Guild Wars 2

I guess I’ve gotten used to the hype considering this is the company that convinced thousands of players to make an Oath video consequently against everything this game has actually become, eastern economy, gear treadmill grind, dungeon focused around the time they made the oath commercial so it’s no surprise to me really.

I actually agree with Vayne, shivers……

Selling the patch isn’t necessary, explaining ahead of time that there’s alot to fix would be respected by the playerbase because we know it’s hard work. And while we are happy you started this hard work and we are happy to get information on what’s coming (some of it has been long overdue) we don’t need it to be sold. You see Anet you had the system down prelaunch, you spoke about your game calmly you didn’t have to market because the playerbase communicated what was coming from your interviews. It was all word of mouth.

If you treat the next patch like that, where you do interviews or you put out posts telling us what’s next I can guarantee you there would be almost no backlash (because there will always be complainers who don’t get everything they wanted instantly who can’t seem to see the good in the patch you are releasing) there would be however word of mouth spreading across the net about how you’ve changed your direction towards the players who originally bought the game for it not to be all about gear grinds or dungeon content and the word will spread all by itself.

Mesket.5728:

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

Now it’s a discussion, again, about profession loot.

because there are forum users out there that still don’t get it

I don’t get why it’s terrible, evil, stupid, or whatever else word you want to attach to it. I further don’t get how it’s different from what I have now where I don’t get what I will be using, except to price out components versus the TP value.

. . . which is not set in stone, and presumably if they do see a sudden explosion in silk being available then it would drop the price of silk instead of keeping it steady.

I sort of had a similar, albeit quite more negative, tone when Mike O’Brien had an interview somewhere, I cannot remember where exactly, and he w was infront of the camera pretty much saying Living Story is a slam dunk success. Whether you love LS or hate it, its far from a slam dunk success, especially in the first season(and this was probably mid-season last year).

They love to sit in front of cameras and tout that all is well and happy joy joy. Over hype, over market, over smile. But as seen in this thread, still people aren’t getting what they have asked for, or are being set up for big let downs.

I’ll say I havent read all of the patch notes and I dont know how it is in game yet, but just judging from the posts in this thread seems to be an overwhelming let down of a patch.

My 2 cents.

Edit: I dont mean to turn this into an “love LS” or “hate LS” debate. Simply saying, this stuff goes beyond their blogs on their websites, and extends to camera interviews.

tigirius.9014:

I actually agree with Vayne, shivers……

Selling the patch isn’t necessary, explaining ahead of time that there’s alot to fix would be respected by the playerbase because we know it’s hard work. And while we are happy you started this hard work and we are happy to get information on what’s coming (some of it has been long overdue) we don’t need it to be sold. You see Anet you had the system down prelaunch, you spoke about your game calmly you didn’t have to market because the playerbase communicated what was coming from your interviews. It was all word of mouth.

If you treat the next patch like that, where you do interviews or you put out posts telling us what’s next I can guarantee you there would be almost no backlash (because there will always be complainers who don’t get everything they wanted instantly who can’t seem to see the good in the patch you are releasing) there would be however word of mouth spreading across the net about how you’ve changed your direction towards the players who originally bought the game for it not to be all about gear grinds or dungeon content and the word will spread all by itself.

I am of two minds.

If they pretty much just come out and go “this is the thing we have in mind” with little fanfare? I’m pretty sure we’d see the same volume of complaining, only a different tune being called out. All we would wind up doing is trading one anthem of disappointment for another.

I’m more of a fan how Mojang did/does its update announcements: quietly drop a screenshot, then go from there.

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

Mesket.5728:

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

Now it’s a discussion, again, about profession loot.

because there are forum users out there that still don’t get it

I don’t get why it’s terrible, evil, stupid, or whatever else word you want to attach to it. I further don’t get how it’s different from what I have now where I don’t get what I will be using, except to price out components versus the TP value.

. . . which is not set in stone, and presumably if they do see a sudden explosion in silk being available then it would drop the price of silk instead of keeping it steady.

Because leather, cloth and metal, no matter how they move up or down, will never be reliably at the same price. All varieties of rare weapons will never be reliably at the same price (well, only if forging precursors is completely removed). This is persistent inequality: it will exist no matter what the market, it doesn’t depend on the current conditions. I said all this, like, 2 posts ago.

Olvendred.3027:

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

Mesket.5728:

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

Now it’s a discussion, again, about profession loot.

because there are forum users out there that still don’t get it

I don’t get why it’s terrible, evil, stupid, or whatever else word you want to attach to it. I further don’t get how it’s different from what I have now where I don’t get what I will be using, except to price out components versus the TP value.

. . . which is not set in stone, and presumably if they do see a sudden explosion in silk being available then it would drop the price of silk instead of keeping it steady.

Because leather, cloth and metal, no matter how they move up or down, will never be reliably at the same price. All varieties of rare weapons will never be reliably at the same price (well, only if forging precursors is completely removed). This is persistent inequality: it will exist no matter what the market, it doesn’t depend on the current conditions. I said all this, like, 2 posts ago.

It doesn’t matter. You can’t go against fanboys

Vayne.8563:

Iason Evan.3806:

Vayne.8563:

I’m definitely excited about the better frame rate at large events.

That’s not a feature though. Just a hotfix. Some of the things that have gotten blog posts are like going to a movie theater for a sneak peak at a trailer. No thanks. Do I appreciate the changes? Yeah! Do they need blog posts? I think a lot of them would have been in the patch notes 1 and a half years ago. When they finally fix the myriad Mesmer issues that have been around forever it should just be in the patch notes because that’s where fixes go.

Actually I wouldn’t call making changes to client and server side a “hot fix”. It’s far more than that. It’s optimization.

Edit: I believe that it’s probably a lot more work than most people think it is.

I won’t argue “optimization” as the word for it. Fact still remains it isn’t a feature. It’s game polish. The way they are changing how drops work is a feature. Fixing framerate issues is not. If we are talking semantics and marketing/PR speak in this thread(which we are) let’s be honest. It’s not a feature.

Olvendred.3027:

Because leather, cloth and metal, no matter how they move up or down, will never be reliably at the same price. All varieties of rare weapons will never be reliably at the same price (well, only if forging precursors is completely removed). This is persistent inequality: it will exist no matter what the market, it doesn’t depend on the current conditions. I said all this, like, 2 posts ago.

These things don’t need to be reliably at the same price, though. Not when the bottleneck for any crafting under 400 is still the Fine materials . . . leather, cloth, metal, wood . . . doesn’t matter as much if you’re not holding enough Fangs, Blood, or Scales.

Really, the only thing I’ve noticed is how you can craft basic, serviceable rares or exotic gear you need to fill up on for far cheaper than you can pay for it. And people still pay for it. Heck, you don’t even need to craft exotic armor, you can just check out a Karma vendor in Orr after a temple is cleared.

And yet, I keep hearing this thing about how hard it is to grind gold to buy exotics. When you don’t really need to pay anything if you want to take the time and do events rather than just farm whatever farm is popular this season. (Truthfully, I think you’d have more fun just doing events but I also thought Obsidian was well over-rated as armor art.)

Mesket.5728:

It doesn’t matter. You can’t go against fanboys

You also can’t argue with someone who won’t stop repeating “you’re an idiot”. But then, that’s the price for actually liking the game these days.

Iason Evan.3806:

Vayne.8563:

Iason Evan.3806:

Vayne.8563:

I’m definitely excited about the better frame rate at large events.

That’s not a feature though. Just a hotfix. Some of the things that have gotten blog posts are like going to a movie theater for a sneak peak at a trailer. No thanks. Do I appreciate the changes? Yeah! Do they need blog posts? I think a lot of them would have been in the patch notes 1 and a half years ago. When they finally fix the myriad Mesmer issues that have been around forever it should just be in the patch notes because that’s where fixes go.

Actually I wouldn’t call making changes to client and server side a “hot fix”. It’s far more than that. It’s optimization.

Edit: I believe that it’s probably a lot more work than most people think it is.

I won’t argue “optimization” as the word for it. Fact still remains it isn’t a feature. It’s game polish. The way they are changing how drops work is a feature. Fixing framerate issues is not. If we are talking semantics and marketing/PR speak in this thread(which we are) let’s be honest. It’s not a feature.

I’m not sure whether it matters if its a feature or not. That’s really the problem here. Feature packs weren’t meant to contain just features. They were meant to contain all sorts of stuff that wasn’t going to be released while the living story was going on. Keep feature/fixes/updates separated from living story so they didn’t impinge on each other.

They called this a feature patch. Saying X is a feature by Y isn’t a feature isn’t relevent. It a game improvement that possibly took a lot of time and work to program. I know if they gave me a choice between better performance in zergs and any feature in the pack. that would be my choice.

Saying it’s not a feature in no way diminishes it to me.

Yes it’s a small patch; maybe it is that way because of the drop in sales.
http://www.gamespot.com/articles/guild-wars-2-sees-massive-drop-in-sales-this-year-but-that-s-no-cause-for-alarm/1100-6417784/

An expansion model would have been a better model than a free LS model business wise, specially since the game is desperate for new content (which would attract new players more than levelling changes).

But it’s still hard to believe they have 300 people just pumping out the Living Story and packaging it for China. I mean how can it not be disappointing when after a year waiting all that WvW gets are 3 tags colors and a siege disabler?

Meanwhile another big name MMO is getting 2 new huge competitive maps released soon. Is it because they have monthly fees or because they just decided to do it?

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

Olvendred.3027:

Because leather, cloth and metal, no matter how they move up or down, will never be reliably at the same price. All varieties of rare weapons will never be reliably at the same price (well, only if forging precursors is completely removed). This is persistent inequality: it will exist no matter what the market, it doesn’t depend on the current conditions. I said all this, like, 2 posts ago.

These things don’t need to be reliably at the same price, though. Not when the bottleneck for any crafting under 400 is still the Fine materials . . . leather, cloth, metal, wood . . . doesn’t matter as much if you’re not holding enough Fangs, Blood, or Scales.

Really, the only thing I’ve noticed is how you can craft basic, serviceable rares or exotic gear you need to fill up on for far cheaper than you can pay for it. And people still pay for it. Heck, you don’t even need to craft exotic armor, you can just check out a Karma vendor in Orr after a temple is cleared.

And yet, I keep hearing this thing about how hard it is to grind gold to buy exotics. When you don’t really need to pay anything if you want to take the time and do events rather than just farm whatever farm is popular this season. (Truthfully, I think you’d have more fun just doing events but I also thought Obsidian was well over-rated as armor art.)

That’s the point. When you get to level 80, you buy gear (with gold, tokens, karma, whatever), and you maybe eventually buy or farm the mats to make ascended. The vast majority of your drops aren’t anything to do with your personal progression, they’re directly equated to gold. While profit is not the primary reason to play the game, it is an important reward mechanism, and this change makes your gold reward unequal between classes, just because you happen to be playing whichever class.

I don’t think people should be punished in terms of one of the game’s main reward systems, simply for playing whatever class they like.

Olvendred.3027:

I don’t think people should be punished in terms of one of the game’s main reward systems, simply for playing whatever class they like.

Although, is it “punishing” someone if you give out bonuses with a paycheck, and occasionally someone’s is less than someone else’s?

I agree with you on one thing: I do wish to stop being punished for choosing ranger by the game and the other players. Especially as I can’t seem to play zerker warrior like “everyone else”.

Xillllix.3485:

Yes it’s a small patch; maybe it is that way because of the drop in sales.
http://www.gamespot.com/articles/guild-wars-2-sees-massive-drop-in-sales-this-year-but-that-s-no-cause-for-alarm/1100-6417784/

An expansion model would have been a better model than a free LS model business wise, specially since the game is desperate for new content (which would attract new players more than levelling changes).

But it’s still hard to believe they have 300 people just pumping out the Living Story and packaging it for China. I mean how can it not be disappointing when after a year waiting all that WvW gets are 3 tags colors and a siege disabler?

Meanwhile another big name MMO is getting 2 new huge competitive maps released soon. Is it because they have monthly fees or because they just decided to do it?

Nothing to do with this. This is a complete red herring.

Games like Guild Wars 2 aren’t designed to make money off more and more sales. They’re designed to make money off the cash shop. After release, almost every game sells less and less over the years.

The cash shop, however, according to the same quarterly report is still profitable.

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

Olvendred.3027:

I don’t think people should be punished in terms of one of the game’s main reward systems, simply for playing whatever class they like.

Although, is it “punishing” someone if you give out bonuses with a paycheck, and occasionally someone’s is less than someone else’s?

I agree with you on one thing: I do wish to stop being punished for choosing ranger by the game and the other players. Especially as I can’t seem to play zerker warrior like “everyone else”.

It’s ‘punishing’ if two people do the exact same job and get the exact same results, but one gets paid more. Engi and ele in a party together doing map completion in Kessex hills – ele will tend to get better loot. The entire loot system is based on RNG, so the larger the sample sixe, the more you can leave out “tend to” (ie. “ele will get better loot” (example uses current prices)).

Olvendred.3027:

It’s ‘punishing’ if two people do the exact same job and get the exact same results, but one gets paid more.

Short of crunching math figures (and getting them correct), nobody gets “the exact same results” at anything.

Besides, the engi and the ele both lose out when there’s a farm two zones over making loot hand over fist, or they’re not part of the Edge of the Mists train. Or if neither of them happens to get a Dusk drop but someone else does.

Too much randomness in figuring out whether someone is getting “the proper amount of loot”. Best to ignore it and deal with what actually is in front of you instead of worrying about what the other guy is getting.

Just a suggestion, perhaps the loot discussion could be continued here?
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/Please-No-Profession-Loot/page/9#post4361058

I don’t see much fault with the communication. I expect PR in the blog posts. The dev comments here on the forum are mainly down to earth and as direct as they can be. Although often repetitive when it’s a case of “we can’t say, give details” etc.

Xillllix.3485:

Yes it’s a small patch; maybe it is that way because of the drop in sales.
http://www.gamespot.com/articles/guild-wars-2-sees-massive-drop-in-sales-this-year-but-that-s-no-cause-for-alarm/1100-6417784/

An expansion model would have been a better model than a free LS model business wise, specially since the game is desperate for new content (which would attract new players more than levelling changes).

But it’s still hard to believe they have 300 people just pumping out the Living Story and packaging it for China. I mean how can it not be disappointing when after a year waiting all that WvW gets are 3 tags colors and a siege disabler?

Meanwhile another big name MMO is getting 2 new huge competitive maps released soon. Is it because they have monthly fees or because they just decided to do it?

Gee, that’s a rather old article. Perhaps, something a bit more current would be more appropriate.

While I do agree with Vayne that ANet should talk more openly to us. I don’t agree that he should have singled out this feature pack as an example. They can hardly say, “Here is a QoL feature pack. Makes some changes. Some will like it. Some will not”.

In marketing, everything always has to be the best thing since sliced bread. When has anyone seen an advertisement that said, “We made some changes, hope you will like it. We know not everyone will”. To expect ANet to do this is not reasonable.

What is reasonable is to expect more openness and a rough guideline to the future. A blog posted every month or so that says what they hope to accomplish and what had to be scrapped. To expect changes in marketing, that won’t happen.

Vayne.8563:

Anet, talk to us without the PR

Come on man, you’ve been here long enough. You know that’s what they do. Over-hype and drop-feed us news or content. The little news they do release, are very insubstantial and extra padded with irrelevance. Similarly, the little content they put out is artificially lengthened with grinding, terrain barriers and time-gating.

Their excuse back then was their desperate race against MMOs locusts devouring the content. What is their excuse now?

Has anyone here considered maybe you hyped it up too much for yourselves?

I’ll admit Anet used some misleading words to describe some of the features, but come on, that’s advertising. It’s your own fault if you actually expected something incredible to come out of this feature patch and are now let down enough to come on here and make an entire thread about what you think the problem is and how to solve it, no different than all the others doing the exact same thing.

The problem is that people spend way too much idle time thinking about one video game and trying to solve imaginary problems.

Actually it really hurts that Anet cant develop so many easy fixes already suggested by community for example visible cursor cause in www/masive fight people lose it really often . And it was suggested actually after first month of the game .

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

Olvendred.3027:

It’s ‘punishing’ if two people do the exact same job and get the exact same results, but one gets paid more.

Short of crunching math figures (and getting them correct), nobody gets “the exact same results” at anything.

Besides, the engi and the ele both lose out when there’s a farm two zones over making loot hand over fist, or they’re not part of the Edge of the Mists train. Or if neither of them happens to get a Dusk drop but someone else does.

Too much randomness in figuring out whether someone is getting “the proper amount of loot”. Best to ignore it and deal with what actually is in front of you instead of worrying about what the other guy is getting.

I replied in the thread on the actual topic

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/Please-No-Profession-Loot/page/9

Inculpatus cedo.9234:

Xillllix.3485:

Yes it’s a small patch; maybe it is that way because of the drop in sales.
http://www.gamespot.com/articles/guild-wars-2-sees-massive-drop-in-sales-this-year-but-that-s-no-cause-for-alarm/1100-6417784/

An expansion model would have been a better model than a free LS model business wise, specially since the game is desperate for new content (which would attract new players more than levelling changes).

But it’s still hard to believe they have 300 people just pumping out the Living Story and packaging it for China. I mean how can it not be disappointing when after a year waiting all that WvW gets are 3 tags colors and a siege disabler?

Meanwhile another big name MMO is getting 2 new huge competitive maps released soon. Is it because they have monthly fees or because they just decided to do it?

Gee, that’s a rather old article. Perhaps, something a bit more current would be more appropriate.

I don’t think so, the stuff we are getting now is stuff they have designed at that time.
12-18 months in advance is a common time-window for MMO development considering there is at least 6 months of testing. And 12 months ago is when some of these featured were heavily discussed on the forum.