Guild Wars 2

Play EVE if you want punishing.

Hellkaiser.6025:

sorry but reading that last one screamed to me of

“nostalgia goggles”

You wanna know how I know my class? you ask me, because you should know it yourself, because there’s no real harm in creating a level 1 alt, going to heart of the mists and being auto 80 with full traits unlocked and skills and going “hmm 2+2”
Getting the 4 that you should inevitably and simply get and going that could combo with x, and y etc. the game is simple enough to get rid of that rubbish “let’s force the players to sit down for 15 minutes at a time”

What I WOULD love to see in gw2 was more areas with fun things to do, like the inns are great and full of npc fun, but you can’t like pick up a set of darts and play a minigame with friend or enjoy a few drinks that make you bleary eyed and slur your words, the kinda semi RP fun that gets people in a light hearted mood and chatting.
If they were way more fun and had more in them players would be DRAWN into them naturally and you’d get a slightly better sense of immersion, as it is we’ve a massive massive MASSIVE world with many area’s and yet we lack hubs that draw people to them

This is the kind of thing that would make me forget all about the “lack of Nintendo hard challenge” in the game and give a nice sense of nostalgic “this is always good in a game and familiar”

Just saw this and had to say: darts is the greatest game in human history. All electronic versions so far have sucked, but if someone could do it well, I’d pay

and I agree that the massive number of “things” that happen that don’t actually lead anywhere in this world is sad.

I spent a half hour following an NPC in Rata Sum (or thereabouts) called “Prison Warden Zikki” as she patrolled her prison and talked with The Talking Bear, The Mysterious Chicken, The Mad Scientist and other. Only to find out that that was all that happened.

I was truly sad. I so wanted that to lead to something more.

Broke my heart really. Which is obviously different than a game heart which can’t be broken. Much like the “dynamic events” at this point, of which, I’ve only ever seen two fail. And those failures changed… well nothing I could see. So let’s call them “Timed Events” rather than dynamic.

I’ve played Darkfall Online and EVE in the past few years, and they are probably the most punishing games currently around i.e. full loot, non-consensual pvp.

I love the atmosphere these games create but, quite simply, the market for these games is much smaller than none-to-low-consequence games. It’s simply a matter of economics IMO.

I mean, look at their subs – EVE is ~400k of which I would bet about 50% are alts, DFO had about 10k for most of its life. (Let’s see what kind of subs DF:UW manages to hold.)

Vanguard kept the corpse runs of EQ and IMO they created some of the most enjoyable memories of the game. These have been dropped now – the majority of gamers just don’t want them apparently.

IMO – time-wasting elements are crap and I’m glad they’ve done away with them. With the average gamer age now being in the 30’s, we have lives, families, jobs etc and don’t have 1 hour to just meet up with a group. However, I do wish there were penalties for not playing well – it makes people learn to play better.

It would be a brave, and probably a lot poorer, company that would release a AAA game with them in.

I miss EQ. I know there are certain things I wouldn’t like now, like corpse runs, but then again, if a game came out with them, I would not complain. I am sure there are other little things I could live without, but wouldn’t be bothered if they were in game.

But the fact that an entire generation of mmo players have never experienced a train is sad to me. I remember trains in EQ and it never got old to me, I always got excited and wanted to go see how big it was. lol I only remember someone using trains to grief once, and I guess in my young girl wimzy, i laughed the whole time because it was….thrilling. Trying to survive, escape it. It felt dangerous. The games world as a whole felt dangerous.

I remember leveling to 56 around 5 times before I got enough xp to distance myself from 55. And once I was at the half way mark, I was so pleased lol. It was like a small victory, I had to really earn that level lol I know that sounds like it would suck, but to me, it was one of those minor accomplishments that left me feeling like “yes, i did it.”

I feel cheated by those old MMOs. They put those time/money sinks in the game just to keep me playing. Not fun, but I had invested too much into the game to walk away.

I, personally, wish those penalizing mechanics never, ever get mainstream again. The days of endless free time are long gone.
As has already been said, most of the ‘old’ gamers are in their 30s and 40s and have different focuses, their families being probably the most important one. I don’t know if I can speak for others, but I play MMOs as a way to relax and spend some time with friends online. In the evening, after I’m done with all the work and kids are in their beds, I have an hour, maybe two I can spend on some MMO fun. I want that time to be frustration free, low adrenaline stuff. I’ve got too much hardcore/l33t/punishing/competitive bs going on in my life to be craving for it when I play a game and want to relax.

After reading all of the throw back memories from some of the above posters the recurring theme is that it’s an overall lack of time that keeps people from wanting to play or play in the future a game that harkened back to the old days of time sink mechanics; corpse runs.

I don’t have as much time as I did back in those days either but it isn’t time that would keep me from going to a game like that. It’s games that try to reach out to those days are poorly made and managed, like Mortal Online as stated above in another post.

If eqnext is remotely at all like eq1 more than eq2 then I will jump on board that ship immediately (especially if they actually bring back ship travel).

It might just be me, but the little things like corpse runs, sense heading, ship travel, camping mobs in specific places, not knowing how the hell to complete a quest that takes you all over the world just to give you a pile of garbage (ghoulbane I’m looking at you) gives me a sense of being a actual living part of the world I’m playing in.

The games since 2004 haven’t ever given me that feeling of immersion, not just character immersion but complete world immersion. Now I’m just another toy in the toy chest, I speed along my way from 1 to 50,60,80 whatever the launch cap is. There’s no breaks, there’s no pause, it’s go go boy!!! "You’re the savior of the world!!! "

Back in EQ1, I wasn’t the savior of the world or hero of the universe. I was just some stupid necromancer wandering around a huge unforgiving world of death. It took friends, guilds, and strange random people from around the globe to help unlock secrets, riches, and power.

I’m looking forward to DF:UW but I’m pretty sure it will just be like the first iteration of DF, blood walls and all.

Some might say that I’m just pining for the mmo that broke my cherry so to speak, but EQ1 was my 3rd mmo. It was really just the one that completely sucked me in for what it offered.

I could be a happy camper if one mmo would come out that just offered something that had any resemblance of a soul that those games had back then. And combat and crafting doesn’t equal a soul, that’s just basics.

Put in real alcohol systems, bam! I’m happy. No game has even came close to touching that aspect. EQ1, get drunk as a skunk, your vision turns to complete kitten tunnel vision. You can’t walk in a straight line, and you can’t even type a sentence without it coming out all gibberish like. And depending on the amount you consume the time to sober up differs. Which in time raises your tolerance and it takes more booze to reach that state of intoxication.

Other games have tried, GW2 included. But all it really does is slightly skew your vision and that’s it, and then it’s over just as fast as it had began.

I’ve said this story a billion times over the years, but my fondest memory was boarding the ship from Freeport to Butcherblock Mountains. Grab a few stacks of mead and set sail!! Once you zone over into the Ocean of Tears you start pounding those brews back as fast as you can click. When I hit maximum drunkenness I would start doing laps around the top level of the ship. If I made it to BB then I was awesome, but the majority of the time I would slip and fall off the side of the ship and be stranded at sea and watch the ship sail away, drunkenly swearing at it. I’d play that game with friends too, we had so much fun.

But I’m probably in the very very very very very small minority who either remember that or would ever want that back.

Evolve or die right?

I miss challenging and difficult games. However, I feel there’s a difference between challenge and punishment. Challenge should motivate me to try again when I fail. Losing gear and experience is likely to just make me think I can’t be bothered to try again because the risk is too high.

I very much miss the game design of the late 80s and early 90s, when actually finishing a game was not a given, but something you earned from playing well. Your reward for playing well was seeing more of the game. I can think of countless games I never even close to completed because they were so difficult, and that’s exactly why I loved them.

There’s an obsession today with the idea that everyone should see everything, however badly they play. It’s a horrible design philosophy – these are games, not movies – and it’s akin to demanding to be crowned champion of Wimbledon merely because you pay the membership fee.

EATtheDEAD.4678

psshh.. kitten please. my house is made of steel. my attitude is bitter not bad, I’ve been part of this genre of games since it started and all I’ve seen since WoW has been poor attempts at recreating WoW.This game doesn’t really fall into that category to me considering what it has to offer but the lack of death consequences as the op was stating is something I can agree on. And agree on with any mmo post-WoW.Anyone unable to see that is either blind or stupid. If I had been used to drinking the finest Whiskey and then someone handed me a glass of Whiskey that had been watered down with a handful of ice I’d be like WTF IS THIS?! That’s pretty much whats been happening yearly since WoW wkitten out Blizzard’s womb.

Your house is made of steel? What the the heck are you talking about? have you toa a condition that causes you to spout random gibberish? :S or are you claiming to live in a storage container?

Bitterness, is somewhat understandable, I don’t remember disagreeing with you TOTALLY just with your delivery method and attitude, which is counter productive and just serves to paint you as a poor sport who shouldn’t BE listened to, that’s all.

Also the attitude is DEFINITELY indicative of a WoW player, who has had all consequences of their actions and attitudes removed to the point where they simply cannot have a decent conversation without acting like the most anti-social arrogant sod in history, I’m not blaming you just that again, you’re coming across REALLY badly when you COULD be making good points and promoting discussion,
please don’t claim that WoW is even close to it’s roots anymore, it’s THE biggest example of a game that long since sold it’s own soul and is self cannibalising it’s own good name as we speak, WoW will never die, because it’s a zombie that’s real life functions stopped when activision decided to destroy it with bobby koticks
“exploit all the franchises!” mentality which survives by catering to the most horrid of self entitled, lazy and borderline troll players. All the while feeding them epic loot on a conveyor belt of fail, most players who started wow feel a sense of disgust when looking at wow nowadays, at least those that didn’t accept the failures after the “merger” and move on long ago

That’s NOT to say it doesn’t have some good aspects, it has lots, but they’re so bogged down under the garbage that you can’t even tell anymore once you start to experience the flaws, which is sad really

GW2 has started to finally move away from the tired and now exploited and twisted WoW ideals, and even if it’s not working amazingly well at the mo and needs fixing, it’s still a kitten sight better than the ghettoised mess that is World of Kotick.

Yes, best game ever is dark souls because it is HARD and CHALLENGING and you get rewarded for beating challenges not just farming your balls off easy mode mobs and dungeons…. fair well sweet guild wars you were great while you lasted(lvl1-79)

I do miss consequences in GW2. Be it regarding death of the toon, or generally through the game. Everything is too easy, there is no risk, there are no challenges.

Shared nodes are stupid. Dungeon GY zergs are stupid. Downed state is stupid. GW2 generally being too casual as it is is – stupid.

Again, I tend to repeat this often: GW2 HAS potential. ANet’s mistake is trying (and succeeding) to make it casual.

Of course, casuals will disagree with this, often by representing themselves NOT being casual, but talking for the greater good of other people. xD

Not really, no. I enjoy a challenge, though I do not enjoy losing progress due to other players making it their intention to screw over their peers. That’s not competition or rivalry, that’s just people being jerks for the sake of it.

There was an MMO I played a while back that led people to lose a piece of their equipment, a portion of their total experience and their backpack of supplies each time they died unless they invested in an expensive amulet that prevented losses. The main flaw in this system? Players made it their mission to trap and kill other players through unsavoury and illegal means.

Garenthal.1480:

Not really, no. I enjoy a challenge, though I do not enjoy losing progress due to other players making it their intention to screw over their peers. That’s not competition or rivalry, that’s just people being jerks for the sake of it.

There was an MMO I played a while back that led people to lose a piece of their equipment, a portion of their total experience and their backpack of supplies each time they died unless they invested in an expensive amulet that prevented losses. The main flaw in this system? Players made it their mission to trap and kill other players through unsavoury and illegal means.

Yes that is a silly thing, I and alot of other people just miss challenges, there really is not to many hard encounters in the game all non instance things are zergs and in instances you can zerg as well….which is most often not needed because anyone can pug the unbroken content

Not being a casual player yourself, why do you hang around this ‘everything is stupid’ game? Why don’t you check out games like EVE or Darkfall (?) which are oriented toward more hardcore audiences?

uo was the best mmorpg ever, endless content generated by players, best housing system ever, griefing, risk, thats a true sandbox mmorpg, todays mmorpgs are just grind like bot to get loot, to grind faster, or worse, grind like a bot to get nothing (gw2)

I am a casual player nowdays (little time), but even for me a complete lack of any challenge makes the game boring. Even in tetris I can loose.

Don’t get me wrong – I don’t mean exp or item loss on death. Not at all. But even in games that can be played casually you can be defeated. Only place I can be defeated in is PvP. And when I don’t feel like PvPing, it would be fun to have some even moderately challenging PvE content that has to overcome with wits and strategy. And Events sorely lack this. One doesn’t feel his contribution even matters – it’s just whack’n’slam, rinse and repeat.

But that is not the game design issue imho – it’s that Events don’t scale properly with the ammount of people currently doing them. Maybe they would be hard if like 10 or 20 people were there – I wouldn’t know, cause most of them are overrun with 30-40 people at a time, if not more.

If you are into SF, you could try Eve, I am resting my subscription at the moment for GW2. It can be really gruesome (like having a ship you worked weeks for being blown up in a second just because you jumped into a system with an enemy pvp barricade). But mind you, it feels totally different from most MMORPGs as you are not controlling a character directly, but rather “giving commands” to your ship. But for me, GW2 and that go well together, I like some variety.

Te risk of death was actually a good thing, I played runescape for ages and it had full loot death.

I guess runescape’s very simplistic combat system means it was much harder to die though.

yes I do, the days of Daoc/AC/UO etc etc, Hell levels, class diversity, exp loss level loss, community spirit… learning to play your class, not just demanding free shinys from devs….

Those days are long gone. it’s all about simple fast free an easy today.

bwillb.2165:

Agree about lag, and that was truly frustrating (and still is), but I mean… death doesn’t really mean anything in this game. It’s not “bad”, its just inconvenient. It’s almost as if lack of any understanding of the game and/or you character’s abilities is just… fine. Yet it’s an MMO, so if you , and everyone else you encounter, don’t know anything about anything and just rush in… well, ok then. Just keep doing that and you’ll win eventually.

This is less about needing a harsher death penalty and more about needing content that requires more than just a zerg attack.

Don’t think they can do that in this game without falling into the “Need X class with Y skill with Z Gear” – which then goes against their desired mechanics. Not saying I don’t agree, but I don’t think they can do this while staying true to their goals for the game.

What the game really needs (IMO) is a more progressive DE system. It’s OK to lose now and then. Once players re-learn this, they will be happier players.

A more progressive system will also aid in giving players more content and making it more difficult for bots to continue.

An example of what I mean might be:

Players win Event X several times in a row. Event X begins to spawn progressively more difficult mobs. Vets take the place of Normal mobs for example. If players keep winning it, the Vets become Champions. This continues until players lose.
Now the players get to see the other side of the event chain vs being stuck in the always win state (more content and more difficulty + bots will be backhanded a bit).

Apply this to say, Sheltered Gate. If the Risen had Group Champion mobs eventually spawn to chase the players out; players would then get a run for their money (a challenge). Players would then have to join together to remove the Risen from that camp and hold it till they are shoved out again.

Of course, for something like this to work, Anet would have to lower WP costs as the player base would have to be a mobile as they are in WvW rather than be restricted by costs.

Punishing games still exist (and thrive) today. When I have that itch, I play EVE.

I think if you had to stare at the screen for 15 minutes again to meditate your nostalgica will be gone … instantly.
Sometimes that is the only cure, having to experience it again. Best to keep the memories as they are and not dwell too much on it.

man I miss mana lol. it sucked when you run out of potions and money to buy potions but still, GW2 made me miss traditional mmo structure.

While I do look back and think of these games fondly. Ultima, DAoC etc…
I am also painfully aware that I am no longer the same person I used to be, I have grown older and is now responsible for more than just myself. What that translate into is that I simply don’t have as much time, patience and energy to devote myself into playing games. So yeah, I will bear nostalgic feelings towards these old school games but I wouldn’t play them anymore.

Nowadays, I am simply happy that there are casual games that cater to audiences such as myself. Its all about striking that perfect balance between keeping people challenged and not turning the game into a 2nd job.

I do without question
Every game in the last 8 have either been released as carebear games, or become carebear games because 2nd gen gamers can’t handle anything of difficulty

This game I havent put into carebear status yet but if they continue making the same adjustments similar to last patch it will

I don’t. I re-upped my EQ account once a few months before launch here and I quit playing after 15 minutes. Nostalgia didn’t last long and the reality of how bad the game is overall compared to recent ones coupled with the grind taught me a lesson about “the good old days”.

At any time I can re-up my EvE account. It doesn’t get much more unforgiving as that. I chose not to despite my love of space ships and fleet fights because the game is far too much work for what little enjoyment I can get out of it. I’m reminded of this everytime I miss it and re-up my account and within a month or two I cancel.

The idea of the what use to be… you know, the days of nostalgia… seem all golden and pretty. We can look back fondly on those days. But I assure you, if you played a game like that now, you would be absolutely furious and would uninstall it and demand your money back. Heck, even EQ1 removed corpse runs. You still have xp loss, but leveling is RIDICULOUSLY easy. I think I got lvl 70 in a week of play a few weeks ago.

It sucked having to spend a week… just to get from level 30 to level 31. And that was if you didn’t die too much.

If you want to be punished, go play EvE. Tons of work, tons of time doing mindless repetitive tasks, very little skill involved (until you do PvP), and an absurd amount of risk. Jump into a .4 system, ur dead. Liked that 100 million isk ship u were flying? Its gone too. Doesn’t that feel good?!?

Seriously, you guys need to examine ur S&M fetishes. Games are meant to be fun.

No, not at all. I play games with the same approach as someone that reads a novel. I enjoy it for the fun and experience. More games are casual these days because a much broader audience plays. Games aren’t just for “geeks” anymore, but for everyone who wants to be entertained. The bonus of this is that it’s much easier to play a game today, without feeling like your life has to evolve around it.

People like to bash WoW, for good reason, but I think Burning Crusade was the Best MMO I ever played. I am 26 and I have tried basically every MMO ever. (cept eve, never got into that)

Heroic 5 mans were very challenging and a blast to do with friends, while not taking too long. 10 man kara (before nerfs) was the highlight of my week. BT felt extremely epic, and Sunwell is possibly the best raid ever made.
Plus, you still had to do a good bit of farming each week for potions and food buffs. I liked a bit of old fashioned farming; prefer it greatly over daily quests (and daily achievements)

I am not ashamed to say I miss vanilla and BC.

OP….EQ is still there…and now free also.

So, the scratcher is there if the itch really needs attending to.

I still remember my first MMO. Some dinky little korean title where leveling was a pain and you could pvp anywhere in the world.

When it came to pvp, it was punishing.

There were 3 colors of names in the game. White- standard name. Red name- obtained if you killed anyone with a white or blue name. Blue names- if you killed anyone with a red name.

I of course, was a red name in this game. It stood forPKers, or ’evil’ as many people called it. I recall ganking so many people one day, getting so red, and then dying over and over again to remove it.

I had died so much, my experience levels went negative. I was like -13k exp... and in a game like that.. it was a lot. Probably take 2 weeks of farming to remove it...

On top of this, you also had to build skill points, which was a long and grueling process. If you had pvp turned on, or had a red name... and you died? You could lose days worth of farming...

Do I miss it? Yes and no. I miss the ability to gank anyone in the game, flagged or not. I do not miss the severe punishment for trying to have fun.

Everquest was absolute atrocious for grind and penalties. That model would utterly fail in today’s marketplace. While a higher risk can put a little different aspect on a game but if it causes you to lose days of work people are not going to play it. I remember the days of UO as well and many games before it that had high penalty.

UO was a perfect example of a game that had to adapt or lose it’s customer base because of severe loss on death… I remember stealing peoples keys and robbing their houses of items they saved for months and months. (Ahh the early mean years). Was it fun? Yes, when it didn’t happen to you. Losing all your gear on a death and everything in your home quickly lead to them losing Revenue.

While some aspects of the ‘old’ days I would not mind seeing again at the same time I would not put up with anything that would cause me to lose large amounts of time anymore.

Somebody complained about instant health regen between encounters, but the alternative is a stupid pointless time-sink with zero benefit. Oh, so you get to sit there for 5 minutes instead of 5 seconds before you move on. Yay, challenge.

I found it hilarious someone said that if the game was more punishing, being high level would be impressive. That’s ridiculous self-delusion. Nobody’s impressed with your “achievement”, everybody just thinks you played a lot longer/more than them.

The only time being high level is impressive is if you’re playing a game with Hardcore mode. Without permadeath, advancement is not a sign of skill, just persistence.

Go play EVE Online if you want a punishing game (open world pvp). You die there, you lose all of your equipment, you lose your implants, and everything in your inventory.

The time I spent in EQ will always carry a found memory, I will also remember all the hardships that came along with playing a very addictive game.

Lets face it EQ was new, not many people had this kind of media available to them, it was all pen and paper role playing.
So when I heard it was a online world, and other players from around the world would be right next to me, I could not believe it.

My relationship with my girlfriend suffered, all I wanted to do is play EQ. I would not go with her on weekend trips, I would call in sick, all I wanted to do was get online, port players around for donations, group up, level up. Once at level cap started a 5 night a week raid schedule.

This went on for 8 years, during that time I got married, got a house, and settled down, after having kids I could not commit the time needed to raid, so EQ had to go.

Then came Sigils Vanguard SoH. What a game, it had the feel of EQ but was very casual friendly, I felt like a non smoker cheating, it gave me my online fix, so I was able to manage a family, work and still get online after bed time.

In slides GW2 this is the ultimate game for both hardcore, and casual. I’m still enjoying this game and plan to play it. I can run around with others if I wish.

I’m glad to say I played EQ, It was an experience that may never be duplicated. You had to be there and I’m glad I was.

I don’t miss them.

I think games can be challenging without harsh game play that essentially kicks you in the nuts.

I like games to be fun and I’m not a masochist.

I tend to think that the number of people who actually like miserable gameplay like camp and grind, xp loss on death, FFA PvP with looting, and that kind of thing, are the extreme minority, and trends in game design, purchasing, retention, and population would tend to support this.

That said, I do think many games tend to be overly easy these days, way too many players can’t handle even the simplest of challenge and aren’t willing to try to figure out even the simplest of content, and due to the push for mass appeal and big numbers, the median bar has been lowered to accomodate people who probably should be doing coloring books rather than playing video games.

Death penalties + open world PvP is pretty challenging, and it does force you to learn your class’s skills to survive…but it does have its drawbacks. Especially with lopsided faction populations. I know of one game in particular (F2P) in which our side was roughly 30% fewer in total # of players. Add open-world PvP(where the only place you can level is a PvP zone) and a 5% xp penalty on every death, and you got a giant stalemate.

One side camping the outpost 24/7 spawnkilling, and the other side crammed in the one safe spot doing nothing. I once spent a week never leaving town because I was 99% certain to lose 5% xp in one minute that it would normally take me 4 hours to grind out. That’s not challenging that’s mind-numbingly idiotic.

Now that’s an extreme case, but open-world leveling/pvp should be treated with a lot of caution. Otherwise all you end up with is a tiny elite at the top with no one to kill anymore because they killed everyone else off. Think of it like species extinction vs wildlife management: you want things to kill?…make sure you keep up a healthy population of them then.

Voqar.2349:

I don’t miss them.

I think games can be challenging without harsh game play that essentially kicks you in the nuts.

I like games to be fun and I’m not a masochist.

I tend to think that the number of people who actually like miserable gameplay like camp and grind, xp loss on death, FFA PvP with looting, and that kind of thing, are the extreme minority, and trends in game design, purchasing, retention, and population would tend to support this.

That said, I do think many games tend to be overly easy these days, way too many players can’t handle even the simplest of challenge and aren’t willing to try to figure out even the simplest of content, and due to the push for mass appeal and big numbers, the median bar has been lowered to accomodate people who probably should be doing coloring books rather than playing video games.

That is true. I also don’t miss the death penalty or grinding. I miss challenge though. And I 100% agree that the game become less and less challenging to be more and more successful. That can be seen in GW2 not only in how easy it is to play or do DEs which can almost never be failed, but also in many racial quests. Many of them are simply childish. It all shows the same trend. Not much we can do about it though.

As a more mature gamer, I like it that games are somewhat easier these days. When I play a game, I want to feel entertained, yes, but also relaxed; not stressed or frustrated (there’s enough of that in life as it is). I would hate to go back to the days of the ZX Spectrum, or even the Megadrive, where I was probably only able to finish one out of every ten games, as apposed to four out of five now.

What I do miss, however, is proper risk vs reward balancing. Right now some of the best items come from crafting, which is 0 risk, while uniting Tyria and taking out an elder dragon gets you a few lv 78 greens.

I think that you need the ‘risk’ factor in the games. It stops mindless zerging and play styles and actually promotes actually learning of your character skills, etc.

Now mind you I sure don’t want any grind type of game anymore either…though I do think an ‘arena’ system that WoW had on the Arena realms isnt a bad thing to have.

No, not really, I play games to play a game, not have a job that I feel obligated to “play” everyday for risk of loosing something.

The only game remotely like this that I’ve ever enjoyed was OGame, which I ended up quitting after about half a year both times I played it. Yeah, It was thrilling, but being forced to center my life around it and log in everyday for risk of loosing everything kinda started to get me down after a little while. It was really only after playing OGame that I realized what a game was, and that it was not one. It was simply a job and a time waster, and that is not fun.

want to be punished? play The Secret World for a few hours. After hitting bug after bug, BSOD, other kinds of nasty crashes caused by memory leaks etc you will feel punished.

FateOmega.9601:

Its easy to make it hard for yourself. Just self impose the punishment. Each time you die, you can delete the character or destroy the piece of equipment that was damaged. That way you get to enjoy your punishment while other people enjoy their fun game.

You sir have just won over 9000 internet points. I really like your idea and I think people should do just that if they think there is not enough punishment in the game. Nothing get the blood pumping more then having to delete a toon each time you die. Come on people I’m looking forward to seeing you delete your toon on youtube.

After playing Aion I would NEVER play a game with a death punishment system again. Has to be the dumbest system in existence for a GAME and the people who like it must be masochists.

The worst thing about it was the PvP death penalty. You know what I hated about it? The moment you got the upper hand the person you were fighting RAN AWAY because they didn’t want to be penalized. So my entire pvp experience was either dying and losing experience or gold or having the person I was fighting run away the moment they thought they were going to lose. Horrible horrible system. Never again.

I play games for fun. Not punishment.

Depends on what you mean by “punishing”.

If to recover from punishment I need to grind then: no thank you.

EVE is not the game it once was. I still play an have done since early 05. The game today is becoming mainstream, an they are removing much of the risk sadly.
Now days newbes spam forums demanding free ships, an if they get killed cos it was their own fault, they report people who did it…

The days of the true MMO are fast dieing I think. The currant generation have no ability to handle them.

Punishing MMOs have a tendency to make people afraid to go through the content. I’ve gone through enough of them to see this in action.

Experience penalties for death often leads to people waiting until they are overleveled before they attempt anything that appears difficult. Why go into an area that matches your level and risk dying when you can grind ten levels above and never die. You end up gaining levels faster and more efficiently because you simply die less using this tactic.

Runes of Magic suffered from this. At level 15, you get access to instance dungeons. No one did these dungeons at level 15. Everyone started doing them at level 30-ish because it guaranteed that they won’t die during the instance. The entire community ended up being a bunch of pansies kittenfused to do anything risky.

If games were punishing the developers couldnt get the maximum profit out of the game. Developers dont care how long you play the game they just care about if you buy it period. Thats the problem with game these days. Theyre money making machines and have very little depth or skill involved.

You mean the games were everyone botted to max level because all it was is a mind numbing grind?

Sorry, but if virtual intelligence can get max level even in the “hard” games, the game is not “hard” but time consuming.

Speaking specifically about the change from GW1 to GW2, I miss mission failure. When I’m on a mission and I mess up bad enough that my team and I all die I should lose.

On my personal story I’ve actually intentionally left missions and redone them after I died because, while I know that I can just corpse-march and still win, I don’t want to do that. I want to do it right.

If they want to avoid frustrating people by making them redo a whole long segment they should at least reset the fight. If I’m up against 6 risen, kill 2 and then die. When I revive and come back make me fight the full 6 again. So that I have to actually win that engagement, not just keep rezzing and wear them down.