it would take up a lot of players time (a good thing) instead of just repeating it over and over. Add some difficulty, cool rewards, and people will flock. And no 1shot mechanics are not what I call entertaining difficulty (hint hint ANet)

Nothing more rewarding in this game than downing a boss and getting blues out of it /sarcasm

I think you should look up carbon copy in the dictionary. I’m not sure it means what you think it means.

This game may indeed have some vertical progression in it, but comparing it to other games with vertical progression, anyone actually looking could see the vast differences.

Maybe you haven’t actually played those other games, and you’re a Guild Wars 1 player, who talks about them as if he had. I’ve played those others game. There’s no way anyone could actually say this game is a carbon copy of them, or even very similar.

In Rift, back when I played, I had to do certain dungeons in order to get the gear to do the next dungeon, or raid. You did one till you were completely geared up, then you did the next one. Want to know why? Because the game didn’t allow you to queue for a dungeon if you didn’t have the requisite gear.

During the leveling process in Rift, you had certain stats. When you reached level cap they added a NEW stat for each profession. One that didn’t exist while you were leveling. For casters it was focus. For tanks it was toughness. For melee classes it was “to hit”. Those had to be increased only by gear gotten from running specific dungeons. If you didn’t have that gear when you went to the LFG tool, which is how people formed parties, it would check to make sure you had that gear, or you couldn’t queue.

How can anyone say this mild vertical gear progression like that?

Vayne.8563:

Mathias.9657:

It’s already a carbon copy in terms of grind, thanks to vertical stat progression that was added. May as well go the extra mile and put in raids if you ask me. I would have liked if this game was much more like GW1 but it obviously isn’t going that route, just to put that out there. I don’t want a WoW2 but hey we already got the grind, why not better and bigger raid dungeons for end-game that uses 10 players instead of 5.

Dungeons are just used to grind, a big enough raid wouldn’t even allow you to, if it had enough boss progression it would take up a lot of players time (a good thing) instead of just repeating it over and over. Add some difficulty, cool rewards, and people will flock. And no 1shot mechanics are not what I call entertaining difficulty (hint hint ANet)

Nothing more rewarding in this game than downing a boss and getting blues out of it /sarcasm

I think you should look up carbon copy in the dictionary. I’m not sure it means what you think it means.

This game may indeed have some vertical progression in it, but comparing it to other games with vertical progression, anyone actually looking could see the vast differences.

Maybe you haven’t actually played those other games, and you’re a Guild Wars 1 player, who talks about them as if he had. I’ve played those others game. There’s no way anyone could actually say this game is a carbon copy of them, or even very similar.

In Rift, back when I played, I had to do certain dungeons in order to get the gear to do the next dungeon, or raid. You did one till you were completely geared up, then you did the next one. Want to know why? Because the game didn’t allow you to queue for a dungeon if you didn’t have the requisite gear.

During the leveling process in Rift, you had certain stats. When you reached level cap they added a NEW stat for each profession. One that didn’t exist while you were leveling. For casters it was focus. For tanks it was toughness. For melee classes it was “to hit”. Those had to be increased only by gear gotten from running specific dungeons. If you didn’t have that gear when you went to the LFG tool, which is how people formed parties, it would check to make sure you had that gear, or you couldn’t queue.

How can anyone say this mild vertical gear progression like that?

But hat was your choice to do that content. Just like in GW2. No one made you do it. You didn’t need to do it. It was your choice.

clay.7849:

Vayne.8563:

Mathias.9657:

It’s already a carbon copy in terms of grind, thanks to vertical stat progression that was added. May as well go the extra mile and put in raids if you ask me. I would have liked if this game was much more like GW1 but it obviously isn’t going that route, just to put that out there. I don’t want a WoW2 but hey we already got the grind, why not better and bigger raid dungeons for end-game that uses 10 players instead of 5.

Dungeons are just used to grind, a big enough raid wouldn’t even allow you to, if it had enough boss progression it would take up a lot of players time (a good thing) instead of just repeating it over and over. Add some difficulty, cool rewards, and people will flock. And no 1shot mechanics are not what I call entertaining difficulty (hint hint ANet)

Nothing more rewarding in this game than downing a boss and getting blues out of it /sarcasm

I think you should look up carbon copy in the dictionary. I’m not sure it means what you think it means.

This game may indeed have some vertical progression in it, but comparing it to other games with vertical progression, anyone actually looking could see the vast differences.

Maybe you haven’t actually played those other games, and you’re a Guild Wars 1 player, who talks about them as if he had. I’ve played those others game. There’s no way anyone could actually say this game is a carbon copy of them, or even very similar.

In Rift, back when I played, I had to do certain dungeons in order to get the gear to do the next dungeon, or raid. You did one till you were completely geared up, then you did the next one. Want to know why? Because the game didn’t allow you to queue for a dungeon if you didn’t have the requisite gear.

During the leveling process in Rift, you had certain stats. When you reached level cap they added a NEW stat for each profession. One that didn’t exist while you were leveling. For casters it was focus. For tanks it was toughness. For melee classes it was “to hit”. Those had to be increased only by gear gotten from running specific dungeons. If you didn’t have that gear when you went to the LFG tool, which is how people formed parties, it would check to make sure you had that gear, or you couldn’t queue.

How can anyone say this mild vertical gear progression like that?

But hat was your choice to do that content. Just like in GW2. No one made you do it. You didn’t need to do it. It was your choice.

Actually it’s not quite that simple. In that game, you were literally funneled into it, because there was only one single epic questline in the game and it ran through a raid. Do you know how people in Guild Wars 2 complain that the personal story ends in a dungeon. Well in Rift, the epic quest chain went through every dungeon and then the first raid. If you didn’t want to gear up for the raid, you could never finish the only epic quest line in the game. But it was more than that.

in Guild Wars 2, dynamic events are repeatable. In Rift, you did a quest and it was gone. All you had left were Rifts and Zone WIde events. The problem there is that Zone Wide events could only be done with enough people doing them, but no one did them. At all. It would be like if the group events that people couldn’t solo in Guild Wars 2 covered the entire zone. And you really couldn’t go back to earlier zones, because there was nothing to do there. The creatures wouldn’t even attack you.

The entire game funneled you into doing one thing and one thing only. People accuse Guild Wars 2 of that, but in reality, I’m quite happy to go back and play in earlier zones due to down leveling and there are plenty of events I can do and enjoy here.

In Rift, you really didn’t have much choice.

4 Suggestions from me on this:

1) All DE’s shown on the map from anywhere in a zone (this has been stated but frankly it is the biggest need)
2) Major DE countdown timers (Maw, Fire Elemental, etc)
3) More DE’s should have been multi-part chain DE’s, possibly even zone spanning
4) Major stuff needs to happen, example: A coordinated Svanir/Dredge/Grawl offensive that pushes everything in Wayfarer Foothills back to the starting area, which then results in a counter offensive to push them back. NPC’s would allow for multiple paths (maybe the Vigil lead the charge to get back outposts, Whispers infiltrate Moleberia, and Priory work to minimize damage and keep Joten out of the fight) each giving equal rewards. This culminates in a similar Dome DE but would be far larger with more then one Champ to handle at the end.

Ordika.9513:

4 Suggestions from me on this:

1) All DE’s shown on the map from anywhere in a zone (this has been stated but frankly it is the biggest need)
2) Major DE countdown timers (Maw, Fire Elemental, etc)
3) More DE’s should have been multi-part chain DE’s, possibly even zone spanning
4) Major stuff needs to happen, example: A coordinated Svanir/Dredge/Grawl offensive that pushes everything in Wayfarer Foothills back to the starting area, which then results in a counter offensive to push them back. NPC’s would allow for multiple paths (maybe the Vigil lead the charge to get back outposts, Whispers infiltrate Moleberia, and Priory work to minimize damage and keep Joten out of the fight) each giving equal rewards. This culminates in a similar Dome DE but would be far larger with more then one Champ to handle at the end.

1) I walked into Frostgorge Sound the day and had 2 orange circles on either side of me as I entered the zone. The one to the left more group oriented while the one to the right I was able to complete on my own

2) You mean one made and supported by Anet themselves. Would be nice don’t disagree

3) How do we know that these do not already exist in the higher end zones. I know for a fact that in the PAX 2011 a panel was made to make such an event for Timberline Falls zone

4) who know the living story setup may cause this to happen someday

Krosslite.1950:

Ordika.9513:

4 Suggestions from me on this:

1) All DE’s shown on the map from anywhere in a zone (this has been stated but frankly it is the biggest need)
2) Major DE countdown timers (Maw, Fire Elemental, etc)
3) More DE’s should have been multi-part chain DE’s, possibly even zone spanning
4) Major stuff needs to happen, example: A coordinated Svanir/Dredge/Grawl offensive that pushes everything in Wayfarer Foothills back to the starting area, which then results in a counter offensive to push them back. NPC’s would allow for multiple paths (maybe the Vigil lead the charge to get back outposts, Whispers infiltrate Moleberia, and Priory work to minimize damage and keep Joten out of the fight) each giving equal rewards. This culminates in a similar Dome DE but would be far larger with more then one Champ to handle at the end.

1) I walked into Frostgorge Sound the day and had 2 orange circles on either side of me as I entered the zone. The one to the left more group oriented while the one to the right I was able to complete on my own

2) You mean one made and supported by Anet themselves. Would be nice don’t disagree

3) How do we know that these do not already exist in the higher end zones. I know for a fact that in the PAX 2011 a panel was made to make such an event for Timberline Falls zone

4) who know the living story setup may cause this to happen someday

1. - I mean if you entered Frostforge and there was a DE running on the other side of the zone you would know about it when you entered
2. - yes something supported and made by ANet
3. - I think you forgot to finish your thought on
4. - I’m thinking along the lines of Invasions in Rift, the story of Wayfarer Foothills lends itself already to the scenario I laid out, so while the Living Story may add things like this, they laid the ground work for these zone spanning stories already, seems they just didn’t flesh them out

So by getting the guild together and (for instance) attending The Shatterer event, you are raiding?

Erm…no. What you are doing is facerolling a dragons toenail. Just no.

I dunno how others feel about this, but i’d love to see an endgame similar to WoW raids.

Just make dungeons like they have now, but instead of 5 man make it 40 man. You can forgo the gear treadmill and just add epic looking gear.

Just something that requires a coordinated effort on a large scale with bang-your-head-against-the-wall difficulty.

I have fun when me and my friend do events together. We have a nice level of challenge staying alive while AoEing everything down.

Then more people show up because they notice progress is being made on the event, and completely trivialize it. Thanks guys. You really helped us out there.

The scaling needs improvement. Otherwise, these “open world raids” will result in the same fiasco as the daily rare for Behemoth/Maw/Elemental/etc

pricer.5091:

So by getting the guild together and (for instance) attending The Shatterer event, you are raiding?

Erm…no. What you are doing is facerolling a dragons toenail. Just no.

no.

DE raid groups would for example go to Orr. In an organized split go into two groups. Group A would then go to Point A and start working through the DEs
Group B would go to Point B and do the same
per Anet at some point they should meet thus changing the outcome of the DE they meet at. They then choose which way to go as a full group once again and continue to the conclusion of that web

The Orr chains are really no joke. Some of them are challenging. You do have to have some coordination to cap the Temple of Balthazar for example.

It’s a good idea. I like it.

RebelYell.7132:

I have fun when me and my friend do events together. We have a nice level of challenge staying alive while AoEing everything down.

Then more people show up because they notice progress is being made on the event, and completely trivialize it. Thanks guys. You really helped us out there.

The scaling needs improvement. Otherwise, these “open world raids” will result in the same fiasco as the daily rare for Behemoth/Maw/Elemental/etc

yes I agree this may happen, but what if you hit a point where it scales up. I was in one the other day near Fort Trinity and it said kill 5 undead. So I start to do this. Suddenly it jumped to kill 10 undead. Then three people showed up and and it was still a challenge. The game saw the other three in the area and made it harder.

There ARE others out there just like this. Could they turn in to a SB/Maw/Elee situation. Maybe in time. Yes

Ordika.9513:

1. - I think you forgot to finish your thought on
2. - I’m thinking along the lines of Invasions in Rift, the story of Wayfarer Foothills lends itself already to the scenario I laid out, so while the Living Story may add things like this, they laid the ground work for these zone spanning stories already, seems they just didn’t flesh them out

3) Nah I think I finished it

4) The living story maybe why it has not been fleshed out. Maybe in time other Living story events will give you your wish

This reminds me of when Steve Jobbs told users that they were holding their phone the wrong way (with the iPhone 4 antennagate situation).

Players do not need to change, they need to play. If they play and enjoy it, great. If they play and hate it, leave. If the majority of players stay, then ANet has done a good job and can pat themselves on the back. If the majority of players leave, then ANet needs to rethink some things. It’s pretty much as simple as that.

I believe that ANet has done a great job with this game, and I appreciate that they do a great job of listening to the community and applying recommendations/changes based on feedback.

Krosslite.1950:

A call to action: emergent play

Eve Online is that way —→

Neural.1824:

Krosslite.1950:

A call to action: emergent play

Eve Online is that way —->

Best post yet.

To be Hones, you talk about raids, but how about the squad from commander, or just regulard RAID groups are added? I like to see everyones HP in small screens if I wish, or down states like in PVP, or something like it.

That way coordinating would be so much easier and it just LACKS that option.
A lot of nice changes that need adapting to, but its just lacking stuff as well, because a group just isnt going to cut it for a legion event, or any event in that case imo.

Neural.1824:

Krosslite.1950:

A call to action: emergent play

Eve Online is that way —->

EVE is an offer rated dying game that has no comparison to GW2 imo

miniL.7361:

To be Hones, you talk about raids, but how about the squad from commander, or just regulard RAID groups are added? I like to see everyones HP in small screens if I wish, or down states like in PVP, or something like it.

That way coordinating would be so much easier and it just LACKS that option.
A lot of nice changes that need adapting to, but its just lacking stuff as well, because a group just isnt going to cut it for a legion event, or any event in that case imo.

That has no place in an open world gaming system, which this game is. Guilds are the ones that have to give this a try through coordinated command through their voice chat.

As I have said I have heard of no one doing this period.

This would be the raid system for this game, which is how it should be

I completely agree with the OP. The idea is really respectable.

Maybe it’s my age, or the fact that I’m relatively new to MMOs, but I honestly struggle to grasp the widespread obsession with “endgame”. First and foremost, I enjoy playing this game, and I don’t want to start to play a different game when I hit level 80. If I got bored, I will play something else. Second, we have a huge, beautiful, wittily crafted world out there. I want to be in this world. Why would I want to crawl into a dungeon and repeat it twenty times per day? I want to have fun, I want immersion, that’s why I play games. Repetition kills immersion.

Corvax.1675:

I completely agree with the OP. The idea is really respectable.

Maybe it’s my age, or the fact that I’m relatively new to MMOs, but I honestly struggle to grasp the widespread obsession with “endgame”. First and foremost, I enjoy playing this game, and I don’t want to start to play a different game when I hit level 80. If I got bored, I will play something else. Second, we have a huge, beautiful, wittily crafted world out there. I want to be in this world. Why would I want to crawl into a dungeon and repeat it twenty times per day? I want to have fun, I want immersion, that’s why I play games. Repetition kills immersion.

Thanks for understanding where I am coming from. And just for an understanding of where I am coming from.
I have been in MMOs for 20 years. Starting with a MUD in 1993. I have been down all the road and seen all the layouts.
This game does offer Raid content people just refuse to to it because it is in the open world.
Doing the DEs will give them more immersion as you are stating as well as raids and no telling what else.

Krosslite.1950:

Neural.1824:

Krosslite.1950:

A call to action: emergent play

Eve Online is that way —->

EVE is an offer rated dying game that has no comparison to GW2 imo

http://massively.joystiq.com/2013/02/28/eve-online-hits-500-000-subscribers-heads-into-second-decade/

Their subs keep going up for a dying game. Funny how that works.

Wetpaw.3487:

I believe a major problem for a portion of GW2 playerbase is the fact that endgame is really catered to the altholic. 5years of development built around the idea of enjoying alts and taking them to min/max very casually and w/o skill. That is GW2 endgame.

This is great for the playerbase above, imo will not change. So will the other players adapt to this playstyle? Nope, and that is fine. Everyone can’t enjoy the same thing, arguing a change in GW2 direction will not change GW2 or that playerbase (myself) that enjoy meaningful progression, subscription model, & effect of trinity in pve/pvp.

What is “meaningful progression”, exactly? Inflating your stats incrementally to match the new mobs in the new dungeon you have to run over and over? This is an illusion, and a bad one.

GW2 has a great system, it is lacking one thing and one thing only – content. The problem with the end game in Guild Wars 2 is that there just simply isn’t enough content yet to satisfy long term goals. We don’t need new levels/gear levels that lock you into a linear ‘progression’ through content gating and a false sense of achievement, we need things like:

Lots of new skins
New crafting goals
New weapon types
New metaevents
Lots of new skills that can be acquired through specialized means
Broader variety of zones to farm spread across the existing level range (the zones are beautiful, but they’re kind of samey and get repetitive)
Lots of new dungeons with improved encounters.
New WvW and stpvp maps
More cultures and cool NPCs to interact with
Eventually, new playable races and classes
Perhaps an expansion of the current skill # from 10 to 12-16

The scaling system that already exists in the game means that old content is never made totally obsolete, so unlike a game like WoW, where the only meaningful stuff to do in the game is stuff that’s brand new, all content here continues accumulating and remains usable. The more they add to the game, the more you can vary your gameplay with any particular character and the less stale the game will be.

guild wars 2 is not fun

Now lets me honest about this. The first few months it was really fun and then everything just slowed down and became a grind. A game is suppose to make you come back to it and be like. I want to play this game every day. But guild wars 2 does not do that. For me personally I log on to the game to do guild events, But that is it really. I come back after a big patch and then leave again because their is simply nothing for me to do. Yes I could make alts but why would i ?. I am not really a alt person. Yes I could do Achievements.. But again what is the point ?. I could do world vs world or Spvp. Well yeah but I am not a pvp person and wvw in the early mornings is not really that fun.

3 – Dynamic events are not Dynamic.

I assumed and figured that dynamic events would well be Dynamic and its not the case. I do not go to a zone and see that a city has been taken over and I have to free it. No I see everyone inside of the city dead and one Npc inside of it that I have to kill. I thought and maybe I am wrong about this. But I remember hearing that one day you will go and see a zone is fine and the next the zone is getting attacked and you might have to free the city as this spur on another sort of events. I saw it in beta and yet in the live game it does not happen ?. To be honest Rift did the zone invasons right. walking into a zone and getting attacked and you having the free that zone was really fun. Guild wars 2 does not in my opinon have anything like that and its sad because that would make things really fun.

Not only is their no new Content in the game. But their is nothing to do at level 80. What about those people that do not like Achievements or Fractals or World vs world or spvp. The people that at level 80 cant do anything ?. Because I am one of them and to be honest I am really borde at level 80 because their is nothing for me to do

Einlanzer.1627:

What is “meaningful progression”, exactly? Inflating your stats incrementally to match the new mobs in the new dungeon you have to run over and over? This is an illusion, and a bad one.

News flash. Everything in games are illusions. None of it is actually happening.

As for progression, gaining stats to become more strong to take on new content is actually progression.

Not gaining stats so that your character remains stagnant is not progression.

The argument is that you gain skill, so your character is stronger because you are better.
Counter argument is that you gain skill in both models. Another counter argument is that you are role playing a character, and adding stats is a form of representing progression for your role played character.

Jemmi.6058:

Einlanzer.1627:

What is “meaningful progression”, exactly? Inflating your stats incrementally to match the new mobs in the new dungeon you have to run over and over? This is an illusion, and a bad one.

News flash. Everything in games are illusions. None of it is actually happening.

As for progression, gaining stats to become more strong to take on new content is actually progression.

Not gaining stats so that your character remains stagnant is not progression.

The argument is that you gain skill, so your character is stronger because you are better.
Counter argument is that you gain skill in both models. Another counter argument is that you are role playing a character, and adding stats is a form of representing progression for your role played character.

Way to completely miss the mark on the illusion thing. And, the argument isn’t that you gain skill – its that you gain stats. Gaining skills or things that require more skill would be a generally good example of horizontal progression, which is generally accepted as the better option of the two.

Your whole argument is flawed because where you use the word skill, it should be replaced with “stats”. And that has nothing to do with skill.

clay.7849:

Jemmi.6058:

Einlanzer.1627:

What is “meaningful progression”, exactly? Inflating your stats incrementally to match the new mobs in the new dungeon you have to run over and over? This is an illusion, and a bad one.

News flash. Everything in games are illusions. None of it is actually happening.

As for progression, gaining stats to become more strong to take on new content is actually progression.

Not gaining stats so that your character remains stagnant is not progression.

The argument is that you gain skill, so your character is stronger because you are better.
Counter argument is that you gain skill in both models. Another counter argument is that you are role playing a character, and adding stats is a form of representing progression for your role played character.

Way to completely miss the mark on the illusion thing. And, the argument isn’t that you gain skill – its that you gain stats. Gaining skills or things that require more skill would be a generally good example of horizontal progression, which is generally accepted as the better option of the two.

Your whole argument is flawed because where you use the word skill, it should be replaced with “stats”. And that has nothing to do with skill.

Thanks for beating me to it.

In essence, when you gain stats you aren’t really gaining anything. It’s just a numeric inflation that means nothing for your character. Hence, it’s an illusion. Furthermore, it’s an illusion that serves no purpose other than to gate content and lock you into a forced linear approach to the game, which actually does harm to the cohesion of the game world.

When you gain skills, skins, etc., you actually are gaining material things that affect the way you both see and play your character. In other words, it’s real content. Real content that helps immerse you into the world without obsoleting 90% of the game at any given moment.

Progression can be added through story, linked progressive dungeons (not FotM), titles, cosmetics (very subjective), guilds, different spell effects (cosmetic). Progression doesn’t automatically need to mean a bigger +25 two handed great axe of rabbit slaying, or bigger muscles or brains for our toons.

There are many ways Anet could progress the game and keep progressives happy while not stepping on the toes of the horizontal crowd. Personally, I hope they find a way.

Einlanzer.1627:

clay.7849:

Jemmi.6058:

Einlanzer.1627:

What is “meaningful progression”, exactly? Inflating your stats incrementally to match the new mobs in the new dungeon you have to run over and over? This is an illusion, and a bad one.

News flash. Everything in games are illusions. None of it is actually happening.

As for progression, gaining stats to become more strong to take on new content is actually progression.

Not gaining stats so that your character remains stagnant is not progression.

The argument is that you gain skill, so your character is stronger because you are better.
Counter argument is that you gain skill in both models. Another counter argument is that you are role playing a character, and adding stats is a form of representing progression for your role played character.

Way to completely miss the mark on the illusion thing. And, the argument isn’t that you gain skill – its that you gain stats. Gaining skills or things that require more skill would be a generally good example of horizontal progression, which is generally accepted as the better option of the two.

Your whole argument is flawed because where you use the word skill, it should be replaced with “stats”. And that has nothing to do with skill.

Thanks for beating me to it.

Any time.

clay.7849:

Jemmi.6058:

Einlanzer.1627:

What is “meaningful progression”, exactly? Inflating your stats incrementally to match the new mobs in the new dungeon you have to run over and over? This is an illusion, and a bad one.

News flash. Everything in games are illusions. None of it is actually happening.

As for progression, gaining stats to become more strong to take on new content is actually progression.

Not gaining stats so that your character remains stagnant is not progression.

The argument is that you gain skill, so your character is stronger because you are better.
Counter argument is that you gain skill in both models. Another counter argument is that you are role playing a character, and adding stats is a form of representing progression for your role played character.

Way to completely miss the mark on the illusion thing. And, the argument isn’t that you gain skill – its that you gain stats. Gaining skills or things that require more skill would be a generally good example of horizontal progression, which is generally accepted as the better option of the two.

Your whole argument is flawed because where you use the word skill, it should be replaced with “stats”. And that has nothing to do with skill.

Curious, how are these new skills different than your old skills? Do they offer easier ways of dealing with content? Would having these skills put you in a better position than people who do not have these skills?

clay.7849:

Jemmi.6058:

Einlanzer.1627:

What is “meaningful progression”, exactly? Inflating your stats incrementally to match the new mobs in the new dungeon you have to run over and over? This is an illusion, and a bad one.

News flash. Everything in games are illusions. None of it is actually happening.

As for progression, gaining stats to become more strong to take on new content is actually progression.

Not gaining stats so that your character remains stagnant is not progression.

The argument is that you gain skill, so your character is stronger because you are better.
Counter argument is that you gain skill in both models. Another counter argument is that you are role playing a character, and adding stats is a form of representing progression for your role played character.

Way to completely miss the mark on the illusion thing. And, the argument isn’t that you gain skill – its that you gain stats. Gaining skills or things that require more skill would be a generally good example of horizontal progression, which is generally accepted as the better option of the two.

Your whole argument is flawed because where you use the word skill, it should be replaced with “stats”. And that has nothing to do with skill.

I think you mis-read my post.

I said that your argument is that you as a player gain skill, and my counter argument is you can still become more skillful at playing while also gaining stats.

Generally accepted as better by who? Yes, there are some who say it is better and some who say it is worse. This is a horrible and baseless argument.

My whole argument is not flawed based off my use of the word skill, as that wasn’t even part of my argument? I used stat where I meant it and skill where I meant it.

As for the illusion, that was a sarcastic remark meant to provoke. Yes, not a very good argument. However, I believe your point about stat progression as an illusion, is that you mean you do not actually get any stronger as the relative strength stays the same. This is incorrect and only makes sense if you are always fighting the next things. You gain better stats to unlock new content and are stronger vs the previous stuff. This can be compared to running AC as a level 30, running AC as a level 50, running AC as a level 80 in greens, running AC as a level 80 in rares, running AC as a level 80 in exotics. You are definitely getting stronger and there is no illusion to this fact.

If, on the other hand, you are saying that you are not getting stronger, because you as a player have not gained any skill, then my original sarcastic retort holds. As it is a game, all the perceived improvements are an illusion.

I believe it may be in your best interest to work on your reading comprehension. I also suggest that you accept that different people have different opinions about progression. I accept that you prefer horizontal and that is fine, but don’t tell me that I am wrong for preferring vertical progression.

killcannon.2576:

clay.7849:

Jemmi.6058:

Einlanzer.1627:

What is “meaningful progression”, exactly? Inflating your stats incrementally to match the new mobs in the new dungeon you have to run over and over? This is an illusion, and a bad one.

News flash. Everything in games are illusions. None of it is actually happening.

As for progression, gaining stats to become more strong to take on new content is actually progression.

Not gaining stats so that your character remains stagnant is not progression.

The argument is that you gain skill, so your character is stronger because you are better.
Counter argument is that you gain skill in both models. Another counter argument is that you are role playing a character, and adding stats is a form of representing progression for your role played character.

Way to completely miss the mark on the illusion thing. And, the argument isn’t that you gain skill – its that you gain stats. Gaining skills or things that require more skill would be a generally good example of horizontal progression, which is generally accepted as the better option of the two.

Your whole argument is flawed because where you use the word skill, it should be replaced with “stats”. And that has nothing to do with skill.

Curious, how are these new skills different than your old skills? Do they offer easier ways of dealing with content? Would having these skills put you in a better position than people who do not have these skills?

In a sense, yes, because they expand your versatility. They just might not give you an immediate “I win” button, which is desirable as it forces you to rely on actual skill as well as experimentation and trial/error, rather than your characters stats, which makes the game both more engaging and more realistic.

If you can’t see that that’s superior game design, I just don’t know what else to tell you.

Einlanzer.1627:

killcannon.2576:

clay.7849:

Jemmi.6058:

Einlanzer.1627:

What is “meaningful progression”, exactly? Inflating your stats incrementally to match the new mobs in the new dungeon you have to run over and over? This is an illusion, and a bad one.

News flash. Everything in games are illusions. None of it is actually happening.

As for progression, gaining stats to become more strong to take on new content is actually progression.

Not gaining stats so that your character remains stagnant is not progression.

The argument is that you gain skill, so your character is stronger because you are better.
Counter argument is that you gain skill in both models. Another counter argument is that you are role playing a character, and adding stats is a form of representing progression for your role played character.

Way to completely miss the mark on the illusion thing. And, the argument isn’t that you gain skill – its that you gain stats. Gaining skills or things that require more skill would be a generally good example of horizontal progression, which is generally accepted as the better option of the two.

Your whole argument is flawed because where you use the word skill, it should be replaced with “stats”. And that has nothing to do with skill.

Curious, how are these new skills different than your old skills? Do they offer easier ways of dealing with content? Would having these skills put you in a better position than people who do not have these skills?

In a sense, yes, because they expand your versatility. They just might not give you an immediate “I win” button, which is desirable as it forces you to rely on actual skill, rather than your characters stats, which makes the game both more engaging and more realistic.

If you can’t see that that’s superior game design, I just don’t know what else to tell you.

You just described the current system in place. Thank you.

killcannon.2576:

Einlanzer.1627:

killcannon.2576:

clay.7849:

Jemmi.6058:

Einlanzer.1627:

What is “meaningful progression”, exactly? Inflating your stats incrementally to match the new mobs in the new dungeon you have to run over and over? This is an illusion, and a bad one.

News flash. Everything in games are illusions. None of it is actually happening.

As for progression, gaining stats to become more strong to take on new content is actually progression.

Not gaining stats so that your character remains stagnant is not progression.

The argument is that you gain skill, so your character is stronger because you are better.
Counter argument is that you gain skill in both models. Another counter argument is that you are role playing a character, and adding stats is a form of representing progression for your role played character.

Way to completely miss the mark on the illusion thing. And, the argument isn’t that you gain skill – its that you gain stats. Gaining skills or things that require more skill would be a generally good example of horizontal progression, which is generally accepted as the better option of the two.

Your whole argument is flawed because where you use the word skill, it should be replaced with “stats”. And that has nothing to do with skill.

Curious, how are these new skills different than your old skills? Do they offer easier ways of dealing with content? Would having these skills put you in a better position than people who do not have these skills?

In a sense, yes, because they expand your versatility. They just might not give you an immediate “I win” button, which is desirable as it forces you to rely on actual skill, rather than your characters stats, which makes the game both more engaging and more realistic.

If you can’t see that that’s superior game design, I just don’t know what else to tell you.

You just described the current system in place. Thank you.

And? Did you think I was complaining about the system?