Guild Wars 2

Hey guys o/

I have a few question about the aggro system.First question is how is it supposed to be work ? Of course i checked wiki and it said it depends on range and dmg and if you are inside the event or not.But this doesnt work well , because as example ,when i was running around in a map and was opening a chest and i saw some peoples(6-10 players) a bit far away from me like 900 – 1200 range from them ,while they was attacking the enemy over and over and i got just suddenly the aggro from the target ? i was like wtf ? I did not attacked it or anything else.So i couldnt open the chest of course , because of that trasher ,which loved to put vines into my kitten …

Then on a diffrent map i was this time attacking the trasher was one of those champions in sw.So this time i attacked it like a maniac ( thanks to engi dps ?) But i notice this time it stucked his whole attacks on me ? It wasnt going for randoms or atleast i didnt gave me the feeling , because at the first time i though:" okay it`s totally random aggro" , but nope this time it was attacking me the whole time ,even , if i was at a range of 900.I mean there was tons of other places , why it didnt attacked them ? If it is maybe “rangebased ?”

Next situation: This was in bwe 3 raid content.I was playing rabid engi ( full asc armor) other ppls used full asc aswell.They ran forward i went in later , but before i want to say what happend.Wiki say it doesnt depends on toughness ? or so.

So here we go.I went in was far away,while the other ones was still attacking it,then again it went straight to me and stucked at me , even , if i was downed ? I didnt not attacked it. I was just running around and it followed me( dont worry ! i didnt ruined the raid for pugs!I was doing it with friends).Everyone was like wtf ?

So my question is now … Does those stuff like ,how far you are away from the npc,How much dmg you dealt and are you inside the event circle affect all npcs at once ? I mean this is some kind of bullkitten atleast for me ,because i always ended up dead , because no one else got the aggro after it until i died ? It happends in dungeons ,fractals or somewhere else.Also over time it getting quite abit annoying.I even tried whole knight gear in hope to deal zero dmg (to prevent aggro) almost or soldier for some toughness , but nope still ended up dead , while the aggro stucked on me ? …. So is it now toughnessbased ? Dmgbased AND rangebased ? Can anet just set a priority list?Would be more handier or not ?Since we are slowly stepping into the magic trinity direction ( druid healer cough) and got some tanky classes and high dmg classes.Also the ranger pet got taunt ? Does warrior will get taunt soon aswell for pve ?

As i said its a bit annoying over time.To enjoy your dmg by doing conditions or pure dmg or using a tanky build , but the amount of inc dmg is too much ,because i usually end up with 3-5 mobs at once :P and sadly even bunker down doesnt help or healing turret only for a few secs and some dodges until i ran out of some resources or anet beloved lags kills me :PSo now i ask all those mighty veterans out there for telling me how this aggro system works :P ? and if you think if it should need a overwork ? Because for me its kind of annoying (especially for stationary dps classes like ele) if the npcs randomly went to a player far far away , because it change it “thinking” that it switched from rangebased to dmgbased or otherwise?

Also ending up for being dead is kitten.It’s useless also , if dodges getting “vulnerable” means , if anet manage it to bug around with it, that it will be “useless” ?

Well whats your opinion ? and how do you think about how the aggro system works ? Any explaination ? And what about the idea to go further into the magic trinity :P ?

Greetings o/

Chazz

(sorry if this may sounds a bit confusing)

Aggro is supposed to be, in most cases, rather unpredictable, just like it was in GW1.

Allowing players to successfully predict aggro patterns leads to the complete obsolesence of survivability stats and abilities, and this is already a large problem for arenanet’s combat design.

Unpredictable aggro means you have to think on your feet in stead of being able to successfully predict the outcome of every fight, and thus end up in a boring and predictable tank&spank

Where anet wants aggro to be predictable (like the aetherpath ooze puzzle) they make it so, and make sure the players are aware exactly how it works. In most cases, however, you’re not actually supposed to know how it works, as it’s not a system they designed to be gamed. It’s a system they designed to be reacted to, and a large portion of GW2’s combat model is built around that primarily reactive rather than proactive design.

Well for me.I feel me trolled and annoyed a bit of it .Over time , because i mean why the kitten it stuck at me ? Do i have to camp on AA to reduce the risk to get aggro ? Also it seems like other ppls arent able to get the aggro back once im downed , which is … weird and kind of “ugh … why me ?….Yeah okay … kill me …kitten ”

For me it kills sometimes the fun , because its almost predictable , if i join a fractal or so , that i will be the first one , who will die.No matter what i do , because of too much dmg.Also i tried to use knight gear but even that didnt helped me a lot.So i join more or less dungeons and fractals with a feeling like:“I join.I wait.I attack.Aggro.Dead.Thanks…”Not really nice over time …

Doing things like rezzing people draws aggro. Maybe opening chests do also. You said you’re an engie. Were you using a shield? That draws aggro.

That first raid boss is definitely going for the highest toughness member, that’s for sure. And you are the one, because of wearing Rabid stats. We have exactly the same thing happened to us.

Just a flesh wound.3589:

Doing things like rezzing people draws aggro. Maybe opening chests do also. You said you’re an engie. Were you using a shield? That draws aggro.

No ,Sir … i was using rifle , if you want i can link you my build.Its full zerker for the moment , but i try to overwork it maybe with some knight trinkets or something like that.

Kyle.5931:

That first raid boss is definitely going for the highest toughness member, that’s for sure. And you are the one, because of wearing Rabid stats. We have exactly the same thing happened to us.

The last boss aswell , because i saw how they was attacking it and they were almost at the end at the circle , then i stepped in the circle and it went directly TO me without paying attention to the other ones.

Two things will commonly result in you getting consistent aggro:
Dealing more damage than anyone else;
Having better defense than anyone else.

On both my necro and guard (3k toughness/2500-3k power) things tend to stick to me as long as they’re alive.

Narrrz.7532:

Two things will commonly result in you getting consistent aggro:
Dealing more damage than anyone else;
Having better defense than anyone else.

On both my necro and guard (3k toughness/2500-3k power) things tend to stick to me as long as they’re alive.

Well … so true .. but im surprised that this happends over and over just TO me ? i mean that feels like everyone is doing autoattacks and spamming hbs or using no armor ? I dont know i mean how is this possible that I get the AGGRO of it ALMOST EVERYTIME ? … Its annoying and frustating to be downed for dealing “too much dmg” ? As engi i have more issues ,because of skill queques or my combos fields getting overwritten by other fields x.x …

Chazz.6709:

Narrrz.7532:

Two things will commonly result in you getting consistent aggro:
Dealing more damage than anyone else;
Having better defense than anyone else.

On both my necro and guard (3k toughness/2500-3k power) things tend to stick to me as long as they’re alive.

Well … so true .. but im surprised that this happends over and over just TO me ? i mean that feels like everyone is doing autoattacks and spamming hbs or using no armor ? I dont know i mean how is this possible that I get the AGGRO of it ALMOST EVERYTIME ? … Its annoying and frustating to be downed for dealing “too much dmg” ? As engi i have more issues ,because of skill queques or my combos fields getting overwritten by other fields x.x …

I feel you on the engi thing, with a minimally defensive build i seem to get a very great deal of monster hate. It’s especially noticeable on the Legendary Archdiviner at the end of cliffside, who will attack me pretty much to the exclusion of all else if i make even a moderate effort to maintain good condition stacks on him.

Narrrz.7532:

Chazz.6709:

Narrrz.7532:

Two things will commonly result in you getting consistent aggro:
Dealing more damage than anyone else;
Having better defense than anyone else.

On both my necro and guard (3k toughness/2500-3k power) things tend to stick to me as long as they’re alive.

Well … so true .. but im surprised that this happends over and over just TO me ? i mean that feels like everyone is doing autoattacks and spamming hbs or using no armor ? I dont know i mean how is this possible that I get the AGGRO of it ALMOST EVERYTIME ? … Its annoying and frustating to be downed for dealing “too much dmg” ? As engi i have more issues ,because of skill queques or my combos fields getting overwritten by other fields x.x …

I feel you on the engi thing, with a minimally defensive build i seem to get a very great deal of monster hate. It’s especially noticeable on the Legendary Archdiviner at the end of cliffside, who will attack me pretty much to the exclusion of all else if i make even a moderate effort to maintain good condition stacks on him.

Well … I love damage and i always love a class ,that can be everything and engi can be everything .I use two builds full rabid engi and full zerker engi , but doesnt matter which one i pick .I get the aggro so kittening quickly ,even if there is a warrior using his dumb HB over and over and wearing zerker or knight gear,even if there is an ele or so.All classes getting ignored or other players until im downed or dead.Im always the first one , who is downed or dead , because of “too much dmg”? or because i cant handle the amount of dmg.

Also the fun fact is … it is really noticeable in dungeons or fractals if im dead ( atleast i think so or have the feeling so) because they need way more longer to kill it even if they got elemantalist and so on.

I like to play engi.I like to support.I like to deal massive dmg, but i hate it to be “defenseless” against mobs , that aggro me ?It`s frustating as i said ,before and kinda ….“Ugh please … if i enter fractal or so … i get the aggro anyways.” I even tried to use ft aa the whole time.Nope got the aggro still … so even camping on AA doesnt help alot.It ruin my fun for fractals and dungeons quite a lot.

I even try to not play engi for dungeon or fractals , but sometimes even there im not save from those attacks or aggro <.< .For a while i was searching for the lowest dmg class in game … but nope still doesnt worked .

Every monster has a (sometimes individual) scripts that make it evaluate the situation over and over again to choose a target depending on many factors.
While very simple easy mode mobs usually just mainly go for targets in melee range with highest defense (toughness) first, there are also many many alternate behaviours to be found.
The patterns are not random (except where intentionally made so). But you will need to look very closely to find out how they work. Also since your character stats may be part of the target selection scheme there is the added intransparency that you cannot see in what relation your stats are compared to everyone else in the fight. Therefore things may be surprising once in a while.
When you are in a dungeon with a defined group you will easily find out the bosses’ attention patterns if you just retry them a few times while haveing your party switch equip stats and role behaviour. It is actually fun to find it out in case you like a little puzzling work.

Inverse.2967:

Every monster has a (sometimes individual) scripts that make it evaluate the situation over and over again to choose a target depending on many factors.
While very simple easy mode mobs usually just mainly go for targets in melee range with highest defense (toughness) first, there are also many many alternate behaviours to be found.
The patterns are not random (except where intentionally made so). But you will need to look very closely to find out how they work. Also since your character stats may be part of the target selection scheme there is the added intransparency that you cannot see in what relation your stats are compared to everyone else in the fight. Therefore things may be surprising once in a while.
When you are in a dungeon with a defined group you will easily find out the bosses’ attention patterns if you just retry them a few times while haveing your party switch equip stats and role behaviour. It is actually fun to find it out in case you like a little puzzling work.

Maybe i should try that once , but would be hard to convince some ppls for doing this .

It would seem that the biggest qualifier for aggro is “who hit me first?” AI has a bad habit of chasing that one person until it kills them. Not just downs, kills.
Sometimes I find that a knockback or launch skill will force the mob to re-evaluate its aggro, probably due to a sudden shift in distance.

Aggro does feel like it needs a rework, though.

normally mobs target the highest toughness, unless you are under leveled in which case they target you regardless. Some bosses have different rules though

Few things:

1) Vine attack from Thrashers is a massive ring AE (with medium minimum and large maximum radii). Everyone in the attack ring of this attack will get attacked, regardless of whether they have the aggro or not. If other players are within the minimum range, the attack will not hit them. If you are getting hit, either get in melee range of thrasher, or move really far away (fairly certain outer radius is at least 1500)

2) Toughness most certainly contributes to aggro. Which is one of the very few ways to control aggro in group environment.

3) If you are constantly dying, the only thing I can suggest is to pick your battles more carefully, and approach them more strategically. Or switch to one of the lower risk classes. Staff elementalist is amazing damage but squishy. Pick your fights. Stay out of easy reach, have defensive abilities up. Or switch to d/x and go crazy, that’s certainly won’t be a low mobility weapon set!

4) Overall GW2 aggro system is not as clear cut as some other games, but it’s something you get used to eventually. I am personally quite ok with the way it currently works.

Each enemy type has different agro behaviours.

Rauderi.8706:

It would seem that the biggest qualifier for aggro is “who hit me first?” AI has a bad habit of chasing that one person until it kills them. Not just downs, kills.
Sometimes I find that a knockback or launch skill will force the mob to re-evaluate its aggro, probably due to a sudden shift in distance.

Aggro does feel like it needs a rework, though.

Yeah sometimes i notice this aswell , if you hit them aswell.They getting really sticky and hunt you merciless until you are dead.

InsidiousWaffle.7086:

normally mobs target the highest toughness, unless you are under leveled in which case they target you regardless. Some bosses have different rules though

Oh really ? I thought they are more like “who did the most dmg on me ?” Or “Who hitted me first ?” or sometimes i feel like they switch aggro a lot of times,like so many “scripts” working at once , that the ai is more or less “confused” about what to do or who to attack first,which ends up in totally weird attacking.

Zania.8461:

Few things:

1) Vine attack from Thrashers is a massive ring AE (with medium minimum and large maximum radii). Everyone in the attack ring of this attack will get attacked, regardless of whether they have the aggro or not. If other players are within the minimum range, the attack will not hit them. If you are getting hit, either get in melee range of thrasher, or move really far away (fairly certain outer radius is at least 1500)

2) Toughness most certainly contributes to aggro. Which is one of the very few ways to control aggro in group environment.

3) If you are constantly dying, the only thing I can suggest is to pick your battles more carefully, and approach them more strategically. Or switch to one of the lower risk classes. Staff elementalist is amazing damage but squishy. Pick your fights. Stay out of easy reach, have defensive abilities up. Or switch to d/x and go crazy, that’s certainly won’t be a low mobility weapon set!

4) Overall GW2 aggro system is not as clear cut as some other games, but it’s something you get used to eventually. I am personally quite ok with the way it currently works.

1) Yeah i recognized that aswell.It feels quite annoying ,if 10 players or more fighting against the champ , but YOU the one , who get attacked , even , if you did nothing to it or it just stucked the whole time at my kitten without a break ,which was a bit weird to be honest.

2) Yeah some ppls say it , but wiki say ,that this is NOT true.( if i got it right.)Maybe its about rangebased and thats maybe , why it felt like this ?

3) I wont deny it , that i sometimes have some “bad” luck for example: I do a lot of sw and i kinda like it ,but well there is,where i also die quite a lot.A few example was :I was checking outside and fighting there near the gate.There was only a few mobs and it went pretty well , then i wanted to kill one of those slingers , but suddenly the next “wave” spawned and they was three teragriffs ( i still think their hitrange is bugged for some reason or asura have a big hitbox as norn , which is weird) and yeah got dashed 3 times in a row and was dead.Kind of annoying.
Next example was i was fighting INSIDE the fortress at red against some Teragriffs and trashers.They died and some menders and troll came , but i didnt notice , that the second gate from the “backside” of the fortress got destroyed and some enemies went in ,which got hitten by my aoe’s and attacked me until i was dead.
Other example i was fighting on the walls ,because being inside or outside of the fortress felt dangerous.So i was shooting with mortar around and killed a few ,until the wall got destroyed and i got more or less “warped” to the signal fire spot ,where those two AC’s was ,while at the same time.Some enemies went up for the player at the ac ,who was attacking them , but when they was up .They attacked me instead of the player with the AC and he didn’t paid attention to those , while i got defeated again.

So yeah … i would call that bad luck ? Or Anet really hates ! I rarely like to run outside of the fortress , but still i end up dead by stuff like those.Quite annoying over time.I know many peoples like to be afk and laying dead , but i want to kill stuff and not being dead regardless terminated by them.

4) I think i have to do the same and accept it ?While trying to do the best out of it.

emikochan.8504:

Each enemy type has different agro behaviours.

Isn’t that “abit annoying” ? I mean atleast for me it is ,because getting overruned by enemies or having a sticky monster on me is quite worst for me.I always want that those warriors in the frontline should keep their aggro so i can relax and do my dmg job ! cough They got HB for a reason lol

The Mordremoth in SW, whilst having the same aggro distance (from what I have seen at any rate), they have a much larger aggro leash* than any other place in GW2.

As for the Thrasher champ, if you find you have vines popping up, either kite backwards, so it gets distracted and re-engage, or strafe sideways, in which case it is possible to out run them (if you have at least 25% speed buff up).

Probably doesn’t relate to the OP but anyway here goes. If you are under the recommended level of a map, say level 60 on a level 80 map, you will draw aggro from creatures which would other wise ignore you at the same given distance.

(*Follow you much further before breaking aggro)

Chazz.6709:

emikochan.8504:

Each enemy type has different agro behaviours.

Isn’t that “abit annoying” ? I mean atleast for me it is ,because getting overruned by enemies or having a sticky monster on me is quite worst for me.I always want that those warriors in the frontline should keep their aggro so i can relax and do my dmg job ! cough They got HB for a reason lol

I would say quite the opposite, I mena just look at all those old trinity based games:
Big mob sticks to 1 or a few tanks, somtimes random pap hits the group… over and over and over … again… playing like gum stuck under your feet compared to the dynamic of GW2’s enemies.

Shadey Dancer.2907:

The Mordremoth in SW, whilst having the same aggro distance (from what I have seen at any rate), they have a much larger aggro leash* than any other place in GW2.

As for the Thrasher champ, if you find you have vines popping up, either kite backwards, so it gets distracted and re-engage, or strafe sideways, in which case it is possible to out run them (if you have at least 25% speed buff up).

Probably doesn’t relate to the OP but anyway here goes. If you are under the recommended level of a map, say level 60 on a level 80 map, you will draw aggro from creatures which would other wise ignore you at the same given distance.

(*Follow you much further before breaking aggro)

I wish you would run as fast as you ran forward , if you run backwards , but nope … and thats what i always forget , which kills me sometimes and to get the “aggro” away … cost some time still for me ,where i end up downed or dead.

And yeah about that theory with more aggro ,if you are underleveled feels so true.They are really sticky to you then.

Sometimes i really hate those trashers and want to punch this developer , who created them … Just sometimes … they can screw up so many things at once.

Inverse.2967:

Chazz.6709:

emikochan.8504:

Each enemy type has different agro behaviours.

Isn’t that “abit annoying” ? I mean atleast for me it is ,because getting overruned by enemies or having a sticky monster on me is quite worst for me.I always want that those warriors in the frontline should keep their aggro so i can relax and do my dmg job ! cough They got HB for a reason lol

I would say quite the opposite, I mena just look at all those old trinity based games:
Big mob sticks to 1 or a few tanks, somtimes random pap hits the group… over and over and over … again… playing like gum stuck under your feet compared to the dynamic of GW2’s enemies.

Well , but ranger pets got aggro skills aswell , well taunt skills . So it maybe the first step as i mentioned , that the magic trinity is slowly coming to guild wars 2.

Also i have to say.I played alot of games ,where was alot of magic trinity and just Tank ,DD and healer a role.So i usually “enjoyed” it , but since i play gw2 .I feel a lot of diffrence ,compared to other games,which is somehow good , but sometimes just UGH ! WHY !? … I think maybe i have to find the lowest dmg build possible + a build with high sustain , but thats still fun for me to play.

Aggro mechanics in GW2 are similar to every other game except that it’s not consistent across foes and the weighting is different. As in other games, these are the types of things that the AI considers:

• Closest foe
• Currently-attacking foe
• Most damaging foe.
• Lowest-health foe
• Lowest-armor foe.
• Clustered foes
• In-range
• Underleveled-foes (e.g. L60 in an L80 zone)

However, not all foes consider each of these to be equally important. Lower-level and less-than-veteran foes tend to focus on closest targets; bosses (especially Mai Trin) tend to consider weakest targets and (for some attacks) the farthest.

Consequently, a lot of people are left with the impression there’s no aggro or that it’s random or entirely unpredictable. It’s none of that; it’s just that most of us can’t be bothered to run enough controlled experiments on the same foe/foe types to figure out the priorities for each situation.

Chazz.6709:

Kyle.5931:

That first raid boss is definitely going for the highest toughness member, that’s for sure. And you are the one, because of wearing Rabid stats. We have exactly the same thing happened to us.

The last boss aswell , because i saw how they was attacking it and they were almost at the end at the circle , then i stepped in the circle and it went directly TO me without paying attention to the other ones.

Oh you fought the Last Raid Boss? Tell me, how are the Mechanics? How do you fight him, and who is the last Boss?

Illconceived Was Na.9781:

Aggro mechanics in GW2 are similar to every other game except that it’s not consistent across foes and the weighting is different. As in other games, these are the types of things that the AI considers:

• Closest foe
• Currently-attacking foe
• Most damaging foe.
• Lowest-health foe
• Lowest-armor foe.
• Clustered foes
• In-range
• Underleveled-foes (e.g. L60 in an L80 zone)

However, not all foes consider each of these to be equally important. Lower-level and less-than-veteran foes tend to focus on closest targets; bosses (especially Mai Trin) tend to consider weakest targets and (for some attacks) the farthest.

Consequently, a lot of people are left with the impression there’s no aggro or that it’s random or entirely unpredictable. It’s none of that; it’s just that most of us can’t be bothered to run enough controlled experiments on the same foe/foe types to figure out the priorities for each situation.

True , but some peoples things the game hates engineers way too much !

Yeah i notice that on mai trin aswell and i dont really think its random.I think sometimes the dmg is the reason maybe , why it switch his aggro quite alot.For example the husk champion in sw.He is switching quite alot between players.

Walhalla.5473:

Chazz.6709:

Kyle.5931:

That first raid boss is definitely going for the highest toughness member, that’s for sure. And you are the one, because of wearing Rabid stats. We have exactly the same thing happened to us.

The last boss aswell , because i saw how they was attacking it and they were almost at the end at the circle , then i stepped in the circle and it went directly TO me without paying attention to the other ones.

Oh you fought the Last Raid Boss? Tell me, how are the Mechanics? How do you fight him, and who is the last Boss?

Well … he is a mix between all those 3 mini bosses , before with some “cheap” instantkill mechanics.Also you need to be orgikittened for it and also you need to have luck , because there spawn circles on the ground ,where atleast have to stay 4 ppls inside of it or massive dmg or wipe,which is a real cheap mechanic in my opinion.Also they spawn sometimes waaay to far away , that is almost impossible to reach.So we didnt suceed we failed , because of pug , but well we manage it to get him down to 66% , where he split into those 3 mini bosses ,before , which need to be killed by “groups” otherwise you will gain 4,5 k dmg each 3 sec!And you have to stay far away from eachother.So mesmer , condi and some pure dmg classes are recommend.

Proximity to target, toughness (not just armour value) and ressing are all high-priority aggro magnets. For example, Mai Trin will always aggro anyone who tries to res a downed player, no matter what the other members of the party do- she will make that player stop ressing by killing them.

The mordrem teragriffs have a wide hitbox- it extends a little past the sides of their claws when they charge and it’s very easy to be downed by them.

I like that the aggro mechanics in this game are obscure; it takes away from the trinity style of playing.