Guild Wars 2

So I just finished doing COE path 2 with some random pug, and I gotta tell ya, this was one of the most fun experiences running a dungeon I’ve had in sometime.

Most people in my group were not very experienced in the game it seemed, or at least they didn’t know how to “properly” run through dungeons. Their under 3k AP’s would suggest that too I guess.

But this is what made the experience fun, because of the fact that they didn’t know how to stack. We ran it the way Anet meant it to be ran, and that’s with out stacking.

I got so used to playing the way we are all accustomed too while running dungeons, that it just became trivial really. Having to actually survive these encounters and manage my skills properly is what made this run so good.

So I don’t want to stand in a corner no more, I want to actually fight a boss.

Stacking needs to go! (at least in major encounters, could still be good strategy for mobs though).

Did you notice how one of the alpha’s aoe’s that he spawns is ice in the middle and others are rock in the middle? (Rock in the middle is actually safe to stand in, you don’t even need to dodge). I remember when stacking was fresh I used to tell the stackers to send the person with ice away (until someone goes down the same person always gets ice), but I would get the answer of “just dodge, okay?”. Alpha has some very interesting mechanics. I wish that more people would see them really.

Stacking is kinda boring, that’s true and it’s up to you, if you want to stack or not ^^
If you don’t want to stack, just search a party on your own and write in the lfg tool, that you don’t want to stack or even better: take newbies with you.
Other people maybe just want to rush the dungeon, then you shouldn’t ‘go in there way’. Just search, what you like to play

Who exactly is stopping you from forming your own " no stacking " party and going at the content that way?
Nobody.

JackDaniels.1697:

So I just finished doing COE path 2 with some random pug, and I gotta tell ya, this was one of the most fun experiences running a dungeon I’ve had in sometime.

Most people in my group were not very experienced in the game it seemed, or at least they didn’t know how to “properly” run through dungeons. Their under 3k AP’s would suggest that too I guess.

But this is what made the experience fun, because of the fact that they didn’t know how to stack. We ran it the way Anet meant it to be ran, and that’s with out stacking.

I got so used to playing the way we are all accustomed too while running dungeons, that it just became trivial really. Having to actually survive these encounters and manage my skills properly is what made this run so good.

So I don’t want to stand in a corner no more, I want to actually fight a boss.

Stacking needs to go! (at least in major encounters, could still be good strategy for mobs though).

Ah thank you, this gives me hope. I’ve all but given up on dungeons since it’s becoming rarer and rarer to find anyone who doesn’t just ‘skip-n-stack’. I’ve noticed even in parties with 4 people who are new to the dungeon if there is one who is dead set on racing to the finish line shouting ‘STACK HERE’ commands it’s human instinct to simply follow orders.

The few times I’ve been able to find enough people who share my dislike of ‘skip-n-stack’ speedruns I’ve had a blast. When the dungeons are actually played through as intended they’re really fun and challenging.

It seems to me ArenaNet is aware of these holes in their level designs for the original dungeons and have been working hard to not make the same mistakes in newer ones (TA Aetherblade path for instance). I do hope they will address these loopholes in the original dungeons in the future.

Harper.4173:

Who exactly is stopping you from forming your own " no stacking " party and going at the content that way?
Nobody.

Listen to yourself.

Kampfpanda.3405:

Stacking is kinda boring, that’s true and it’s up to you, if you want to stack or not ^^
If you don’t want to stack, just search a party on your own and write in the lfg tool, that you don’t want to stack or even better: take newbies with you.
Other people maybe just want to rush the dungeon, then you shouldn’t ‘go in there way’. Just search, what you like to play

True, I could do this. But newbies don’t stay newbies forever, and they will learn that stacking means getting through dungeons faster and more efficiently. So you see, the problem will always persist. I’m for the hope that the mechanics will change for boss encounters to avoid this.

JackDaniels.1697:

True, I could do this. But newbies don’t stay newbies forever, and they will learn that stacking means getting through dungeons faster and more efficiently. So you see, the problem will always persist. I’m for the hope that the mechanics will change for boss encounters to avoid this.

Suggestion – boss damage unblockable and X10 if all players are in the same 0.5 square meters. Or even better – player collision, means that standing on the exact same tile is impossible.

I alsou would lik to se less stacking and more tactics. And i would like to congratulate anrena net on some amazing boss mehanics

My guild dungeon runs tend to be pretty free form. We’ll stack if we feel like it but it seems silly to bother in a lot of the Alpha fights. Last time I was in there we had a PuG along who kept trying to stack only to have the rest of us spread out. After the fight s/he said s/he enjoyed it much more that way even if it seemed to take longer.

Oh. The same thread that gets posted daily in the dungeon subforum.

I was hoping for something fresh.

Stacking is clearly intended as many player skills have a small AOE radius. Don’t like stacking? Post your own LFGs and state so.

Every boss should be able to counter stacking, but anet need to do something to their ridiculous health bar and stupid AI…

Not all players have the same level of skills or a good connection, and almost everyone is used to join pugs in dungeons.

Now imagine doing a run with people who, sometimes, find difficult even stacking, right now you can carry them anyway if everyone is in the right corner… but what if we are forced to run dungeons in the proper way?

Rage, a lot of rage, many people would simply stop running almost all the paths, the same people will start complaining that it’s too hard making money in this game (even more than now) and probably in a short time would simply quit playing.

I find running dungeons in the way they were ment a lot more fun of what we have now, but it’s also time-consuming, A LOT, if your party is not properly prepared.

Would you spend your time wiping 3-4 times, per path, doing Alpha daily?
Would you spend your time wiping 3-4 times, per path, doing Kholer daily?

Then you can say: play with your guildies, but I don’t believe anyone is so naive to think this would be a real solution for the whole community.
It’s like saying: you don’t want do be kicked out of the dungeon if the host leaves? Open the instance by yourself.

We need a concrete solution, not a palliative.
Anet need to change dungeons thinking that the current time is what players are disposed to invest, according to this rebalance all the rest.

Sadly it seems like anet is going in the opposite direction nerfing our damage, without revising the enemies.

I strongly hope this is just a first step, and after balancing our characters they will start balancing gamebreaking mechanics like: one-shot hits, epilectics effects that totally obscure enemies which already suffer from bad telegraphed attacks, mobs with no drop or junk quality loot, condition cap, etc.

Just my two cents.

Erick Alastor.3917:

Now imagine doing a run with people who, sometimes, find difficult even stacking, right now you can carry them anyway if everyone is in the right corner… but what if we are forced to run dungeons in the proper way?

Would you spend your time wiping 3-4 times, per path, doing Alpha daily?
Would you spend your time wiping 3-4 times, per path, doing Kholer daily?

Are you running a guardian? Because I found out that carrying pugs is hard because they stack. Take the spider in AC or Alpha. Your party is full of either low AP god knows what traits warriors, or full of squishies, or full of low levels (well in Ac’s case anyway) and they go “stack”. Then they immediately wipe. They go “stack” again. Wipe. Then they start raging “this worked in all the other groups I’ve been in!”. Then (if you’re the opener this is a lucky situation) they leave and you can pull in an experienced player and actually clear content. I think that if people insist using the stacking with nubs in their team they should teach them exactly why stacking works. Tell warriors how to maximize damage and how to dodge at the right times when there’s nobody to lessen the damage dealt to them. Teach guardians how to cast blocks on their party.

When I use the LFG tool and see a “No stacking” in the description I almost always join that group. It’s often more fun, slower, but fun. So if you don’t like stacking do myself and others like me a favor and advertise your LFG as such. We are here for you.

Donari.5237:

After the fight s/he said s/he enjoyed it much more that way even if it seemed to take longer.

Totally irrelevant to the topic at hand, but I just wanted to commend you for your egalitarian choice of words. Most people I run into in the gaming world tend to assume all players are male until told otherwise, so it’s cool to see someone else who doesn’t make unwarranted assumptions.

Back on topic: I also prefer to run dungeons without stacking; it is indeed way more fun. I’m lucky enough to have a group of irl friends I play with who feel the same way. To the OP, I’d suggest maybe finding a group of people who like the non-stacking way, who you can group up with on a regular basis? Maybe even start/join a guild with that idea?

I thought stacking was the way ANet intended the game to be played. I didn’t think so at first mind you, but after getting infarcted for calling stacking an exploit (well, I said those who speed run abuse stacking, which is an exploit…got a slap on the wrist for ‘accusing players of inappropriate behaviour’ for my troubles), ANet’s silence on the subject of stacking, their decision to fiddle with high dmg numbers rather than fiddle with AI, and even a post explaining the validity of skipping every mob in the dungeon (on a tangent, but often paired with stacking ‘problems’) to players who thought that wasn’t the way the game was meant to be played I’ve recently determined that skip-stack-skip-stack-profit was the intended playstyle.

Don’t get me wrong-you paid for the game and have every reason to play however you want, just be careful of throwing around ‘accusations’ that the practice/behaviour most employ in pve isn’t the type of behaviour intended in the first place. And if this is how they intended (or at the very least have no objections) the game to be played it won’t be ‘fixed’…because there’s nothing wrong you see.

Oh, lastly, honestly I don’t want the AI to be improved anymore-I’ve gotten used to not really having to pay attention when I play gw2 and I kinda want it to stay that way now…is that weird? I mean I do play challenging games, but gw2 is just when I want to turn my brain off and I kinda want it to stay that way now. Idk if that means they succeeded in making a casual game or failed in making an engaging game (mechanically) and I’ve just grown accustomed but it is what it is. I’m actually serious…don’t want challenging stuff in gw2 anymore.

Psynch.4087:

Harper.4173:

Who exactly is stopping you from forming your own " no stacking " party and going at the content that way?
Nobody.

Listen to yourself.

You listen to yourself, this guy is asking for it to be removed. Some of us like to stack.

The dungeons need more fights like the Bomb Golem fights in COE. Those are extraordinary fun. One thing that would prevent the stacking would be to stop the golems from leaving the room. That would force the players to go in. Or have the door shut behind them. The fact that you have to engage the golems makes for sometimes tense fights. A number of times, as the sole warrior in the group, I’d be the one running around smashing the golems while the rest of the party is frantically mashing the F key to get the security to shut down.

Another way that Anet could remove the tendency for stacking is have the AI detect that the players are on the same location at which point it would become invulnerable until they separate. This could be implemented in much the same way that the game stops ranged players from standing on higher ground against a melee boss or mob exploiting the inability of mobs in climbing and jumping.

XApocalypse.8739:

Psynch.4087:

Harper.4173:

Who exactly is stopping you from forming your own " no stacking " party and going at the content that way?
Nobody.

Listen to yourself.

You listen to yourself, this guy is asking for it to be removed. Some of us like to take the fun out of the game.

*fixed

Psynch.4087:

Harper.4173:

Who exactly is stopping you from forming your own " no stacking " party and going at the content that way?
Nobody.

Listen to yourself.

I have and I’m making sense. Explain.

Okamie.9270:

XApocalypse.8739:

Psynch.4087:

Harper.4173:

Who exactly is stopping you from forming your own " no stacking " party and going at the content that way?
Nobody.

Listen to yourself.

You listen to yourself, this guy is asking for it to be removed. Some of us like to take a formidably long time finishing the same content that has been in the game since launch and consider that fun.

*fixed

and I fixed it for you.

Here’s the deal :
What you consider fun isn’t what everyone considers fun.
You might not like stacking and it might make the whole dungeon experience shorter but let’s be honest with ourselves : How much fun is a dungeon when you’re doing it for the 200th, 300th or 400th time ?

The content is stale, people have done everything there was to do in dungeons, seen what was there to see. Why do people do it now? For the rewards.
Yes you heard me, the fun in the dungeons now is getting that 1.5 or 1 gold at the end and moving on.

What do you think would happen if said reward was removed? Almost nobody would do the dungeons just for the sake of doing them.

That was the case before the update that introduced the 1 gold minimum reward per path. Only a few people did the dungeons mostly for gear, or AP, or the dungeon-specific crafts.

And I know this might be hard to believe but some people consider that spending very little time in a dungeon, clearing it fast and clean, is fun.

Maybe rewards can be given for speed running dungeons and not speed running and stacking to favor different group playstyles…

Harper.4173:

Who exactly is stopping you from forming your own " no stacking " party and going at the content that way?
Nobody.

“Who exactly is stopping you from forming your own “no armour in world vs. world” party and going at the content that way? Nobody."

Hurrrr durrrr.

• Stacking is absolutely intended by the developer, especially in dungeons.
• Talking about exploits is verboten.
• As others have pointed out, you can do dungeons without stacking, ergo stacking does not need to go for you to be able to do dungeons without it.
• Every complaint about dungeon meta play of any sort is an entitlement post, saying, essentially, “I want the dungeon meta to exactly mimic what I want out of dungeon play so I get more convenience when pugging.” If it were not possible to form your own group with like-minded players, this would not be the case, but since you can…

Stacking isn’t the problem. The problem is that some people expect scripted A.I. to be as challenging and exciting as fighting another human being of equal or greater skill. At first it is. Then you figure out fight mechanics and it devolves into whatever is the most efficient way to do things. The reason to continue playing dungeons is for the loot and for the company. That is all.

Fenar.4025:

Stacking isn’t the problem. The problem is that some people expect scripted A.I. to be as challenging and exciting as fighting another human being of equal or greater skill. At first it is. Then you figure out fight mechanics and it devolves into whatever is the most efficient way to do things. The reason to continue playing dungeons is for the loot and for the company. That is all.

Well it can be. Take a look at Overgrowth. The A.I. learns from previous encounters and adepts.

I had an experience like the OP’s in an SE P3 – No stacking, no skipping, and no exploits. We killed everything in that dungeon. Literally. Didn’t leave one single dredge blockade standing, not one. We took the long path down to the bridge and I even heard a few lines of NPC dialogue I did not know existed. It was glorious.

Of course that kind of dungeon run is like taking the scenic route home from work, or preparing a three-course home cooked dinner for a loved one. It’s absolutely brilliant once in a while, but you sure as hell aren’t going to do it every day.

Sirendor.1394:

Harper.4173:

Who exactly is stopping you from forming your own " no stacking " party and going at the content that way?
Nobody.

“Who exactly is stopping you from forming your own “no armour in world vs. world” party and going at the content that way? Nobody."

Hurrrr durrrr.

You think you’re so smart aren’t you?

The idea is that the OP’s proposed changes FORCE people to play his way. At the moment you have a CHOICE to tackle the content any way you see fit.

And your argument is invalid and silly – no armor in WvW is not a viable option.
Not stacking on bosses IS a valid option that ANYONE can use. It was used before stack spots were found and if you feel like taking your time find 4 more like minded people and go for it.

The bottom line is this – your arguments sounds like " I like to play the game a certain way and take a long amount of time doing a certain thing because I think that’s fun. Change the game so everybody has to play like me".

That’s just absurd.