Say I decide to fight creature A. Say I get unlucky and also aggro CreatureB. Say I decide to stay and fight anyway, and almost get CreatureA down. Say I pull back a little to my original position for tactical reasons.
Then this is what happens:
At 2% health, Creature A resets, runs back to its starting position and starts gaining health like there’s no tomorrow. Creature B on the other hand, continues to fight even though it’s much, much farther from it’s starting position than Creature A. Seeign as how they were both veterans, you now die because all YOUR healing skills are on cooldown.
This is what we call the “Throw-your-computer-out-of-the-window-in-frustration” move, and I would really like to see that it gets fixed. Because between the random resetting, the pointless invulnerabilities and the extremely high respawn rate, this is getting old.
Really old.
If you can read this then it is proof that ArenaNet’s moderators just, kind and fair.
Yep happens to me, barely ever on land though just underwater. I literally swim right up to their faces and start killing them, not moving an INCH and they go invulnerable at 5% HP and swim off.
Yeah I never understood this mechanic at all in any game.
If you find yourself in a tactical position, you should be able to lay waste to whatever you are attacking. If they can’t reach you or get to you, tough luck. It’s called playing smart. If anything, they should run for cover or try to avoid your attacks.
But instead you get this ridiculous invulnerability and instant heal enemy because you played smart. Basically being punished for smart thinking and using tactics.
I’m sorry but if I am up on a vantage point and shooting down at my enemy from a position where they can’t reach me, they shouldn’t magically become invulnerable and get all their health back instantly. It just doesn’t make any sense at all why games introduce this frustrating mechanic.
You don’t get this advantage in PvP if your enemy is shooting you from a point you can’t reach. So why do NPCs get this advantage?
A day without sunshine is like, you know, night.
Lady Bethany Of Noh – Chronomancer – Lords of Noh [LoN]
Yeah I never understood this mechanic at all in any game.
If you find yourself in a tactical position, you should be able to lay waste to whatever you are attacking. If they can’t reach you or get to you, tough luck. It’s called playing smart. If anything, they should run for cover or try to avoid your attacks.
But instead you get this ridiculous invulnerability and instant heal enemy because you played smart. Basically being punished for smart thinking and using tactics.
I’m sorry but if I am up on a vantage point and shooting down at my enemy from a position where they can’t reach me, they shouldn’t magically become invulnerable and get all their health back instantly. It just doesn’t make any sense at all why games introduce this frustrating mechanic.
You don’t get this advantage in PvP if your enemy is shooting you from a point you can’t reach. So why do NPCs get this advantage?
Saving real world resources by taking shortcuts in AI design.
I think this mechanic is a means to work around the limitations of the AI. I’m guessing (hoping?) the AI’s development was truncated by time constraints.
The mechanic is buggy. Even if it weren’t, it’d still be a poor substitute for a more sophisticated AI.
I’m willing to put up with it for the time being, but I think it ultimately needs to be tossed in favor of a better AI, which would negate the need for this mechanic.
Another “cheap” solution would be to just give every mob a range attack. I’d rather have a better AI, but I’d prefer the range attack workaround over what’s currently implemented.
No no no, we don’t need that. In this game you don’t have aggro skills, and if ranged mob choose to pursuit you, you CAN’T throw him off. Run as far as you can, or die, or kill him. So, no, no ranged mobs.
No no no, we don’t need that. In this game you don’t have aggro skills, and if ranged mob choose to pursuit you, you CAN’T throw him off. Run as far as you can, or die, or kill him. So, no, no ranged mobs.
There are many ranged mobs already. And all mobs are leashed.
Pathing mechanics for NPCs in GW2 do seem rather basic and wonky, especially underwater which seems plain bugged.
The invulnerability mechanic itself is to prevent fights from being reduced to “find a piece of terrain the mobs pathing algorithm doesn’t know how to reach and press auto-attack to win”. It’s a decent way to implement such protection, but too noticeable in GW2 because of the crappy pathing.
If you make mobs take cover or run out of range, you don’t solve the problem, because ranged characters can then yo-yo the mobs at range by stepping into/out of a bugged piece of terrain. Trivial fights again.
An alternative would be to lets mobs teleport on top of you whenever they can’t reach you. That’d be quite painful if you are trying to run away and jump up on a ledge. Honestly, making them turn invulnerable and leash isn’t that bad an option.
It’s especially bad with Thieves atm. Now when I stealth (as a form of preparing for a special attack) nothing walks back to their leash zone they teleport back instantly reseting. Yeah that’s not annoying or anything LOL
I just think that Anet needs to slow the respawn rate on enemies now that people are in the higher-level zones. I’m level 22(ish) and am forever getting jumped by enemies spawning on me.
I tried the fire imp / burning bush DE in the Sylvari worl last night – I would kill 5 of the 7 imps, and then they would always start respawning again. Took me 30 minutes by myself and still couldn’t do it.
You know, that may be the biggest problem with GW2 at the moment. Just lots of very annoying things happening.
The monster resets are a great example of this. All that work for nothing and that is how it feels to me, work rather than fun. Each reset elicits an “Oh no, not again…” You don’t reset, you don’t heal up but the monster is now at full health and you have a bar full of recharging skills and low health.
They need to bring back regen like in gw1. So even if they do lose aggro, they do not go invuln and do not get a crazy hp regen.
This is also felt in boss fights. The necro boss in CM reset close to 6 times while fighting him. Sometimes he would be near the waypoint, othertimes he was not ten steps from his spawn.
I agree that underwater “fights” are pathetic!! The shark attacks, takes damage, and turns away—————now it’s invulnerable and you ain’t!! When it recovers full health, it attacks again, takes damage, etc)——-All this time, YOU are getting hurt and NOT “recovering” (due to cool-down) so eventually, you die!! It’s even worse with A barracuda——because very shortly, you’re fighting 4 (or more) of the pests!!
Another issue is that underwater weapons are NOT geared for melee—-the preferred fighting style of all underwater denizens!! Tough to fight with a weapon whose barrel is longer than the foe!!
This is something that was not in GW and was implemented in GW2. I dont think the purpose was to make combat worse and clunkier, but that whats happened.
I suppose all we can do is be patient and await more fixes.. At least we know these things WILL be fixed and ARE being worked upon.. It just matter of when :S
Tis not what they can do for you
Tis only what you can do for all
The invulnerability mechanic itself is to prevent fights from being reduced to “find a piece of terrain the mobs pathing algorithm doesn’t know how to reach and press auto-attack to win”. It’s a decent way to implement such protection, but too noticeable in GW2 because of the crappy pathing.
There is no need for such “protection.” What exactly are you trying to protect mobs from? Dying? The point of a mob is to be bend over and be killed by a player. That is the very reason for its existance.
If a player wants to play smart by taking advantage of bad pathing AI then that is the player’s prerogative and what several of us would rightfully call playing smart. Playing stupid is putting yourself in harms way if you don’t have to, especially when these veteran and boss mobs have OP stats which make them unfair and taking advantage of the bad pathing is the only way to even things out for the player.
the reason for invuln i think is to stop people perching and power levelling that way.. Its been in mmo since its idea first began in EQ and AC.. People have mostly just copied this idea ibnto there own mmo with a few suibtle changes but basically the same... You see in those 2 games when it all started it turned to quite a huge problem..
Tis not what they can do for you
Tis only what you can do for all
I don’t like using the word, but this really breaks the immersion. It makes no sense to not be able to attack an enemy from, say, higher ground just because they can’t reach you. They should, for example, run off (like many enemies already do when their health is low) making the player either chase them or leave them.
While invulnerability makes no sense from a tactical perspective, it’s even worse in OP’s situation, which happens to me constantly as well. I have to stop attacking, let the foe regen while twiddling my thumbs, then let it charge at me, restart my attack chain, and hope that it doesn’t invuln again.
Just… what?
Unless it is a boss who drops really good stuffs, finding a strategical position to hit them while they can’t hit you is also part of the game strategies. I actually enjoyed this pretty much in many other MMOs. Well, in GW2, not even champion or veteran mob drops anything worthy now. Besides, they can hit you when you are in the surface while you have zero ability. They can knock you back down a cliff to cause you die instantly but we can’t. I enjoy doing this to mobs in SWTOR so much but in GW2 looks like we are the mobs. The game favors their mobs so much that I would say GW2 is a mob friendly MMO :P This makes killing mobs much more tedious. Now I just run past any mob unless I really need to kill them. Are they sure they want everyone to do this?
I wouldnt even mind so much if they ran away invun and stayed away the pain is the WWF tag team A get to 10% goes invun runs away regens then comes back at me while B keeps me pinned on the ropes
It does seem wonky. Odd I never really had this trouble in WoW even though they use a leesh system. Been awhile though.
In EQ they would have mobs teleport on top of you if they couldn’t reach you, but in EQ it was extremely hard to get mobs off you as their leesh was dependent of the player themselves. If you could put enough distance they would forget, but if you couldn’t outrun them they would follow forever.
I can see both sides really, but it is more apparent to the players that it just doesn’t feel “right”. The dev side is that they don’t want people dragging level 15 mobs into the level 2 area.
It does seem wonky. Odd I never really had this trouble in WoW even though they use a leesh system. Been awhile though.
In EQ they would have mobs teleport on top of you if they couldn’t reach you, but in EQ it was extremely hard to get mobs off you as their leesh was dependent of the player themselves. If you could put enough distance they would forget, but if you couldn’t outrun them they would follow forever.
I can see both sides really, but it is more apparent to the players that it just doesn’t feel “right”. The dev side is that they don’t want people dragging level 15 mobs into the level 2 area.
It’s not really about them sticking to a player – I think the distance/time that enemies chase for is pretty reasonable. It’s about them becoming invulnerable if you run a bit too far, or stand in the wrong , yet unobstructed, spot.
This is why I like Skyrim, no regen or invul. If you can hit it, it can die. I never liked regen health, I’d rather see potion spamming like Skyrim, Diablo etc. That way it’d feel like you need to stock up for a quest and if I ran out of potions I’d die.
I think most enemies should just all be given a heal skill that they use every 15-20 seconds or so, and can only regain health that way even if a player just runs off (then they could also use the healing in combat). They would incrementally heal themselves back to full hp over time.
Otherwise they need to put a timer on their hp reset; if a player leaves the combat, instead of the enemy reseting instantly, there would be a 30 second or so interval before they “reset” their hp and condition instantly.
… or even a combination of the two.
Also, Invulnerability is the bane of my longbows existence; please say they are fixing this…
While other people wax philosophic about vectors of progression, I just want stuff like this fixed. I got to 80 and got Exotics in every slot and I hardly broke my back farming away a big chunck of my life doing so. I’ll get Ascended gear too, someday I may get a legendary but I’m not banging my head on the wall to do it. It’ll happen. I’m not worried about that nor am I worried about having some group of players with stats on their gear that are double mine or more just dry humping me into the ground in WvW.
Just fix the blatantly obvious broken and bugged out stuff. Just do that first and foremost before you commence the Ascended gear rollout that is causing some portion of your players to literally lose their minds. A GREAT place to start would be this tragic joke and all the broken skills and miswritten, inaccurate, ambiguous, or just down right broken tooltips.
I think most enemies should just all be given a heal skill that they use every 15-20 seconds or so, and can only regain health that way even if a player just runs off (then they could also use the healing in combat). They would incrementally heal themselves back to full hp over time.
Indeed. The mob abilities in general seem shallow.
Rather than a heal or regeneration boon similar to our own (not that they help that much unless you keep circle strafing to avoid their forward arc the whole fight!) they get invulnerability and a rapid health recovery.
Last night, I was playing along and there was a Boss Risen Kappa monster to battle (supposed to be a group event, but I was the only one there). It was in the same area that the dragon Zormag (or whatever its name is). Anyway, I’m sitting there beating it down (and all the other things that keep respawning as I’m still fighting it), get it to a little over half dead, and the kitten thing runs back, and it’s healthbar just refills! I’m thinking, “WTF???” So, I continue to fight it (I’m thinking maybe it’s like the karkas), but no, the kitten thing does it AGAIN! SO, I left the kitten thing there to help kill the dragon.
You know, it’s frustrating enough to have to rekill the zombies (the kitten things die but mysteriously rise again!) but to have to GUESS as to whether or not I can kill a boss or I’m just wasting time is just ridiculous!!!
I switched away from D/D elementalist and went with just stand-n-deliver style, rather than dodge-roll and whatnot. It helped a lot to cut down on the invulnerables. I wish the game could handle a more active playstyle.
I only recently started having this issue. I noticed that it happens a lot more with lower FPS, it’s like the mob doesn’t recognize you are there, then it does again. I am wondering if the bug on this is more related to connectivity issues that everyone has been having the last few weeks, rather than preference of how to ‘contain’ mobs.
This seems to have grown worse as of late. At least 2-5 mobs I pull reset and go invulnerable even if I do not kite them far away from other mobs or at all.
Although this is a rather minor issue in the grand scheme of the game, it is unbelievably infuriating as I often waste valuable cooldowns (like heals) and then wind up dying moments later after the reset.
no one has mentioned the line of sight/obstructed, yet?
ele auto attacks in arah story (victory or death) in the tunnel with the red rings (before harpy boss). looking right at the turret to kill to advance, says OBSTRUCTED. seriously? i am looking right at it, even standing up to it in some cases..
as for the INVULNERABLE, it is very unimpressive when it happens. i have to switch targets for about 30 seconds before i can attack my original target, again. some skelk can teleport when they are in attack range, and do some damage before reappearing. that’s okay, but i cannot park my ranger up on a hill, for tactical advantage?? harpies fly up into the air to avoid attacks (well, more like disappear, because looking up, they disappear and reappear)
would break game if zhaitan went invulnerable because he was too far away.
It’s apparently how AreaNet handles gameplay design: Don’t make the game more challenging by requiring movement or creative use of game skills, just make the enemies tougher! Player figure out a way to get past that? Make them invincible!
Person with aggro gets knocked off, harpy still wants to attack said person who is now too far away, mob resets and waits for person to get back. Beyond annoying.
It’s aggro leashing, and it’s not an uncommon mechanic.
I do wish that the mob warned it was nearing the end of it’s leash several meters before it reached that point, though. It’d also be nice if the mob waited for 5-10 seconds once it reached the end of it’s rope before starting to regen its HP and going back to its original spawn point.
The aggro leash also activates if the mob has no pathing to get to your position. This can be quite annoying, and is often due to minor terrain bugs.
This problem is easily the most irritating bug-feature that continues day-in day-out everyday. Not only is it tedious dealing with the mobs, there is also the background knowing that this just ain’t right and why don’t they fix it. I would trade a lost shores or wintersday for it any day.
Interesting, how many single player RPGs have this mechanic? I am guessing none? So why does this game need one?
In single player RPGs there are always places you can hit a mob without it reaching you, kinda rarely but it happens. It hardly ruins the game experience and even makes you feel a bit awesome for using the terrain to your advantage.
I don’t think it is leashing, I usually get this underwater. I can swim up to the mob attack, not move at all and it is invulnerable. It does not move but resets health, then attacks me again. If I wait around through a few cycles I can usually kill it. If I am on my hunter my pet can keep damaging it while my attacks are not allowed. Again no line of site issues, not travelling back out of range just being invulnerable to attacks by me.
