Guild Wars 2

No offense with this reply to you OP, so please don’t take this as a personal attack, ect.

What I get from your post is that you DO NOT want to work for anything, because to you working towards gear/items ect. = grind/treadmilling.

You want to be able to login and have fun, having things given to you because of my previous statement.

You feel very reluctant to spend any time gaining karma or spending your laurels because the fear of ANet putting in different or better gear will render your karma/laurel items/gear less effective.

I again meant not offense with my reply, it just seems like you want to login and have fun and put NO work into it because it will just end in you being outdone or outclassed later on.

Best of luck, and I hope my harshness wasn’t enough to push you over the edge.

Odokuro.5049:

No offense with this reply to you OP, so please don’t take this as a personal attack, ect.

What I get from your post is that you DO NOT want to work for anything, because to you working towards gear/items ect. = grind/treadmilling.

You want to be able to login and have fun, having things given to you because of my previous statement.

You feel very reluctant to spend any time gaining karma or spending your laurels because the fear of ANet putting in different or better gear will render your karma/laurel items/gear less effective.

I again meant not offense with my reply, it just seems like you want to login and have fun and put NO work into it because it will just end in you being outdone or outclassed later on.

Best of luck, and I hope my harshness wasn’t enough to push you over the edge.

Work? This is a game.

I want to spend time getting better at the professions I enjoy playing rather than spending time getting gear so I can compete. Is that so terrible?

Just playing the game you should easily be able to gather materials to make ascended stuff.

Also just playing the game you’ll get a lot of laurels via AP chests. Also in those ap chests you’ll get more badges (it’s around 3000 badges for 8000 ap) than you know what to do with that you can also use to buy ascended stuff.

If you’re looking at laurels as the only way to get ascended accessories then you need to rethink your play strategy a bit.

This is not just a game it’s an MMO. In an MMO you must work, do chores, strive, stand around bored for an hour waiting for Teq, buy gems, envy those with better luck than you, and above all you must grind. What does fun have to do with it?

Apparently you don’t understand the kind of game you are playing.

/sarcasm

You are too attached to your karma and laurels. Learn to let go.

If they implement new stuff, you’ll see what you an get at that point. Que sera, sera.

Why do you need ascended items/Legendaries, the entire game can be finished in greens, WvW you can do with exotics and PvP doesn’t require any of above.

You think you need the items, but those items are harder to get because it’s meant for people who want to grind a little bit (Take it from the guy whith 1 asended ring and 1 legendary…)

Dark Catalyst.1028:

1. I will probably never have a legendary, now that you’ve nerfed karma. I toyed with the idea pre nerf, but imagine my surprise when I started getting karma vials from completing dailies a few days after I spent most of my karma on temple armor. I will not grind 2000+ events and/or dungeons. I left that other MMO precisely because of this type of treadmill/grind.

2. I will never have ascended trinkets. I’m sitting on 62 laurels, but I am loath to spend them because I have multiple characters and I never know what wonderful changes you will implement next. I don’t want to be caught in a situation like I was with karma points, where I spend most of laurels and then you implement some change that makes them more difficult to get or they become necessary to obtain even better items. In addition to this, I only do dailies if they correspond to whatever I’m doing that day. I don’t log in to do chores, ANet.

3. I will never have ascended weapons. That is, unless the required mats build up in my bags through daily activity and leveling crafting isn’t cost prohibitive. As it stands now, leveling that one crafting discipline is cost prohibitive for me.

4. I will never have ascended armor, for reasons stated in point 3.

5. And because of 1-4, I will never participate in WvW because being at a constant disadvantage when playing against other people isn’t fun.

I log in to have fun, ANet. Not to do daily chores, not to grind, not to chase more powerful, and required gear…I log in to have fun. When I bought your game, you led me to the impression that the best gear would be easy to get at level 80, so I could spend my time doing whatever I wanted. Looks like I was wrong.

Has your philosophy regarding the type of player you’d like to retain, changed as well?

It doesn’t seem like MMO’s fit you — try another style of game because <<O=grinding something ALWAYS, that’s half the fun for many.

Hi Dark,
first of all I must agree with you about the Karma thing. Karma became in these weeks the new “legendary” currency and it’s so terrible to gain that we all get bored of farmed contents and events. For a legendary, it’s still difficult to get all the rest and I was very in difficult to farm my last 70k of karma these days to get my bolt. I was on thinking to go for Sunrise next but since I work and have lot of things to think about, I think I’ll give up, especially cause of karma. T6 mats, lodestones, ectos and such things are already a hard work but Mystic Clovers and 250 obsidians are hell.

Second thing I just want to say is that you don’t need ascended trinkets/weapons anywhere but Fractal of the Mist (which is, for me, the last thing to have fun with in GW2).
I like WvW and the best and funniest time I had there were with my low alts with masterwork (green) armors.
None, nowhere (FotM bleh), will ask you if you’re full ascended to do anything. You just have to think what you want from the game. You want to be the best? You’ll have to work VERY hard and it’s not supposed to be much funny.
Or, maybe, do like me and take your time to get your objectives and try to find a great group.
You can afford every pieces of armor/trinkets that you want with dedication and patience. But be sure that probably you won’t be any happier

Dark Catalyst.1028:

Odokuro.5049:

No offense with this reply to you OP, so please don’t take this as a personal attack, ect.

What I get from your post is that you DO NOT want to work for anything, because to you working towards gear/items ect. = grind/treadmilling.

You want to be able to login and have fun, having things given to you because of my previous statement.

You feel very reluctant to spend any time gaining karma or spending your laurels because the fear of ANet putting in different or better gear will render your karma/laurel items/gear less effective.

I again meant not offense with my reply, it just seems like you want to login and have fun and put NO work into it because it will just end in you being outdone or outclassed later on.

Best of luck, and I hope my harshness wasn’t enough to push you over the edge.

Work? This is a game.

I want to spend time getting better at the professions I enjoy playing rather than spending time getting gear so I can compete. Is that so terrible?

True very true, this is a game.

But to get the most out of your professions, wouldn’t you want great gears, and items?

I do get what your saying, you want to play to have fun and not to compete with the masses, which you can do already, I think you have fallen victim to the “elitist” mentality which is a big part of any game.

Also, not knowing how often you play, but someone casual should be able to once they hit 80 equip themselves with exotics within a week or so, heck exotics aren’t even required to play in the end-game content, I’ve had several friends go full masterworks as odd as that sounds.

Besides WvW and getting into PuG Dungeon runs gear really doesn’t have to be the best of the best, and there’s guilds out there that share your same mentality on login and have fun, and I am willing to bet that if you ask, they could help you get gear if your the type to accept help that is.

I hope you continue to have fun, and just play it how you want, don’t pay attention to the elitists or supposed pushing towards one playstyle.

Best of luck.

You don’t want to do events, you don’t want to do wvw, you don’t farm since getting an ascended weapon seems too much of a hassle for you, and you obviously aren’t an spvp guy since you’re complaining about gear grind, and you obviously don’t do fractals/guild missions since you thought the only way of getting ascended items was through laurels, you also don’t do dungeons since getting an ascended weapon isn’t one of your goals, then what the kitten do you do in this game?

Coffee.7058:

Dark Catalyst.1028:

1. I will probably never have a legendary, now that you’ve nerfed karma. I toyed with the idea pre nerf, but imagine my surprise when I started getting karma vials from completing dailies a few days after I spent most of my karma on temple armor. I will not grind 2000+ events and/or dungeons. I left that other MMO precisely because of this type of treadmill/grind.

2. I will never have ascended trinkets. I’m sitting on 62 laurels, but I am loath to spend them because I have multiple characters and I never know what wonderful changes you will implement next. I don’t want to be caught in a situation like I was with karma points, where I spend most of laurels and then you implement some change that makes them more difficult to get or they become necessary to obtain even better items. In addition to this, I only do dailies if they correspond to whatever I’m doing that day. I don’t log in to do chores, ANet.

3. I will never have ascended weapons. That is, unless the required mats build up in my bags through daily activity and leveling crafting isn’t cost prohibitive. As it stands now, leveling that one crafting discipline is cost prohibitive for me.

4. I will never have ascended armor, for reasons stated in point 3.

5. And because of 1-4, I will never participate in WvW because being at a constant disadvantage when playing against other people isn’t fun.

I log in to have fun, ANet. Not to do daily chores, not to grind, not to chase more powerful, and required gear…I log in to have fun. When I bought your game, you led me to the impression that the best gear would be easy to get at level 80, so I could spend my time doing whatever I wanted. Looks like I was wrong.

Has your philosophy regarding the type of player you’d like to retain, changed as well?

It doesn’t seem like MMO’s fit you — try another style of game because <<O=grinding something ALWAYS, that’s half the fun for many.

Bullcrap, it’s a Massive Multiplayer Online Role-Playing Game. It is an RPG, within a massive world of other RPers, nothing more, there is no requirement for grind or farming for the genre to apply.

Conncept.7638:

Coffee.7058:

Dark Catalyst.1028:

1. I will probably never have a legendary, now that you’ve nerfed karma. I toyed with the idea pre nerf, but imagine my surprise when I started getting karma vials from completing dailies a few days after I spent most of my karma on temple armor. I will not grind 2000+ events and/or dungeons. I left that other MMO precisely because of this type of treadmill/grind.

2. I will never have ascended trinkets. I’m sitting on 62 laurels, but I am loath to spend them because I have multiple characters and I never know what wonderful changes you will implement next. I don’t want to be caught in a situation like I was with karma points, where I spend most of laurels and then you implement some change that makes them more difficult to get or they become necessary to obtain even better items. In addition to this, I only do dailies if they correspond to whatever I’m doing that day. I don’t log in to do chores, ANet.

3. I will never have ascended weapons. That is, unless the required mats build up in my bags through daily activity and leveling crafting isn’t cost prohibitive. As it stands now, leveling that one crafting discipline is cost prohibitive for me.

4. I will never have ascended armor, for reasons stated in point 3.

5. And because of 1-4, I will never participate in WvW because being at a constant disadvantage when playing against other people isn’t fun.

I log in to have fun, ANet. Not to do daily chores, not to grind, not to chase more powerful, and required gear…I log in to have fun. When I bought your game, you led me to the impression that the best gear would be easy to get at level 80, so I could spend my time doing whatever I wanted. Looks like I was wrong.

Has your philosophy regarding the type of player you’d like to retain, changed as well?

It doesn’t seem like MMO’s fit you — try another style of game because <<O=grinding something ALWAYS, that’s half the fun for many.

Bullcrap, it’s a Massive Multiplayer Online Role-Playing Game. It is an RPG, within a massive world of other RPers, nothing more, there is no requirement for grind or farming for the genre to apply.

mmo
Web definitions
A massively multiplayer online game. A computer game in which a large number of players can simultaneously interact in a persistent world; A massively multiplayer online role-playing game

Coffee.7058:

It doesn’t seem like MMO’s fit you — try another style of game because <<O=grinding something ALWAYS, that’s half the fun for many.

I would disagree. There’s no real need for grind in MMOs and that’s why MMOs now try to minimize that. Speaking about that though GW2 is very not grindy.
I, myself, never thought that I could ever afford a legendary. Saved up some money. Started working towards what I called “a poor man’s legendary”. Took me about 3 months. Because I didn’t buy everything at once I did not even notice how much money I’ve spent. In those 3 months I probably got and spent about 500-600 gold. You CAN get it. Just focus on it and work towards it.
Speaking about that though I do disagree with the karma nerf. For one thing now you get zero karma for running dungeons and that’s the exact activity that I enjoy participating in.

Odokuro.5049:

What I get from your post is that you DO NOT want to work for anything

YES

What exactly is the attraction of having a second job you have to pay for?

In fact, isn’t this the biggest promise Guild Wars 2 rode into the spotlight on its shiny white stallion? That it wouldn’t be like other MMOs?That it wouldn’t be a grind? That it wouldn’t be “work”? That it would be simply “fun”?

This shouldn’t be a second job. It’s absurd. It shouldn’t require “work”. It’s a GAME. For PLAYING. For FUN.

Just spend your laurels. MMOs are always changing, what you have today might be useless in two years anyway. Pick a character and build you play most and buy the ascended trinkets, spend the karma how you like. Especially karma has such a low “use” ceiling, if you keep playing it will pile up again.

Draco.2806:

Odokuro.5049:

What I get from your post is that you DO NOT want to work for anything

YES

What exactly is the attraction of having a second job you have to pay for?

In fact, isn’t this the biggest promise Guild Wars 2 rode into the spotlight on its shiny white stallion? That it wouldn’t be like other MMOs?That it wouldn’t be a grind? That it wouldn’t be “work”? That it would be simply “fun”?

This shouldn’t be a second job. It’s absurd. It shouldn’t require “work”. It’s a GAME. For PLAYING. For FUN.

That is how the game was sold to me from the material I read before I purchased it last year. But sadly, it seems like ANet changed their philosophy and it’s becoming more like other MMOs.

I do stuff in game. I do most events I come across, I’m trying to get into dungeons, and I wanted to get into WvW. But again, what fun is it to play against people who have at the very least, a 15% advantage with ascended trinkets and weapon? That’ll get worse with ascended armor. And what did they do to “earn” that advantage? They had more time to blow grinding than I did.

Draco.2806:

Odokuro.5049:

What I get from your post is that you DO NOT want to work for anything

YES

What exactly is the attraction of having a second job you have to pay for?

In fact, isn’t this the biggest promise Guild Wars 2 rode into the spotlight on its shiny white stallion? That it wouldn’t be like other MMOs?That it wouldn’t be a grind? That it wouldn’t be “work”? That it would be simply “fun”?

This shouldn’t be a second job. It’s absurd. It shouldn’t require “work”. It’s a GAME. For PLAYING. For FUN.

Actually, you iust huy the game and content is free….

What do you do in the game? Cause all i see is you are holding yourself back anyway without spending laurels. Get the accessories, buy some dyes, get t6 mats.
I honestly dont get the wvw debate. Anet said wvw will never be balanced with classes involved. So why do people want the gear to be balanced?

Draco.2806:

Odokuro.5049:

What I get from your post is that you DO NOT want to work for anything

YES

What exactly is the attraction of having a second job you have to pay for?

In fact, isn’t this the biggest promise Guild Wars 2 rode into the spotlight on its shiny white stallion? That it wouldn’t be like other MMOs?That it wouldn’t be a grind? That it wouldn’t be “work”? That it would be simply “fun”?

This shouldn’t be a second job. It’s absurd. It shouldn’t require “work”. It’s a GAME. For PLAYING. For FUN.

“Work” in this case means “overcoming a challenge”.

There are many ways to “work” for things in games, so that word should be used with caution.

i agree completely with OP.

also i might add that this kind of mentality from people that answered hit thread is what got gw2 to where it is. i wonder why anets response about this wasn’t the same as in wvw forum…

https://dviw3bl0enbyw.cloudfront.net/uploads/forum_attachment/file/106138/I4E780N.jpg

Exactly why, with my limited playtime and off-peak online schedule, I’m always hiding in Heart of the Mists. I don’t have the hours to grind for gear and I don’t have the money from running dungeons/fractals/WvW xp trains.
Mind you, I already find this game very easily accessible. There were no itemlevels to meet, and you get free exotics from dungeons. I just don’t have the time or a best liked class I wanted to commit to.
I know I can get to 80 eventually and I know how to get things if I wanted a piece of gear, but I also understand that if I don’t put effort into equipping myself, I don’t deserve to be at the same level of geared-ness as those who put in all their time to achieve the best they can.
GW2 gave the impression that it had no grind, but the truth is, a large proportion of the players came here for the grind as a competition mechanism. Gear stats progression happened over a year’s period and finally came ascended weapons, and to be honest I thought it was slow for an MMO. GW2 did have a lot of sidetracks, with the live events and all, giving a lot of skins and titles and loot, and I think they are trying very hard to make this as non-vertical as possible but also maintaining a competitive player-base that is satisfied with their achievement levels. Over other people. Specifically.
I am content with just guild chat streaming in the background while I do menial things. How I play MMOs… however, I understand for the majority that is not what they came for.

Draco.2806:

What exactly is the attraction of having a second job you have to pay for?

In fact, isn’t this the biggest promise Guild Wars 2 rode into the spotlight on its shiny white stallion? That it wouldn’t be like other MMOs?That it wouldn’t be a grind? That it wouldn’t be “work”? That it would be simply “fun”?

A-Net said that GW2 was going to exactly like GW when it came to gear grind – NONE. With the addition of the Ascended gear/items they broke that promise. I played GW from release all the way through EotN and never once did I have to worry about gear grind. The only thing that was different when it came to armors were how they looked. Just like it was with the Dungeon Armors at GW2 release.

I dunno as far as GW1 is concerned … getting my first character through the story and equipped took longer then it took in GW2. The characters after that with ready ressources are easier/faster in both games. The only difference is that they added ascended a few months after release. As long as it stays at that tier for the next decade I think it is no big deal.

Dark Catalyst.1028:

Odokuro.5049:

No offense with this reply to you OP, so please don’t take this as a personal attack, ect.

What I get from your post is that you DO NOT want to work for anything, because to you working towards gear/items ect. = grind/treadmilling.

You want to be able to login and have fun, having things given to you because of my previous statement.

You feel very reluctant to spend any time gaining karma or spending your laurels because the fear of ANet putting in different or better gear will render your karma/laurel items/gear less effective.

I again meant not offense with my reply, it just seems like you want to login and have fun and put NO work into it because it will just end in you being outdone or outclassed later on.

Best of luck, and I hope my harshness wasn’t enough to push you over the edge.

Work? This is a game.

I want to spend time getting better at the professions I enjoy playing rather than spending time getting gear so I can compete. Is that so terrible?

sPvP if you want to work on professions and compete.

WvW competition…. LOL please. Whoever has the bigger zerg wins.

This is how games become to easy and people lose interest, when people who play casually to very casually complain that it takes more than what they consider to be a reasonable time frame to complete things such as ascended gear, legenderies, ect. They have a fit and complain the game has too much of a grind or takes too much work, we all want to have fun, we all want to just login and go and play and hoot and hollar, ect. But it games like this one all good things come in time and work, it gives a better sense of accomplishment atleast to me when I actually feel like hey I put in playtime and such to get this item/gear or to this level or get this achievement completed ect, how boring would it be if you logged on and ding you was level 80, best gear in the game, everything was unlocked, every achievement of any type was completed, ect. It would be dull, boring, and mindnumbingly unchallenging to play and I would just go elsewhere.

I love what ANet has given us, and the attention they give to the game to improve it for us is great, if you don’t want to work for it, that’s your problem, but don’t act like its SO hard and get this game turned into something so kitten easy that no-one besides the ones who want free handouts would play it.

/ End Rant

Best of luck….

The content may be free, but my time isn’t. If I am giving a game an hour of my time then what I receive needs to be worth an hour of my time.

Many games fail to deliver at this point. This is why so many games are never finished by players. What I’ve gotten so far is worth the money I’ve spent, but they are still asking for my time and, frankly, my support in the gem store.

Free is not an excuse.

I don’t want anything for “free”.

And I don’t mind putting in effort…if it’s challenging and fun. Grinding for points and materials is not challenging, it’s tedious. And we should expect better than that.

How much more meaningful would a legendary, or even ascended weapon be, if you could say: “I did challenging tasks a,b,c, etc. and gathered a few rare mats from dangerous areas x, y, z, etc.” rather than “I did 2000 simple events to get the karma points I needed for my legendary, in addition to spending some gold.”?

If anything, the second scenario is a handout. It’s dull, not challenging and all it requires is that you be present and marginally competent. And it’s what we currently get in the game. Just show up enough times and you’ll get your legendary.

Great question! I don’t think you and I are what they are looking for. this game is not fun and they’ve gone back on everything they’ve said. the naysayers can come in here and spin until they are dizzy but they can’t deny the facts. It’s sad! They turned this game into exactly what they said it wouldn’t be. An instance focused 1 button pressing grind system for the next level of gear!

Dark Catalyst.1028:

1. I will probably never have a legendary, now that you’ve nerfed karma. I toyed with the idea pre nerf, but imagine my surprise when I started getting karma vials from completing dailies a few days after I spent most of my karma on temple armor. I will not grind 2000+ events and/or dungeons. I left that other MMO precisely because of this type of treadmill/grind.

2. I will never have ascended trinkets. I’m sitting on 62 laurels, but I am loath to spend them because I have multiple characters and I never know what wonderful changes you will implement next. I don’t want to be caught in a situation like I was with karma points, where I spend most of laurels and then you implement some change that makes them more difficult to get or they become necessary to obtain even better items. In addition to this, I only do dailies if they correspond to whatever I’m doing that day. I don’t log in to do chores, ANet.

3. I will never have ascended weapons. That is, unless the required mats build up in my bags through daily activity and leveling crafting isn’t cost prohibitive. As it stands now, leveling that one crafting discipline is cost prohibitive for me.

4. I will never have ascended armor, for reasons stated in point 3.

5. And because of 1-4, I will never participate in WvW because being at a constant disadvantage when playing against other people isn’t fun.

I log in to have fun, ANet. Not to do daily chores, not to grind, not to chase more powerful, and required gear…I log in to have fun. When I bought your game, you led me to the impression that the best gear would be easy to get at level 80, so I could spend my time doing whatever I wanted. Looks like I was wrong.

Has your philosophy regarding the type of player you’d like to retain, changed as well?

Dark Catalyst.1028:

I don’t want anything for “free”.

And I don’t mind putting in effort…if it’s challenging and fun. Grinding for points and materials is not challenging, it’s tedious. And we should expect better than that.

How much more meaningful would a legendary, or even ascended weapon be, if you could say: “I did challenging tasks a,b,c, etc. and gathered a few rare mats from dangerous areas x, y, z, etc.” rather than “I did 2000 simple events to get the karma points I needed for my legendary, in addition to spending some gold.”?

If anything, the second scenario is a handout. It’s dull, not challenging and all it requires is that you be present and marginally competent. And it’s what we currently get in the game. Just show up enough times and you’ll get your legendary.

Understandable, I agree it’s tedious that’s one of the reasons I haven’t gotten a legendary, infact any mats I get or items to try to MForge into a precurser, I give away to friends/guildies or sell on the TP.

I agree time spent in-game and what you get for your time should feel equal, I believe that maybe more routes to getting a legendary should be put in play, but you are forging items into a legendary item afterall, hence the mats.

Again any of the responses I posted where not intended to be seen as an attack or harsh in anyway, I just seem to express myself that way sometimes, lol…

I agree and disagree with the OP.

He does sound like he is one of those “please hand me everything for free, no work required”..entitelements, etc.

But at the same time, the whole purpose of the thread is to illustrate the fact that yet another customer fell to the bait and switch. He bought Colin J’s line of “At max level we want everyone to be on equal footing”(not quoted verbatim) and is now upset. I totally hear his point.

cesmode.4257:

I agree and disagree with the OP.

He does sound like he is one of those “please hand me everything for free, no work required”..entitelements, etc.

But at the same time, the whole purpose of the thread is to illustrate the fact that yet another customer fell to the bait and switch. He bought Colin J’s line of “At max level we want everyone to be on equal footing”(not quoted verbatim) and is now upset. I totally hear his point.

I just want to know, what content is he unable to do because he doesnt have ascended gear?

I don’t really get people being upset about ascended weapons, I mean seriously, those 20 extra points doesn’t really make any difference. If you have full ascended trinkets it makes you better than someone with ascended weapons, and it’s a lot cheaper….

I never said I wanted things for free. In GW you still had to work to get a certain look for your armor and weapons. But all the Lvl 20 armor and weapons were identical in stats just different looking. And 90% of Cantha was LvL 20 areas and 60% of Elona was lvl 20 making most of those games End-Game.

There’s nothing saying you won’t have to work for things, just that the stats are the same. Hell, I STILL don’t have any Obsidian Armor on any of my 8 toons in GW because you needed a good 8-man group to do both UW and FoW to farm the mats. That doesn’t mean that I didn’t have fun in GW, just that I didn’t have ALL the looks.

Dark Catalyst.1028:

Draco.2806:

Odokuro.5049:

What I get from your post is that you DO NOT want to work for anything

YES

What exactly is the attraction of having a second job you have to pay for?

In fact, isn’t this the biggest promise Guild Wars 2 rode into the spotlight on its shiny white stallion? That it wouldn’t be like other MMOs?That it wouldn’t be a grind? That it wouldn’t be “work”? That it would be simply “fun”?

This shouldn’t be a second job. It’s absurd. It shouldn’t require “work”. It’s a GAME. For PLAYING. For FUN.

That is how the game was sold to me from the material I read before I purchased it last year. But sadly, it seems like ANet changed their philosophy and it’s becoming more like other MMOs.

I do stuff in game. I do most events I come across, I’m trying to get into dungeons, and I wanted to get into WvW. But again, what fun is it to play against people who have at the very least, a 15% advantage with ascended trinkets and weapon? That’ll get worse with ascended armor. And what did they do to “earn” that advantage? They had more time to blow grinding than I did.

False. You don’t need to go out of your way to get ascended anything. Just play the game and you’ll get it eventually.

The only problem with ascended is that people think they should be able to get it all in 1 day.

Bismuth.3165:

I don’t really get people being upset about ascended weapons, I mean seriously, those 20 extra points doesn’t really make any difference. If you have full ascended trinkets it makes you better than someone with ascended weapons, and it’s a lot cheaper….

Weapon Dmg is probably by far the most important stat, an extra 100 weapon dmg is huge compared to some small stat gains.

A year ago this was the game for us:
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/index.php?title=Is_it_fun

Now its just another MMO catering to WoW players with “progression”, “shinies” and grind because these people are too narrow minded and wont accept any MMO without these things.

Not that the devs ll ever speak of this.

Bismuth.3165:

I don’t really get people being upset about ascended weapons, I mean seriously, those 20 extra points doesn’t really make any difference. If you have full ascended trinkets it makes you better than someone with ascended weapons, and it’s a lot cheaper….

The reason people are upset about the ascended tier is what it represents. If I log into GW1 right now, I can equip the same armor and weapons I bought a month into the game eight years ago and it will still be the best in game gear. I played that game for six years pretty consistently, bought more aesthetic armor and weapons then I care to count, despite not having a gear grind. Right now I would be surprised if I last two years in GW2, precisely because of the gear grind.

So they’ve added one additional level of gear. Big deal right? The concern we have is what it represents. It’s the broken promise and a dramatic shift from GW1. It’s the inevitable power creep that will eventually make ascended required as harder content is added to match the increased power. Which will then make any power boost to the ascended tier useless, which in turn demands another tier.

Oh, but Anet said they probably won’t add another tier? They’ve already broken one promise on this very subject, how are we supposed to trust them when the content locusts start demanding another tier and harder content to satisfy that tier? When asked if another tier would be added we were told “I hope not.” That isn’t a denial, that’s a recognition that Anet has become slave to a very vocal minority that demands a gear treadmill, that wants to turn Guild Wars into every other MMO in the market. They want to turn it into a Skinner Box. No thank you.

You say then MMOs are not for me? I say the reason MMOs are the way they are is because of laziness and a reliance on addictive content over interesting content. Sure I could have a more rewarding experience playing a Single Player game, but that’s the problem, it’s single player. I want a game I can enjoy with my wife. GW1 used to be that game. I hoped GW2 would too. But I’m not interested in gear treadmills. I want a world to explore and a story to experience. I want to role play and I want engaging combat. New tiers of gear, mindless crafting and gathering, endless grinding… these are all reasons I did not play WOW or any other MMO before it.

If you don’t understand what I’m talking about with Skinner Boxes, this is what I mean:

http://www.cracked.com/article_18461_5-creepy-ways-video-games-are-trying-to-get-you-addicted.html

http://www.penny-arcade.com/patv/episode/the-skinner-box

Where did they ever say they would never add new armor tiers right from the start?

I followed news of GW2 pretty closely before it came out and I don’t remember them saying anywhere that what the game launched with as far as equipment tiers go would be what we’d have forever.

I think a lot of people assumed that would be the case because of GW1 but assumptions do not equate to broken promises.

They explained why they did what they did and it was 100% needed. All of a sudden we have use for the hundreds of thousands of low to mid level crafting materials that literally served no purpose other than leveling up crafting professions before. They also said they had no plans to add more.

I’m not seeing how it’s a problem if you’re actually interested in playing the game and aren’t impatient.

fellyn.5083:

False. You don’t need to go out of your way to get ascended anything. Just play the game and you’ll get it eventually.

The only problem with ascended is that people think they should be able to get it all in 1 day.

For the sake of argument let’s just overlook the massive quantities of materials you need just to level crafting to 500 and focus on the Ascended drops only.

Bloodstone dust is certainly all over the place. Lots of us are just tossing it out by now, but Empyreal shards and Dragonite ore on the other hand….You have to take part in specific types of content to get it.

Dragonite in particular is a pain, because it’s only available from bosses that spawn on a timer, and often in pitifully small amounts (I got 4 from Maw today). And of course keeping up with these events requires the use of 3rd party sites, as there’s no in-game notification.

I do agree we were a bit spoiled with Exotics though. The relative ease with which even casual players could get max level gear with good stats has really done a lot to alter our expectations.

Lol, so much for gw2 being the next generation mmo by avoiding gear grinds like wow.

Jahroots.6791:

fellyn.5083:

False. You don’t need to go out of your way to get ascended anything. Just play the game and you’ll get it eventually.

The only problem with ascended is that people think they should be able to get it all in 1 day.

For the sake of argument let’s just overlook the massive quantities of materials you need just to level crafting to 500 and focus on the Ascended drops only.

Bloodstone dust is certainly all over the place. Lots of us are just tossing it out by now, but Empyreal shards and Dragonite ore on the other hand….You have to take part in specific types of content to get it.

Dragonite in particular is a pain, because it’s only available from bosses that spawn on a timer, and often in pitifully small amounts (I got 4 from Maw today). And of course keeping up with these events requires the use of 3rd party sites, as there’s no in-game notification.

I do agree we were a bit spoiled with Exotics though. The relative ease with which even casual players could get max level gear with good stats has really done a lot to alter our expectations.

What do you do in game that you don’t accidentally stumble upon any of the ingredients to make ascended stuff?

You get 30 dragonite from the temples in Orr. You get 15-25 for most of the world bosses outside of the ones in the 1-15 areas and then in wvw you get 5-10 for capturing castles and keeps.

For empyreal you get 3-10 from jumping puzzles and open world chests that are scattered all over the place. You get 20 per dungeon path you run every single time baring DR which makes them easily farmable. You get them from capturing camps in wvw in clumps of 5 to 10 as well.

So please tell me what are you doing in game that you’ve managed to avoid all of that and can make the claim that the materials are hard to get? They are literally given as rewards from every area of the game except for spvp which doesn’t have any ascended.

Also self gathering materials I didn’t spend a single copper outside of the NPC materials to get my weapon smithing to 500. In fact I made 20g+ doing it. So I don’t see an issue there either.

fellyn.5083:

Where did they ever say they would never add new armor tiers right from the start?

I followed news of GW2 pretty closely before it came out and I don’t remember them saying anywhere that what the game launched with as far as equipment tiers go would be what we’d have forever.

I think a lot of people assumed that would be the case because of GW1 but assumptions do not equate to broken promises.

They explained why they did what they did and it was 100% needed. All of a sudden we have use for the hundreds of thousands of low to mid level crafting materials that literally served no purpose other than leveling up crafting professions before. They also said they had no plans to add more.

I’m not seeing how it’s a problem if you’re actually interested in playing the game and aren’t impatient.

I don’t think it was an unreasonable expectation.

Colin Johanson’s now infamous quote “Everyone, including casual gamers, by level 80 should have the best statistical loot in the game. We want everyone on an equal power base.”

And: "We just don’t want players to grind.”

And, Mike O’Brien from the Manifesto: "“GW2 doesn’t fall into the traps of traditional MMORPGs… and force you onto a grinding treadmill…”

To me, those are broken promises.

Here’s Colin last month: “You won’t see legendary armor any time soon, you will see Ascended Armor in 2013 for sure though, yes.”

Which means that not only are we getting the rest of ascended armor to craft, etc… But they already have a legendary tier in mind after ascended. We just won’t see it “soon.” So, probably not until 2014.

funkylovemonkey.3097:

fellyn.5083:

Where did they ever say they would never add new armor tiers right from the start?

I followed news of GW2 pretty closely before it came out and I don’t remember them saying anywhere that what the game launched with as far as equipment tiers go would be what we’d have forever.

I think a lot of people assumed that would be the case because of GW1 but assumptions do not equate to broken promises.

They explained why they did what they did and it was 100% needed. All of a sudden we have use for the hundreds of thousands of low to mid level crafting materials that literally served no purpose other than leveling up crafting professions before. They also said they had no plans to add more.

I’m not seeing how it’s a problem if you’re actually interested in playing the game and aren’t impatient.

I don’t think it was an unreasonable expectation.

Colin Johanson’s now infamous quote “Everyone, including casual gamers, by level 80 should have the best statistical loot in the game. We want everyone on an equal power base.”

And: "We just don’t want players to grind.”

And, Mike O’Brien from the Manifesto: "“GW2 doesn’t fall into the traps of traditional MMORPGs… and force you onto a grinding treadmill…”

To me, those are broken promises.

Here’s Colin last month: “You won’t see legendary armor any time soon, you will see Ascended Armor in 2013 for sure though, yes.”

Which means that not only are we getting the rest of ascended armor to craft, etc… But they already have a legendary tier in mind after ascended. We just won’t see it “soon.” So, probably not until 2014.

None of that says ‘we are not going to add a new tier of weapons and armor to the game ever, end of story’. You assumed that’s what they meant but that is no ones fault but your own for misinterpreting what they said.

We already know exactly what legendary armor will be so that’s a non issue. It’ll be the same as legendary weapons. Same strength as ascended just with fancy skins and the ability to change stats at will. Legendary gear will always be BiS.

P.S. There is very little grind required to get a set of exotic armor which is and will be more than enough to do any piece of content in the game.

At least… until they revamp more dragons. Which I’m not happy about. But that’s for a different thread.

fellyn.5083:

What do you do in game that you don’t accidentally stumble upon any of the ingredients to make ascended stuff?

Dungeons, all day errday. Occasional exploring and personal story (I have 4 characters), events and living story stuff if I like the content. I don’t WvW, it never appealed to me and my aging mid-range gaming PC doesn’t handle zergs well.

fellyn.5083:

You get 30 dragonite from the temples in Orr. You get 15-25 for most of the world bosses outside of the ones in the 1-15 areas and then in wvw you get 5-10 for capturing castles and keeps.

I have never, ever been to Orr and seen a temple event going on. Ever. I don’t WvW, as it never appealed to me and my aging mid-range gaming PC doesn’t handle zergs well. I suppose I will have to start eventually though. As a dungeon and frostgorge farmer, I have no trouble with Empyreal or Bloodstone at all.

fellyn.5083:

Also self gathering materials I didn’t spend a single copper outside of the NPC materials to get my weapon smithing to 500. In fact I made 20g+ doing it. So I don’t see an issue there either.

How long did that take? It sounds very time-consuming.

Don’t interpret my post as a complaint, its just my opinion on the topic. I’ll get my Ascended eventually and apart from the Dragonite, have fun doing it. However, I even though I make time to play and have saved a decent amount of gold, it’s still a considerable grind. Players who don’t have this luxury would definitely have to go out of their way in order to craft Ascended, and not enjoy it.

apparently, if a dev says something will happen. It must happen. If it does not, it is a broken promise and they must be flamed…

now if only this worked in the real world….

fellyn.5083:

funkylovemonkey.3097:

fellyn.5083:

Where did they ever say they would never add new armor tiers right from the start?

I followed news of GW2 pretty closely before it came out and I don’t remember them saying anywhere that what the game launched with as far as equipment tiers go would be what we’d have forever.

I think a lot of people assumed that would be the case because of GW1 but assumptions do not equate to broken promises.

They explained why they did what they did and it was 100% needed. All of a sudden we have use for the hundreds of thousands of low to mid level crafting materials that literally served no purpose other than leveling up crafting professions before. They also said they had no plans to add more.

I’m not seeing how it’s a problem if you’re actually interested in playing the game and aren’t impatient.

I don’t think it was an unreasonable expectation.

Colin Johanson’s now infamous quote “Everyone, including casual gamers, by level 80 should have the best statistical loot in the game. We want everyone on an equal power base.”

And: "We just don’t want players to grind.”

And, Mike O’Brien from the Manifesto: "“GW2 doesn’t fall into the traps of traditional MMORPGs… and force you onto a grinding treadmill…”

To me, those are broken promises.

Here’s Colin last month: “You won’t see legendary armor any time soon, you will see Ascended Armor in 2013 for sure though, yes.”

Which means that not only are we getting the rest of ascended armor to craft, etc… But they already have a legendary tier in mind after ascended. We just won’t see it “soon.” So, probably not until 2014.

None of that says ‘we are not going to add a new tier of weapons and armor to the game ever, end of story’. You assumed that’s what they meant but that is no ones fault but your own for misinterpreting what they said.

We already know exactly what legendary armor will be so that’s a non issue. It’ll be the same as legendary weapons. Same strength as ascended just with fancy skins and the ability to change stats at will. Legendary gear will always be BiS.

P.S. There is very little grind required to get a set of exotic armor which is and will be more than enough to do any piece of content in the game.

At least… until they revamp more dragons. Which I’m not happy about. But that’s for a different thread.

Saying that level 80s will be able to get the best in game gear almost immediately was absolutely a call back to GW1 and is not what ascended represents. Saying there won’t be a Gear Treadmill is saying there won’t be new tiers added, plain and simple. You can quibble but I honestly don’t see how you can say that isn’t a broken promise. That’s what a Gear Treadmill is; adding more tiers.

I have no problem with exotics, I easily equipped 8 characters over the last year in full exotics. And while it’s true you can do all of the content with exotics right now, with a gear treadmill that will change.

The point is they’ve already caved to the people who want a gear treadmill once. And they’ve already added power creep by increasing the power of champions and increasing the difficulty of dragons. Once the gear-treadmill crowd gets their ascended armor they’re going to start calling for more, and eventually with the power creep in game, Exotic gear just isn’t going to cut it. Even if we’re all still level 80, eventually you’re going to need ascended or whatever tier is after that to compete in the endgame. And if you don’t get on the gear treadmill you won’t be able to participate in whatever content is going to get the Teq. treatment. Next comes the other dragons and the dungeons, then regular champions, and pretty soon all the mobs have to be updated to compensate for the increase in power we’ve experienced in gear.

And then it starts all over again. Which is not the game I signed up for.

Haha..wow. All these white knights saying all this grind garbage is okay because “its an mmo.”

You’re right. It IS an MMO. GW2 was SUPPOSE to be the MMO where you didn’t have to actually WORK for endgame gear (stats). Little effort was required: this was the point of the game. Little emphasis on gear..the gear is easy to get. After that, you can simply do whatever you wanted: WvWvW,Spvp, dungeons, or chase that legendary or mini-legendary skin. However,you had no worries of being left behind with tiered gear.

Did any of you play before Ascended gear,or are you all new people?
Ascended gear was introduced which caved the entire game’s base philosophy.
It is now a grind-gearmill like every other MMO.
The OP had the vision of when the game was first released.
Sorry OP,that game is long gone :|

funkylovemonkey.3097:

fellyn.5083:

funkylovemonkey.3097:

fellyn.5083:

Where did they ever say they would never add new armor tiers right from the start?

I followed news of GW2 pretty closely before it came out and I don’t remember them saying anywhere that what the game launched with as far as equipment tiers go would be what we’d have forever.

I think a lot of people assumed that would be the case because of GW1 but assumptions do not equate to broken promises.

They explained why they did what they did and it was 100% needed. All of a sudden we have use for the hundreds of thousands of low to mid level crafting materials that literally served no purpose other than leveling up crafting professions before. They also said they had no plans to add more.

I’m not seeing how it’s a problem if you’re actually interested in playing the game and aren’t impatient.

I don’t think it was an unreasonable expectation.

Colin Johanson’s now infamous quote “Everyone, including casual gamers, by level 80 should have the best statistical loot in the game. We want everyone on an equal power base.”

And: "We just don’t want players to grind.”

And, Mike O’Brien from the Manifesto: "“GW2 doesn’t fall into the traps of traditional MMORPGs… and force you onto a grinding treadmill…”

To me, those are broken promises.

Here’s Colin last month: “You won’t see legendary armor any time soon, you will see Ascended Armor in 2013 for sure though, yes.”

Which means that not only are we getting the rest of ascended armor to craft, etc… But they already have a legendary tier in mind after ascended. We just won’t see it “soon.” So, probably not until 2014.

None of that says ‘we are not going to add a new tier of weapons and armor to the game ever, end of story’. You assumed that’s what they meant but that is no ones fault but your own for misinterpreting what they said.

We already know exactly what legendary armor will be so that’s a non issue. It’ll be the same as legendary weapons. Same strength as ascended just with fancy skins and the ability to change stats at will. Legendary gear will always be BiS.

P.S. There is very little grind required to get a set of exotic armor which is and will be more than enough to do any piece of content in the game.

At least… until they revamp more dragons. Which I’m not happy about. But that’s for a different thread.

Saying that level 80s will be able to get the best in game gear almost immediately was absolutely a call back to GW1 and is not what ascended represents. Saying there won’t be a Gear Treadmill is saying there won’t be new tiers added, plain and simple. You can quibble but I honestly don’t see how you can say that isn’t a broken promise. That’s what a Gear Treadmill is; adding more tiers.

I have no problem with exotics, I easily equipped 8 characters over the last year in full exotics. And while it’s true you can do all of the content with exotics right now, with a gear treadmill that will change.

The point is they’ve already caved to the people who want a gear treadmill once. And they’ve already added power creep by increasing the power of champions and increasing the difficulty of dragons. Once the gear-treadmill crowd gets their ascended armor they’re going to start calling for more, and eventually with the power creep in game, Exotic gear just isn’t going to cut it. Even if we’re all still level 80, eventually you’re going to need ascended or whatever tier is after that to compete in the endgame. And if you don’t get on the gear treadmill you won’t be able to participate in whatever content is going to get the Teq. treatment. Next comes the other dragons and the dungeons, then regular champions, and pretty soon all the mobs have to be updated to compensate for the increase in power we’ve experienced in gear.

And then it starts all over again. Which is not the game I signed up for.

One new tier of armor does not a gear treadmill make.

I’m not white knighting anet here. There is a lot of stuff in this game that I have issue with. Not the least of which is the new Tequatl and proposed future super dragon fights.

I just don’t see the ascended gear stuff as that big of an issue. Or an issue at all, really. People mostly completely exaggerate how “bad” it is to make an ascended weapon to make their argument seem more appealing to others.

Jahroots.6791:

fellyn.5083:

What do you do in game that you don’t accidentally stumble upon any of the ingredients to make ascended stuff?

Dungeons, all day errday. Occasional exploring and personal story (I have 4 characters), events and living story stuff if I like the content. I don’t WvW, it never appealed to me and my aging mid-range gaming PC doesn’t handle zergs well.

fellyn.5083:

You get 30 dragonite from the temples in Orr. You get 15-25 for most of the world bosses outside of the ones in the 1-15 areas and then in wvw you get 5-10 for capturing castles and keeps.

I have never, ever been to Orr and seen a temple event going on. Ever. I don’t WvW, as it never appealed to me and my aging mid-range gaming PC doesn’t handle zergs well. I suppose I will have to start eventually though. As a dungeon and frostgorge farmer, I have no trouble with Empyreal or Bloodstone at all.

fellyn.5083:

Also self gathering materials I didn’t spend a single copper outside of the NPC materials to get my weapon smithing to 500. In fact I made 20g+ doing it. So I don’t see an issue there either.

How long did that take? It sounds very time-consuming.

Don’t interpret my post as a complaint, its just my opinion on the topic. I’ll get my Ascended eventually and apart from the Dragonite, have fun doing it. However, I even though I make time to play and have saved a decent amount of gold, it’s still a considerable grind. Players who don’t have this luxury would definitely have to go out of their way in order to craft Ascended, and not enjoy it.

To actually raise my weapon smithing from 400 to 500? Around an hour maybe? I used a crafting booster and it hadn’t run out by the time I finished.

To gather all the orichalcum and everything else? Quite a while considering you can only get a certain amount from gathering a day. It just depends on how much dedication you give to gathering. Me personally I only bothered to gather the orichalcum nodes in Frostgorge. Between two level 80 characters it’s easy to get a lot before you realize it.

It you don’t prepare ahead of time like I did gathering the materials to get from 400 to 500 will actually be the most time intensive part. You could get to 450 (you can get to ~425 just from making orichalcum ingots) and start making your daily items relatively easily. By the time you get to 500 you’ll probably have enough to make 1 or 2 weapons.

The biggest complaint those of us that are GW vets have is that the new armor not only has a new LOOK but also better STATS. When Anet released Factions the new armor didn’t have any better stats than the armor we could get in Prophecies, it just required different materials for the new look. The “top” armor in GW all the way through EotN was Obsidian armor. The reason for this was not because if better stats but because it was the hardest to make. You had to farm UW for Ectos and then you had to run FoW to go to the place to craft it. As said before, I never got any Obsidian Armor on any of my Toons and I played all the way through Eotn.

Hopefully Lgendary Gear will be like the Obsidian Armor in GW; New look same stats as Ascended gear just harder to get the Mats for and to create.