Guild Wars 2

Just finished FOTM scale 44.
Almost 2 hours.

Swampland, Cliffside, Dredge, Captain Mai.
Around 6 rares, which I salvaged and got 1 Ecto.
Around 3 Gold money.
No Ascended ring. no Tier 6 mats.

I could do full CoE run and AC P1 and P2 in 2 hours earning x3+ times the money.

What where they thinking?

Welcome to guild wars 2 #asia china grind edition.

Seriously if you play lvl 44 I think your not new to gw2 so you know the broken rng system in this game so why complain?

Nick.6972:

Just finished FOTM scale 44.
Almost 2 hours.

Did you have fun?

I’m willing to bet that I could get more money spamming auto attack on that new invasion thing.

It’s just absurd. They don’t reward difficult content properly.
Leave the RNG if people really want it, but at least increase the guaranteed rewards.

the content that actually challenges you and puts your skill into test is not very rewarding (PvP, fractals, etc…) yet the mindless content designed only to keep you playing the game endlessly like a drone is the most rewarding (dungeons, LS)

Eh, rub some bacon on it and you’ll be fine

You have done Fractals all the way up to level 44 and you decide to write a forum post about the rewards now?

Farzo.8410:

You have done Fractals all the way up to level 44 and you decide to write a forum post about the rewards now?

More like “again,” this particular horse is dug up and re-beaten on a regular basis.

Pie Flavor.1647:

the content that actually challenges you and puts your skill into test is not very rewarding (PvP, fractals, etc…) yet the mindless content designed only to keep you playing the game endlessly like a drone is the most rewarding (dungeons, LS)

Challenge is “supposed” to be its own reward. The “mindless” content needs rewards to make it worth doing — or so many players would have us believe.

seems logical to me.

GrandmaFunk.3052:

Nick.6972:

Just finished FOTM scale 44.
Almost 2 hours.

Did you have fun?

There is NOTHING fun about Dredge, not a single thing. Of course you don’t know you are going to get Dredge until you’ve already spent time doing the first 2 fractals. Used to be able to get a PUG for any level of FotM in about 3 mins before the “amazing” fractal update, now you would be hard pressed to find one at all.

Welcome to Guild Wars 2 where the only true path to success is sitting at the trading post all day flipping goods. Sure, it’s an awful MMO but it’s a pretty good Wall Street simulator.

sirflamesword.3896:

GrandmaFunk.3052:

Nick.6972:

Just finished FOTM scale 44.
Almost 2 hours.

Did you have fun?

There is NOTHING fun about Dredge, not a single thing. Of course you don’t know you are going to get Dredge until you’ve already spent time doing the first 2 fractals. Used to be able to get a PUG for any level of FotM in about 3 mins before the “amazing” fractal update, now you would be hard pressed to find one at all.

If it’s not fun don’t do it.

If you still do it without getting reward, it must be fun.

sirflamesword.3896:

GrandmaFunk.3052:

Nick.6972:

Just finished FOTM scale 44.
Almost 2 hours.

Did you have fun?

There is NOTHING fun about Dredge, not a single thing. Of course you don’t know you are going to get Dredge until you’ve already spent time doing the first 2 fractals. Used to be able to get a PUG for any level of FotM in about 3 mins before the “amazing” fractal update, now you would be hard pressed to find one at all.

Exactly. We had 2 people quit right after we got Dredge.

Fungalfoot.7213:

Welcome to Guild Wars 2 where the only true path to success is sitting at the trading post all day flipping goods. Sure, it’s an awful MMO but it’s a pretty good Wall Street simulator.

LOL funny you say that, a former guild mate started flipping on the TP made a lot of gold, doesn’t play anymore, instead they got interested in RL trading haha and now buy and sell stocks, thinking they could put the same methods to use, I guess we shall see how that works out,

On the topic now, FotM loot system has been broken since it started, I don’t know why your so upset, surely you know that any content in this game that takes time to complete is never worth the drops, it only gets worse the higher you go, I have ran 1000’s of fractals and never walked out with anything great, sure everyone gets the T6 mats, the fotm exotics etc, but it really is just pure RnG, my fellow guild mate that runs FotM also since the fractured update has gotten 8 ascended chests, and a pre cursor,

I guess it comes back to the old, certain accounts are tagged on creation to have higher RnG rolls than others.

If you want loot stick to doing the PRESS 1 to win events, or TP flipping.

GrandmaFunk.3052:

Nick.6972:

Just finished FOTM scale 44.
Almost 2 hours.

Did you have fun?

Don’t pull the fun card. This is a cop-out.

Seven Star Stalker.1740:

GrandmaFunk.3052:

Nick.6972:

Just finished FOTM scale 44.
Almost 2 hours.

Did you have fun?

Don’t pull the fun card. This is a cop-out.

It seemed like a pretty sturdy argument towards the high-end Fractal community (those at level 80, or even just 50-60+) who were enraged about progression rollback.

“I worked hard to get here!” they’d say.
“But the fun was your reward so it’s okay!” the hypercasuals would retort.

OldSomalia.6180:

Seven Star Stalker.1740:

GrandmaFunk.3052:

Nick.6972:

Just finished FOTM scale 44.
Almost 2 hours.

Did you have fun?

Don’t pull the fun card. This is a cop-out.

It seemed like a pretty sturdy argument towards the high-end Fractal community (those at level 80, or even just 50-60+) who were enraged about progression rollback.

“I worked hard to get here!” they’d say.
“But the fun was your reward so it’s okay!” the hypercasuals would retort.

But he’s not addressing that.

Pie Flavor.1647:

the content that actually challenges you and puts your skill into test is not very rewarding (PvP, fractals, etc…) yet the mindless content designed only to keep you playing the game endlessly like a drone is the most rewarding (dungeons, LS)

And people log back every 2 weeks for their shiny. Working as intended.

Seven Star Stalker.1740:

OldSomalia.6180:

Seven Star Stalker.1740:

GrandmaFunk.3052:

Nick.6972:

Just finished FOTM scale 44.
Almost 2 hours.

Did you have fun?

Don’t pull the fun card. This is a cop-out.

It seemed like a pretty sturdy argument towards the high-end Fractal community (those at level 80, or even just 50-60+) who were enraged about progression rollback.

“I worked hard to get here!” they’d say.
“But the fun was your reward so it’s okay!” the hypercasuals would retort.

But he’s not addressing that.

That’s why I didn’t address him as an aggressor.

I was more interested in using what he said as a social commentary illustrating how an argument can suit both sides of a debate depending on the current, and as you pointed out, very differing contexts.

Ok I Did It.2854:

Fungalfoot.7213:

Welcome to Guild Wars 2 where the only true path to success is sitting at the trading post all day flipping goods. Sure, it’s an awful MMO but it’s a pretty good Wall Street simulator.

LOL funny you say that, a former guild mate started flipping on the TP made a lot of gold, doesn’t play anymore, instead they got interested in RL trading haha and now buy and sell stocks, thinking they could put the same methods to use, I guess we shall see how that works out,

On the topic now, FotM loot system has been broken since it started, I don’t know why your so upset, surely you know that any content in this game that takes time to complete is never worth the drops, it only gets worse the higher you go, I have ran 1000’s of fractals and never walked out with anything great, sure everyone gets the T6 mats, the fotm exotics etc, but it really is just pure RnG, my fellow guild mate that runs FotM also since the fractured update has gotten 8 ascended chests, and a pre cursor,

I guess it comes back to the old, certain accounts are tagged on creation to have higher RnG rolls than others.

If you want loot stick to doing the PRESS 1 to win events, or TP flipping.

I personally believe that some accounts have different luck than others, so I agree
with you. Before hitting rank 33 in WvW, I got two ascended chests (sentinel and
celestial) in the SAME WEEK. Meanwhile, other people in the guild who were over
2k rank had never even seen 1.

I love how i can be soloing a boss for a few minutes getting it down to 5%.. some dude comes along, tag’s the thing and then pings a ascended box while i am rewarded a box of blues..

gg.. reminding me never to put efford into anything and join the zerg..

Dalanor.5387:

Pie Flavor.1647:

the content that actually challenges you and puts your skill into test is not very rewarding (PvP, fractals, etc…) yet the mindless content designed only to keep you playing the game endlessly like a drone is the most rewarding (dungeons, LS)

And people log back every 2 weeks for their shiny. Working as intended.

Found a pic of the player with the most achievement points in GW2. Here he is enjoying the LS.

Would you work for the 1/4 of your current salary?
Even if you loved your job, sooner or later you would lose your motivation and move to a better paid job.

work != play.

brush us off with sneering comments about casual and carebears all you want… anyone repeatedly doing something they don’t enjoy for a reward they don’t want/need is kind of insane. Especially if they paid to do it.

It’s not like the rewards are any kind of surprise once you’re at scale 44, you already KNOW the reward isn’t enough to offset your time/effort and yet you do it anyway, over and over.

GW2 needs to move from an RNG reward system to a token system + RNG systems.

So if you do lvl 50 fractals and want your greatsword, they can make it cost 30 tokens and reward you with 1 each successful run, while still maintaining a rare drop rate of greatswords.

Paul.4081:

Dalanor.5387:

Pie Flavor.1647:

the content that actually challenges you and puts your skill into test is not very rewarding (PvP, fractals, etc…) yet the mindless content designed only to keep you playing the game endlessly like a drone is the most rewarding (dungeons, LS)

And people log back every 2 weeks for their shiny. Working as intended.

Found a pic of the player with the most achievement points in GW2. Here he is enjoying the LS.

Ahahahah. Awesome that Paul. :P

Vol.7601:

GW2 needs to move from an RNG reward system to a token system + RNG systems.

So if you do lvl 50 fractals and want your greatsword, they can make it cost 30 tokens and reward you with 1 each successful run, while still maintaining a rare drop rate of greatswords.

The problem is that then you got people who wants RNG for whatever reason.

When I suggested that Tequatl should drop unique tokens to buy his skins and ascended boxes with, I got quite a few replies about how RNG makes the rewards exciting.

I guess across the MMO industry, the devs must be quite confused about this issue overall, because if everyone hates RNG that much, why do raids still operate ona RNG basis for drops in most MMOs?

On this topic, I think different fractals should give different rewards. I mean, Jade Maw is clearly not as difficult as the other boss fractals, and thus is illogical to have it give out the same rewards. Same applies to dredge, and etc.

After spending few hours in the beta of new MMO last night, I switched to GW2 and play until 4 AM. I found out, it is the only MMO that I find fun, even though, rewards for certains things suck.

Mortifer.2946:

After spending few hours in the beta of new MMO last night, I switched to GW2 and play until 4 AM. I found out, it is the only MMO that I find fun, even though, rewards for certains things suck.

what game was it?

I was unable to play FFXIV: ARR due to GW2

There really isn’t any MMO coming out on the market this year that can significantly challenge GW2 in the long-term.

Vol.7601:

GW2 needs to move from an RNG reward system to a token system + RNG systems.

So if you do lvl 50 fractals and want your greatsword, they can make it cost 30 tokens and reward you with 1 each successful run, while still maintaining a rare drop rate of greatswords.

That doesn’t really solve the problem that GW2 is a game where loot is unrewarding by design. It just means you get useless loot more reliably.

Vol.7601:

There really isn’t any MMO coming out on the market this year that can significantly challenge GW2 in the long-term.

In the long term… maybe. In the short term… it’s pretty obvious anyone who is okay with paying a subscription will try out WS or ESO, just because they’re new. GW2 hasn’t seen barely anything new in terms of content.

Revamped maps and zerg content are not ‘new’ content.

Naqaj.6219:

Vol.7601:

GW2 needs to move from an RNG reward system to a token system + RNG systems.

So if you do lvl 50 fractals and want your greatsword, they can make it cost 30 tokens and reward you with 1 each successful run, while still maintaining a rare drop rate of greatswords.

That doesn’t really solve the problem that GW2 is a game where loot is unrewarding by design. It just means you get useless loot more reliably.

The problem is though, what would you call rewarding loot?

There’s things that can be changed (e.g add a wardrobe system, even if its through the gemstore), but fundamentally, without touching things in the realm of making more skills, loot comes in 2 types:

1. Statistical improvements.
2. Cosmetics.

I don’t think we want more of number 1, so its going to be cosmetics no matter what you do.

Unless you meant the whole 2 blues 1 green thing. Then think of this scenario: if instead of that you get 2 exotics and 1 ascended out of every metaevent. Would that be better?

@Siren I would be hard-pressed to assume that. ESO is already receiving bad word of mouth, that’s going to turn off a lot of players.

WS is like FF14 ARR. Its a good MMO but it isn’t going to blow your mind, there’s nothing really new there which will blow my socks off. There’s their adventures which seems new-ish but one single game mode which is difficult for the devs to create more of and thus probably won’t be updated too much isn’t going to attract new players.

Vol.7601:

There really isn’t any MMO coming out on the market this year that can significantly challenge GW2 in the long-term.

Actually there are many coming out that can/will challenge GW2.

Final quarter in games sales for 2013 for GW2 was down 25%. Some may view that as player loss or at the very least less interest in supporting GW2 due to it’s current state.

The top 10 list/report of in games sales for mmorpgs listed some interesting titles. GW2 did not make the list. World of tanks hitting number 1 at an absurd amount of money was some what surprising though but, generally speaking it caters to a much older player base with a much higher disposable income.

What I am saying by all this is nothing more then the game is loosing some steam which is understandable after a year. But, at the same time it also has some core issues it needs to address relatively soon because there are far to many players I am aware of in game and guilds that are loosing interest and looking for anything even remotely interesting to jump ship.

That above statement does not take into account the overall negative feelings on the forums.

The revenue model GW2 uses get’kitten a lot harder when people aren’t playing. Contrary to popular belief GW2 NEEDS people to log in frequently so they can see the “enticing” adds in the gem shop and hopefully spend money.

All new titles will take players away from all games. Some temporarily some forever. But, the point is at this stage there are far to many people I know personally looking for anything even remotely viable to play. That is a dangerous position for a game to be in.

Gw2 is fast becoming the stand by game until something “better” comes out.

Xae Isareth.1364:

The problem is though, what would you call rewarding loot?

Personally I wouldn’t call loot rewarding at all, period. I don’t think you can make loot rewarding in the long term in this game due to how it is designed, because there’s just no real need to have it the way there used to be in previous MMOs.

That’s the big problem for Arenanet to solve. Players notice there’s something lacking to do once character progression is finished. They’ve learned in other MMOs that the the thing to do now is to get more loot, so that’s what they ask for. But do you really need it for anything? How satisfying is it really to get exotic drops for a character who is already halfway geared in ascendent? Yeah, you can always sell them, but for what? To get more gold to buy … what exactly?

Naqaj.6219:

Xae Isareth.1364:

The problem is though, what would you call rewarding loot?

Personally I wouldn’t call loot rewarding at all, period. I don’t think you can make loot rewarding in the long term in this game due to how it is designed, because there’s just no real need to have it the way there used to be in previous MMOs.

That’s the big problem for Arenanet to solve. Players notice there’s something lacking to do once character progression is finished. They’ve learned in other MMOs that the the thing to do now is to get more loot, so that’s what they ask for. But do you really need it for anything? How satisfying is it really to get exotic drops for a character who is already halfway geared in ascendent? Yeah, you can always sell them, but for what? To get more gold to buy … what exactly?

This game has loot and vertical progression.

The problem is both systems were implemented horribly.

You need to give player’s a reason to keep playing. Anet has yet to accomplish that goal and people are stating to see that more and more now.

I got my moneys worth out of this game in terms of box cost. First time around doing map completion , dungeons , wold events and all that was fun. But, in the end with the terrible loot and gear systems we have doing these things each and every day just to do them for no other reason other then doing them isn’t enough.

Nick.6972:

Would you work for the 1/4 of your current salary?
Even if you loved your job, sooner or later you would lose your motivation and move to a better paid job.

I exercise for free, all the time. No one pays me for it. I don’t get rewarded. I still exercise. Sometimes it feels like a job and I still do it.

If you’re not having fun, don’t play the game. If you’re playing the game just for rewards, that’s pretty bad anyway. People who play that way really can’t be satisfied.

If the reward is too easy to get, everyone gets it and everyone is rewarded. If the reward is too hard to get it’s a second job. But everyone has different levels of what is too hard, so no one can ever really be happy.

Naqaj.6219:

Xae Isareth.1364:

The problem is though, what would you call rewarding loot?

Personally I wouldn’t call loot rewarding at all, period. I don’t think you can make loot rewarding in the long term in this game due to how it is designed, because there’s just no real need to have it the way there used to be in previous MMOs.

That’s the big problem for Arenanet to solve. Players notice there’s something lacking to do once character progression is finished. They’ve learned in other MMOs that the the thing to do now is to get more loot, so that’s what they ask for. But do you really need it for anything? How satisfying is it really to get exotic drops for a character who is already halfway geared in ascendent? Yeah, you can always sell them, but for what? To get more gold to buy … what exactly?

All sorts of reasons. Buy cosmetics, work on legendaries, or even just hoarding gold for the sake of hoarding gold.

If you think about what loot was for in other MMOs, you get more loot to get stronger to get more loot, so, there really wasn’t much of a point either.

Personally I just like collecting gold. Its the same in every MMO I’ve played, I never really had anything I wanted in mind when I play and even if something catches my eye, I’d still make even more gold after I got that item.

Azreell.1568:

This game has loot and vertical progression.

The problem is both systems were implemented horribly.

You need to give player’s a reason to keep playing. Anet has yet to accomplish that goal and people are stating to see that more and more now.

Well, it has progression for about a month. Maybe two if you count Ascendent for fractals, or people who like lots of alts. I don’t think that part of the game is what’s discussed here, is it?

As you noted, it’s about reasons to keep playing. A better loot system doesn’t work in my opinion, because no matter how great the loot distribution is, after 2 months there’s just no reason to care about loot anymore.

Also I think discussing this issue with you across two threads is confusing as kitten

Azreell.1568:

Vol.7601:

There really isn’t any MMO coming out on the market this year that can significantly challenge GW2 in the long-term.

Actually there are many coming out that can/will challenge GW2.

Final quarter in games sales for 2013 for GW2 was down 25%. Some may view that as player loss or at the very least less interest in supporting GW2 due to it’s current state.

It’s down 25% year over year. Of course you’re going to drop off, because GW2 launched in Q4 2012, hence a large majority of sales came from boxed product that wasn’t marked down

This game is catered towards rewarding casuals and hardcore players equally.

That is the logic behind this game.
I doubt there are many casuals that can do high lvl fracs/spvp lol. Sure some, but the majority of the players are pretty awful skill wise.

I mean for gods sake, after 4 weeks of marionette, multiple platforms were failing during each warden. I played that event every time I could because of dat loot from chest. Unfortuntely, I had only been a part of maybe 7-8 runs where we beat all the wardens during the 4 week span of this event… and I did this event pretty heavily (3-4 times a day, more on weekends)

Majority of the people suck at this game, no twisting it around. It’s mighty evident.
GW2 will get a major cry fest if they added rewards for things that require skill
If they added something like complete fractal under xx time, you get rewarded with better stuff, or get a 5-10 kill streak without dying in spvp for bonus loot, the casual crowd would come and cry and say its completely impossible for them to do.

This is why we can’t have nice things

Player Skill is not rewarded fairly in this game at all.

Nage.1520:

Nick.6972:

Would you work for the 1/4 of your current salary?
Even if you loved your job, sooner or later you would lose your motivation and move to a better paid job.

I exercise for free, all the time. No one pays me for it. I don’t get rewarded. I still exercise. Sometimes it feels like a job and I still do it.

If you’re not having fun, don’t play the game. If you’re playing the game just for rewards, that’s pretty bad anyway. People who play that way really can’t be satisfied.

If the reward is too easy to get, everyone gets it and everyone is rewarded. If the reward is too hard to get it’s a second job. But everyone has different levels of what is too hard, so no one can ever really be happy.

The problem is that MMOs have long become something more than a game to a lot of people. Its bordering on a literal second life. When that happens, you really start considering your effort-to-reward ratio just like in real life.

But I don’t think measuring everything on a basis of gold-per-hour is the way to solve the problem. Different content should have different, non-interchangeable rewards, because you can never balance out the gold-per-hour ratio, ever, there’s too many loopholes and possibilities.

For example, I don’t think Anet ever forsaw people abusing the spawn timer to farm champions.

They’ve sort of started on that path. Blade Shards for example, can’t be traded so if you want your sword wings, you need to do the LA event. At the same time, they are preserving the usefulness of gold by having some rewards tradable for gold and some stuff which requires it.

Xae Isareth.1364:

If you think about what loot was for in other MMOs, you get more loot to get stronger to get more loot, so, there really wasn’t much of a point either.

Well, in most previous MMOs, you needed the gear progression to get access to new content. That was the point of gear. That logic doesn’t translate to GW2 though (and I don’t miss it tbh.)

sirflamesword.3896:

There is NOTHING fun about Dredge, not a single thing.

the part OP is leaving out is quite fun. Unless he fell asleep, he got around 60 heavy miner’s bags = 2.4g

Vol.7601:

Azreell.1568:

Vol.7601:

There really isn’t any MMO coming out on the market this year that can significantly challenge GW2 in the long-term.

Actually there are many coming out that can/will challenge GW2.

Final quarter in games sales for 2013 for GW2 was down 25%. Some may view that as player loss or at the very least less interest in supporting GW2 due to it’s current state.

It’s down 25% year over year. Of course you’re going to drop off, because GW2 launched in Q4 2012, hence a large majority of sales came from boxed product that wasn’t marked down

You do not read well do you.

The entire part of the financial report I explained was based on IN GAME SALES. Box sales are a separate entity. In the final quarter of ’13 IN GAME sales went down 25% aka gem shop.

Not once did I say total sales.

Do you understand now?

Box Sales I would expect a decline after a title is over a year old.

Ingame sales will drop even more once the new set of MMOs release (upcoming wildstar, ESO, EQN, etc)

If anet doesnt fix this “no rewards for skilled gameplay” or any true viable endgame (most ppl just doing WvW for now but I have feeling those new set of MMOs will have far better mass scale pvp than zerg vs zerg fest that is infested in wvw

SkiTz.4590:

Ingame sales will drop even more once the new set of MMOs release (upcoming wildstar, ESO, EQN, etc)

If anet doesnt fix this “no rewards for skilled gameplay” or any true viable endgame (most ppl just doing WvW for now but I have feeling those new set of MMOs will have far better mass scale pvp than zerg vs zerg fest that is infested in wvw

The thing is ESO (if you do not want super lag of cant attk at all and dieing 5 mins after getting hit) and Wildstar (40 players max) are smaller. No real info about the mmorpg part of EQN though.

tolunart.2095:

Farzo.8410:

You have done Fractals all the way up to level 44 and you decide to write a forum post about the rewards now?

More like “again,” this particular horse is dug up and re-beaten on a regular basis.

I’ll have you know, your comment had me actually ‘lol’ at my desk. At work.

Jski.6180:

SkiTz.4590:

Ingame sales will drop even more once the new set of MMOs release (upcoming wildstar, ESO, EQN, etc)

If anet doesnt fix this “no rewards for skilled gameplay” or any true viable endgame (most ppl just doing WvW for now but I have feeling those new set of MMOs will have far better mass scale pvp than zerg vs zerg fest that is infested in wvw

The thing is ESO (if you do not want super lag of cant attk at all and dieing 5 mins after getting hit) and Wildstar (40 players max) are smaller. No real info about the mmorpg part of EQN though.

I’m quite sure ESO can handle hundreds of players, but it was done at a price. They said they;ve made their characters such that hundreds of them can be on the screen at once, what that translated to was hideous character models and low graphical quality on characters. You just can’t have both… yet.