Guild Wars 2

hydeaut.1758:

Chris Cleary.8017:

A fix is currently being prepared for this issue.

While the behavior (design) of this event was acceptable in the past, changes in the game over time have created an environment around this event that has become increasingly toxic (for the community) due to unintended use/change of mechanics.

Players should not feel that they are in the wrong for completing an event (or event chain), and that is what is happening with this event. The respawn timer for this event will be significantly increased.

Orr is a terrible endgame-zone, a big desert of a graveyard with awful atmosphere and stacked with highly annoying, fast respawning mobs and I hate it with passion since release (how great would an Ascalonian-zone have been instead, with large ruins of towns and castles and remainings of ancient battlefields?).

I would just like to point out that if Orr was actually stacked with fast respawning mobs there would be no need for any sort of “exploits”.

Orr can be a bit annoying but if you’ve ever try to farm just regular mobs you quickly find yourself running around/between mobs more often than you are actually killing things.

Duke Blackrose.4981:

Bloodstealer.5978:

This poster.. absolutely gets it..

When playing a game the way its intended causes the abuse of others who are hell bent on epxploiting it.. there is something very wrong and thankfully its being adjusted.

A Legendary is supposed to take a player a long time, it was supposed be the pinnacle in a players achievement and that is meant to take time, otherwise what is the carrot to keep us coming back. Ascended is the same thing albeit more of a halfway house to appease the players wanting gear/stat advancement and those wanting cosmetic advancement in both cases it is meant to take longer to get to.. otherwise lets just have a pay2win trading post where we can just purchase everything and anything and leave nothing in game to work towards… then we can sit back and read all the posts about the game is dead, this game lacks challenge, im bored la lal la…

GW2 was going to be different, a get away from extensive, endless gear grinds that would forever change and adjust to keep us all grinding just to stay competitive…
But if players can just simply exploit events and get all they desire in a few weeks every time something is introduced, then the game will have a short shelf life, aside from the fact players will have more coin in game than can be realistically synced back out of the game without drastically nerfing a lot of other things to balance before players simply have no need to buy gems for real cash.. how then does ANET bring real hard currency into the coffers to allow the game to grow, mature etc… it wont and then we will see it slide into maintenance mode and boredom will soon beset us all, farmers, TP flippers, exploiters, gear grinders, dungeon runners, WvW , PvP.. everything grinds to a halt cos the game isn’t making money to support growth.

I appreciate the support, though I would make an addendum.

Anet shot themselves in the foot with Ascended Gear by turning an optional grind into a stat grind. This raised the minimum cost to achieve max performance by about 10 times its original value. This, mind you, in a game that was intended to be a play-your-way horizontal progression title.

The stat-progression crowd should never have been appeased. They weren’t the market for the game and they are a crowd that tends to blow through content and demand more. There can be no compromise. Ascended Gear was not a compromise – it was a push towards vertical progression that cannot be taken back without extreme caution and which cannot appease the gear-grinders indefinitely – they will expect another tier or a raise in the level cap. Otherwise they are no longer progressing.

No, Guild Wars 2 should have kept to its banner. It had a loyal community and it had a unique foot in a market dominated by vertical titles. It had its recipe for success and needed to polish it.

The solution to player-split and farm-oriented play is map-exclusive aesthetics. If every map had them – like Dry Top does – the playerbase would spread out to obtain their desired rewards.

Again you make good points, though to be honest I think in any MMO there has to be some level of progression.. even cosmetics get stale after a while, but on the flip side to that.. how many skins does one want on any one toon.. I mean how many back pieces do we have etc, etc.. so at some stage ANET have to balance out progression, and satisfaction.
Of course the one thing many players forget is this is a game to us for fun, but to ANET/NCSoft its a business and it needs to find ways to make money in order to fill their own boots and put something back into game in order for it to grow… so some kind of progression of gear has to happen (not necessarily stats wise) to keep us in game with goals to achieve otherwise we get bored and move on very quickly.. but having these kind of exploits makes progression meaningless if it can be done in a matter of days/weeks.. as good as any design house feels they are, they will never be able to keep up developing the game if exploits cheapen the longevity of it every time they introduce new items, gearing, challenges etc….

But I guess the simple fact is there are always some that want the easy way to everything and want it with minimal effort and time.

Khisanth.2948:

hydeaut.1758:

Chris Cleary.8017:

A fix is currently being prepared for this issue.

While the behavior (design) of this event was acceptable in the past, changes in the game over time have created an environment around this event that has become increasingly toxic (for the community) due to unintended use/change of mechanics.

Players should not feel that they are in the wrong for completing an event (or event chain), and that is what is happening with this event. The respawn timer for this event will be significantly increased.

Orr is a terrible endgame-zone, a big desert of a graveyard with awful atmosphere and stacked with highly annoying, fast respawning mobs and I hate it with passion since release (how great would an Ascalonian-zone have been instead, with large ruins of towns and castles and remainings of ancient battlefields?).

I would just like to point out that if Orr was actually stacked with fast respawning mobs there would be no need for any sort of “exploits”.

Orr can be a bit annoying but if you’ve ever try to farm just regular mobs you quickly find yourself running around/between mobs more often than you are actually killing things.

Really!!… really!

Are you jesting, you must be jesting…. Orr is stacked full of champs on a never ending legitimate rotation, it has 2 temple event chains, it has small single event as well as multiple event chains including Blix, Plinx and Arah… it has a dungeon with a variety of paths to run and on top of all that it has ever spawning trash mobs for mats, it has T5, T6 nodes and a TP if you wanna play TP flipping from there.
What is missing that doesn’t spawn quick enough on rotation for you to do, I am curious????

Sariel V.7024:

Indeed. It’s a fine example of the entitled bullying detractors into submission. Kinda how like gangs try to silence onlookers when they’re busy committing crimes they believe they should get away with. “It ain’t your business,” is the usual refrain, and I’m sure these farmers would get violent with anyone disrupting their sure thing, if only they could.

tvtropes.org has a great page on troll logic. Somehow, the people who are exploiting this event are trying to paint themselves as the kittening heroes in this scenario, while anyone actually doing things as intended are idiots, evil, disruptors, the actual problem. Ah. Yeah. That works. Great job guys.

takes a drink

Half the people here make me sick.

Lol, no the people exploiting the event are not trying to paint themselves as heroes. That’s absurd hyperbole and I bet you know it is.

As someone who has participated in the Blix stuff (I’m not ashamed of it) I’m simply suggesting that people look at it from more than one viewpoint. I would never be one of those people who screams obscenities at someone who mucks up an exploit – that’s just not my style.

But I can’t deny it’s frustrating when people purposely muck it up (an honest mistake is a different story, but it’s hard to tell the difference) and as exploitative as the Blix stuff is, it is still an open-world event; it’s just failing one event to do another event, basically (and repeating that process).

Equating it to gangs and crime is absurd. Most people doing the event just want to have a good time and get some loot. And honestly, the repetitive event aspect of it isn’t even that fun to begin with.

I have seen exploits that must have a winner and loser (e.g. one party’s day is going to be ruined no matter what). But that doesn’t have to be the case here because of how maps work. Not that it matters at this point, considering that a fix is coming.

Bloodstealer.5978:

but having these kind of exploits

But I guess the simple fact is there are always some that want the easy way to everything and want it with minimal effort and time.

Still talking about "this kind of exploits while you used yourself one?

Bloodstealer.5978:

The Penitent/Blix/Shelter/Jofast chain has always been popular.. scaling those events to spawn champs has always been a good source of loot, without the incessant need to exploit it to fail/reset endlessly.

Dreamer.1952

To go the event pattern you mentioned all spots needs to be contested beforehand. Doesnt this show us that ppl intent to loose all the defence on that chain points to even get the chain? Example Blix is showing up after you loose shelter event.
Are you not beeing paradox. So you were using also an “exploit”?

Noone was talking at Lyssa Trait cap or Grenths Trait cap about exploits so why now?

While the trait cap was implemented you needed to kill Lyssa to get the trait. There you need to fail the defence of Lyssa to even gain the possibility of trait gain. Is that a exploit.
Ppl were trolling with lyssa defence. They just succeded it because its an open game and the designers wants us to defend.

I really dont get your point of exploits.
The only thing that bouthers me on Blix farm is that it took a range where alote of ppl are farming it. And that shows us a lack of FG like farm spots.

Edit:
Same problem was with Grenths. The Grenths defence didnt give the trait pre patch. Players needed to fail the event to gain the Trait. Now the trolling started till the patch came. Was the Grenths fail an exploit?

Lots of players with lots charakters didnt want to pay the 3g+ for the traits so they farmed the traits. And noone sad failing lyssa or grenths is a exploit.

Edited the Qutot display. Was not ok the way before

Vodyara.4608:

The ones crying about the Blix “exploit” are the arrogant rich players who want to keep their dominance. They have exploited enough previous events to last them for years, but god forbid the little man tries to come close.

Just pathetic nerds thinking purposely finishing the event, leaving over a hundred players waiting for another one, is somehow related to “justice”.

I must of missed the part where it said you have to be some rich kid to run the event properly… and I am certainly not rich in this game, but what is this dominance you speak of cos I really don’t see what dominance there is to be had .. ooh you mean I might look prettier than you in game, dang your right lets all exploit everything so you can look just as good as me.
Cmon surely you can try harder to justify the exploits with something other than that nonsense.

Let’s consider that, after two years, everything we do in game is about rewards. Can anyone genuinely say they “feel” anything when doing content in Cursed Shore? Are you running a Temple and actually thinking, “I’m saving Tyria!”? I highly doubt anyone even considers whatever the “meta story” was supposed to be. So let’s call it what it is, most players are there just to kill for rewards.

Killing for rewards can be a topic all it’s own. I’ve advocated for well over a year now that killing shouldn’t be so highly rewarding. It’s an entire topic that spans well beyond this thread. Though wanted to state that it’s an issue in design.

Wealth is designed in this game to be a competition. That is the driving force behind a lot of poor behavior. It’s especially true for those trolling. They wish to not only receive rewards but, to deny others as well. Beyond the simplistic notion that its for the twisted amusement of aggravating others. (sidenote: I put them in the same ilk as those whom DDoS’d the game last night.) This desire to obtain wealth and deny others is what creates toxicity. This was certainly true of the QD train. One that easily could have been remedied by simply increasing the Champs difficulty. Making them challenging to the point where it required social grouping and coordination. Which one would think, group play, should be the core theme in an open world MMO. So why couldn’t these professional developers figure out such a simple solution? Why leave a gaping hole for those playing socially?

The developers have been making some very odd design decisions that are either enabling or exacerbating toxicity. This year Leeching has become an issue with the LA events and Boss Blitz events. Instead of blaming the players, I think the developer’s need to step up their game, both figuratively and literally.

Vodyara.4608:

The ones crying about the Blix “exploit” are the arrogant rich players who want to keep their dominance. They have exploited enough previous events to last them for years, but god forbid the little man tries to come close.

Just pathetic nerds thinking purposely finishing the event, leaving over a hundred players waiting for another one, is somehow related to “justice”.

You’re completely wrong.

I`m not even close to be a rich player, but I hate this atmosphere farming brings about, and not just this stupid event, all of Orr. I can’t tell you how many time some mindless idiot has dragged a mob of 5+ enemies on me while gathering their precious resources.

Dreamer.1952:

Bloodstealer.5978:

but having these kind of exploits

But I guess the simple fact is there are always some that want the easy way to everything and want it with minimal effort and time.

Still talking about "this kind of exploits while you used yourself one?

Bloodstealer.5978:

The Penitent/Blix/Shelter/Jofast chain has always been popular.. scaling those events to spawn champs has always been a good source of loot, without the incessant need to exploit it to fail/reset endlessly.

Dreamer.1952

To go the event pattern you mentioned all spots needs to be contested beforehand. Doesnt this show us that ppl intent to loose all the defence on that chain points to even get the chain? Example Blix is showing up after you loose shelter event.
Are you not beeing paradox. So you were using also an “exploit”?

Noone was talking at Lyssa Trait cap or Grenths Trait cap about exploits so why now?

While the trait cap was implemented you needed to kill Lyssa to get the trait. There you need to fail the defence of Lyssa to even gain the possibility of trait gain. Is that a exploit.
Ppl were trolling with lyssa defence. They just succeded it because its an open game and the designers wants us to defend.

I really dont get your point of exploits.
The only thing that bouthers me on Blix farm is that it took a range where alote of ppl are farming it. And that shows us a lack of FG like farm spots.

Edit:
Same problem was with Grenths. The Grenths defence didnt give the trait pre patch. Players needed to fail the event to gain the Trait. Now the trolling started till the patch came. Was the Grenths fail an exploit?

Lots of players with lots charakters didnt want to pay the 3g+ for the traits so they farmed the traits. And noone sad failing lyssa or grenths is a exploit.

Edited the Qutot display. Was not ok the way before

What are you trying to imply???…. I have never once exploited .. scaling is a legitimate mechanic in the game.. its a counter to avoid events becoming a 1 hit, 5 second push over by a hundred players beating on a single mob or trash mobs.. farming mobs by scaling isn’t the exploit.. failing events to circumvent the natural progression of the event chain in order to endlessly reset it, most definitely is… otherwise why are ANET going to fix it, they could just say its fine, its working as intended so please carry on.
Scaling Grenth, Lyssa or any event is a by product of having allowance of large numbers hitting the same event.. so to counter it, it gets scaled and those events are rewarded by an end of event chain chest if I recall and they don’t get purposely failed in order to get rewarded.

When the trait system was changed and certain traits granted for failing events, I think if you look back I was one to voice concern over such a poor design choice.. no event should be purposely rewarded better for failing than to succeed.. that’s ANET’s issue internally imo.. and they addressed those events in due course.

However, the trait unlock events were intentionally designed by ANET to grant the trait on failure.. ludicrous yes but that was the intended requirement.. that then cannot be considered an exploit, but yes you are correct and the same toxicity (call it trolling if it makes you feel better) began to emerge from it because players wanted to run the event instead of failing.. both outcomes were actually correct.. fail for trait unlock, defend for successful completion of the event.. that’s the fault of ANET design but not an exploit because players once they had their unlocked traits only sought to complete the event and I am pretty sure sure that’s why they got patched not because it was deemed an exploit…..
Blix on the other hand is a completely different proposition.. there was nothing to achieve by failing except to endlessly reset the scaled champ farm in order to exploit it relentlessly for personal gain in gear, coin and mats… not a one off achievement or reward chest.

Now if your saying that players are purposely failing defence events like Arah etc for a reason.. then yes you could be right in considering that an intentional fail.. so report it up.

Its that simple, there is nothing complicated to understand unless you are not wanting to see the exploit closed, in which case nothing anyone says will agree with you.

Tman.6349:

Shivan.9438:

Tman.6349:

Sunshine.4680:

Dagraan.2854:

Behellagh.1468:

Dagraan.2854:

the farming community is actually pretty nice, its like a pool of gasoline running a machine.
but then the matches(anti farmers rich elites) come along and light the gasoline and guess what kitten explodes.

the toxic players aren’t the farmers who just want to make money and not have to be some TP warrior who drive the prices up of goods for their own gain so they don’t have to farm to pay for the increased prices of goods.
the toxic players are the ones preventing people from making money and having a good time.
what do you think happens when you stop a farm? people go do other events? no they sit around and wait or go find something else to farm.
ending farms just kill the map and bring it back it its regular dead self.

They don’t need to be rich.

no but who profits the most from stopping goods and gold from coming into the market and dragging the prices down?

TP flippers and people that know hidden farming spots always try to stop new farms from showing up.

Oh wow! A TP flippers conspiracy…how novel…

Apparently you don’t play MMO’s that much. In WoW, one guy was undercutting me in the Auction House on ore to the point that even if his ore sold, he was still below vendor price. You’d be surprised how far someone will go in order to keep a good farming spot hidden or to sell mats and not let people in on how good it is.

You must not play GW2 that much. If you’re selling on the TP for less than vendor value, then you’re lying because it doesn’t work that way at all. Also, TP flippers don’t work that way at all. Also, this farm isn’t a ‘secret’, obviously, because there is this thread here on the forums about it with a Dev’s response. Would you like to debate anymore silly anecdotes?

*I’ve played since the launch of GW1 BTW

Their example was for WoW, not Guild Wars 2. Just sayin’.

EDIT: Just realized I quoted something on page 2 and has probably long since been forgotten. What a morning I’m having.

On regards to the blix farming, I’m not really for or against it. If I’m participating, someone caps wants to cap it, I usually just say “If they want to cap it, let them, it’s only a game.” Sure they may be doing it to ruin the the event for all the people, or the genuinely don’t know what’s going on (People who have their chat off, and the such).

I’ve enjoyed the Blix event farming simply because I suck at making any sort of gold in this game. I can’t join dungeons because I get removed because I don’t know the paths, and everyone always tells me “Do dungeons, it’s the best” they just forget to add that I need to know every path completely because no one will bother explaining it to me.

Either way with it being patched I’ll dip back down into trying to get money again, but at least I made a decent bit of gold while this is active (Only 25g so far, but hey, that’s the fastest I’ve ever made gold).

So failing to get a reward from Lyssa is ok and “fail” Shelter to get reward is not ok?

For the Penitent/Blix/Shelter/Jofast chain, wich is ok for you, you still at least need to let fail shelter.

You are still talking paradox.
Edit:
And honestly most ppl dont care if you were one to voice concern over such a poor design choice.
Fact is bouths events rewards after fail and also your chain works also only after a fail.

catalystic.1074:

Vodyara.4608:

The ones crying about the Blix “exploit” are the arrogant rich players who want to keep their dominance. They have exploited enough previous events to last them for years, but god forbid the little man tries to come close.

Just pathetic nerds thinking purposely finishing the event, leaving over a hundred players waiting for another one, is somehow related to “justice”.

You’re completely wrong.

I`m not even close to be a rich player, but I hate this atmosphere farming brings about, and not just this stupid event, all of Orr. I can’t tell you how many time some mindless idiot has dragged a mob of 5+ enemies on me while gathering their precious resources.

Maybe an MMO is not for you. You seem to pretty much hate what this game was made for.

Traveller.7496:

The fact is that you guys at ANet still didn’t learn from your mistakes and made failing the event more worthwhile than completing it. Just fix the rewards for event completion instead of nerfing the event timer. Then we could all happily farm together without “toxic environment” or trolling event completion.

This is the same argument MMO players have used since time immemorial about class balance. Don’t nerf my class, buff the others.

Referring back to my ramblings in my last post, event completion rewards, like all rewards, inject new items and coin into the game world and to prevent massive inflation or deflation, depending on your point of view, it has to be limited.

The problem here is a confluence of game mechanics which on their own seem perfectly reasonable.

- Short cool down after failure.
- Scaling based on number of players at an event
- Low threshold to qualify for full loot drop from spawned mobs

Now if a group was doing the event in earnest and failed, it makes total sense to restart it quickly because who wants to wait around for 10-20 minutes.

The game has two/three types of scaling, push hit points of the boss through the roof so it takes roughly the same amount of time to defeat with 10 or 50 players participating. Or increase the number of lesser critters that spawn based on the number of players participating. This may also result in critter class promotion so instead of ton of regular you get a vet, elite or champ ones mixed in so it doesn’t take forever to finish.

Lastly the low threshold of damage done to receive the loot drop. Which means for normal critters one or two hits qualify you.

Individually none of these things are by themselves bad. But because of the large amount of loot you get doing this event due to scaling combined with the quick event respawn on failure, simply no success reward can ever hope to equal that. Especially when the value of drops is determined by the demand for and supply of the items that are dropped. If it dropped T6 dust or venom sacs we wouldn’t be discussing this. But T6 blood is over 60s each and T5 blood can still be MF into T6 blood for a profit because T6 dust is cheap, relatively.

So it’s not ANet intentionally designing an event where failure pays better. That is simply a side effect of the various game mechanics that work well everywhere else, pushed to the extreme combined with the now disproved notion that players would actually play to win.

So once the patch hits, all that the Blix exploiters have accomplished is to make failure on Blix annoying because of the cool down on failure for those trying to do the meta chain, making the game less friendly.

One Prarie Outpost.4860:

If players doing it wrong and exploiting the game is hampered or they are made unhappy by the actions of players playing the game correctly and not exploiting the game, then changing the game for the enjoyment of the players doing it wrong is not the way to correct this.

Not quite. Changing the game so that those players can enjoy the game without “doing it wrong” (so, derailing events) would be the way to correct this. And the toxicity could have been avoided if there were lot more “farming places” all over the game world. It is getting worse and worse because number of spots left for farmers is smaller and smaller every “fix”. And the griefers (because, you know, a number of those “correctly playing” people are griefers) keeps following farmers from spot to spot.

What is needed is places where those farmers can grind in peace, without disrupting the rest of community, but also without being disrupted themselves. Lot of those places, because we really don’t want all that crowd congregating in one spot – that’s what triggers the mob mentality and toxic behavious.

Vodyara.4608:

The ones crying about the Blix “exploit” are the arrogant rich players who want to keep their dominance. They have exploited enough previous events to last them for years, but god forbid the little man tries to come close.

Just pathetic nerds thinking purposely finishing the event, leaving over a hundred players waiting for another one, is somehow related to “justice”.

Ah yes, the old “it’s the Man/1%/TP flippers holding us working class folk down” conspiracy theory rant.

Behellagh.1468:

So once the patch hits, all that the Blix exploiters have accomplished is to make failure on Blix annoying because of the cool down on failure for those trying to do the meta chain, making the game less friendly.

And this is the point i try to show you.
To get the meta event you let the defence of Pen shelter and jofast fail. If you see the defence event would you go there and complete the defence with the knowledge that the fail of the event will give you the meta chain with more reward. Anet intended also the defence of this events to be succed.
So blix fail is exploit and the other fail to get the meta chain wich is not directly seen from other players is not fail?

Edit:
So the Commander wandering arround Cursed Shore is ignoring the defence of Pen/shelter/Jofast and then rushing to the meta chain is ok?

Deaths.9165:

They nerfed Queensdale and Frostgeorge to unplayable. What u guys expect. We stand still. We will just move on even if it is blix. And blix is not an exploit.

If A-Net nerfs everything farmable we will find ways to earn Gold.

Gems-Gold conversion is what I believe they’re pushing us toward. They remove farms, leave the loot table/reward dismal, and then introduce items that require a ton of the most expensive materials in the game.

To obtain the things you want, in a game focused on horizontal progression, you have to have gold, as the chance for said items to drop for you are so minimal that you’d be more likely to earn enough to buy them through farming for them, before they ever dropped for you.

I mean, working on a legendary, the argument exists that you’re more likely to – eventually – earn the gold to buy your precursor before it ever dropped for you. Want to use Mystic Forge? That requires a ton of gold as well.

Everything of value requires gold, or a few stacks of materials, and the only way to reliably get either is via farming. Or gems to gold. I believe this is their business model, as they seem very disinclined to implement meaningful rewards for “normal” gameplay.

kokiman.2364:

Wrong approach to the whole situation, imo. They should just ban the players who literally abuse failure states of events.

Or perhaps, just perhaps, they could revamp events so that they don’t give better reward for failure? and 40-50 players per MS map farming this banned? For taking advantage of their reward system design? Seems like a bad idea in killing a large part of your active playerbase.

Fact it, this isn’t the first farm, nor will it be the last. So long as the rewards are better for failure, and the loot tables are so skewed, people will keep farming. Not to mention the lack of reward for “normal” gameplay. It’s the only way to generate enough mats/gold to acquire the few valuable items in game.

Farmers aren’t the problem, they’re the symptom of a greater problem, that will not disappear by nerfing events. In the case that every event that can be farmed is nerfed? They’ll just leave the game, or resort to flipping on the TP (most will probably fail, as it requires some degree of experience and insight). Probably not good for a game reliant upon microtransactions to further alienate a significant amount of their playerbase.

Astralporing.1957:

One Prarie Outpost.4860:

If players doing it wrong and exploiting the game is hampered or they are made unhappy by the actions of players playing the game correctly and not exploiting the game, then changing the game for the enjoyment of the players doing it wrong is not the way to correct this.

Not quite. Changing the game so that those players can enjoy the game without “doing it wrong” (so, derailing events) would be the way to correct this. And the toxicity could have been avoided if there were lot more “farming places” all over the game world. It is getting worse and worse because number of spots left for farmers is smaller and smaller every “fix”. And the griefers (because, you know, a number of those “correctly playing” people are griefers) keeps following farmers from spot to spot.

What is needed is places where those farmers can grind in peace, without disrupting the rest of community, but also without being disrupted themselves. Lot of those places, because we really don’t want all that crowd congregating in one spot – that’s what triggers the mob mentality and toxic behavious.

I love this idea! Let the “trolls” and “white knights” congregate into their areas so they can “complete” their desired events. Give the farmers their own areas so they can farm in peace. Then the “trolls” and “white knights” can be toxic to each other and the farmers can work in harmony towards their desired goals.

Cheers!

lol at all these mad exploiters who cant get easy rewards anymore.

SolviteSekai.9816:

lol at all these mad exploiters who cant get easy rewards anymore.

Exploit? Lol, apparently you have not stepped into WvW. You’ll see far worse “exploits” utilized.

More like all these complainers are the same people that wanted to nerf champ trains for personal gains (yet they speak of rotating champs in orr — hypocritical much?).

Not worth reasoning with trolls. Their goals are to disrupt the community for attention.

I dont care what other exploits there are.

This is an exploit. Stop trying to justify your behavior and work for your rewards like an honest player.

islarose.7356:

I mean, working on a legendary, the argument exists that you’re more likely to – eventually – earn the gold to buy your precursor

Not exactly, you have to earn enough gold to keep up with inflation. Many of the higher sought after items have doubled in price the past year. Say for the “The Legend”, you’d have to make 700 gold over the past year just to give to inflation. You’d still be the same value away from being able to purchase it you were a year ago. 700 gold for a casual player is substantial.

Bloodstealer.5978:

You’re [edit] wrong.. the only reason players began to form up and try to stop the event being farmed was because when they tried legitimately run the event chain previously they were abused by the #bandofexploitbrothers.

Change servers sound great.. except within a few days every map copy you could get into was doing the same thing…

It takes an action to cause a reaction… blix farmers began purposely harassing players that did not want to conform to there exploitation of the shelter event and as always happens that kind of abuse causes the reaction and yeah, players get fed up of being called a noob, a c*** etc etc and began to learn how to use the failtrains own tactics of scaling the event to spawn champs.. by simply aggroing the mobs onto it whilst ressing the NPC’s to almost full health and waiting for their time to fully res them.

Curse Shore became vacant across most parts of the map since Blix became so overly exploitable by the hoards and the LFG system utilised to spread the exploit virally across the player base..

I for one am glad ANET have at least looked into putting an end to it… hopefully the worst offenders of this exploitation will see actions taken on their accounts, but I doubt that is going to happen, which just says its fine to exploit for as long as you can until a patch comes.. that’s not a deterrent merely a mini game of chase.

Cursed shore was dead prior to this farm and the foxfire cluster farmers. Megaservers killed the temple events, there were other champ trains that were more convenient elsewhere. In other words, it was a ghost town before recent events. Prior to this farm, I’d rarely seen anyone at the Blix event (with exception to when the defend event was a major farm) – moreover if the constant “in combat” WP status is anything to go by. It was not the Blix farm that made the map a ghost town. Even in the beginning (first 6 mos) I used to farm for ori and ancient wood, and I rarely saw other players – aside from temple events and other material farmers. Now people are occasionally champ training through Orr, but it’s still not even close to the scale of FGS or QD.

And no, people didn’t form up to ruin the event because they were against the farmers, they did it because they had fun getting a rise out of thwarting a group trying to accomplish something. Probably for the same reason the farmers were there in the first place; because what else are they going to do?

It was the same with QD, people intentionally ruined what others were working toward, because they’re trolls. I just find it amusing that people are complaining about one event on a map of several, as if they would have done it if the train wasn’t there.

It honestly does not matter if this gets nerfed to lack rewards like other events. There are more out there. If you really want farms like this to stop? You should probably support the idea that they’re a significant consequence of this game’s reward structure.

- Events are more rewarding if failed.
- Nerfs to champ bags mean people will farm more.
- Low drop rates for desired items mean people will farm more.
- Low rewards in general mean people will farm more.
- Items of value require incessant grinding? People will farm more.
- What does acquiring significant amounts of gold require? Farming or really good RNG luck.

Don’t like farming? You probably don’t like TP flippers manipulating markets either. So perhaps you should jump on the “fix the reward system” bandwagon, rather than railing against those that are trying to work with what is available. If you just enjoy kittening off a group of players, keep trolling, I guess. There will always be those who don’t adhere to “don’t feed the troll” practices. But it’s at your own material loss. There will always be another farm, until there isn’t, in which case those people will likely stop bothering to play.

Getting banned because Anet made failures more rewarding than successes, and doesn’t properly reward normal gameplay? Fine. Alienate those zergs of players across various servers. It’s not like there aren’t more games out there that make gameplay feel rewarding. They may not be as pretty, but at least your time is worth something.

DeWolfe.2174:

islarose.7356:

I mean, working on a legendary, the argument exists that you’re more likely to – eventually – earn the gold to buy your precursor

Not exactly, you have to earn enough gold to keep up with inflation. Many of the higher sought after items have doubled in price the past year. Say for the “The Legend”, you’d have to make 700 gold over the past year just to give to inflation. You’d still be the same value away from being able to purchase it you were a year ago. 700 gold for a casual player is substantial.

Oh, no doubt. 100 gold for a casual is pretty substantial. The inflation is likely due, in part, to the nerf to rewards. The price keeps rising, and thus people keep farming. Even still, with inflation, you’re more likely to eventually get the gold for it, through constant farming, than actually having the item – or any precursor really – drop for you.

Thanks for the planned fix for this disgusting exploit.

SolviteSekai.9816:

I dont care what other exploits there are.

This is an exploit. Stop trying to justify your behavior and work for your rewards like an honest player.

What is dishonest about it? There are two outcomes, one rewards better than the other. So players are choosing the one with greater reward. Which is a very sound and logical decision. No one is hiding or denying it. In fact, players are welcoming and inviting others to join in and share in the rewards. There is no dishonesty there.

DeWolfe.2174:

SolviteSekai.9816:

I dont care what other exploits there are.

This is an exploit. Stop trying to justify your behavior and work for your rewards like an honest player.

What is dishonest about it? There are two outcomes, one rewards better than the other. So players are choosing the one with greater reward. Which is a very sound and logical decision. No one is hiding or denying it. In fact, players are welcoming and inviting others to join in and share in the rewards. There is no dishonesty there.

Lol. And yet here you have 6 pages of people whining and begging Arenanet to leave the exploit in because its “too hard” to get gold without it.

Tough Luck guys. Guess youll have to play the game.

You know what…I logged in again to play a little…cursed shore for some difficult stuff.(if you want to call it that). Happened upon the blix zerg. Guess what happened? I got yelled at for killing mobs and trying to complete the event. They called me the troll and that I was ruining it for everyone else.

I told them to go kitten themselves. Sure I could have gone to another event. But I was there already, why should I have to move because these kittens want to glitch it out or whatever? They kittened and moaned about not getting as much money. I dont care. I logged in to play a game and have fun, not to earn digi coin. So I logged off.

Only in guild wars2 can you be called a troll for playing the game properly. This is what it has come to. I am very near to deleting the game off of my hard drive because to me, this sort of crap is broken. And its not entirely the game’s fault either. Its all of you that lose your kittening minds when you don’t get your digital coin. Call me a bundle of negativity when it comes to criticizing the game that I once passionately enjoyed. But Im not the one that enjoys exploits. That sort of community mentality is toxic.

Is it possible to fail an event in this game? Does that ‘state’ exist? Yes? Okay, then it’s not cheating. It’s not ‘exploiting’ to play a game AS IT WAS DESIGNED. Did they intend for people to spawn tons of champs? If not, why do events scale to this level? They need them to, in order to be challenging for large groups. So then when large groups do it, people moan and complain.

It’s likely the same people who consider stacking in dungeons to be an ‘exploit’. Just as an FYI, you stacked in GW1 as well. FGS 4 is an ‘exploit’. Running past mobs in dungeons even though Anet themselves have said they practically expected it is an ‘exploit’. Hell, anything that makes you gold is an ‘exploit’.

If you can’t play 10 hours a day like some people (I can’t), then you don’t deserve what they have. I’m sorry but that’s the way it is. ‘Play How You Want’ doesn’t mean ‘Everyone Gets The Same Thing Regardless of Effort Spent’. I don’t mind people saying it’s broken and needs to be fixed, but the attempt to shame, the attempt to blatantly grief players who are playing the game AS IT WAS DESIGNED BY ANET THEMSELVES AND THROUGH NO MODIFICATION OF THEIR OWN is flat out ignorant. The players aren’t the ones who are wrong here; Anet are. They made it.

No actually people did this same stuff in FFXIV.

Square Enix fixed the event, everyone cried for a week and then moved on.

No subscribers were lost. In fact FFXIV is doing great.

This giant rant thread is filled with:

1. But theres other exploits so its ok!

2. We didnt do anything wrong! Its the other peoples fault!

3. I’m poor why can’t I get easy money?

4. Someone got cool stuff in the gem store! Why cant I afford gems?

And so on.

Kysin.6349:

islarose.7356:

Kysin.6349:

And it turned out (most times, not every time) that the guys just didn’t know how the farm worked.

I’ll be glad to see it go personally.

Every run I’ve done has a few people giving direction, explaining how it works, and why it’s beneficial to let the event fail. It’s simple: 1. Stack on Blix, spawn champs through scaling. 2. Stay in tunnel, use reflects. 3. Keep elites alive, never let the circle go empty, focus champs. Kill mobs when they reach the group.

Pretty easy.

I’m sure you were also glad to see the other trains go, and every other means of earning gold aside from TP flipping, farming the same dungeons on repeat 2 years in, and the world boss circuit.

#BuyGems!

Tinfoil hat ftw, no I was sad to see the ember farm go (but I understood it needed to). It was way less toxic and about 5x more rewarding, it also changed the economy way more than blix farm. I was also bummed when they extended the timer for plinx/shelt/penit. Why don’t you start “TP flipping” since you seem to know much more about it than everyone else, haha.

Ha, oh I didn’t say I knew more about it. I’ve read “the guides” and followed market trackers, but I suck at flipping, plain and simple, because I am terrible at identifying niche markets, I don’t like risking a ton of gold, and I am not fond of my gameplay consisting of sitting at the TP in LA while alt-tabbing to GW2Spidy. Most of my gold was gained through speculation, but alas, that tapers off between major updates. I enjoy farms because I like running with groups of people, and I’m a bit burnt out on everything else (dungeons, WvW, EOTM – fractals lack payoff). I mean, I don’t want a legendary, I have a comfortable amount of gold, and I don’t want any other items in game (my mains have their ascended sets).. so other than not logging in (which has been my MO lately) silly little farms like this give me something to do, and I get to joke around and have a good time with other players.

Also, it would be tinfoil if I accused some grand conspiracy, or some theorized but ill supported claim. Not, by identifying the major means of earning gold in game. I come from r/asoiaf, my Reynold’s Wrap is strong.

Toxic like sky hammer pirates of tyria lol

islarose.7356:

Kysin.6349:

islarose.7356:

Kysin.6349:

And it turned out (most times, not every time) that the guys just didn’t know how the farm worked.

I’ll be glad to see it go personally.

Every run I’ve done has a few people giving direction, explaining how it works, and why it’s beneficial to let the event fail. It’s simple: 1. Stack on Blix, spawn champs through scaling. 2. Stay in tunnel, use reflects. 3. Keep elites alive, never let the circle go empty, focus champs. Kill mobs when they reach the group.

Pretty easy.

I’m sure you were also glad to see the other trains go, and every other means of earning gold aside from TP flipping, farming the same dungeons on repeat 2 years in, and the world boss circuit.

#BuyGems!

Tinfoil hat ftw, no I was sad to see the ember farm go (but I understood it needed to). It was way less toxic and about 5x more rewarding, it also changed the economy way more than blix farm. I was also bummed when they extended the timer for plinx/shelt/penit. Why don’t you start “TP flipping” since you seem to know much more about it than everyone else, haha.

Ha, oh I didn’t say I knew more about it. I’ve read “the guides” and followed market trackers, but I suck at flipping, plain and simple, because I am terrible at identifying niche markets, I don’t like risking a ton of gold, and I am not fond of my gameplay consisting of sitting at the TP in LA while alt-tabbing to GW2Spidy. Most of my gold was gained through speculation, but alas, that tapers off between major updates. I enjoy farms because I like running with groups of people, and I’m a bit burnt out on everything else (dungeons, WvW, EOTM – fractals lack payoff). I mean, I don’t want a legendary, I have a comfortable amount of gold, and I don’t want any other items in game (my mains have their ascended sets).. so other than not logging in (which has been my MO lately) silly little farms like this give me something to do, and I get to joke around and have a good time with other players.

Also, it would be tinfoil if I accused some grand conspiracy, or some theorized but ill supported claim. Not, by identifying the major means of earning gold in game. I come from r/asoiaf, my Reynold’s Wrap is strong.

If the game is no longer fun for you, try something else for a bit.

This game has no subscription.

Don’t support crappy farming mechanics just so you can get things the easy way before you inevitably leave anyway.

Let’s try this:

1) Intentionally causing events to fail so that you can farm drops IS an exploit of the game mechanics. I don’t care how justified you think it is (drops are so crappy, rewards are so lackluster, etc), playing the game with the expressed intention of failing because you know a follow up is quickly coming IS exploitative.

2) Players who intentionally seek to complete the event for the sole purpose of breaking the chain ARE griefing by the spirit of the term. However, the people from Group 1 aren’t going to get terribly much sympathy from Arena.net because at least Group 2 is proceeding as the game is intended. Reporting Group 2 for griefing will fall on deaf ears, and it should.

3) People who proceed to play this game the way it was supposed to be because (gasp) they want to play through the meta chain of events. Yes, they do exist!

Both groups 1 and 2 are pretty kittenish. The Blix exploiters, just like the ember farmers before them, do not have the high ground in terms of despicable behavior when they didn’t get their way.

And no, it’s not as simple as “farming areas” and “non farming areas”, because Arena.net has repeatedly demonstrated they do not support “farming” in the sense that MMO players have embraced.

SolviteSekai.9816:

No actually people did this same stuff in FFXIV.

Square Enix fixed the event, everyone cried for a week and then moved on.

No subscribers were lost. In fact FFXIV is doing great.

This giant rant thread is filled with:

1. But theres other exploits so its ok!

2. We didnt do anything wrong! Its the other peoples fault!

3. I’m poor why can’t I get easy money?

4. Someone got cool stuff in the gem store! Why cant I afford gems?

And so on.

5. But we’re not hurting anyone!

6. We’re helping the economy!

Those are what I have seen.

Chris Cleary.8017:

A fix is currently being prepared for this issue.

While the behavior (design) of this event was acceptable in the past, changes in the game over time have created an environment around this event that has become increasingly toxic (for the community) due to unintended use/change of mechanics.

Players should not feel that they are in the wrong for completing an event (or event chain), and that is what is happening with this event. The respawn timer for this event will be significantly increased.

Why hasn’t this been hotfixed yet? What the hell? Why do you always take so long to do anything to this game?
Hide more programmers, rise paychecks, improve your motivational timebreaks, renew your marketing department or shave off their management power, resechedule, improve, modify your priority lists, relocate manpower away from the living story team, motive/hire better testers… whatever, anything.
In all honesty, leaving almost every change to a “feature” pack (by it being every 6 moths it doesn’t bring much) is the wrong approximation.

Khenzy.9348:

Chris Cleary.8017:

A fix is currently being prepared for this issue.

While the behavior (design) of this event was acceptable in the past, changes in the game over time have created an environment around this event that has become increasingly toxic (for the community) due to unintended use/change of mechanics.

Players should not feel that they are in the wrong for completing an event (or event chain), and that is what is happening with this event. The respawn timer for this event will be significantly increased.

Why hasn’t this been hotfixed yet? What the hell? Why do you always take so long to do anything to this game?
Hide more programmers, rise paychecks, improve your motivational timebreaks, renew your marketing department or shave off their management power, resechedule, improve, modify your priority lists, relocate manpower away from the living story team, motive/hire better testers… whatever, anything.
In all honesty, leaving almost every change to a “feature” pack (by it being every 6 moths it doesn’t bring much) is the wrong approximation.

Doesnt help that theyve been fighting ddos attacks for 2 days.

Well I think Chris wins the day for putting things into perspective.

Chris Cleary.8017:

There are really two sides to this, and when it comes down to it, you are both right – and you are both wrong. Both sides have the right to complete the task that they set out to do (completing or not completing).

Challenging another player’s play style is the issue here, and since this revolved around an event that was designed to be completed, it is being changed so that the original design of the event can be carried out.

When something in the game (such as this event) changes negatively as this has, we need to step in and remediate the toxicity. The byproduct of this change happens to be that a champion farm is being slowed, but since that was the originating factor for the toxicity, it’s unavoidable.

I encourage players to remember that not everyone has the same goals when they play, and sometimes they will clash.

While you are here, you should address the sweeping changes you have made moving the game toward a gold treadmill.

Why is everything being designed in such a way that it highly encourages buying gems and swapping them for gold?

Maybe if you answered that, less people would accuse you of kitten the Pay 2 Win stuff out to people.

Hi, Chris
What will happen with this situation?

Make the game more rewarding and people will seek such farm spots less and less because they will be happy of what they are earning. If hundreds of people flock to farm such events then that should tell you something about the earning state of guild wars 2 players. I don’t think most of the people farm an event like that because they like it- It’s probably extremely boring but they get some results from all that farming that doesn’t even get close to the one gold coin you can get per dungeon run. Not everyone is TP expert and can turn the silver into gold. And don’t get me started on the Fractals….
This game was supposed to be for casuals but people that play casually and still want to have something to show are sadly mistaken. With the rate of prices going up, farming spots going down, what can a casual do other than leave and find a game that actually gives you something in return for the effort spent?

Chris Cleary.8017:

There are really two sides to this, and when it comes down to it, you are both right – and you are both wrong. Both sides have the right to complete the task that they set out to do (completing or not completing).

Challenging another player’s play style is the issue here, and since this revolved around an event that was designed to be completed, it is being changed so that the original design of the event can be carried out.

When something in the game (such as this event) changes negatively as this has, we need to step in and remediate the toxicity. The byproduct of this change happens to be that a champion farm is being slowed, but since that was the originating factor for the toxicity, it’s unavoidable.

I encourage players to remember that not everyone has the same goals when they play, and sometimes they will clash.

This is a really good answer. The best possible answer, in fact. The fact that you acknowledge not completing an event can be a legitimate goal blows my mind. Props to you, dear sir.

Behellagh.1468:

Relshdan.6854:

Stampede.5308:

Better be careful with this fixes. Anet continuosly nerf drop, nerf rewards, nerf loot… We are earning every day less money/drops than the previous and the prices continue to rise.
1g = 5 gems (WTF, a year ago 1g = 100 gems)
But this is the gemstore, i can stand it
62s = 1 powerful vial of blood (5 months ago 28s = 1 powerful vial of blood)
1300g Spark (march 2014 525g = spark. April 2014 715g = spark)

The prices are rising of more than 100% and the loot and rewards are getting worse and worse.
The ridicolous thing is that fail events and repeat them is more rewarding that succed in them.

agree….most events simply aren’t worth doing from a gold-time efficiency standpoint.
outside of a large group doing dwayna and melandru chains, or small group doing the Frostgorge champ train, there aren’t really any events more rewarding than just killing mobs and mining nodes.

events really shouldn’t be more rewarding to fail than win….i’m just not sure how to fix this outside of more high-level “defend an area events” that spawn champs and/or tons of loot-dropping mobs. that way, increasing the respawn of failing events doesn’t kill the farmer….they just move on to the next “rewarding” event.

What are we? Efficiency experts or heroes?

once you do an event a few times, the fun/novelty wares out…even with very fun events with different mechanics, you eventually learn them.

so once its no longer fun/challenging, why play the event?……profit….which is how we earn the only end-game rewards (aesthetics).

Relshdan.6854:

Behellagh.1468:

Relshdan.6854:

Stampede.5308:

Better be careful with this fixes. Anet continuosly nerf drop, nerf rewards, nerf loot… We are earning every day less money/drops than the previous and the prices continue to rise.
1g = 5 gems (WTF, a year ago 1g = 100 gems)
But this is the gemstore, i can stand it
62s = 1 powerful vial of blood (5 months ago 28s = 1 powerful vial of blood)
1300g Spark (march 2014 525g = spark. April 2014 715g = spark)

The prices are rising of more than 100% and the loot and rewards are getting worse and worse.
The ridicolous thing is that fail events and repeat them is more rewarding that succed in them.

agree….most events simply aren’t worth doing from a gold-time efficiency standpoint.
outside of a large group doing dwayna and melandru chains, or small group doing the Frostgorge champ train, there aren’t really any events more rewarding than just killing mobs and mining nodes.

events really shouldn’t be more rewarding to fail than win….i’m just not sure how to fix this outside of more high-level “defend an area events” that spawn champs and/or tons of loot-dropping mobs. that way, increasing the respawn of failing events doesn’t kill the farmer….they just move on to the next “rewarding” event.

What are we? Efficiency experts or heroes?

once you do an event a few times, the fun/novelty wares out…even with very fun events with different mechanics, you eventually learn them.

so once its no longer fun/challenging, why play the event?……profit….which is how we earn the only end-game rewards (aesthetics).

If you are so bored that you have to exploit, its time to take a break.

Cutting corners will only tire you out faster, and we’d rather not suffer for your laziness and boredom.

Chris Cleary.8017:

I encourage players to remember that not everyone has the same goals when they play, and sometimes they will clash.

I agree that the change was needed from the toxicity angle. Just as it was needed for the Queensdale champ train.

But perhaps could have a wider discussion on game design and rewards. There’s a reason people want to farm these things: it’s because the rewards for most game activities are really weak, or at least feel really weak.

There’s little point slogging through the harder dungeon paths or high level fractals when you come out with blues, greens, and maybe a rare. There’s not much point doing most of the events when all you get is a couple hundred karma points. I don’t feel like doing those things advances my character, or gets me closer to any goals I have.

Tamasan.6457:

Chris Cleary.8017:

I encourage players to remember that not everyone has the same goals when they play, and sometimes they will clash.

I agree that the change was needed from the toxicity angle. Just as it was needed for the Queensdale champ train.

But perhaps could have a wider discussion on game design and rewards. There’s a reason people want to farm these things: it’s because the rewards for most game activities are really weak, or at least feel really weak.

There’s little point slogging through the harder dungeon paths or high level fractals when you come out with blues, greens, and maybe a rare. There’s not much point doing most of the events when all you get is a couple hundred karma points. I don’t feel like doing those things advances my character, or gets me closer to any goals I have.

A discussion. Lol. Guess he should call you on Skype and let you know what happened in todays board meeting.

BTW, the problem is that your goals are unrealistic for the game that Arenanet is trying to provide.

People want Legendaries. See my post in the other thread.

If everyone has legendaries, then legendaries become exotics, and we need a new tier. Thats vertical progression.

This is a terrible answer and I dont buy it. If they had just come out and said this was an unintended mistake I dont think anyone would have a problem. We know y they really fixed it b.c. it was a way to make lots of gold without buying gems. The market in this game is so messed up and by doing this they have shown that they do not care about the community or fixing the real issues. I completely agree that they r pushing ppl to buy gems to play the game. And I think we, the gw2 players need to show them we do not support the way they handling the game

SolviteSekai.9816:

Relshdan.6854:

Behellagh.1468:

Relshdan.6854:

Stampede.5308:

Better be careful with this fixes. Anet continuosly nerf drop, nerf rewards, nerf loot… We are earning every day less money/drops than the previous and the prices continue to rise.
1g = 5 gems (WTF, a year ago 1g = 100 gems)
But this is the gemstore, i can stand it
62s = 1 powerful vial of blood (5 months ago 28s = 1 powerful vial of blood)
1300g Spark (march 2014 525g = spark. April 2014 715g = spark)

The prices are rising of more than 100% and the loot and rewards are getting worse and worse.
The ridicolous thing is that fail events and repeat them is more rewarding that succed in them.

agree….most events simply aren’t worth doing from a gold-time efficiency standpoint.
outside of a large group doing dwayna and melandru chains, or small group doing the Frostgorge champ train, there aren’t really any events more rewarding than just killing mobs and mining nodes.

events really shouldn’t be more rewarding to fail than win….i’m just not sure how to fix this outside of more high-level “defend an area events” that spawn champs and/or tons of loot-dropping mobs. that way, increasing the respawn of failing events doesn’t kill the farmer….they just move on to the next “rewarding” event.

What are we? Efficiency experts or heroes?

once you do an event a few times, the fun/novelty wares out…even with very fun events with different mechanics, you eventually learn them.

so once its no longer fun/challenging, why play the event?……profit….which is how we earn the only end-game rewards (aesthetics).

If you are so bored that you have to exploit, its time to take a break.

Cutting corners will only tire you out faster, and we’d rather not suffer for your laziness and boredom.

Yes, I see you don’t cut corners with handing out name calling and vitriol. Good on ya.