Guild Wars 2

I have played GW2 since beta 1, more and more I see the GW2 manifesto getting more and more untrue.
Bosses dont respawn after 10min yeah right , please explain Queensdale champ runs, I would really like to know and why you diverted your own goals and plans to………..this.

They made it quite clear that the “Bosses don’t respawn after 10 min” referred to the Personal Story. In which case it is very much true.

Another thing to keep in mind is the fact that a Manifesto != 100% end product but rather just a plan and an intention.

Even anet themselves said that the manifesto is more of a design guideline that changes over time and shouldn’t be taken literally by now (I’ll try to find a source)

But going by that particular point, they clarified few days after the manifesto was first released (and long before the game was released) that the “bosses don’t respawn 10 minutes later” bit refers not to the open world but to the personal story. Unfortunately that was in an old interview and is gone by now.

lordkrall.7241:

They made it quite clear that the “Bosses don’t respawn after 10 min” referred to the Personal Story. In which case it is very much true.

Another thing to keep in mind is the fact that a Manifesto != 100% end product but rather just a plan and an intention.

Can you please link that beacuse as far as I know that was NOT anything about personal story, how can a boss respawn in a solo instance?

You would think the Manifesto was the Holy Bible or something. Do people worship this thing and offer ritual sacrifices to it?

Found it:

http://amd-icbm.com/icbm/anet-blog-mmo-manifesto-reactions/

Eric: Thanks, Dave. Yeah, in the video Ree is speaking about the player’s personal story, whereas Colin is talking about dynamic events. We like to think of personal story choices being permanent and dynamic event choices being persistent. The difference being persistent choices will remain until something comes along and changes them. So for instance, in the personal story you may choose to let an NPC die, that NPC is likely to be an important story NPC that the player feels some attachment to, their death will be permanent and will have repercussions on the characters story. This would be reflected in instances. In the persistent world a dynamic event might result in an NPC being killed. This will be a more generic NPC like a merchant or a soldier who will likely be replaced once some other event takes place.Colin: Right, when Ree refers to, “players will kill a boss and they won’t re-spawn 10 minutes later,” she is saying when playing through your personal story line if you kill a boss, that boss will stay dead and your personal story will reflect this. It’s not really physically possible to make each dynamic event permanent, because the game needs enough content for everyone to play, and we don’t have 10,000 people making content for Guild Wars 2, event chains need to cycle and events need to repeat to ensure players have enough to do in the persistent game world. Our goal with events is to ensure that when an event ends, you feel like it actually has some sort of outcome on the game world for all players, if even for a short period of time, where traditional MMO quest in persistent areas generally have no affect on the world.

This seems to rear its head every couple of weeks or so … perhaps even more frequently … but I think what’s important to bear in mind is that a manifesto is, by definition, a “public declaration of intentions, opinions, objectives, or motives”. Not promises, oaths, pledges of allegiance, etc. They put forth their intentions for the game, their opinions of what they’d like to do with it, their objectives for various aspects of it, and/or their motives for doing so. I don’t believe anywhere is it stated that “we do hereby solemnly swear that ___________”.

I can appreciate and understand folks feeling there are aspects of the game that could be included, improved upon, or even removed, but for what was said in an interview prior to the game ever even hitting beta to be brought up as something akin to the ten commandants … it may be time, perhaps, to look ahead to see what constructive and collaborative feedback/discussions may have on turning this into a game that surpasses every expectation anyone ever had in the beginning.

I have a great idea. Let’s look at a three year old five minute video and learn everything we can learn about the game from it, and then, when it’s not 100% true, let’s say that the game isn’t what they said it would be.

A manifesto is a statement of intent. That’s the definition of the world. It’s not a promise of anything. That’s the first point.

As other’s pointed out, it was produced in such a way that was confusing, so three days after the manifesto was released, it was clarified.

But more important than any of this, Anet spent the next two years after the manifesto was released, going into great detail about exactly what a dynamic event was, with examples. They did that for personal story too.

I knew before this game launched that dynamic events would ping pong back along in a line and repeat. I knew long before this game launched that the personal story would be different in the beginning and funnel people towards Zhaitan, and even that around the middle of the game, all roads would lead to Lion’s Arch.

There was no secret. There was no guesswork. It was all right in the open.

And three years later, people are still bringing up this video regularly, not only misunderstanding certain aspects of it, but actually ignoring the myriad releases of information that have happened since then.

I’m not sure what the point of bringing up a five minute video three years later is.

We’ve had both sides dissect the manifesto so much that it is pointless to even try anymore.

Forget there was one, ANet have.

Torgrim.3642:

lordkrall.7241:

They made it quite clear that the “Bosses don’t respawn after 10 min” referred to the Personal Story. In which case it is very much true.

Another thing to keep in mind is the fact that a Manifesto != 100% end product but rather just a plan and an intention.

Can you please link that beacuse as far as I know that was NOT anything about personal story, how can a boss respawn in a solo instance?

http://web.archive.org/web/20130201031636/http://www.arena.net/blog/mmo-manifesto-reactions

DarcShriek.5829:

You would think the Manifesto was the Holy Bible or something. Do people worship this thing and offer ritual sacrifices to it?

The manifesto listed Anet’s core ideals and intentions for the game. Many many people bought the game based on these words. To many people, Anet has gone back or even turned 180 degrees on many of those words — that’s why they feel betrayed. It’s as simple as that.

Lord Kuru.3685:

DarcShriek.5829:

You would think the Manifesto was the Holy Bible or something. Do people worship this thing and offer ritual sacrifices to it?

The manifesto listed Anet’s core ideals and intentions for the game. Many many people bought the game based on these words. To many people, Anet has gone back or even turned 180 degrees on many of those words — that’s why they feel betrayed. It’s as simple as that.

Point 1…Anet did NOT do a 180 degree turnaround on the manifesto and saying they did like it’s some kind of fact is simply, definitely wrong.

There is precisely one line in the manifesto that can be, in my opinion, legitimately argued…and that’s the line “everything we loved about Guild Wars 1”.

Now…since different people would love different things, it’s hardly possible to logically take that line literally.

The line about grind is large misunderstood, and often taken out of context and misrepresented.

Everything else in the manifesto is actually true.

If I were building a house and I laid out 100 things and 2 or 3 of them changes, no one would say I made a complete 180.

There are other quotes you can say that about. The manifesto doesn’t have it.

It would probably be better to drop the conversation, most people have already made up their mind about whether Anet changed their direction 180 degrees or not, and you’re not going to convince anyone that doesn’t already believe it.

Edit: Anyone who watch the manifesto 2 years before the game launched and did no other research, has only themselves to blame for getting the game…assuming the manifesto was the only thing they paid attention to. There was so much information out. I know I followed the progress of this game. I’m not sure why people would watch a five minute video, look at nothing else about a game, buy the game and then complain that it wasn’t what was in the five minute video.

Two years is a very long time in game development. Things change all the time.

Lord Kuru.3685:

DarcShriek.5829:

You would think the Manifesto was the Holy Bible or something. Do people worship this thing and offer ritual sacrifices to it?

The manifesto listed Anet’s core ideals and intentions for the game. Many many people bought the game based on these words. To many people, Anet has gone back or even turned 180 degrees on many of those words — that’s why they feel betrayed. It’s as simple as that.

Based on a 5 minute video from 3 years ago, but they never bothered to look at any other information ever again for the next 2 years prior to release, or even bothered to look at the myriad of information available if they happened to look at that video a long time later? Sorry, but if they feel betrayed, it is not Anets fault at all, but their own. Anet had information out there for years, but they can’t force people to actually read it. The spirit of the manifesto is very much intact, I haven’t seen anything that goes against the Manifesto… then again I actually read the information that Anet gave us for the 2 years prior to release.

The manifesto contained a lot of words that are difficult to pin down. Grind, for instance, is intensely subjective. Boss respawns? Did anyone expect open world bosses to be killed only once, then never be seen again? If so, that was an unrealistic expectation. Would an ogre boss with the same model and mechanics, but a different name, be any different than one with the same name? Did you expect that open world MMO content would never repeat?

The biggest reversal in GW2 was the introduction of VP, which was not discussed one way or the other in the manifesto. The lack thereof was stated in other pre-launch advertising. Which, by the way, is what the manifesto was. It was advertising.

Taken as a whole, what the game offers has shifted a bit from what was advertised back then. These things happen. I’m no more happy about it than anyone, but it’s time to let the recriminations about the manifesto go — especially because what it stated is open to interpretation.

According to the manifesto, two years out from publication the Devs can talk enormous smack about other MMO designers…

…only to fall back on the exact same tired solutions when their own deadlines start to loom.

lol because clarified or not, all the stuff they talked about after the manifesto is hidden deep within the confines of the Internet like it’s a huge secret. Marketing ploys. Make it look good on the outside, once you hit it like a ram, you’ll find out it’s just air.

DarcShriek.5829:

You would think the Manifesto was the Holy Bible or something. Do people worship this thing and offer ritual sacrifices to it?

No not at all, but it helped make a lot of people Purchase the Game!

And if it was just a guideline and not a direction they were going to use, why would they even bother with the manifesto PR. why not scrap the whole video and say we are making a generic copy MMO with some nice mechanics added.. it would have been more respectful to their community at the time.

If the manifesto wasn’t false advertising i’d love to see what you guys think false advertising really is..

Skan.5301:

lol because clarified or not, all the stuff they talked about after the manifesto is hidden deep within the confines of the Internet like it’s a huge secret. Marketing ploys. Make it look good on the outside, once you hit it like a ram, you’ll find out it’s just air.

No the clarifications were front and center and talked about for over a year, before the short memory of the public buried it. When I first brought it up people accused me of lying about it, until someone was kind enough to find it for me.

But more to the point, every aspect of the manifesto was questioned endlessly by the fan base, and the information about it was anything but hidden. You’d have had to have been living in a paper bag to have not seen the hundreds of conversations and clarifications and discussions about the manifesto. Every forum had them. Articles and magazines talked about it. Ama’s on redit has questions about them. Convention panels and videos talked about them.

This stuff was SO clarified it beggar’s belief that anyone could claim in good faith this information was hidden.

It may be harder to find at this time, because this is the internet. Old information is usually supplanted pretty fast by new information. The game HAS changed, and the changes are documents and finding conversations about three year old videos is harder now than it was two, three years ago.

Which is probably why moving on makes more sense than focusing on it. There was no secret.

Vayne.8563:

Skan.5301:

lol because clarified or not, all the stuff they talked about after the manifesto is hidden deep within the confines of the Internet like it’s a huge secret. Marketing ploys. Make it look good on the outside, once you hit it like a ram, you’ll find out it’s just air.

No the clarifications were front and center and talked about for over a year, before the short memory of the public buried it. When I first brought it up people accused me of lying about it, until someone was kind enough to find it for me.

But more to the point, every aspect of the manifesto was questioned endlessly by the fan base, and the information about it was anything but hidden. You’d have had to have been living in a paper bag to have not seen the hundreds of conversations and clarifications and discussions about the manifesto. Every forum had them. Articles and magazines talked about it. Ama’s on redit has questions about them. Convention panels and videos talked about them.

This stuff was SO clarified it beggar’s belief that anyone could claim in good faith this information was hidden.

It may be harder to find at this time, because this is the internet. Old information is usually supplanted pretty fast by new information. The game HAS changed, and the changes are documents and finding conversations about three year old videos is harder now than it was two, three years ago.

Which is probably why moving on makes more sense than focusing on it. There was no secret.

I’ll agree to disagree, you have your opinion i have mine.

The fact that the clarifications popped up after the Video aired does not justify what was said in the video and how untrue it appears, also why if they needed to clarify it didn’t they ever add fixes and a more up to date version of the manifesto video to help fix perceived mistakes people were having..

People are considering open-world champs bosses now?

Wow.

Vayne.8563:

Skan.5301:

lol because clarified or not, all the stuff they talked about after the manifesto is hidden deep within the confines of the Internet like it’s a huge secret. Marketing ploys. Make it look good on the outside, once you hit it like a ram, you’ll find out it’s just air.

No the clarifications were front and center and talked about for over a year, before the short memory of the public buried it. When I first brought it up people accused me of lying about it, until someone was kind enough to find it for me.

But more to the point, every aspect of the manifesto was questioned endlessly by the fan base, and the information about it was anything but hidden. You’d have had to have been living in a paper bag to have not seen the hundreds of conversations and clarifications and discussions about the manifesto. Every forum had them. Articles and magazines talked about it. Ama’s on redit has questions about them. Convention panels and videos talked about them.

This stuff was SO clarified it beggar’s belief that anyone could claim in good faith this information was hidden.

It may be harder to find at this time, because this is the internet. Old information is usually supplanted pretty fast by new information. The game HAS changed, and the changes are documents and finding conversations about three year old videos is harder now than it was two, three years ago.

Which is probably why moving on makes more sense than focusing on it. There was no secret.

The Manifesto is still on the main website in all it’s glory. Where are the clarification topics that are supposed to accompany it? On other websites as of now.

Just because some people bookmarked the blog post to run to everytime they search “manifesto” on the forums for a defence mechanism doesn’t mean everyone else has it bookmarked as well.

And no, not everyone followed everything related to GW2 like a bloodhound prior to release as some people apparently did. For some, it’s the manifesto that sticks to memory. Why? Because that was the main marketing of the whole game. Not the blog post. Keep going.

Xista.7391:

People are considering open-world champs bosses now?

Wow.

And that is a key point right there, the open world champs are in fact not bosses at all, notice how none of them have unique names. Even Shatterer is actually a title, not a name. When one shatterer dies, another one takes it place. Actually bosses are all in instances only, none are actually in the open world, and do not respawn 10 minutes later unless you started the instances again which is not the same as respawning.

Xista.7391:

People are considering open-world champs bosses now?

Wow.

When did they not call open world champs, bosses, everyone on my server calls them bosses, i can’t even think of a Story mode boss apart from Zaitan.

Also please name an MMO that have respawnable bosses in their storyline quests and cutscenes because i’ve never come across any in any game that spawn 10min after you kill them in stories/cutscenes..

Open world sure every game, even Guildwars 2. which is why so many loved the Video people thought things were changing for the better.

Dante.1508:

Vayne.8563:

Skan.5301:

lol because clarified or not, all the stuff they talked about after the manifesto is hidden deep within the confines of the Internet like it’s a huge secret. Marketing ploys. Make it look good on the outside, once you hit it like a ram, you’ll find out it’s just air.

No the clarifications were front and center and talked about for over a year, before the short memory of the public buried it. When I first brought it up people accused me of lying about it, until someone was kind enough to find it for me.

But more to the point, every aspect of the manifesto was questioned endlessly by the fan base, and the information about it was anything but hidden. You’d have had to have been living in a paper bag to have not seen the hundreds of conversations and clarifications and discussions about the manifesto. Every forum had them. Articles and magazines talked about it. Ama’s on redit has questions about them. Convention panels and videos talked about them.

This stuff was SO clarified it beggar’s belief that anyone could claim in good faith this information was hidden.

It may be harder to find at this time, because this is the internet. Old information is usually supplanted pretty fast by new information. The game HAS changed, and the changes are documents and finding conversations about three year old videos is harder now than it was two, three years ago.

Which is probably why moving on makes more sense than focusing on it. There was no secret.

I’ll agree to disagree, you have your opinion i have mine.

The fact that the clarifications popped up after the Video aired does not justify what was said in the video and how untrue it appears, also why if they needed to clarify it didn’t they ever add fixes and a more up to date version of the manifesto video to help fix perceived mistakes people were having..

The clarifications popped up 3 days after the video, once Anet saw that people were confused. And it was discussed endlessly. Unless you can gainsay this (and most of it is a matter of fact) there is ZERO to disagree with. That is to day, you can’t disagree that the clarification came out 3 days after the manifesto released. It did. You cant’ disagree there were pages and pages of discussions because it’s a matter of fact.

You can disagree, I suppose that it wasn’t enough. But at that time, there was no reason to further clarify because most people seemed to understand.

Anet didn’t have a crystal ball to think that 3 years later, people would bring it up ignoring the wealth of information they provided after.

eisberg.2379:

Xista.7391:

People are considering open-world champs bosses now?

Wow.

And that is a key point right there, the open world champs are in fact not bosses at all, notice how none of them have unique names. Even Shatterer is actually a title, not a name. When one shatterer dies, another one takes it place. Actually bosses are all in instances only, none are actually in the open world, and do not respawn 10 minutes later unless you started the instances again which is not the same as respawning.

Um what… many champs have unique names…

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/List_of_champions

Skan.5301:

Vayne.8563:

Skan.5301:

lol because clarified or not, all the stuff they talked about after the manifesto is hidden deep within the confines of the Internet like it’s a huge secret. Marketing ploys. Make it look good on the outside, once you hit it like a ram, you’ll find out it’s just air.

No the clarifications were front and center and talked about for over a year, before the short memory of the public buried it. When I first brought it up people accused me of lying about it, until someone was kind enough to find it for me.

But more to the point, every aspect of the manifesto was questioned endlessly by the fan base, and the information about it was anything but hidden. You’d have had to have been living in a paper bag to have not seen the hundreds of conversations and clarifications and discussions about the manifesto. Every forum had them. Articles and magazines talked about it. Ama’s on redit has questions about them. Convention panels and videos talked about them.

This stuff was SO clarified it beggar’s belief that anyone could claim in good faith this information was hidden.

It may be harder to find at this time, because this is the internet. Old information is usually supplanted pretty fast by new information. The game HAS changed, and the changes are documents and finding conversations about three year old videos is harder now than it was two, three years ago.

Which is probably why moving on makes more sense than focusing on it. There was no secret.

The Manifesto is still on the main website in all it’s glory. Where are the clarification topics that are supposed to accompany it? On other websites as of now.

Just because some people bookmarked the blog post to run to everytime they search “manifesto” on the forums for a defence mechanism doesn’t mean everyone else has it bookmarked as well.

And no, not everyone followed everything related to GW2 like a bloodhound prior to release as some people apparently did. For some, it’s the manifesto that sticks to memory. Why? Because that was the main marketing of the whole game. Not the blog post. Keep going.

Right, so go to the Guild Wars 2 main page and read the stuff about personal story and dynamic events that exist to this day. Instead of a video that is five minutes long, get some depth into your understanding. It’s a five minute video with two minutes of speech. How could anyone encapsulate an entire game in that time? What reasonable consumer would expect that to be all the information they needed. It was a teaser to get people to look more deeply and the more deeply doesn’t need a clarification because the game is out, videos are out, all the info on the website is there.

The manifesto IS still on the website. It’s one of 24 videos, and it’s the last of them. Most people would probably realize that that makes it the oldest (though maybe not. Some people may not have figured that out that newer videos are up top and older videos are at the bottom).

MMOs, unlike any other type of game change constantly. If they’re not changing they’ve been abandoned.

I’ve never seen any other fan group that goes to three year old videos and tries to make an issue of it, while ignoring some of the other 23 videos sitting around it.

Vayne.8563:

Dante.1508:

Vayne.8563:

Skan.5301:

lol because clarified or not, all the stuff they talked about after the manifesto is hidden deep within the confines of the Internet like it’s a huge secret. Marketing ploys. Make it look good on the outside, once you hit it like a ram, you’ll find out it’s just air.

No the clarifications were front and center and talked about for over a year, before the short memory of the public buried it. When I first brought it up people accused me of lying about it, until someone was kind enough to find it for me.

But more to the point, every aspect of the manifesto was questioned endlessly by the fan base, and the information about it was anything but hidden. You’d have had to have been living in a paper bag to have not seen the hundreds of conversations and clarifications and discussions about the manifesto. Every forum had them. Articles and magazines talked about it. Ama’s on redit has questions about them. Convention panels and videos talked about them.

This stuff was SO clarified it beggar’s belief that anyone could claim in good faith this information was hidden.

It may be harder to find at this time, because this is the internet. Old information is usually supplanted pretty fast by new information. The game HAS changed, and the changes are documents and finding conversations about three year old videos is harder now than it was two, three years ago.

Which is probably why moving on makes more sense than focusing on it. There was no secret.

I’ll agree to disagree, you have your opinion i have mine.

The fact that the clarifications popped up after the Video aired does not justify what was said in the video and how untrue it appears, also why if they needed to clarify it didn’t they ever add fixes and a more up to date version of the manifesto video to help fix perceived mistakes people were having..

The clarifications popped up 3 days after the video, once Anet saw that people were confused. And it was discussed endlessly. Unless you can gainsay this (and most of it is a matter of fact) there is ZERO to disagree with. That is to day, you can’t disagree that the clarification came out 3 days after the manifesto released. It did. You cant’ disagree there were pages and pages of discussions because it’s a matter of fact.

You can disagree, I suppose that it wasn’t enough. But at that time, there was no reason to further clarify because most people seemed to understand.

Anet didn’t have a crystal ball to think that 3 years later, people would bring it up ignoring the wealth of information they provided after.

Skan.5301:

The Manifesto is still on the main website in all it’s glory. Where are the clarification topics that are supposed to accompany it? On other websites as of now.

Just because some people bookmarked the blog post to run to everytime they search “manifesto” on the forums for a defence mechanism doesn’t mean everyone else has it bookmarked as well.

And no, not everyone followed everything related to GW2 like a bloodhound prior to release as some people apparently did. For some, it’s the manifesto that sticks to memory. Why? Because that was the main marketing of the whole game. Not the blog post. Keep going.

As my reply i’ll quote Skan as this is my exact 100% correct response to you Vayne.

Why were these Clarifications never released to their website on day one of these perceived issues popped up so the customers that don’t follow GW2 100% 24/7 could be seen, and again why hasn’t the video ever been fixed or appended.

Dante.1508:

eisberg.2379:

Xista.7391:

People are considering open-world champs bosses now?

Wow.

And that is a key point right there, the open world champs are in fact not bosses at all, notice how none of them have unique names. Even Shatterer is actually a title, not a name. When one shatterer dies, another one takes it place. Actually bosses are all in instances only, none are actually in the open world, and do not respawn 10 minutes later unless you started the instances again which is not the same as respawning.

Um what… many champs have unique names…

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/List_of_champions

Like 95% of that list is " Champion ’ Generic Name’ " and they have no unique skill set what so ever. I know some do, but the champion zerg in Queensdale/Frostgourge being called bosses is laughable. They’re just glorfied mobs.

Dante.1508:

Vayne.8563:

Dante.1508:

Vayne.8563:

Skan.5301:

lol because clarified or not, all the stuff they talked about after the manifesto is hidden deep within the confines of the Internet like it’s a huge secret. Marketing ploys. Make it look good on the outside, once you hit it like a ram, you’ll find out it’s just air.

No the clarifications were front and center and talked about for over a year, before the short memory of the public buried it. When I first brought it up people accused me of lying about it, until someone was kind enough to find it for me.

But more to the point, every aspect of the manifesto was questioned endlessly by the fan base, and the information about it was anything but hidden. You’d have had to have been living in a paper bag to have not seen the hundreds of conversations and clarifications and discussions about the manifesto. Every forum had them. Articles and magazines talked about it. Ama’s on redit has questions about them. Convention panels and videos talked about them.

This stuff was SO clarified it beggar’s belief that anyone could claim in good faith this information was hidden.

It may be harder to find at this time, because this is the internet. Old information is usually supplanted pretty fast by new information. The game HAS changed, and the changes are documents and finding conversations about three year old videos is harder now than it was two, three years ago.

Which is probably why moving on makes more sense than focusing on it. There was no secret.

I’ll agree to disagree, you have your opinion i have mine.

The fact that the clarifications popped up after the Video aired does not justify what was said in the video and how untrue it appears, also why if they needed to clarify it didn’t they ever add fixes and a more up to date version of the manifesto video to help fix perceived mistakes people were having..

The clarifications popped up 3 days after the video, once Anet saw that people were confused. And it was discussed endlessly. Unless you can gainsay this (and most of it is a matter of fact) there is ZERO to disagree with. That is to day, you can’t disagree that the clarification came out 3 days after the manifesto released. It did. You cant’ disagree there were pages and pages of discussions because it’s a matter of fact.

You can disagree, I suppose that it wasn’t enough. But at that time, there was no reason to further clarify because most people seemed to understand.

Anet didn’t have a crystal ball to think that 3 years later, people would bring it up ignoring the wealth of information they provided after.

Skan.5301:

The Manifesto is still on the main website in all it’s glory. Where are the clarification topics that are supposed to accompany it? On other websites as of now.

Just because some people bookmarked the blog post to run to everytime they search “manifesto” on the forums for a defence mechanism doesn’t mean everyone else has it bookmarked as well.

And no, not everyone followed everything related to GW2 like a bloodhound prior to release as some people apparently did. For some, it’s the manifesto that sticks to memory. Why? Because that was the main marketing of the whole game. Not the blog post. Keep going.

As my reply i’ll quote Skan as this is my exact 100% correct response to you Vayne.

Why were these Clarifications never released to their website on day one of these perceived issues popped up so the customers that don’t follow GW2 100% 24/7 could be seen, and again why hasn’t the video ever been fixed or appended.

Because the specific clarification was supplanted by better clarifications. There’s a section on dynamic events. There’s a section on living story.

That’s the reason.

And Anet probably thought (as I do) that there’s so much information there, than having 3 lines out of one video questioned, and that’s what we’re talking about, 3 lines from a three year old video, doesn’t require an entire page.

I’m sure 99% of the population realized it’s ancient history and six guys with an ax to grind isn’t going to change that.

Vayne.8563:

Skan.5301:

Vayne.8563:

Skan.5301:

lol because clarified or not, all the stuff they talked about after the manifesto is hidden deep within the confines of the Internet like it’s a huge secret. Marketing ploys. Make it look good on the outside, once you hit it like a ram, you’ll find out it’s just air.

No the clarifications were front and center and talked about for over a year, before the short memory of the public buried it. When I first brought it up people accused me of lying about it, until someone was kind enough to find it for me.

But more to the point, every aspect of the manifesto was questioned endlessly by the fan base, and the information about it was anything but hidden. You’d have had to have been living in a paper bag to have not seen the hundreds of conversations and clarifications and discussions about the manifesto. Every forum had them. Articles and magazines talked about it. Ama’s on redit has questions about them. Convention panels and videos talked about them.

This stuff was SO clarified it beggar’s belief that anyone could claim in good faith this information was hidden.

It may be harder to find at this time, because this is the internet. Old information is usually supplanted pretty fast by new information. The game HAS changed, and the changes are documents and finding conversations about three year old videos is harder now than it was two, three years ago.

Which is probably why moving on makes more sense than focusing on it. There was no secret.

The Manifesto is still on the main website in all it’s glory. Where are the clarification topics that are supposed to accompany it? On other websites as of now.

Just because some people bookmarked the blog post to run to everytime they search “manifesto” on the forums for a defence mechanism doesn’t mean everyone else has it bookmarked as well.

And no, not everyone followed everything related to GW2 like a bloodhound prior to release as some people apparently did. For some, it’s the manifesto that sticks to memory. Why? Because that was the main marketing of the whole game. Not the blog post. Keep going.

Right, so go to the Guild Wars 2 main page and read the stuff about personal story and dynamic events that exist to this day. Instead of a video that is five minutes long, get some depth into your understanding. It’s a five minute video with two minutes of speech. How could anyone encapsulate an entire game in that time? What reasonable consumer would expect that to be all the information they needed. It was a teaser to get people to look more deeply and the more deeply doesn’t need a clarification because the game is out, videos are out, all the info on the website is there.

The manifesto IS still on the website. It’s one of 24 videos, and it’s the last of them. Most people would probably realize that that makes it the oldest (though maybe not. Some people may not have figured that out that newer videos are up top and older videos are at the bottom).

MMOs, unlike any other type of game change constantly. If they’re not changing they’ve been abandoned.

I’ve never seen any other fan group that goes to three year old videos and tries to make an issue of it, while ignoring some of the other 23 videos sitting around it.

Here are all the videos —> GW2 Videos. Tell me which one clarifies things and which ones aren’t just showing me how this game is different from other MMOs.

And the ones at the top are all eye candy for events.

I just watched the one on Dynamic Events. No where in there is it saying this is how it’s done or talking about something from the manifesto other than “in traditional MMOs, this happens, in GW2, this happens”.

Vayne.8563:

I’ve never seen any other fan group that goes to three year old videos and tries to make an issue of it, while ignoring some of the other 23 videos sitting around it.

No other MMO has ever made sweeping judgements about itself and then done a 180 backflip a year later to my knowledge either.

Also what is stated in that video counters nearly every aspect in this game today, many of manifesto videos lines helped untold customers buy the game, which to a customer even three years later (i saw it much much later) is a big deal as they feel lied too, i know i do, very much so, clarifications or not.

I do not have an Axe to grind Anet can go in any direction they feel.. i just will watch on the sidelines, i just speak up how i feel when i perceive a company has lied to me, and let others know why i’m upset, even three years later.

It is about the only right i have, since i purchased the game, and would like to show my opinion on the direction they are taking the game is a very bad one, yes i’m one person but contrary to what you think or like to think its far from six players with so called axes to grind.

You’re still missing the point. There are 31 lines in the manifesto of which people have questioned 3 lines. That’s it. The manifesto isn’t the sole video you need to see to understand the game, and even if you misinterpreted ALL THREE LINES, it’s a tiny portion of the manifesto itself, which is only 1 video out of 24.

There is a video in there that tells you specifically about the personal story and another video in there that specifically tells you about dynamic events. There are other videos that tell you about everything.

So what you’re saying is that anything that MIGHT be misintepreted from three years ago, in a single video should have it’s own page of corrections just in case someone might misunderstand it, because my understanding of some of those lines, even without the clarification was completely different.

A teaser is a teaser. The purpose of publishing one is to get someone to go further and investigate more, not to provide every single bit of information that person would need.

Whether or not any individual clarification is in any individual video really isn’t the point at all. To simplify.

A video game out two years ago before the game came out, three years ago now. It had a set of intentions in it, some of which may or may not have been met. The video still is mostly correct, almost completely correct, even without the clarification of a single point.

If someone bought the game on that one single point, they had ages to request a refund.

No company goes back over every video, a video that’s pretty much ancient history, clarifies it to death, and keeps it going, because no company has the time or energy to do that. They’re working on the new information.

This is indeed on Anet’s website and it is indeed mostly true and there are, at this point, maybe a handful of people who have no idea that dynamic events get repeated, but saying that this is something Anet has to rectify is just plain silly.

They’re making new videos about new content that apply to now.

Those who continually bring up the manifesto are living in the past, and any MMO player will tell you that’s not a good place to be.

Hell in Guild Wars 1 right now you can get the Legendary Defender of Ascalon without death leveling. That’s a major, major change. Maybe they should take out an ad in a magazine about it.

You’ll essentially know playing Guild Wars 2 that events will repeat from the moment you start playing. If it’s that big a deal to you at that time, go ask for a refund.

I’m pretty sure most new players aren’t buying this game because of the manifesto, which has been around forever.

And the people who have bought it and played it for hundreds of hours have had plenty of time to complain years ago.

I have an honest question for those who are still bringing up three lines of the manifesto…and think about this before you answer it.

If the game had met your expectation in other ways, would you still be bringing up the manifesto? Would you even care about it?

My opinion is that people who continually bring up the manifesto are looking for something to pick on. They’re looking to give their complaints about the game veracity. See, the manifesto said this. It didn’t happen. That’s why this game is bad.

If your complaints about the game are legitimate, you shouldn’t need to bring up the manifesto to prove something. If you found that the game was misrepresented, you had tons of time to ask for a refund. If you feel that the manifesto is so powerful, so compelling that every other scrap of information around (including gameplay videos and previews) can be ignored, because you decided to fixate on certain lines…well I’d say that’s your own lookout.

Three year old videos are almost never relevant to MMOs anymore and yet they remain on every MMO site.

I think people complain about the manifesto because they’re dissatisfied with other things in the game and it’s become sort of a rallying point for them.

But all it really does is distract from things in the game that are actually wrong and can be improved.

Or did you think Anet would stop respawning bosses, because you never saw the manifesto?

Dante.1508:

Vayne.8563:

I’ve never seen any other fan group that goes to three year old videos and tries to make an issue of it, while ignoring some of the other 23 videos sitting around it.

No other MMO has ever made sweeping judgements about itself and then done a 180 backflip a year later to my knowledge either.

Also what is stated in that video counters nearly every aspect in this game today, many of manifesto videos lines helped untold customers buy the game, which to a customer even three years later (i saw it much much later) is a big deal as they feel lied too, i know i do, very much so, clarifications or not.

I do not have an Axe to grind Anet can go in any direction they feel.. i just will watch on the sidelines, i just speak up how i feel when i perceive a company has lied to me, and let others know why i’m upset, even three years later.

It is about the only right i have, since i purchased the game, and would like to show my opinion on the direction they are taking the game is a very bad one, yes i’m one person but contrary to what you think or like to think its far from six players with so called axes to grind.

Actually how do you know this? I’ve seen some pretty big sweeping statements from other MMO developers and those things never eventuated. I bought Rift because of one of them, and it turned out to be complete untrue. Enough people apparently liked and enjoyed the game so that it didn’t matter, and I moved on, because staying on the forums of a game I don’t like is a waste of energy and time.

I think other games, and other MMOs have made big sweeping statements, and saying this is the only one that did is disingenuous.

And they didn’t do a 180 from the manifesto, because I disagree with your interpretation of a single line. They did do a 180 from other interviews and such that didn’t appear on their webpage however.

It just wasn’t in the manifesto.

Horse. Dead. Move along.

Vayne.8563:

the manifesto itself, which is only 1 video out of 24.

18 of the 24 videos are showcases.

There is a video in there that tells you specifically about the personal story and another video in there that specifically tells you about dynamic events. There are other videos that tell you about everything

It’s telling me how it’s different on GW2 from traditional MMOs, not actually telling me much aside from instilling in me that GW2 is different.

So what you’re saying is that anything that MIGHT be misintepreted from three years ago, in a single video should have it’s own page of corrections just in case someone might misunderstand it, because my understanding of some of those lines, even without the clarification was completely different.

No. I’m saying a link to where I can see it on the official GW2 website should be there. I shouldn’t have to go to some random website that saved it on their server from a post way back when. Someone at ANet wrote it, I don’t see why it’s on deleted blogs and not situated where I can see it without a Google search on the topic.

saying that this is something Anet has to rectify is just plain silly.

Why? Why is it silly to say ANet should go back and fix the Manifesto to reflect what they really meant? Because of time? Because of all the content that’s being worked on? They can spend hours doing live feeds, but can’t fix a video? It’s still their main marketing point. Do you see the almost daily threads on here about this topic? People are still viewing it.

Those who continually bring up the manifesto are living in the past, and any MMO player will tell you that’s not a good place to be.

It’s called nostalgia.

If the game had met your expectation in other ways, would you still be bringing up the manifesto? Would you even care about it?

I would. But I don’t base most of my comments off of the Manifesto. And so would others. Because there’s more that’s been reverted that’s outside of it. And before you tell me MMOs change and evolve and all that, I agree with you, that they do. But, they shouldn’t go in the total opposite direction over what was said. A small turn is alright, but going all the way around is not.

Maybe you understood everything that was said in the Manifesto in all your wide worldy wisdom. Others didn’t. In fact, I’d be willing to bet that maybe 20 people total understood what was actually being said in the whole video. Truth or not, the other 98% of the game’s population that saw it didn’t.

Skan.5301:

Vayne.8563:

the manifesto itself, which is only 1 video out of 24.

18 of the 24 videos are showcases.

There is a video in there that tells you specifically about the personal story and another video in there that specifically tells you about dynamic events. There are other videos that tell you about everything

It’s telling me how it’s different on GW2 from traditional MMOs, not actually telling me much aside from instilling in me that GW2 is different.

So what you’re saying is that anything that MIGHT be misintepreted from three years ago, in a single video should have it’s own page of corrections just in case someone might misunderstand it, because my understanding of some of those lines, even without the clarification was completely different.

No. I’m saying a link to where I can see it on the official GW2 website should be there. I shouldn’t have to go to some random website that saved it on their server from a post way back when. Someone at ANet wrote it, I don’t see why it’s on deleted blogs and not situated where I can see it without a Google search on the topic.

saying that this is something Anet has to rectify is just plain silly.

Why? Why is it silly to say ANet should go back and fix the Manifesto to reflect what they really meant? Because of time? Because of all the content that’s being worked on? They can spend hours doing live feeds, but can’t fix a video? It’s still their main marketing point. Do you see the almost daily threads on here about this topic? People are still viewing it.

Those who continually bring up the manifesto are living in the past, and any MMO player will tell you that’s not a good place to be.

It’s called nostalgia.

If the game had met your expectation in other ways, would you still be bringing up the manifesto? Would you even care about it?

I would. But I don’t base most of my comments off of the Manifesto. And so would others. Because there’s more that’s been reverted that’s outside of it. And before you tell me MMOs change and evolve and all that, I agree with you, that they do. But, they shouldn’t go in the total opposite direction over what was said. A small turn is alright, but going all the way around is not.

Maybe you understood everything that was said in the Manifesto in all your wide worldy wisdom. Others didn’t. In fact, I’d be willing to bet that maybe 20 people total understood what was actually being said in the whole video. Truth or not, the other 98% of the game’s population didn’t..

98% of the players didn’t even see the manifesto video in the first place /rolleyes

eisberg.2379:

Skan.5301:

Vayne.8563:

the manifesto itself, which is only 1 video out of 24.

18 of the 24 videos are showcases.

There is a video in there that tells you specifically about the personal story and another video in there that specifically tells you about dynamic events. There are other videos that tell you about everything

It’s telling me how it’s different on GW2 from traditional MMOs, not actually telling me much aside from instilling in me that GW2 is different.

So what you’re saying is that anything that MIGHT be misintepreted from three years ago, in a single video should have it’s own page of corrections just in case someone might misunderstand it, because my understanding of some of those lines, even without the clarification was completely different.

No. I’m saying a link to where I can see it on the official GW2 website should be there. I shouldn’t have to go to some random website that saved it on their server from a post way back when. Someone at ANet wrote it, I don’t see why it’s on deleted blogs and not situated where I can see it without a Google search on the topic.

saying that this is something Anet has to rectify is just plain silly.

Why? Why is it silly to say ANet should go back and fix the Manifesto to reflect what they really meant? Because of time? Because of all the content that’s being worked on? They can spend hours doing live feeds, but can’t fix a video? It’s still their main marketing point. Do you see the almost daily threads on here about this topic? People are still viewing it.

Those who continually bring up the manifesto are living in the past, and any MMO player will tell you that’s not a good place to be.

It’s called nostalgia.

If the game had met your expectation in other ways, would you still be bringing up the manifesto? Would you even care about it?

I would. But I don’t base most of my comments off of the Manifesto. And so would others. Because there’s more that’s been reverted that’s outside of it. And before you tell me MMOs change and evolve and all that, I agree with you, that they do. But, they shouldn’t go in the total opposite direction over what was said. A small turn is alright, but going all the way around is not.

Maybe you understood everything that was said in the Manifesto in all your wide worldy wisdom. Others didn’t. In fact, I’d be willing to bet that maybe 20 people total understood what was actually being said in the whole video. Truth or not, the other 98% of the game’s population didn’t..

98% of the players didn’t even see the manifesto video in the first place /rolleyes

It took a long time to edit that comment, however, I fixed it to reflect what I was trying to say. 20 players equaling to 2% of the total game’s population would make the game have a fairly low playerbase.

Thanks for using cognitive thinking.

eisberg.2379:

Skan.5301:

Vayne.8563:

the manifesto itself, which is only 1 video out of 24.

18 of the 24 videos are showcases.

There is a video in there that tells you specifically about the personal story and another video in there that specifically tells you about dynamic events. There are other videos that tell you about everything

It’s telling me how it’s different on GW2 from traditional MMOs, not actually telling me much aside from instilling in me that GW2 is different.

So what you’re saying is that anything that MIGHT be misintepreted from three years ago, in a single video should have it’s own page of corrections just in case someone might misunderstand it, because my understanding of some of those lines, even without the clarification was completely different.

No. I’m saying a link to where I can see it on the official GW2 website should be there. I shouldn’t have to go to some random website that saved it on their server from a post way back when. Someone at ANet wrote it, I don’t see why it’s on deleted blogs and not situated where I can see it without a Google search on the topic.

saying that this is something Anet has to rectify is just plain silly.

Why? Why is it silly to say ANet should go back and fix the Manifesto to reflect what they really meant? Because of time? Because of all the content that’s being worked on? They can spend hours doing live feeds, but can’t fix a video? It’s still their main marketing point. Do you see the almost daily threads on here about this topic? People are still viewing it.

Those who continually bring up the manifesto are living in the past, and any MMO player will tell you that’s not a good place to be.

It’s called nostalgia.

If the game had met your expectation in other ways, would you still be bringing up the manifesto? Would you even care about it?

I would. But I don’t base most of my comments off of the Manifesto. And so would others. Because there’s more that’s been reverted that’s outside of it. And before you tell me MMOs change and evolve and all that, I agree with you, that they do. But, they shouldn’t go in the total opposite direction over what was said. A small turn is alright, but going all the way around is not.

Maybe you understood everything that was said in the Manifesto in all your wide worldy wisdom. Others didn’t. In fact, I’d be willing to bet that maybe 20 people total understood what was actually being said in the whole video. Truth or not, the other 98% of the game’s population didn’t..

98% of the players didn’t even see the manifesto video in the first place /rolleyes

Care to backup this statement?

Gasoline.2570:

eisberg.2379:

Skan.5301:

Vayne.8563:

the manifesto itself, which is only 1 video out of 24.

18 of the 24 videos are showcases.

There is a video in there that tells you specifically about the personal story and another video in there that specifically tells you about dynamic events. There are other videos that tell you about everything

It’s telling me how it’s different on GW2 from traditional MMOs, not actually telling me much aside from instilling in me that GW2 is different.

So what you’re saying is that anything that MIGHT be misintepreted from three years ago, in a single video should have it’s own page of corrections just in case someone might misunderstand it, because my understanding of some of those lines, even without the clarification was completely different.

No. I’m saying a link to where I can see it on the official GW2 website should be there. I shouldn’t have to go to some random website that saved it on their server from a post way back when. Someone at ANet wrote it, I don’t see why it’s on deleted blogs and not situated where I can see it without a Google search on the topic.

saying that this is something Anet has to rectify is just plain silly.

Why? Why is it silly to say ANet should go back and fix the Manifesto to reflect what they really meant? Because of time? Because of all the content that’s being worked on? They can spend hours doing live feeds, but can’t fix a video? It’s still their main marketing point. Do you see the almost daily threads on here about this topic? People are still viewing it.

Those who continually bring up the manifesto are living in the past, and any MMO player will tell you that’s not a good place to be.

It’s called nostalgia.

If the game had met your expectation in other ways, would you still be bringing up the manifesto? Would you even care about it?

I would. But I don’t base most of my comments off of the Manifesto. And so would others. Because there’s more that’s been reverted that’s outside of it. And before you tell me MMOs change and evolve and all that, I agree with you, that they do. But, they shouldn’t go in the total opposite direction over what was said. A small turn is alright, but going all the way around is not.

Maybe you understood everything that was said in the Manifesto in all your wide worldy wisdom. Others didn’t. In fact, I’d be willing to bet that maybe 20 people total understood what was actually being said in the whole video. Truth or not, the other 98% of the game’s population didn’t..

98% of the players didn’t even see the manifesto video in the first place /rolleyes

Care to backup this statement?

lol, you pick mine out, but not the one I was responding to?

Skan.5301:

Vayne.8563:

the manifesto itself, which is only 1 video out of 24.

18 of the 24 videos are showcases.

There is a video in there that tells you specifically about the personal story and another video in there that specifically tells you about dynamic events. There are other videos that tell you about everything

It’s telling me how it’s different on GW2 from traditional MMOs, not actually telling me much aside from instilling in me that GW2 is different.

So what you’re saying is that anything that MIGHT be misintepreted from three years ago, in a single video should have it’s own page of corrections just in case someone might misunderstand it, because my understanding of some of those lines, even without the clarification was completely different.

No. I’m saying a link to where I can see it on the official GW2 website should be there. I shouldn’t have to go to some random website that saved it on their server from a post way back when. Someone at ANet wrote it, I don’t see why it’s on deleted blogs and not situated where I can see it without a Google search on the topic.

saying that this is something Anet has to rectify is just plain silly.

Why? Why is it silly to say ANet should go back and fix the Manifesto to reflect what they really meant? Because of time? Because of all the content that’s being worked on? They can spend hours doing live feeds, but can’t fix a video? It’s still their main marketing point. Do you see the almost daily threads on here about this topic? People are still viewing it.

Those who continually bring up the manifesto are living in the past, and any MMO player will tell you that’s not a good place to be.

It’s called nostalgia.

If the game had met your expectation in other ways, would you still be bringing up the manifesto? Would you even care about it?

I would. But I don’t base most of my comments off of the Manifesto. And so would others. Because there’s more that’s been reverted that’s outside of it. And before you tell me MMOs change and evolve and all that, I agree with you, that they do. But, they shouldn’t go in the total opposite direction over what was said. A small turn is alright, but going all the way around is not.

Maybe you understood everything that was said in the Manifesto in all your wide worldy wisdom. Others didn’t. In fact, I’d be willing to bet that maybe 20 people total understood what was actually being said in the whole video. Truth or not, the other 98% of the game’s population that saw it didn’t.

I call bullkitten on the nostalgia line. Nostalgia is something you remember fondly, not something you bring up to poke holes in it. Nostalgia is something positive, not something negative.

Anet has moved on. This is one video out of 24. People don’t need to see this one video, because there’s so much out there, not just on the website. And the website DOES explain the game.

This is a teaser. You’re critiquing a teaser that’s 3 years old. There is NO reason to revisit it. Zero. Zilch. None.

The only people who do so are people who have an ax to grind…and everyone else knows it.

Vayne.8563:

I call bullkitten on the nostalgia line. Nostalgia is something you remember fondly, not something you bring up to poke holes in it. Nostalgia is something positive, not something negative.

I fondly remember what the game was like before November 15th, 2012. That’s nostalgia. I fondly remember WoW during the BC era. That’s nostalgia. I fondly remember my HC raid Guild <RF> in EQ.

It’s not about poking holes into anything. Like I’ve said numerous times which you seem to skip over, why are those blog post clarifying what was said in the Manifesto not on the website alongside the video?

And again, 17 – 18 of the videos are showcases. You seem to not be reading that as well.

The only people who do so are people who have an ax to grind…and everyone else knows it.

I don’t have an axe* to grind with ANet. In fact, I’ve been a loyal supporter of ANet/NCSoft since I started playing Guild Wars since April of 2005. I’m not sure who everyone else is, but, there are many here who fall into the same category.

As for the teaser part, there are ~2 videos that are called teasers. Those are actually teasers. The manifesto actually talks about the game, not just a cinematic. Teasers are usually cinematics that show an aspect of the game, it doesn’t have developer commentary.

Keep trying. You’re falling short.

Vayne.8563:

The clarifications popped up 3 days after the video, once Anet saw that people were confused. And it was discussed endlessly. Unless you can gainsay this (and most of it is a matter of fact) there is ZERO to disagree with. That is to day, you can’t disagree that the clarification came out 3 days after the manifesto released. It did. You cant’ disagree there were pages and pages of discussions because it’s a matter of fact.

You can disagree, I suppose that it wasn’t enough. But at that time, there was no reason to further clarify because most people seemed to understand.

Anet didn’t have a crystal ball to think that 3 years later, people would bring it up ignoring the wealth of information they provided after.

^^^ Lagely irrelevant as the Manifesto was an advertisement (even you have claimed as much in previous posts) and did not include the “clarifications” you speak of. The manifesto remained front and center, promoted by Anet, while the “clarifications” were not. You claim to be or have been an editor. You should know that if one is editing a piece of work one does not promote and circulate the unedited version while burying the corrected version and expect the edited iteration to be the accepted version. If the subsequent comments were supposed to “clarify” the manifesto why were they not kept up while the manifesto was ? The advertisement kept front and center by Anet right up through pre-orders, pre-purchases, and launch included no clarifications.

If I am selling a product on my website, advertising it as X on that site, it is not a defense against claims of misleading advertisement to argue that I told someone in a conversation, not linked to the ad itself, that I meant something other than what was said in the posted advertisement.

Skan.5301:

Vayne.8563:

I call bullkitten on the nostalgia line. Nostalgia is something you remember fondly, not something you bring up to poke holes in it. Nostalgia is something positive, not something negative.

I fondly remember what the game was like before November 15th, 2012. That’s nostalgia. I fondly remember WoW during the BC era. That’s nostalgia. I fondly remember my HC raid Guild <RF> in EQ.

It’s not about poking holes into anything. Like I’ve said numerous times which you seem to skip over, why are those blog post clarifying what was said in the Manifesto not on the website alongside the video?

And again, 17 – 18 of the videos are showcases. You seem to not be reading that as well.

The only people who do so are people who have an ax to grind…and everyone else knows it.

I don’t have an axe* to grind with ANet. In fact, I’ve been a loyal supporter of ANet/NCSoft since I started playing Guild Wars since April of 2005. I’m not sure who everyone else is, but, there are many here who fall into the same category.

As for the teaser part, there are ~2 videos that are called teasers. Those are actually teasers. The manifesto actually talks about the game, not just a cinematic. Teasers are usually cinematics that show an aspect of the game, it doesn’t have developer commentary.

Keep trying. You’re falling short.

I’m not skipping over anything. You keep skipping over the fact that the manifesto is 3 years old and it was five minutes long and had 2 minutes of speech in it. Do you realize how disingenuous this makes you look?

Every MMO changes. Guild Wars 2 has had changes. No one denies they have changes. The lines you’re picking on in the MMO aren’t overly significant. The only one trying to make a big deal about them are people dissatisfied with the game FOR OTHER REASONS.

And that is nothing but poking holes. Because if you liked the game, the manifesto would never be brought up, even if it had holes. For example, the part you’re referring to that the clarification refers to, has nothing to do with grind or ascended weapons, or balance.

So if you weren’t upset with those issues, the manifesto would be a moot point. You ONLY bring it up because you’re dissatisfied.

That to me is the very definition of disingenuous.

Ashen.2907:

Vayne.8563:

The clarifications popped up 3 days after the video, once Anet saw that people were confused. And it was discussed endlessly. Unless you can gainsay this (and most of it is a matter of fact) there is ZERO to disagree with. That is to day, you can’t disagree that the clarification came out 3 days after the manifesto released. It did. You cant’ disagree there were pages and pages of discussions because it’s a matter of fact.

You can disagree, I suppose that it wasn’t enough. But at that time, there was no reason to further clarify because most people seemed to understand.

Anet didn’t have a crystal ball to think that 3 years later, people would bring it up ignoring the wealth of information they provided after.

^^^ Lagely irrelevant as the Manifesto was an advertisement (even you have claimed as much in previous posts) and did not include the “clarifications” you speak of. The manifesto remained front and center, promoted by Anet, while the “clarifications” were not. You claim to be or have been an editor. You should know that if one is editing a piece of work one does not promote and circulate the unedited version while burying the corrected version and expect the edited iteration to be the accepted version. If the subsequent comments were supposed to “clarify” the manifesto why were they not kept up while the manifesto was ? The advertisement kept front and center by Anet right up through pre-orders, pre-purchases, and launch included no clarifications.

If I am selling a product on my website, advertising it as X on that site, it is not a defense against claims of misleading advertisement to argue that I told someone in a conversation, not linked to the ad itself, that I meant something other than what was said in the posted advertisement.

The manifesto was promoted by Anet for a very brief period of time, after which other stuff was promoted by Anet. During the time the manifesto was promoted, the clarification was widely known and talked about. Anet stopped talking about it. They came out with new videos and talked about new things. By the time they stopped talking about the manifesto, and face it, they did, the manifesto clarification was still up and around and easy to find.

Now, three years later, of course it’s hard to find. It’s three year old info on a three year old video, about a game that changes every two weeks.

I have a great idea. Let’s stop everything Anet is doing, go back and fix everything in every document they ever made, instead of moving on and working on the game now.

Because in essence that’s what people are saying. This one five minute video was so good, so prevalent, so important, that it closed down everyone’s logical facility, twisted are arms, single-handledly made us by the game without another spec of researching, and now, a year after launch, you JUST realized bosses respawn.

Give me a break.

Stop beating the dead horse. The Manifesto is gone.

You spam autoattack. You press one, one and one again.
You grind your back of for BiS items.
Casuals won’t get stuff (ascended weapons anyone) and crafting is time gated.
You grind for everything btw.
Did I mention grind?

They even stated officially, that the Manifesto is no longer valid. So why won’t you adapt the one or the other way. The game has to, down South…

Kaiyanwan.8521:

Stop beating the dead horse. The Manifesto is gone.

You spam autoattack. You press one, one and one again.
You grind your back of for BiS items.
Casuals won’t get stuff (ascended weapons anyone) and crafting is time gated.
You grind for everything btw.
Did I mention grind?

They even stated officially, that the Manifesto is no longer valid. So why won’t you adapt the one or the other way. The game has to, down South…

I disagree with your interpretation and the manifesto and many others do as well. The type of grind being referred to is defined in the manifesto itself. If you really think the manifesto is talking about gear grind, I really don’t know what to tell you.

Source:

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2011-09-27-guild-wars-2-preview

Colin Johanson:

“Everyone, including casual gamers, by level 80 should have the best statistical loot in the game. We want everyone on an equal power base. The rare stuff becomes the really awesome looking armours. It’s all about collecting the unique looking stuff and collecting all the other rare collectable items in the game: armour pieces, potentially different potions – a lot of that is still up in the air and we’ll finalise a lot of those reward systems as we get closer to release. And those come off of things like the bosses at the end of dungeons – the raids.”

That’s on what the Manifesto is based, read the rest. I really don’t care how you interpretate the Manifesto, I just take what the DEVs said about their goals, that’s good enough for me. And that Manifesto is dead.

Kaiyanwan.8521:

Source:

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2011-09-27-guild-wars-2-preview

Colin Johanson:

“Everyone, including casual gamers, by level 80 should have the best statistical loot in the game. We want everyone on an equal power base. The rare stuff becomes the really awesome looking armours. It’s all about collecting the unique looking stuff and collecting all the other rare collectable items in the game: armour pieces, potentially different potions – a lot of that is still up in the air and we’ll finalise a lot of those reward systems as we get closer to release. And those come off of things like the bosses at the end of dungeons – the raids.”

That’s on what the Manifesto is based, read the rest. I really don’t care how you interpretate the Manifesto, I just take what the DEVs said about their goals, that’s good enough for me. And that Manifesto is dead.

Nope that came out after the manifesto.

I distinctly remember Colin saying that the idea of grind was that they wanted people to have fun things to do early in games, unlike other games. It’s why they put the Shadow Behemoth in a starter zone. They want people to have fun encounters, fun things to do up front. And that’s directly what he says in the manifesto.

In other words, the manifesto defines the grind they were talking about. Other convention panels and conversations further defied it. Now, years later, Colin says something to respond to people.

It’s much easier to say what he said than try to tell people they misinterpreted it, but face it. There’s NO MENTION of the word gear in the manifesto. There’s no mention of vertical progression at all. There’s only the mention of the word grind…but it’s mentioned twice.

As with any document the first time you mention a word defines the word and the second time refers to the first reference.

If you have pre-existing definitions of what grind is to you, of course you’re superimpose it over what’s going said. The words of the manifesto itself are against you.

What the kitten, he is explaining what the Manifesto means, on what idea it was founded. The ideas on what the whole game was based on. The bloody concept.

But well, nothing is harder to see than the things you don’t want to see…