Guild Wars 2

I feel it’s finally time to voice my thoughts regarding this aspect of the game, as for every step forward ANet takes, they seem to take 1 or 2 backwards somewhere else.

-Background
First off, some brief background. I’ve been playing since the 3-day head start, picked up this game because it did away with many of the issues I had with other MMO’s I had played in the past. I got hooked, I was a day one player, and so I made the decision to invest myself in the game I had become loyal to and become an Achievement hunter.

A brief look at other topics suggests that many other Achievement hunters (Referred to as AH’s for rest of post) are also growing frustrated, and so I will begin outlining some issues.

-Daily
I will start with a small issue first, and one that affects everyone and not just AH’s, and that is in regards to the new Daily system. I will say the concept is great and sound, but you have done away with choice with very specific requirements for the achievements. What happened to “Play how you want?”, why do I have to go to a very specific zone for PvE events now rather than just a region? Why do I have to play a specific class in PvP? The concept is great, the implementation was a step backwards however…

I do however have to say thank you for lumping the AP reward for completing the daily, and although already daily capped for quite some time now I do know what it was like to grind out all the daily achievements.

-Grindy Achievements
Grinding is not fun, and the recent trend of including some extremely grindy achievements that are in addition only limited for a very limited time is worrying! Let’s take the current example of Wintersday, which includes four of these!

-Bell choir, 3 AP/30 songs for 20 AP total, 210 songs required
-Toypocalypse, 3 AP/30 rounds for 15 AP total, 150 rounds required
-Wonderland, 3 AP/15 completions for 15 AP total, 75 completions required
-Snowball, 3 AP/30 rounds for 15 AP total, 150 rounds required

That is a massive amount of repetition for achievements that are only available for a limited time! It’s the Holiday season, people are busy, spending time with family, friends, people still need to work… it’s a lot of time to dedicate to getting the AP that will be gone forever, and I don’t think it’s worth the time any more.

On top of that I did all of this grinding last year! Why do I have to do it again?

Lunatic Inquisition had the same problem too, same grindy achievement that was reset. I actually couldn’t bring myself to repeat that grind, and that was 50 AP I sacrificed in doing so, AP I will never see!

Temporary time-sink based achievements need to stop, or if you insist on keeping them make it so they roll over year to year without resetting! At least that way people would have the opportunity to pick up on previously available AP.

There are other aspects of the system and recent changes I have discontent with as well, but this post is running long as is and I feel the above two areas are more deserving of the attention for now.

Summary, grindy time limited achievements aren’t fun, straying from ‘Play how you want’ is a mistake.

What i really dislike is that we can’t finish the meta anymore with daily achievements
so i am again where i was 2 years ago that i never will finish any meta since there are
mostly always some parts i simply will not do since i don’t like it / am not good at it
or whatever.

Add to that that i didn’t got any single achievement point from LS2, since i simply
don’t want to play those instances a second time, i personally have given up caring
about them.

LS1 after we could finish the meta with daily tasks was really the best time.

@Beldin, the fact that you’ve given up on it means it’s not worth your time to do it, and there’s nothing wrong with that. You shouldn’t spend a single second of your free time doing something you don’t want to do. But if you’re just not willing to do it, you shouldn’t really take issue that you won’t get the reward for it.

I think it’s really less about “play how I want” and more like “reward me how I want”. Players want the rewards worked around to fit their particular play styles. Anet has achievement for doing specific things if you choose to do them. You’re not being forced. The infinite achievements are optional and only really if you’re farming AP. The daily achievements are for if you’re farming AP. You can do three of the daily achievements within 10 minutes.

I take objection to this “You’re not being forced” it’s a lame duck argument of escapism of the issue, the problem is in its issuance its totally correct 100% your not being force, but then no one is forcing you to play the game in its entirety or even have it installed either! so why do I find objection, because we like the game and we’re tired of it being ruined so we do things for it and in it, in the somewhat dwindling hope that ArenaNet will see sense in the end, this means that ANY statics ArenaNet I are depending on behind the sense are completely bent in the wrong direction.

Hey Anet you’re not fair! I want an achievement for hanging out in Lion’s Arch and chatting.

aerial.7021:

I take objection to this “You’re not being forced” it’s a lame duck argument of escapism of the issue, the problem is in its issuance its totally correct 100% your not being force, but then no one is forcing you to play the game in its entirety or even have it installed either! so why do I find objection, because we like the game and we’re tired of it being ruined.

It’s exactly the argument that people are making when they say that the cannot play how they want. They’re essentially saying that Anet is forcing them to not be able to play how they want. Blowing it up into an argument that “well the game is optional too” serves no purpose as it’s not a really argument and doesn’t change the fact that people do not have to do the achievements if they go against their given play styles.

The amount of activities completed this year is more than triple of last years, and last years were a lot more bearable. So yeah, they can make achievements that take a bit of effort, without making them absolutely ridiculous like this years.

Slyther.1297:

-Grindy Achievements
Grinding is not fun, and the recent trend of including some extremely grindy achievements that are in addition only limited for a very limited time is worrying! Let’s take the current example of Wintersday, which includes four of these!

-Bell choir, 3 AP/30 songs for 20 AP total, 210 songs required
-Toypocalypse, 3 AP/30 rounds for 15 AP total, 150 rounds required
-Wonderland, 3 AP/15 completions for 15 AP total, 75 completions required
-Snowball, 3 AP/30 rounds for 15 AP total, 150 rounds required

You don’t have to do them. You’ve done the maths: small amounts of AP, massive amounts of time. If you don’t think it’s worth it, don’t do them.

It beggars belief how many people are so desperate for AP that they feel “forced” to do stuff like this.

The AP, in these cases, is there in case people actually like the activities, and want to do them quite a lot. The AP is not there to try and get people to grind out every last tiny achievement point.

the next patch, everyone needs to submit their schedule to anet, so they know the times and days people are available to play, so they can schedule everything around their needs for optional stuff

At some point I think we as AP farmers have to just say, enough and stop bothering.

Serophous.9085:

the next patch, everyone needs to submit their schedule to anet, so they know the times and days people are available to play, so they can schedule everything around their needs for optional stuff

The best thing about these forums is the funny posts like this, keep up the good work

OPs concern is legit.

Yes, you don1t have to do it, but why does that mean the achievments have to be out of sanity.

No one finds killing 1,000,000 dolyaks fun.
No one finds grinding 79,920 dungeon tokens fun.
No one finds doing 80 rounds of Lunatic Inquisition fun under 2 weeks.

With that said, I don’t think this Wintersday is too bad in that regard, you have a much larger time frame than you had for Halloween.

Simple solution:

Maximize AP you can gain at the first time you do a batch (so you have to do it once for the AP), and for every other batch just hand out activity chests.

AP hunters happy.
Playing for fun guys happy.

Ps.: Mah old thread on Lunatic Inquis with maths: https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/Suggestion-Think-math-do-Lunatic-Inquis/first#post4536581

Edit: oops wrong link, edited.

Slyther.1297:

I will say the concept is great and sound, but you have done away with choice with very specific requirements for the achievements. What happened to “Play how you want?”, why do I have to go to a very specific zone for PvE events now rather than just a region? Why do I have to play a specific class in PvP? The concept is great, the implementation was a step backwards however…

Can we please stop dragging this out into every single thread on the forum? You don’t have to misinterpret “Play how you want” every thread, you know? It’s ok to do it 10 or 15 times.

Plus, the new system is intended to be specific. That’s the point. The whole point is to have these specific things. If you generalize them, you might as well remove the whole thing and add the 10 AP to the login rewards because then the point is lost again.

(What bothers me is: How is this difficult to see for oneself? It’s blatantly obvious, day 1 logging in was enough to understand the intent, design and decisions behind it, especially because they are what the devs originally said dailies should be – unlike the previous implementation.)

That being said, I very much agree that overall, rewards for achievements is frankly stupid and a game design anti-pattern.
Achievements are supposed to be token recognition of specific facts. That’s bad enough as it is because many games give you an achievement for say, reaching level 20. Pointless, unless getting XP is something you don’t normally do as part of the gameplay.
Some achievements are smarter. For example you get one in Dishonored if you never ever killed a person. That’s interesting. Can you do that? It’s not always easy. But if you do, here, at least you got a little recognition, pointless as it might be.

The anti-pattern type of achievements (dailies, grind achievements, automatic achievements) however all rely on exploitable human nature. The completionist in you wants to fill this all up. Pointless, yes, but it gives you this tiny tiny endorphine rush to see this wall of all perfectly filled up achievements.
And devs know that. So to make activities more enticing when there is no money or time to use to work on the activity, they add grind-heavy achievements to it. All of a sudden, players slave away at it. Complaining about it sure, but they keep going and so long as you throw them another grind before this one runs out they’ll happily continue. Well, “happily”.

Anyhow, I really hate use of automatic or grind achievements. Yes they work, but they’re essentially making lab mice of your players, and that’s just a shameful attitude to have. Problem is: Everyone does it. :’(

Okay I have reconsidered my previous statement.

While I think Bell choir and the JP is whitin reason, and Toypocalypse on the very edge of reason Snowball mayhem is waaaaaaaaaay over the top.

150 games? It takes an avarge of 10 minutes for 1 game + 2 minutes loading and waiting. So that’s 150×12 mins. That’s 30 hours of pure playtime in Snowball Mayhem. Did anyone even bother to think this trough (my guess is that no, just like at Lunatic Inquis).

And even tough I like Snowball Mayhem (I actually think it’s better than regular PvP), there is no way anyone, and I mean anyone will spend that much time in that activity, let alone when there are others to do out there.

a•chieve•ment (??t?iv m?nt)

n.
1. something accomplished, as through great effort, skill, perseverance, or courage.
2. the act of achieving; attainment or accomplishment.

I’ll just leave this here.

lordkrall.7241:

a•chieve•ment (??t?iv m?nt)

n.
1. something accomplished, as through great effort, skill, perseverance, or courage.
2. the act of achieving; attainment or accomplishment.

I’ll just leave this here.

And this is relevant how? Are we suggesting achievements should be like getting a perfect score in Bell Choir (one for 100 song and one for 600 round)?

Chopping every single tree in Plains of Ashford?

Killing the Great Jungle Wurm (instead of the dinky one)?

Donate 100 gold to Ho-Ho-Tron?

Hit 25 players with snowballs without getting hit back?

If you’re going to talk about how achievements should fit some dictionary definition of the word, would you care to explain how most of the current ones fit this definition?

DaveGan.8065:

And this is relevant how? Are we suggesting achievements should be like getting a perfect score in Bell Choir (one for 100 song and one for 600 round)?

Chopping every single tree in Plains of Ashford?

Killing the Great Jungle Wurm (instead of the dinky one)?

Donate 100 gold to Ho-Ho-Tron?

Hit 25 players with snowballs without getting hit back?

If you’re going to talk about how achievements should fit some dictionary definition of the word, would you care to explain how most of the current ones fit this definition?

It is relevant because people seems to dislike the fact that you have to actually do or work a bit for the achievements.
If we actually look for the definition it is rather clear that an achievement is something you actually should have to work for. Either with skill or with time.

lordkrall.7241:

DaveGan.8065:

And this is relevant how? Are we suggesting achievements should be like getting a perfect score in Bell Choir (one for 100 song and one for 600 round)?

Chopping every single tree in Plains of Ashford?

Killing the Great Jungle Wurm (instead of the dinky one)?

Donate 100 gold to Ho-Ho-Tron?

Hit 25 players with snowballs without getting hit back?

If you’re going to talk about how achievements should fit some dictionary definition of the word, would you care to explain how most of the current ones fit this definition?

It is relevant because people seems to dislike the fact that you have to actually do or work a bit for the achievements.
If we actually look for the definition it is rather clear that an achievement is something you actually should have to work for. Either with skill or with time.

Then why is it you get 5 AP for donating 3 silver to Ho-Ho tron, but only 3 AP for playing 30 Snowball Mayhem games?

Lazaar.9123:

Then why is it you get 5 AP for donating 3 silver to Ho-Ho tron, but only 3 AP for playing 30 Snowball Mayhem games?

Because you can repeat the Snowball achievement?

lordkrall.7241:

It is relevant because people seems to dislike the fact that you have to actually do or work a bit for the achievements.
If we actually look for the definition it is rather clear that an achievement is something you actually should have to work for. Either with skill or with time.

So a tiny bit of work is okay? But not too much?

What is your opinion if I made a new thread asking for achievements to be modified so they represent “great” effort as noted in your dictionary definition? We could start with the earlier examples I mentioned…

You should be all for this, right? After all, that would bring things more in line with your own citation.

DaveGan.8065:

So a tiny bit of work is okay? But not too much?

What is your opinion if I made a new thread asking for achievements to be modified so they represent “great” effort as noted in your dictionary definition? We could start with the earlier examples I mentioned…

You should be all for this, right? After all, that would bring things more in line with your own citation.

I have never said anything about the amount of work.
I would have no issues with achievements taking much more effort to be honest. In fact I would love to have a bunch really hard achievements.

The new Living Story ones are a step in the right direction, but it should be getting even harder in my opinion.

lordkrall.7241:

I have never said anything about the amount of work.

You sort of did with your dictionary citation of “great effort etc etc”

As for the rest, it’s good to see that you passed the hypocrisy test while others have been asked a very similar question and dodged.

lordkrall.7241:

a•chieve•ment (??t?iv m?nt)

n.
1. something accomplished, as through great effort, skill, perseverance, or courage.
2. the act of achieving; attainment or accomplishment.

I’ll just leave this here.

Good joke. There were some achievements in this game reliant on great skill, effort, perseverance, or courage. Still looking at the people who complained about Liadri or Triple Trouble….likely the same people who tried to cheese them or gave up altogether.

Let’s not lie to each other. There is nothing remotely challenging about the dailies. There never was. That’s ok. They’re not there to challenge anyone. They’re there to encourage people to play daily! (duh) They did a pretty good job at that.

Regarding some of the changes however, I have to agree with the OP. Let’s take a daily like “Complete 4 events in X Zone.” Used to be that you could complete events anywhere in Tyria and boom. Now you have people flooding a zone to wait for events to spawn. It reminds me a little of waiting on mob respawns in WoW. Certainly not what GW2 was about IMO.

In my eyes, the only thing that this does is extend the time needed to complete this daily by making players wait for the events to spawn. Completing 4 Events in Caledon is not an achievement. It’s not “something accomplished as through great effort, skill, perseverance, or courage”. Let’s not pretend it is.

Now, is this a huge deal for me? Not really. I play PvE/PvP/WvW. The daily is very quick for folks like me. I can imagine it’s much more inconvenient for PvE only players though.

lordkrall.7241:

I have never said anything about the amount of work.
I would have no issues with achievements taking much more effort to be honest. In fact I would love to have a bunch really hard achievements.

The new Living Story ones are a step in the right direction, but it should be getting even harder in my opinion.

1. Yes, yes you did. Right in your previous post. "It is relevant because people seems to dislike the fact that you have to actually do or work a bit for the achievements. "

2. No one is arguing about how “hard” the achievments are. Pressing the 1 key to get participation in the mini-game is not what I consider hard. It’s about the ridicilous time it consumes.

3. If by the end of the Wintersday you can show me ANYONE who has maxed out Snowball Mayhem (not even talking about the others here, which together consume about 60 more hours – will do math if needed), I will join the ranks of glorious Anet defenders forever, and we can vanquish evil side-by-side. Deal?

Saint.5647:

Good joke. There were some achievements in this game reliant on great skill, effort, perseverance, or courage. Still looking at the people who complained about Liadri or Triple Trouble….likely the same people who tried to cheese them or gave up altogether.

Let’s not lie to each other. There is nothing remotely challenging about the dailies.

Notice how his definition cites (as do you) perseverance. Playing 150 rounds of Snowball Mayhem might not be challenging you on a skill level the same way Master-league in Starcraft 2 is, but it requires persistence and effort.

In a way, whoever said above that they should start a thread asking for all achievements to take significantly more effort is right: Most current achievements are pointless.
They require nothing. You get them automatically, more or less. Why even have them in that case? Just because the skinner box trick works so well and there’s a significant amount of people whose brains will encourage them to continue doing something they don’t enjoy at all? (and hence lash out when the amount increases, as per this thread)

Because yes, it does work. Basic game design.
But it’s also really really kittenty game design, and frankly I’d like a game to have zero automatic achievements for once.

lordkrall.7241:

Lazaar.9123:

Then why is it you get 5 AP for donating 3 silver to Ho-Ho tron, but only 3 AP for playing 30 Snowball Mayhem games?

Because you can repeat the Snowball achievement?

And how does that change it, if it still requires a lot more effort, for far less AP? Another example is the gold donation to Ho Ho tron, which gives 25 for next to no effort of donating 3 gold, which is very easy to come across. Compare that to the 15 total AP of the Snowball Mayhem repeatable, which can take at least 12 hours if you constantly play it with no breaks. Achievements have never had equal AP value to the amount of effort required, so that dictionary definition applies nowhere to this. This is not something you can be correct about krall, get used to this.

Heck, you even only get 5 AP for making a legendary.

Lazaar.9123:

Compare that to the 15 total AP of the Snowball Mayhem repeatable, which can take at least 12 hours if you constantly play it with no breaks.

Slight correction: It’s 30 hours counting with 10 min of playing and 2 mins of loading/ready up.

I will never understand this compulsion that some have to get EVERY SINGLE AP, even if it means doing things they don’t like.

Did you ever consider that these are set up to be merely token rewards for people who really like each particular activity? And to ensure that they continue to get at least a small reward, even if they choose to play (something they like) an awful lot over wintersday? Or that they are not designed to be something where every player has to do every single one?

This game gets way more fun once you accept that you can’t/don’t need to do every single thing.

It is considered and well understood. That doesn’t change the problem tough, that it’s not completable (by human standards). I stated in a previous post that I actually like Snowball Mayhem, but I won’t spend 30 hours in it however. No one will. So why make it that way? It just kittenes people off.

Bubi.7942:

It is considered and well understood. That doesn’t change the problem tough, that it’s not completable (by human standards). I stated in a previous post that I actually like Snowball Mayhem, but I won’t spend 30 hours in it however. No one will. So why make it that way? It just kittenes people off.

Exactly my point. It’s approximately “infinite”. Maybe you’re not supposed to max everything.

Bubi.7942:

It is considered and well understood. That doesn’t change the problem tough, that it’s not completable (by human standards). I stated in a previous post that I actually like Snowball Mayhem, but I won’t spend 30 hours in it however. No one will. So why make it that way? It just kittenes people off.

you can just play 1 hour a day.

I’m pretty sure everyone I know is doing the same thing everyday. Teq, dungeon, spvp, wvw.

If you find it boring, move on. Previously my goal is to get map completion on 40 toons. But it start getting really boring, so I’m stuck on 25. I didnt’ come on the forum and start complaining about it because I can’t make 40 map completion.

thehipone.6812:

I will never understand this compulsion that some have to get EVERY SINGLE AP, even if it means doing things they don’t like.

Did you ever consider that these are set up to be merely token rewards for people who really like each particular activity? And to ensure that they continue to get at least a small reward, even if they choose to play (something they like) an awful lot over wintersday? Or that they are not designed to be something where every player has to do every single one?

This game gets way more fun once you accept that you can’t/don’t need to do every single thing.

This! You don’t have to get every single AP (and this is coming from somebody who is about to hit 23k).

I pretty much ignore any limited time repeatables.

As for the dailies, you actually have to go and do them now if you want the reward for it or do 3 of them if you want the AP.

Before you’d get your daily pretty easily doing whatever, so they just took that reward and gave it to you anyway. If you want the rest of it, you have to go and get it. This is fine by me, and I think the new rewards are great, and often worth getting even if you’ve already done your 3 for the AP.

Granted that you can go without getting this APs for the repeatables with little consequence. I for one will probably not be doing the jump puzzle 75 times or playing 150 rounds of snowball.

But, I understand OP’s sentiment here. There are people that try to get as much available AP as you miss points on temp content you miss them for good. There is no recourse in obtaining them again and put you behind others permanently. Because of that AP rewards should be a bit more reasonable when available for a limited time.

Like the Inquisition was ridiculous. 80 rounds? in under 2 weeks? That was just plain silly. With each round taking near 15 minutes because the goal of that game was to survive the round. You would have had to do that for 90 minutes EVERY day doing only that to get all the AP.

Anet, you need to keep these reasonable or at-least make it consistent with daily and add a cap to temporary AP obtained. The AP system is still extremely tilted against players that did not play from the very beginning or miss a period of time within the game’s life.

I did all the needed achievements (the eleven seasonals) in a day. My day off. I think it took, maybe, four hours at best. Didn’t do the jumping puzzle nor the snowball fight. Wasn’t required. Haven’t stepped into those areas because they don’t interest me.

Got the basic. Got out. And got over it.

This nonstop complaining about something not even required is rather ridiculous.

What’s the point on getting high AP anyway. Besides hellfire armor, and it’s not like there isn’t 1000 other armor skins you can use.

If it is for kitten… well you won’t have your kitten if high AP is easy to get anyway.

ps. The word that got censored is an internet slang for ego, pride, or attitude in the virtual world.

laokoko.7403:

What’s the point on getting high AP anyway. Besides hellfire armor, and it’s not like there isn’t 1000 other armor skins you can use.

If it is for kitten… well you won’t have your kitten if high AP is easy to get anyway.

Hellfire? Pfft. It’s all about the radiant!

laokoko.7403:

What’s the point on getting high AP anyway. Besides hellfire armor, and it’s not like there isn’t 1000 other armor skins you can use.

If it is for kitten… well you won’t have your kitten if high AP is easy to get anyway.

There isn’t any. Once I’ve gotten the armor pieces I’ll have no reason to farm AP.

laokoko.7403:

If you find it boring, move on. Previously my goal is to get map completion on 40 toons. But it start getting really boring, so I’m stuck on 25. I didnt’ come on the forum and start complaining about it because I can’t make 40 map completion.

This analogy is not really simulating the situation here. Let me try to put it in a form that represents the problem better. So you like map completion, that’s ok, I don’t really like it, but if it’s your thing, why not (as completing the repeatables is not your thing, but it is mine).

The difference is, that for map completion, you have infinite time, for the WD repeatables, the time is limited. Imagine if you had to do map completion under 1 month, everything you do after 1 month, just doesn’t count for it, and you can never finish it.

Also, in order for Forsgorge Sound completion, you have to defeat the Claw of Jormag 150 times, cause that unlocks a POI. Per character. I hope that sheds a better light on the problem.

ANet could actually add ‘challenging’ stuff for AP and not repeatable boring grindy stuff like Snowball Mayhem. It’s a valid complaint.

This is kinda like the whole ‘capture 50 mercenary camps’ thing in WvW S1 all over again, which they eventually thought was stupid and fixed in S2 achievements.

Mireles Lore.5942:

But, I understand OP’s sentiment here. There are people that try to get as much available AP as you miss points on temp content you miss them for good. There is no recourse in obtaining them again and put you behind others permanently. Because of that AP rewards should be a bit more reasonable when available for a limited time. .

There are people like that, who want to grind out every last possible AP. However, I’m in the top 1000 players for AP (I’m around 700-ish)… and I skip all sorts of time limited achievements, if they’re too grindy or annoying. So clearly there aren’t very many people like that.

And if the achievements are too grindy or annoying, there inlies the problem, does it not? That’s what the topic is about.

Lazaar.9123:

And if the achievements are too grindy or annoying, there inlies the problem, does it not? That’s what the topic is about.

No? Grindy or annoying is subjective. I’ve done a couple of iterations of the infinite Bell Choir one, simply because I enjoy doing a full round of that each day. I’ve barely touched the Snowball Mayhem or JP ones, though.

As stated before in this thread: these achievements aren’t meant for grinding, they’re to give a little reward to people who particularly enjoy doing one of the activities. It’s not really intended that people max out even one of them, let alone all of them.

The problem lies in those players who feel compelled to do so, even though they know they won’t enjoy it and know it’s not worth their time.

Well actually, said people that only play them to have fun get bonus rewards anyway, and that happens anyway once you reach the AP cap for the respective achievement, so that argument is fairly irrelevant.

The point is, last year had the same repeatable achievements, but they wern’t absolutely ridiculous like they are this year.

Lazaar.9123:

Well actually, said people that only play them to have fun get bonus rewards anyway, and that happens anyway once you reach the AP cap for the respective achievement, so that argument is fairly irrelevant.

The point is, last year had the same repeatable achievements, but they wern’t absolutely ridiculous like they are this year.

Did you also notice that last year, when the repeatable achievements were more easily achievable, that far more people attempted them… and then far more people complained about how grindy and difficult they were? This year, most people have taken one look and said “lol, nope. I’m not doing all of them.” And so there’s barely been any complaining.

The bonus rewards are 3 presents, which are a fairly minimal reward. Nothing wrong with accompanying that with a fairly minimal amount of AP, imo. Remember, these are meant to be infinite, meaning you never get to the end of the achievement. The only reason the AP is maxed, is that if it weren’t, some players would try and grind out 10k AP during Wintersday. So they set the AP cap at a point higher than any reasonable player would reach… but they do set a cap.

Olvendred.3027:

Lazaar.9123:

Well actually, said people that only play them to have fun get bonus rewards anyway, and that happens anyway once you reach the AP cap for the respective achievement, so that argument is fairly irrelevant.

The point is, last year had the same repeatable achievements, but they wern’t absolutely ridiculous like they are this year.

Did you also notice that last year, when the repeatable achievements were more easily achievable, that far more people attempted them… and then far more people complained about how grindy and difficult they were? This year, most people have taken one look and said “lol, nope. I’m not doing all of them.” And so there’s barely been any complaining.

The bonus rewards are 3 presents, which are a fairly minimal reward. Nothing wrong with accompanying that with a fairly minimal amount of AP, imo. Remember, these are meant to be infinite, meaning you never get to the end of the achievement. The only reason the AP is maxed, is that if it weren’t, some players would try and grind out 10k AP during Wintersday. So they set the AP cap at a point higher than any reasonable player would reach… but they do set a cap.

And if the achievements have an AP cap, does that not mean the AP part of it actually is about the achievement hunters? Your opinion is just parroted off other people, who also don’t really know what they’re talking about and just white knight anything they possibly can.

If the people that enjoy doing it actually do, then they wouldn’t ask for a bonus reward in the first place as that’s not what they’re playing it for. So, once again, the argument is invalid.

Also of note, I have not met anyone while playing Snowball Mayhem that enjoys playing even over 60 games of it, but that is another problem of the matchmaking being so awful.

Lazaar.9123:

The amount of activities completed this year is more than triple of last years, and last years were a lot more bearable. So yeah, they can make achievements that take a bit of effort, without making them absolutely ridiculous like this years.

Check out the WvW achievements before claiming that these carnival achievements are ridiculous.. ;-)

Tribio.8531:

Lazaar.9123:

The amount of activities completed this year is more than triple of last years, and last years were a lot more bearable. So yeah, they can make achievements that take a bit of effort, without making them absolutely ridiculous like this years.

Check out the WvW achievements before claiming that these carnival achievements are ridiculous.. ;-)

I know about them, but there has already been so many threads about them as it is, (ArenaNet said they were going to fix it but then got lazy and stopped less than a quarter through).

Olvendred.3027:

As stated before in this thread: these achievements aren’t meant for grinding, they’re to give a little reward to people who particularly enjoy doing one of the activities. It’s not really intended that people max out even one of them, let alone all of them.

The problem lies in those players who feel compelled to do so, even though they know they won’t enjoy it and know it’s not worth their time.

Are they?

I’ve been thinking about this a lot. Let’s put aside all that has been said here before and let’s try to think with a new perspective. The dev’s perspective. Here are a few questions:

For who is this achievment designed for?

- Casual players?
Certainly not, they will most likely never finish 30 rounds of Snowball Mayhem (SM from now on, ironic) or any other activity, will likely not even complete 1 tier

- Is it a reward for those who enjoy it?
Fair enough, but does anyone enjoy SM that much that they will dedicate 30 hours of pure playtime (that’s not counting wee-wee breaks, phone calls, heck, actually talking with your family etc..). So in reality it’s more close to 40-45 hours but let’s stick with 30. Be honest, do you think, that anyone, who plays this cause it’s fun, will complete the repeatable track?

- AP hunters? – Most likely, cause even if you enjoy it (and I must say again, I like all WD activities) you’ll never do this ‘accidently for fun’. You have to push yourself to get it done.

So I’ve come to the conclusion that the repeatable track rewards are for AP hunters. Why else would you put so much rounds in it?

But wait, there’s more.

I find SM being the main culprit here. I don’t find Bell land, Toypocalypse or JP too out of touch with reality, they are doable, you can spread out your time and do them, sure. But let’s take a closer look at SM, and see how it sticks out.

Do the math with me!

Bell choir: 26,25 full games required – 1 game is 8 mins long + 2 mins waiting time etc. So 10 mins. That’s ~ 4 hours 20 mins total.

Winter wonderland: 75 full games required – 1 game is 2,5 mins long, add some dying and mistakes, and you’ll get 3,5 mins of avarage run. So that’s 75×3/60 = That’s 4 hours 20 mins total again… (depending on skill, add or take away 1 hour)

Toypocalypse: You need 15 full games. An avarage game is about 15 mins long, plus 2 mins waiting time. So completing it takes: 4 hours 15 mins.

Snowball Mayhem: You need 150 rounds total. An avarage game is 10 mins long + 2 mins loading, get ready stage. That’s 30 hours for total completion.

Please take a good look at these numbers. Can we conclude, that something is really kittened up here?

Next quesiton:
Why is it this way?

- My best guess: Someone at Anet took a look at Bell choir which is 210 songs total, Toypocalypse, which is 150 rounds total and said: “Hey, if those are 150-210, SM should be fine with 150 too, even tough I have no idea how long these activities take individually.”

Final conclusion:
The decision made on the rounds to maxing out SM is a careless, toughtless, non-caring random number thrown in.

Edit: Oh and the result of all this? Well, see for yourself: https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/AFK-in-Snowball-Mayhem/first#post4646075

Bubi.7942:

~snip because quoting a long post makes clutter~

Couldn’t have said it better myself honestly.