Guild Wars 2

post post script: forum end of page bug sux, too

Mostly I’m just wondering that is wrong with the OP. Throughout the entire beta weekend I acquired no gruff from playing the new specs or playing with the new specs. Entire maps full of players, and not one complaint. The majority of players like playing with the new specs and classes, as it makes the game more interesting while also giving them a perspective for suggestions on how to change the classes.

The world can’t cave to every unreasonable suggestion. The fact is that having beta content merged with regular content makes for a much richer testing environment, and any issues with that fact is a personally issue that will have to be resolved yourself.

I think the OP just wants to complain. Its only for a weekend, as other have said, Anet is NOT forcing anyone to do anything. You can NOT play for a weekend if you don’t want to play as or against the new spec/class. I, for one, am glad the are doing testing in the live client. This means the new spec/class is getting balanced against whats currently in the live game. If the did a beta client everyone there would be playing the new spec/class and thus everything gets balanced against the new stuff and not whats in the game because lets be honest most people would want to play the new stuff when playing in the beta.

The devs are going to do what is best for the game. It doesn’t matter to them that an individual person is unhappy about it. Indeed, they shouldn’t care. They can’t possibly cater to each person with a grievance or an irritation. There are far too many people who get irritated with this or that and post on the forum how bad the whatever Is. You’re only one more person, OP, with a minor irritation about a feature they need to have to improve the game. The information they get from people playing PvP as beta chars is too useful to them for balancing reasons and bugs before the expack goes live to possibly be concerned about someone who isn’t happy about it for personal reasons X, Y, or Z.

Envy.1679:

to everyone saying you have to actually play a beta character to be involved in the beta tester.

You’re just plain wrong.

And here is the problem with us understanding each other.
I am saying that you are not a paid tester.
Which I refered to two senteces before i got bold.

You are mearly someone who is able to test stuff in an enviroment which was in flux from day one.
The game you bought and the game you are playing now is not the same (if you want to know what changed, i got a neat little list).

The beta weekend events and how they envolve the whole playerbase were announced and are considered updates and preperations for the future of the game.

You are not forced to play in this time.
You chose to play in a time, which is announced beforehand as a test time, for willing people.

If you would have rather the game to be shut down and not being able to play for everyone else, to get an inferior product in the end, thenyou are of course right.

However, nobody forces you to play, or test anything.
That one might come in contact with the other, is something that just happens.
Like in real life. Things just happen.

(If you want to be nitpicky with the term tester however, congrats, you are now my testsubject and further behaviour will be analyzed.
What? Do i force you into a testsubject role, in this humble forum enviroment? Nope, you just happen to be there at the right/wrong time. Like being in the game, while an announced event happens. Consider this my waning, as my kitten ready.
You could just go and ignore this little pragraph here )

Td:LR. If you don`t actively participate in the beta, you are an bystander in an announced event. You are free to participate, leave the game, or try to ignore it.

CETheLucid.3964:

Ashen.2907:

CETheLucid.3964:

They need to test these things on live, it’s necessary.

No they do not and no it isn’t.

It is every bit as much an objective fact that they do not need to test these things on live as it is that he is not being forced to play during a beta test.

That said,

OP, it is a few days out of the month. Not really a big deal IMO, and development does likely benefit from the larger test environment.

Closed environment != Live environment

Things happen (more variables, etc) on live that do not happen on internal tests and the internal/closed servers. There’s no real substitute for the live environment.

One of the reasons it took them a while to track down several of the challenge mote bugs for S2.

It also serves to allow the players to communicate issues and offer feedback. I thought we wanted more communication, not less?

It is absolutely necessary.

I’m sure if I dig for it I can find at least two posts from the devs that have expressed such sentiments.

But yeah, I’m not committing to that effort. You’ll have to do your own homework if you want confirmation to that end.

Useful and necessary are not the same thing.

This game, and others, have managed to test content without the use of live servers for years now.

Envy.1679:

glehmann.9586:

Envy.1679:

TheBlackLeech.9360:

Imagine these new specializations did not get tests….

This is a strawman argument. I didnt say they shouldnt get tests. Thats not what I said. You’ve made an argument against a position I didnt present. There are plenty of people who want to test them.

But they are putting BETA content on LIVE servers, rather than testing BETA content on BETA servers (such as opting into the beta test by a simple checkbox in the pvp window)

This is not OK.

He did not make a strawman fallacy. He said the elite specs need to be tested, and that he cannot think of a good way to do so outside of the current method. At no point did he make the claim that you were saying they shouldn’t get tests.

My position was that I want an option not to play with beta content. My position was not that beta content should not be tested. You can do both seperately.

Since he was arguing against a argument that I never made (beta content shouldnt be tested), yes, it is infact a strawman argument. If you don’t think so you either dont understand my argument or you dont understand what a strawman argument is.

Again, he did not say you were arguing that beta content should not be tested. He pointed out that failing to test it would be a problem, and that he can’t think of a better way to test it than what is currently being done. He was, in effect, arguing that you cannot “do both separately”. He was arguing that not testing it the way it is currently being done would mean not testing at all. I think his argument is nonsense, but it’s not a strawman.

I’m not sure I’ve ever seen a person correctly point out a strawman argument in an internet forum, and this is no exception.

Forgotten Legend.9281:

there are confirmed to be 3 Beta weekend events. Anet happens to let us know when those events will be a week or two in advance. with all due respect, you have the choice to go do something else for those 3 weekends. IT’S YOUR OWN FAULT for choosing to play during the beta weekend events. 9 days out of 365. YOU CHOSE to play during those 9 days, KNOWING about the beta test AHEAD OF TIME. i feel no pity for you. i offer you no bacon as recompense.

disclaimer: this post has been written for entertainment purposes only, and does not offer any legal advice, nor does it present any legal opinions. the poster is not responsible for any actions you may take as a result of you reading this post.

post script: bacon deficiency disorder sux

So just because I know about it that invalidates my argument?

Starting in a couple days we’re going to require everybody to connect their G+ accounts to be abl to chat or queue for pvp or enter dungeons for 3 days straight. Since we’re telling you about it, its your choice to participate and we feel no pity for you if you dont like it.

Some people’s logic, man.

glehmann.9586:

Envy.1679:

glehmann.9586:

Envy.1679:

TheBlackLeech.9360:

Imagine these new specializations did not get tests….

This is a strawman argument. I didnt say they shouldnt get tests. Thats not what I said. You’ve made an argument against a position I didnt present. There are plenty of people who want to test them.

But they are putting BETA content on LIVE servers, rather than testing BETA content on BETA servers (such as opting into the beta test by a simple checkbox in the pvp window)

This is not OK.

He did not make a strawman fallacy. He said the elite specs need to be tested, and that he cannot think of a good way to do so outside of the current method. At no point did he make the claim that you were saying they shouldn’t get tests.

My position was that I want an option not to play with beta content. My position was not that beta content should not be tested. You can do both seperately.

Since he was arguing against a argument that I never made (beta content shouldnt be tested), yes, it is infact a strawman argument. If you don’t think so you either dont understand my argument or you dont understand what a strawman argument is.

Again, he did not say you were arguing that beta content should not be tested. He pointed out that failing to test it would be a problem, and that he can’t think of a better way to test it than what is currently being done. He was, in effect, arguing that you cannot “do both separately”. He was arguing that not testing it the way it is currently being done would mean not testing at all. I think his argument is nonsense, but it’s not a strawman.

I’m not sure I’ve ever seen a person correctly point out a strawman argument in an internet forum, and this is no exception.

You can do both seperately. You can disagree all you want.

Jaken.6801:

You are not forced to play in this time.
You chose to play in a time, which is announced beforehand as a test time, for willing people.

Obviously, I never said I was forced to play gw2. I said I was forced to play with beta content even though I never signed up for beta content. How hard is it to understand that I want to pvp without beta content. It’s forced upon players who dont want to play with unbalanced stuff. It’s like im playing an FPS game where some player are using mods that are overpowered or underpowered.

If you still cant understand this dont bother replying because its just never going to get through to you.

I’m wondering if you think that when HoT releases, this beta imbalance you perceive will magically disappear.

Or will your lament change to being ‘forced to play an expansion’?

Because, even with beta testing, I pretty confident some will state the professions are imbalanced come release.

Or is it ok for there to be imbalance, as long as it’s not labeled ‘beta’?

Inculpatus cedo.9234:

I’m wondering if you think that when HoT releases, this beta imbalance you perceive will magically disappear.

Or will your lament change to being ‘forced to play an expansion’?

Because, even with beta testing, I pretty confident some will state the professions are imbalanced come release.

Or is it ok for there to be imbalance, as long as it’s not labeled ‘beta’?

The game will never be really balanced. If it was the idea of “meta” wouldnt even exist; meta being essentially “Whats consistently better than everything else”

That doesnt mean beta content doesnt include stuff that can be outright overpowered, which is definitely different than simply being powerful, such as meta builds.

When its out of beta, the balance will be closer to the rest of the game most likely.

Honestly I think it might be possible theyre purposefully allowing some overpowered content to be played briefly by people who bought hot so people who havnt bought it will want to buy it more.

Envy.1679:

But they are putting BETA content on LIVE servers, rather than testing BETA content on BETA servers (such as opting into the beta test by a simple checkbox in the pvp window)

This is not OK.

I find the conclusion interesting. You are correctly describing what they’re doing, but then you draw the conclusion that that is a bad thing, as in, there’s something wrong with the system used, instead of your rather narrow perspective of it.

How come?

Carighan.6758:

How come?

Read the OP post and youll learn my views as to why

Envy.1679:

Inculpatus cedo.9234:

I’m wondering if you think that when HoT releases, this beta imbalance you perceive will magically disappear.

Or will your lament change to being ‘forced to play an expansion’?

Because, even with beta testing, I pretty confident some will state the professions are imbalanced come release.

Or is it ok for there to be imbalance, as long as it’s not labeled ‘beta’?

The game will never be really balanced. If it was the idea of “meta” wouldnt even exist; meta being essentially “Whats consistently better than everything else”

That doesnt mean beta content doesnt include stuff that can be outright overpowered, which is definitely different than simply being powerful, such as meta builds.

When its out of beta, the balance will be closer to the rest of the game most likely.

Honestly I think it might be possible theyre purposefully allowing some overpowered content to be played briefly by people who bought hot so people who havnt bought it will want to buy it more.

If the professions seem more balanced (Elite vs regular Spec) at launch, it will be because they were able to test them on the live server, rather than a ‘beta’ server, ‘most likely’.

Regardless, I have no doubt there will be a plethora of threads claiming the Elite Specializations are OP by professions that do not play said OP Elite, and/or players that play no Elite whatsoever.

I am sure the Devs will consider your feedback, and give it the attention it deserves.

Good luck.

Acrisor.8097:

In the country where I live, game testers are usually paid for their work. In this game most testers like to do it not by receiving money, but by giving money (prepurchase); and whover does not like it (did not prepurchase) is forced to play with those testers. And if like this was not enough, the testers consider themselves the best when they defeat non-testers in PvP or WvW. It’s just awesome.

My advice for all the players is to do like I do: stop playing during beta weekends! You are spending your time and your resources to provide feedback, while receiving nothing in return, but frustration. During beta weekends I only join the game to receive my daily login reward.

For some people, the ability to provide feedback is a valuable thing indeed. Because if you don’t provide feedback and something is wrong with the game launches, then that problem has to be fixed after the fact.

Game communties often want to have a say in the process of a game moving forward. I personally find it difficult to believe why most people wouldn’t want that.

Envy.1679:

Read the OP post and youll learn my views as to why

That post explains why you personally cannot handle non-finished products (which, honestly, makes it a bit surprising that you play MMOs as they are never once in a “stable”-state), but not really what is so bad about this.

There’s a lot of benefits to testing like this:

• More hype. Players see the new specs and the new class running around next to them ,gets them interested in the xpack.
• Better testing base. Even if the number of testing players is the same, having all the other players to “provide” the other players in their teams and realms is a huge boon, as it means somewhat production-comparable situations happen.
• More combinations. On a test realm, I bet 99%+ of Mesmers would be Chrono. Here, you will have Chronomancers and Mesmers mingling, providing balance input about the chrono line in comparison to the other lines.

Envy.1679:

- snip -

No. Nobody forces you to play.
You want to play. You want to play in a timeframe that is marked as preview/beta/feedback time.

While your wish has some merrit, it is just unpractical in terms of the greater goal.

It`s like wanting to wear a bikini in winter and then screaming it is too cold for it, or that people are looking at your exposed parts.
It just makes no sense from a rational point of view.
This is no utopia, where every wish can be granted.

Fact is:
- You did not have to play in that timeframe, which was announced for a long time.
- You did not have to play with random players. You could have openened your own private arena and only use non beta characters there.
- You chose to play in that time and that gamemode.
- It is only three days.
- I repeat, the beta event was no suprise and it was announced (you could have handled it as downtime)

Random fact:
I met not one Beta Class in three PvP games on sunday. My first encounter was a Revenant in the Stronghold Beta (unfortunatley the dailies weren`t updated to reflect that gamemode)

Envy.1679:

Since you cant opt out of playing with beta content like reaper rev, etc. You can no longer queue pvp without running into beta content.

Personally, I absolutely can not stand beta tests. I dont like dealing with balance problems or bugs. I never sign up for beta tests for anything. Why am I unable to choose to participate in this? I want to pvp without the stupid beta stuff.

Allow us to select whether or not we want to play with beta content forgodssake

So you’d rather the testing was greatly restricted in PvP where bugs and interactions are much more important… You’d rather face bugs at launch? Ridiculous stance to take.

I feel I need to write this next bit because you didn’t consider it.

Fewer players in Beta (from opt outs) means fewer Beta games, fewer iterations, fewer combinations of interactions and less reporting. Less testing is bad, ESPECIALLY for PvP. We want it launched with less bugs and imbalances, right?

Envy, the question you need to ask yourself is would you rather see them now and give ANet time to balance them before HoT’s launch, or face them in a possible unbalanced state in a little over a month? Either way you will have to face them while they aren’t properly “tuned” so is it better now or later?

If they make the beta on its own server, they would not get enough feedback with a very limited amount of people testing. And if they just release it in this state, the game balance will be broken and I imagine the crowd would go on rampage on the forum. The dev take the middle ground by allowing it to go on live server so everyone could take part of it just on the weekend. Yes it may seems like they “forced” you to play with the unfinished content but then again, it is necessary. Your complaints are no different from people that refuse to see a change in MMORPG, and that’s impossible.

Also, the beta weekend is only like, 3 times. The next one will be the last. If you really don’t like it, then don’t play it on beta. Just take it as some form of “maintenance”. I would agree with you if they take like a whole month of beta to test it but they didn’t. I honestly don’t see any problem with that.

All I see is perceptions issues here (no offence meant).

1) No beta tests at all, OP is happy. Not true. He will be super kittened at HoT launch because then he will still be beta testing (Anet had less preparation time, more bugs, less balance, more match blowouts. OP clearly doesn’t realize, he now has to play ‘less beta tester’, then he would have to do at launch if we follow HIS non (live) beta protocol.

2) You PERCEIVE this as beta test. Well maybe you shouldn’t. If HoT launched now (they could have to be honest). What then? You still would have to alter your playstyle. You still would have to alter strategies against specializations. Sitting back in your ‘safe old environment’ would not have safed you. On contrary. Some specs are really close to ‘release worthy’. In other words, if you look at how much time Anet took, to nerf/boost some base profs, you could conclude that if at launch was possible, Then it it would also be possible with specializations. The live experience would be worse, then this beta test for you. But you clearly perceive things as black and white. ‘Beta is black, live is White’. So not true. They both overlap. Pick your poison. But POISON THERE WILL BE. There’s no escaping that. And that’s where op is so completely wrong and of the charts in his ‘I want and shall have this’-quest.

3) Go to practise pvp (hotjoin) for weekend. Leave matches with ‘beta’ character. Join another. Little effort, and there is your ‘non beta’ weekend time. Or is that again to much to ask? Perhaps there’s other issues then beta in play here. Perhaps Entitlement?

4) You can’t have everything in the world. You have to make a compromise. Guild wars 2 is just the same. Either you pay 100 euro’s, Arenanet have loads more employees (who still can make mistakes btw), Beta test harder to do it themself instead of public (wich btw is not perfect, as said above here by other players, live environment shows bug, closed server never will), and there you will have ‘non beta’ gameplay. But you can’t. The current situation is, Gw2 is buy to play model, that needs to be economicly balanced. Economicly a Live beta weekend test is way better, then a permanent closed beta test. First of all, the first one takes less work (the player find most of bugs, not employees), secondly, the first also finds bugs more efficient. Both are a win for Arenanet, and in the end for you (either in content, or in less money to pay for what you want). If you can’t see this, then you are definitely entitled. And what are about 6 days in a 3 month period, for you to have to endure live beta test? Nothing. You clearly want to much.

In the end you have to pick a poison. That’s the nature of the world. If you have a lover, he/she will have good and bad points. There’s no escaping that. Same here in this game. But seems that you live in a cloud of your own expectations, not realizing the repercussions they have on other players (wich is very selfish), or economicly not realistic (wich is just not being very realistic of you).

It’s either you’re a forced beta tester now, or a forced beta tester at release.

Vayne.8563:

If Anet didn’t do this, you’d be beta testing at launch and not calling it a beta test.

lol it’s always so much fun when Vayne drops his anti-tantrum anti-QQ bomb of reason, sanity, and rationality He never disappoints!

how is this even a discussion -.-
if anet needs people to test and dont have enough to do so by their own will, they should do like every other company when needing people to do stuff they dont want to and PAY people for their work time…

and the fallacy of “then they will release an untested product” is even more laugheble. you pay them for their product so it better be tested and ready when it is released because that is what you paid them for -.-

it is really that simple…

Envy.1679:

The game will never be really balanced. If it was the idea of “meta” wouldnt even exist; meta being essentially “Whats consistently better than everything else”

That doesnt mean beta content doesnt include stuff that can be outright overpowered, which is definitely different than simply being powerful, such as meta builds.

When its out of beta, the balance will be closer to the rest of the game most likely.

Honestly I think it might be possible theyre purposefully allowing some overpowered content to be played briefly by people who bought hot so people who havnt bought it will want to buy it more.

Dude… you are fringing on conspiracy theory now. Honestly all they had to do to make the expansion appealing to PvPers was to make Leagues ties to HoT. That’s it. Balancing always has fluctuations, and numbers are the easiest part to fix so that’s usually one of the final passes.

Nilix.2170:

It’s either you’re a forced beta tester now, or a forced beta tester at release.

Nah, both.

Erebus.7568:

how is this even a discussion -.-
if anet needs people to test and dont have enough to do so by their own will, they should do like every other company when needing people to do stuff they dont want to and PAY people for their work time…

and the fallacy of “then they will release an untested product” is even more laugheble. you pay them for their product so it better be tested and ready when it is released because that is what you paid them for -.-

it is really that simple…

Erm… GW2 has a lot of moving parts and buying in enough people to test every combination is ridiculous. Players also are pretty good at trying OP combinations when you give it to enough of them and make for excellent testers.

The MMOs I’ve played have never payed for beta testing because the games are so complex. I can’t beliieve you would aska company to kitten its balance sheet so a minority of players don’t have to play against beta characters (those players are getting early experience fighting the new classes too so from a competative standpoint they are benefitting).

Having a well tested set of things needs lots of iterations, variations and good reporting – opening this up to the whole player base to experience is a very good idea. I have no idea what your motivation is.

Inculpatus cedo.9234:

Envy.1679:

Inculpatus cedo.9234:

I’m wondering if you think that when HoT releases, this beta imbalance you perceive will magically disappear.

Or will your lament change to being ‘forced to play an expansion’?

Because, even with beta testing, I pretty confident some will state the professions are imbalanced come release.

Or is it ok for there to be imbalance, as long as it’s not labeled ‘beta’?

The game will never be really balanced. If it was the idea of “meta” wouldnt even exist; meta being essentially “Whats consistently better than everything else”

That doesnt mean beta content doesnt include stuff that can be outright overpowered, which is definitely different than simply being powerful, such as meta builds.

When its out of beta, the balance will be closer to the rest of the game most likely.

Honestly I think it might be possible theyre purposefully allowing some overpowered content to be played briefly by people who bought hot so people who havnt bought it will want to buy it more.

If the professions seem more balanced (Elite vs regular Spec) at launch, it will be because they were able to test them on the live server, rather than a ‘beta’ server, ‘most likely’.

Regardless, I have no doubt there will be a plethora of threads claiming the Elite Specializations are OP by professions that do not play said OP Elite, and/or players that play no Elite whatsoever.

I am sure the Devs will consider your feedback, and give it the attention it deserves.

Good luck.

If we are to believe all threads and comments that have show up over the past couple of months alone, then for PvP alone:

-Engineer as a whole is OP
-Turret engi pre-nerf was OP
-Turret engi post-nerf is even more OP (my favorite)
-Grenade engi is OP
-DD Ele is OP
-Diamond Skin is OP
-Fresh Air is OP
-Power Necro is OP
-Lich Form is OP
-Minion Mancer is OP (saw this once no joke)
-Shatter Mesmer is OP
-PU Mesmer is OP
-Power Ranger is OP
-Rapid Fire is OP
-Thief as a whole is OP
-Stealth is OP
-Warrior damage is OP
-Warrior regen is OP
-Medi Guard is OP
-Barbecue Guard is OP
-Celestial Amulet everything is OP
-Berserker Amulet is OP

If we are to believe (or at least credit) all of this, then either every class in the game is OP or else people are just going to complain no matter what the topic is. I think most are from frustration; for example, a Longbow Ranger or a Shatter Mesmer is more likely to complain about Thief being OP, while someone who’s no good against Thieves or Mesmers is more likely to complain about stealth being OP.

Yes, I fully expect “Revenant / Reaper / Daredevil / Chronomancer / etc. is OP” threads to appear about 30 minutes after the expansion launches in October. I plan to basically ignore them. The fact that people always complain about everything has hurt the credibility of real complaints over real issues.

Blair.3796:

Inculpatus cedo.9234:

Envy.1679:

Inculpatus cedo.9234:

I’m wondering if you think that when HoT releases, this beta imbalance you perceive will magically disappear.

Or will your lament change to being ‘forced to play an expansion’?

Because, even with beta testing, pretty confident some will state the professions are imbalanced come release.

Or is it ok for there to be imbalance, as long as it’s not labeled ‘beta’?

The game will never be really balanced. If it was the idea of “meta” wouldnt even exist; meta being essentially “Whats consistently better than everything else”

That doesnt mean beta content doesnt include stuff that can be outright overpowered, which is definitely different than simply being powerful, such as meta builds.

When its out of beta, the balance will be closer to the rest of the game most likely.

Honestly I think it might be possible theyre purposefully allowing some overpowered content to be played briefly by people who bought hot so people who havnt bought it will want to buy it more.

If the professions seem more balanced (Elite vs regular Spec) at launch, it will be because they were able to test them on the live server, rather than a ‘beta’ server, ‘most likely’.

Regardless, I have no doubt there will be a plethora of threads claiming the Elite Specializations are OP by professions that do not play said OP Elite, and/or players that play no Elite whatsoever.

I am sure the Devs will consider your feedback, and give it the attention it deserves.

Good luck.

If we are to believe all threads and comments that have show up over the past couple of months alone, then for PvP alone:

-Engineer as a whole is OP
-Turret engi pre-nerf was OP
-Turret engi post-nerf is even more OP (my favorite)
-Grenade engi is OP
-DD Ele is OP
-Diamond Skin is OP
-Fresh Air is OP
-Power Necro is OP
-Lich Form is OP
-Minion Mancer is OP (saw this once no joke)
-Shatter Mesmer is OP
-PU Mesmer is OP
-Power Ranger is OP
-Rapid Fire is OP
-Thief as a whole is OP
-Stealth is OP
-Warrior damage is OP
-Warrior regen is OP
-Medi Guard is OP
-Barbecue Guard is OP
-Celestial Amulet everything is OP
-Berserker Amulet is OP

If we are to believe (or at least credit) all of this, then either every class in the game is OP or else people are just going to complain no matter what the topic is. I think most are from frustration; for example, a Longbow Ranger or a Shatter Mesmer is more likely to complain about Thief being OP, while someone who’s no good against Thieves or Mesmers is more likely to complain about stealth being OP.

Yes, I fully expect “Revenant / Reaper / Daredevil / Chronomancer / etc. is OP” threads to appear about 30 minutes after the expansion launches in October. I plan to basically ignore them. The fact that people always complain about everything has hurt the credibility of real complaints over real issues.

>plans to basically ignore
>writes 251 word response

ok

And to everyone else. I have my opinion, and everybody can argue about it all they want.

People can literally post “water is good for you” and people will argue about it. Like when I suggested Gold be shared across all characters, people were literally arguing against it saying they prefer to run to the bank every time they want to get gold across their characters. People argue and reject new ideas by default. So it doesn’t bother me one bit when people say no.

I have my opinion, and I didnt post it to argue.

Envy.1679:

Blair.3796:

Inculpatus cedo.9234:

Envy.1679:

Inculpatus cedo.9234:

I’m wondering if you think that when HoT releases, this beta imbalance you perceive will magically disappear.

Or will your lament change to being ‘forced to play an expansion’?

Because, even with beta testing, pretty confident some will state the professions are imbalanced come release.

Or is it ok for there to be imbalance, as long as it’s not labeled ‘beta’?

The game will never be really balanced. If it was the idea of “meta” wouldnt even exist; meta being essentially “Whats consistently better than everything else”

That doesnt mean beta content doesnt include stuff that can be outright overpowered, which is definitely different than simply being powerful, such as meta builds.

When its out of beta, the balance will be closer to the rest of the game most likely.

Honestly I think it might be possible theyre purposefully allowing some overpowered content to be played briefly by people who bought hot so people who havnt bought it will want to buy it more.

If the professions seem more balanced (Elite vs regular Spec) at launch, it will be because they were able to test them on the live server, rather than a ‘beta’ server, ‘most likely’.

Regardless, I have no doubt there will be a plethora of threads claiming the Elite Specializations are OP by professions that do not play said OP Elite, and/or players that play no Elite whatsoever.

I am sure the Devs will consider your feedback, and give it the attention it deserves.

Good luck.

If we are to believe all threads and comments that have show up over the past couple of months alone, then for PvP alone:

-Engineer as a whole is OP
-Turret engi pre-nerf was OP
-Turret engi post-nerf is even more OP (my favorite)
-Grenade engi is OP
-DD Ele is OP
-Diamond Skin is OP
-Fresh Air is OP
-Power Necro is OP
-Lich Form is OP
-Minion Mancer is OP (saw this once no joke)
-Shatter Mesmer is OP
-PU Mesmer is OP
-Power Ranger is OP
-Rapid Fire is OP
-Thief as a whole is OP
-Stealth is OP
-Warrior damage is OP
-Warrior regen is OP
-Medi Guard is OP
-Barbecue Guard is OP
-Celestial Amulet everything is OP
-Berserker Amulet is OP

If we are to believe (or at least credit) all of this, then either every class in the game is OP or else people are just going to complain no matter what the topic is. I think most are from frustration; for example, a Longbow Ranger or a Shatter Mesmer is more likely to complain about Thief being OP, while someone who’s no good against Thieves or Mesmers is more likely to complain about stealth being OP.

Yes, I fully expect “Revenant / Reaper / Daredevil / Chronomancer / etc. is OP” threads to appear about 30 minutes after the expansion launches in October. I plan to basically ignore them. The fact that people always complain about everything has hurt the credibility of real complaints over real issues.

>plans to basically ignore
>writes 251 word response

ok

And to everyone else. I have my opinion, and everybody can argue about it all they want.

People can literally post “water is good for you” and people will argue about it. Like when I suggested Gold be shared across all characters, people were literally arguing against it saying they prefer to run to the bank every time they want to get gold across their characters. People argue and reject new ideas by default. So it doesn’t bother me one bit when people say no.

I have my opinion, and I didnt post it to argue.

But you didn’t say “water is good for you” you posted “water is poison and we’re being forced to drink it!” and so people are correcting you. Your opinion was formed without enough thought or consideration of the purpose and method of beta testing – now you know.

Envy.1679:

>plans to basically ignore
>writes 251 word response

The fact that you actually googled a word count tool and used one just to belittle a person speaks loads more about you than it does about them.

EnRohbi.2187:

Envy.1679:

>plans to basically ignore
>writes 251 word response

The fact that you actually googled a word count tool and used one just to belittle a person speaks loads more about you than it does about them.

I counted visually. Do you even internet argument bro?

Coulter.2315:

Envy.1679:

Blair.3796:

Inculpatus cedo.9234:

Envy.1679:

Inculpatus cedo.9234:

I’m wondering if you think that when HoT releases, this beta imbalance you perceive will magically disappear.

Or will your lament change to being ‘forced to play an expansion’?

Because, even with beta testing, pretty confident some will state the professions are imbalanced come release.

Or is it ok for there to be imbalance, as long as it’s not labeled ‘beta’?

The game will never be really balanced. If it was the idea of “meta” wouldnt even exist; meta being essentially “Whats consistently better than everything else”

That doesnt mean beta content doesnt include stuff that can be outright overpowered, which is definitely different than simply being powerful, such as meta builds.

When its out of beta, the balance will be closer to the rest of the game most likely.

Honestly I think it might be possible theyre purposefully allowing some overpowered content to be played briefly by people who bought hot so people who havnt bought it will want to buy it more.

If the professions seem more balanced (Elite vs regular Spec) at launch, it will be because they were able to test them on the live server, rather than a ‘beta’ server, ‘most likely’.

Regardless, I have no doubt there will be a plethora of threads claiming the Elite Specializations are OP by professions that do not play said OP Elite, and/or players that play no Elite whatsoever.

I am sure the Devs will consider your feedback, and give it the attention it deserves.

Good luck.

If we are to believe all threads and comments that have show up over the past couple of months alone, then for PvP alone:

-Engineer as a whole is OP
-Turret engi pre-nerf was OP
-Turret engi post-nerf is even more OP (my favorite)
-Grenade engi is OP
-DD Ele is OP
-Diamond Skin is OP
-Fresh Air is OP
-Power Necro is OP
-Lich Form is OP
-Minion Mancer is OP (saw this once no joke)
-Shatter Mesmer is OP
-PU Mesmer is OP
-Power Ranger is OP
-Rapid Fire is OP
-Thief as a whole is OP
-Stealth is OP
-Warrior damage is OP
-Warrior regen is OP
-Medi Guard is OP
-Barbecue Guard is OP
-Celestial Amulet everything is OP
-Berserker Amulet is OP

If we are to believe (or at least credit) all of this, then either every class in the game is OP or else people are just going to complain no matter what the topic is. I think most are from frustration; for example, a Longbow Ranger or a Shatter Mesmer is more likely to complain about Thief being OP, while someone who’s no good against Thieves or Mesmers is more likely to complain about stealth being OP.

Yes, I fully expect “Revenant / Reaper / Daredevil / Chronomancer / etc. is OP” threads to appear about 30 minutes after the expansion launches in October. I plan to basically ignore them. The fact that people always complain about everything has hurt the credibility of real complaints over real issues.

>plans to basically ignore
>writes 251 word response

ok

And to everyone else. I have my opinion, and everybody can argue about it all they want.

People can literally post “water is good for you” and people will argue about it. Like when I suggested Gold be shared across all characters, people were literally arguing against it saying they prefer to run to the bank every time they want to get gold across their characters. People argue and reject new ideas by default. So it doesn’t bother me one bit when people say no.

I have my opinion, and I didnt post it to argue.

But you didn’t say “water is good for you” you posted “water is poison and we’re being forced to drink it!” and so people are correcting you. Your opinion was formed without enough thought or consideration of the purpose and method of beta testing – now you know.

So many people making the same exact strawman argument. I could copypaste the same exact response that I previously typed and it would counter your argument.

At this point, Im not even going to respond to a single extra person who makes the same exact strawman arguement. Yall should learn to read.

Undoubtedly theres going to be a reply along the lines of “well if so many people are correcting you, then you’re obviously the one wrong”

No. It’s a case of most of these people failing to understand my point and failing to understand the difference between my argument and the fictitious argument theyre forming arguments against.

I dont mind people simply disagreeing with me, as long as they fully understand my point, such as people saying that this kind of testing is the best option for GW2. They understand my opinion, they just disagree with it. But people like you just simply dont understand my point at all.

Envy.1679:

EnRohbi.2187:

Envy.1679:

>plans to basically ignore
>writes 251 word response

The fact that you actually googled a word count tool and used one just to belittle a person speaks loads more about you than it does about them.

I counted visually. Do you even internet argument bro?

That’s like ten times worse, man :P
The point is the amount of effort you’re going to for nothing but shutting someone down. You didn’t post this thread with any constructive purpose, you posted it to be combative and argue with everyone who -IguessIneedsomethingbetweenthesewords- responds.

EnRohbi.2187:

Envy.1679:

EnRohbi.2187:

Envy.1679:

>plans to basically ignore
>writes 251 word response

The fact that you actually googled a word count tool and used one just to belittle a person speaks loads more about you than it does about them.

I counted visually. Do you even internet argument bro?

That’s like ten times worse, man :P
The point is the amount of effort you’re going to for nothing but shutting someone down. You didn’t post this thread with any constructive purpose, you posted it to be combative and argue with everyone who -IguessIneedsomethingbetweenthesewords- responds.

Actually, I was being sarcastic. Playing on the fact that your reply had absolutely nothing constructive to add to this thread. What you’re saying I did, you did in the comment I replied to.