Guild Wars 2

Nerelith.7360:

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

Nerelith.7360:

option 3. Tell the players your plans… so they know what they can anticipate, and they can get hungry for something new…. and deliver it, but…. if for whatever reason you CANNOT deliver…. tell your players what the problem is, if it is anticipated to be resolved, and how… more or less that it is being worked on….or…. " sorry we tried it, and here is why we cannot deliver it."

They do do some of this though. The issue I tend to run into isn’t the fact that weren’t telling us, it was that they weren’t using a consistent method to tell us. Sometimes it was updated through an interview, sometimes it’s through twitch, sometimes it’s just a question answered by a CM and a lot of people missed some of it. Which definitely didn’t help. However, some of those people expect a month by month updates, which just isn’t realistic (not if they want things done anyway).

The thing that seems to upset reasonable players is not that they say " we will give you A" then they don’t.. it is that they say " we will give you A" they don’t..then they don’t bother to explain WHY A is Not coming… what is being done to deliver it, what problems are anticipated in delivery of A ETA of A or… “A is impossible for us at this time, it’s going on a backburner..or it’s not gonna be delivered.”

Now…while many will say this is too much to expect from developers that we should Just sit , and wait patiently… hoping they give us some notice of what is in store…but understanding " hey, we upset them, by trying to say " didn’t you say we would have A?" "

The answer isn’t to stop telling us what to anticipate. the answer is, if they cannot deliver A…. tell us why not.

This probably touches on their not being able to give specifics in regards to any particular project. They can’t tell us “why” (even before all this hubub) only whether or not its still on the table or not. Which, really should be fine. Ok they are still working on it, or kitten they had to scrap it. In certain cases, we’ve had this information provided, it just wasn’t done in a consistent way, so a lot of people missed it. And thus all the “you broke your promises” bullkitten arises, when in fact no actual promise was made, and an update as to status is actually floating around out there…

See we agree. If it is not consistently done, it’s not being done in a way that players may have access to.

What’s wrong with a Notice when players log in? Just a Blurb the same exact way they announce a new armor skin?

" Update on precursor crafting…. (link)"

Then when you go there, they say " we had anticipated having precursor crafting available by now but… while we cannot discuss why, we can tell you it’s On the back-burner for at least 6 months to a year. sorry we couldn’t get it done… we will keep you posted."

I don’t see what would have been wrong to include that in between the:

“awesome new armor-skin XXXXX Now on Gem-store.”

and

“awesome new weapon skin YYYYY Now on Gem-store.”

Yes, we do agree, and you’re right I don’t see anything wrong with that necessarily either (well, maybe an adjustment to the wording, but that’s just semantics). Anything that shows up on the news feed shows up on that notice, and I’ve said elsewhere any type of interview or social media “update” should be put on there (the news scroll) as well. This way it reaches the greatest potential pool of players. Consistency is a lovely thing.

sishbob.3987:

Boneheart.3561:

sishbob.3987:

Boneheart.3561:

sishbob.3987:

… the Living Story, which is something that the majority of players do not want.

[CITATION NEEDED]

Lemme correct that then. LS is something that a majority of players do not want over content that actually matters and changes the game.

Define “actually matters” and “game”. Because there’s massive vines running through Iron Marches and your statement sounds flat-out subjective.
But let’s pretend I didn’t type any of that, I’d like a citation for this “correct” statement.

Wait, vines running through the iron marches is all we need to be happy? Someone call ANet. Tell them to put vines everywhere! Gameplay doesnt need to change. Cheating doesnt need to be addressed! And who needs those dungeons? And fractals? Phah!

If you seriously only needed to see some vines run through the map to be happy than good for you. But heres the thing. You’re still talking about lore, and how the world works. People want to play the game. Do vines running through the marches even change gameplay? Maybe they hint to a sinister boss battle, but honestly, unless spooky skeleton pops out the of the ground real quick and we fight him for a solid reason with some new concepts to work with, people wont be around to fight Mr Spooky, and thats shame.

Edit: You even brought up the need to have updates to other aspects of the game in your original post. Yet you seem to be now fixated on defending the priority that LS has over the rest of the game? Confused.

I’ve said that i like the new story, not that the new story have to be main (and only) priority

TheCheater.5190:

sishbob.3987:

Boneheart.3561:

sishbob.3987:

Boneheart.3561:

sishbob.3987:

… the Living Story, which is something that the majority of players do not want.

[CITATION NEEDED]

Lemme correct that then. LS is something that a majority of players do not want over content that actually matters and changes the game.

Define “actually matters” and “game”. Because there’s massive vines running through Iron Marches and your statement sounds flat-out subjective.
But let’s pretend I didn’t type any of that, I’d like a citation for this “correct” statement.

Wait, vines running through the iron marches is all we need to be happy? Someone call ANet. Tell them to put vines everywhere! Gameplay doesnt need to change. Cheating doesnt need to be addressed! And who needs those dungeons? And fractals? Phah!

If you seriously only needed to see some vines run through the map to be happy than good for you. But heres the thing. You’re still talking about lore, and how the world works. People want to play the game. Do vines running through the marches even change gameplay? Maybe they hint to a sinister boss battle, but honestly, unless spooky skeleton pops out the of the ground real quick and we fight him for a solid reason with some new concepts to work with, people wont be around to fight Mr Spooky, and thats shame.

Edit: You even brought up the need to have updates to other aspects of the game in your original post. Yet you seem to be now fixated on defending the priority that LS has over the rest of the game? Confused.

I’ve said that i like the new story, not that the new story have to be main (and only) priority

It’s not the only priority though. We’ve been told that, time and again. It is a focal point currently, yes; however, they have told us over and over that they have other projects ongoing in the back ground. They won’t give us any details though, until those projects are ready to roll out.

Maybe it’s not the only point but we’ve barely seen anything other than LS

Nerelith.7360:

Dusty Moon.4382:

sishbob.3987:

Boneheart.3561:

sishbob.3987:

… the Living Story, which is something that the majority of players do not want.

[CITATION NEEDED]

Lemme correct that then. LS is something that a majority of players do not want over content that actually matters and changes the game.

The LS IS changing the game. That is the point – damaged LA, broken WP, Pale Tree maybe dying. Those are definite changes. How would a new chapter (like Prophecies to Factions in GW1) change things? All it would do is move players to a new area and the old area would stay the same.

How do you know the majority of players do not want the LS? Have you asked them or did you just assume because YOU don’t want it? Please state it properly, You don’t want the LS.

Factions gave us, a whole new continent to explore, New Mobs to face, new skills, old skills with a new feel… a new theme. New elites…. new professions.

I cannot say for most since I do not have a citation. But for many…. Living Story is not something even close to an expansion. For many players an expansion doesn’t Just give us new things to do…. it gives us new ways to play..even if we are playing Old things, in old locations, it expands the way we play those things. New professions, weapons, and skills give us new ways to experience Tyria. Living story is a new chapter with the same old characters to an old book. An expansion is a New Book, with new characters set in the old world.

There is a difference, and many, like me, may be tired of what seems to be something done.." on the cheap". LS is Not a substitute for a real expansion, LS may sate til the real expansion arrives. but…it’s buttered crackers… it’s what you serve BEFORE dinner to keep people from starving…. but it is not dinner.

We are not there yet. Cantha is closed off to the rest of the world because of the Elder Dragons. Kill all the Elder Dragons and you may be able to go to Cantha.

Also, that is one part, not the whole part. Again, ignoring the forest while focusing on one tree. There will be no faction fighting in this game because it is not designed for it. You want GW1 and it is still going on.

A.Net said from the beginning they do not want to do an Expansion if at all possible.

1000 people 1000 tastes. I’m leveling my 8th character and having a blast. Finished personal story on all 7. Playing the kitten out of the Living Story and liking every bit of it.

Only thing for which I harbor burning hatred towards Anet is their decision to not make LS#1 purchaseable and replayable as LS#2 is as I haven’t been able to experience the first installment of the LS due to personal reasons. Until it is replayable I’ll be lying down with a curse toward Anet on my lips each evening. Even moreso after reading the LS#1 summary on wiki as I know I’d enjoy it so much it’d be illegal.

Dusty Moon.4382:

Nerelith.7360:

Dusty Moon.4382:

sishbob.3987:

Boneheart.3561:

sishbob.3987:

… the Living Story, which is something that the majority of players do not want.

[CITATION NEEDED]

Lemme correct that then. LS is something that a majority of players do not want over content that actually matters and changes the game.

The LS IS changing the game. That is the point – damaged LA, broken WP, Pale Tree maybe dying. Those are definite changes. How would a new chapter (like Prophecies to Factions in GW1) change things? All it would do is move players to a new area and the old area would stay the same.

How do you know the majority of players do not want the LS? Have you asked them or did you just assume because YOU don’t want it? Please state it properly, You don’t want the LS.

Factions gave us, a whole new continent to explore, New Mobs to face, new skills, old skills with a new feel… a new theme. New elites…. new professions.

I cannot say for most since I do not have a citation. But for many…. Living Story is not something even close to an expansion. For many players an expansion doesn’t Just give us new things to do…. it gives us new ways to play..even if we are playing Old things, in old locations, it expands the way we play those things. New professions, weapons, and skills give us new ways to experience Tyria. Living story is a new chapter with the same old characters to an old book. An expansion is a New Book, with new characters set in the old world.

There is a difference, and many, like me, may be tired of what seems to be something done.." on the cheap". LS is Not a substitute for a real expansion, LS may sate til the real expansion arrives. but…it’s buttered crackers… it’s what you serve BEFORE dinner to keep people from starving…. but it is not dinner.

We are not there yet. Cantha is closed off to the rest of the world because of the Elder Dragons. Kill all the Elder Dragons and you may be able to go to Cantha.

Also, that is one part, not the whole part. Again, ignoring the forest while focusing on one tree. There will be no faction fighting in this game because it is not designed for it. You want GW1 and it is still going on.

A.Net said from the beginning they do not want to do an Expansion if at all possible.

You realize that’s a deal breaker for a lot of people, right?

ipan.4356:

Dusty Moon.4382:

Nerelith.7360:

Dusty Moon.4382:

sishbob.3987:

Boneheart.3561:

sishbob.3987:

… the Living Story, which is something that the majority of players do not want.

[CITATION NEEDED]

Lemme correct that then. LS is something that a majority of players do not want over content that actually matters and changes the game.

The LS IS changing the game. That is the point – damaged LA, broken WP, Pale Tree maybe dying. Those are definite changes. How would a new chapter (like Prophecies to Factions in GW1) change things? All it would do is move players to a new area and the old area would stay the same.

How do you know the majority of players do not want the LS? Have you asked them or did you just assume because YOU don’t want it? Please state it properly, You don’t want the LS.

Factions gave us, a whole new continent to explore, New Mobs to face, new skills, old skills with a new feel… a new theme. New elites…. new professions.

I cannot say for most since I do not have a citation. But for many…. Living Story is not something even close to an expansion. For many players an expansion doesn’t Just give us new things to do…. it gives us new ways to play..even if we are playing Old things, in old locations, it expands the way we play those things. New professions, weapons, and skills give us new ways to experience Tyria. Living story is a new chapter with the same old characters to an old book. An expansion is a New Book, with new characters set in the old world.

There is a difference, and many, like me, may be tired of what seems to be something done.." on the cheap". LS is Not a substitute for a real expansion, LS may sate til the real expansion arrives. but…it’s buttered crackers… it’s what you serve BEFORE dinner to keep people from starving…. but it is not dinner.

We are not there yet. Cantha is closed off to the rest of the world because of the Elder Dragons. Kill all the Elder Dragons and you may be able to go to Cantha.

Also, that is one part, not the whole part. Again, ignoring the forest while focusing on one tree. There will be no faction fighting in this game because it is not designed for it. You want GW1 and it is still going on.

A.Net said from the beginning they do not want to do an Expansion if at all possible.

You realize that’s a deal breaker for a lot of people, right?

It is what it is. They said it, just repeating what A.Net said earlier. You can ignore their posts and what they say, but that was out there and that was said BEFORE LS1 was out so that was like 6 months into the game.

What deal? People paid for the game already, the deal is done. You make it sound like there is some contract – you bought the game as it was, all the stuff they had added in is extra. The LS is free content not paid content. Would it be nice to have an expansion – yes, but not if it ignores the rest of the story A.Net is spinning out right now. I am really interested to see where it will go.

Dusty Moon.4382:

ipan.4356:

Dusty Moon.4382:

Nerelith.7360:

Dusty Moon.4382:

sishbob.3987:

Boneheart.3561:

sishbob.3987:

… the Living Story, which is something that the majority of players do not want.

[CITATION NEEDED]

Lemme correct that then. LS is something that a majority of players do not want over content that actually matters and changes the game.

The LS IS changing the game. That is the point – damaged LA, broken WP, Pale Tree maybe dying. Those are definite changes. How would a new chapter (like Prophecies to Factions in GW1) change things? All it would do is move players to a new area and the old area would stay the same.

How do you know the majority of players do not want the LS? Have you asked them or did you just assume because YOU don’t want it? Please state it properly, You don’t want the LS.

Factions gave us, a whole new continent to explore, New Mobs to face, new skills, old skills with a new feel… a new theme. New elites…. new professions.

I cannot say for most since I do not have a citation. But for many…. Living Story is not something even close to an expansion. For many players an expansion doesn’t Just give us new things to do…. it gives us new ways to play..even if we are playing Old things, in old locations, it expands the way we play those things. New professions, weapons, and skills give us new ways to experience Tyria. Living story is a new chapter with the same old characters to an old book. An expansion is a New Book, with new characters set in the old world.

There is a difference, and many, like me, may be tired of what seems to be something done.." on the cheap". LS is Not a substitute for a real expansion, LS may sate til the real expansion arrives. but…it’s buttered crackers… it’s what you serve BEFORE dinner to keep people from starving…. but it is not dinner.

We are not there yet. Cantha is closed off to the rest of the world because of the Elder Dragons. Kill all the Elder Dragons and you may be able to go to Cantha.

Also, that is one part, not the whole part. Again, ignoring the forest while focusing on one tree. There will be no faction fighting in this game because it is not designed for it. You want GW1 and it is still going on.

A.Net said from the beginning they do not want to do an Expansion if at all possible.

You realize that’s a deal breaker for a lot of people, right?

It is what it is. They said it, just repeating what A.Net said earlier. You can ignore their posts and what they say, but that was out there and that was said BEFORE LS1 was out so that was like 6 months into the game.

What deal? People paid for the game already, the deal is done. You make it sound like there is some contract – you bought the game as it was, all the stuff they had added in is extra. The LS is free content not paid content. Would it be nice to have an expansion – yes, but not if it ignores the rest of the story A.Net is spinning out right now. I am really interested to see where it will go.

I’m talking about if people leave the game, revenue dry’s up, servers shut down and merge.

You know, like what happens to 99% of all MMO’s.

ipan.4356:

Dusty Moon.4382:

ipan.4356:

Dusty Moon.4382:

Nerelith.7360:

Dusty Moon.4382:

sishbob.3987:

Boneheart.3561:

sishbob.3987:

… the Living Story, which is something that the majority of players do not want.

[CITATION NEEDED]

Lemme correct that then. LS is something that a majority of players do not want over content that actually matters and changes the game.

The LS IS changing the game. That is the point – damaged LA, broken WP, Pale Tree maybe dying. Those are definite changes. How would a new chapter (like Prophecies to Factions in GW1) change things? All it would do is move players to a new area and the old area would stay the same.

How do you know the majority of players do not want the LS? Have you asked them or did you just assume because YOU don’t want it? Please state it properly, You don’t want the LS.

Factions gave us, a whole new continent to explore, New Mobs to face, new skills, old skills with a new feel… a new theme. New elites…. new professions.

I cannot say for most since I do not have a citation. But for many…. Living Story is not something even close to an expansion. For many players an expansion doesn’t Just give us new things to do…. it gives us new ways to play..even if we are playing Old things, in old locations, it expands the way we play those things. New professions, weapons, and skills give us new ways to experience Tyria. Living story is a new chapter with the same old characters to an old book. An expansion is a New Book, with new characters set in the old world.

There is a difference, and many, like me, may be tired of what seems to be something done.." on the cheap". LS is Not a substitute for a real expansion, LS may sate til the real expansion arrives. but…it’s buttered crackers… it’s what you serve BEFORE dinner to keep people from starving…. but it is not dinner.

We are not there yet. Cantha is closed off to the rest of the world because of the Elder Dragons. Kill all the Elder Dragons and you may be able to go to Cantha.

Also, that is one part, not the whole part. Again, ignoring the forest while focusing on one tree. There will be no faction fighting in this game because it is not designed for it. You want GW1 and it is still going on.

A.Net said from the beginning they do not want to do an Expansion if at all possible.

You realize that’s a deal breaker for a lot of people, right?

It is what it is. They said it, just repeating what A.Net said earlier. You can ignore their posts and what they say, but that was out there and that was said BEFORE LS1 was out so that was like 6 months into the game.

What deal? People paid for the game already, the deal is done. You make it sound like there is some contract – you bought the game as it was, all the stuff they had added in is extra. The LS is free content not paid content. Would it be nice to have an expansion – yes, but not if it ignores the rest of the story A.Net is spinning out right now. I am really interested to see where it will go.

I’m talking about if people leave the game, revenue dry’s up, servers shut down and merge.

You know, like what happens to 99% of all MMO’s.

How? They have your money. This is not a sub game but a free to play game. Their business model is based on the fact that you bought the game to play it. You don’t need the CS, that is just extra revenue. People really need to understand that – this game is B2P, meaning buy the box play forever (or as long as the servers are up).

You don’t understand at all. GW1 is still going – where is their revenue coming from?

ipan.4356:

Dusty Moon.4382:

ipan.4356:

Dusty Moon.4382:

Nerelith.7360:

Dusty Moon.4382:

sishbob.3987:

Boneheart.3561:

sishbob.3987:

… the Living Story, which is something that the majority of players do not want.

[CITATION NEEDED]

Lemme correct that then. LS is something that a majority of players do not want over content that actually matters and changes the game.

The LS IS changing the game. That is the point – damaged LA, broken WP, Pale Tree maybe dying. Those are definite changes. How would a new chapter (like Prophecies to Factions in GW1) change things? All it would do is move players to a new area and the old area would stay the same.

How do you know the majority of players do not want the LS? Have you asked them or did you just assume because YOU don’t want it? Please state it properly, You don’t want the LS.

Factions gave us, a whole new continent to explore, New Mobs to face, new skills, old skills with a new feel… a new theme. New elites…. new professions.

I cannot say for most since I do not have a citation. But for many…. Living Story is not something even close to an expansion. For many players an expansion doesn’t Just give us new things to do…. it gives us new ways to play..even if we are playing Old things, in old locations, it expands the way we play those things. New professions, weapons, and skills give us new ways to experience Tyria. Living story is a new chapter with the same old characters to an old book. An expansion is a New Book, with new characters set in the old world.

There is a difference, and many, like me, may be tired of what seems to be something done.." on the cheap". LS is Not a substitute for a real expansion, LS may sate til the real expansion arrives. but…it’s buttered crackers… it’s what you serve BEFORE dinner to keep people from starving…. but it is not dinner.

We are not there yet. Cantha is closed off to the rest of the world because of the Elder Dragons. Kill all the Elder Dragons and you may be able to go to Cantha.

Also, that is one part, not the whole part. Again, ignoring the forest while focusing on one tree. There will be no faction fighting in this game because it is not designed for it. You want GW1 and it is still going on.

A.Net said from the beginning they do not want to do an Expansion if at all possible.

You realize that’s a deal breaker for a lot of people, right?

It is what it is. They said it, just repeating what A.Net said earlier. You can ignore their posts and what they say, but that was out there and that was said BEFORE LS1 was out so that was like 6 months into the game.

What deal? People paid for the game already, the deal is done. You make it sound like there is some contract – you bought the game as it was, all the stuff they had added in is extra. The LS is free content not paid content. Would it be nice to have an expansion – yes, but not if it ignores the rest of the story A.Net is spinning out right now. I am really interested to see where it will go.

I’m talking about if people leave the game, revenue dry’s up, servers shut down and merge.

You know, like what happens to 99% of all MMO’s.

Yes, it’s happened to most MMOs….but it hasn’t happened here. There’s a reason for that.

Anet is making enough money as it stands now to keep the servers running for a long long time, and that’s without China.

At some point they must have done something right, no?

I had no problem buying my precursors for my legendaries. No one ever said making a legendary was easy and fun . If it was, everyone would have them. Arena net said precursor crafting is comming so calm your kittens. They also said that it’s not going to be easy, so don’t expect to make your precursor from 2-3 Arah runs.

Dusty Moon.4382:

To the OP: You certainly feel ‘Entitled’ don’t you.

If you actually look at the forum, A.Net is trying to engage again but with rants like yours, I see them pulling away because it is a ‘darned if you do, darned if you don’t’ mentality.

Unnecessarily personal, perhaps, but your posts are some of the most obnoxious on the forums, and they exemplify the absurd “white knight” syndrome going around. It’s predictable and pointless. Someone chimes in to voice a concern or request new content and cue obnoxious WK to butt in and accuse everyone of “not understanding”, being “entitled”, and senselessly defend ANet’s “right” to do what it wants. The last is especially bizarre because forum requests/complaints aren’t legal challenges to ANet’s right to do anything – they’re requests, feedback, attempts to dialogue and engage ANet and to hopefully change the game for the better.

If we really want to talk about a sense of entitlement let’s talk about the WKs self-appointed authority to tell everyone to “love it or leave it”, and call frustrated players who voice concerns “toxic” and “negative”.

Dusty Moon.4382:

ipan.4356:

Dusty Moon.4382:

ipan.4356:

Dusty Moon.4382:

Nerelith.7360:

Dusty Moon.4382:

sishbob.3987:

Boneheart.3561:

sishbob.3987:

… the Living Story, which is something that the majority of players do not want.

[CITATION NEEDED]

Lemme correct that then. LS is something that a majority of players do not want over content that actually matters and changes the game.

The LS IS changing the game. That is the point – damaged LA, broken WP, Pale Tree maybe dying. Those are definite changes. How would a new chapter (like Prophecies to Factions in GW1) change things? All it would do is move players to a new area and the old area would stay the same.

How do you know the majority of players do not want the LS? Have you asked them or did you just assume because YOU don’t want it? Please state it properly, You don’t want the LS.

Factions gave us, a whole new continent to explore, New Mobs to face, new skills, old skills with a new feel… a new theme. New elites…. new professions.

I cannot say for most since I do not have a citation. But for many…. Living Story is not something even close to an expansion. For many players an expansion doesn’t Just give us new things to do…. it gives us new ways to play..even if we are playing Old things, in old locations, it expands the way we play those things. New professions, weapons, and skills give us new ways to experience Tyria. Living story is a new chapter with the same old characters to an old book. An expansion is a New Book, with new characters set in the old world.

There is a difference, and many, like me, may be tired of what seems to be something done.." on the cheap". LS is Not a substitute for a real expansion, LS may sate til the real expansion arrives. but…it’s buttered crackers… it’s what you serve BEFORE dinner to keep people from starving…. but it is not dinner.

We are not there yet. Cantha is closed off to the rest of the world because of the Elder Dragons. Kill all the Elder Dragons and you may be able to go to Cantha.

Also, that is one part, not the whole part. Again, ignoring the forest while focusing on one tree. There will be no faction fighting in this game because it is not designed for it. You want GW1 and it is still going on.

A.Net said from the beginning they do not want to do an Expansion if at all possible.

You realize that’s a deal breaker for a lot of people, right?

It is what it is. They said it, just repeating what A.Net said earlier. You can ignore their posts and what they say, but that was out there and that was said BEFORE LS1 was out so that was like 6 months into the game.

What deal? People paid for the game already, the deal is done. You make it sound like there is some contract – you bought the game as it was, all the stuff they had added in is extra. The LS is free content not paid content. Would it be nice to have an expansion – yes, but not if it ignores the rest of the story A.Net is spinning out right now. I am really interested to see where it will go.

I’m talking about if people leave the game, revenue dry’s up, servers shut down and merge.

You know, like what happens to 99% of all MMO’s.

How? They have your money. This is not a sub game but a free to play game. Their business model is based on the fact that you bought the game to play it. You don’t need the CS, that is just extra revenue. People really need to understand that – this game is B2P, meaning buy the box play forever (or as long as the servers are up).

You don’t understand at all. GW1 is still going – where is their revenue coming from?

You really don’t understand how business works, do you?

Without revenue, the company doesn’t see it as profitable anymore, and will shut it down.

You have to have revenue to continue operations.

@xev

I honestly believe the WK’s contribute about 80% of the toxicity to the forums.

They always turn what would otherwise be a productive conversation about the game into a competition of who can prove wrong doing and point fingers.

They escalate. They throw gasoline on the fire.

I’ll admit that about 20% of the toxicity is probably from people who are rude and insulting – but that’s about it.

The other 80% comes from WK’s.

Vayne.8563:

ipan.4356:

Dusty Moon.4382:

ipan.4356:

Dusty Moon.4382:

Nerelith.7360:

Dusty Moon.4382:

sishbob.3987:

Boneheart.3561:

sishbob.3987:

… the Living Story, which is something that the majority of players do not want.

[CITATION NEEDED]

Lemme correct that then. LS is something that a majority of players do not want over content that actually matters and changes the game.

The LS IS changing the game. That is the point – damaged LA, broken WP, Pale Tree maybe dying. Those are definite changes. How would a new chapter (like Prophecies to Factions in GW1) change things? All it would do is move players to a new area and the old area would stay the same.

How do you know the majority of players do not want the LS? Have you asked them or did you just assume because YOU don’t want it? Please state it properly, You don’t want the LS.

Factions gave us, a whole new continent to explore, New Mobs to face, new skills, old skills with a new feel… a new theme. New elites…. new professions.

I cannot say for most since I do not have a citation. But for many…. Living Story is not something even close to an expansion. For many players an expansion doesn’t Just give us new things to do…. it gives us new ways to play..even if we are playing Old things, in old locations, it expands the way we play those things. New professions, weapons, and skills give us new ways to experience Tyria. Living story is a new chapter with the same old characters to an old book. An expansion is a New Book, with new characters set in the old world.

There is a difference, and many, like me, may be tired of what seems to be something done.." on the cheap". LS is Not a substitute for a real expansion, LS may sate til the real expansion arrives. but…it’s buttered crackers… it’s what you serve BEFORE dinner to keep people from starving…. but it is not dinner.

We are not there yet. Cantha is closed off to the rest of the world because of the Elder Dragons. Kill all the Elder Dragons and you may be able to go to Cantha.

Also, that is one part, not the whole part. Again, ignoring the forest while focusing on one tree. There will be no faction fighting in this game because it is not designed for it. You want GW1 and it is still going on.

A.Net said from the beginning they do not want to do an Expansion if at all possible.

You realize that’s a deal breaker for a lot of people, right?

It is what it is. They said it, just repeating what A.Net said earlier. You can ignore their posts and what they say, but that was out there and that was said BEFORE LS1 was out so that was like 6 months into the game.

What deal? People paid for the game already, the deal is done. You make it sound like there is some contract – you bought the game as it was, all the stuff they had added in is extra. The LS is free content not paid content. Would it be nice to have an expansion – yes, but not if it ignores the rest of the story A.Net is spinning out right now. I am really interested to see where it will go.

I’m talking about if people leave the game, revenue dry’s up, servers shut down and merge.

You know, like what happens to 99% of all MMO’s.

Yes, it’s happened to most MMOs….but it hasn’t happened here. There’s a reason for that.

Anet is making enough money as it stands now to keep the servers running for a long long time, and that’s without China.

At some point they must have done something right, no?

We’ll see – in the end, the proof is in the pudding, as they say.

All I’m pointing out is what I’ve seen from experience.

MMO’s that ignore what their customers want usually tank – and Anet appears, to may of us, to be taking this same path.

This is all an attempt to avert that from happening.

ipan.4356:

Dusty Moon.4382:

ipan.4356:

Dusty Moon.4382:

ipan.4356:

Dusty Moon.4382:

Nerelith.7360:

Dusty Moon.4382:

sishbob.3987:

Boneheart.3561:

sishbob.3987:

… the Living Story, which is something that the majority of players do not want.

[CITATION NEEDED]

Lemme correct that then. LS is something that a majority of players do not want over content that actually matters and changes the game.

The LS IS changing the game. That is the point – damaged LA, broken WP, Pale Tree maybe dying. Those are definite changes. How would a new chapter (like Prophecies to Factions in GW1) change things? All it would do is move players to a new area and the old area would stay the same.

How do you know the majority of players do not want the LS? Have you asked them or did you just assume because YOU don’t want it? Please state it properly, You don’t want the LS.

Factions gave us, a whole new continent to explore, New Mobs to face, new skills, old skills with a new feel… a new theme. New elites…. new professions.

I cannot say for most since I do not have a citation. But for many…. Living Story is not something even close to an expansion. For many players an expansion doesn’t Just give us new things to do…. it gives us new ways to play..even if we are playing Old things, in old locations, it expands the way we play those things. New professions, weapons, and skills give us new ways to experience Tyria. Living story is a new chapter with the same old characters to an old book. An expansion is a New Book, with new characters set in the old world.

There is a difference, and many, like me, may be tired of what seems to be something done.." on the cheap". LS is Not a substitute for a real expansion, LS may sate til the real expansion arrives. but…it’s buttered crackers… it’s what you serve BEFORE dinner to keep people from starving…. but it is not dinner.

We are not there yet. Cantha is closed off to the rest of the world because of the Elder Dragons. Kill all the Elder Dragons and you may be able to go to Cantha.

Also, that is one part, not the whole part. Again, ignoring the forest while focusing on one tree. There will be no faction fighting in this game because it is not designed for it. You want GW1 and it is still going on.

A.Net said from the beginning they do not want to do an Expansion if at all possible.

You realize that’s a deal breaker for a lot of people, right?

It is what it is. They said it, just repeating what A.Net said earlier. You can ignore their posts and what they say, but that was out there and that was said BEFORE LS1 was out so that was like 6 months into the game.

What deal? People paid for the game already, the deal is done. You make it sound like there is some contract – you bought the game as it was, all the stuff they had added in is extra. The LS is free content not paid content. Would it be nice to have an expansion – yes, but not if it ignores the rest of the story A.Net is spinning out right now. I am really interested to see where it will go.

I’m talking about if people leave the game, revenue dry’s up, servers shut down and merge.

You know, like what happens to 99% of all MMO’s.

How? They have your money. This is not a sub game but a free to play game. Their business model is based on the fact that you bought the game to play it. You don’t need the CS, that is just extra revenue. People really need to understand that – this game is B2P, meaning buy the box play forever (or as long as the servers are up).

You don’t understand at all. GW1 is still going – where is their revenue coming from?

You really don’t understand how business works, do you?

Without revenue, the company doesn’t see it as profitable anymore, and will shut it down.

You have to have revenue to continue operations.

I think you’re the one confused. It’s true that a business needs revenue to continue operations, but you’ve already given them your money when you bought the game. You not buying more stuff from them may mean they don’t get any revenue from you from now on, but that was never part of their business model. What Dusty has said is that the store sales are extra revenue.

Unless you can stop people (new players) from buying the game and make everyone who has the game not spend a dime for gems, you’re not cutting off the revenue stream.

Trixie.7614:

I had no problem buying my precursors for my legendaries. No one ever said making a legendary was easy and fun . If it was, everyone would have them. Arena net said precursor crafting is comming so calm your kittens. They also said that it’s not going to be easy, so don’t expect to make your precursor from 2-3 Arah runs.

ArenaNet: “Well, the CDI was a success, here’s precursor crafting!”

Thomas Malthus: “I logged onto my character and I didn’t have a precursor. Did you even look at the CDI, you idiot! This flop has bought you maybe a month before the game collapses, but knowing you you won’t lift a finger. So long.”

ipan.4356:

We’ll see – in the end, the proof is in the pudding, as they say.

All I’m pointing out is what I’ve seen from experience.

MMO’s that ignore what their customers want usually tank – and Anet appears, to may of us, to be taking this same path.

This is all an attempt to avert that from happening.

I think the issues that are currently plaguing GW2 are a direct result of ANet’s business model.

I mean… why would you want to deliver permanent content when you can just lazily poop out new skins and mini-pets every week that people keep buying?

I think they put all their eggs into LS for one reason: the production costs of LS are much cheaper than developing any other kind of content.

In short, I believe they are cutting corners.

It’s not going to suffice.

People will leave – sales will dry up. Servers will shut down.

It will probably take years – event he worst MMO’s hang on for a long time.

But it’s not going to grow, it’s not going to expand. It’s going to fight a war of attrition and bleeding over a long time.

The way I see it, the LS is actually being used to test out new things..

Scavenger Hunt would be awesome, we all seem to agree on that, but a Scavenger Hunt done designed poorly or that impacted on other functions/mechanics of the game would only server to send the forums into another frenzy.. .. so LS has been giving some small scale scavenger hunts to test the water and so far its not been so bad imo.
At the same time the LS is providing a 2 weekly inception of new content.. new maps, new gear, new mobs, new crafting… take that over 3 months worth of LS and you start to see more of an expansion actually coming through.. then also add the new maps and the feature pack, bug fixes etc.. seems like were getting a fair amount of expansion albeit to PvE mainly…. Granted that is where there is some room for criticism as other facets of the game have been too long left to fester, hopefully the incoming feature update will help throw some much needed QoL to areas like WvW, PvP until they finally decide what they intend to do with these parts of the game.. but yes they need to start communicating their ideas more.. doesn’t have to be “WHEN? or WHAT” but we do need some insight as to ANET are considering for future content/mechanics.. open up some discussion around your ideas not the other way round.

OP – Legendaries are supposed to the pinnacle of our weaponry cosmetic achievements.. much like the traditional “best in stat” gear treadmills we get from most other MMO’s.. they are not supposed to be easy to get hold of, but at the same time it was never mentioned it was a race to get it. In other words if you really want one or some, then be realistic in your goals and work towards them, I have been here since BWE1 and like you I never really bothered with Legendaries until maybe a few months back.. now I am busy gathering what I need, whilst running the game and having fun.
No one needs to buy anything or actually farm anything its all down to personal goals.. you want it fast then farm or whip out the CC and buy the gems.
Personally thought I find there are more than enough ways in game to make coin and farm loot/mats etc .. Dungeons, farming events (legitimately), TP flip, crafting and old fashioned farming of maps… I know not everyone wants to do it, so the credit card option is always there if you want to.

players forget.. its a game to us, but it’s a business to ANET/NCSoft.. aside from a box sale the only thing that makes money is the TP.. if everything in game could be farmed in a matter of weeks/months, then firstly our insatiable demand for new things would grow and grow but ANET cant work any faster ad to that if they aren’t keeping players in game then they are likely not going to keep the coffers very full.. content slows, game goes maintenance mode and the n lights out… Legendaries as well as other things are the carrots.. if you want them then you got to earn them or pay up.

Vayne.8563:

ipan.4356:

Dusty Moon.4382:

ipan.4356:

Dusty Moon.4382:

Nerelith.7360:

Dusty Moon.4382:

sishbob.3987:

Boneheart.3561:

sishbob.3987:

… the Living Story, which is something that the majority of players do not want.

[CITATION NEEDED]

Lemme correct that then. LS is something that a majority of players do not want over content that actually matters and changes the game.

The LS IS changing the game. That is the point – damaged LA, broken WP, Pale Tree maybe dying. Those are definite changes. How would a new chapter (like Prophecies to Factions in GW1) change things? All it would do is move players to a new area and the old area would stay the same.

How do you know the majority of players do not want the LS? Have you asked them or did you just assume because YOU don’t want it? Please state it properly, You don’t want the LS.

Factions gave us, a whole new continent to explore, New Mobs to face, new skills, old skills with a new feel… a new theme. New elites…. new professions.

I cannot say for most since I do not have a citation. But for many…. Living Story is not something even close to an expansion. For many players an expansion doesn’t Just give us new things to do…. it gives us new ways to play..even if we are playing Old things, in old locations, it expands the way we play those things. New professions, weapons, and skills give us new ways to experience Tyria. Living story is a new chapter with the same old characters to an old book. An expansion is a New Book, with new characters set in the old world.

There is a difference, and many, like me, may be tired of what seems to be something done.." on the cheap". LS is Not a substitute for a real expansion, LS may sate til the real expansion arrives. but…it’s buttered crackers… it’s what you serve BEFORE dinner to keep people from starving…. but it is not dinner.

We are not there yet. Cantha is closed off to the rest of the world because of the Elder Dragons. Kill all the Elder Dragons and you may be able to go to Cantha.

Also, that is one part, not the whole part. Again, ignoring the forest while focusing on one tree. There will be no faction fighting in this game because it is not designed for it. You want GW1 and it is still going on.

A.Net said from the beginning they do not want to do an Expansion if at all possible.

You realize that’s a deal breaker for a lot of people, right?

It is what it is. They said it, just repeating what A.Net said earlier. You can ignore their posts and what they say, but that was out there and that was said BEFORE LS1 was out so that was like 6 months into the game.

What deal? People paid for the game already, the deal is done. You make it sound like there is some contract – you bought the game as it was, all the stuff they had added in is extra. The LS is free content not paid content. Would it be nice to have an expansion – yes, but not if it ignores the rest of the story A.Net is spinning out right now. I am really interested to see where it will go.

I’m talking about if people leave the game, revenue dry’s up, servers shut down and merge.

You know, like what happens to 99% of all MMO’s.

Yes, it’s happened to most MMOs….but it hasn’t happened here. There’s a reason for that.

Anet is making enough money as it stands now to keep the servers running for a long long time, and that’s without China.

At some point they must have done something right, no?

That point was nearly 10 years ago when they released GW1.

ipan.4356:

Vayne.8563:

ipan.4356:

Dusty Moon.4382:

ipan.4356:

Dusty Moon.4382:

Nerelith.7360:

Dusty Moon.4382:

sishbob.3987:

Boneheart.3561:

sishbob.3987:

… the Living Story, which is something that the majority of players do not want.

[CITATION NEEDED]

Lemme correct that then. LS is something that a majority of players do not want over content that actually matters and changes the game.

The LS IS changing the game. That is the point – damaged LA, broken WP, Pale Tree maybe dying. Those are definite changes. How would a new chapter (like Prophecies to Factions in GW1) change things? All it would do is move players to a new area and the old area would stay the same.

How do you know the majority of players do not want the LS? Have you asked them or did you just assume because YOU don’t want it? Please state it properly, You don’t want the LS.

Factions gave us, a whole new continent to explore, New Mobs to face, new skills, old skills with a new feel… a new theme. New elites…. new professions.

I cannot say for most since I do not have a citation. But for many…. Living Story is not something even close to an expansion. For many players an expansion doesn’t Just give us new things to do…. it gives us new ways to play..even if we are playing Old things, in old locations, it expands the way we play those things. New professions, weapons, and skills give us new ways to experience Tyria. Living story is a new chapter with the same old characters to an old book. An expansion is a New Book, with new characters set in the old world.

There is a difference, and many, like me, may be tired of what seems to be something done.." on the cheap". LS is Not a substitute for a real expansion, LS may sate til the real expansion arrives. but…it’s buttered crackers… it’s what you serve BEFORE dinner to keep people from starving…. but it is not dinner.

We are not there yet. Cantha is closed off to the rest of the world because of the Elder Dragons. Kill all the Elder Dragons and you may be able to go to Cantha.

Also, that is one part, not the whole part. Again, ignoring the forest while focusing on one tree. There will be no faction fighting in this game because it is not designed for it. You want GW1 and it is still going on.

A.Net said from the beginning they do not want to do an Expansion if at all possible.

You realize that’s a deal breaker for a lot of people, right?

It is what it is. They said it, just repeating what A.Net said earlier. You can ignore their posts and what they say, but that was out there and that was said BEFORE LS1 was out so that was like 6 months into the game.

What deal? People paid for the game already, the deal is done. You make it sound like there is some contract – you bought the game as it was, all the stuff they had added in is extra. The LS is free content not paid content. Would it be nice to have an expansion – yes, but not if it ignores the rest of the story A.Net is spinning out right now. I am really interested to see where it will go.

I’m talking about if people leave the game, revenue dry’s up, servers shut down and merge.

You know, like what happens to 99% of all MMO’s.

Yes, it’s happened to most MMOs….but it hasn’t happened here. There’s a reason for that.

Anet is making enough money as it stands now to keep the servers running for a long long time, and that’s without China.

At some point they must have done something right, no?

We’ll see – in the end, the proof is in the pudding, as they say.

All I’m pointing out is what I’ve seen from experience.

MMO’s that ignore what their customers want usually tank – and Anet appears, to may of us, to be taking this same path.

This is all an attempt to avert that from happening.

I don’t think Guild Wars 2 is ignoring what their customers want. They may very well be ignoring what you specifically want and some people like you. But you know, there’s a whole lot of people out there who are looking for what this game offers.

I believe there are enough of us to keep the game going for a long long time.

Nevets Crimsonwing.5271:

Vayne.8563:

ipan.4356:

Dusty Moon.4382:

ipan.4356:

Dusty Moon.4382:

Nerelith.7360:

Dusty Moon.4382:

sishbob.3987:

Boneheart.3561:

sishbob.3987:

… the Living Story, which is something that the majority of players do not want.

[CITATION NEEDED]

Lemme correct that then. LS is something that a majority of players do not want over content that actually matters and changes the game.

The LS IS changing the game. That is the point – damaged LA, broken WP, Pale Tree maybe dying. Those are definite changes. How would a new chapter (like Prophecies to Factions in GW1) change things? All it would do is move players to a new area and the old area would stay the same.

How do you know the majority of players do not want the LS? Have you asked them or did you just assume because YOU don’t want it? Please state it properly, You don’t want the LS.

Factions gave us, a whole new continent to explore, New Mobs to face, new skills, old skills with a new feel… a new theme. New elites…. new professions.

I cannot say for most since I do not have a citation. But for many…. Living Story is not something even close to an expansion. For many players an expansion doesn’t Just give us new things to do…. it gives us new ways to play..even if we are playing Old things, in old locations, it expands the way we play those things. New professions, weapons, and skills give us new ways to experience Tyria. Living story is a new chapter with the same old characters to an old book. An expansion is a New Book, with new characters set in the old world.

There is a difference, and many, like me, may be tired of what seems to be something done.." on the cheap". LS is Not a substitute for a real expansion, LS may sate til the real expansion arrives. but…it’s buttered crackers… it’s what you serve BEFORE dinner to keep people from starving…. but it is not dinner.

We are not there yet. Cantha is closed off to the rest of the world because of the Elder Dragons. Kill all the Elder Dragons and you may be able to go to Cantha.

Also, that is one part, not the whole part. Again, ignoring the forest while focusing on one tree. There will be no faction fighting in this game because it is not designed for it. You want GW1 and it is still going on.

A.Net said from the beginning they do not want to do an Expansion if at all possible.

You realize that’s a deal breaker for a lot of people, right?

It is what it is. They said it, just repeating what A.Net said earlier. You can ignore their posts and what they say, but that was out there and that was said BEFORE LS1 was out so that was like 6 months into the game.

What deal? People paid for the game already, the deal is done. You make it sound like there is some contract – you bought the game as it was, all the stuff they had added in is extra. The LS is free content not paid content. Would it be nice to have an expansion – yes, but not if it ignores the rest of the story A.Net is spinning out right now. I am really interested to see where it will go.

I’m talking about if people leave the game, revenue dry’s up, servers shut down and merge.

You know, like what happens to 99% of all MMO’s.

Yes, it’s happened to most MMOs….but it hasn’t happened here. There’s a reason for that.

Anet is making enough money as it stands now to keep the servers running for a long long time, and that’s without China.

At some point they must have done something right, no?

That point was nearly 10 years ago when they released GW1.

This game has made almost as much money in two years as Guild Wars 1 did in it’s first six.

Vayne.8563:

ipan.4356:

Vayne.8563:

ipan.4356:

Dusty Moon.4382:

ipan.4356:

Dusty Moon.4382:

Nerelith.7360:

Dusty Moon.4382:

sishbob.3987:

Boneheart.3561:

sishbob.3987:

… the Living Story, which is something that the majority of players do not want.

[CITATION NEEDED]

Lemme correct that then. LS is something that a majority of players do not want over content that actually matters and changes the game.

The LS IS changing the game. That is the point – damaged LA, broken WP, Pale Tree maybe dying. Those are definite changes. How would a new chapter (like Prophecies to Factions in GW1) change things? All it would do is move players to a new area and the old area would stay the same.

How do you know the majority of players do not want the LS? Have you asked them or did you just assume because YOU don’t want it? Please state it properly, You don’t want the LS.

Factions gave us, a whole new continent to explore, New Mobs to face, new skills, old skills with a new feel… a new theme. New elites…. new professions.

I cannot say for most since I do not have a citation. But for many…. Living Story is not something even close to an expansion. For many players an expansion doesn’t Just give us new things to do…. it gives us new ways to play..even if we are playing Old things, in old locations, it expands the way we play those things. New professions, weapons, and skills give us new ways to experience Tyria. Living story is a new chapter with the same old characters to an old book. An expansion is a New Book, with new characters set in the old world.

There is a difference, and many, like me, may be tired of what seems to be something done.." on the cheap". LS is Not a substitute for a real expansion, LS may sate til the real expansion arrives. but…it’s buttered crackers… it’s what you serve BEFORE dinner to keep people from starving…. but it is not dinner.

We are not there yet. Cantha is closed off to the rest of the world because of the Elder Dragons. Kill all the Elder Dragons and you may be able to go to Cantha.

Also, that is one part, not the whole part. Again, ignoring the forest while focusing on one tree. There will be no faction fighting in this game because it is not designed for it. You want GW1 and it is still going on.

A.Net said from the beginning they do not want to do an Expansion if at all possible.

You realize that’s a deal breaker for a lot of people, right?

It is what it is. They said it, just repeating what A.Net said earlier. You can ignore their posts and what they say, but that was out there and that was said BEFORE LS1 was out so that was like 6 months into the game.

What deal? People paid for the game already, the deal is done. You make it sound like there is some contract – you bought the game as it was, all the stuff they had added in is extra. The LS is free content not paid content. Would it be nice to have an expansion – yes, but not if it ignores the rest of the story A.Net is spinning out right now. I am really interested to see where it will go.

I’m talking about if people leave the game, revenue dry’s up, servers shut down and merge.

You know, like what happens to 99% of all MMO’s.

Yes, it’s happened to most MMOs….but it hasn’t happened here. There’s a reason for that.

Anet is making enough money as it stands now to keep the servers running for a long long time, and that’s without China.

At some point they must have done something right, no?

We’ll see – in the end, the proof is in the pudding, as they say.

All I’m pointing out is what I’ve seen from experience.

MMO’s that ignore what their customers want usually tank – and Anet appears, to may of us, to be taking this same path.

This is all an attempt to avert that from happening.

I don’t think Guild Wars 2 is ignoring what their customers want. They may very well be ignoring what you specifically want and some people like you. But you know, there’s a whole lot of people out there who are looking for what this game offers.

I believe there are enough of us to keep the game going for a long long time.

At the end of the day – the financial reports will speak for themselves.

You can keep telling me I’m off base on my assessment of the state of the game, and the feelings of the playerbase, but you aren’t convincing me.

I see (and feel) massive dissatisfaction with the game – and I am willing to bet that this is reflected in declining cash shop sales.

Anet isn’t going to prove either one of us right with any information, so ultimately, this argument can only be settled when and if the game declines.

ipan.4356:

I think they put all their eggs into LS for one reason: the production costs of LS are much cheaper than developing any other kind of content.

In short, I believe they are cutting corners.

It’s not going to suffice.

People will leave – sales will dry up. Servers will shut down.

It will probably take years – event he worst MMO’s hang on for a long time.

But it’s not going to grow, it’s not going to expand. It’s going to fight a war of attrition and bleeding over a long time.

I don’t know why. But I keep thinking of this:

Vayne.8563:

Nevets Crimsonwing.5271:

Vayne.8563:

ipan.4356:

Dusty Moon.4382:

ipan.4356:

Dusty Moon.4382:

Nerelith.7360:

Dusty Moon.4382:

sishbob.3987:

Boneheart.3561:

sishbob.3987:

… the Living Story, which is something that the majority of players do not want.

[CITATION NEEDED]

Lemme correct that then. LS is something that a majority of players do not want over content that actually matters and changes the game.

The LS IS changing the game. That is the point – damaged LA, broken WP, Pale Tree maybe dying. Those are definite changes. How would a new chapter (like Prophecies to Factions in GW1) change things? All it would do is move players to a new area and the old area would stay the same.

How do you know the majority of players do not want the LS? Have you asked them or did you just assume because YOU don’t want it? Please state it properly, You don’t want the LS.

Factions gave us, a whole new continent to explore, New Mobs to face, new skills, old skills with a new feel… a new theme. New elites…. new professions.

I cannot say for most since I do not have a citation. But for many…. Living Story is not something even close to an expansion. For many players an expansion doesn’t Just give us new things to do…. it gives us new ways to play..even if we are playing Old things, in old locations, it expands the way we play those things. New professions, weapons, and skills give us new ways to experience Tyria. Living story is a new chapter with the same old characters to an old book. An expansion is a New Book, with new characters set in the old world.

There is a difference, and many, like me, may be tired of what seems to be something done.." on the cheap". LS is Not a substitute for a real expansion, LS may sate til the real expansion arrives. but…it’s buttered crackers… it’s what you serve BEFORE dinner to keep people from starving…. but it is not dinner.

We are not there yet. Cantha is closed off to the rest of the world because of the Elder Dragons. Kill all the Elder Dragons and you may be able to go to Cantha.

Also, that is one part, not the whole part. Again, ignoring the forest while focusing on one tree. There will be no faction fighting in this game because it is not designed for it. You want GW1 and it is still going on.

A.Net said from the beginning they do not want to do an Expansion if at all possible.

You realize that’s a deal breaker for a lot of people, right?

It is what it is. They said it, just repeating what A.Net said earlier. You can ignore their posts and what they say, but that was out there and that was said BEFORE LS1 was out so that was like 6 months into the game.

What deal? People paid for the game already, the deal is done. You make it sound like there is some contract – you bought the game as it was, all the stuff they had added in is extra. The LS is free content not paid content. Would it be nice to have an expansion – yes, but not if it ignores the rest of the story A.Net is spinning out right now. I am really interested to see where it will go.

I’m talking about if people leave the game, revenue dry’s up, servers shut down and merge.

You know, like what happens to 99% of all MMO’s.

Yes, it’s happened to most MMOs….but it hasn’t happened here. There’s a reason for that.

Anet is making enough money as it stands now to keep the servers running for a long long time, and that’s without China.

At some point they must have done something right, no?

That point was nearly 10 years ago when they released GW1.

This game has made almost as much money in two years as Guild Wars 1 did in it’s first six.

Diablo 3 also broke records in box sales – and people hated it. The RMAH shut down after a protracted battle.

It’s no surprise at all that GW2 did so well at launch – the issue here is the roadmap, and the fact that we are 2 years in with no major content release.

Just low hanging fruit.

Vayne.8563:

Nevets Crimsonwing.5271:

Vayne.8563:

ipan.4356:

Dusty Moon.4382:

ipan.4356:

Dusty Moon.4382:

Nerelith.7360:

Dusty Moon.4382:

sishbob.3987:

Boneheart.3561:

sishbob.3987:

… the Living Story, which is something that the majority of players do not want.

[CITATION NEEDED]

Lemme correct that then. LS is something that a majority of players do not want over content that actually matters and changes the game.

The LS IS changing the game. That is the point – damaged LA, broken WP, Pale Tree maybe dying. Those are definite changes. How would a new chapter (like Prophecies to Factions in GW1) change things? All it would do is move players to a new area and the old area would stay the same.

How do you know the majority of players do not want the LS? Have you asked them or did you just assume because YOU don’t want it? Please state it properly, You don’t want the LS.

Factions gave us, a whole new continent to explore, New Mobs to face, new skills, old skills with a new feel… a new theme. New elites…. new professions.

I cannot say for most since I do not have a citation. But for many…. Living Story is not something even close to an expansion. For many players an expansion doesn’t Just give us new things to do…. it gives us new ways to play..even if we are playing Old things, in old locations, it expands the way we play those things. New professions, weapons, and skills give us new ways to experience Tyria. Living story is a new chapter with the same old characters to an old book. An expansion is a New Book, with new characters set in the old world.

There is a difference, and many, like me, may be tired of what seems to be something done.." on the cheap". LS is Not a substitute for a real expansion, LS may sate til the real expansion arrives. but…it’s buttered crackers… it’s what you serve BEFORE dinner to keep people from starving…. but it is not dinner.

We are not there yet. Cantha is closed off to the rest of the world because of the Elder Dragons. Kill all the Elder Dragons and you may be able to go to Cantha.

Also, that is one part, not the whole part. Again, ignoring the forest while focusing on one tree. There will be no faction fighting in this game because it is not designed for it. You want GW1 and it is still going on.

A.Net said from the beginning they do not want to do an Expansion if at all possible.

You realize that’s a deal breaker for a lot of people, right?

It is what it is. They said it, just repeating what A.Net said earlier. You can ignore their posts and what they say, but that was out there and that was said BEFORE LS1 was out so that was like 6 months into the game.

What deal? People paid for the game already, the deal is done. You make it sound like there is some contract – you bought the game as it was, all the stuff they had added in is extra. The LS is free content not paid content. Would it be nice to have an expansion – yes, but not if it ignores the rest of the story A.Net is spinning out right now. I am really interested to see where it will go.

I’m talking about if people leave the game, revenue dry’s up, servers shut down and merge.

You know, like what happens to 99% of all MMO’s.

Yes, it’s happened to most MMOs….but it hasn’t happened here. There’s a reason for that.

Anet is making enough money as it stands now to keep the servers running for a long long time, and that’s without China.

At some point they must have done something right, no?

That point was nearly 10 years ago when they released GW1.

This game has made almost as much money in two years as Guild Wars 1 did in it’s first six.

They couldn’t have released GW2 without GW1.

Nevets Crimsonwing.5271:

Vayne.8563:

Nevets Crimsonwing.5271:

Vayne.8563:

ipan.4356:

Dusty Moon.4382:

ipan.4356:

Dusty Moon.4382:

Nerelith.7360:

Dusty Moon.4382:

sishbob.3987:

Boneheart.3561:

sishbob.3987:

… the Living Story, which is something that the majority of players do not want.

[CITATION NEEDED]

Lemme correct that then. LS is something that a majority of players do not want over content that actually matters and changes the game.

The LS IS changing the game. That is the point – damaged LA, broken WP, Pale Tree maybe dying. Those are definite changes. How would a new chapter (like Prophecies to Factions in GW1) change things? All it would do is move players to a new area and the old area would stay the same.

How do you know the majority of players do not want the LS? Have you asked them or did you just assume because YOU don’t want it? Please state it properly, You don’t want the LS.

Factions gave us, a whole new continent to explore, New Mobs to face, new skills, old skills with a new feel… a new theme. New elites…. new professions.

I cannot say for most since I do not have a citation. But for many…. Living Story is not something even close to an expansion. For many players an expansion doesn’t Just give us new things to do…. it gives us new ways to play..even if we are playing Old things, in old locations, it expands the way we play those things. New professions, weapons, and skills give us new ways to experience Tyria. Living story is a new chapter with the same old characters to an old book. An expansion is a New Book, with new characters set in the old world.

There is a difference, and many, like me, may be tired of what seems to be something done.." on the cheap". LS is Not a substitute for a real expansion, LS may sate til the real expansion arrives. but…it’s buttered crackers… it’s what you serve BEFORE dinner to keep people from starving…. but it is not dinner.

We are not there yet. Cantha is closed off to the rest of the world because of the Elder Dragons. Kill all the Elder Dragons and you may be able to go to Cantha.

Also, that is one part, not the whole part. Again, ignoring the forest while focusing on one tree. There will be no faction fighting in this game because it is not designed for it. You want GW1 and it is still going on.

A.Net said from the beginning they do not want to do an Expansion if at all possible.

You realize that’s a deal breaker for a lot of people, right?

It is what it is. They said it, just repeating what A.Net said earlier. You can ignore their posts and what they say, but that was out there and that was said BEFORE LS1 was out so that was like 6 months into the game.

What deal? People paid for the game already, the deal is done. You make it sound like there is some contract – you bought the game as it was, all the stuff they had added in is extra. The LS is free content not paid content. Would it be nice to have an expansion – yes, but not if it ignores the rest of the story A.Net is spinning out right now. I am really interested to see where it will go.

I’m talking about if people leave the game, revenue dry’s up, servers shut down and merge.

You know, like what happens to 99% of all MMO’s.

Yes, it’s happened to most MMOs….but it hasn’t happened here. There’s a reason for that.

Anet is making enough money as it stands now to keep the servers running for a long long time, and that’s without China.

At some point they must have done something right, no?

That point was nearly 10 years ago when they released GW1.

This game has made almost as much money in two years as Guild Wars 1 did in it’s first six.

They couldn’t have released GW2 without GW1.

They couldn’t have released Guild Wars 1 without NCsoft. What’s your point. This game is already more successful than Guild Wars 1 was…the only question is how long that success will last.

And you know, Guild Wars 1 came out at a time with far less competition. It was the only free to play multiplayer fantasy game out there. There weren’t 50 free MMOs to choose from at the same time…and Guild Wars 2 is still making more money than Guild Wars 1 did.

So I’m not sure what your point is.

ipan.4356:

Diablo 3 also broke records in box sales – and people hated it. The RMAH shut down after a protracted battle.

It’s no surprise at all that GW2 did so well at launch – the issue here is the roadmap, and the fact that we are 2 years in with no major content release.

Just low hanging fruit.

To give them credit, Diablo 3 actually did a decent job of reviving their population and welcoming in new players with, dare I say, an expansion. gasp!

Flytrap.8075:

ipan.4356:

Diablo 3 also broke records in box sales – and people hated it. The RMAH shut down after a protracted battle.

It’s no surprise at all that GW2 did so well at launch – the issue here is the roadmap, and the fact that we are 2 years in with no major content release.

Just low hanging fruit.

To give them credit, Diablo 3 actually did a decent job of reviving their population and welcoming in new players with, dare I say, an expansion. gasp!

I know, I actually went back and played after RMAH shut down and Reaper came out – it was pretty good, but they need some kind of infinite dungeon.

ipan.4356:

Vayne.8563:

Nevets Crimsonwing.5271:

Vayne.8563:

ipan.4356:

Dusty Moon.4382:

ipan.4356:

Dusty Moon.4382:

Nerelith.7360:

Dusty Moon.4382:

sishbob.3987:

Boneheart.3561:

sishbob.3987:

… the Living Story, which is something that the majority of players do not want.

[CITATION NEEDED]

snip

snip

How do you know the majority of players do not want the LS? Have you asked them or did you just assume because YOU don’t want it? Please state it properly, You don’t want the LS.

Factions gave us, a whole new continent to explore, New Mobs to face, new skills, old skills with a new feel… a new theme. New elites…. new professions.

I cannot say for most since I do not have a citation. But for many…. Living Story is not something even close to an expansion. For many players an expansion doesn’t Just give us new things to do…. it gives us new ways to play..even if we are playing Old things, in old locations, it expands the way we play those things. New professions, weapons, and skills give us new ways to experience Tyria. Living story is a new chapter with the same old characters to an old book. An expansion is a New Book, with new characters set in the old world.

There is a difference, and many, like me, may be tired of what seems to be something done.." on the cheap". LS is Not a substitute for a real expansion, LS may sate til the real expansion arrives. but…it’s buttered crackers… it’s what you serve BEFORE dinner to keep people from starving…. but it is not dinner.

We are not there yet. Cantha is closed off to the rest of the world because of the Elder Dragons. Kill all the Elder Dragons and you may be able to go to Cantha.

Also, that is one part, not the whole part. Again, ignoring the forest while focusing on one tree. There will be no faction fighting in this game because it is not designed for it. You want GW1 and it is still going on.

A.Net said from the beginning they do not want to do an Expansion if at all possible.

You realize that’s a deal breaker for a lot of people, right?

It is what it is. They said it, just repeating what A.Net said earlier. You can ignore their posts and what they say, but that was out there and that was said BEFORE LS1 was out so that was like 6 months into the game.

What deal? People paid for the game already, the deal is done. You make it sound like there is some contract – you bought the game as it was, all the stuff they had added in is extra. The LS is free content not paid content. Would it be nice to have an expansion – yes, but not if it ignores the rest of the story A.Net is spinning out right now. I am really interested to see where it will go.

I’m talking about if people leave the game, revenue dry’s up, servers shut down and merge.

You know, like what happens to 99% of all MMO’s.

Yes, it’s happened to most MMOs….but it hasn’t happened here. There’s a reason for that.

Anet is making enough money as it stands now to keep the servers running for a long long time, and that’s without China.

At some point they must have done something right, no?

That point was nearly 10 years ago when they released GW1.

This game has made almost as much money in two years as Guild Wars 1 did in it’s first six.

Diablo 3 also broke records in box sales – and people hated it. The RMAH shut down after a protracted battle.

It’s no surprise at all that GW2 did so well at launch – the issue here is the roadmap, and the fact that we are 2 years in with no major content release.

Just low hanging fruit.

See, I’ve been playing this game for two years and I’ve seen many major content releases. It’s just not content you like. And that’s okay.

The thing is people did hate D3 at launch and it showed in reviews. The reviews of Guild Wars 2 were much better.

Now here we are too years later and you want more content, more content, more content. Well okay. Everyone wants more content.

But talking down the content we already has doesn’t help your argument. I don’t know about you but I’ve played some very enjoyable content. The Nightmare tower was great. The Marionette Fight. Loved it. Escape from Lion’s Arch was a hoot. I enjoyed the cliffs (less so the Queen’s Pavillion and the Gauntlet). I did enjoy SAB.

There’s be a lot of content. It’s just not all in game.

Vayne.8563:

This game has made almost as much money in two years as Guild Wars 1 did in it’s first six.

Casinos make more money than Arcades too.

Haishao.6851:

Vayne.8563:

This game has made almost as much money in two years as Guild Wars 1 did in it’s first six.

Casinos make more money than Arcades too.

That’s true. Not relevant to my point though. People are suggesting this game isn’t doing well, or it’s not going to be doing well, but they have no evidence to back it up. It’s just that the game doesn’t appeal to them, so they assume it doesn’t appeal to anybody, or in fact, that it doesn’t appeal to enough people to support itself.

Since someone keeps bringing up Guild Wars 1, I’m pointing out that this game is more successful in a shorter time and might be as successful in the longer term. Of course the entire landscape of computer games has changed since Guild Wars 1 came out anyway. Comparisons about this are silly anyway.

Vayne.8563:

They couldn’t have released Guild Wars 1 without NCsoft. What’s your point. This game is already more successful than Guild Wars 1 was…the only question is how long that success will last.

And you know, Guild Wars 1 came out at a time with far less competition. It was the only free to play multiplayer fantasy game out there. There weren’t 50 free MMOs to choose from at the same time…and Guild Wars 2 is still making more money than Guild Wars 1 did.

So I’m not sure what your point is.

My point is that many people, myself included, trusted ArenaNet because they had established themselves in the market as being something different. GW1 was a CORPG that focused on interplayer cooperation and instanced content, and despite being a virtually unknown company before GW1 was released, they still managed to grab a nice market share and compete with WoW, especially with their innovative B2P model.

They established a wonderful, trusting relationship with a lot of consumers, and they made a name for themselves.

Thus, when GW2 came around the company had a strong foundation and a wider audience to whom they could advertise their game.

It’s a lot easier to profit when you aren’t starting from scratch.

Look, GW2 was different than the original, and that’s fine. It still was an incredible game at launch and in many ways improved from the original. For many people (note, I’m not speaking for everyone, I’m not speaking for you) the past two years saw larger and larger deviations not only from the original game, but from the GW2 manifesto as well.

With no expansion in sight, a focus on living story and simple QOL changes, the game feels like it’s moving at too slow a pace and that is disappointing for many people (note, I’m not speaking for everyone, I’m not speaking for you.)

Well, personally, I feel like this game is on the endangered species list, where I do not want it to be, I hasten to add, and I feel a big part of the reason is anet’s almost pathological dedication to giving us more Living Story instead of, oh, I don’t know, an expansion. Evidence? It’s all over the forums.

As my little voice put it, just the other day, “Oh, look, anet cares again.” Which was followed by a pitch perfect rendition of Fluttershy’s trademark ‘yay.’

Red names chatting up a storm! Almost as though someone higher up on the food chain noticed that the grumpiness in regard to GW2 was threatening to spread beyond the purview of the official forums (where it can be readily contained and con*trolled*), which caused this higher up someone to scowl meaningfully at those farther down. Or maybe it was just gas. We can surely thank SAB for this, and/or that ill-fated interview. Whatever it was, it seems to have lit a fire under some dev-ine bottoms, and now our beloved devs are back to singing for their supper. Or at least putting on a show of it. More CDIs! Yay.

In the midst of all this hubbub, I am uncomfortably reminded of Cryptic’s last days with City of Heroes, before they sold out to NCSoft. It seemed like pretty much everything the players wanted was something the Cryptic devs said would take too much time and effort to do. My go to example: like being able to change the colors of powers. Can my fire blaster has green flames, huh, huh? “No, the colors are baked-in!” When Cryptic was gone, big things started happening. Including – ermahgerd – green flames. Then, irony of ironies, after saving Paragon City, NCSoft turned heel and nuked it. All gone.

But that could never happen here. Could it.

Living Story is a drop in ye olde bucket, and more and more of us out here in the megasuffered wastelands are dying of thirst. Except, of course, for a certain contingent here on the forums who seem to derive some unholy sustenance from poking and prodding at those who dare to complain or ask for more. Wherever there’s a right to be wronged, that’s where you will find them. Wronging rights, right and left.

Yay.

ipan.4356:

Vayne.8563:

This game has made almost as much money in two years as Guild Wars 1 did in it’s first six.

Diablo 3 also broke records in box sales – and people hated it. The RMAH shut down after a protracted battle.

It’s no surprise at all that GW2 did so well at launch – the issue here is the roadmap, and the fact that we are 2 years in with no major content release.

Just low hanging fruit.

I don’t think the Megaserver is a low hanging fruit. That probably took hundreds of hours and dozens of people with technical knowhow far beyond us to figure out how to get it working as smoothly as it did.

With that said,

• Colored Commander tags is a low hanging fruit.
• Finally adding WvW skill trees for Golem Mastery is a low hanging fruit.
• Balance changes are balance changes, and are expected. Expected every 5-6 month….hell no. That just makes the game feel very stale and boring. 2-3 months? yeah! and it should have been every 2-3 months.
• 40 New traits isn’t a massive addition in content. Its a good addition, but at face value, to veteran and new players, its not really that big of a change. Its also a low hanging fruit.

What would constitute a big, massive, game changing change to me?,

• Changing the way a Class Mechanic works, like for example, removing AI pets from Rangers and implementing a much more easily controllable class mechanic, or Adding different Varieties of Deathshroud to Necromancers, or letting Mesmers and Guardians customize their F1-4 skills. That would be a MASSIVE addition.
• Adding a new weapon set (5 new skills) to every profession (which would mean 20 new skills to Elementalists, for 55 total new skills) This would keep the game fresh if new weapons were added every year or so.
• Adding entirely new Trait lines that add 13 new traits, and affect different stats..
  • Reduced Conditon Duration for example.
  • Celestial growth for another example (1 trait point adds 10 of every major stat instead of 50 points to one stat)
  • Stat tradeoffs for a third example (A Traitline that gives you double the normal toughness per point, but you lose half as much Vitality as a result)
• There are other obvious choices, like a new race, new class, etc.

Just wanted to throw my thoughts out there. Most of the new features aren’t really that big or game changing (But, Megaservers definitely are).

Nevets Crimsonwing.5271:

Vayne.8563:

They couldn’t have released Guild Wars 1 without NCsoft. What’s your point. This game is already more successful than Guild Wars 1 was…the only question is how long that success will last.

And you know, Guild Wars 1 came out at a time with far less competition. It was the only free to play multiplayer fantasy game out there. There weren’t 50 free MMOs to choose from at the same time…and Guild Wars 2 is still making more money than Guild Wars 1 did.

So I’m not sure what your point is.

My point is that many people, myself included, trusted ArenaNet because they had established themselves in the market as being something different. GW1 was a CORPG that focused on interplayer cooperation and instanced content, and despite being a virtually unknown company before GW1 was released, they still managed to grab a nice market share and compete with WoW, especially with their innovative B2P model.

They established a wonderful, trusting relationship with a lot of consumers, and they made a name for themselves.

Thus, when GW2 came around the company had a strong foundation and a wider audience to whom they could advertise their game.

It’s a lot easier to profit when you aren’t starting from scratch.

Look, GW2 was different than the original, and that’s fine. It still was an incredible game at launch and in many ways improved from the original. For many people (note, I’m not speaking for everyone, I’m not speaking for you) the past two years saw larger and larger deviations not only from the original game, but from the GW2 manifesto as well.

With no expansion in sight, a focus on living story and simple QOL changes, the game feels like it’s moving at too slow a pace and is disappointing for many people (note, I’m not speaking for everyone, I’m not speaking for you.)

And you’re making a fair point.

This game was always going to have problems because Guild Wars 1 was almost a cult classic. It has a relatively small very die hard community, particularly the PvP community. Arguably, the PvP community would be the most disenfranchised with this game.

But Anet also saw in Guild Wars 1 a huge shift from PvP to PvE. Their PvE population eventually outnumbered the PvP population and so in the later years that’s where Anet put their effort.

I wasn’t a PvPer in Guild Wars 1. I do some PvP and WvW here, but mostly I’m a PvE’er. Not a dungeon runner. Someone who likes PvE in the open world. There are a bunch of us. No game has done it better as far as I’m concerned.

The fact that a relatively hard core group of players find a game that’s quite different to be unacceptable doesn’t surprise me at all. However, I still think Guild Wars 2 will ultimately be more successful, not less successful, even if some Guild Wars 1 players feel disenfranchised…I understand why they do, and I don’t blame them for feeling that way.

Tachenon.5270:

Well, personally, I feel like this game is on the endangered species list, where I do not want it to be, I hasten to add, and I feel a big part of the reason is anet’s almost pathological dedication to giving us more Living Story instead of, oh, I don’t know, an expansion. Evidence? It’s all over the forums.

As my little voice put it, just the other day, “Oh, look, anet cares again.” Which was followed by a pitch perfect rendition of Fluttershy’s trademark ‘yay.’

Red names chatting up a storm! Almost as though someone higher up on the food chain noticed that the grumpiness in regard to GW2 was threatening to spread beyond the purview of the official forums (where it can be readily contained and con*trolled*), which caused this higher up someone to scowl meaningfully at those farther down. Or maybe it was just gas. We can surely thank SAB for this, and/or that ill-fated interview. Whatever it was, it seems to have lit a fire under some dev-ine bottoms, and now our beloved devs are back to singing for their supper. Or at least putting on a show of it. More CDIs! Yay.

In the midst of all this hubbub, I am uncomfortably reminded of Cryptic’s last days with City of Heroes, before they sold out to NCSoft. It seemed like pretty much everything the players wanted was something the Cryptic devs said would take too much time and effort to do. My go to example: like being able to change the colors of powers. Can my fire blaster has green flames, huh, huh? “No, the colors are baked-in!” When Cryptic was gone, big things started happening. Including – ermahgerd – green flames. Then, irony of ironies, after saving Paragon City, NCSoft turned heel and nuked it. All gone.

But that could never happen here. Could it.

Living Story is a drop in ye olde bucket, and more and more of us out here in the megasuffered wastelands are dying of thirst. Except, of course, for a certain contingent here on the forums who seem to derive some unholy sustenance from poking and prodding at those who dare to complain or ask for more. Wherever there’s a right to be wronged, that’s where you will find them. Wronging rights, right and left.

Yay.

My god, I wish I had your flair for wit and narrative.

Well done.

Vayne.8563:

Nevets Crimsonwing.5271:

Vayne.8563:

They couldn’t have released Guild Wars 1 without NCsoft. What’s your point. This game is already more successful than Guild Wars 1 was…the only question is how long that success will last.

And you know, Guild Wars 1 came out at a time with far less competition. It was the only free to play multiplayer fantasy game out there. There weren’t 50 free MMOs to choose from at the same time…and Guild Wars 2 is still making more money than Guild Wars 1 did.

So I’m not sure what your point is.

My point is that many people, myself included, trusted ArenaNet because they had established themselves in the market as being something different. GW1 was a CORPG that focused on interplayer cooperation and instanced content, and despite being a virtually unknown company before GW1 was released, they still managed to grab a nice market share and compete with WoW, especially with their innovative B2P model.

They established a wonderful, trusting relationship with a lot of consumers, and they made a name for themselves.

Thus, when GW2 came around the company had a strong foundation and a wider audience to whom they could advertise their game.

It’s a lot easier to profit when you aren’t starting from scratch.

Look, GW2 was different than the original, and that’s fine. It still was an incredible game at launch and in many ways improved from the original. For many people (note, I’m not speaking for everyone, I’m not speaking for you) the past two years saw larger and larger deviations not only from the original game, but from the GW2 manifesto as well.

With no expansion in sight, a focus on living story and simple QOL changes, the game feels like it’s moving at too slow a pace and is disappointing for many people (note, I’m not speaking for everyone, I’m not speaking for you.)

And you’re making a fair point.

This game was always going to have problems because Guild Wars 1 was almost a cult classic. It has a relatively small very die hard community, particularly the PvP community. Arguably, the PvP community would be the most disenfranchised with this game.

But Anet also saw in Guild Wars 1 a huge shift from PvP to PvE. Their PvE population eventually outnumbered the PvP population and so in the later years that’s where Anet put their effort.

I wasn’t a PvPer in Guild Wars 1. I do some PvP and WvW here, but mostly I’m a PvE’er. Not a dungeon runner. Someone who likes PvE in the open world. There are a bunch of us. No game has done it better as far as I’m concerned.

The fact that a relatively hard core group of players find a game that’s quite different to be unacceptable doesn’t surprise me at all. However, I still think Guild Wars 2 will ultimately be more successful, not less successful, even if some Guild Wars 1 players feel disenfranchised…I understand why they do, and I don’t blame them for feeling that way.

I appreciate that we can talk civilly among the clatter of others arguing.

I wasn’t a PvPer in GW1 either, except I did enjoy the different alliance battles and other less balanced content that GW1 incorporated. I was mainly a PvEr, like you, except I enjoy dungeons more.

I wonder what you thought of GW1 PvE? Everything was instanced, and although that led to either a party of heroes or forming a group of friends, do you think that dependency on other players built stronger or weaker relationships overall?

How do you feel about the pace of open world PvE being expanded in GW2? Surely you’ll admit that while the living story is a new content delivery mode, that whole maps were created much faster in the original. Wouldn’t that be an element that would appeal to your play style? Obviously we just got dry top, and we had other maps added like the zephyrite (sp?) ship map, but by this time in GW1 we had multiple new continents being released.

ipan.4356:

LS is pretty good – I enjoyed some parts of it, but not all. Perhaps my biggest disappointment with LS was that many of the events ended up being dominated by the zerg once again, but that’s a hard thing to deal with. When something like LS events happen, lots of people show up for them. I don’t really fault Anet for that, because no one has figured that one out yet.

But, it bothers me that people treat the LS as if it’s a substitute for the real meat of ‘new content’ – it’s not.

As a couple people have pointed out – LS is NOT new maps (well, there was Dry Top…but it’s so tiny), it’s not a new class, it’s not new dungeons, or a new playable race.

In short, it’s not an expansion.

And that is the meat of the issue – no expansion.

I got no beef with the LS itself really – but I do with people who try to pull the wool over my eyes and convince me that LS is an acceptable replacement for ‘expansion’ grade material.

It’s not.

I agree with you 100 %. People keep saying …" expansion – like". For me it’s Not.

The fact is, even Anet said " Expansion-like." and for me that makes Anet the main proponent that " LS is Like an expansion." for me, it’s not. I might enjoy LS, if Anetwould stop trying to push it as some replacement of expansions.

It may be a great tasting Buttered cracker. I might even enjoy it as a buttered cracker, if the butler stopped telling me it’s dinner.

A few things I got from the OP.

1st, he didn’t see the announcement that the precursor hunt got back burnered.

2nd, he doesn’t understand that rewards from dungeons/events can be inflationary unless sinks are also part of the equation.

3rd, prices on the TP are based on supply and demand. Yes ANet can control the sources of supply and can influence demand by making an item that needs X material to craft but that’s it.

Basically his primary complaint is his inability to make lots of gold quickly due to all the restrictions put in place to keep the injection of new gold and items under control.

@Nevets Crimsonwing.5271

A pretty reasonable when talking to people who treat me reasonably. lol

First of all I enjoyed PvE in Guild Wars 1, but it was flawed in some ways because of heroes. Eventually heroes became so powerful, the builds were so good, I didn’t even need to be there most of the time for my heroes to succeed.

As for the speed of creation, well sure. It’s far far easier to design a zone in an instanced game, particularly a zone that’s pathed. Pathing means people get to see and do less. The zone looks as big, but the area you can travel in it is very small. Put a log on the path and you have to turn around. This was one of the big drawbacks of Guild Wars 1 for me, the inability to explore.

Now, making quests is a whole lot easier than making dynamic events. Let’s take a simple look. Here’s a list of the number of quests that were in each Guild Wars title. I’m taking this from the Guild Wars 1 wiki btw, under each game.

Prophecies – 205 quests
Factions – 200 plus quests
Nightfall – 250 plus quests
EotN -124 quests

Now keep in mind that many of these quests included very fast beginners quests. Stuff like the bees in pre-searing ascalon.

The grand total of quests in all of Guild Wars 1 was about 800ish. Guild Wars 2 launched with over 1500 dynamic events.

That’s a huge difference in just the initial release.

Before this game started, I actually played and finished all four Guild Wars 1 titles in a week (admittedly skipping part of Prophecies to do that). The point is, we remember this huge amount of content, but we’re looking at it from a very far distance away.

Add the missions together and you have 25 from Prophecies, 13 from Factions and 20 from Nightfall. There were no missions in EotN they were all considered quests. That means that all three games together had about as much content mission wise as maybe a single personal story, plus a bit. But there are many different personal story paths.

There were 16 dungeons in EotN and no dungeons prior to that, but if you want to count the elite areas, you can. There are still more dungeon paths in Guild Wars 2.

Yes the games were faster to make. Because you can balance everything against 8 people and be done with it. And the balance wasn’t good because it was mostly trivial anyway in the end. A couple of 600 monks could do everything.

It takes longer to make MMO content, longer to make dynamic events, longer to work on more ambitious projects. I’m not sure that should surprise anyone.

But also Guild Wars 2 launched way too early and the first year was playing catch up. The second year was launching China.

I suspect things will start to pick up now.

Nevets Crimsonwing.5271:

~butts~

I just wanna thank you for using ‘trust’ and not ‘faith’ or ‘hope’.

TheCheater.5190:

How are we supposed to gather the gold needed to afford our legendaries, to improve our stats with ascended crafting or even for vanity due the raising gold to gems conversion?

We can’t do fast dungeons multiple times every day due the DR cutting drops every time.
We can’t farm because every time we find a farming spot you nerf it (like blix) and if you don’t nerf directly the farm usually you nerf the drop rate of everything valuable.
We can’t craft and sell things because everyone can craft everything so, excluding temporany spikes due new items, there are almost no profit.

the opening post is concerning me quite a bit today as the only item i see much value in the game right now is listed around 4kgold on the trading post and i am currently locked out of the game for manually grinding open world content.

i do the world boss train each day and will admit that i don’t always do the pre events but more often than not will run my commander tag along the pre events so new players can learn.. rather than just afk-ing my commander tag in the end boss area.. i don’t even stand on the supply crate at golem because it’s a ridiculous exploit.. i even tried teaching a non-exploit route for one of the starter dungeons, again to help new players learn, but the majority of the time it was people griefing the group or in my humble opinion someone who wasn’t ready for doing dungeons.. i ultimately felt it was more trouble on me than it was worth.. i don’t do dungeons much anymore because there is so much of this ‘exploit or get out’ anymore..

i’m the first to complain, sometimes subjectively, but i praise too.. i commended arena net for this years living world content.. the profession balance of this game concerns me.. i can’t go into that sort of forum without someone yelling at me that 2 + 2 isn’t 4 and typically my increasingly bad mood gets my posts infracted..

i feel like a hurt animal who growls when they are upset and is ultimately punished for not falling in line.. so if Any aspect of this game or its community Can improve, please make sure it Does improve.. because, maybe this is just me, i have a dwindling faith in humanity.. ..and quaggans

Dusty Moon.4382:

Nerelith.7360:

Dusty Moon.4382:

sishbob.3987:

Boneheart.3561:

sishbob.3987:

… the Living Story, which is something that the majority of players do not want.

[CITATION NEEDED]

Lemme correct that then. LS is something that a majority of players do not want over content that actually matters and changes the game.

The LS IS changing the game. That is the point – damaged LA, broken WP, Pale Tree maybe dying. Those are definite changes. How would a new chapter (like Prophecies to Factions in GW1) change things? All it would do is move players to a new area and the old area would stay the same.

How do you know the majority of players do not want the LS? Have you asked them or did you just assume because YOU don’t want it? Please state it properly, You don’t want the LS.

Factions gave us, a whole new continent to explore, New Mobs to face, new skills, old skills with a new feel… a new theme. New elites…. new professions.

I cannot say for most since I do not have a citation. But for many…. Living Story is not something even close to an expansion. For many players an expansion doesn’t Just give us new things to do…. it gives us new ways to play..even if we are playing Old things, in old locations, it expands the way we play those things. New professions, weapons, and skills give us new ways to experience Tyria. Living story is a new chapter with the same old characters to an old book. An expansion is a New Book, with new characters set in the old world.

There is a difference, and many, like me, may be tired of what seems to be something done.." on the cheap". LS is Not a substitute for a real expansion, LS may sate til the real expansion arrives. but…it’s buttered crackers… it’s what you serve BEFORE dinner to keep people from starving…. but it is not dinner.

We are not there yet. Cantha is closed off to the rest of the world because of the Elder Dragons. Kill all the Elder Dragons and you may be able to go to Cantha.

Also, that is one part, not the whole part. Again, ignoring the forest while focusing on one tree. There will be no faction fighting in this game because it is not designed for it. You want GW1 and it is still going on.

A.Net said from the beginning they do not want to do an Expansion if at all possible.

I think that this is a bad decision. They keep pushing Living Story, it seems " til they get it right".

I believe many players still see an expansion as they thing that reignites their like of this game. And for those players… giving them a Buttered cracker, and saying " that is dinner-like" is felt Like a cheap way out of not providing an expansion.

But only the future will tell if Living Story is done well enough to sate people’s desires for " expansion-like" content.

Vayne.8563:

@Nevets Crimsonwing.5271

A pretty reasonable when talking to people who treat me reasonably. lol

First of all I enjoyed PvE in Guild Wars 1, but it was flawed in some ways because of heroes. Eventually heroes became so powerful, the builds were so good, I didn’t even need to be there most of the time for my heroes to succeed.

As for the speed of creation, well sure. It’s far far easier to design a zone in an instanced game, particularly a zone that’s pathed. Pathing means people get to see and do less. The zone looks as big, but the area you can travel in it is very small. Put a log on the path and you have to turn around. This was one of the big drawbacks of Guild Wars 1 for me, the inability to explore.

Now, making quests is a whole lot easier than making dynamic events. Let’s take a simple look. Here’s a list of the number of quests that were in each Guild Wars title. I’m taking this from the Guild Wars 1 wiki btw, under each game.

Prophecies – 205 quests
Factions – 200 plus quests
Nightfall – 250 plus quests
EotN -124 quests

Now keep in mind that many of these quests included very fast beginners quests. Stuff like the bees in pre-searing ascalon.

The grand total of quests in all of Guild Wars 1 was about 800ish. Guild Wars 2 launched with over 1500 dynamic events.

That’s a huge difference in just the initial release.

Before this game started, I actually played and finished all four Guild Wars 1 titles in a week (admittedly skipping part of Prophecies to do that). The point is, we remember this huge amount of content, but we’re looking at it from a very far distance away.

Add the missions together and you have 25 from Prophecies, 13 from Factions and 20 from Nightfall. There were no missions in EotN they were all considered quests. That means that all three games together had about as much content mission wise as maybe a single personal story, plus a bit. But there are many different personal story paths.

There were 16 dungeons in EotN and no dungeons prior to that, but if you want to count the elite areas, you can. There are still more dungeon paths in Guild Wars 2.

Yes the games were faster to make. Because you can balance everything against 8 people and be done with it. And the balance wasn’t good because it was mostly trivial anyway in the end. A couple of 600 monks could do everything.

It takes longer to make MMO content, longer to make dynamic events, longer to work on more ambitious projects. I’m not sure that should surprise anyone.

But also Guild Wars 2 launched way too early and the first year was playing catch up. The second year was launching China.

I suspect things will start to pick up now.

Thanks for the numbers game. Perhaps this is hindsight bias, but consider a few things:

-Dynamic events in this game can be pretty shallow too, granted there are more of them.

-FOW, UW and other elite areas were far more diverse than perhaps the sum of all dungeons in this game.

-Perhaps the biggest point, is that the longevity of the game was also due to diversity of skills, which allowed players to use their creative energy for years after the initial release. It was hinted that new weapons and new skills were incoming, so maybe the developers have been working on that in the background. This alone would breathe new life into the game.

I guess I just would like to go back to the Crystal Desert, the Ring of Fire, Cantha, Elona, etc. without having to wait 8 years. I hope you’re right that things start picking up. When they do, I’ll start playing again.

Cheers.

Nevets Crimsonwing.5271:

Vayne.8563:

@Nevets Crimsonwing.5271

A pretty reasonable when talking to people who treat me reasonably. lol

First of all I enjoyed PvE in Guild Wars 1, but it was flawed in some ways because of heroes. Eventually heroes became so powerful, the builds were so good, I didn’t even need to be there most of the time for my heroes to succeed.

As for the speed of creation, well sure. It’s far far easier to design a zone in an instanced game, particularly a zone that’s pathed. Pathing means people get to see and do less. The zone looks as big, but the area you can travel in it is very small. Put a log on the path and you have to turn around. This was one of the big drawbacks of Guild Wars 1 for me, the inability to explore.

Now, making quests is a whole lot easier than making dynamic events. Let’s take a simple look. Here’s a list of the number of quests that were in each Guild Wars title. I’m taking this from the Guild Wars 1 wiki btw, under each game.

Prophecies – 205 quests
Factions – 200 plus quests
Nightfall – 250 plus quests
EotN -124 quests

Now keep in mind that many of these quests included very fast beginners quests. Stuff like the bees in pre-searing ascalon.

The grand total of quests in all of Guild Wars 1 was about 800ish. Guild Wars 2 launched with over 1500 dynamic events.

That’s a huge difference in just the initial release.

Before this game started, I actually played and finished all four Guild Wars 1 titles in a week (admittedly skipping part of Prophecies to do that). The point is, we remember this huge amount of content, but we’re looking at it from a very far distance away.

Add the missions together and you have 25 from Prophecies, 13 from Factions and 20 from Nightfall. There were no missions in EotN they were all considered quests. That means that all three games together had about as much content mission wise as maybe a single personal story, plus a bit. But there are many different personal story paths.

There were 16 dungeons in EotN and no dungeons prior to that, but if you want to count the elite areas, you can. There are still more dungeon paths in Guild Wars 2.

Yes the games were faster to make. Because you can balance everything against 8 people and be done with it. And the balance wasn’t good because it was mostly trivial anyway in the end. A couple of 600 monks could do everything.

It takes longer to make MMO content, longer to make dynamic events, longer to work on more ambitious projects. I’m not sure that should surprise anyone.

But also Guild Wars 2 launched way too early and the first year was playing catch up. The second year was launching China.

I suspect things will start to pick up now.

Thanks for the numbers game. Perhaps this is hindsight bias, but consider a few things:

-Dynamic events in this game can be pretty shallow too, granted there are more of them.

-FOW, UW and other elite areas were far more diverse than perhaps the sum of all dungeons in this game.

-Perhaps the biggest point, is that the longevity of the game was also due to diversity of skills, which allowed players to use their creative energy for years after the initial release. It was hinted that new weapons and new skills were incoming, so maybe the developers have been working on that in the background. This alone would breathe new life into the game.

I guess I just would like to go back to the Crystal Desert, the Ring of Fire, Cantha, Elona, etc. without having to wait 8 years. I hope you’re right that things start picking up. When they do, I’ll start playing again.

Cheers.

Do you know that the diversity of skills was both Guild Wars 1’s greatest strength and it’s biggest drawback. The reason it was never more than a niche game was because it was too complicated for most people. It’s sad to say, but it was true. It required thought process many don’t want to put in their game. They want to jump into the game and kill stuff.

Also the build diversity led to builds that were impossible to control. There’s nothing like permasin in Guild Wars 1.

Vayne.8563:

Nevets Crimsonwing.5271:

Vayne.8563:

@Nevets Crimsonwing.5271

A pretty reasonable when talking to people who treat me reasonably. lol

First of all I enjoyed PvE in Guild Wars 1, but it was flawed in some ways because of heroes. Eventually heroes became so powerful, the builds were so good, I didn’t even need to be there most of the time for my heroes to succeed.

As for the speed of creation, well sure. It’s far far easier to design a zone in an instanced game, particularly a zone that’s pathed. Pathing means people get to see and do less. The zone looks as big, but the area you can travel in it is very small. Put a log on the path and you have to turn around. This was one of the big drawbacks of Guild Wars 1 for me, the inability to explore.

Now, making quests is a whole lot easier than making dynamic events. Let’s take a simple look. Here’s a list of the number of quests that were in each Guild Wars title. I’m taking this from the Guild Wars 1 wiki btw, under each game.

Prophecies – 205 quests
Factions – 200 plus quests
Nightfall – 250 plus quests
EotN -124 quests

Now keep in mind that many of these quests included very fast beginners quests. Stuff like the bees in pre-searing ascalon.

The grand total of quests in all of Guild Wars 1 was about 800ish. Guild Wars 2 launched with over 1500 dynamic events.

That’s a huge difference in just the initial release.

Before this game started, I actually played and finished all four Guild Wars 1 titles in a week (admittedly skipping part of Prophecies to do that). The point is, we remember this huge amount of content, but we’re looking at it from a very far distance away.

Add the missions together and you have 25 from Prophecies, 13 from Factions and 20 from Nightfall. There were no missions in EotN they were all considered quests. That means that all three games together had about as much content mission wise as maybe a single personal story, plus a bit. But there are many different personal story paths.

There were 16 dungeons in EotN and no dungeons prior to that, but if you want to count the elite areas, you can. There are still more dungeon paths in Guild Wars 2.

Yes the games were faster to make. Because you can balance everything against 8 people and be done with it. And the balance wasn’t good because it was mostly trivial anyway in the end. A couple of 600 monks could do everything.

It takes longer to make MMO content, longer to make dynamic events, longer to work on more ambitious projects. I’m not sure that should surprise anyone.

But also Guild Wars 2 launched way too early and the first year was playing catch up. The second year was launching China.

I suspect things will start to pick up now.

Thanks for the numbers game. Perhaps this is hindsight bias, but consider a few things:

-Dynamic events in this game can be pretty shallow too, granted there are more of them.

-FOW, UW and other elite areas were far more diverse than perhaps the sum of all dungeons in this game.

-Perhaps the biggest point, is that the longevity of the game was also due to diversity of skills, which allowed players to use their creative energy for years after the initial release. It was hinted that new weapons and new skills were incoming, so maybe the developers have been working on that in the background. This alone would breathe new life into the game.

I guess I just would like to go back to the Crystal Desert, the Ring of Fire, Cantha, Elona, etc. without having to wait 8 years. I hope you’re right that things start picking up. When they do, I’ll start playing again.

Cheers.

Do you know that the diversity of skills was both Guild Wars 1’s greatest strength and it’s biggest drawback. The reason it was never more than a niche game was because it was too complicated for most people. It’s sad to say, but it was true. It required thought process many don’t want to put in their game. They want to jump into the game and kill stuff.

Also the build diversity led to builds that were impossible to control. There’s nothing like permasin in Guild Wars 1.

Haha that’s true. I remember ursanway and the 55hp monks and all the other gimmicky builds. But the constant flux of balance and changing of skills also keep people iterating, which was fun. This game seemed to solve that problem by having weapon sets that are easier to balance skill wise (so you don’t have a whole bar of skills to choose from.) I’d like to see some more choices to this end, so that we can find a balance between too complex and too simple.

Nevets Crimsonwing.5271:

Vayne.8563:

Nevets Crimsonwing.5271:

Vayne.8563:

@Nevets Crimsonwing.5271

A pretty reasonable when talking to people who treat me reasonably. lol

First of all I enjoyed PvE in Guild Wars 1, but it was flawed in some ways because of heroes. Eventually heroes became so powerful, the builds were so good, I didn’t even need to be there most of the time for my heroes to succeed.

As for the speed of creation, well sure. It’s far far easier to design a zone in an instanced game, particularly a zone that’s pathed. Pathing means people get to see and do less. The zone looks as big, but the area you can travel in it is very small. Put a log on the path and you have to turn around. This was one of the big drawbacks of Guild Wars 1 for me, the inability to explore.

Now, making quests is a whole lot easier than making dynamic events. Let’s take a simple look. Here’s a list of the number of quests that were in each Guild Wars title. I’m taking this from the Guild Wars 1 wiki btw, under each game.

Prophecies – 205 quests
Factions – 200 plus quests
Nightfall – 250 plus quests
EotN -124 quests

Now keep in mind that many of these quests included very fast beginners quests. Stuff like the bees in pre-searing ascalon.

The grand total of quests in all of Guild Wars 1 was about 800ish. Guild Wars 2 launched with over 1500 dynamic events.

That’s a huge difference in just the initial release.

Before this game started, I actually played and finished all four Guild Wars 1 titles in a week (admittedly skipping part of Prophecies to do that). The point is, we remember this huge amount of content, but we’re looking at it from a very far distance away.

Add the missions together and you have 25 from Prophecies, 13 from Factions and 20 from Nightfall. There were no missions in EotN they were all considered quests. That means that all three games together had about as much content mission wise as maybe a single personal story, plus a bit. But there are many different personal story paths.

There were 16 dungeons in EotN and no dungeons prior to that, but if you want to count the elite areas, you can. There are still more dungeon paths in Guild Wars 2.

Yes the games were faster to make. Because you can balance everything against 8 people and be done with it. And the balance wasn’t good because it was mostly trivial anyway in the end. A couple of 600 monks could do everything.

It takes longer to make MMO content, longer to make dynamic events, longer to work on more ambitious projects. I’m not sure that should surprise anyone.

But also Guild Wars 2 launched way too early and the first year was playing catch up. The second year was launching China.

I suspect things will start to pick up now.

Thanks for the numbers game. Perhaps this is hindsight bias, but consider a few things:

-Dynamic events in this game can be pretty shallow too, granted there are more of them.

-FOW, UW and other elite areas were far more diverse than perhaps the sum of all dungeons in this game.

-Perhaps the biggest point, is that the longevity of the game was also due to diversity of skills, which allowed players to use their creative energy for years after the initial release. It was hinted that new weapons and new skills were incoming, so maybe the developers have been working on that in the background. This alone would breathe new life into the game.

I guess I just would like to go back to the Crystal Desert, the Ring of Fire, Cantha, Elona, etc. without having to wait 8 years. I hope you’re right that things start picking up. When they do, I’ll start playing again.

Cheers.

Do you know that the diversity of skills was both Guild Wars 1’s greatest strength and it’s biggest drawback. The reason it was never more than a niche game was because it was too complicated for most people. It’s sad to say, but it was true. It required thought process many don’t want to put in their game. They want to jump into the game and kill stuff.

Also the build diversity led to builds that were impossible to control. There’s nothing like permasin in Guild Wars 1.

Haha that’s true. I remember ursanway and the 55hp monks and all the other gimmicky builds. But the constant flux of balance and changing of skills also keep people iterating, which was fun. This game seemed to solve that problem by having weapon sets that are easier to balance skill wise (so you don’t have a whole bar of skills to choose from.) I’d like to see some more choices to this end, so that we can find a balance between too complex and too simple.

Yes, we need more skills and traits. But Guild Wars 1, particularly with dual classing was impossible to balance altogether.