Guild Wars 2

ThiBash.5634:

While it’s still easier to point the finger and blame than to accept the upcoming plans with gear, I must admit that overall, I’m reasonably satisfied.

Yes, there will be new gear coming out all the time. Yes, it will have better stats and yes, we will have to keep playing to keep up.

But also, it will be relatively easy to get. No more endless fractal grinding. We will again be able to play the game the way we like and come across ascended gear while we play.

Even if grinds are relative, I hope it won’t be that much harder to get compared to current exotics. Because enough is enough.

Like I said, it’s easy to start arguing again but for now, I’m a bit more at ease than I used to be.

Yes, but a zero grind would take you outside the pool of other MMO’s that have grinds. You would then only be relative to them in the fact that you don’t have a grind while they do and all their grinds are the ones relative to each other. With a zero grind we won’t need to worry about where ours falls relative to all other grinds, right? That statement about vertical progression with zero grind certainly put me more at ease too.

Corvindi.5734:

ThiBash.5634:

While it’s still easier to point the finger and blame than to accept the upcoming plans with gear, I must admit that overall, I’m reasonably satisfied.

Yes, there will be new gear coming out all the time. Yes, it will have better stats and yes, we will have to keep playing to keep up.

But also, it will be relatively easy to get. No more endless fractal grinding. We will again be able to play the game the way we like and come across ascended gear while we play.

Even if grinds are relative, I hope it won’t be that much harder to get compared to current exotics. Because enough is enough.

Like I said, it’s easy to start arguing again but for now, I’m a bit more at ease than I used to be.

This is what they seem to be saying. I hope they actually mean it. I will wait and see. No sub fee means it won’t cost me a dime to find out.

Yeah, I’m gonna take the whole “wait and see” approach as well.

They did say it might take the whole of next year to dole out more Ascended gear and ways to get them. I can be patient. It’s not as if I spent any money on this game aside from what I paid to purchase it (not even for extra inventory space – I use our guild vault for that ;P)

GrapeGatsby.6937:

Edge.4180:

GrapeGatsby.6937:

zippo burntfur.9307:

Perseus Ithikus.5483:

zippo burntfur.9307:

Mistake me if i’m wrong, but doesn’t legendary weapon’s have the same stat/damage value as exotic’s? And if so how is bringing out another tier of gear gonna help? Won’t the same people that say there is nothing to do say the same thing after getting all the new gear?

As far as I know Legendary weapons will be increased in strength so that ascended fits in between them and exotic.

Yeah I know, Legendary’s used to be an optional grind but now if you want BiS gear you need to grind for a legendary…..

Or you could get the ascended weapons? You didn’t “need” to grind legendaries when exotics were the best stats?

The concern is this: as long as ANet intends to continue to bump the stats of legendary equipment up for free so that they’re always “best in slot” (as they will with the release of ascended gear), then the only true way to make yourself immune to the gear chase (at least with weapons) is to get a legendary. And at that point legendary weapons start to feel a whole lot less optional.

So what you want is for legendaries that take 500-700 hours worth of material to create to not be bumped up into best in slot.

Can you show me exactly where I said I want that? All I did was explain why some people feel Legendary equipment has gone from “optional” to “necessary”.

Before, Legendary equipment was purely an aesthetic choice because the stats were on par with Exotics. You can argue that it is still purely an aesthetic choice, except now the stats are comparable to those Ascended weapons will have. To someone who just walked in on GW2, nothing has really changed. To people who have been here from the start, the bar representing the top tier just moved, and there’s no guarantee that it won’t move again in the future besides assurances from ANet that have already failed the test of time once.

If/when a new tier is introduced above Ascended, Legendary equipment will be boosted again so it can continue to be labeled “the aesthetic alternative to best-in-slot weapons”. Because of this, many people are now looking at Legendary weapons not as an aesthetic alternative, but instead as the only guaranteed way to protect yourself from power creep. Once you have your Legendary weapon you can say “Yay, I have the weapon with the best stats in the game.. forever”, where as you can no longer say that about Exotics, will one day no longer be able to say that about Ascended, nor any tiers introduced beyond Ascended.

Legendary weapons have become like the United States Post Office equivalent of the “Forever Stamps”, which were stamps that were introduced back into 2007 that you could buy in bulk and then (as long as you had some) use them on first class mail no matter how much the cost of postage stamps increased in the years to come. Legendary weapons are not just cosmetic alternatives any longer; they should literally have the words “whatever is currently the best-est” in place of their stat listings. There is no other class of weapon you can make that claim about.

Mike O’Brien’s comment isn’t showing up on http://www.reddit.com/user/ArenaNetTeam/ Does he have a separate account or something?

Shadow Blade.1324:

In regard to gated content via gear then i think that this is something we are going to give more thought to. Specifically if the reward at the end of the activity applies to players that are not just looking to do a specific type of content. Note that this statement is somewhat contradictory to the philosophy laid out above if the required items do not drop elsewhere or the ultimate rewards don’t either. This is something we are going to fix.

Sigh. Does this guy have a law degree? He sure talks like it.

Okay, so I quoted the above bit since it’s the most important part as far as I’m concerned.

It seems to be saying that they realized they goofed up bigtime when they locked the best gear in the game behind a dungeon grind and they’re not going to leave it that way.

No ETA on when we can expect a fix, sadly.

Bullfrog.1324:

Mike O’Brien’s comment isn’t showing up on http://www.reddit.com/user/ArenaNetTeam/ Does he have a separate account or something?

Yes, some devs have their own account which unfortunately makes tracking responses a bit of a pain. I’ll see if I can track it down.

Hi! I’ll respond to the top part since it’s a quote from me.

Obviously the key phrase I’m going to point you to in that quote is, “if someone wants to play for a thousand hours to get an item that is so rare that other players can’t realistically acquire it”. That really is the litmus test we’ve used. That’s why, at ship, we gave better stats to exotic gear and didn’t give better stats to legendary gear.
More generally, I hope we’ve been clear that GW2 is not a game with virtually no stat progression in it like GW1 was. That’s why GW2 shipped with a higher level cap, and with a hard separation between PvE and PvP. In GW1 we never advanced the level cap through four campaigns/expansions. The game design didn’t allow for it. But GW2 was designed without those restrictions, and we’ve always expected that we will someday raise the level cap in GW2.
That’s why we’ve always said that GW2 rewards players through both progression and collection, whereas GW1 primarily rewarded through collection. Presumably players aren’t shocked that GW2 rewards through progression, since it has a level 80 cap.

I wonder if the core sentiment is more this: It’s only been two-and-a-half months! We don’t even all have exotics yet, and already you’re introducing another tier. Is this the start of a power progression curve that I’ll never be able to keep up with?

I certainly appreciate that worry. I myself don’t want a constant struggle, as exists in some other games, to keep my equipment viable.

Then we’re left with a balancing act. Some progression is ok, but pushing players onto gear treadmill isn’t ok and isn’t what the game is about.

So I would ask you to judge us by details, and not by making slippery-slope arguments. We introduced a ton of new content in November, and the sum total of new progression rewards we added to go with it provided a 5-10% stat increase in 2 of 12 slots. I hope you’ll agree that that kind of very shallow and gradual progression does not force people onto a gear treadmill.

I think it’s important for GW2 to be able to have this kind of gradual progression. Of course we made some mistakes with the way we introduced ascended gear. (See ChrisW’s answers for details.) But those are addressable issues. I don’t think they invalidate the fundamental concept that GW2 can have gradual stat progression without being a gear treadmill game.

This is actually a very good explanation. While I still don’t agree with it, I do feel less betrayed than before. It’s acceptable for me and I thank ArenaNet for the answer.

Take a look at this answer:

• We do not intend to deploy another tier/rarity of loot such as Rare>Exotic. However we also do not intend to make promises that can be misinterpreted moving forward.
• Ascended Gear will be introduced throughout next year,and accessible through many game play activities rather than just on. -Through infusions and existing Tiers there will be the opportunity to increase stats or abilities on a low power curve through multiple types of gameplay in GW2.
• The opportunity to enhance existing tiers of loot will not be through a regular cadence of monthly updates instead it is more likely to come from expansions or very big drops of content.
• In retrospect Ascended should have been deployed pre launch and earn able throughout most activities in the game (which is how we are moving forward).

I believe there has been no change to our philosophy regarding end game gear. We have learnt lessons for sure which is one of the main advantages of a live game and no doubt we will learn lessons moving forward. This does not however dilute our commitment to create a pioneering, accessible and fun world for players as we continue to build out GW2. And we very much rely on your and the communities feedback as we execute on these philosophy.
Chris

I’m a bit confused how they think they can cater to advocates of horizontal and vertical progression at the same time. As another person said, these two viewpoints are in opposition to each other. Either way, the horse has been thoroughly beaten. Good luck with your game.

Corvindi.5734:

Shadow Blade.1324:

In regard to gated content via gear then i think that this is something we are going to give more thought to. Specifically if the reward at the end of the activity applies to players that are not just looking to do a specific type of content. Note that this statement is somewhat contradictory to the philosophy laid out above if the required items do not drop elsewhere or the ultimate rewards don’t either. This is something we are going to fix.

Sigh. Does this guy have a law degree? He sure talks like it.

Okay, so I quoted the above bit since it’s the most important part as far as I’m concerned.

It seems to be saying that they realized they goofed up bigtime when they locked the best gear in the game behind a dungeon grind and they’re not going to leave it that way.

No ETA on when we can expect a fix, sadly.

You’ve got to admit, the way their statements are analyzed and picked apart, it’s not surprising their responses become cautiously guarded.

tkalamba.2541:

Bullfrog.1324:

Mike O’Brien’s comment isn’t showing up on http://www.reddit.com/user/ArenaNetTeam/ Does he have a separate account or something?

Yes, some devs have their own account which unfortunately makes tracking responses a bit of a pain. I’ll see if I can track it down.

http://www.reddit.com/user/Mike-OBrien-ArenaNet

Debsylvania.7396:

Corvindi.5734:

Shadow Blade.1324:

In regard to gated content via gear then i think that this is something we are going to give more thought to. Specifically if the reward at the end of the activity applies to players that are not just looking to do a specific type of content. Note that this statement is somewhat contradictory to the philosophy laid out above if the required items do not drop elsewhere or the ultimate rewards don’t either. This is something we are going to fix.

Sigh. Does this guy have a law degree? He sure talks like it.

Okay, so I quoted the above bit since it’s the most important part as far as I’m concerned.

It seems to be saying that they realized they goofed up bigtime when they locked the best gear in the game behind a dungeon grind and they’re not going to leave it that way.

No ETA on when we can expect a fix, sadly.

You’ve got to admit, the way their statements are analyzed and picked apart, it’s not surprising their responses become cautiously guarded.

No, I’m not surprised. But it makes it a pain in the neck to read.

At least they seem to know something the vast majority of other MMO devs never have learned: Locking your best gear away in dungeons/raids is a dumb idea. Good for them! Wish more devs would realize that.

kuinn.2051:

tkalamba.2541:

Bullfrog.1324:

Mike O’Brien’s comment isn’t showing up on http://www.reddit.com/user/ArenaNetTeam/ Does he have a separate account or something?

Yes, some devs have their own account which unfortunately makes tracking responses a bit of a pain. I’ll see if I can track it down.

http://www.reddit.com/user/Mike-OBrien-ArenaNet

Thank you, was struggling to find it.

’So I would ask you to judge us by details, ’

Hell on a hot tin roof – isnt that what we HAVE been doing? and why so many are unhappy?!

Dear ArenaNet,

A direct quote from the AMA:

“Ascended Gear is designed to fill the ‘Time’ gap in regard to the distance between exotic and Legendary in terms of progression and in retrospect would have been better to have been rolled out pre launch.
I would also like add that we have never said there would be no vertical progression. We do intent to focus on horizontal but we will have vertical progression moving forward with the focus on zero grind and a very low power curve.”

Well, there is the loophole. Its true, you never explicitly promised only horizontal progression. Probably smart on your part. Did you think it would ever work to begin with? We will probably never know. However i now feel pretty confident moving forward that it is only a matter of time before new “tiers” of gear become available, and raids are released under the guise of “guild events/dungeons”. Which is fine I guess. A million other games are totally successful using this approach. But at least they are forthcoming about it. The whole tone makes me feel like you are backhandedly saying “we tried to do something different, but this is what you wanted.” when in fact, i think there is a massive amount of room for a more lateral approach.

http://www.guildwars2guru.com/topic/75995-guild-wars-2-and-progression/

I completely agree with the above article that you took all the great horizontal progression elements of the first guild wars, and threw them in the kitten trash. Why can’t we progress in terms of weapon skills? Why can’t my guardian unlock the sword skills of a warrior, simultaneously giving me a meaningful goal and giving my class exponentially more viable possibilities in both pve and pvp settings? Why cant i work toward unlocking permission to wield new types of weapons for my class to the same end? Why does it have to go directly from “horizontal progression, but not much of it” to “vertical progression, based out of one dungeon and one activity (for now)”? I feel like this can only be the result of pressure from NCSoft. I know a large number of people LOVED the game, played their hearts out to 80, then went “meh” and found something else to play. That, of course, is devastating to the revenue stream of an MMO. Retention isn’t only important, its the ONLY thing. I feel like the big wigs at NCSoft came down, asked why more money wasnt coming in, and when they asked you guys what could be done, someone half jokingly said “we could put in better gear for people to grind for”. Except the big wigs didnt get the joke. They just saw dollar signs pouring out of your mouths, and set you to work. I dont know why else you could so drastically change your whole philosophy about this game. Anyway, rant over. I unfortunately wont be contributing to the success of Guild Wars 2 anymore. I will likely uninstall it tonight, and check in on whats new from time to time to see if you can recover from the foundation shattering blow you have dealt this game of such massive potential. I truly wish you the best, and I sincerely hope you can find your way again.

How do I ask him a question? I would like to know if there is going to be ascended gear with the cleric stats i.e. healing power/toughness/power implemented any time soon?

Rococo.8347:

’So I would ask you to judge us by details, ’

Hell on a hot tin roof – isnt that what we HAVE been doing? and why so many are unhappy?!

Yeah this is what I think as well. And Chris Whiteside’s responses don’t alleviate the concern when they release ascended items with a huge grind yet they state they don’t want any grind at all. There’s a disconnect there.

Rococo.8347:

’So I would ask you to judge us by details, ’

Hell on a hot tin roof – isnt that what we HAVE been doing? and why so many are unhappy?!

Don’t judge us – hey, eyes up here – on the treadmill, judge us – hey, HEY. look at this – on this tasty looking carrot.

“This is a reply from John Smith, ArenaNet’s economist:
We did expect the change in price of Ectos and it was intended. Bots had artificially suppressed the prices of many high end items making late game farming for legitimate players less effective than we wanted. With the fractal dungeon we introduce available ways to earn Ectos and other high end items for use or profit to keep the price from going up too fast.”

WTH! Why put diminishing returns in for legitimate players in the open world then? This just seems to me to be them wanting to push people into doing fractals. The open world and DE event system is one of the best parts of the game.

I have to give it to them, they prepared the PR exercise slightly better than I expected. Then again, I hadn’t high expectations to begin with.

Oh well. I got 2 and a half months out of it so I guess I can say I did get some value out of my money.

TimeBomb.3427:

Take a look at this answer:

• We do not intend to deploy another tier/rarity of loot such as Rare>Exotic. However we also do not intend to make promises that can be misinterpreted moving forward.
• Ascended Gear will be introduced throughout next year,and accessible through many game play activities rather than just on. -Through infusions and existing Tiers there will be the opportunity to increase stats or abilities on a low power curve through multiple types of gameplay in GW2.
• The opportunity to enhance existing tiers of loot will not be through a regular cadence of monthly updates instead it is more likely to come from expansions or very big drops of content.
• In retrospect Ascended should have been deployed pre launch and earn able throughout most activities in the game (which is how we are moving forward).

I believe there has been no change to our philosophy regarding end game gear. We have learnt lessons for sure which is one of the main advantages of a live game and no doubt we will learn lessons moving forward. This does not however dilute our commitment to create a pioneering, accessible and fun world for players as we continue to build out GW2. And we very much rely on your and the communities feedback as we execute on these philosophy.
Chris

better look at this

That is why there is no plan for new Rarity Tiers of loot but there are plans to enhance or gain items within the existing rarity design whose properties continue on a shallow power curve.

Yep, no new tiers… they’ll just deploy rares with exotic stats, exotics with ascendant ones, and ascendants with even bigger ones.

morrolan.9608:

Rococo.8347:

’So I would ask you to judge us by details, ’

Hell on a hot tin roof – isnt that what we HAVE been doing? and why so many are unhappy?!

Yeah this is what I think as well. And Chris Whiteside’s responses don’t alleviate the concern when they release ascended items with a huge grind yet they state they don’t want any grind at all. There’s a disconnect there.

It’s a player disconnect, not a developer one. The game isn’t catered to one group. It’s catered to several groups, collectively called “the community.” The issue is everyone thinks their group is the “majority” of the community.

It isn’t, no matter what group you label yourself, and even if it was, since when did a majority get a say on what the other groups get to enjoy or not? “Get out, there’s another game for you,” is a cop-out, moron’s argument.

The more that different types of players play this game, the more ways there will be to play it, don’t like it? Keep playing the way you want. No one is forcing anyone to do anything else.

Here is a comment someone posted on Guru that bothers me:

ArenaNet Team said:
This is a reply from John Smith, ArenaNet’s economist:

We did expect the change in price of Ectos and it was intended. Bots had artificially suppressed the prices of many high end items making late game farming for legitimate players less effective than we wanted. With the fractal dungeon we introduce available ways to earn Ectos and other high end items for use or profit to keep the price from going up too fast.

The thing about this is, bots can be programmed to run dungeons. I can’t be. Well, okay, I could do them, but I’d rather gouge my eyes out with a rusty spoon than farm mats that way. Nor do I want to be kept a broke little peasant beside my dungeon hamster overlords.

I get that bots are a problem, but locking gold acquisition away in dungeons is no smarter than locking gear up in them.

morrolan.9608:

Rococo.8347:

’So I would ask you to judge us by details, ’

Hell on a hot tin roof – isnt that what we HAVE been doing? and why so many are unhappy?!

Yeah this is what I think as well. And Chris Whiteside’s responses don’t alleviate the concern when they release ascended items with a huge grind yet they state they don’t want any grind at all. There’s a disconnect there.

Progression is not the same thing as Grind

and he also said there looking into the amount of mats needed to craft the new gear, so they know its kinda High

Although (thus far) they haven’t said exactly what methods the PvE crowd will have to acquire the new tier, but with the last batch of answers I will give them the benefit of the doubt. I honestly hope crafting and/of karma venders will carry these before a new tier is introduced.

Wintyre Fraust.6534:

Rococo.8347:

’So I would ask you to judge us by details, ’

Hell on a hot tin roof – isnt that what we HAVE been doing? and why so many are unhappy?!

Don’t judge us – hey, eyes up here – on the treadmill, judge us – hey, HEY. look at this – on this tasty looking carrot.

I dunno…I think that the betrayal, liars, etc. QQ fest about Ascended items has run its course at this point.

The stark reality is just as Mike O says:

1. They added items for 2 slots that offer a 5-10% stat increase, so the power differential that these items grant is seriously not that much.

2. Currently these items require a large grind to get, but they have admitted that it may have been excessive.

3. They are planning on adding multiple ways to get Ascended items so that you will not be forced to grind FoTM.

Now…if you have a huge problem with those three facts, I guess feel free to whine. But honestly…I think you would be being unreasonable. Just about every argument made against Ascended is a slippery slope argument, because the reality of the current situation just isn’t that bad.

Just want to say thank you for the tone and frankness of the communication on the AMA. One of the impressions that made me interested in GW2 was that the Anet team were intelligent people committed to grappling with the problems of MMO design in intelligent and interesting ways. I’d like the frankness of their communication about what they were doing with the game and, more importantly, how they were coming to their decisions. It seemed like they wouldn’t always get it right, but that they’d do things based on a reasonable chain of logic, and they’d alter course (again based on good reasons) if things didn’t work out.

The pretty terrible Lost Shores – and, more to the point, the awful communication blackout once it started going wrong – had shaken my faith.

I’m feeling more confident again now, and am looking forward to the future of the game! Thanks, all!

Rococo.8347:

’So I would ask you to judge us by details, ’

Hell on a hot tin roof – isnt that what we HAVE been doing? and why so many are unhappy?!

No, not really. Many on these forums have been (and still are) freaking out on what they think will happen; that the Ascended gear tier is the start of a never ending gear treadmill.

Mackdose.6504:

It’s a player disconnect, not a developer one. The game isn’t catered to one group. It’s catered to several groups, collectively called “the community.” The issue is everyone thinks their group is the “majority” of the community.

No there’s definitely a dev disconnect between statements talking about a lack of grind and then coming out with items with what is close to an insane grind for an accessory. Why was it released in the first place with such a grind?

Here is the reply to the second question:
E2:Ascended gears are making a lot of people worry about an ever-increasing gear treadmill. Many players did not want the exotic/legendary system to change, and they don’t like ascended gears. Was this expected? Can this be something fixed in a painless way? Can it happen?
Yes the response was definitively expected. We did not intent for the information to come out this way. Going back to my previous answer the issue is that we believe in the vertical progression system we had pre launch and that the introduction of an element into the system post launch was going to cause concern but something we believe in. That is why there is no plan for new Rarity Tiers of loot but there are plans to enhance or gain items within the existing rarity design whose properties continue on a shallow power curve. This said we certainly don’t want to create a system where itemization blocks progression in the game globally and we also need to be careful of this in areas such as FotM if the primary reward isn’t available elsewhere in the game. So in short its an exciting problem but one that has been poorly communicated and handled.
And for this i take responsibility and apologies. However the future of this philosophy and the design challenges it throws up are going to lead to a pioneering world and one that we are very excited about.
So anyway i kind of went of topic here so in short. We don’t intend to have an item rarity gear treadmill, we intend for the progression for gaining these rewards to have lots of different avenues for different types of player and where possible lower no fun grind within the whole of the game.
I hope this answers that question. I will be right back.
Chris

I like this answer, and do believe they know a lot of people are upset, depending on horizontal or vert. progression, and appears they are going to cater to both, which I have no problem with, as long as it is balanced on how both means of getting these are the same, besides, the more people they can cater too, the longer and better the game will be around, now just fix all the bugs that have existed since launch! I also see some admitting to things I thought they never would, and see some honesty coming through. I don’t know what people want to hear, but if this is truly the future of the game, will have to live with it, and I can see it working for everyone if they do it right, and do it like Chris has stated.

Creslin.1758:

Not necessarily.

There are many players out there that just love one part of the game and will do that to the exclusion of others. For example, I love WvW…dungeons are okay, but they aren’t typically my first choice.

If I could get Ascended items in WvW…even if it was more inefficient than dungeons…I would probably still just do WvW.

this is true of some players, however my point was more specifically towards areas mentioned such as personal story / map completion as these are easier to obtain than a repeatable grind of fractals and hoping rng is kind, when they are released through other sources such as WvW, the grind to obtain them will be equivalent/ greater than the fractals grind. otherwise it skews the reward balance kind like fractals does atm

“When optional content has too good a reward it ceases to be optional and simply becomes the way people play the game "

Debsylvania.7396:

Corvindi.5734:

Shadow Blade.1324:

In regard to gated content via gear then i think that this is something we are going to give more thought to. Specifically if the reward at the end of the activity applies to players that are not just looking to do a specific type of content. Note that this statement is somewhat contradictory to the philosophy laid out above if the required items do not drop elsewhere or the ultimate rewards don’t either. This is something we are going to fix.

Sigh. Does this guy have a law degree? He sure talks like it.

Okay, so I quoted the above bit since it’s the most important part as far as I’m concerned.

It seems to be saying that they realized they goofed up bigtime when they locked the best gear in the game behind a dungeon grind and they’re not going to leave it that way.

No ETA on when we can expect a fix, sadly.

You’ve got to admit, the way their statements are analyzed and picked apart, it’s not surprising their responses become cautiously guarded.

I haven’t really seen any issue with over-analysis or picking apart of their past statements in the current discussion. The statements are usually quoted verbatim. They are extremely clear and really don’t require analysis. Nor do they require being picked apart. This stands in contra-distinction to their current language. Take the quote for example: “we will have vertical progression moving forward with the focus on zero grind and a very low power curve.” How you would even approach its analysis boggles the mind, but it certainly needs to be picked apart to have any idea what it means. Do you understand the difference?

I so called all of this, it is actually very funny now. How can you develop a game for so long and not have lengthy discussions about what people want. Building a game is hard but concept is easy. I don’t understand it and can’t wrap my head around it. There is no such thing as common sense. I feel sorry for the Devs who wanted to do things correctly in the first place and were shutdown by the folks they work for.

What saddens me most is that GW2 had the potential to be an MMO that went into the books as one of the Greats. Not now, they did not listen to their players and have now fall into the same bag as other MMO’s such as SWOTR, Warhammer, Aion, Conan etc……..

morrolan.9608:

Mackdose.6504:

It’s a player disconnect, not a developer one. The game isn’t catered to one group. It’s catered to several groups, collectively called “the community.” The issue is everyone thinks their group is the “majority” of the community.

No there’s definitely a dev disconnect between statements talking about a lack of grind and then coming out with items with what is close to an insane grind for an accessory. Why was it released in the first place with such a grind?

They admitted that restricting Ascended items to one place at their debut was a mistake, and that they are reviewing the requirements for Ascended items.

Kitten happens. At least we know they are trying to correct what went wrong…not sure what else you want from them.

Well the answers are on par so far with what I expected to hear. That is, they had ideas already but what their execution delivered was not exactly what was intended.

Thanks for the frankness.

Now please try not to do this again . . . okay?

UnderdogSMO.9428:

Progression is not the same thing as Grind

and he also said there looking into the amount of mats needed to craft the new gear, so they know its kinda High

In what universe is the ascended backpack not a grind? And as I said in another post why was the gear released with such a grind when they say they don’t want a grind? It doesn’t give me confidence that they will follow through on their statements.

morrolan.9608:

Mackdose.6504:

It’s a player disconnect, not a developer one. The game isn’t catered to one group. It’s catered to several groups, collectively called “the community.” The issue is everyone thinks their group is the “majority” of the community.

No there’s definitely a dev disconnect between statements talking about a lack of grind and then coming out with items with what is close to an insane grind for an accessory. Why was it released in the first place with such a grind?

Because some people like achievements and goals to have a feeling of accomplishment, that’s why it isn’t just given out for free from a vendor.

Base Ascended: Not too hard to get at all.

Infused Ascended: Long term time-sink for agony resistance and +5 (lol) to a stat for people who like long term time-sinks

Pretty simple logic.

Astralporing.1957:

Yep, no new tiers… they’ll just deploy rares with exotic stats, exotics with ascendant ones, and ascendants with even bigger ones.

This is exactly what I’m worried about too. You don’t need to call it a new tier but it’s the same thing. Better stats are better stats – call it ascended 2 tier or ascended tier but with better stats than previously released ascended gear. Core of the idea is to calm the vocal anti-treadmill players by masking the treadmill under the same tier (tier-name).
That being said, the PR-answers Chris gave us actually did calm me down. A lot. He admited that they made several mistakes with this patch. And he actually admited it several times and appologized for it. Which is far more than I expected from this AMA.
I might get back into the game now, but will still hold on to gem purchases and will know what to expect in the future.

They appreciate your feedback and absolutely understand your desire for horizontal progression only and a minimal curve in power progression. You’ll be happy to hear the tier after ascended is only .1% more powerful and has no grind* at all.

*???

morrolan.9608:

Mackdose.6504:

It’s a player disconnect, not a developer one. The game isn’t catered to one group. It’s catered to several groups, collectively called “the community.” The issue is everyone thinks their group is the “majority” of the community.

No there’s definitely a dev disconnect between statements talking about a lack of grind and then coming out with items with what is close to an insane grind for an accessory. Why was it released in the first place with such a grind?

cant be that much of a discanect seeing that the devs said what it take’s to get an ascended now is a bit to excessive and there working on it ((sadly "working on it means thay have to have meetings about it first in this line of work))

Thank you for this AMA. I see they are going full steam ahead with this gear grind nonsense. Had I known in September the game was going in this direction I would of never purchased Guild Wars 2 as I’m not into the hamster wheel/token/gear chase.

Release Hype:

“Here’s what we believe: If someone wants to play for a thousand hours to get an item that is so rare that other players can’t realistically acquire it, that rare item should be differentiated by its visual appearance and rarity alone, not by being more powerful than everything else in the game. Otherwise, your MMO becomes all about grinding to get the best gear. We don’t make grindy games — we leave the grind to other MMOs.”

then they state on AMA:

“I would also like add that we have never said there would be no vertical progression. We do intent to focus on horizontal but we will have vertical progression moving forward with the focus on zero grind and a very low power curve.”

throws hands up

How can you straight up lie and say “we have never said there would be no vertical progression” when the original “We don’t make grindy games — we leave the grind to other MMOs” is out there for all the world to see and AND have to run the FOTM dungeon over and over and ove…nevermind I give up.

Only my second post on these forums but like a lot of players I was waiting for a straight answer on the direction this game is going. Guess it goes on the shelf with SW:TOR and log on every now and then to check out events and such.

If they’re not going to do one-off events in the future it would be nice to allow those that did even one part of the event a free 20 slot bag as an apology for making them choose between work and the final event. But so long as we don’t receive any more god-like items as a reward only a few can participate in, I’ll let it slide.

Ballistic.4531:

Astralporing.1957:

Yep, no new tiers… they’ll just deploy rares with exotic stats, exotics with ascendant ones, and ascendants with even bigger ones.

This is exactly what I’m worried about too. You don’t need to call it a new tier but it’s the same thing. Better stats are better stats – call it ascended 2 tier or ascended tier but with better stats than previously released ascended gear. Core of the idea is to calm the vocal anti-treadmill players by masking the treadmill under the same tier (tier-name).
That being said, the PR-answers Chris gave us actually did calm me down. A lot. He admited that they made several mistakes with this patch. And he actually admited it several times and appologized for it. Which is far more than I expected from this AMA.
I might get back into the game now, but will still hold on to gem purchases and will know what to expect in the future.

man… if i let every little thing that MIGHT happen worry me my life would suck and there would never be any enjoyment in it.

thanks for the lulz. I needed it, being that i am now adrift on a sea of mediocre copycat MMOs with not a drop to drink.

NDwarf.1867:

Thank you for this AMA. I see they are going full steam ahead with this gear grind nonsense. Had I known in September the game was going in this direction I would of never purchased Guild Wars 2 as I’m not into the hamster wheel/token/gear chase.

Release Hype:

“Here’s what we believe: If someone wants to play for a thousand hours to get an item that is so rare that other players can’t realistically acquire it, that rare item should be differentiated by its visual appearance and rarity alone, not by being more powerful than everything else in the game. Otherwise, your MMO becomes all about grinding to get the best gear. We don’t make grindy games — we leave the grind to other MMOs.”

then they state on AMA:

“I would also like add that we have never said there would be no vertical progression. We do intent to focus on horizontal but we will have vertical progression moving forward with the focus on zero grind and a very low power curve.”

throws hands up

How can you straight up lie and say “we have never said there would be no vertical progression” when the original “We don’t make grindy games — we leave the grind to other MMOs” is out there for all the world to see and AND have to run the FOTM dungeon over and over and ove…nevermind I give up.

Only my second post on these forums but like a lot of players I was waiting for a straight answer on the direction this game is going. Guess it goes on the shelf with SW:TOR and log on every now and then to check out events and such.

Progression is not the same thing as “grind” as well as the fact FOTM will not be the only way to get accended and he said that from now on all the upcomeing gear will have multaple ways to obtain it and just putting it in FOTM was a big F-up

if the items can be acquired in a some what fast easy manner for all players and your never felt wanting than your problem never really apples to any of this.

My favorate quote of the day is “no grind” … I want to play his version of Guild Wars 2, because in my version, I even have to grind for exotic gear … whether it be for crafting materials, or for coin to buy crafting materials, I still have to grind, and even more so with the drop rate bug.

NaughtyProwler.8653:

I’m a bit confused how they think they can cater to advocates of horizontal and vertical progression at the same time. As another person said, these two viewpoints are in opposition to each other. Either way, the horse has been thoroughly beaten. Good luck with your game.

Because they seem to think that drip-feeding the gear upgrades is somehow going to make it more palatable to both parties. It’s a compromise.

I’m not confident however that either party will be satisfied enough with this strategy.

Some of you REALLY need to stop and think from their point of view.

ALL they are trying to do is to cater to EVERYONE’s needs, and quite frankly the uproar of the community is appalling. People need to stop caring about what they want and start caring about the game on a whole. I don’t know what the hell happened to this community but it seems all the children/elitists from other games have flocked to GW2 and made it their home.

Newsflash: There are plenty of us who appreciate not having the drama. Nobody cares that you only care for <insert game aspect here> because there is the whole game to be played. Stop pigeon-holing people.

Please explain to me why the answers given are not sufficient enough? They are perfectly sufficient. I’m tired of reading posts where people ‘guess’ or ‘assume’ or interpret things in ways completely different from what’s intended. Can you really blame Chris for being cautious in the way things are worded? This is not a conspiracy, this is not PR stunts, this is a real session.

Give the guy some slack, gosh.

Also: You people need to learn to read.

NDwarf.1867:

Thank you for this AMA. I see they are going full steam ahead with this gear grind nonsense. Had I known in September the game was going in this direction I would of never purchased Guild Wars 2 as I’m not into the hamster wheel/token/gear chase.

Release Hype:

“Here’s what we believe: If someone wants to play for a thousand hours to get an item that is so rare that other players can’t realistically acquire it, that rare item should be differentiated by its visual appearance and rarity alone, not by being more powerful than everything else in the game. Otherwise, your MMO becomes all about grinding to get the best gear. We don’t make grindy games — we leave the grind to other MMOs.”

then they state on AMA:

“I would also like add that we have never said there would be no vertical progression. We do intent to focus on horizontal but we will have vertical progression moving forward with the focus on zero grind and a very low power curve.”

throws hands up

How can you straight up lie and say “we have never said there would be no vertical progression” when the original “We don’t make grindy games — we leave the grind to other MMOs” is out there for all the world to see and AND have to run the FOTM dungeon over and over and ove…nevermind I give up.

Only my second post on these forums but like a lot of players I was waiting for a straight answer on the direction this game is going. Guess it goes on the shelf with SW:TOR and log on every now and then to check out events and such.

1. Vertical Progression != Grind, stop using them as synonyms.
2. Vertical Progression has been in the game since launch, it’s called leveling to 80.
3. “Very Low Power Curve.” Probably the biggest point, it means that you won’t need the gear to participate. It’s the reason I can do explorables in blues.

I never need to grind to have fun in GW2, Period.

Just because a grind exists, doesn’t mean you must do it to participate.

Read it again.

Stop being held hostage by other players mandates and previous MMO behaviour, stop blaming the game for not being able to get things thing you want, but not need, and stop saying that the game is doomed based on a miniscule stat increase.

You see the fractals arent a grind they are fun and dont count.
They pss on you shoe and tell you its raining.

It is a shame but I think they did it on their own.Money/success does strange things to people.
I wish you the best as I am right behind you.