Am I the type of player you want?
You say the instances in Guild Wars 1 exist before you enter them, but I’m thinking those instances are created for you, when you enter them.
Yes that’s correct. If initiated by a script (as is the usual way) that script is attached to a trigger, the player interacts with that trigger (e.g. an NPC) which starts an instance and puts the player into that instance. The instance was not active before, not persistent, but was created and filled with mobs and whatnot when the player triggered the instance to begin. Usually such instances carry an ID, such a instance 0, or instance 1, or 2, or 88, sometimes numerical from 0 to how ever many are allowable to be running at the same time. Such as in some server side game codes I’ve seen limited to 256 instances of a single type of zone. Like zone ID A33 – instance #24 etc.
So yes, they don’t exist until the player creates it. Then when a player starts the instance, everything begins from it’s starting place. Like if a monster was pathed to circle the zone endlessly, in a persistent zone it would always be circling the zone and you would never know where it exactly was when you entered that persistent zone. But in an instanced zone, as soon as you enter the zone, that monster is in it’s spawn location, because the zone started when the player entered, and will end when they leave. I’m not a big fan of instances, but if used sparingly, they can add variety to an mmo.
Wrong, publishers/developers now start to run away for being named MMO, so you have MMOs that are called “online persistant shooters” and such
MMOs as a genre are losing players. WoW lost 5 million players in short time. Did you see other MMOs grow by 5 million? Nope. And why? Because genre is going downhill and ANet certanly joined the band by their 180 turnaround.
Um no, there have been quite a few games passed off as mmo’s in recent years when they clearly were not. Even before mmo’s became popular, there was a huge debate over some mmo’s that were clearly not mmo’s.
As for the genre failing or whatnot, I’ve been playing mmo’s and working on such indie projects since loong before WoW came around. Those were good times, and quite happy mmo’s were below the radar much like MUD gaming. If all WoW players, those that mostly started and ended with WoW, left the genre to never come back, and WoW closed it’s doors, the genre would be better off, though the damage already done. It’s not the genre failing, just WoW, though I’m sure it will drag down it’s remaining clones with it. Riddance. But Blizzard will do something, they have been around even before some of their loyal playerbase were even born.
I’m pretty sure anet said they were going to make ascended weapons a really long while ago, and a lot of people kept asking for ascended weapons, a really lot of people, why the sudden change of mind?
There are also a lot of people that didn’t ever want it, they never changed their minds, they just hoped Anet would make the game they enjoyed 6 years or so ago.
You say the instances in Guild Wars 1 exist before you enter them, but I’m thinking those instances are created for you, when you enter them.
Yes that’s correct. If initiated by a script (as is the usual way) that script is attached to a trigger, the player interacts with that trigger (e.g. an NPC) which starts an instance and puts the player into that instance. The instance was not active before, not persistent, but was created and filled with mobs and whatnot when the player triggered the instance to begin. Usually such instances carry an ID, such a instance 0, or instance 1, or 2, or 88, sometimes numerical from 0 to how ever many are allowable to be running at the same time. Such as in some server side game codes I’ve seen limited to 256 instances of a single type of zone. Like zone ID A33 – instance #24 etc.
So yes, they don’t exist until the player creates it. Then when a player starts the instance, everything begins from it’s starting place. Like if a monster was pathed to circle the zone endlessly, in a persistent zone it would always be circling the zone and you would never know where it exactly was when you entered that persistent zone. But in an instanced zone, as soon as you enter the zone, that monster is in it’s spawn location, because the zone started when the player entered, and will end when they leave. I’m not a big fan of instances, but if used sparingly, they can add variety to an mmo.
Wrong, publishers/developers now start to run away for being named MMO, so you have MMOs that are called “online persistant shooters” and such
MMOs as a genre are losing players. WoW lost 5 million players in short time. Did you see other MMOs grow by 5 million? Nope. And why? Because genre is going downhill and ANet certanly joined the band by their 180 turnaround.
Um no, there have been quite a few games passed off as mmo’s in recent years when they clearly were not. Even before mmo’s became popular, there was a huge debate over some mmo’s that were clearly not mmo’s.
As for the genre failing or whatnot, I’ve been playing mmo’s and working on such indie projects since loong before WoW came around. Those were good times, and quite happy mmo’s were below the radar much like MUD gaming. If all WoW players, those that mostly started and ended with WoW, left the genre to never come back, and WoW closed it’s doors, the genre would be better off, though the damage already done. It’s not the genre failing, just WoW, though I’m sure it will drag down it’s remaining clones with it. Riddance. But Blizzard will do something, they have been around even before some of their loyal playerbase were even born.
Not really. WoW brought many people to MMOs. Its MMO developers that failed to further popularize and evolve/revolve games so pretty much all AAA tiles are different skin of the same game. Every AAA MMO since WoW sold more and more….and lost more and more people,. And now WoW lost almost half of their players and where are they? Surely not playing MMOs, 7-8 million (over various MMOs) players would be quite noticable if they actually went to other MMOs.
GW2 had some fresh ideas, but 2 months after launch they decided they want to be more like WoW. I mean, didnt they get the memo or sumtin?
Colin Johanson: “Everyone, including casual gamers, by level 80 should have the
best statistical loot in the game. We want everyone on an equal power base.”
best statistical loot in the game. We want everyone on an equal power base.”
You say the instances in Guild Wars 1 exist before you enter them, but I’m thinking those instances are created for you, when you enter them.
Yes that’s correct. If initiated by a script (as is the usual way) that script is attached to a trigger, the player interacts with that trigger (e.g. an NPC) which starts an instance and puts the player into that instance. The instance was not active before, not persistent, but was created and filled with mobs and whatnot when the player triggered the instance to begin. Usually such instances carry an ID, such a instance 0, or instance 1, or 2, or 88, sometimes numerical from 0 to how ever many are allowable to be running at the same time. Such as in some server side game codes I’ve seen limited to 256 instances of a single type of zone. Like zone ID A33 – instance #24 etc.
So yes, they don’t exist until the player creates it. Then when a player starts the instance, everything begins from it’s starting place. Like if a monster was pathed to circle the zone endlessly, in a persistent zone it would always be circling the zone and you would never know where it exactly was when you entered that persistent zone. But in an instanced zone, as soon as you enter the zone, that monster is in it’s spawn location, because the zone started when the player entered, and will end when they leave. I’m not a big fan of instances, but if used sparingly, they can add variety to an mmo.
Wrong, publishers/developers now start to run away for being named MMO, so you have MMOs that are called “online persistant shooters” and such
MMOs as a genre are losing players. WoW lost 5 million players in short time. Did you see other MMOs grow by 5 million? Nope. And why? Because genre is going downhill and ANet certanly joined the band by their 180 turnaround.
Um no, there have been quite a few games passed off as mmo’s in recent years when they clearly were not. Even before mmo’s became popular, there was a huge debate over some mmo’s that were clearly not mmo’s.
As for the genre failing or whatnot, I’ve been playing mmo’s and working on such indie projects since loong before WoW came around. Those were good times, and quite happy mmo’s were below the radar much like MUD gaming. If all WoW players, those that mostly started and ended with WoW, left the genre to never come back, and WoW closed it’s doors, the genre would be better off, though the damage already done. It’s not the genre failing, just WoW, though I’m sure it will drag down it’s remaining clones with it. Riddance. But Blizzard will do something, they have been around even before some of their loyal playerbase were even born.
Not really. WoW brought many people to MMOs. Its MMO developers that failed to further popularize and evolve/revolve games so pretty much all AAA tiles are different skin of the same game. Every AAA MMO since WoW sold more and more….and lost more and more people,. And now WoW lost almost half of their players and where are they? Surely not playing MMOs, 7-8 million (over various MMOs) players would be quite noticable if they actually went to other MMOs.
GW2 had some fresh ideas, but 2 months after launch they decided they want to be more like WoW. I mean, didnt they get the memo or sumtin?
Your assumptions are baseless. For one thing, you say that WoW has lost half their player base…sure….it’s an 8 year old game. How many 8 year old games haven’t lost their player base? By percentage please.
I bet you less than 1% of 8 year old games have retained more than half their player base. A hell of a lot less than 1%. For every hundred games that have come out 8 years ago., how many have half their player base left? How many people are still playing other games that came out around the time of WoW. Even Guild Wars 1 has lost far more than half it’s player base.
So saying that WoW has lost half it’s player base over that time sounds more like a success story than a problem.
Any game that retains half it’s player base for 8 years is doing extremely well.
You say the instances in Guild Wars 1 exist before you enter them, but I’m thinking those instances are created for you, when you enter them.
Yes that’s correct. If initiated by a script (as is the usual way) that script is attached to a trigger, the player interacts with that trigger (e.g. an NPC) which starts an instance and puts the player into that instance. The instance was not active before, not persistent, but was created and filled with mobs and whatnot when the player triggered the instance to begin. Usually such instances carry an ID, such a instance 0, or instance 1, or 2, or 88, sometimes numerical from 0 to how ever many are allowable to be running at the same time. Such as in some server side game codes I’ve seen limited to 256 instances of a single type of zone. Like zone ID A33 – instance #24 etc.
So yes, they don’t exist until the player creates it. Then when a player starts the instance, everything begins from it’s starting place. Like if a monster was pathed to circle the zone endlessly, in a persistent zone it would always be circling the zone and you would never know where it exactly was when you entered that persistent zone. But in an instanced zone, as soon as you enter the zone, that monster is in it’s spawn location, because the zone started when the player entered, and will end when they leave. I’m not a big fan of instances, but if used sparingly, they can add variety to an mmo.
Wrong, publishers/developers now start to run away for being named MMO, so you have MMOs that are called “online persistant shooters” and such
MMOs as a genre are losing players. WoW lost 5 million players in short time. Did you see other MMOs grow by 5 million? Nope. And why? Because genre is going downhill and ANet certanly joined the band by their 180 turnaround.
Um no, there have been quite a few games passed off as mmo’s in recent years when they clearly were not. Even before mmo’s became popular, there was a huge debate over some mmo’s that were clearly not mmo’s.
As for the genre failing or whatnot, I’ve been playing mmo’s and working on such indie projects since loong before WoW came around. Those were good times, and quite happy mmo’s were below the radar much like MUD gaming. If all WoW players, those that mostly started and ended with WoW, left the genre to never come back, and WoW closed it’s doors, the genre would be better off, though the damage already done. It’s not the genre failing, just WoW, though I’m sure it will drag down it’s remaining clones with it. Riddance. But Blizzard will do something, they have been around even before some of their loyal playerbase were even born.
Not really. WoW brought many people to MMOs. Its MMO developers that failed to further popularize and evolve/revolve games so pretty much all AAA tiles are different skin of the same game. Every AAA MMO since WoW sold more and more….and lost more and more people,. And now WoW lost almost half of their players and where are they? Surely not playing MMOs, 7-8 million (over various MMOs) players would be quite noticable if they actually went to other MMOs.
GW2 had some fresh ideas, but 2 months after launch they decided they want to be more like WoW. I mean, didnt they get the memo or sumtin?
Your assumptions are baseless. For one thing, you say that WoW has lost half their player base…sure….it’s an 8 year old game. How many 8 year old games haven’t lost their player base? By percentage please.
I bet you less than 1% of 8 year old games have retained more than half their player base. A hell of a lot less than 1%. For every hundred games that have come out 8 years ago., how many have half their player base left? How many people are still playing other games that came out around the time of WoW. Even Guild Wars 1 has lost far more than half it’s player base.
So saying that WoW has lost half it’s player base over that time sounds more like a success story than a problem.
Any game that retains half it’s player base for 8 years is doing extremely well.
Point here .
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Vayne here .
As usual
Colin Johanson: “Everyone, including casual gamers, by level 80 should have the
best statistical loot in the game. We want everyone on an equal power base.”
best statistical loot in the game. We want everyone on an equal power base.”
(edited by MikaHR.1978)
lol i like how vayne says percentages please, then goes on to say “i bet you less than 1%”…
anyways i liked that visual representation mika
League of Legends
Counter-Strike OnlineYup, its not only MMOs they measure, as i suspected.
Yes, we are to believe 5 million just from WoW, but pretty much ALL AAA MMOs lost players, moved to some obsure F2P MMOs
oh wait, no they didnt, they moved to different GENRE
How do you know what they did?
Besides WoW might be king of the P2P but P2P player base is miniscule compared to the F2P player base.
Just take runescape for example. 200 million registered accounts. and as of a year ago they had like 14k new accounts every single day. Thats 5m accounts per year! and thats Just 1 game, extremely old game at that!
Source:
http://kotaku.com/5927446/browser+based-mmo-runescape-boasts-200-million-players-and-counting
Personal impressions are not facts. Not me, Not you can claim every single player who left WoW stopped playing MMOs altogether. There are a ton of MMOs out there if like you claim they’re all loosing players and not getting in any new ones are you saying they’re all operating at a loss? cause if players were leaving and no new ones join in by now they’d all go bankrupt dont you think?
Guild Wars 1 was unique in that it was a multiplayer game that didn’t charge a monthly fee, but you couldn’t compare it to existing MMOs. In fact, those with background in MMOs often tried the game, and left because it was instanced. If it’s all instanced, than it’s not a true MMO.
Diablo 2, to pluck an instanced multiplayer fantasy RPG with no monthly fee out of the air, released nearly five years before Guild Wars.
There is nothing unique about Guild Wars lack of a monthly fee. No game other than MMORPGs had monthly fees. Probably 99% of the games ever released on PC up to that point were “Buy To Play”.
Why Vindictus and a lot of games like that are considered mmorpg and not GW1?
I haven’t played Vindictus (Australians not welcome there last time I looked..) but from what I’ve heard, it’s not really an MMORPG and if the publishers call it one, they’re stretching the term for marketing purposes.
Does Vindictus have a persistent world with an arbitrarily large number of players able to simultaneously engage in gameplay?
lol i like how vayne says percentages please, then goes on to say “i bet you less than 1%”…
anyways i liked that visual representation mika
I worked in retail, managing a computer store for a long time. The number of games that still have half their user base 8 years on is well well well under 1%. If you don’t believe me, do it this way. Hundreds of games come out every year. Every single year. Eight years on, most games have been long abandoned.
You can check the facts about this if you like but this isn’t quoting a figure. This is just basic common sense.
The same is true in book sales and movie sales. Most books sell 90% of all the copies they’ll ever sell in the first three months. The other 10% of sales are sold over the rest of their lifetime.
lol i like how vayne says percentages please, then goes on to say “i bet you less than 1%”…
anyways i liked that visual representation mikaI worked in retail, managing a computer store for a long time. The number of games that still have half their user base 8 years on is well well well under 1%. If you don’t believe me, do it this way. Hundreds of games come out every year. Every single year. Eight years on, most games have been long abandoned.
You can check the facts about this if you like but this isn’t quoting a figure. This is just basic common sense.
The same is true in book sales and movie sales. Most books sell 90% of all the copies they’ll ever sell in the first three months. The other 10% of sales are sold over the rest of their lifetime.
Except MMOs are not book but a service.
With your extensive expereience its a wonder you dont now the difference.
Colin Johanson: “Everyone, including casual gamers, by level 80 should have the
best statistical loot in the game. We want everyone on an equal power base.”
best statistical loot in the game. We want everyone on an equal power base.”
(edited by MikaHR.1978)
lol i like how vayne says percentages please, then goes on to say “i bet you less than 1%”…
anyways i liked that visual representation mikaI worked in retail, managing a computer store for a long time. The number of games that still have half their user base 8 years on is well well well under 1%. If you don’t believe me, do it this way. Hundreds of games come out every year. Every single year. Eight years on, most games have been long abandoned.
You can check the facts about this if you like but this isn’t quoting a figure. This is just basic common sense.
The same is true in book sales and movie sales. Most books sell 90% of all the copies they’ll ever sell in the first three months. The other 10% of sales are sold over the rest of their lifetime.
Except MMOs are not book but a service.
With your extensive expereience its a wonder you dont now the difference.
MMOs are a form of entertainment. Books are a form of entertainment. Do some research, just for once, and figure it out. Look at ALL the MMOs that are out for 8 years. Every one of them.
Now list ALL the MMOs that have 50% of their userbase left.
I’ll wait here.
lol i like how vayne says percentages please, then goes on to say “i bet you less than 1%”…
anyways i liked that visual representation mikaI worked in retail, managing a computer store for a long time. The number of games that still have half their user base 8 years on is well well well under 1%. If you don’t believe me, do it this way. Hundreds of games come out every year. Every single year. Eight years on, most games have been long abandoned.
You can check the facts about this if you like but this isn’t quoting a figure. This is just basic common sense.
The same is true in book sales and movie sales. Most books sell 90% of all the copies they’ll ever sell in the first three months. The other 10% of sales are sold over the rest of their lifetime.
Except MMOs are not book but a service.
With your extensive expereience its a wonder you dont now the difference.
MMOs are a form of entertainment. Books are a form of entertainment. Do some research, just for once, and figure it out. Look at ALL the MMOs that are out for 8 years. Every one of them.
Now list ALL the MMOs that have 50% of their userbase left.
I’ll wait here.
So you DONT know difference between a book and a service.
ROFL
And – EvE, i kinda wonder you havent picked that up yet, 10 years and GROWING. No worries, it will sink in one day. There are more but its irrelevant.
What IS relevant that all games YOU think of are EQ/WoW copies, with same results as EQ/WoW.
Keep it coming bro!
But you better wait there rofl
Colin Johanson: “Everyone, including casual gamers, by level 80 should have the
best statistical loot in the game. We want everyone on an equal power base.”
best statistical loot in the game. We want everyone on an equal power base.”
(edited by MikaHR.1978)
I don’t really get people being upset about ascended weapons, I mean seriously, those 20 extra points doesn’t really make any difference. If you have full ascended trinkets it makes you better than someone with ascended weapons, and it’s a lot cheaper….
10% is 10% it makes all the difference in PVE dungeons especially since they are supposedly going to make them harder, it will make a difference in fighting the dragons, it will make a difference in WvW.
This argument is very strawman, it’s a dead horse response, it’s been disproven time and time again and it occurs in other game titles so there’s definitely a precedent for this kind of behavior in games. The mathematical fact remains, the higher the score the better the damage no trivializing will make that fact go away.
Balance Team: Please Fix Mine Toolbelt Positioning!
lol i like how vayne says percentages please, then goes on to say “i bet you less than 1%”…
anyways i liked that visual representation mikaI worked in retail, managing a computer store for a long time. The number of games that still have half their user base 8 years on is well well well under 1%. If you don’t believe me, do it this way. Hundreds of games come out every year. Every single year. Eight years on, most games have been long abandoned.
You can check the facts about this if you like but this isn’t quoting a figure. This is just basic common sense.
The same is true in book sales and movie sales. Most books sell 90% of all the copies they’ll ever sell in the first three months. The other 10% of sales are sold over the rest of their lifetime.
Except MMOs are not book but a service.
With your extensive expereience its a wonder you dont now the difference.
MMOs are a form of entertainment. Books are a form of entertainment. Do some research, just for once, and figure it out. Look at ALL the MMOs that are out for 8 years. Every one of them.
Now list ALL the MMOs that have 50% of their userbase left.
I’ll wait here.
So you DONT know difference between a book and a service.
ROFL
And – EvE, i kinda wonder you havent picked that up yet, 10 years and GROWING. No worries, it will sink in one day. There are more but its irrelevant.
What IS relevant that all games YOU think of are EQ/WoW copies, with same results as EQ/WoW.
Keep it coming bro!
But you better wait there rofl
Okay Eve is growing. You’ve named one MMO. Now how many MMOs have existed in that time period.
I think you’ll agree that most of them, practically all of them, have decreased significantly in playerbase 8 years after launch. DAoC, very popular, but with an extremely diminished playerbase 8 years after launch. The player base was well under half what it was during it’s height.
The fact is, you make up stuff and call them facts.
You say MMOs are a service. I say they’re a form of entertainment. You think you’re more right than I am? People play MMOs to be served, or to be entertained.
I think you just like to argue with me because you think it annoys me.
You say MMOs are a service. I say they’re a form of entertainment. You think you’re more right than I am? People play MMOs to be served, or to be entertained.
Neither, really, but you are much closer. Technically, it’s considered under the category of printed matter such as books are. If you ever got into starting a software business, publishing software, aspects of development, to deal with governments and international protection laws, an MMORPG or any and all software is basically handled as a book.
You were closer to that early on, I wouldn’t use the term ‘entertainment’, I’ve seen mmo projects that were purely edgumicational (hehe). I mean like books are of all sorts, for entertainment and others for educational reasons etc. This is especially true in some small indie projects as well as to well known government agencies (e.g. NASA). But the uniting factor is code, which is printed matter, and thus falls into the category in which books dwell.
lol i like how vayne says percentages please, then goes on to say “i bet you less than 1%”…
anyways i liked that visual representation mikaI worked in retail, managing a computer store for a long time. The number of games that still have half their user base 8 years on is well well well under 1%. If you don’t believe me, do it this way. Hundreds of games come out every year. Every single year. Eight years on, most games have been long abandoned.
You can check the facts about this if you like but this isn’t quoting a figure. This is just basic common sense.
The same is true in book sales and movie sales. Most books sell 90% of all the copies they’ll ever sell in the first three months. The other 10% of sales are sold over the rest of their lifetime.
Except MMOs are not book but a service.
With your extensive expereience its a wonder you dont now the difference.
MMOs are a form of entertainment. Books are a form of entertainment. Do some research, just for once, and figure it out. Look at ALL the MMOs that are out for 8 years. Every one of them.
Now list ALL the MMOs that have 50% of their userbase left.
I’ll wait here.
So you DONT know difference between a book and a service.
ROFL
And – EvE, i kinda wonder you havent picked that up yet, 10 years and GROWING. No worries, it will sink in one day. There are more but its irrelevant.
What IS relevant that all games YOU think of are EQ/WoW copies, with same results as EQ/WoW.
Keep it coming bro!
But you better wait there rofl
Okay Eve is growing. You’ve named one MMO. Now how many MMOs have existed in that time period.
I think you’ll agree that most of them, practically all of them, have decreased significantly in playerbase 8 years after launch. DAoC, very popular, but with an extremely diminished playerbase 8 years after launch. The player base was well under half what it was during it’s height.
The fact is, you make up stuff and call them facts.
You say MMOs are a service. I say they’re a form of entertainment. You think you’re more right than I am? People play MMOs to be served, or to be entertained.
I think you just like to argue with me because you think it annoys me.
You are making less and less sense.
Colin Johanson: “Everyone, including casual gamers, by level 80 should have the
best statistical loot in the game. We want everyone on an equal power base.”
best statistical loot in the game. We want everyone on an equal power base.”
You say MMOs are a service. I say they’re a form of entertainment. You think you’re more right than I am? People play MMOs to be served, or to be entertained.
Neither, really, but you are much closer. Technically, it’s considered under the category of printed matter such as books are. If you ever got into starting a software business, publishing software, aspects of development, to deal with governments and international protection laws, an MMORPG or any and all software is basically handled as a book.
You were closer to that early on, I wouldn’t use the term ‘entertainment’, I’ve seen mmo projects that were purely edgumicational (hehe). I mean like books are of all sorts, for entertainment and others for educational reasons etc. This is especially true in some small indie projects as well as to well known government agencies (e.g. NASA). But the uniting factor is code, which is printed matter, and thus falls into the category in which books dwell.
Try to play a GW2 without NCSoft providing a service.
Then come back and claim its like a book.
NCSoft is selling you a service.
Its on customer to decide is the service worth paying for or not. And by trends customers dont really find MMOs worth paying for to use it. Yes, it IS entertainment, but seems what MMOs provide entertain less and less people, and even less people want to pay for it, ESPECIALLY type of WoW and its clones and those have VERY defined traiits.
Its not a matter of what legally that falls under but from business point of view.
Generally, legislation on online, well, anything is very poor, thats why you have them make you sign legally non valid contract (as an example of legislation). But its slowly cathcing up, as now i can sell my account and ANet/NCSoft cant do anything but throw a warm smile at me.
Colin Johanson: “Everyone, including casual gamers, by level 80 should have the
best statistical loot in the game. We want everyone on an equal power base.”
best statistical loot in the game. We want everyone on an equal power base.”
(edited by MikaHR.1978)
Not really. WoW brought many people to MMOs. Its MMO developers that failed to further popularize and evolve/revolve games so pretty much all AAA tiles are different skin of the same game. Every AAA MMO since WoW sold more and more….and lost more and more people,. And now WoW lost almost half of their players and where are they? Surely not playing MMOs, 7-8 million (over various MMOs) players would be quite noticable if they actually went to other MMOs.
I don’t think you get my point. I don’t care about what is popular. When I started playing mmo’s, they were the opposite of popular, but we still developed them and played them. Ten years ago, years after I started playing them, I could count all the mmo’s available on my fingers w/o needing to count on my toes. Were they popular? oh kitten no! and people that played them were ridiculed. But one thing was for sure, they were not popular, and if anything – that helped to really drive the best of development that the genre has ever seen to this day.
Popular means nothing to me, and in fact I see it as a detriment to good development. What is popular becomes the standard, and becomes the template, because it drives investors to look for the most money, even if that direction actually leads to the lesser long-term money and to failure as the actual and intended end result. Success is a game that can self-sustain, continue to develop, and feed the families of the developers. Not gambles at a get rich scheme, maximized short-term revenue, investors padding their bank accounts by getting the quick money now while putting a game one a quick road to burnout and closure.
In the early years, the games were diverse, there was no clear-cut popular recipe. One game was very different from another. And that’s the point of my posts in this thread, I don’t want to see Anet change course to what has been popular, because that is not necessarily the sustaining course, nor the course towards good game development.
You say MMOs are a service. I say they’re a form of entertainment. You think you’re more right than I am? People play MMOs to be served, or to be entertained.
Neither, really, but you are much closer. Technically, it’s considered under the category of printed matter such as books are. If you ever got into starting a software business, publishing software, aspects of development, to deal with governments and international protection laws, an MMORPG or any and all software is basically handled as a book.
You were closer to that early on, I wouldn’t use the term ‘entertainment’, I’ve seen mmo projects that were purely edgumicational (hehe). I mean like books are of all sorts, for entertainment and others for educational reasons etc. This is especially true in some small indie projects as well as to well known government agencies (e.g. NASA). But the uniting factor is code, which is printed matter, and thus falls into the category in which books dwell.
Try to play a GW2 without NCSoft providing a service.
Then come back and claim its like a book.
NCSoft is selling you a service.
Its on customer to decide is the service worth paying for or not. And by trends customers dont really find MMOs worth paying for to use it. Yes, it IS entertainment, but seems what MMOs provide entertain less and less people, and even less people want to pay for it.
Its not a matter of what legally that falls under but from business point of view.
Generally, legislation on online, well, anything is very poor, thats why you have them make you sign legally non valid contract (as an example of legislation). But its slowly cathcing up, as now i can sell my account and ANet/NCSoft cant do anything but throw a warm smile at me.
Try to read a book without a publisher providing the service of printing it. And it’s not just a book. Many books are parts of a series, which has continually be published in order for you to keep reading it. The publishing industry has provided a service, look at that.
Fiction, in particular, is still considered a form of entertainment. That’s why big, multimedia entertainment conglomerates (like Sony and Virgin) have been buying up publishing companies. To add to their entertainment portfolio.
Sony also provides people with games. I’m pretty sure it sees those games as a form of entertainment.
You say I’m making less and less sense. I’m so glad there are other people here reading this stuff besides just you.
Not really. WoW brought many people to MMOs. Its MMO developers that failed to further popularize and evolve/revolve games so pretty much all AAA tiles are different skin of the same game. Every AAA MMO since WoW sold more and more….and lost more and more people,. And now WoW lost almost half of their players and where are they? Surely not playing MMOs, 7-8 million (over various MMOs) players would be quite noticable if they actually went to other MMOs.
I don’t think you get my point. I don’t care about what is popular. When I started playing mmo’s, they were the opposite of popular, but we still developed them and played them. Ten years ago, years after I started playing them, I could count all the mmo’s available on my fingers w/o needing to count on my toes. Were they popular? oh kitten no! and people that played them were ridiculed. But one thing was for sure, they were not popular, and if anything – that helped to really drive the best of development that the genre has ever seen to this day.
Popular means nothing to me, and in fact I see it as a detriment to good development. What is popular becomes the standard, and becomes the template, because it drives investors to look for the most money, even if that direction actually leads to the lesser long-term money and to failure as the actual and intended end result. Success is a game that can self-sustain, continue to develop, and feed the families of the developers. Not gambles at a get rich scheme, maximized short-term revenue, investors padding their bank accounts by getting the quick money now while putting a game one a quick road to burnout and closure.
In the early years, the games were diverse, there was no clear-cut popular recipe. One game was very different from another. And that’s the point of my posts in this thread, I don’t want to see Anet change course to what has been popular, because that is not necessarily the sustaining course, nor the course towards good game development.
Ah, but it costs money. If what you are saying was true, indie MMOs would thrive, but truth is you expect some things from MMO. Standards for some things have indeed been set.
And truth is, yes there are niches that can function great, GW2 was supposed to fill that niche, but i guess greed took over and they indeed took “popular approach”. I guess their dream of “beating WoW” is still very much alive, and with decisons they made just confirm that. But theres also small matter of: such shifts have always backfired.
GW2 course is set, if they turn back they will indeed kitten off EVERYONE. But they also choose to compete with WoW and every WoW clone out there for same crowd. Their choice.
Colin Johanson: “Everyone, including casual gamers, by level 80 should have the
best statistical loot in the game. We want everyone on an equal power base.”
best statistical loot in the game. We want everyone on an equal power base.”
(edited by MikaHR.1978)
ESPECIALLY type of WoW and its clones and those have VERY defined traiits.
You would probably be better off researching the points I presented. Maybe even try establishing a fictitious business model and research through the entire process from beginning to end. You will develop a different view of things, and the inner workings of how the process works.
You say MMOs are a service. I say they’re a form of entertainment. You think you’re more right than I am? People play MMOs to be served, or to be entertained.
Neither, really, but you are much closer. Technically, it’s considered under the category of printed matter such as books are. If you ever got into starting a software business, publishing software, aspects of development, to deal with governments and international protection laws, an MMORPG or any and all software is basically handled as a book.
You were closer to that early on, I wouldn’t use the term ‘entertainment’, I’ve seen mmo projects that were purely edgumicational (hehe). I mean like books are of all sorts, for entertainment and others for educational reasons etc. This is especially true in some small indie projects as well as to well known government agencies (e.g. NASA). But the uniting factor is code, which is printed matter, and thus falls into the category in which books dwell.
Try to play a GW2 without NCSoft providing a service.
Then come back and claim its like a book.
NCSoft is selling you a service.
Its on customer to decide is the service worth paying for or not. And by trends customers dont really find MMOs worth paying for to use it. Yes, it IS entertainment, but seems what MMOs provide entertain less and less people, and even less people want to pay for it.
Its not a matter of what legally that falls under but from business point of view.
Generally, legislation on online, well, anything is very poor, thats why you have them make you sign legally non valid contract (as an example of legislation). But its slowly cathcing up, as now i can sell my account and ANet/NCSoft cant do anything but throw a warm smile at me.
Try to read a book without a publisher providing the service of printing it. And it’s not just a book. Many books are parts of a series, which has continually be published in order for you to keep reading it. The publishing industry has provided a service, look at that.
Fiction, in particular, is still considered a form of entertainment. That’s why big, multimedia entertainment conglomerates (like Sony and Virgin) have been buying up publishing companies. To add to their entertainment portfolio.
Sony also provides people with games. I’m pretty sure it sees those games as a form of entertainment.
You say I’m making less and less sense. I’m so glad there are other people here reading this stuff besides just you.
Less and less sense.
Im also glad other people are reading it.
Colin Johanson: “Everyone, including casual gamers, by level 80 should have the
best statistical loot in the game. We want everyone on an equal power base.”
best statistical loot in the game. We want everyone on an equal power base.”
ESPECIALLY type of WoW and its clones and those have VERY defined traiits.
You would probably be better off researching the points I presented. Maybe even try establishing a fictitious business model and research through the entire process from beginning to end. You will develop a different view of things, and the inner workings of how the process works.
What do you think NCSoft/ANet did by changing 180?
Colin Johanson: “Everyone, including casual gamers, by level 80 should have the
best statistical loot in the game. We want everyone on an equal power base.”
best statistical loot in the game. We want everyone on an equal power base.”
Book, Service what difference does it make, its just words.
Thing is Vayne is right, in the majority of the cases the older the MMO the more players it is likely to loose. And it makes perfect sense, If I had never played an MMO before today and I decided to try one its highly unlikely I will go with say UO instead of one thats more recent like say Gw2. Like wise if I’ve been playing everquest 2 for a few years and start getting a bit bored I am likely to move on to a new more recent MMO then one from 10 years ago.
You keep using EvE Online to proof your point which is fine, EvE is a great game but it makes for a very bad example.
Why? because EvE Online is kinda alone in its genre.
If I am new to MMOs and I want to play a Fantasy Themepark I got a billion options. I may choose WoW, I may Choose GW2, I may choose Lord of the Rings online… plenty of options.
If I am new to MMOs and I want a space based sandbox, which game am I going to choose?
If Eq2 wants to increase its player based a new player who suddenly becomes interested in Fantasy based MMOs is not going to be enough, it might choose it as his first game of choice sure but its far from sure, if anything its actually unlikely that they will.
EvE online on the other hand? a new player who wants to play a space based MMO is on the other hand nearly guaranteed to be pick it simply because there are no alternatives like it.
If I had never played an MMO before today and I decided to try one its highly unlikely I will go with say UO instead of one thats more recent like say Gw2.
Well… you can’t play UO, at least not the spirit of it during it’s first five years or so. It didn’t decline because it was old, it declined because the successful development model was changed for something else. It’s not the same game one bit, and is more like other games – for years now. You would be better off starting with those other games I suppose.
Why? because EvE Online is kinda alone in its genre.
You mean different? Actually quite a lot of people don’t like high fantasy, some even detest it. But we get used to being around our usual communities, all birds of a feather. Yet, there are other games in that sub-genre, there are many futuristic sci-fi enthusiasts always craving for something other than the next high fantasy game.
If I had never played an MMO before today and I decided to try one its highly unlikely I will go with say UO instead of one thats more recent like say Gw2.
Well… you can’t play UO, at least not the spirit of it during it’s first five years or so. It didn’t decline because it was old, it declined because the successful development model was changed for something else. It’s not the same game one bit, and is more like other games – for years now. You would be better off starting with those other games I suppose.
Why? because EvE Online is kinda alone in its genre.
You mean different? Actually quite a lot of people don’t like high fantasy, some even detest it. But we get used to being around our usual communities, all birds of a feather. Yet, there are other games in that sub-genre, there are many futuristic sci-fi enthusiasts always craving for something other than the next high fantasy game.
UO was just an example. could plug in any other old MMO… Of course you’re right many of them changed since their early days and the reason for that is the same. After a few years the new generation of gamers will get used to the new games and their way of doing things. Even WoW changed drastically from its early years after all with all its success. Why do you think that is? I would imagine its the same reason we’re talking about here. Some of the old players stopped playing while its not attracting new players for various reason one of which is the new games and their way of doing things is more appealing to the new players so the old games try to become more like the new games in the hope of attracting some of the new players to replace those players who stop playing.
Just being different is not enough. Of course you’re right plenty of people hate high fantasy, not denying that. If you just cant stand fantasy and want an MMO does that mean you’re going to go for EvE? hating fantasy doesnt mean you love space based games either and there are other options like The secret world, a gazillion MMOFPS, Star trek online, Planet Calipso, Firefall, Ace online, Argo, bounty hounds, fallen earth, faces of mankind, hawken, mech warrior online, swtor, and many others. But if you’re a person who like space games and grew up with games like Elite, wing commander Privateer and the X series? Literally Eve Online is the only option.
I gave up playing GW2 almost 4 weeks ago now. I realised ArenaNet were using underhanded tactics to keep me addicted and “playing”/paying, when in reality I was just repeating flavourless stuff every day in order to keep up with the Joneses.
It was becoming stressful making sure I was doing my dailies/living story so that I could keep up with everyone else, to get the “rewards” that seemed so necessary to my account.
So I just stopped. That’s what I tend to do when I realise something is adversely affecting my health, be it mental, physical or financial.
And now I feel much better.
The irony is, the longer I don’t play, the further “behind” I fall, the less inclined I am to log back in. The prospect of having to spend ridiculous amounts of time working in order to “catch-up” actively discourages me from logging in.
GW2 is no longer a game. It’s a rat race, yet somehow the rats end up paying for the “rewards” offered from “winning” that race, be that in time or money.
I would come back if I felt ArenaNet were going to change for the better, but they’re too invested in this bad cycle of achievements and events now to step away. They’ve got too many customers addicted to this stuff now, and if they removed it, they’d incur the wrath of thousands of disgruntled achievement/progression junkies.
Please note that due to restrictions placed on my account, I am only allowed 1 post per hour.
Therefore I may take some time replying to you.
Therefore I may take some time replying to you.
I gave up playing GW2 almost 4 weeks ago now. I realised ArenaNet were using underhanded tactics to keep me addicted and “playing”/paying, when in reality I was just repeating flavourless stuff every day in order to keep up with the Joneses.
It was becoming stressful making sure I was doing my dailies/living story so that I could keep up with everyone else, to get the “rewards” that seemed so necessary to my account.So I just stopped. That’s what I tend to do when I realise something is adversely affecting my health, be it mental, physical or financial.
And now I feel much better.
The irony is, the longer I don’t play, the further “behind” I fall, the less inclined I am to log back in. The prospect of having to spend ridiculous amounts of time working in order to “catch-up” actively discourages me from logging in.GW2 is no longer a game. It’s a rat race, yet somehow the rats end up paying for the “rewards” offered from “winning” that race, be that in time or money.
I would come back if I felt ArenaNet were going to change for the better, but they’re too invested in this bad cycle of achievements and events now to step away. They’ve got too many customers addicted to this stuff now, and if they removed it, they’d incur the wrath of thousands of disgruntled achievement/progression junkies.
how exactly are you falling behind each day you dont play?
No achievement points, so I’m falling behind in rewards for each tier; no time-gated materials, so it’ll take me longer to get ascended weapons; no laurels, so again my ability to equip my alts with ascended is impacted; no living story participation, so I won’t get the rewards for that, yada, yada, yada.
And I know what you’re going to say in response to that:
“But all of those rewards are optional and don’t make a difference to how you play.”
Aside from that being arguable in regards Ascended, I am in agreement with you, and there’s the crux.
Those rewards ARE optional, and I’ve realised I don’t need them. They’re INCREDIBLY shallow. In addition, what remains isn’t good enough to keep me playing, as all recent “content” has been designed around “rewarding” the player’s ability to grind rather than actually being fun to play. There’s nothing to explore any more, and that’s my primary draw for these big games.
I feel I’ve seen everything, and the stuff they’ve been releasing recently hasn’t scratched my exploration itch, so there’s nothing beyond shinies retaining my attention.
All that’s left is a hollow grind for achievement points and ascended gear.
Please note that due to restrictions placed on my account, I am only allowed 1 post per hour.
Therefore I may take some time replying to you.
Therefore I may take some time replying to you.
okey fair enough no issue with what you said so far. so my next question is what kind of reward would you consider meaningful?
Also are you absolutely sure you’ve explored all there is to explore?
Cause its kinda hard to tell, plenty of hidden areas and hidden events!
Like say did you come across the quagen who gets agitated at you for finding his secret place? Did you stop the witch who abducts and kills children? Did you get the bandana for helping out the charr with his machine?
Maybe you did all this, I dont know, but its kinda of hard to know for sure that you’ve seen all there is to see when there are things you can find that are not marked in any way. There are even secret events where the npc involved is a ghost and only appears at night! its kinda hard to know for sure.
There’s no time for that stuff when you need to grind out mats for ascended. I didn’t even kittening know that the mats for ascended were time gated. Now I will be even further behind and I can’t afford to raise a weapon crafting trade to 500.
you can actually harvest materials while doing that stuff if you want.
Thats how I play and my weapon crafting is at around kitten
didnt spend a single copper to get it there either.
My artificer is at like 422. I don’t even have weaponsmithing or huntsman.
This is so lame.
I am leveling artificer up as well.
But really its not so bad, what I do is 15 mins of gathering gets me the wood and ore I need. Then go to do a world event or two, sell the rares and use the profit to buy the ectos (sometimes I refine the rares directly but generally its cheaper time wise to just sell and buy) and craft 1 exotic or two that will get you up a couple of levels!
I am leveling artificer up as well.
But really its not so bad, what I do is 15 mins of gathering gets me the wood and ore I need. Then go to do a world event or two, sell the rares and use the profit to buy the ectos (sometimes I refine the rares directly but generally its cheaper time wise to just sell and buy) and craft 1 exotic or two that will get you up a couple of levels!
Until i see an ori node in every dungeon im going to say crafting to 500 is bad
No thanks. I’ll probably stick around in GW2 until the time where having full ascended becomes expected, and then I’m gone.
Seems like ANet doesn’t cater to players whose playstyle deviates from champion zerg farming and sitting at a crafting station.
No thanks. I’ll probably stick around in GW2 until the time where having full ascended becomes expected, and then I’m gone.
Seems like ANet doesn’t cater to players whose playstyle deviates from champion zerg farming and sitting at a crafting station.
Me too. I just can’t make myself do the leveling.
Anything I post is just the opinion of a very vocal minority of 1.
if the past is any indication everyone will have no trouble acquiring a full set of ascended gear by that time.
I mean we’re one year in, can we say there is any content that requires exotic gear?
if the past is any indication everyone will have no trouble acquiring a full set of ascended gear by that time.
I mean we’re one year in, can we say there is any content that requires exotic gear?
Would you rather do WvW in blues or exotics? Would you rather run Fractals in blues or exotics? Yeah, you’re technically right. Exotics aren’t required, but you’re making things more difficult for yourself and you’re hurting your group by choosing to run in blues. Being at a constant disadvantage against other players isn’t fun.
if the past is any indication everyone will have no trouble acquiring a full set of ascended gear by that time.
I mean we’re one year in, can we say there is any content that requires exotic gear?
I had sometime tell me that in WvW I should increase my armor above X because of ascended weapons. This X would require 100% defensive setup. Now I don’t think it’s necessary, but perceptions are already out there that ascended weapons is changing things.
Anything I post is just the opinion of a very vocal minority of 1.
I am leveling artificer up as well.
But really its not so bad, what I do is 15 mins of gathering gets me the wood and ore I need. Then go to do a world event or two, sell the rares and use the profit to buy the ectos (sometimes I refine the rares directly but generally its cheaper time wise to just sell and buy) and craft 1 exotic or two that will get you up a couple of levels!
Until i see an ori node in every dungeon im going to say crafting to 500 is bad
Until I see tokens in every explorable area I’m going to say dungeon tokens are bad.
/sarcasm
That logic doesn’t really work. If we saw rewards for every gameplay type in every gameplay type, that makes is pointless to actually do things like explore and find new, cool places and things that you might not have otherwise found. If I got glory points for doing things in the Plains of Ashford, that could mean that I don’t go into sPvP and have the fun that I might have.
I agree with the OP. While I don’t stand disillusioned with the game, I probably won’t have a Legendary or Ascended weapon because I like playing the game, not grinding out mats or speed-running the most efficient time:gold spot. I have 3 80’s, 1 geared in multiple exotic sets, about 160g in my wallet, and 5 other alts under 55. Playing the game as I do (for enjoyment) I’ll never gather the necessary mats or gold to make/buy a Legendary. If I amass most of the mats needed for an ascended wep then I’ll prob give it a go; but I’m not breaking my back playing boring a grind just to get a shiny.
As a GW1 veteran, the ultimate shinies were hard to acquire, looked amazing, and had absolutely no stat advantage over a blue vendor item. But it looked awesome and garnered prestige. I had hoped that GW2 Legendaries and Ascendeds would be the same…sadly, they are not. They give those who grind it out a stat advantage. And it may not be much now, but when Ascended gear rolls around, look out.
For now, I continue to play for enjoyment, not chasing 8000AP, not being led around by the LS, not mat farming or doing any other chores. If anyone wants to do some DEs with me, I’m currently enjoying my lvl 28 thief in the Shivers.
Flixx Gatebuster, Orwynn Lightgrave, Seras Snapdragon
[TTBH] [HATE], Yak’s Bend(NA)
[TTBH] [HATE], Yak’s Bend(NA)
I am leveling artificer up as well.
But really its not so bad, what I do is 15 mins of gathering gets me the wood and ore I need. Then go to do a world event or two, sell the rares and use the profit to buy the ectos (sometimes I refine the rares directly but generally its cheaper time wise to just sell and buy) and craft 1 exotic or two that will get you up a couple of levels!
LMAO! 15mina of gather might net you 10ori at best.
Oh boy it’s getting deep.
Team Peenk
I am leveling artificer up as well.
But really its not so bad, what I do is 15 mins of gathering gets me the wood and ore I need. Then go to do a world event or two, sell the rares and use the profit to buy the ectos (sometimes I refine the rares directly but generally its cheaper time wise to just sell and buy) and craft 1 exotic or two that will get you up a couple of levels!
LMAO! 15mina of gather might net you 10ori at best.
Oh boy it’s getting deep.
Unless you go to gw2nodes.com and follow the maps there, once a day. 15 minutes gets you three zones of ori and ancient wood if you ignore mobs and use waypoints.
if the past is any indication everyone will have no trouble acquiring a full set of ascended gear by that time.
I mean we’re one year in, can we say there is any content that requires exotic gear?
Would you rather do WvW in blues or exotics? Would you rather run Fractals in blues or exotics? Yeah, you’re technically right. Exotics aren’t required, but you’re making things more difficult for yourself and you’re hurting your group by choosing to run in blues. Being at a constant disadvantage against other players isn’t fun.
Depends what content I am playing. In the open world I honestly play in yellows for a little extra challenge. Dungeons and Fractals I would do in Exotics.
As for a disadvantage against other players… Personally I dont believe that really exists anywhere in the game.
sPvP everyone is equal
PvE is entirely co-operative so you can never be disadvantaged against other players no matter what you’re wearing or what they’re wearing.
WvW to a degree yes, but not as much as people thing. Once early in the morning I decided to do an experiment try to do some WvW with no armor whatsover on. I could solo caravans and PvE events, In a small group we took supply depots, I even won a couple of 1v1 fights and by the time a lot of people started showing up I had 7 kills with just 2 deaths! Of course I would rather be in ascended armor and trickets given the choice, there is no advantage in being at a disadvantage.
Though keep in mind thats not what the argument is here. The argument here is if the game will ever come to a point where you’re required to have ascended gear. For me that point would be when there is content that without ascended gear you’d stand essentially no chance of completing it. IE without such a set you cannot get enough dps to out do the mobs regen. Or you dont have enough armor to sustain a hit without dieing. Or in case of WvW you’re often loosing fights because it just takes too long to kill your enemy and they can kill quickly. So far not even exotics satisfy this criteria in my opinion.
if the past is any indication everyone will have no trouble acquiring a full set of ascended gear by that time.
I mean we’re one year in, can we say there is any content that requires exotic gear?
I had sometime tell me that in WvW I should increase my armor above X because of ascended weapons. This X would require 100% defensive setup. Now I don’t think it’s necessary, but perceptions are already out there that ascended weapons is changing things.
Perception yes, in most MMOs gear is crucial, when you’ve played game after game where its important to get the best gear else you stand no chance at PvP it is hard to accept things can work differently.
I am leveling artificer up as well.
But really its not so bad, what I do is 15 mins of gathering gets me the wood and ore I need. Then go to do a world event or two, sell the rares and use the profit to buy the ectos (sometimes I refine the rares directly but generally its cheaper time wise to just sell and buy) and craft 1 exotic or two that will get you up a couple of levels!
LMAO! 15mina of gather might net you 10ori at best.
Oh boy it’s getting deep.
Unless you go to gw2nodes.com and follow the maps there, once a day. 15 minutes gets you three zones of ori and ancient wood if you ignore mobs and use waypoints.
Exactly.
It might not be fun but it works great.
If you’re impatient and dont enjoy finding the notes yourself its an option way better then spending so much gold for sure!
I am leveling artificer up as well.
But really its not so bad, what I do is 15 mins of gathering gets me the wood and ore I need. Then go to do a world event or two, sell the rares and use the profit to buy the ectos (sometimes I refine the rares directly but generally its cheaper time wise to just sell and buy) and craft 1 exotic or two that will get you up a couple of levels!
LMAO! 15mina of gather might net you 10ori at best.
Oh boy it’s getting deep.
Unless you go to gw2nodes.com and follow the maps there, once a day. 15 minutes gets you three zones of ori and ancient wood if you ignore mobs and use waypoints.
Exactly.
It might not be fun but it works great.
If you’re impatient and dont enjoy finding the notes yourself its an option way better then spending so much gold for sure!
The farmers right now are cursing my name for publicly revealing the secret. lol