Guild Wars 2

I don’t think changing the rewards is going to make dungeons “more attractive.” You might see more people doing them every day, but the activity won’t be more interesting to them. Most folks will just feel that it’s a reason to grind, not a reason to play for fun.

The problem I see with dungeons is mostly that people have figured out how to min-max runs in a way that nearly everyone can follow, so the content feels trivial to veterans. This can only be addressed by overhauling the dungeons, introducing new ones, or making massive changes to foe AI. None of those things are easy to do well (heck, they aren’t that easy to do poorly either).

I think the main problem with dungeons is that they are stale. It doesn’t matter how good the experience is, once you’ve done it a dozen or so times it loses it’s luster.

TooBz.3065:

I think the main problem with dungeons is that they are stale. It doesn’t matter how good the experience is, once you’ve done it a dozen or so times it loses it’s luster.

I somewhat agree with this. But I want to note that whenever ArenaNet has gone through and made serious and extensive changes to a dungeon, it’s been received rather poorly. Revamping existing dungeons has already proved that it isn’t worth the effort.

And honestly, I’m okay with dungeons getting a little old by about the 6th time. (2nd time per route) The amount of tokens required for a full set is such that you need to have the route on lockdown pretty quickly if you want to get the equipment without going insane.

TooBz.3065:

I think the main problem with dungeons is that they are stale. It doesn’t matter how good the experience is, once you’ve done it a dozen or so times it loses it’s luster.

That seems to be the issue with pve in general

Devildoc.6721:

Karisho.3058:

So, I’ve been playing Gw2 since the release, mostly PvE. My problem, and I think, it’s a problem, that a lot of PvE players have, is, that the dungeons became really boring. The only reason for me to run them, is the gold. I was thinking about some ways to change that. The first thing would be, to add new dungeons. Now, the problem with that is, that they will also become boring after some time.
What I was thinking about the most was to add something to the dungeons to make them attractive again. Just an item, that can only drop in this dungeon. It shouldn’t be something game changing that gives advantages over players, that don’t have the items. Rather should it be something collectible, something that adds a bit prestige. For example a miniature or a special skin.
Now, I want to know, what do you think about this idea?

The problem with dungeons is they scrapped the multi-role group of GW1 (Minion Master, Tank, Heal, DPS, Protection, Interrupt, Debuffing, Battery, not all roles would be used in a group at all times, you might not have interruption, you might not have a tank, or a minion master, but they were all options for roles that were valuable in some places) for the singular role of GW2, DPS. All “support” options are done just as well in glass cannon dps gear and specs basically the only real “support” is stacking might and fury, dropping banners and conjured weapons, and pulling or punting mobs into a stack to whack down.

It’s very stale and boring.

What kills any attempts at having actual support builds or control builds as GW2 manifesto envisioned as a “soft trinity” is 2 things.

1. Mobs hit too hard and too slowly. Making it so that you can dodge almost everything, and if you don’t dodge, you just die. There’s no real value to healing or defensive boons, when people are good enough to dodge everything, or bad enough that they’re just getting one shot.
2. Defiance. Why bother with trying to interrupt mobs and coordinate your CC’s to line up to where they have no defiance stacks left and nobody uses a CC effect until you need to interrupt.. when it’s just easier to expect everyone to dodge the big hit instead of trying to interrupt it? Break bars are okay I guess but that’s a gimmicky way of implementing control role into the game.

To solve #1, mobs need to hit faster but for less damage, you shouldn’t expect to be able to dodge 100% of their attacks, only the most important telegraphed attacks. With more moderate damage over time that you can’t just avoid 100% of it, you’ll need to heal, and you’ll need defensive stats to mitigate damage to make it manageable.

To solve #2. First off, defiance sucks, yes it rewards really organized teamplay if everyone is on voip doing a cycle of CC effects and NOBODY uses a CC effect out of turn, but that level of coordination is something you should expect from raids, not normal PVE dungeons, not from PUGs, not from people not in voice communication with each other, and not for just 1-3g, that kind of effort people need something more to reward them for. So that needs fixed first and foremost, but secondly, there needs to be aoe effects that you just cannot dodge or block through, you need to interrupt them. I’ve always found it silly that a boss can lay out this huge aoe field, and people just do a little roll, while still inside the AOE, and be invincible to the damage. You should have to be outside of the effect to not get hit, not just getting invulnerability frames. This would also solve stacking if you can’t just dodge inside the aoe to avoid damage.

And this folks is my problem with GW 2 and dungeons! I can do the meta crap, I have the zerker gear, but its just too stale and boring, and the naysayers say I just hate meta and want to be a special snowflake and just do it the boring way being different.

Yumiko Ishida.3769:

Devildoc.6721:

Karisho.3058:

So, I’ve been playing Gw2 since the release, mostly PvE. My problem, and I think, it’s a problem, that a lot of PvE players have, is, that the dungeons became really boring. The only reason for me to run them, is the gold. I was thinking about some ways to change that. The first thing would be, to add new dungeons. Now, the problem with that is, that they will also become boring after some time.
What I was thinking about the most was to add something to the dungeons to make them attractive again. Just an item, that can only drop in this dungeon. It shouldn’t be something game changing that gives advantages over players, that don’t have the items. Rather should it be something collectible, something that adds a bit prestige. For example a miniature or a special skin.
Now, I want to know, what do you think about this idea?

The problem with dungeons is they scrapped the multi-role group of GW1 (Minion Master, Tank, Heal, DPS, Protection, Interrupt, Debuffing, Battery, not all roles would be used in a group at all times, you might not have interruption, you might not have a tank, or a minion master, but they were all options for roles that were valuable in some places) for the singular role of GW2, DPS. All “support” options are done just as well in glass cannon dps gear and specs basically the only real “support” is stacking might and fury, dropping banners and conjured weapons, and pulling or punting mobs into a stack to whack down.

It’s very stale and boring.

What kills any attempts at having actual support builds or control builds as GW2 manifesto envisioned as a “soft trinity” is 2 things.

1. Mobs hit too hard and too slowly. Making it so that you can dodge almost everything, and if you don’t dodge, you just die. There’s no real value to healing or defensive boons, when people are good enough to dodge everything, or bad enough that they’re just getting one shot.
2. Defiance. Why bother with trying to interrupt mobs and coordinate your CC’s to line up to where they have no defiance stacks left and nobody uses a CC effect until you need to interrupt.. when it’s just easier to expect everyone to dodge the big hit instead of trying to interrupt it? Break bars are okay I guess but that’s a gimmicky way of implementing control role into the game.

To solve #1, mobs need to hit faster but for less damage, you shouldn’t expect to be able to dodge 100% of their attacks, only the most important telegraphed attacks. With more moderate damage over time that you can’t just avoid 100% of it, you’ll need to heal, and you’ll need defensive stats to mitigate damage to make it manageable.

To solve #2. First off, defiance sucks, yes it rewards really organized teamplay if everyone is on voip doing a cycle of CC effects and NOBODY uses a CC effect out of turn, but that level of coordination is something you should expect from raids, not normal PVE dungeons, not from PUGs, not from people not in voice communication with each other, and not for just 1-3g, that kind of effort people need something more to reward them for. So that needs fixed first and foremost, but secondly, there needs to be aoe effects that you just cannot dodge or block through, you need to interrupt them. I’ve always found it silly that a boss can lay out this huge aoe field, and people just do a little roll, while still inside the AOE, and be invincible to the damage. You should have to be outside of the effect to not get hit, not just getting invulnerability frames. This would also solve stacking if you can’t just dodge inside the aoe to avoid damage.

And this folks is my problem with GW 2 and dungeons! I can do the meta crap, I have the zerker gear, but its just too stale and boring, and the naysayers say I just hate meta and want to be a special snowflake and just do it the boring way being different.

There is plenty of support, it is just another excuse to bring back a trinity or people to lazy to make lfgs

Yumiko Ishida.3769:

And this folks is my problem with GW 2 and dungeons! I can do the meta crap, I have the zerker gear, but its just too stale and boring, and the naysayers say I just hate meta and want to be a special snowflake and just do it the boring way being different.

Then don’t do meta and play how you want to play. Nobody is trying to stop you. With the numbers of people complaining about how meta is boring, I can’t believe you can’t form a guild or find each other in a LFG.

Thaddeus.4891:

Then don’t do meta and play how you want to play. Nobody is trying to stop you. With the numbers of people complaining about how meta is boring, I can’t believe you can’t form a guild or find each other in a LFG.

You can not play as you want cause community forces to play a specific style either meta-zerk or kick. Most lfg’s are like these, including gear check, no necros, no rangers, not this not that. Too many restrictions for a mod which suppose to aim on teamplay not just DPS.

In many ways new players are eliminated by “dungeon community”, while veterans who try different things have to roll-back to meta.

The first year of GW2, dungeons were attractive & fun, not because people did not know how to speed run them with stack, but because people played as they want.

Even if ArenaNet creates new dungeons with the same “philosophy”, they will be “dead” in 4-6 months. Therefore they need to bring some roles on the table, and they can do that by re-design/re-work the existing ones.

Since day one people have written posts and posts on how dungeons can be more fun, more challenging but Arena never took the time to read them.

As long as events like SW have better rewards and you can play as you like, I do not see any future for dungeons.

KaizerGr.4815:

Thaddeus.4891:

Then don’t do meta and play how you want to play. Nobody is trying to stop you. With the numbers of people complaining about how meta is boring, I can’t believe you can’t form a guild or find each other in a LFG.

You can not play as you want cause community forces to play a specific style either meta-zerk or kick. Most lfg’s are like these, including gear check, no necros, no rangers, not this not that. Too many restrictions for a mod which suppose to aim on teamplay not just DPS.

In many ways new players are eliminated by “dungeon community”, while veterans who try different things have to roll-back to meta.

The first year of GW2, dungeons were attractive & fun, not because people did not know how to speed run them with stack, but because people played as they want.

Even if ArenaNet creates new dungeons with the same “philosophy”, they will be “dead” in 4-6 months. Therefore they need to bring some roles on the table, and they can do that by re-design/re-work the existing ones.

Since day one people have written posts and posts on how dungeons can be more fun, more challenging but Arena never took the time to read them.

As long as events like SW have better rewards and you can play as you like, I do not see any future for dungeons.

Gw2 seriously needs a lfg tutorial, they did it fot dodging :p

And people that do want to play different are too afraid to open their mouths in game for fear of being ostracized and blocked and the blockers telling other to block them causing a snow balling effect where you can never be heard from again and never able to play with anyone as you are eventually blocked on every player’s list/account.

Not saying it happened to me yet, but I’m always expecting the worst.

So instead, I just ignore dungeons all together. I can craft everything a dungeon gives or do pvp for the skins.

Yumiko Ishida.3769:

And people that do want to play different are too afraid to open their mouths in game for fear of being ostracized and blocked and the blockers telling other to block them causing a snow balling effect where you can never be heard from again and never able to play with anyone as you are eventually blocked on every player’s list/account.

Not saying it happened to me yet, but I’m always expecting the worst.

So instead, I just ignore dungeons all together. I can craft everything a dungeon gives or do pvp for the skins.

That is the problem, you are expecting the worse which sadly is just plain lazy of the person. The forum has plenty of hate for the meta but they themselves want to force premade lfg with requirements to change for them and only thinking about themselves. And again I’ll say gw2 needs a lfg tutorial just because the usual responses here are easily solvable with making a lfg

pandas.9450:

Gw2 seriously needs a lfg tutorial, they did it fot dodging :p

GW2 need a tutorial by Arena on how they should run their dungeons.
The idea of creating your own lfg just to play as you want is an excuse, cause meta has become a “plague”.

Example :
Before 2-3days a ranger opened a typical lfg on CoE “Full Run-lvl80pls” and after some minutes was kicked by the party cause he was not meta…..try to explain to this guy why was kicked, and whats the point to go again to any dungeon or create an lfg when anytime he can be kicked because he wants to plays as he likes with any class he likes.

KaizerGr.4815:

pandas.9450:

Gw2 seriously needs a lfg tutorial, they did it fot dodging :p

GW2 need a tutorial by Arena on how they should run their dungeons.
The idea of creating your own lfg just to play as you want is an excuse, cause meta has become a “plague”.

I see play how you want is only limited to few

Edit: try to explain someone joining a lfg wth clear requirements, yet you do not know the dungeon at all and then stay silent the whole run an dying. As soon they vote to kick you, you start talking but insulting everyone cause you can’t play how you want. Was the ranger running bear bow with a pet always on aggro or ignoring the lfg entirely? Ofc you arenot always meeting the nicest people but that applies to both sides and even in normal pve (sw)

KaizerGr.4815:

pandas.9450:

Gw2 seriously needs a lfg tutorial, they did it fot dodging :p

GW2 need a tutorial by Arena on how they should run their dungeons.
The idea of creating your own lfg just to play as you want is an excuse, cause meta has become a “plague”.

Example :
Before 2-3days a ranger opened a typical lfg on CoE “Full Run-lvl80pls” and after some minutes was kicked by the party cause he was not meta…..try to explain to this guy why was kicked, and whats the point to go again to any dungeon or create an lfg when anytime he can be kicked because he wants to plays as he likes with any class he likes.

Yep and this is made worse because there are no party leaders anymore and anyone can kick anyone with enough votes, even the LFG maker him/herself! I have an ele as a main (Yumiko) so by meta standards; I’m always wanted. In GW 1, I was never needed as elementalist was the worst class.

I was the GW 2 ranger equivalant in GW 1, but as an ele. GW 2 comes around and eles are pretty much the most sought after and rangers are the least wanted. A total reversal!

Yumiko Ishida.3769:

I was the GW 2 ranger equivalant in GW 1, but as an ele. GW 2 comes around and eles are pretty much the most sought after and rangers are the least wanted. A total reversal!

Pardon what? Eles where bad in GW1? why then did so many people want searing flames eles? Off topic i know, but i always felt their was no real off class in GW1, at least when it came to PVE, i never ran into it anywhere near as bad as i have in GW2 with the Ranger.

Karisho.3058:

My problem with dungeons is, that there is no reason anymore to run them except for gold. Why would it be unnecessary to add something like the special dropps in fractals to dungeons?

I don’t see the point myself.

If you are really bored with them as you say you are, then why do them.

Having a rare drop that is account bound, might give you a reason to do them but it won’t make you any less bored.

Because hard mode, and all the anti elemental defense we get on enemies in HM. Ele hate was also really supported by balance devs like Izzy. I eventually 7 heroed all content and not bothered looking for a group that needed an ele.

Searing flames eles was the only good thing eles were good for…. if you had a team build to capitalize on it. Otherwise it was discordway and sabway that never needed an ele.

I was even butting heads with meta then when I was a 7 year GW 1 vet.

Also ele’s long cast times etc, allowed every class to beat them even rangers pve or pvp.

Nightfall says hi with all its mesmer enemies!

Ele was the most frustrating class in GW 1 to play, and I did it cause I wanted it hard and to be different, but being different meant not many groups wanted you. Unless the group catered around Searing Flames, her only good build.

Yumiko Ishida.3769:

Because hard mode, and all the anti elemental defense we get on enemies in HM. Ele hate was also really supported by balance devs like Izzy. I eventually 7 heroed all content and not bothered looking for a group that needed an ele.

Searing flames eles was the only good thing eles were good for…. if you had a team build to capitalize on it. Otherwise it was discordway and sabway that never needed an ele.

I was even butting heads with meta then when I was a 7 year GW 1 vet.

Also ele’s long cast times etc, allowed every class to beat them even rangers pve or pvp.

Nightfall says hi with all its mesmer enemies!

Ele was the most frustrating class in GW 1 to play, and I did it cause I wanted it hard and to be different, but being different meant not many groups wanted you. Unless the group catered around Searing Flames, her only good build.

Hm, i never had many problems really in pve, with my ele in hardmode, i dont know why of course. Could be i ran a E/P Build of my own making…

I never once used a meta build in my GW1 7 years of playing..for well any content, heck even my searings flame build(which i really only ran for a few dungeons) was different. Never had a problem finding a group though, thats just me i know everyone has different experiences!

pandas.9450

try to explain someone joining a lfg wth clear requirements, yet you do not know the dungeon at all and then stay silent the whole run an dying. As soon they vote to kick you, you start talking but insulting everyone cause you can’t play how you want. Was the ranger running bear bow with a pet always on aggro or ignoring the lfg entirely?

Probably you do not pug very much are you? cause every 2 days I watch or hear examples similar to this. Ranger was 7kAP, knew about CoE, did not play LB, and did not insult anyone even when was kicked. He just wanted to play a different class for a change.

You want another example, lets see CM P3, my thief friend had to go, so I post “P3exp – lvl80 +3kAP”, the party was formed by previous paths by 2 War and an Ele .

A 12kAP Mesmer joined and was kicked, they change my lfg post asking for a Thief even when I explain them that Mesmer is fine.

Finally we had to run 4 the path because nobody joined…..took more time more press on me as a guard and no fun at the end.

I understand and accept people who want the best gear, the exact class, full dps.
But lfg made everyone to ask the same things, so too many restrictions.

Dungeons need to bring back the “teamplay” not the “soloplay”, its like once in SE I asked a War to drop a strength banner and reply to me “what? u want me to loose my dps from signets”

Anyway, I really want dungeons to be fun and challenging and I hope that after HoT Arena can show them some love, because always the feeling on doing a dungeon is different than doing a boss with 50 people hitting on it.

Today this feeling is lost somewhere between run and zerk. Only in high lvl FoTM you can enjoy it.

Yumiko Ishida.3769:

And people that do want to play different are too afraid to open their mouths in game for fear of being ostracized and blocked and the blockers telling other to block them causing a snow balling effect where you can never be heard from again and never able to play with anyone as you are eventually blocked on every player’s list/account.

Not saying it happened to me yet, but I’m always expecting the worst.

O.o

Neurotic much?

More paths
P1)
P2) —- LVL 1 — 2 options: 1 or 2
P3)


P4) --- LVL 2: same 2 options
P5)

P6)—- LVL 3: option 2

1.- Do each path in normal way (example: fast run for reward)

2.- Do boss with certain conditions (example: at 10% of life do X…).
If success u get a especial skill, attack, weapon u need on path 4 and 5. Repeteable + AP

KaizerGr.4815:

pandas.9450

try to explain someone joining a lfg wth clear requirements, yet you do not know the dungeon at all and then stay silent the whole run an dying. As soon they vote to kick you, you start talking but insulting everyone cause you can’t play how you want. Was the ranger running bear bow with a pet always on aggro or ignoring the lfg entirely?

Probably you do not pug very much are you? cause every 2 days I watch or hear examples similar to this. Ranger was 7kAP, knew about CoE, did not play LB, and she did not insult anyone even when was kicked. She just wanted to play a different class for a change.

You want another example, lets see CM P3, my thief friend had to go, so I post “P3exp – lvl80 +3kAP”, the party was formed by previous paths by 2 War and an Ele .

A 12kAP Mesmer joined and was kicked, they change my lfg post asking for a Thief even when I explain them that Mesmer is fine.

Finally we had to run 4 the path because nobody joined…..took more time more press on me as a guard and no fun at the end.

I understand and accept people who want the best gear, the exact class, full dps.
But lfg made everyone to ask the same things, so too many restrictions.

Dungeons need to bring back the “teamplay” not the “soloplay”, its like once in SE I asked a War to drop a strength banner and reply to me “what? u want me to loose my dps from signets”

Anyway, I really want dungeons to be fun and challenging and I hope that after HoT Arena can show them some love, because always the feeling on doing a dungeon is different than doing a boss with 50 people hitting on it.

Today this feeling is lost somewhere between run and zerk. Only in high lvl FoTM you can enjoy it.

I pug majority of times which will always include 70-80% someone who doesn’t know what to do but not always kicked because he bothers to actually talk or actually listen. The cm party you had was a speed one and those will most likely include a thief for stealt, if you want to label your group as the representation for the whole dungeon community, you are being narrow sighted and your other example did not make sense at all xD signets are generally not meta because those are selfish boons but you wanted him to bring a banner which is meta xD You didn’t want him to play how he wants which has been your whole argument to let others play how they want dungeons are all about teamwork but that applies to both sides

KaizerGr.4815:

You can not play as you want cause community forces to play a specific style either meta-zerk or kick. Most lfg’s are like these, including gear check, no necros, no rangers, not this not that. Too many restrictions for a mod which suppose to aim on teamplay not just DPS.

I almost always make my own LFG, with my guild or when I’m alone. I never once asked for gear check, no necros, no rangers, zerk only, meta only. Never, not once. And all the time, my friends or guildmate ask for something like that I always ask them to get rid of it. But still, I’m able to do any dungeon I want, at pretty much anytime.

My only requirement is to be level 80 and sometime to be experienced. I never kicked someone that was cleric, PHIW or used a weird build/weapons. If they can pull their own weight I’ll stay in the group. If they were really bad, I would simply quit the party after the path and continue with another group.

So If I’m able to do it, then my guess is that you are either just so bad at LFG that it’s laughable. Or you are just lying to prove your point.

pandas.9450:

I pug majority of times which will always include 70-80% someone who doesn’t know what to do but not always kicked because he bothers to actually talk or actually listen. The cm party you had was a speed one and those will most likely include a thief for stealt, if you want to label your group as the representation for the whole dungeon community, you are being narrow sighted and your other example did not make sense at all xD signets are generally not meta because those are selfish boons but you wanted him to bring a banner which is meta xD You didn’t want him to play how he wants which has been your whole argument to let others play how they want dungeons are all about teamwork but that applies to both sides

If you do not get the point from my example is not my prob.

Let others play as they want BUT also be a teamplayer. Of course applies to both sides.
Meta brings dps but forcing it is wrong.

Since when a gear soldier War with full signets transform to meta when he drops a banner? :P and was not kicked so I respected how he wanted to play
As for my CM party they should have know that Mesmer Cloak = skip some parts = more speed that doing by 4 people.

I said what I have to say, really we can dance many posts around meta or no meta, but the question is how to make dungeons more attractive, which I have already answer

best luck to your pugs.

KaizerGr.4815:

pandas.9450:

I pug majority of times which will always include 70-80% someone who doesn’t know what to do but not always kicked because he bothers to actually talk or actually listen. The cm party you had was a speed one and those will most likely include a thief for stealt, if you want to label your group as the representation for the whole dungeon community, you are being narrow sighted and your other example did not make sense at all xD signets are generally not meta because those are selfish boons but you wanted him to bring a banner which is meta xD You didn’t want him to play how he wants which has been your whole argument to let others play how they want dungeons are all about teamwork but that applies to both sides

If you do not get the point from my example is not my prob.

Let others play as they want BUT also be a teamplayer. Of course applies to both sides.
Meta brings dps but forcing it is wrong.

Since when a gear soldier War with full signets transform to meta when he drops a banner? :P and was not kicked so I respected how he wanted to play
As for my CM party they should have know that Mesmer Cloak = skip some parts = more speed that doing by 4 people.

I said what I have to say, really we can dance many posts around meta or no meta, but the question is how to make dungeons more attractive, which I have already answer

best luck to your pugs.

If you can’t understand no one is forcing you to do meta or not even agree on a lfg tutorial, there is no helping people who only care for themselves, good luck

pandas.9450:

There is plenty of support, it is just another excuse to bring back a trinity or people to lazy to make lfgs

“plenty of support” yeah right. Stacking might and fury, reflects, and maybe spreading Aegis is the only support of note. everything else is just stack, whack, and dodge. All those “support” boons and reflects are also done perfectly well while in zerker gear while dps’ing at the same time too.

So you’re not support, you’re still DPS.

This is every profession’s role in every dungeon in GW2:

Warrior: DPS, Might/Vuln Stacking (if PS, stacking might by doing dps and getting crits), Banners
Ele: DPS, Might/Fury Stacking, Conjured Weapons (all while primarily doing dps)
Guardian: DPS, Reflects, Aegis, Vuln
Mesmer: DPS, Reflects, Time Warp (and very rarely boon stripping)
Thief: DPS, trash skipping (and very rarely boon stripping)
Engi: DPS, Might/Vuln stacking, trash skipping
Ranger: DPS, spotter
Necro: haha just kidding people don’t bring necros.

Devildoc.6721:

“plenty of support” yeah right. Stacking might and fury, reflects, and maybe spreading Aegis is the only support of note. everything else is just stack, whack, and dodge. All those “support” boons and reflects are also done perfectly well while in zerker gear while dps’ing at the same time too.

So you’re not support, you’re still DPS.

This is every profession’s role in every dungeon in GW2:

So you want that a DPS character can’t support and a Support character can’t DPS?

Thaddeus.4891:

I almost always make my own LFG, with my guild or when I’m alone. I never once asked for gear check, no necros, no rangers, zerk only, meta only. Never, not once. And all the time, my friends or guildmate ask for something like that I always ask them to get rid of it.
So If I’m able to do it, then my guess is that you are either just so bad at LFG that it’s laughable. Or you are just lying to prove your point.

There nothing to prove by lying, sooner or later you will be caught.
And at my age try to prove that a donkey do not have wings is waste of time.

Because you do not put restrictions on lfg, does not make everyone not putting one.
I was speaking generally you take it personally.

EU server right now, TA lfg paths UP & FW, 5out of 5 asking for Meta-Zerk.
http://oi57.tinypic.com/28qrjgo.jpg

If you find this fine and do not see any problem with that, then I rest my case.
No point to argue or asking to change things.

Devildoc.6721:

pandas.9450:

There is plenty of support, it is just another excuse to bring back a trinity or people to lazy to make lfgs

“plenty of support” yeah right. Stacking might and fury, reflects, and maybe spreading Aegis is the only support of note. everything else is just stack, whack, and dodge. All those “support” boons and reflects are also done perfectly well while in zerker gear while dps’ing at the same time too.

So you’re not support, you’re still DPS.

This is every profession’s role in every dungeon in GW2:

Warrior: DPS, Might/Vuln Stacking (if PS, stacking might by doing dps and getting crits), Banners
Ele: DPS, Might/Fury Stacking, Conjured Weapons (all while primarily doing dps)
Guardian: DPS, Reflects, Aegis, Vuln
Mesmer: DPS, Reflects, Time Warp (and very rarely boon stripping)
Thief: DPS, trash skipping (and very rarely boon stripping)
Engi: DPS, Might/Vuln stacking, trash skipping
Ranger: DPS, spotter
Necro: haha just kidding people don’t bring necros.

Lets bring back trinity with a meatshield infront with all boons removed on them while supports stack behind as usual? I really don’t know what to say since necs are the only ones who have support that other classes do better

Edit: kaizer, lfg tutorial again

KaizerGr.4815:

There nothing to prove by lying, sooner or later you will be caught.
And at my age try to prove that a donkey do not have wings is waste of time.

Because you do not put restrictions on lfg, does not make everyone not putting one.
I was speaking generally you take it personally.

EU server right now, TA lfg paths UP & FW, 5out of 5 asking for Meta-Zerk.
http://oi57.tinypic.com/28qrjgo.jpg

If you find this fine and do not see any problem with that, then I rest my case.
No point to argue or asking to change things.

Then do like me and CREATE YOU OWN LFG. Why do you absolutely need to go into an existing LFG? Why??? I see nothing bad about those LFG. These people want to play that way and they are free to ask for people that want to play the same way they want to play. Like you are free to play the way you want with the people you want.

Now two outcome can happen.

1) You post your own LFG and people that like to play like you want join and you have a fun time

2) Nobody ever join your LFG and you realize that nobody want to play like you.

I’m pretty sure it will be the first choice because I always have plenty of non zerker and non meta players in my group. We can stay in contact and I’ll give you all the PHIW pugs I got in exchange for all those toxic elitist you got. Deal?

From my experience with instances, the issue isn’t the dungeons themselves but the community.

The lack of Tank and Healer means you got a bunch of DPS running around like chickens with their heads cutoff. Because of the lack of healer they skip trash, do all these stupid weird mechanics to bypass things that often times fails because newer people have no idea whats going on.

Instances are a chore to learn because the community doesn’t do them like they’re supposed to be done, which is usually very straight forward and easy to jump into, instead there is all kinds of tricks and semi-exploits that are done that isn’t straight forward.

Fractals aren’t very jump in and try it friendly, to me fractals seem extremely out of place for the game. It doesn’t fit into the flavor of the game nor the general flow or appeal. It’s not a choose how to play kind of thing, it’s not a horizontal progression type like most of the game. The reliance and dependance on Agony Resistance is an absurd mechanic to introduce grinding and progression in a game that doesn’t have progression. So it feels extremely out of place and foreign. I don’t like it, it’s a stupid mechanic that doesn’t actually do anything. It’s not serving a progression point to have agony damage in the game. It’s just something that’s haphazardly put in afterwards as an artificial way to make the same content appear “harder”. It was a lazy cop out.

I was thinking this as well… I would love a set of nice looking weapon skins to drop at the end of dungeons with a decent drop rate → Higher than exotics but less than rare.

Personally, I love it in other games when I finish dungeons etc. and the loot drops but I don’t get this feeling in gw2.

And don’t use the “but fractals” excuse. Fractals aren’t the same as dungeons. They are harder more tedious and designed to be optional endgame challenges for people that want it.

Thaddeus.4891:

We can stay in contact and I’ll give you all the PHIW pugs I got in exchange for all those toxic elitist you got. Deal?

Sure We can stay in contact, I add you in my friend list, I even send you a pm.
Why you want mine toxicity? find yours, sorry no deal.
I have even a better proposal I quit from dungeon, my friends will also quit and you can have all the toxic elitists you can carry…..how that sounds?,even better how about every regular quits and make dungeons a meta playground. Oops already is.

No point and no hope as dungeon mechanisms stay the same.

Thaddeus.4891:

Devildoc.6721:

“plenty of support” yeah right. Stacking might and fury, reflects, and maybe spreading Aegis is the only support of note. everything else is just stack, whack, and dodge. All those “support” boons and reflects are also done perfectly well while in zerker gear while dps’ing at the same time too.

So you’re not support, you’re still DPS.

This is every profession’s role in every dungeon in GW2:

So you want that a DPS character can’t support and a Support character can’t DPS?

essentially yes, I mean they’ll contribute some damage but their primary role is to do something else.

In GW1 a minion master’s primary role was to raise a minion army and buff it. I mean they could wand attack too but they didn’t carry any direct damage skills and generally did not carry anything but skills to support their specific role. They could autoattack with their weapon I suppose.

A healing monk’s primary role was to heal their group and perhaps provide other supportive buffs and condition/hex cleansing maybe. They could also autoattack with their weapon but they did not bring any damage skills.

An Imbagon build Paragon’s primary role was buffing the group. They still autoattacked with spears, but that was more to keep their adrenaline up so they could use shouts to buff their group.

It’s division of responsibility for the group, making you dependent on your groupmates, where in GW2, it’s like you’re soloing next to 4 other people who are all doing the same thing. You’re responsible for your own heals, your own damage mitigation, your own damage, and the only support you’re getting from your teammates is might stacks and more damage.

I suppose a large part of the problem is that most of your skill bar is predetermined. Half your skills are determined by weapon, 1 of the remaining skills MUST be a heal, and 1 of the remaining skills MUST be an elite, from a realistic choice of 3 options of elites (racials don’t really count)

So since 5 skills are determined by weapon, they’re generally going to be DPS oriented, at least 3 of them, usually all 5.

Or you KaizerGr, and your friends, and the regulars as well can join my guild and we make or own groups all-the-while helping new players that buy the game and be the shining jewel GW 2 deserves, but no one wants right now.

I’m accepting everyone non-toxic and non-meta I also need advisors (officers) and guards (sub-officers)

Devildoc.6721:

Thaddeus.4891:

So you want that a DPS character can’t support and a Support character can’t DPS?

essentially yes, I mean they’ll contribute some damage but their primary role is to do something else.

Well there is plenty of MMO like that. GW2 is build around another concept. Both are good, they just don’t target the same public. GW2 sprend the responsability to the whole party. Everybody need to participate to the support and dps side of PvE.

On the plus side, you don’t rely on other to complete a specific content. You don’t need to wait for a tank and won’t wipe because your healer is a noob. But if everybody do their part you can do incredible things.

On the minus side, you don’t rely on other to complete a specific content. Everybody feel less important and special.

Personnally, i prefer this way and GW2 is good for me. Other ppl prefer the other way and other games are for them. I don’t go on the forum of other game and push to change the game at its very core.

Thaddeus.4891:

Devildoc.6721:

Thaddeus.4891:

So you want that a DPS character can’t support and a Support character can’t DPS?

essentially yes, I mean they’ll contribute some damage but their primary role is to do something else.

Well there is plenty of MMO like that. GW2 is build around another concept. Both are good, they just don’t target the same public. GW2 sprend the responsability to the whole party. Everybody need to participate to the support and dps side of PvE.

On the plus side, you don’t rely on other to complete a specific content. You don’t need to wait for a tank and won’t wipe because your healer is a noob. But if everybody do their part you can do incredible things.

On the minus side, you don’t rely on other to complete a specific content. Everybody feel less important and special.

Personnally, i prefer this way and GW2 is good for me. Other ppl prefer the other way and other games are for them. I don’t go on the forum of other game and push to change the game at its very core.

and the result is this zerker all dps meta that we have now which is stale and boring and makes dungeons a chore to get done as fast as possible for loot rather than having fun.

The game I keep referencing is Guild Wars, you know, the game that GW2 is supposed to be a successor to.

It’s not about “feeling special” it’s about teamwork, rather than just soloing next to 4 other people soloing.

Thaddeus.4891:

Devildoc.6721:

Thaddeus.4891:

So you want that a DPS character can’t support and a Support character can’t DPS?

essentially yes, I mean they’ll contribute some damage but their primary role is to do something else.

Well there is plenty of MMO like that. GW2 is build around another concept. Both are good, they just don’t target the same public. GW2 sprend the responsability to the whole party. Everybody need to participate to the support and dps side of PvE.

On the plus side, you don’t rely on other to complete a specific content. You don’t need to wait for a tank and won’t wipe because your healer is a noob. But if everybody do their part you can do incredible things.

On the minus side, you don’t rely on other to complete a specific content. Everybody feel less important and special.

Personnally, i prefer this way and GW2 is good for me. Other ppl prefer the other way and other games are for them. I don’t go on the forum of other game and push to change the game at its very core.

And guess what? We already have that in GW1. You know, the game that actually went out and changed everything and challenged how MMOs can be played. Sure, monks were the cornerstones of PvP, and most of PvE. But guess what? Rit heals were on par (and eclipsed) monks, and they could after the spirit buffs manage both spirits, offensive support, and powerheals. Necromancers could slot prots or heals, they performed fairly well thanks to soul reaping. Elementalists could go oldschool with Ether Prodigy, or off the walls crazy with Enchants and Ether Renewal, support IWAY-style builds with Ether Prism (it was similar to Shelter for Guardians, except it restored energy instead of health), or lately even turn themselves into energy batteries with Energy Boon (batteries that could put out nice healing)

The only reason Monks dominated the meta (in healing) was that they could compress the most into one bar (and because protting, healing, and cleanses were best left for a single person to handle, to reduce multitasking), and a few of their elites were outright broken (RC and WoH postbuff, Light of Deliverance post NF release till it was nerfed to death, LS, Healing Burst, PnH) and for a normal spell, Divine Boon was crazy useful as well.

But more often than not, there were team compositions that could eschew monks for more “distributed” sources of defense and healing. Good examples are Barrage/pet, early PvP Bloodspike, AoTL/Deathly Swarm spike, and later heroway builds that came the closest to what we have in GW2 (healing mixed up with either damage, control or offensive support).

So yeah, calling wolf Trinity is a wrong way to go. The ability to have roles does not necessarily mean a forced tank/dps/heal, and naturally, increasing your damage should have strong trade-offs in both control and support fields.

I hate dungeons and the elite community that usually runs them in any MMO. The dungeons in this game are especially terrible design, as many have pointed out the flaws in this thread.
PvP reward tracks were one of the best things they ever added, IMO. I’m farming dungeons skins a plenty and finishing collections without ever having to step foot in one.
Now if only they’d add a fractals track (though without set skin choosing, skin rewards and final reward replaced with the same RNG chests fractals has) and I’d be set.

well, i would like an alternative way of getting dungeon armor in PvE but that’s not gonna happen ether.

Dungeons have unique skins as it is.

For me to play them regularly or with randoms, they’d need to:

• Make the dungeon community less toxic, somehow
• Reduce the grind (counter-productive to prolonged play)
• Fix bugs (good luck with that)
• Remove the need for cheese builds and stacking
• Make them feel rewarding compared to other content (a major issue with a lot of things)

Even then, I don’t always want to run a 5 man group.

It’s simple.
Better rewards for harder dungeons.

Exciton.8942:

It’s simple.
Better rewards for harder dungeons.

so that’s acceptable but an easier dungeon isn’t…..

So now all we need is a dedicated dungeon team and we are set!

Some makeup and lacy undergarments and people will be flocking to those dungeons.

I’m seriously tired of those zerker elitists teaching me how to play. My build I created is great at support ( it’s a minion master/signet necromancer build focusing on healing with deathshroud, and I’ve enough condi damage to take advantage of my staff’s damage) but people don’t care about it and just want dps. Sure, my dps isn’t the best like a warrior would be, but I’m contributing and I’m always ressing those “pros” that keep dying to the boss while I safely range the boss with conditions and keep myself alive with heals. My propositions are:

-make berserker deals less damage than every other gear. It’s obvious that a single gear stat is the problem to everything, and people supporting others while not getting any personal survivability in the process disgusts me.

-make support a part of gear. This will allow trinity again and make the game better.

-allow people to craft items to help skipping hard bosses. Not everyone is a tryhard and has time to learn hard bosses like spider queen. This would also make crafting rewarding and give new ways to complete dungeons.

-end stacking. The zerk meta exists because of that single exploit.

-make mob reveals you if you reach a certain point without killing them to prevent skipping.

Also, they could add some nice stuff like having a legendary allows you to get more rewards, or rewars tied on AP to reward their high level playerbase.

Karisho.3058:

So, I’ve been playing Gw2 since the release, mostly PvE. My problem, and I think, it’s a problem, that a lot of PvE players have, is, that the dungeons became really boring. The only reason for me to run them, is the gold. I was thinking about some ways to change that. The first thing would be, to add new dungeons. Now, the problem with that is, that they will also become boring after some time.
What I was thinking about the most was to add something to the dungeons to make them attractive again. Just an item, that can only drop in this dungeon. It shouldn’t be something game changing that gives advantages over players, that don’t have the items. Rather should it be something collectible, something that adds a bit prestige. For example a miniature or a special skin.
Now, I want to know, what do you think about this idea?

The fractals already have a RNG-based reward-system, which is frequently being debated. Personally, I dislike the system because the rewards are not reliable. As you’ve already pointed out, the dungeon content has been around for a long time. The reason I still play it is because the content is predictable and the rewards are reliable. That results in a nice gold-gain. If that would change (for the worse), I would spend my time elsewhere.

However, I would very much support the idea of increasing the stock of the dungeon token vendors. Add some tonics, minis, etc.

KaizerGr.4815:

There nothing to prove by lying, sooner or later you will be caught.
And at my age try to prove that a donkey do not have wings is waste of time.

Because you do not put restrictions on lfg, does not make everyone not putting one.
I was speaking generally you take it personally.

EU server right now, TA lfg paths UP & FW, 5out of 5 asking for Meta-Zerk.
http://oi57.tinypic.com/28qrjgo.jpg

If you find this fine and do not see any problem with that, then I rest my case.
No point to argue or asking to change things.

Well, such a screen-shot can easily be fabricated to support any kind of argument. You could as easily make one that has no zerker-requirements on it and then claim that the meta only exists on the forums or whatever.

Anyway, as others have already suggested, there is nothing stopping you from making your own group and cater around like-minded players (guilds?). With the amount of anti-meta/zerker threads as of lately, there must be a lot of it. These different opinions don’t have to clash, they can happily co-exist.

oxtred.7658:

…

Also, they could add some nice stuff like having a legendary allows you to get more rewards, or rewars tied on AP to reward their high level playerbase.

Someone is bitter over his tiny AP

For me just adding same drops as it was in UW and diffrent ones from GW 1 would give me enough big boost of motivation to run them.

- Hard mode
- Challenge mode
- Permanent death*

All for increased rewards and a shot at rare loot.

BAM! Fixed.

*permanent as in you die once in a dungeon, it throws you out (no invites after ofc)

heartless.6803:

Because of the lack of healer they skip trash

Can you explain your reasoning here? I’m having a hard time getting from A to B on this one.

Yumiko Ishida.3769:

Or you KaizerGr, and your friends, and the regulars as well can join my guild and we make or own groups all-the-while helping new players that buy the game and be the shining jewel GW 2 deserves, but no one wants right now.

I’m accepting everyone non-toxic and non-meta I also need advisors (officers) and guards (sub-officers)

This sounds familiar…hope something comes of it this time around.

Everyone complaining about “ermagerd their r zerkbergurs n ma LFG”, please join this guild. Then you can play how you want with like-minded individuals.

Yumiko, post something in here: https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/community/lookingfor and I’ll refer folks from the dungeon forum to your guild.