Guild Wars 2

They delivered on precursor crafting. Granted, it took a while, but i like how they implemented it.

That being said, i really don’t think that I personally need anymore legendaries for the time being, as I have ALOT to craft already. Enough to carry me to the next xpac, and possibly beyond, so if it take them a year to create and implement new ones, im cool with that.

As far as what they say and do, and their business practices: I’ve been able to cope with it by understanding that there really is two different teams working in this game. One is the “Dr. Jekyll Team” that consists of the artist, programmers, musicians, and the generally creative folks. The “Mr Hyde Team” is marking, management, and the business side of things.

We all like the “Dr. Jekyll Team”, and rarely do we have ever complain about what they are doing. On the other hand, the “Mr Hyde Team” is the living incarnation of an incompetent ‘satan’ sort of evil. I’d like to believe that out of the evil, at least 50% of sheer ignorance, and the other 50% is just poorly trained/experienced/educated management.

Fortunately (and the reason why we all still love to play), the Dr Jekyll Team is pretty downright amazing, even when being held back by the likes of the evil Mr Hyde Team.

lol good answer and good way to end a bad thread ^^

vesica tempestas.1563:

Dragon Masher.5749:

vesica tempestas.1563:

and what if that car company said, oh that new headlight we hoped to build will actually cost 50k more, and for that 50k we could give you the things that you are NOW asking for, a new eco friendly engine, etc etc. This is what opportunity cost is., this is what good development is. Bad development is saying – we promised you a heradlight – here it is, but unfortunately you cant get that new engine, we made you that headlight you really wanted 3 years ago! And so the company declines.

Your really missing the point arent you? If i payed for a feature, i want that feature.

that feature doesn’t exist, they made something else, and that something else he played. Get it?

But the feature does exist and we were only delivered 25% of it i want the remaining 75%, i really dont think its too much to ask since everybody who bought HoT paid into the new legendaries, regardless if they were going to craft them or not.

Pretty sure this is just a rehash, now, of: https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/Legendary-weapons-6

Look for your posts, soon, there.

Dragon Masher.5749:

vesica tempestas.1563:

Dragon Masher.5749:

vesica tempestas.1563:

and what if that car company said, oh that new headlight we hoped to build will actually cost 50k more, and for that 50k we could give you the things that you are NOW asking for, a new eco friendly engine, etc etc. This is what opportunity cost is., this is what good development is. Bad development is saying – we promised you a heradlight – here it is, but unfortunately you cant get that new engine, we made you that headlight you really wanted 3 years ago! And so the company declines.

Your really missing the point arent you? If i payed for a feature, i want that feature.

that feature doesn’t exist, they made something else, and that something else he played. Get it?

But the feature does exist and we were only delivered 25% of it i want the remaining 75%, i really dont think its too much to ask since everybody who bought HoT paid into the new legendaries, regardless if they were going to craft them or not.

now suddenly we are talking about volume of content.

Anet made a decision, they made B instead of A, we chose to either pay for that or not. If you say you like B (which OP did remember) then be a man and live by your own decisions. enjoying B and complaining that they didn’t make A? cmon this isn’t a playground, were not 4 years old.

vesica tempestas.1563:

and what if that car company said, oh that new headlight we hoped to build will actually cost 50k more, and for that 50k we could give you the things that you are NOW asking for, a new eco friendly engine, etc etc. This is what opportunity cost is., this is what good development is. Bad development is saying – we promised you a heradlight – here it is, but unfortunately you cant get that new engine, we made you that headlight you really wanted 3 years ago! And so the company declines.

Wow I was right. You really don’t get it do you.

You say they halted development of the new legendarys so they can give us other content, except we were always still going to get that other content regardless.

So basically we went from “new legendarys + new content” to just “new content.” That is not opportunity cost my friend.

But….you’ll probably say somethin like “they scrapped new legendarys so they can bring new content to us faster” in which I’ll respond by saying “that sorta business tactic is unprofessional and just leads to more people being upset with the company”

Have a great day.

Ive been a developer for over 30 years, i get it, you think decisions that you don’t like must be because people are incompetent/evil/dishonest/[insert negative here]. Its easy that way isn’kitten

lets turn it on its head, why do you think Anet decided not to make the legendaries?

vesica tempestas.1563:

Dragon Masher.5749:

vesica tempestas.1563:

Dragon Masher.5749:

vesica tempestas.1563:

and what if that car company said, oh that new headlight we hoped to build will actually cost 50k more, and for that 50k we could give you the things that you are NOW asking for, a new eco friendly engine, etc etc. This is what opportunity cost is., this is what good development is. Bad development is saying – we promised you a heradlight – here it is, but unfortunately you cant get that new engine, we made you that headlight you really wanted 3 years ago! And so the company declines.

Your really missing the point arent you? If i payed for a feature, i want that feature.

that feature doesn’t exist, they made something else, and that something else he played. Get it?

But the feature does exist and we were only delivered 25% of it i want the remaining 75%, i really dont think its too much to ask since everybody who bought HoT paid into the new legendaries, regardless if they were going to craft them or not.

now suddenly we are talking about volume of content.

Anet made a decision, they made B instead of A, we chose to either pay for that or not. If you say you like B (which OP did remember) then be a man and live by your own decisions. enjoying B and complaining that they didn’t make A? cmon this isn’t a playground, were not 4 years old.

Ok hold on there.

I pre order a 2017 iPhone advertised with features A, B and C. 2017 arrives, I get my iPhone except it’s without features A, B and C but with features X, Y and Z. Better yet, I preorder a PC but get a laptop instead because company wanted to make laptop instead of PC.

That is basically what you are saying here.

I’m saying they are using a form of agile development shall we say.

lets turn it on its head, why do you think Anet decided not to make the legendaries?

Dragon Masher.5749:

vesica tempestas.1563:

and what if that car company said, oh that new headlight we hoped to build will actually cost 50k more, and for that 50k we could give you the things that you are NOW asking for, a new eco friendly engine, etc etc. This is what opportunity cost is., this is what good development is. Bad development is saying – we promised you a heradlight – here it is, but unfortunately you cant get that new engine, we made you that headlight you really wanted 3 years ago! And so the company declines.

Your really missing the point arent you? If i payed for a feature, i want that feature.

But the thing is, companies can’t develop things based on the wants of one person. They have to develop based on multiple people.

If the data shows that way more people want eco-friendly engines than super good headlights, then it would be a bad decision to continue with the super good headlights.

It’s disappointing that the new legendary weapons are on an indefinite hiatus. I wanted to see what the new scepter looked like before completely committing to Meteorlogicus. As they are more prestigious than the core legendaries due to the fact that they can’t be bought off of the TP.

But more players were wanting new content to play. Legendary weapons are items that only a minority want. So they decided that it would be a better investment to work on Living World. And they are likely correct in that decision. Maybe if there had not been the content drought before HoT, ANet could have gotten away with a longer content drought after HoT launched to work on the HoT legendaries.

ye that’s what the other guy was referring to hours ago with opportunity cost – he doesn’t understand the concept though and is unwilling to learn.

Shovel Face.4512:

vesica tempestas.1563:

if a developer carried on with tunnel vision and only ever built what they discussed at some point in the past then their ability to react to present customer needs would be nil. Strangely the people that complain still play the very same product they have played for the last 3 years including the content that was made instead of those 3 year old legendaries that were discussed. Still for some it seems a good excuse to declare they will no longer support the game in the future (why?) and yet they will still play it which means actually they still enjoy same content. The modern take take take never be happy with what you have people are delightful.

Are you being contrary just for the heck of it? I don’t seem to quite understand what your point is with this post. If you’re saying that “it’s ok for a company to go back on its statements, not deliver to what customers paid for and we should just settle” then it’s people like you I dislike the most.

Of course, if people read the statement, such as the part where it said this was all subject to change, because we iterate, that would certainly make it easier for Anet to say things.

Why quote the part of the article you wanted to quote, and ignore the part of the article that got changed? Seems to me that saying we’re going to do this but it may change isn’t a promise and not doing something they say may change doesn’t make them liars.

People use hyperbole to make the company look bad. There are things Anet have done that were definitely mistakes. But saying someone is lying without quoting the whole article is at the very least misleading.

Shovel Face.4512:

And where are you getting this idea of entitlement? I’m beginning to think you’re just being contrary or a troll. I pay for content, I expect said content. Company tells me to expect something, I expect. Nothing about that screams entitlement to me.

OOPSIES … someone doesn’t understand what they pay for.

go ahead and look up “EULA” as well. As usual, there are quite a few things players don’t understand that lead them to bad conclusions.

Some might view this as a technicality, but you don’t pay for content, you pay for access to experience the game. Maybe you aren’t aware but you don’t even ‘own’ your account; it’s Anet’s property.

Colin did say, in a PAX interview, that the precursor crafting aspect of legendaries would be added in 2013 as an absolute. No caveats, no disclaimers. Absolute, without exception.

But plans do change.
Understood.

I still consider it to be unethical to advertise something as part of an expansion in order to generate sales and then cancel that element after receiving payment.

Ashen.2907:

Colin did say, in a PAX interview, that the precursor crafting aspect of legendaries would be added in 2013 as an absolute. No caveats, no disclaimers. Absolute, without exception.

But plans do change.
Understood.

I still consider it to be unethical to advertise something as part of an expansion in order to generate sales and then cancel that element after receiving payment.

Unethical if it’s intended. Not unethical of unforseen circumstances arise. In my opinion of course.

Vayne.8563:

Ashen.2907:

Colin did say, in a PAX interview, that the precursor crafting aspect of legendaries would be added in 2013 as an absolute. No caveats, no disclaimers. Absolute, without exception.

But plans do change.
Understood.

I still consider it to be unethical to advertise something as part of an expansion in order to generate sales and then cancel that element after receiving payment.

Unethical if it’s intended. Not unethical of unforseen circumstances arise. In my opinion of course.

Understood.

Still it was a conscious, “intended,” decision to pull the six man legendary team. It was an intended decision to tie any refunds of HoT to a sacrifice of one’s core game access (has this stance changed?). It even appeared to be an intended decision to continue advertising legendaries after the decision to not deliver them.

Vayne.8563:

Ashen.2907:

Colin did say, in a PAX interview, that the precursor crafting aspect of legendaries would be added in 2013 as an absolute. No caveats, no disclaimers. Absolute, without exception.

But plans do change.
Understood.

I still consider it to be unethical to advertise something as part of an expansion in order to generate sales and then cancel that element after receiving payment.

Unethical if it’s intended. Not unethical of unforseen circumstances arise. In my opinion of course.

They were working on it before expansion went live, how the hell dont they see after lets say 10 of them its to much work and pull it off expansion features.

But no they make 22 of them launch expansion then after 7 months 1 more.
People who dident buy from them have no chance in hell to get a refund by that time.

So you mean they were working on the old19 for 1-3 month time and the 3 new ones 21 months almost 2 years so close to the time hot was developed in.

Im still waiting for a second generation legendary gs. This is why I bought Hot. Because of the pay2win (you aint zjid without elite specialisation traitline) And I like new shiney weapons. Now people are talking about a second expansion. This is were I lost hope

vesica tempestas.1563:

Dragon Masher.5749:

vesica tempestas.1563:

Dragon Masher.5749:

vesica tempestas.1563:

and what if that car company said, oh that new headlight we hoped to build will actually cost 50k more, and for that 50k we could give you the things that you are NOW asking for, a new eco friendly engine, etc etc. This is what opportunity cost is., this is what good development is. Bad development is saying – we promised you a heradlight – here it is, but unfortunately you cant get that new engine, we made you that headlight you really wanted 3 years ago! And so the company declines.

Your really missing the point arent you? If i payed for a feature, i want that feature.

that feature doesn’t exist, they made something else, and that something else he played. Get it?

But the feature does exist and we were only delivered 25% of it i want the remaining 75%, i really dont think its too much to ask since everybody who bought HoT paid into the new legendaries, regardless if they were going to craft them or not.

now suddenly we are talking about volume of content.

Anet made a decision, they made B instead of A, we chose to either pay for that or not. If you say you like B (which OP did remember) then be a man and live by your own decisions. enjoying B and complaining that they didn’t make A? cmon this isn’t a playground, were not 4 years old.

Yes they had to bring volume in since your insisting the feature dont exsist at all it do just not completed. Its like the raid would end after first boss, sorry it will come sometime in the future maybe.

Quite sure raid wouldent have been a smashing success if that happen and so legendary weapons wasent a success either since the 4 that did launch might not have been the ones people were waiting on.

How many classes use pistol? aint it thief, engi and mesmer only 33% of the classes.
Short bow 2 of 9 close to 20%
Staff sure thats 7/9 so 85% so thats the one who should show if people want to craft legendarys or not Imo.
Lastly 1h axe 4 so almost 50% of those maybe 2 use them regularly ranger and revenant. Necomancers seem to go for daggers or scepter if they want 1h main handers and warriors go for greatsword or sword main hand usualy.

Ashen.2907:

Vayne.8563:

Ashen.2907:

Colin did say, in a PAX interview, that the precursor crafting aspect of legendaries would be added in 2013 as an absolute. No caveats, no disclaimers. Absolute, without exception.

But plans do change.
Understood.

I still consider it to be unethical to advertise something as part of an expansion in order to generate sales and then cancel that element after receiving payment.

Unethical if it’s intended. Not unethical of unforseen circumstances arise. In my opinion of course.

Understood.

Still it was a conscious, “intended,” decision to pull the six man legendary team. It was an intended decision to tie any refunds of HoT to a sacrifice of one’s core game access (has this stance changed?). It even appeared to be an intended decision to continue advertising legendaries after the decision to not deliver them.

Where are they advertising a full set of legendaries? They said there would be new legendaries in HoT and there are. They mentioned the new set of legendaries before launch, but not since as far as I know.

Yes they made a decision to do something better for the game. You may not like the decision but I’m sure it wasn’t taken lightly. They know their situation better than we do.

long and short of it is, you cant trust anet to deliver on what they say. this means when trying to figure out if the product is worth it to you, go primarly on what you ve seen in the past, and on the present.
nothing they say regarding future plans really means much

phys.7689:

long and short of it is, you cant trust anet to deliver on what they say. this means when trying to figure out if the product is worth it to you, go primarly on what you ve seen in the past, and on the present.
nothing they say regarding future plans really means much

The long and short of it is, Anet has promised hundreds of things and didn’t deliver on a small handful. You should judge everyone you know that way.

It’s a matter of focus.

They also delivered a bunch of stuff I didn’t know about that I really liked.

I’d say, over all, they delivered more than I was expecting, not less.

Vayne.8563:

Where are they advertising a full set of legendaries? They said there would be new legendaries in HoT and there are. They mentioned the new set of legendaries before launch, but not since as far as I know.

Yes they made a decision to do something better for the game. You may not like the decision but I’m sure it wasn’t taken lightly. They know their situation better than we do.

Honestly don’t want to dispute this with you and seeing as how long you’ve been around here, both GW and the forums, I’m surprised you sit there and claim they never did that.

Legendary weapons were a pretty big selling point for a good chunk of people. Anet promised a full set… in 2013, decided to “scrap” that system (if they even ever started it) and then pushed them back. Come HoT announcement they state that the full new set would be released. They posted presale online and allowed people to fully purchase HoT beforehand while listing a bunch of the content, one of those being a full set of you guessed it – legendaries.

The closer it got to HoT the more their stance on legendaries began to change. Aka…just 16 then small batches then just 3 then just 1 more and indefinitely postponed.

So yes, they did promise a full set and no they didn’t deliver. Due to all the backlash they started changing everything that mentioned a full-set but people have those screenshots and I’m sure you can dredge it up somewhere.

You can believe whatever you want but that doesn’t change the fact that this did occur.

Vayne.8563:

phys.7689:

long and short of it is, you cant trust anet to deliver on what they say. this means when trying to figure out if the product is worth it to you, go primarly on what you ve seen in the past, and on the present.
nothing they say regarding future plans really means much

The long and short of it is, Anet has promised hundreds of things and didn’t deliver on a small handful. You should judge everyone you know that way.

It’s a matter of focus.

They also delivered a bunch of stuff I didn’t know about that I really liked.

I’d say, over all, they delivered more than I was expecting, not less.

they were late with tons of things, under delivered on many, and changed their minds on many things.
im not saying they had no reasons, but as far as developers go, they are not top of the list on intentions and what they deliver.

basically, if anet says this is what to expect, take it with a grain of salt. even if they deliver on 80% of what they say, there is still a substantial chance that it may not come to pass. this doesnt mean they should say nothing, just that you got to realize who you are dealing with.

following through on ideas, or schedules is not high on anets priority, their priority is doing whatever they feel is most important in that moment.

there are some people who will show up to a concert in the rain because they said they would, there are others who will cancel because they think concerts in the rain suck for all involved.

like you said, you start to know what to expect when you deal with people after a time, you know who is the former and who is the latter.

Wow, you could almost come to the conclusion that Anet is your average game development group; nothing here is differentiating them from any other game dev. How terrible ><

It’s a non-issue. Legendary development was cut because it affected the least number of players (most players don’t even have a single Legendary, let alone are waiting for new ones) and difficult decisions had to be made.

There was a change in management, and the one who “promised” these things no longer has any influence on the game. We, as customers, are not given access to the long-term plans of the management, nor the changes in budget and data collected, etc. Of course customer feedback is considered when making these decisions, but ultimately the decisions that are made are not made by the customers. We don’t give orders to management.

Everyone is free to make their own decision whether to support the game when it changes direction. But no matter how much you yell and stomp your feet, the devs are not going to take orders from you.

Obtena.7952:

Wow, you could almost come to the conclusion that Anet is your average game development group; nothing here is differentiating them from any other game dev. How terrible ><

this is not my experience with other developers. most that i remember tend to follow through with publicized plans. also most developers wont stray far from their initial game plans. love it or hate it, anet doesnt believe that staying the course is valuable. they prefer to be open to redesign.

it has its strengths and weakness, knowing what the future holds for the game is not one of them.

many other games are very predictable, and deliver on what they promote.

tolunart.2095:

It’s a non-issue. Legendary development was cut because it affected the least number of players (most players don’t even have a single Legendary, let alone are waiting for new ones) and difficult decisions had to be made.

There was a change in management, and the one who “promised” these things no longer has any influence on the game. We, as customers, are not given access to the long-term plans of the management, nor the changes in budget and data collected, etc. Of course customer feedback is considered when making these decisions, but ultimately the decisions that are made are not made by the customers. We don’t give orders to management.

Everyone is free to make their own decision whether to support the game when it changes direction. But no matter how much you yell and stomp your feet, the devs are not going to take orders from you.

Oh really you think Colin Johanson promised legendarys without talking to the big man Mike… I want what ever your smoking man.

Roquen.5406:

Vayne.8563:

Where are they advertising a full set of legendaries? They said there would be new legendaries in HoT and there are. They mentioned the new set of legendaries before launch, but not since as far as I know.

Yes they made a decision to do something better for the game. You may not like the decision but I’m sure it wasn’t taken lightly. They know their situation better than we do.

Honestly don’t want to dispute this with you and seeing as how long you’ve been around here, both GW and the forums, I’m surprised you sit there and claim they never did that.

Legendary weapons were a pretty big selling point for a good chunk of people. Anet promised a full set… in 2013, decided to “scrap” that system (if they even ever started it) and then pushed them back. Come HoT announcement they state that the full new set would be released. They posted presale online and allowed people to fully purchase HoT beforehand while listing a bunch of the content, one of those being a full set of you guessed it – legendaries.

The closer it got to HoT the more their stance on legendaries began to change. Aka…just 16 then small batches then just 3 then just 1 more and indefinitely postponed.

So yes, they did promise a full set and no they didn’t deliver. Due to all the backlash they started changing everything that mentioned a full-set but people have those screenshots and I’m sure you can dredge it up somewhere.

You can believe whatever you want but that doesn’t change the fact that this did occur.

Bit of revisionist history and some assumptions in there. Anet was going to release stuff with the living story when it wrote that article. The playerbase insisted on an expansion. And yes, insisted is the right word. The outcry for the expansion was very loud.

If Anet didn’t take what they were developing for the LS and put it in the expansion at that point, the expansion would have taken a lot longer to produce.

They wrote an article saying things might change and they did change. If people choose to ignore the disclaimer, that’s their own lookout.

phys.7689:

Vayne.8563:

phys.7689:

long and short of it is, you cant trust anet to deliver on what they say. this means when trying to figure out if the product is worth it to you, go primarly on what you ve seen in the past, and on the present.
nothing they say regarding future plans really means much

The long and short of it is, Anet has promised hundreds of things and didn’t deliver on a small handful. You should judge everyone you know that way.

It’s a matter of focus.

They also delivered a bunch of stuff I didn’t know about that I really liked.

I’d say, over all, they delivered more than I was expecting, not less.

they were late with tons of things, under delivered on many, and changed their minds on many things.
im not saying they had no reasons, but as far as developers go, they are not top of the list on intentions and what they deliver.

basically, if anet says this is what to expect, take it with a grain of salt. even if they deliver on 80% of what they say, there is still a substantial chance that it may not come to pass. this doesnt mean they should say nothing, just that you got to realize who you are dealing with.

following through on ideas, or schedules is not high on anets priority, their priority is doing whatever they feel is most important in that moment.

there are some people who will show up to a concert in the rain because they said they would, there are others who will cancel because they think concerts in the rain suck for all involved.

like you said, you start to know what to expect when you deal with people after a time, you know who is the former and who is the latter.

Except that the percentage is probably closer to 95% not 80%. If you list everything Anet has EVER said, and you take away what they haven’t delivered it’s a very low percentage.

Vayne.8563:

phys.7689:

Vayne.8563:

phys.7689:

long and short of it is, you cant trust anet to deliver on what they say. this means when trying to figure out if the product is worth it to you, go primarly on what you ve seen in the past, and on the present.
nothing they say regarding future plans really means much

The long and short of it is, Anet has promised hundreds of things and didn’t deliver on a small handful. You should judge everyone you know that way.

It’s a matter of focus.

They also delivered a bunch of stuff I didn’t know about that I really liked.

I’d say, over all, they delivered more than I was expecting, not less.

they were late with tons of things, under delivered on many, and changed their minds on many things.
im not saying they had no reasons, but as far as developers go, they are not top of the list on intentions and what they deliver.

basically, if anet says this is what to expect, take it with a grain of salt. even if they deliver on 80% of what they say, there is still a substantial chance that it may not come to pass. this doesnt mean they should say nothing, just that you got to realize who you are dealing with.

following through on ideas, or schedules is not high on anets priority, their priority is doing whatever they feel is most important in that moment.

there are some people who will show up to a concert in the rain because they said they would, there are others who will cancel because they think concerts in the rain suck for all involved.

like you said, you start to know what to expect when you deal with people after a time, you know who is the former and who is the latter.

Except that the percentage is probably closer to 95% not 80%. If you list everything Anet has EVER said, and you take away what they haven’t delivered it’s a very low percentage.

its actually noticeably larger if you combine
undelivered/changed/exagerrated, which is what most people consider when they weigh someones trustworthyness.

Arenanet have brought you in HOT :

New mechanics
Mastery system
Stronghold Pvp
New maps with vertical exploration
Gliders a new way to explore
New Skills , specializations , pets and class (throw able hammers ?! and Fighting Staves?)
New class
New monsters to fight and Races to learn about such as : Itzel , Nuhoch and the Exalted
New story (arguably not the best point)
Alot of new ascended weapons through achievements that fit the Elite specializations
New pets for rangers
Raids
New achievement points challenges like mini arcade games
Challenging events and hero points
New bosses to fight
Guild Halls (still need to be worked )

oh they did not bring Legendary weapons as they promised T_T waaaaahhhh wahhhh

if you bought HOT only for legendary weapons than yea.. i guess you can say “i got Fooled!”

For the record, this is what was advertised and what people paid for when they bought the HoT expansion. In the advertisement it was explicitly said that small groups would be released at regular intervals. This was an advertised and paid for feature of the expansion that was not delivered to its purchasers according to the terms of the implied contract of the advertisement due to being “indefinitely suspended.”

“Guild Wars 2: Heart of Thorns heralds the beginning of the first new set of legendary weapons to be added to the game since its original set of twenty included in the launch of Guild Wars 2. The first three we’ll release are a celestially themed axe called Astralaria, an experimental energy themed pistol called H.O.P.E., and a raven spirit themed staff called Nevermore. It takes a lot of work to craft these legendary journeys for release, so rather than take the time to develop the full set before releasing any of them, we will be releasing new legendary weapons in small groups at regular intervals until the full set of sixteen has been added to the game."

Now, you may not care about Legendaries and you may not care that you bought something that the company has not delivered and has not given a timetable for restarting after “indefinitely suspending.” However I feel you should at least respect those who do care about what they paid for and were expecting to get the Legendaries that were advertised and they paid for, and see why they feel that ANet went back on their word.

As much as I dislike the turn this thread took, let me ask this: What do you want ANet to do? ‘Indefinitely suspended’ means it’s suspended until the authority over it decides otherwise.

That doesn’t mean forever. It mean it’s suspended until another criteria is met and fulfilled. Given the recent numbers on another thread, it was absolutely prudent that ANet did what it did until Living World and the upcoming expansion is out sooner than later.

The game is not in a good place now. The content drought proved this out. To complain about legendaries, even with all the opinions provided, is like complaining about not getting a nice table when you’re starving to death.

Can we please at least be rational?

Just a flesh wound.3589:

For the record, this is what was advertised and what people paid for when they bought the HoT expansion. In the advertisement it was explicitly said that small groups would be released at regular intervals. This was an advertised and paid for feature of the expansion that was not delivered to its purchasers according to the terms of the implied contract of the advertisement due to being “indefinitely suspended.”

“Guild Wars 2: Heart of Thorns heralds the beginning of the first new set of legendary weapons to be added to the game since its original set of twenty included in the launch of Guild Wars 2. The first three we’ll release are a celestially themed axe called Astralaria, an experimental energy themed pistol called H.O.P.E., and a raven spirit themed staff called Nevermore. It takes a lot of work to craft these legendary journeys for release, so rather than take the time to develop the full set before releasing any of them, we will be releasing new legendary weapons in small groups at regular intervals until the full set of sixteen has been added to the game."

Now, you may not care about Legendaries and you may not care that you bought something that the company has not delivered and has not given a timetable for restarting after “indefinitely suspending.” However I feel you should at least respect those who do care about what they paid for and see why they feel that ANet went back on their word.

Yes i understand players concern about it
but the truth is you are right I dont care
I rather have them focus on mechanics , improving classes , new events , stories , enemies , World bosses , Dungeons , fractals and Gameplay in general

instead of craving for “shinnies”

But i do understand that but like i said you are right i dont care about the Legendary

Was it prudent? Maybe. However it’s not only people who have reputations to consider. Even a company can get a unpleasant reputation if people feel they’ve been taken advantage of.

Right now the issue of trustworthiness has mostly gone quiet. It only pops up in threads like these. But being quiet doesn’t mean people have forgotten. The next expansion, if they haven’t restarted the Legendary crafting and they promise features X, Y and Z to be in that expansion and then put the expansion for sale, then this whole thing is going to come right back up again. People will be posting saying, “If you buy the expansion they’ll just go back on their word and cancel that feature for reasons. You can’t trust them to keep their word once they have your money.” ANet will be trying to hype their new expansion and all the issues of trust will be dragging down the hype and hurting their sales.

So, maybe you don’t care about Legendaries and maybe all you care about is events, mechanics, new mobs. But issues of trust can cause long lasting harm and are not easily resolved and loss of income from loss of trust can impact the production of what you like as well as what others like.

You’re overstating your case. Keep their word. You mean like no expansions? No grind? And now no legendary items?

I’ve been down this road before, and it’s not worth this amount of hand-wringing. It’s a non-existent item in a video game. And if it’s a question of trust? Too late. Damage already done. People left because of the content drought, lack of overall content in the expansion, and that funny business with the sale of the Core game and pricing issues.

This discussion about not getting legendaries is moot. Why? Because there won’t be a game to play if this trend continues. Heart of Thorns and the content drought that followed created that level of discontent. Do you want legendaries or do you want content to keep the game population interested, alive, and well?

That’s the scenario Mike faced, and he made the right decision. In time, everyone will get their precious legendaries.

Right now, keeping the game alive comes first.

It’s easy for Anet to indefinitely suspend an advertised feature once they have your money…… Instead of delivering on advertised features they would rather work on the next moneymaking scheme which is the next expansion…… They reassigned the team of 6 that were working on the legendary journies while they have an immense staff already working on the next expansion

I know this is a game about make believe but the make believe shouldn’t start with advertised features

Ardenwolfe.8590:

As much as I dislike the turn this thread took, let me ask this: What do you want ANet to do? ‘Indefinitely suspended’ means it’s suspended until the authority over it decides otherwise.

That doesn’t mean forever. It mean it’s suspended until another criteria is met and fulfilled. Given the recent numbers on another thread, it was absolutely prudent that ANet did what it did until Living World and the upcoming expansion is out sooner than later.

The game is not in a good place now. The content drought proved this out. To complain about legendaries, even with all the opinions provided, is like complaining about not getting a nice table when you’re starving to death.

Can we please at least be rational?

you are actually wrong, in saying it was the right business descion.

how well your next expansion does is going to have a lot to do with how you fulfilled your last expansion.

many people in discussing the last expansion’s worth, said its not just whats in the box, its what they will add in the future.
a content drought, 25% the legendaries they promised, late on a number of things, does not help sell a new expansion.

many people feel they should have delivered on their public statements, even if that lowered their short term profits (like hiring 6 new developers), which costs about 1 million over the course of 2 years, at average salary.
seeing as how the game makes 60-100 million a year, and hot boosted earnings by 20 million over two quarters, its a reasonable cost to maintain consumer trust.

that ship has sailed at this point, its best to just realize anet really doesnt believe in deciding the future of their game, they want you to buy what exists now, not invest in the future. this is why MO doesnt want to talk about game plans, he has no real commitment to any specific plans.

this is different than what people are used to, disney already told us to expect at least 4 more star wars movies, netflix told us two years ago they would have 4 more marvel series. capcom told us which 4 chars to expect 6 months after release.

but its just not the reality of the gw2 product

Let me put it more succinctly: The ship is sinking. Putting garlands on the bow isn’t going to help. You have to plug the hole or it’s Game Over. ANet is fully aware of their missteps, and they’ve said so. The question isn’t how do they get more customers.

It’s how do they keep the ones that remain.

Am I overstating my case? Who knows. However you’ve seen how hot this one small thread got with people goading each other and making personal comments. If there’s a new expansion with unresolved trust issues and they’re asking people to trust them with their money, I guess we’ll see then if it still looks overstated. I’m personally expecting it to be a hot and divisive topic where ANet’s reputation will be extensively discussed.

I think I will indefinitely suspend my 50 dollars from the next expansion.

phys.7689:

Vayne.8563:

phys.7689:

Vayne.8563:

phys.7689:

long and short of it is, you cant trust anet to deliver on what they say. this means when trying to figure out if the product is worth it to you, go primarly on what you ve seen in the past, and on the present.
nothing they say regarding future plans really means much

The long and short of it is, Anet has promised hundreds of things and didn’t deliver on a small handful. You should judge everyone you know that way.

It’s a matter of focus.

They also delivered a bunch of stuff I didn’t know about that I really liked.

I’d say, over all, they delivered more than I was expecting, not less.

they were late with tons of things, under delivered on many, and changed their minds on many things.
im not saying they had no reasons, but as far as developers go, they are not top of the list on intentions and what they deliver.

basically, if anet says this is what to expect, take it with a grain of salt. even if they deliver on 80% of what they say, there is still a substantial chance that it may not come to pass. this doesnt mean they should say nothing, just that you got to realize who you are dealing with.

following through on ideas, or schedules is not high on anets priority, their priority is doing whatever they feel is most important in that moment.

there are some people who will show up to a concert in the rain because they said they would, there are others who will cancel because they think concerts in the rain suck for all involved.

like you said, you start to know what to expect when you deal with people after a time, you know who is the former and who is the latter.

Except that the percentage is probably closer to 95% not 80%. If you list everything Anet has EVER said, and you take away what they haven’t delivered it’s a very low percentage.

its actually noticeably larger if you combine
undelivered/changed/exagerrated, which is what most people consider when they weigh someones trustworthyness.

I’m not buying this at all. Not even a little. I mean people tend to hype themselves anyway, without Anet saying anything.

The biggest example is that Anet said straight up this expansion would be lighter on content because they were redeveloping base systems which they’d use moving forward.

Did that really stop people from complaining the expansion was light on content.

I’m sure if you took every single thing promised, all of it and you numbered them, compared to what’s in the game, you’d find that well over 90% it was in the game.

But then, there are many things they never promised that are in the game that are awesome.

Anet did say, for example, that they wouldn’t be able to bring gliding to core Tyria. They changed their mind on that, because they realized they could. But people don’t say they lied, even though the eventual reality of the situation has changed.

And some people didn’t want gliding on core Tyria and complained about it right here on these forums. Maybe those people would think that what Anet was doing was unethical.

I don’t think it was though. Anet made decisions based on a shifting situation. They’ve always said they iterate and change things. They even had an entire blog post about it back in the day. They told us up front how they work.

I signed into this game knowing this was how they work. It’s sort of late to say changing stuff is unethical.

And I’ll bet you dollars to donuts that legendaries are coming back to the game, in a substantially different form. They just needed to retool how they do the quests for them is my guess, which takes time to work out.

Why won’t they say anything about it? Because when they do say stuff and change it, people call them liars and unethical. I wouldn’t say so much either.

Just a flesh wound.3589:

Was it prudent? Maybe. However it’s not only people who have reputations to consider. Even a company can get a unpleasant reputation if people feel they’ve been taken advantage of.

Right now the issue of trustworthiness has mostly gone quiet. It only pops up in threads like these. But being quiet doesn’t mean people have forgotten. The next expansion, if they haven’t restarted the Legendary crafting and they promise features X, Y and Z to be in that expansion and then put the expansion for sale, then this whole thing is going to come right back up again. People will be posting saying, “If you buy the expansion they’ll just go back on their word and cancel that feature for reasons. You can’t trust them to keep their word once they have your money.” ANet will be trying to hype their new expansion and all the issues of trust will be dragging down the hype and hurting their sales.

So, maybe you don’t care about Legendaries and maybe all you care about is events, mechanics, new mobs. But issues of trust can cause long lasting harm and are not easily resolved and loss of income from loss of trust can impact the production of what you like as well as what others like.

it is a fine opinion , well rounded one i must say
but it is your own fault in trusting them in the first place and getting hurt by that

I am pleased with what i got from the expansion and i payed good money for that so i am a happy costumer

you on the other hand go a head and point the fingers if you think this pocking will make a change maybe it would do some good and i dont mind that every costumer has the full right to criticize

but why should i care about the costumer base ?
why should i be worried that players will leave the game?
there are plenty of games out there for me to experience
this is something the company it self should be worried about

so the entire post is to try and convince by stating worrying trust issues and player base leaving the game as an argument…
i can flip the argument entirely as well by just picking the right words as you do
for example if you get Anet crew to work on legendaries and neglect every thing else that has to do with the core game as events and new mobe and etc
players will leave as well… cause lack of content
so we are just flipping coins here my friend

so like i said i dont care about legendary and i dont feel i got lied by Anet
opinions are just opinions

The amount of people defending ANet’s decision to stop (postpone indefinitely, w/e) new legendary weapons is astounding. I guess people like to be lied to, or just think that, since they don’t care that much about new legendaries, then it doesn’t matter, not realising that once a payed-for promise is cancelled, others can be cancelled too. Because that is the problem here, this wasn’t something hinted-at, this was a straight-up selling point for the expansion.

SkyFallsInThunder.8257:

The amount of people defending ANet’s decision to stop (postpone indefinitely, w/e) new legendary weapons is astounding. I guess people like to be lied to, or just think that, since they don’t care that much about new legendaries, then it doesn’t matter, not realising that once a payed-for promise is cancelled, others can be cancelled too. Because that is the problem here, this wasn’t something hinted-at, this was a straight-up selling point for the expansion.

Actually, I don’t defend Anet’s decision to do this. I simply acknowledge that in the real world, things can change. If I were making a game and I realized that not enough people were making the new legendaries, but I was spending a relatively large amount of resources to make them, I might well make the same decision Anet made.

There’s a difference between defending the decision and accepting the idea that it might be the right decision, whether I like it or not.

For example, I don’t like ascended gear. I’ve never liked ascended gear. That doesn’t mean it was wrong for Anet to introduced ascended gear into the game.

The situation had changed at launch, people were getting their top level gear and felt they had nothing to work towards and they were leaving. So Anet changed something.

I didn’t like the change, nor did I think it meant Anet were a bunch of liars.

Sometimes, there’s a middle ground. I like to have a reasonable, measured response, because unlike many people, I don’t assume I know the background behind every situation that occurs in game. I don’t know how many people were making legendaries or what problems the team encountered.

The fact is, I enjoy making legendaries and made one of the HoT ones and was looking forward to more legendary weapons. It doesn’t mean I have to feel betrayed, because the decision wasn’t directed at me. It was a decision that didn’t benefit me personally but may well have benefited the game.

I could have jumped up and down and screamed and stamped my foot, but it wouldn’t have done much, because it still could have been better for the game. I just don’t have the information to make that assessment.

From what I can gather, it probably was better for the game over all, even if it wasn’t better for me personally.

Shovel Face.4512:

If I buy something that was clearly advertised by a company, and that company not only does not deliver with the item but doesn’t even give me my money back, I consider it fraudulent and deceiving. And its really not just the Legendarys but everything else that Anet has promised but have failed to deliver

Apparently you failed to read or understand the ToS. I will sum it up for you, though, copy and pasted from another complaint thread: ANet has a ToS (just like every MMO I have ever seen) and it, in short, states (just like they all do with varying levels of ‘legalese’) that you are RENTING access to their servers, you do NOT own any portion of this game and they CAN change anything they see fit at any time for any reason.

So, yeah

Vayne.8563:

phys.7689:

Vayne.8563:

phys.7689:

Vayne.8563:

phys.7689:

long and short of it is, you cant trust anet to deliver on what they say. this means when trying to figure out if the product is worth it to you, go primarly on what you ve seen in the past, and on the present.
nothing they say regarding future plans really means much

The long and short of it is, Anet has promised hundreds of things and didn’t deliver on a small handful. You should judge everyone you know that way.

It’s a matter of focus.

They also delivered a bunch of stuff I didn’t know about that I really liked.

I’d say, over all, they delivered more than I was expecting, not less.

they were late with tons of things, under delivered on many, and changed their minds on many things.
im not saying they had no reasons, but as far as developers go, they are not top of the list on intentions and what they deliver.

basically, if anet says this is what to expect, take it with a grain of salt. even if they deliver on 80% of what they say, there is still a substantial chance that it may not come to pass. this doesnt mean they should say nothing, just that you got to realize who you are dealing with.

following through on ideas, or schedules is not high on anets priority, their priority is doing whatever they feel is most important in that moment.

there are some people who will show up to a concert in the rain because they said they would, there are others who will cancel because they think concerts in the rain suck for all involved.

like you said, you start to know what to expect when you deal with people after a time, you know who is the former and who is the latter.

Except that the percentage is probably closer to 95% not 80%. If you list everything Anet has EVER said, and you take away what they haven’t delivered it’s a very low percentage.

its actually noticeably larger if you combine
undelivered/changed/exagerrated, which is what most people consider when they weigh someones trustworthyness.

I’m not buying this at all. Not even a little. I mean people tend to hype themselves anyway, without Anet saying anything.

The biggest example is that Anet said straight up this expansion would be lighter on content because they were redeveloping base systems which they’d use moving forward.

Did that really stop people from complaining the expansion was light on content.

I’m sure if you took every single thing promised, all of it and you numbered them, compared to what’s in the game, you’d find that well over 90% it was in the game.

But then, there are many things they never promised that are in the game that are awesome.

Anet did say, for example, that they wouldn’t be able to bring gliding to core Tyria. They changed their mind on that, because they realized they could. But people don’t say they lied, even though the eventual reality of the situation has changed.

And some people didn’t want gliding on core Tyria and complained about it right here on these forums. Maybe those people would think that what Anet was doing was unethical.

I don’t think it was though. Anet made decisions based on a shifting situation. They’ve always said they iterate and change things. They even had an entire blog post about it back in the day. They told us up front how they work.

I signed into this game knowing this was how they work. It’s sort of late to say changing stuff is unethical.

And I’ll bet you dollars to donuts that legendaries are coming back to the game, in a substantially different form. They just needed to retool how they do the quests for them is my guess, which takes time to work out.

Why won’t they say anything about it? Because when they do say stuff and change it, people call them liars and unethical. I wouldn’t say so much either.

Yes and how much content have we got after hot and these new redeveloped base systems? I guess next expansion will be light on content aswell due to reredeveloping some base system aswell.

Just a flesh wound.3589:

For the record, this is what was advertised and what people paid for when they bought the HoT expansion. In the advertisement it was explicitly said that small groups would be released at regular intervals. This was an advertised and paid for feature of the expansion that was not delivered to its purchasers according to the terms of the implied contract of the advertisement due to being “indefinitely suspended.”

“Guild Wars 2: Heart of Thorns heralds the beginning of the first new set of legendary weapons to be added to the game since its original set of twenty included in the launch of Guild Wars 2. The first three we’ll release are a celestially themed axe called Astralaria, an experimental energy themed pistol called H.O.P.E., and a raven spirit themed staff called Nevermore. It takes a lot of work to craft these legendary journeys for release, so rather than take the time to develop the full set before releasing any of them, we will be releasing new legendary weapons in small groups at regular intervals until the full set of sixteen has been added to the game."

Now, you may not care about Legendaries and you may not care that you bought something that the company has not delivered and has not given a timetable for restarting after “indefinitely suspending.” However I feel you should at least respect those who do care about what they paid for and were expecting to get the Legendaries that were advertised and they paid for, and see why they feel that ANet went back on their word.

Must say, that wording is so vague, that they’re still well within range for releasing new legendaries. If MO hadn’t said anything, nobody would be the wiser if they then also released more legendaries under some new system in like 3 months.

This dead horse should be buried with the rest of the mounts.