Guild Wars 2

Hey there!

I’ve stumbled across a thread in the forums of a quite popular MMO. The story you can read there is both heartbraking and encouraging, but also one that affects us all, even here in GW2. Because oneself was either the “noob” or the “pro”.

Applied to GW, there are several aspects that can be discussed.

• One might be: Would this poor old guy have the same problems in GW2 as in WoW? How much help would he get 1. from the game 2. from the players? In other words: How friendly is this game towards beginners?

• Another aspect might be, how far the “pros” can lift up as compared to the rest of the players. Means, how much more skill can one acquire in this game and is there a limit?

• Or you could also simply ask yourself: How many people have you helped and how many helped you?

etc.

My opinion:
Considering how young GW2 still is, I don’t think it would escalate that much as it happened to the guy (server-wide known “noob” and hated by many). However, you can see tendencies that this might become more real in the future. Not talking about that guys in front of a dungeon looking for “lvl 80 exotic only”, “ZERK WARRIORS ONLY” etc (although their number increases).

It is more about the prejudices people have against “randoms” and “PUGS”. Yes, prejudices. Of course you might get a group member who only trolls, insults and quits during a dungeon or whatever. But they are a minority. Report them.
Most people play MMOs like GW2 to have fun with others. They even paid money to do that Give them a chance, you won’t regret it.

On the other hand, ArenaNet might also consider improvements. Starting with a better introduction to the game itself (at least tell people to use /wiki because it is a great help) to a better “We achieved this goal together” feeling (defeating a dragon champion doesn’t feel like that at all). A group finder is fortunately to be expected in the near future.

There’s also a Reddit post with some quite good statements: http://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/186apk/with_all_the_80s_only_or_full_exo_set_only_being/

Thanks for reading

Tl;dr: Don’t see the noob, see the guy behind his monitor.

Speaking from my own experience on desolation EU ive not seen any elitism as such yet. Ive seen people asking for experienced oplayers only etc but i dont see that as elitism. i see the " you must have xxx and xxx to be in this run as elitism". this I havent seen.

Oh i mean there ares ome horrid people but there are also some really nice people so its all good atm

No different to life. A lot of people like to belittle others to give them there sense of self worth as a cover for their own insecurities

yeah alot of people project without realising there projecting.

Trolling is your best weapon.
Use it.

Trolling > Elitism

But do it with style and grace.

Firegoth.6427:

Trolling is your best weapon.
Use it.

Trolling > Elitism

But do it with style and grace.

How you troll a party that kicks you because they need another warrior to set up the 4 war+1 mes trinity group?

Valento.9852:

Firegoth.6427:

Trolling is your best weapon.
Use it.

Trolling > Elitism

But do it with style and grace.

How you troll a party that kicks you because they need another warrior to set up the 4 war+1 mes trinity group?

That’s not elitism, I myself sometimes looking for a quick run without too much hassle.
So I’ll use one of my warriors or my mesmer for such group.

You can use gw2lfg.com to look for a regular group.
Some people just want to be more efficient, it has nothing to do with elitism in your case.

This game has a much better community than most I have played, and the elitism is minimal from my personal experiences. I love that GW2 promotes team work, and helping others between the half dead state (helping to revive players) and randomly helping to contribute to events I don’t see GW2 going in the direction of elitism unless Anet makes some really bad calls such as gear scores, real dps parsers, and things like that..Those promote elitism.

The difference is….

You can get groups if you suck. Just don’t join the speedrun/warriordpsonly type groups.

There’s dozens upon dozens of lfg’s that don’t require such things.

I enjoy the social aspect of these MMO’s more than anything i think. When i do dungeons, i do not care who joins my party and will also stay in the dungeon until it is complete no matter how long it takes. I actually like taking new groups through or doing story modes with people, helping them along. But i don’t think that it matters what game you play, the ‘elitist’ gamers who will do things one way and never accept anything else… they forgot what gaming is. I also go to low level areas a lot to just run around and do stuff sometimes.. Other MMOs that i have played, if i get no help from other players and no one goes out and talks to new me i will lose interest in the game and quit quite fast. luckily in this game i met like minded people in my guild and dungeon group.

All we can do is .. well.. quite obviously, that one thing that most of us hear ’oh so often. treat others as you would like to be treated. perhaps the more we do that the more we will see it in return.

Meowwilson.5106:

I enjoy the social aspect of these MMO’s more than anything i think. When i do dungeons, i do not care who joins my party and will also stay in the dungeon until it is complete no matter how long it takes. I actually like taking new groups through or doing story modes with people, helping them along. But i don’t think that it matters what game you play, the ‘elitist’ gamers who will do things one way and never accept anything else… they forgot what gaming is. I also go to low level areas a lot to just run around and do stuff sometimes.. Other MMOs that i have played, if i get no help from other players and no one goes out and talks to new me i will lose interest in the game and quit quite fast. luckily in this game i met like minded people in my guild and dungeon group.

All we can do is .. well.. quite obviously, that one thing that most of us hear ’oh so often. treat others as you would like to be treated. perhaps the more we do that the more we will see it in return.

I never forgot what gaming was, if anything, I’d quit the game by now if I didn’t have any fun. (why play a game I hate???)
Efficiency IS fun for some of us! Sorry but running the same path hundreds of times is just not fun, no matter the time gap between each run.
But speedrunning it? and having the rush feeling involved? yes please.

While I don’t have time for kitten in game, helpful advice is always welcome. None of us started knowing everything and as a rule I don’t mind going out of my way to explain something to a new or even not so new player.
But I also think that it’s the responsibility of each and every one of us to research a bit about the classes we are playing or the dungeon bosses abilities, or at the very least ask about class/dungeon mechanics. I can easily play with someone that is not perfect but has the will to improve than with someone that either doesn’t care or thinks that they already learned everything there is to learn.
Damage meters, add-ons or inspect features are just tools that give you information. What you do with it is up to you. You can use it to discriminate against other players or you can use it to improve yourself and help others improve themselves.

Firegoth.6427:

Meowwilson.5106:

I enjoy the social aspect of these MMO’s more than anything i think. When i do dungeons, i do not care who joins my party and will also stay in the dungeon until it is complete no matter how long it takes. I actually like taking new groups through or doing story modes with people, helping them along. But i don’t think that it matters what game you play, the ‘elitist’ gamers who will do things one way and never accept anything else… they forgot what gaming is. I also go to low level areas a lot to just run around and do stuff sometimes.. Other MMOs that i have played, if i get no help from other players and no one goes out and talks to new me i will lose interest in the game and quit quite fast. luckily in this game i met like minded people in my guild and dungeon group.

All we can do is .. well.. quite obviously, that one thing that most of us hear ’oh so often. treat others as you would like to be treated. perhaps the more we do that the more we will see it in return.

I never forgot what gaming was, if anything, I’d quit the game by now if I didn’t have any fun. (why play a game I hate???)
Efficiency IS fun for some of us! Sorry but running the same path hundreds of times is just not fun, no matter the time gap between each run.
But speedrunning it? and having the rush feeling involved? yes please.

I made lots of gaming buds from them slow, tedious, dungeon runs but cannot name a person i did a speed run with. I am casual gamer though, i suppose you might be the opposite on the friends you remember names of.. lol
Perhaps i should have added “in my opinion” since there is certainly not just one view on gaming (i.e. my own) lol

Meowwilson.5106:

Firegoth.6427:

Meowwilson.5106:

I enjoy the social aspect of these MMO’s more than anything i think. When i do dungeons, i do not care who joins my party and will also stay in the dungeon until it is complete no matter how long it takes. I actually like taking new groups through or doing story modes with people, helping them along. But i don’t think that it matters what game you play, the ‘elitist’ gamers who will do things one way and never accept anything else… they forgot what gaming is. I also go to low level areas a lot to just run around and do stuff sometimes.. Other MMOs that i have played, if i get no help from other players and no one goes out and talks to new me i will lose interest in the game and quit quite fast. luckily in this game i met like minded people in my guild and dungeon group.

All we can do is .. well.. quite obviously, that one thing that most of us hear ’oh so often. treat others as you would like to be treated. perhaps the more we do that the more we will see it in return.

I never forgot what gaming was, if anything, I’d quit the game by now if I didn’t have any fun. (why play a game I hate???)
Efficiency IS fun for some of us! Sorry but running the same path hundreds of times is just not fun, no matter the time gap between each run.
But speedrunning it? and having the rush feeling involved? yes please.

I made lots of gaming buds from them slow, tedious, dungeon runs but cannot name a person i did a speed run with. I am casual gamer though, i suppose you might be the opposite on the friends you remember names of.. lol
Perhaps i should have added “in my opinion” since there is certainly not just one view on gaming (i.e. my own) lol

Not all of us are friendly people

A real friend is someone who you can call his baby ugly without him going apekitten on you. I don’t need virtual buds, real ones will be enough for me.
As scarce as they are.

I have been kicked from many many groups for not knowing boss mechanics, I just shrug it off. I prefer to learn about boss fights by actually learning about them in game, by doing the battles.

eisberg.2379:

I have been kicked from many many groups for not knowing boss mechanics, I just shrug it off. I prefer to learn about boss fights by actually learning about them in game, by doing the battles.

Good going! That is the spirit!

But if you are terrible in my group, I will still kick you.

“Elitism is the belief or attitude that some individuals, who form an elite — a select group of people with a certain ancestry, intrinsic quality or worth, higher intellect, wealth, specialized training or experience, or other distinctive attributes — are those whose influence or authority is greater than that of others; whose views on a matter are to be taken the most seriously or carry the most weight; whose views or actions are most likely to be constructive to society as a whole; or whose extraordinary skills, abilities, or wisdom render them especially fit to govern.¹”-wiki

Elitism rears its ugly head in every MMO Ive ever played. Players who view themselves as elitists seem to get more enjoyment in some hierarchical competition where they vie for top spot, parameters such as best gear, world firsts, timed instance runs and such.

They suck the fun out of groups with rude behavior usually with name calling and nasty tells in an attempt to belittle a person they deem inadequate. Ive always thought it was hilarious and a little sad that someone plays a game like GW2 as a job and ties real self esteem to an imaginary world where you actually dont accomplish anything tangible.

Some people are compelled to make whatever they do a rat race environment as if everyday life outside of Tyria wasnt bad enough. I came to the conclusion (after repeated contact with these ’Elitist" players) that A.) these people in general spend an inordinate amount of time playing video games. This itself more than any other factor leads to real mental and physical health problems in turn these people grow frustrated with other people they encounter in game that are not as experienced and therefore not as competent as they are due to real life time constraints.

If your playing a MMO like its a full time job (with overtime) of course your going to blow through the content and become bored very fast and behave in an antsy and agitated way when you are grouped with players who prehaps are new to the game or play a lot less than you.

The only way to be satisfied is find other full time GW2 players and start an All-Star guild leave the other segments of the game alone. Ive seen the elitist, MMO addicted, hardcore player base destroy communities with basically what amounts to bullying. Im led to believe that these people are very sad lonely individuals who enjoy feeling superior in a game that’s supposed to be for fun in one’s leisure time.

Remember next time someone starts whining, belittling you or acting irrational, they have probably been sitting in front of their monitor for 8-hours plus and have a very distorted view of the world.

runeblade.7514:

eisberg.2379:

I have been kicked from many many groups for not knowing boss mechanics, I just shrug it off. I prefer to learn about boss fights by actually learning about them in game, by doing the battles.

Good going! That is the spirit!

But if you are terrible in my group, I will still kick you.

:D

Whoever ignored, blocked, or kicked that guy is to blame for this player’s inadequacy and ignorance . How can one learn, if no one answers his questions, if no one explains, or shows him how things are done properly? The fact that he did things wrong is not his fault.

We’ve all been new once. Not knowing what to do. Some figure things out quickly. Others need a little more time. Is that such a crime? Is a perfect dungeon run so important? I’m sure the majority of the community wouldn’t mind helping a new player out. But the new player shouldn’t hide the fact that he’s new either. It’s then, that people will get upset, when they were under the impression that everyone knew what to do.

Though I think elitism will increase as the game gets older, I just can’t imagine an entire server shunning one GW2 player of being inadequate. And why would you? It takes so little to help someone out. Kindness isn’t ever wasted.

i play wow on and off as friends are on wow and wont come here. I wont even do random dungeons anymore because its kill or be killed. if you do even the slightest thing wrong you get ABUSED and booted from the dungeon. Some tanks even go as far as posting recount stats in the public chat to humiliate you completely. its a horrible game for trolling and bullying. its quite sad. GW past and present has never had that problem. we have a law of courtesy, and I do hope that never changes.

*
I even got to know some stuff about his personal life and his family situation, and there were a lot of problems.
He was old, and he was just trying to have fun playing WoW, because he was stressed from the real world out there.
*

I think this is why a lot of people play games, to get some escape from the real world.
To relax and play a game.

Elitism i think is not as wide spread as some think.
Most just play to have fun with others.

In gw1 i was in a guild where no one cared what your build was, or how much so called dps you did. We played together to get rid of our real world sorrows for a moment.
Our guild leader had this quirk that she allways wanted to die first lol.
No problem, it was allways a good laugh.
This guild was not for everyone, and some even thought we were crazy probably
but it was good times.
Some of these people are still my inet friends , and probably will be until i am dead and burried 8-).

You just need to find the right people to play with.

I try to make it a point to help out people if they ask for it. I spend time explaining mechanics, make sure everyone knows the fights before hand, and so on. If we need to pick a guy up, we don’t discriminate if they’re new to the dungeon.

In beta, me and my mate spent half an hour with someone that didn’t understand combo fields.

I think what elitists forget is at one time, they were beginners as well.

Valento.9852:

Firegoth.6427:

Trolling is your best weapon.
Use it.

Trolling > Elitism

But do it with style and grace.

How you troll a party that kicks you because they need another warrior to set up the 4 war+1 mes trinity group?

Join a guild and never mess with pugs again?

I know i’ll probably come of as bias and a whatever…

But i blame Fractals of the Mists, before that dungeon and Ascended turned up, this game and its community were pretty good, after that it divided the community real bad added elitism and it just degenerated from there…

Dante.1508:

I know i’ll probably come of as bias and a whatever…

But i blame Fractals of the Mists, before that dungeon and Ascended turned up, this game and its community were pretty good, after that it divided the community real bad added elitism and it just degenerated from there…

Unfortunately…true. But the whine about “nuthin to do at 80” before was pretty intense here. Seems less now…but maybe I’ve just gotten used to it.

But, in retrospect, I don’t think the inclusion of Fractals and Ascended did the community overall any favors. For whatever hindsight is worth.

Raf

Dante.1508:

I know i’ll probably come of as bias and a whatever…

But i blame Fractals of the Mists, before that dungeon and Ascended turned up, this game and its community were pretty good, after that it divided the community real bad added elitism and it just degenerated from there…

No I think it’s about right.

This is what happens when you push away the more laid back crowd and give in to the locusts that keep wanting more and more the faster the better.

Re: ‘prejudice’ against PUGs -

I’ve had 3 experiences with adding a PUG to a guild dungeon run to make up numbers. One quit randomly right before the final boss because we were going too slow. One went afk 2 minutes after we entered the run because he ‘had to go eat dinner’. One was fine.

At this point, I don’t want to run dungeon groups with people I don’t know. Because of my bad experiences. This isn’t prejudice, this is post-judice.

And yeah, there was a definite spike in the elite-only LFG posts and the forum elitism after the FotM patch.

What a read.

I haven’t played WoW, but I don’t want to see these raid come to GW2 if it promotes such attitudes. I understand, these are multi hour events and people don’t want to waste time. Time is not something we have a lot of these day.

Personally, I think the communities here are pretty friendly in the games infancy.

I know at the heart Noo b, New b, Nu b were just other spellings of newbie, but have come to mean more than someone new entering the game. Slang derivative of slang I guess. I always got the feeling when someone was called a Noob it was because they knew what to do but was just terrible at accomplishing it. Newbie I always just thought was someone new to the game. I could be wrong, making me a nooby knewby.

I personally will run dungeons, map content, wvw or spvp with anyone new or not. I just ask that a person doesn’t give up if we don’t get it done the first time. There are times for the fast speed runs and times to relax. I do both, w/e I’m in the mood for. I run with guildies, I run with pugs. Honestly, I just want to play the game and don’t care who I do it with as long as I’m having fun and party members aren’t trashing someone who is there for the first time.

Sometimes it actually puts a smile on face to know someone who hasn’t been through some of the content is aboard and we are tackling it together. Always has in every MMO I’ve played to date. It’s not always about me. Pave it forward I guess. People take chances on me all time so I do the same, real talk, real life or ingame.

Elitism irritates me, for just this reason; heaven forbid someone can actually sit down and play a game with others without being criticized. Just the other day, I met a brand new player (who I almost missed because a I was looking at my guild chat and not my say). She started asking me a whole bunch of questions; what armor is that and how did you get it, how do I get weapons, whats the best way to level up, etc, etc. I tried to explain a few things like the tp and skills, and I was met with the absolute worst case of confusion from this person. I had been planning to log off, but I ended up staying on for an extra hour to explain aspects of the game. I eventually gave her 10s, some bags, armor and afterwords invited her to my guild, where me and my buddies are helping her learn the game. It made my day knowing I’m helping out a new player. Any elitists who exclude anyone like that player in that thread should be perma banned for corrupting our community. Spread the love, not the hate.

Tower Guard.5263:

What a read.

I haven’t played WoW, but I don’t want to see these raid come to GW2 if it promotes such attitudes. I understand, these are multi hour events and people don’t want to waste time. Time is not something we have a lot of these day.

We DONT want wowers coming here. A wower, wouldnt even res you if you were dead, they would run past. If you play wow, just say its crap and theres nothing to do at 80. That should keep them away.

… All lies of course

What i don’t get is that players complain regardless of whether the meta needs 4 warriors and a mesmer for speedclear or 4 warriors and a healer. If you don’t want optimal build setups and team comps in a social environment where the kaleidoscopic nature of your (human) being is shown to you in other players, maybe MMOs aren’t for you.

I for one think that the casual / console player has ruined a lot of opportunity for good design in this game. If they didn’t focus so much on appeasing everyone, especially the people that just up and leave the game,we’d maybe have more solid combat roles and depth.

I think that the players that complain about elitism just need to reassess the nature of MMO gaming. If you want everyone to be the same and equally viable, why don’t you just play a console RPG where no one cares what you do with your character or a fighter game where everything is the same except for flavor and aesthetic (what GW2 is becoming)?

The parallel in real life is the person that wants a high paying job but doesn’t want to work for the college degree required to obtain the position.

You don’t have to have a job, but if you want to function in society, you kitten well better try and conform.

Same as in MMORPGs, which are microcosms of the population’s psychology. Maybe you want the social interaction that a console game can’t provide, but you don’t want the social trappings that go along with people and the nature of our being. Seems to me that these people would be compared to the minority in society rather than the majority.

Maybe MMO gaming just isn’t for you, not that i condone hatred or gating, but if you can’t comprehend what i just said, CoD is that way →

lothefallen.7081:

What i don’t get is that players complain regardless of whether the meta needs 4 warriors and a mesmer for speedclear or 4 warriors and a healer. If you don’t want optimal build setups and team comps in a social environment where the kaleidoscopic nature of your (human) being is shown to you in other players, maybe MMOs aren’t for you.

I for one think that the casual / console player has ruined a lot of opportunity for good design in this game. If they didn’t focus so much on appeasing everyone, especially the people that just up and leave the game,we’d maybe have more solid combat roles and depth.

I think that the players that complain about elitism just need to reassess the nature of MMO gaming. If you want everyone to be the same and equally viable, why don’t you just play a console RPG where no one cares what you do with your character or a fighter game where everything is the same except for flavor and aesthetic (what GW2 is becoming)?

The parallel in real life is the person that wants a high paying job but doesn’t want to work for the college degree required to obtain the position.

You don’t have to have a job, but if you want to function in society, you kitten well better try and conform.

Same as in MMORPGs, which are microcosms of the population’s psychology. Maybe you want the social interaction that a console game can’t provide, but you don’t want the social trappings that go along with people and the nature of our being. Seems to me that these people would be compared to the minority in society rather than the majority.

Maybe MMO gaming just isn’t for you, not that i condone hatred or gating, but if you can’t comprehend what i just said, CoD is that way ->

You have some nice points.
And after all this is just a game, if i want to hang out with my friends casually i will just go outside but when i go online i wanna play with guys on my lvl (and i am nowhere near pro or elitist, i learn from better just like everyone else who wants to be good) unless i have some spare time so i can help new player (mostly from guild if they need help)

mmo gaming is is for everyone.

lots of different people in mmo’s, you just need to find them.
Im not saying thats easy, but they are there.

i dont agree that you should see a mmo as a parallel to real life.
I got a 8 hour daytime job, and then some, and im not looking for that in a mmo.

Do as you please in this game, no one has the right to tell you what you should and
should not do. But i disagree that we all should become pro’s like we are in real life( or maybe not lol)

Just find the right guild or the right friends and your set to go with what ever you want.

Three reasons not to have dungeons in a game that’s supposed to be about DE metas.

gear elitism
level elitism
required knowledge about every boss fight or encounter prior to running the dungeon the first time.

Seems to me it would make things alot better for this title if they’d just return entirely to their manifesto and be done with it.

lothefallen.7081:

What i don’t get is that players complain regardless of whether the meta needs 4 warriors and a mesmer for speedclear or 4 warriors and a healer. If you don’t want optimal build setups and team comps in a social environment where the kaleidoscopic nature of your (human) being is shown to you in other players, maybe MMOs aren’t for you.

I for one think that the casual / console player has ruined a lot of opportunity for good design in this game. If they didn’t focus so much on appeasing everyone, especially the people that just up and leave the game,we’d maybe have more solid combat roles and depth.

I think that the players that complain about elitism just need to reassess the nature of MMO gaming. If you want everyone to be the same and equally viable, why don’t you just play a console RPG where no one cares what you do with your character or a fighter game where everything is the same except for flavor and aesthetic (what GW2 is becoming)?

The parallel in real life is the person that wants a high paying job but doesn’t want to work for the college degree required to obtain the position.

You don’t have to have a job, but if you want to function in society, you kitten well better try and conform.

Same as in MMORPGs, which are microcosms of the population’s psychology. Maybe you want the social interaction that a console game can’t provide, but you don’t want the social trappings that go along with people and the nature of our being. Seems to me that these people would be compared to the minority in society rather than the majority.

Maybe MMO gaming just isn’t for you, not that i condone hatred or gating, but if you can’t comprehend what i just said, CoD is that way ->

Heres the thing; what about those who work hard/want to work hard, but can’t be as successful? This is not real life, this is an MMO. We have the power to help those who want to do well in a video game. Why should we simply kick the nee guys down? Why should we assume that they just want the best stuff without working for it? The fact thar we have games like Gw2 where new players can join in with experts is great; the problem is when these elitists put others down because they aren’t on their level. There is nothing wrong with new/inexperienced players coming in and playing an MMO with others. They shouldn’t be stuck playing SP games. Here everyone can be equal, and we should strive to help others achieve that.

tigirius.9014:

Three reasons not to have dungeons in a game that’s supposed to be about DE metas.

gear elitism
level elitism
required knowledge about every boss fight or encounter prior to running the dungeon the first time.

Seems to me it would make things alot better for this title if they’d just return entirely to their manifesto and be done with it.

and one thing that ppl don’t mention – lack of tutorials. I mean i know when i started playing, many things were not explained properly (some traits still have this issue acording to wiki)
so maybe they should introduce some “easy” mode of explorer dungeon for new players to learn mechanics of it
but for fotm 20+ there are no excuses

I’ll say this about the Guild Wars community based on GW1

I logged on to GW1 a few months before the release of GW2, I had been playing WoW for a few years and had forgotten a bunch of basic stuff. I went into Kamadan and asked a bunch of questions which would have gotten me an enormous amount of negativity if I had asked in WoW. Not only did I get 4 or 5 different people immediately offering to help me, not one person gave me any grief over it.
I feel the same sense of community in GW2. And I did log back onto WoW a few months ago to give my stuff away to a friend who still plays that, and was just amazed at how hateful and immature the atmosphere was.

xCrusadentx.2784:

lothefallen.7081:

What i don’t get is that players complain regardless of whether the meta needs 4 warriors and a mesmer for speedclear or 4 warriors and a healer. If you don’t want optimal build setups and team comps in a social environment where the kaleidoscopic nature of your (human) being is shown to you in other players, maybe MMOs aren’t for you.

I for one think that the casual / console player has ruined a lot of opportunity for good design in this game. If they didn’t focus so much on appeasing everyone, especially the people that just up and leave the game,we’d maybe have more solid combat roles and depth.

I think that the players that complain about elitism just need to reassess the nature of MMO gaming. If you want everyone to be the same and equally viable, why don’t you just play a console RPG where no one cares what you do with your character or a fighter game where everything is the same except for flavor and aesthetic (what GW2 is becoming)?

The parallel in real life is the person that wants a high paying job but doesn’t want to work for the college degree required to obtain the position.

You don’t have to have a job, but if you want to function in society, you kitten well better try and conform.

Same as in MMORPGs, which are microcosms of the population’s psychology. Maybe you want the social interaction that a console game can’t provide, but you don’t want the social trappings that go along with people and the nature of our being. Seems to me that these people would be compared to the minority in society rather than the majority.

Maybe MMO gaming just isn’t for you, not that i condone hatred or gating, but if you can’t comprehend what i just said, CoD is that way ->

Heres the thing; what about those who work hard/want to work hard, but can’t be as successful? This is not real life, this is an MMO. We have the power to help those who want to do well in a video game. Why should we simply kick the nee guys down? Why should we assume that they just want the best stuff without working for it? The fact thar we have games like Gw2 where new players can join in with experts is great; the problem is when these elitists put others down because they aren’t on their level. There is nothing wrong with new/inexperienced players coming in and playing an MMO with others. They shouldn’t be stuck playing SP games. Here everyone can be equal, and we should strive to help others achieve that.

I don’t condone elitism and i myself never shun someone rather than helping them in GW2 (within reason). I think what i’m saying still has some validity and point to the topic at hand. It wasn’t meant to be a blanket assessment of all situations, just that i feel some forget the nature of people and the social aspect of MMO gaming. There is no doubt that elitism forms in all games like this, even if it takes a while to build. I think there are very hard lines on the topic though. There’s a lot people can do to prevent being subject to elitism and that is to conform in some small way.

What this really boils down to is a power struggle between the elitists and even-minded players, each wanting the other to conform and suit the others’ needs or wants in some avenue.

It just doesn’t work that way.

Like the main point i was trying to get across, in most cases, you either let yourself become a victim to elitism or you stay on the outer edges, conforming in some small way. Or you do a third option which is to become so consumed by the mental state of an elitist that you make the whole construct into a self-fulfilling prophecy of power struggle and avoidance of optimization and conformism. It’s just a mess to try and explain, but it makes sense in my head.

: P

Also, in a lot of cases, the elitists get frustrated by the (perceived) incompetence from the ones they harass. With that in mind, the mentality is to usually harshly dismiss the accused in an attempt to try and force the person into a rash, but effective realization which in turn fosters either the drive to succeed or in the case of a weaker mind, to complain on the internet. I think elitism in MMORPG actually forces many people to excel and those who complain are just that, complainers. It’s a psycho-social mechanic that has been around for a long time. In ancient Greek tragedies where satire was used to assert a countermeasure or to patronize an improper situation or behavior…basically i am asserting that in a small way, elitism actually forces players to become better.

I don’t consider myself an elitist player, but there are times when I want experienced players for something or I’m looking for a very specific setup. Most of the time, I actually enjoy taking the less-experienced through content and showing them some tips and tricks, and I can be quite patient. But other occasions I’m limited on time or I have something else planned that I want to get to, and I can get a little short-tempered if things aren’t going according to plan. I guess you have to take context into account when labeling “elitists”, because let’s face it: some players ARE better than others, and when you have time constraints to work with, you’re going to want to find those players to complete that content more quickly. Doesn’t necessarily mean that you look down on anyone who isn’t the best or question their intrinsic worth.

For example, the other day I was just trying to get a Frac10 daily so I could be done with it and run some dungeons with my guild. The first group I assembled off of gw2lfg.com, I just accepted invites as they came in and off we went. Sadly, no one seemed to know what they were doing, and when I tried to explain some tricks to make the fractal (dredge) easier, they were very rude. I wasted a lot of time trying to get the group to work, and then gave up. The next group, I made sure to add “Experienced players please” to the advertisement, as I was now down 20 minutes and really just wanted this out of the way so I could get on with my day. The next group failed out of swamp fractal because apparently, no one knew any of the paths. One guy couldn’t even be persuaded to wait for a countdown before just picking up his wisp and charging.

Strike two.

Little surprise then, that an hour after I started assembling a group for this daily, I found myself requiring people to ping an Ascended ring to join the group. People who didn’t, I kicked. This isn’t because I’m some kitten elitist, it’s because I had already failed out twice and wasted an hour of my day because no one knew what they were doing, and having a ring is a decent indication that you’ve done Fractals a few times. Another day, I might not have minded a slow fractal run with inexperienced players, but the circumstances were different, so my reaction to the situation was different. The next day, I didn’t have any time constraints, I hadn’t failed it twice already, so I didn’t require rings. Run went fine. It’s all a matter of context.

The elitism problem in GW2 is purely ncsofts fault by creating several paths and dungeons which are so pug unfriendly and require such a high degree of teamwork, it practically puts hardcore raids in WoW to shame.

Until ncsoft nerfs alot of the exp modes, we’ll just see more and more of the same.

Honestly, outside of Arah I haven’t seen any dungeon paths that are super difficult or require a high degree of teamwork. There’s a few tricks to learn, sure; but I think just about anyone can learn how to do the exp dungeons very easily with a patient group that will teach them.

TsukasaHiiragi.9730:

The elitism problem in GW2 is purely ncsofts fault by creating several paths and dungeons which are so pug unfriendly and require such a high degree of teamwork, it practically puts hardcore raids in WoW to shame.

Until ncsoft nerfs alot of the exp modes, we’ll just see more and more of the same.

i hope this is not a serious post, i laughed too hard.

TsukasaHiiragi.9730:

The elitism problem in GW2 is purely ncsofts fault by creating several paths and dungeons which are so pug unfriendly and require such a high degree of teamwork, it practically puts hardcore raids in WoW to shame.

Until ncsoft nerfs alot of the exp modes, we’ll just see more and more of the same.

This has to be either sarcasm or baiting.

As said above, the groups you want to avoid are the ones labeled ‘speed runs,’ ‘looking for pro,’ or ones that will only take a Warrior, Mesmer, or Guardian. I joined a PUG the other day with my Warrior and as soon as I joined they asked me to link my gear in chat. I just had a good laugh and left the group. My gear is more then good enough, I just thought that was the stupidest thing I have ever heard. Most groups I have joined though are pretty good and welcoming to anyone that wants to try. Heck I did a couple COF runs today with 2 Rangers which are supposed to ‘suck,’ but we did perfectly fine.

You only get this problem from people that want to do runs in 5 minutes or less. If you’re willing to be patient you don’t need 5 pros in all exotics.. not even close.

“noob”

A player that pretends to be incredibly experienced, often arrogantly spouting bad directions to other new or even experienced players, lies constantly about their ingame experiences and accomplishments, blames other for their inadequacy and quickly resorts to flaming. More often than not will claim to the “pro” and is the very first person in any given situation to wrongfully accuse others of being “noobs”

-Please for the love of bob, stop misusing the term “noob” and instead use the proper term “newb” or “newbie”

Body.7834:

Hey there!

I’ve stumbled across a thread in the forums of a quite popular MMO. The story you can read there is both heartbraking and encouraging, but also one that affects us all, even here in GW2. Because oneself was either the “noob” or the “pro”.

Applied to GW, there are several aspects that can be discussed.

• One might be: Would this poor old guy have the same problems in GW2 as in WoW? How much help would he get 1. from the game 2. from the players? In other words: How friendly is this game towards beginners?

• Another aspect might be, how far the “pros” can lift up as compared to the rest of the players. Means, how much more skill can one acquire in this game and is there a limit?

• Or you could also simply ask yourself: How many people have you helped and how many helped you?

etc.

My opinion:
Considering how young GW2 still is, I don’t think it would escalate that much as it happened to the guy (server-wide known “noob” and hated by many). However, you can see tendencies that this might become more real in the future. Not talking about that guys in front of a dungeon looking for “lvl 80 exotic only”, “ZERK WARRIORS ONLY” etc (although their number increases).

It is more about the prejudices people have against “randoms” and “PUGS”. Yes, prejudices. Of course you might get a group member who only trolls, insults and quits during a dungeon or whatever. But they are a minority. Report them.
Most people play MMOs like GW2 to have fun with others. They even paid money to do that Give them a chance, you won’t regret it.

On the other hand, ArenaNet might also consider improvements. Starting with a better introduction to the game itself (at least tell people to use /wiki because it is a great help) to a better “We achieved this goal together” feeling (defeating a dragon champion doesn’t feel like that at all). A group finder is fortunately to be expected in the near future.

There’s also a Reddit post with some quite good statements: http://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/186apk/with_all_the_80s_only_or_full_exo_set_only_being/

Thanks for reading

Tl;dr: Don’t see the noob, see the guy behind his monitor.

no elitism was GuildWars1 since in the game’s gameplay (oddly enough) was more deeper due to having aload more skills and ways to play. It lacked a dodge but really thats the only thing that seperated it if it had that then GW2 really wouldn’t be considered even ‘barly deep’.

And in Underworld people demanded to see how many of an item (forgot the name) you had to prove you knew how to play UW (you got this item by playing UW) Though at times the amount ranged into a few 100 which was insane.

Jezath.7395:

Speaking from my own experience on desolation EU ive not seen any elitism as such yet. Ive seen people asking for experienced oplayers only etc but i dont see that as elitism. i see the " you must have xxx and xxx to be in this run as elitism". this I havent seen.

Oh i mean there ares ome horrid people but there are also some really nice people so its all good atm

I’m on desolation and I seen quite a bit of this, A lot of ‘must be lvl 80, full exotic, specific professions’ etc. not to mention the speed runs and exploiters. Leaving any newcomer completely confused or worse kicked. We have a good community on Deso but this elitism is still very prevalent on our server.

Whats worse it rubs off on even the nicest of people, I have some guildies who think this is the norm. Who think this is okay to want to speed run dungeons.

Us veterans, It’s our responsibility to teach newcomers to enjoy dungeons to set a good example and positive teaching environment. Since the first two months that’s been blown out of the water. Not enough people help each other anymore.

I never see people ask for lower level/new people when looking for LFG I just see ‘lvl 80’s only’ or if they join they get kicked out. I’m one of the few I seen actually specifically ask for newcomers actually I can’t recall seeing anyone ask this to general strangers in map chat, only in my guild itself or friends.

Is it really so terrible to spend an hour or two every week taking newcomers to dungeons and teaching them the ropes? To take the time and not speedrun/exploit so they can slowly become familiar with the various tactics?

But of course most people now don’t know the tactics of most fights and mobs because they skip most of it. The amount of times I seen pugs die repeatedly on the easiest fights, people who proffess to have done the run hundreds of times, yet have no clue how to play all the fights efficiently.

I’m seriously concerned about the elitism in this game and also the lack of respect for the content provided. It’s all about money money money. I miss the time when people took the time to enjoy and learn the various encounters, spend hours in dungeon figuring it all out with breaks for food in between.

Forget that, if you don’t do cof 1 in 6 minutes with 3 warrior berserker, 2 mesmer group forget it. It’s really really sad to see.