Guild Wars 2

How about -50% endurance generation for dps focused players. That surely will fix everything. Anyway I hope they add/rework monsters that wont simply go down before they even move and also should have some survivability checks opposed to dps checks.

Bambu.4270:

How about -50% endurance generation for dps focused players. That surely will fix everything. Anyway I hope they add/rework monsters that wont simply go down before they even move and also should have some survivability checks opposed to dps checks.

Don’t see a reason to punish people for their build choices…

…kind of like I don’t see a reason to reprimand people for their build choices.

Bambu.4270:

How about -50% endurance generation for dps focused players. That surely will fix everything. Anyway I hope they add/rework monsters that wont simply go down before they even move and also should have some survivability checks opposed to dps checks.

So we just eat endurance regen food? Or the guardian gives us blocks?

-100% then.

(that was semi-joke btw)

Semi-joke.

And why should players who actually learn the encounters (rather than trying to facetank), figure out proper rotations and time their skills well be punished just because they’re using a stat combination far superior to any other?

Leo G.4501:

Bambu.4270:

How about -50% endurance generation for dps focused players. That surely will fix everything. Anyway I hope they add/rework monsters that wont simply go down before they even move and also should have some survivability checks opposed to dps checks.

Don’t see a reason to punish people for their build choices…

…kind of like I don’t see a reason to reprimand people for their build choices.

But calling them names and being jerks to them because of their build choices alright?

I don’t consider it a valid “build choice” to pick a bad build.

Blix.8021:

I don’t consider it a valid “build choice” to pick a bad build.

but just because it isn’t the most optimal build doesn’t make it bad. I have played many different builds, some were aweful, some were good, some were incredible. Just because it is not a full zerk doesn’t necessarily make it a bad build but trying to get these elitist to understand that is like trying to explain something to a mushroom.

Julie Yann.5379:

Blix.8021:

I don’t consider it a valid “build choice” to pick a bad build.

but just because it isn’t the most optimal build doesn’t make it bad. I have played many different builds, some were aweful, some were good, some were incredible. Just because it is not a full zerk doesn’t necessarily make it a bad build but trying to get these elitist to understand that is like trying to explain something to a mushroom.

It accomplishes the task slower, with needless waste in the form of defenses which can be otherwise obtained from trait or skill choices. Therefore, non-zerker gear builds are bad. Any player who has a set of choices in front of him, the best choice of which has been laid out for him in great detail, and picks one that is not the best choice is a bad player. I do not wish to play with bad players who make bad choices.

But Blix, you might hurt their feelings!

Blix.8021:

If I turned you down for a job because you were not willing to exert the effort needed, it would not be bigotry, it would be a wise business decision. There’s your real-life example. Your “unique goals” are inconsequential and interfere with the broader community’s common goal of completing the dungeon in an orderly manner in as little time as possible.

If you turn up your nose to people who like veggies on their pizza and deface their character because of it, I have to wonder why you even bother going out of your way just to insult them.

Why is this thread still going?

Everyone with a clue knows that for about 99% of PvE, as is, berserker outperforms everything else.

You CAN use anything else. You CAN fight naked even. Most of the PvE is quite easy. But if you’re using anything BUT full berserker you’re underperforming. That’s a fact.

Whether your team is ok with that is a different issue. Not relevant. If people agree to underperform, more power to them, but you are underperforming.

Whether you are good enough to run it is a different issue. If you’re not good enough get better. If you don’t want to get better that’s your call, but you are underperforming.

I wish it wasn’t like this. I made quite a big thread about it, suggesting some changes to make it not so. I wish other roles other than pure DPS berserker were equally useful. I wish. “I wish I wish I was a fish”.

Wishing does not change the facts. As it is, and until certain design issue are addressed, your best performance will always come from berserker or bust. If you’re trying to argue that then you simply don’t know the game well enough.

And with that, I take my leave.

The PVT players may have this thread now.

All the people I run with seem to be relieved that the runs were swift. Pray tell, where are these people who pride themselves on ignorance and inefficiency? I never see lfg posts asking for slow, tedious runs, only posts asking for fast ones. Funny, that.

ProxyDamage.9826:

Whether you are good enough to run it is a different issue. If you’re not good enough get better. If you don’t want to get better that’s your call, but you are underperforming.

This is what I say to myself when I see half the people I work with being overweight or relatively unfit. Whether they are good enough to see their knees or make it up the stairs without losing their breath is a different issue. If you’re not good enough to take those steps 2 at a time without effort at a brisk pace, you can get better! If you’re happy sitting at your desk playing minecraft all day and taking the bus/car instead of jogging/biking to where you need to go, that’s your call. But you’re underperforming.

Don’t give a flip about your age, disabilities or how far you have to go to get to your job/school, you should always strive for perfect health.

Several postings that were against the rules of this forum have been removed. Please keep these rules in mind when posting to prevent this thread from being locked.

Blix.8021:

All the people I run with seem to be relieved that the runs were swift. Pray tell, where are these people who pride themselves on ignorance and inefficiency? I never see lfg posts asking for slow, tedious runs, only posts asking for fast ones. Funny, that.

I’m sure that everyone agrees that a 2 hour dungeon run is no fun but not everyone cares if the run takes an extra 5 or10 min (on any other dungeon than CoF) and our idea of a good run is not measure in seconds. It is measured in good fights and nice saves and an overall fun time. It can be gratifying to know that you carried a bad party through the dungeon and that without you they would have failed completely, even if it took an extra 20 mins. I find those experiences way more fun that a robotic zerker speedrun.

You like your full zerk groups so you look and post for them on LFG and hopefully those are the only parties you join. The rest of us don’t want you people joining our mixed groups and them raging because the run takes a little longer or because we do things a little differently then you are used to or because one guy likes to heal and give us boons while we face tank. We on the other hand will not join full zerk groups cause we either do not have the gear or we don’t like the mentality the drives them.

Leo G.4501:

Caramel Ham.4891:

You then again claimed that zerk players can solo content. In which I replied to you to show me video proof of zerker players soloing ALL dungeon paths.

So what was the point of me asking you to show me proof of a zerker players soloing all content? Its because you claimed that zerker players, if they know the content, can solo anything regardless if their team mates were bad.

Lol don’t get mad at me just because you feel like jumping to ridiculous conclusions.

I mention how zerker players solo content because it requires a duration of combat with a dangerous foe that is likely much longer than the same fight with 5 balanced party members.

So that somehow leads you to thinking zerkers soloing all content then you ask for proof of all content soloed?

First of all, stop being lazy. If you want to see solo dungeons, go find the solo dungeon thread in the dungeon subforums or type gw2 + solo + [name of whatever dungeon you want to see].

And second of all, know what the kitten conversation is about. It’s not about zerkers soloing content, it’s about zerkers surviving encounters. I don’t know where your aimless posts are going, maybe that players wearing PVT gear literally stand around to let zerker players die? What other foolish circumstance are you going to try and put forth to defend zerker stats or to put down as many people that like to try other stat combinations? Spent half a dozen pages trying to pin the blame of ‘selfishness’ on each other, wouldn’t put it past me if you start trying to measure intelligence by what gear someone decides to wear too.

Talking to you is like talking to a wall. It seems like to me you really don’t know what you are talking about.

When in any of my posts did I seem mad at you? I never edited any of my posts for language and such.

What you fail to understand, and perhaps I did not make my point clear, though it should have been obvious. Is that the point of wearing zerker gear is to maximize dps. That usually means as a Warr you stick to the boss 100% of the time in melee only dodging one hit kill attacks.

There is absolutely no point as a Zerker Warr to go range unless the boss fight necessitates that you do so. Like dredge final boss in fractals.

Sigh…it seems like I have to explain everything to you because either you just lack the knowledge of the game or you are purposely being obtuse about it.

Here is the simplest form I can think of of making it as easy to understand as I possibly can:

1) You say zerkers survive content regardless of team.

2) I say not if the team sucks.

3) You then say that zerkers solo content.

4) I ask you to show me a video of it

5) You never do because it does not conform to your point.

6) It does not conform to your point because zerker needs to go range in a lot of the fights, thus nullifying the very point of going full zerker.

So me going down on cof path 1 first boss as a FULL melee because the fight is dragging on forever because my team mates are useless wearing pvt gear doing crap for dmg does not mean I do not know the encounter well enough. If I knew my team was wearing pvt gear and useless traits….then trust me, I would wear my axe/mace and longbow for that fight if my goal was not to go down at all.

I have spent too much time already in this useless thread that anyone who knows anything about pve already knows. It has been a complete useless exercise to even try to inform you about how the game currently works right now. So will vow out of this useless conversation.

Lol, it is a shouting match, accomplishing nothing. I guess I am glad I can choose who to party with in the end….. I love choices….

Caramel Ham.4891:

Here is the simplest form I can think of of making it as easy to understand as I possibly can:

1) You say zerkers survive content regardless of team.

2) I say not if the team sucks.

3) You then say that zerkers solo content.

4) I ask you to show me a video of it

5) You never do because it does not conform to your point.

6) It does not conform to your point because zerker needs to go range in a lot of the fights, thus nullifying the very point of going full zerker.

1. & 2. Then what have I been doing with my elementalist? Yeah, I started out with Valk gear way back when in November/Dec but as I played the content with other professions and got more gold, I got different gear sets including Berserker. About 75% of my dungeon runs have been PuGs.

3. & 4. https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/community/links/Compilation-of-dungeon-solo-videos-1

5. You don’t want to see solo videos. You want to grasp at straws, like the fact some dungeons CAN’T be soloed because you need more than one player to hit switches, activate lasers, suck in ghosts, run orbs, etc.

6. Were you being serious about watching Wethospu’s videos? Half his fights (if not 3 quarters) are pure melee.

As for the rest, I don’t know what to tell you…except Axe/Mace is rather crap. Try a combo of Sword if you need something offensive/defensive. Or just Axe off-hand if you want to run away and spam ranged damage.

zerk supporters know what not zerk supporters are going to say, not zerk supporters know what zerk supporters are going to say, this thread can go on forever but the main points can and will be found in the very first page, this thread should be closed.

I wouldn’t mind if the thread was closed (you can probably report a couple of my posts while you’re at it), if anything I’m just poking fun at the people who seem to have this incessant desire to conquer community and enforce some sort of law over dungeoneering (does that word mean anything anymore?) when this is all just a game.

If there’s one thing I’ve learned in my life, it’s that people generally hate being domineered. So if people hate such behavior, why try to enforce it over a game?

But what will the trolls feed on? ;P

Sad thing this was never about “zerkers” speedruns being good or bad, but about non-zerkers being left alone to play how they want, without being insulted for enjoying the game the way they wish. No one should be singled out for being their own person. GW2 being treated as a speedrun is fine, but not the way everybody play, so everyone who doesn’t subscribe to the meta isn’t “lazy”, a “baddie”, or “selfish.”

There are many great things to say about Berserker’s gears, but one can believe those things without putting others down for not “meeting their standards” because not everybody wants to play under the same standards, even if they could. This is not being selfish, but just playing the game freely and in their own way, exercising their free human right to choose to do as they please, especially since it doesn’t affect anyone doing their speedruns, and therefore it’s impossible to classify (at least logically) as “selfish.”

Is it selfish to be ourselves and like what we like? Should we be clones of each other to be “altruistic” in a game can be played and enjoyed in so many ways?

Julie Yann.5379:

I’m sure that everyone agrees that a 2 hour dungeon run is no fun but not everyone cares if the run takes an extra 5 or10 min (on any other dungeon than CoF) and our idea of a good run is not measure in seconds. It is measured in good fights and nice saves and an overall fun time. It can be gratifying to know that you carried a bad party through the dungeon and that without you they would have failed completely, even if it took an extra 20 mins. I find those experiences way more fun that a robotic zerker speedrun.

You like your full zerk groups so you look and post for them on LFG and hopefully those are the only parties you join. The rest of us don’t want you people joining our mixed groups and them raging because the run takes a little longer or because we do things a little differently then you are used to or because one guy likes to heal and give us boons while we face tank. We on the other hand will not join full zerk groups cause we either do not have the gear or we don’t like the mentality the drives them.

This is precisely what I believe as well. Since I also believe it’s people’s right to like speedrunning, I wish they could be as gracious to just enjoy their playstyle and find no offense with everybody else’s, just because they dared to join a group that is not speedrun orientated. Why join an Argentine Tango milonga if you only care about disco music? And then come and say how “boring” and “wrong” Tango is, because it’s slower than disco? Stay with like-minded people, and there won’t even be a reason to think about Tango dancers. Live and let live, play and let play.

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

Caramel Ham.4891:

Thanks for the advice! I’m still playing to learn weapon tactics, because believe it or not I only know about half the weapons as well as I’d like. Dagger and axe off-hand not at all, sword main-hand in the sense of “this could be cool but I feel too fragile to do this”.

I feel your pain re. dodging, Tobias. Regarding your ranger, don’t forget you can also get some toughness and vitality from your traits, depending on what kind of build you have, and just 5 points in Wilderness Survival will increase your endurance recovery. Sigil of Stamina and Sigil of Energy also help with recovery, effectively making you more dodgy. Although I currently use sword/warhorn, sword/dagger is a combination that gives you a lot of evasion opportunities. If you feel like you’re getting hit a lot while using the sword, you might be getting rooted by the auto-attack. The workaround, such as it is, is to disable auto-attack on sword #1 and you’ll be able to break out of it when needed. Like many other ranger players, I live in hope that that will someday be changed. But once you get used to it, that weapon combination might actually help with your dodging problems, in that it gives you extra evades (although you need to careful with #2 and your positioning, so you don’t aggro nearby enemies or roll backwards into Bad Things). Shortbow #3 is also a straight-backwards evade. And the utility skill Lightening Reflexes will give you an evade that does damage, grants you vigor, and breaks stun. Yes, it is all that, although the same ‘watch your positioning’ caveat applies. Hope this helps.

And to bring this sort of back on-topic, I really don’t think you’re doing yourself any favors with PVT in PvE. I used it in WvW and had a very tanky build, but once I spent some time in Orr again (not even in dungeons!) …wow…I just had to do some freaking damage. Everything took forever to kill. And the longer it takes, the more danger you’re in. Finding the balance between survivability and damage that works for you is key.

Star Ace.5207:

Such an ill-placed comment was stated elsewhere on the forums. That was my fear about ANet appeasing the anti-MF gear crowd-that what they were really opposing wasn’t just MF users being “selfish”, but that only “meta” gear/builds were used, so their speedruns wouldn’t be hampered (did they even stop to think that not everyone even participates on speedruns, and that such a thing doesn’t mean they are “baddies”?)

I don’t mind the MF gear elimination, really. But from there to say that anything that is not Berserker’s is being “selfish”, darn, that’s just intolerance akittens finest.

This is not a troll post, but I am actually disgusted at this, because the “logic” of these individuals is that anything that isn’t what they like is not allowed on their runs. So the solution HAS always been: party with the people that think like you do. MF gear wasn’t “selfish”, it was just another alternative that ANet initially provided.

MF gear builds were somewhat selfish. Any other gear set option adds something to the group as a whole. MF was the only option that did absolutely nothing for the group as a whole.

Star Ace.5207:

And it was viable just because of that reason. Players who bought the gear weren’t “leeches” out to cheat your group. They just got what the game made available to them. If you don’t like certain gear on people, don’t play with them, and find your own groups, period-stop claiming that the use of certain gear is players being selfish, because you have NO RIGHT to judge someone’s character becaUse they won’t use what you would like them to use.

There are a lot of things that the game makes/made available that turn out to not be what was intended by ANet or desired by the community. Just because you CAN do something doesn’t mean you should.

Keep in mind that ANet makes these forums available for people to express opinions on all sorts of game related matters, including gear. According to your logic people DO HAVE THE RIGHT to judge someone’s character.

Leo G.4501:

Caramel Ham.4891:

Here is the simplest form I can think of of making it as easy to understand as I possibly can:

1) You say zerkers survive content regardless of team.

2) I say not if the team sucks.

3) You then say that zerkers solo content.

4) I ask you to show me a video of it

5) You never do because it does not conform to your point.

6) It does not conform to your point because zerker needs to go range in a lot of the fights, thus nullifying the very point of going full zerker.

1. & 2. Then what have I been doing with my elementalist? Yeah, I started out with Valk gear way back when in November/Dec but as I played the content with other professions and got more gold, I got different gear sets including Berserker. About 75% of my dungeon runs have been PuGs.

3. & 4. https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/community/links/Compilation-of-dungeon-solo-videos-1

5. You don’t want to see solo videos. You want to grasp at straws, like the fact some dungeons CAN’T be soloed because you need more than one player to hit switches, activate lasers, suck in ghosts, run orbs, etc.

6. Were you being serious about watching Wethospu’s videos? Half his fights (if not 3 quarters) are pure melee.

As for the rest, I don’t know what to tell you…except Axe/Mace is rather crap. Try a combo of Sword if you need something offensive/defensive. Or just Axe off-hand if you want to run away and spam ranged damage.

I know I said I would bow out of this conversation but I just had to thank you for confirming all my points.

Great advice for my warrior by the way /s.

Lates.

Ashen.2907:

Star Ace.5207:

Such an ill-placed comment was stated elsewhere on the forums. That was my fear about ANet appeasing the anti-MF gear crowd-that what they were really opposing wasn’t just MF users being “selfish”, but that only “meta” gear/builds were used, so their speedruns wouldn’t be hampered (did they even stop to think that not everyone even participates on speedruns, and that such a thing doesn’t mean they are “baddies”?)

I don’t mind the MF gear elimination, really. But from there to say that anything that is not Berserker’s is being “selfish”, darn, that’s just intolerance akittens finest.

This is not a troll post, but I am actually disgusted at this, because the “logic” of these individuals is that anything that isn’t what they like is not allowed on their runs. So the solution HAS always been: party with the people that think like you do. MF gear wasn’t “selfish”, it was just another alternative that ANet initially provided.

MF gear builds were somewhat selfish. Any other gear set option adds something to the group as a whole. MF was the only option that did absolutely nothing for the group as a whole.

Star Ace.5207:

And it was viable just because of that reason. Players who bought the gear weren’t “leeches” out to cheat your group. They just got what the game made available to them. If you don’t like certain gear on people, don’t play with them, and find your own groups, period-stop claiming that the use of certain gear is players being selfish, because you have NO RIGHT to judge someone’s character becaUse they won’t use what you would like them to use.

There are a lot of things that the game makes/made available that turn out to not be what was intended by ANet or desired by the community. Just because you CAN do something doesn’t mean you should.

Keep in mind that ANet makes these forums available for people to express opinions on all sorts of game related matters, including gear. According to your logic people DO HAVE THE RIGHT to judge someone’s character.

We have the right to do whatever as long as it doesn’t infringes other people’s rights. I “can” tell you an unholy insult, but it’s wrong, because it’s not fair nor appropriate. My “right” to insult you doesn’t justify that you will be insulted unfairly.

Much like people have the right to believe in whatever faith they may have, but to kill each other for the sakes of such faith is violating the rights to life and choice of other people.

Star Ace.5207:

We have the right to do whatever as long as it doesn’t infringes other people’s rights. I “can” tell you an unholy insult, but it’s wrong, because it’s not fair nor appropriate. My “right” to insult you doesn’t justify that you will be insulted unfairly.

Much like people have the right to believe in whatever faith they may have, but to kill each other for the sakes of such faith is violating the rights to life and choice of other people.

1) You cannot insult me. I can choose to be insulted by you. The distinction is very important.

2) There is no, “right,” to have your character not be judged.

3) Comparing killing people over religious differences to, “judging,” another’s character is very offensive, you might say, “insulting,” to me.

Bring in the Gear Check! I seriously hope Anet implement this feature, even though they said they won’t. I won’t run dungeons with players that are not at least half zerker.

Ashen.2907:

Star Ace.5207:

We have the right to do whatever as long as it doesn’t infringes other people’s rights. I “can” tell you an unholy insult, but it’s wrong, because it’s not fair nor appropriate. My “right” to insult you doesn’t justify that you will be insulted unfairly.

Much like people have the right to believe in whatever faith they may have, but to kill each other for the sakes of such faith is violating the rights to life and choice of other people.

1) You cannot insult me. I can choose to be insulted by you. The distinction is very important.

2) There is no, “right,” to have your character not be judged.

3) Comparing killing people over religious differences to, “judging,” another’s character is very offensive, you might say, “insulting,” to me.

Really, there’s no intelligent reason to resort to name-calling/belittiling others (“selfish”/“baddie”/“lazy”/etc.) that don’t play your way (I certainly don’t insult speedrunners, because who am I to do so? Even though there are many that, by their bad attitude, give the good ones a bad name. ) That’s all-and it has nothing to do whether it’s right or wrong to do speedclears in “full zerk” or otherwise, because everybody is entitled to their favorite playstyle. One can make myriad of points in favor of Berserker’s for PvE WITHOUT judging anyone that doesn’t play your way (for instance, to call others “selfish” is not a point in favor of Berserker’s, but a clkitten, unnecessary insult-people “should use” Berserker’s for valid reasons, but not to avoid “being selfish”.)

I am sorry you felt insulted, but I don’t see intolerance in a game any different than the one commonly seen in real life. I would never call anyone names for not being the way I think “they should be”, even if I am completely convinced the way I live and believe is better for me.

And to bring this sort of back on-topic, I really don’t think you’re doing yourself any favors with PVT in PvE. I used it in WvW and had a very tanky build, but once I spent some time in Orr again (not even in dungeons!) …wow…I just had to do some freaking damage. Everything took forever to kill. And the longer it takes, the more danger you’re in. Finding the balance between survivability and damage that works for you is key.

Things don’t take me forever to kill, mind you, just Veterans and Champions. And I can take a few Champions if I’m on my A-game. Veterans seem to have a lot of health to chew through but I don’t have a lot of problems with them. Except maybe Risen Nobles, due to them not being strictly alone.

I like Orr, though, and I’m generally quite survivable in Risen so long as I’m not dealing with 4+ and a Veteran. Abominations are a pain, but do-able. I like the Pavilion less, due to the density of things there. It seems built for group or zerging.

Star Ace.5207:

Ashen.2907:

Star Ace.5207:

We have the right to do whatever as long as it doesn’t infringes other people’s rights. I “can” tell you an unholy insult, but it’s wrong, because it’s not fair nor appropriate. My “right” to insult you doesn’t justify that you will be insulted unfairly.

Much like people have the right to believe in whatever faith they may have, but to kill each other for the sakes of such faith is violating the rights to life and choice of other people.

1) You cannot insult me. I can choose to be insulted by you. The distinction is very important.

2) There is no, “right,” to have your character not be judged.

3) Comparing killing people over religious differences to, “judging,” another’s character is very offensive, you might say, “insulting,” to me.

Really, there’s no intelligent reason to resort to name-calling/belittiling others (“selfish”/“baddie”/“lazy”/etc.) that don’t play your way (I certainly don’t insult speedrunners, because who am I to do so? Even though there are many that, by their bad attitude, give the good ones a bad name. ) That’s all-and it has nothing to do whether it’s right or wrong to do speedclears in “full zerk” or otherwise, because everybody is entitled to their favorite playstyle.

I am sorry you felt insulted, but I don’t see intolerance in a game any different than the one commonly seen in real life. I would never call anyone names for not being the way I think “they should be”, even if I am completely convinced the way I live and believe is better for me.

Killing people because they dont pray the way you do is in no way comparable to judging a character in a computer game.

It might be worthwhile to note that we were not speaking of belittling anyone, but of judging a character. Please reread what I quoted as well as what I wrote. You did not claim that people have no right to belittle others. You claimed that people had no right to judge a character. Technically you were referring to not even the character, but to the numbers on a character’s gear.

You claim that, “Really, there’s no intelligent reason to resort to name-calling/belittiling others (”selfish"/“baddie”/“lazy”/etc.) that don’t play your way (I certainly don’t insult speedrunners, because who am I to do so?" and yet you compare those who judge a series of numbers in a computer game to real world murderers and their ilk ?

Star Ace.5207:

We have the right to do whatever as long as it doesn’t infringes other people’s rights. I “can” tell you an unholy insult, but it’s wrong, because it’s not fair nor appropriate. My “right” to insult you doesn’t justify that you will be insulted unfairly.

Much like people have the right to believe in whatever faith they may have, but to kill each other for the sakes of such faith is violating the rights to life and choice of other people.

Just to clarify, you don’t have a right to insult people on the forums or in-game. It’s considered harassment and your posts can be infracted. If enough of your posts get infracted for harassment, you can be temporarily or permanently banned from the forums.

Where the line comes in is if your judgement of someone’s character can be perceived as an insult and therefore as harassment. Frankly, saying something is selfish isn’t what I’d argue to be an insult. Telling someone they are selfish or judging someone’s actions as selfish might be considered an insult but not really harassment. Now if you feel incessant about asserting your view that what someone does is selfish and continue to imply said person is selfish, over the course of half a dozen pages of posts or across multiple topics, people might construe your habits as annoying and harassment, thereby getting your posts deleted and infraction points gained.

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

And to bring this sort of back on-topic, I really don’t think you’re doing yourself any favors with PVT in PvE. I used it in WvW and had a very tanky build, but once I spent some time in Orr again (not even in dungeons!) …wow…I just had to do some freaking damage. Everything took forever to kill. And the longer it takes, the more danger you’re in. Finding the balance between survivability and damage that works for you is key.

Things don’t take me forever to kill, mind you, just Veterans and Champions. And I can take a few Champions if I’m on my A-game. Veterans seem to have a lot of health to chew through but I don’t have a lot of problems with them. Except maybe Risen Nobles, due to them not being strictly alone.

I like Orr, though, and I’m generally quite survivable in Risen so long as I’m not dealing with 4+ and a Veteran. Abominations are a pain, but do-able. I like the Pavilion less, due to the density of things there. It seems built for group or zerging.

You probably haven’t sacrificed as much damage as I had. The experience you describe sounds much like my own, now. I hope you took no offense, btw. I was trying to be helpful, not to imply that you were in any way incapable.

Ashen.2907:

Star Ace.5207:

Ashen.2907:

Star Ace.5207:

We have the right to do whatever as long as it doesn’t infringes other people’s rights. I “can” tell you an unholy insult, but it’s wrong, because it’s not fair nor appropriate. My “right” to insult you doesn’t justify that you will be insulted unfairly.

Much like people have the right to believe in whatever faith they may have, but to kill each other for the sakes of such faith is violating the rights to life and choice of other people.

1) You cannot insult me. I can choose to be insulted by you. The distinction is very important.

2) There is no, “right,” to have your character not be judged.

3) Comparing killing people over religious differences to, “judging,” another’s character is very offensive, you might say, “insulting,” to me.

Really, there’s no intelligent reason to resort to name-calling/belittiling others (“selfish”/“baddie”/“lazy”/etc.) that don’t play your way (I certainly don’t insult speedrunners, because who am I to do so? Even though there are many that, by their bad attitude, give the good ones a bad name. ) That’s all-and it has nothing to do whether it’s right or wrong to do speedclears in “full zerk” or otherwise, because everybody is entitled to their favorite playstyle.

I am sorry you felt insulted, but I don’t see intolerance in a game any different than the one commonly seen in real life. I would never call anyone names for not being the way I think “they should be”, even if I am completely convinced the way I live and believe is better for me.

Killing people because they dont pray the way you do is in no way comparable to judging a character in a computer game.

It might be worthwhile to note that we were not speaking of belittling anyone, but of judging a character. Please reread what I quoted as well as what I wrote. You did not claim that people have no right to belittle others. You claimed that people had no right to judge a character. Technically you were referring to not even the character, but to the numbers on a character’s gear.

You claim that, “Really, there’s no intelligent reason to resort to name-calling/belittiling others (”selfish"/“baddie”/“lazy”/etc.) that don’t play your way (I certainly don’t insult speedrunners, because who am I to do so?" and yet you compare those who judge a series of numbers in a computer game to real world murderers and their ilk ?

I meant personal character, not the numerical character we play, comprised of stats. Those “characters” we love and play are great, but I was referring to personal character-who a person-the player-really is.

Also, one has to careful because by judging a player character one is often also judging the player. “Your character’s build sucks” can easily be construed as “you suck” because you are at the wheel. There are so many great ways to inspire people to do things better (or at least what you think would be better for themselves and their characters) but telling them “you are doing it wrong”/“you are selfish”/etc. will almost always cause conflict and a negative reaction-not the “positive change” you would have hoped in that player’s playstyle.

Basically, you think you are judging numbers, but numbers are amoral. Numbers aren’t selfish or altruistic. People are or aren’t. I can’t differentiate between you calling selfish someone in a game or in real life, and it would be wrong for both of us to do so without knowing the facts, just based on our biases and assumptions about how things “should be.”

I honestly don’t mean to hurt your feelings, but I really can’t see someone who would put down another for not being like them from a school bully. I can’t stand here and say “it’s OK” for people to be deemed “selfish” when they aren’t, just “because it’s a game” and you are talking about efficiency and data spreadsheets (which often are not universally applicable to all players anyway.)

I think we won’t understand each other, because we are coming from different places and we probably have polar opposite personality types. It’s probably a communication problem. Take care, and don’t feel offended-I don’t think we’ll ever agree on this issue (and I take no issue with you playing your speedruns as long as you leave other people alone.)

Leo G.4501:

Star Ace.5207:

We have the right to do whatever as long as it doesn’t infringes other people’s rights. I “can” tell you an unholy insult, but it’s wrong, because it’s not fair nor appropriate. My “right” to insult you doesn’t justify that you will be insulted unfairly.

Much like people have the right to believe in whatever faith they may have, but to kill each other for the sakes of such faith is violating the rights to life and choice of other people.

Just to clarify, you don’t have a right to insult people on the forums or in-game. It’s considered harassment and your posts can be infracted. If enough of your posts get infracted for harassment, you can be temporarily or permanently banned from the forums.

Where the line comes in is if your judgement of someone’s character can be perceived as an insult and therefore as harassment. Frankly, saying something is selfish isn’t what I’d argue to be an insult. Telling someone they are selfish or judging someone’s actions as selfish might be considered an insult but not really harassment. Now if you feel incessant about asserting your view that what someone does is selfish and continue to imply said person is selfish, over the course of half a dozen pages of posts or across multiple topics, people might construe your habits as annoying and harassment, thereby getting your posts deleted and infraction points gained.

How would you feel if you had a wonderful, selfless friend being accused of being “selfish” for not being like everybody else? That is the problem, and it is a big insult for those who take care to never ever be selfish in real-life AND in-game. It’s wrong to call othersyou know nothing about “selfish” based on your playstyle preferences.

And yes, I do feel calling others selfish for not using “meta” gear IS personal character harassment-many in here seems to think otherwise (“it’s just numbers”), but it’s a violation of someone’s personal rights to be himself/herself.

crystal.5930:

I hope you took no offense, btw. I was trying to be helpful, not to imply that you were in any way incapable.

Nah, I take offense to the people saying rangers can’t do anything. I try to prove them wrong a lot. I also faceplant in the dirt a lot trying, but hey . . . if you don’t try, you don’t win.

Which is why I am trying sword a lot lately and giving it a chance. I’m also honing my stats a bit with replacing Masterwork/Rare accessories (Rings, Jewelry, Accessories) though I’m still not replacing Mad Memories. The light of it is too useful

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

crystal.5930:

I hope you took no offense, btw. I was trying to be helpful, not to imply that you were in any way incapable.

Nah, I take offense to the people saying rangers can’t do anything. I try to prove them wrong a lot. I also faceplant in the dirt a lot trying, but hey . . . if you don’t try, you don’t win.

Which is why I am trying sword a lot lately and giving it a chance. I’m also honing my stats a bit with replacing Masterwork/Rare accessories (Rings, Jewelry, Accessories) though I’m still not replacing Mad Memories. The light of it is too useful

Rangers are great! And IME, sword is pretty wonderful-which doesn’t mean you have to stop using your ranged weapons. We know the problems with sword, but even with these, it is a fun weapon to use-love sword and torch myself because I favor conditions. If anyone doesn’t want your Ranger, just wait for the right group-there are plenty of players who do not subscribe to metas, especially vs GW1, where cookie-cutter builds dominated so much there was little chance for pugs-if they didn’t adapt to the meta-to find any groups besides a Guild.

This thread is why I tend to avoid PuGs. When any game activity becomes a chore rather than a pleasure, I have to question why I’m still doing it.

Star Ace.5207:

… vs GW1, where cookie-cutter builds dominated so much there was little chance for pugs-if they didn’t adapt to the meta-to find any groups besides a Guild.

In GW1 I was a dedicated solo player because I liked to brag that I beat all but three missions Normal Mode without other players. Which? Eternal Grove, Dzaghour Bastion, and Vizunah Square. Two of them because I just couldn’t keep a defense going while spread out (I wasn’t great at the micro), and the third because it was . . . buggy.

When I did join groups not out of my alliance, they weren’t a fan of seeing me as what was essentially a kitten interrupt ranger. Why? I could never . . . EVER . . . land D-shot. I’m serious. I could land Savage Shot all day long, on nearly anything. For whatever reason the timing with D-shot never clicked for me.

Much the same in GW2, the popular meta work doesn’t mesh with my play styles so well.

What it all comes down to is, mind you own effin business, don’t join my party, enjoy your precious build, and shut up about it. It’s just like real life, you mind your own business, hang around with like minded people, enjoy your activities and don’t push your beliefs onto others. If you are going to challenge/question someone about their beliefs, use a little tact and avoid the name calling.

GW2 is a game the is designed and marketed to casuals. Most casuals don’t care about min maxing. If that is a problem to you, then maybe you re playing the wrong game.

Anything less than “Zerk” is like driving 10km/miles under the speed limit…

binidj.5734:

This thread is why I tend to avoid PuGs. When any game activity becomes a chore rather than a pleasure, I have to question why I’m still doing it.

Huh? The exact reason why I go with PUGs is to avoid stuff becoming a chore. With a PUG you never know what you get. Every dungeon run is different, due to having different people in it you don’t know. Sometimes you get a bad party, sometimes you get an awesome party. If you always do dungeons with the same people, or the same team setup, I could see how dungeons become a chore for you. Because the experience is always the same that way.

Milennin.4825:

Huh? The exact reason why I go with PUGs is to avoid stuff becoming a chore. With a PUG you never know what you get. Every dungeon run is different, due to having different people in it you don’t know. Sometimes you get a bad party, sometimes you get an awesome party. If you always do dungeons with the same people, or the same team setup, I could see how dungeons become a chore for you. Because the experience is always the same that way.

Precisely this.

One of the reasons Diablo series was successful was random everything, from maps to party setups.

Milennin.4825:

binidj.5734:

This thread is why I tend to avoid PuGs. When any game activity becomes a chore rather than a pleasure, I have to question why I’m still doing it.

Huh? The exact reason why I go with PUGs is to avoid stuff becoming a chore. With a PUG you never know what you get. Every dungeon run is different, due to having different people in it you don’t know. Sometimes you get a bad party, sometimes you get an awesome party. If you always do dungeons with the same people, or the same team setup, I could see how dungeons become a chore for you. Because the experience is always the same that way.

My only problem is it stopped working like that. Sure, you never know just how things will turn out but as people play the content over and over, they start to bend the AI and suddenly everyone is now pulling a boss to a specific spot and stacking and the battle becomes the same ‘watch for dodges and click attacks’ with only minor variation.

It’s alright but still samey. The concern though is, to do otherwise is viewed as fighting the boss ‘wrong’. Even I admit that to have anyone keep distance may prolong the fight, not because of lack of damage but because of mob moving out of attack ranges. To fight a boss how it’s meant to be fought (in RPG style, you’ve got your melees and then a mix of mid and long range), the fight will likely move around with the shifting aggro, melees moving in to keep in range and ranged moving away to keep distance but that takes longer.

So the crux is fighting a foe wrong (or for speed runners, ‘right’) is faster while fighting naturally is slower. Naturally would have far more variants than fighting it ‘right’ so…I dunno, make it more rewarding if not everyone is meleeing? Or alter mechanics so it’s more punishing the more melees you have on a single foe?

I dunno…the reason I don’t do dungeons or fractals like I used to is because on top of samey tactics, people start enforcing stacking measures in specific places to either flub the AI or so you can pull of the cheap FFFFFFFF!!! when an ally goes down, basically simplifying fights waaaaay too much to find entertaining.

PS: Or, like mentioned by someone, make the dungeons randomize. And not really the layout of the dungeon, but the spawn locations and attacks of the enemies….Like instead of giving Lupicus his 3 modes where he has a set of attacks one after another, give Lupicus 6 modes of attack and he’ll randomly choose 3 out of the six as he transitions from phase 1, 2 and 3.

/sanity on

Playing the way you want is selfish. IF — and it’s a big IF — the people you’re playing with have preferences.

If the group you’ve joined prefers efficiency, then it’s selfish to insist on doing less than you could to foster their goal. If the group prefers letting people play the build they like, it’s selfish to insist that everyone go all-out damage. Is being selfish in a game “wrong?” Probably not — but neither group will thank you for raining on their parade.

There’s an easy solution, and I strongly recommend it. Whichever side of the equation you’re on, don’t play with the other guys and everyone will be happier.

/sanity off

Kit.3986:

Caramel Ham.4891:

Star Ace.5207:

Blix.8021:

Star Ace.5207:

Ergo, you don’t understand that 100% of players don’t play the game the way you do, which was the point of my comment.

If players are not objective-oriented then they shouldn’t join a dungeon with an explicit objective.

I don’t need to say anything more. :P Be aware that the world doesn’t revolve around yourself, though.

So now you are arguing that the point of entering a dungeon run is to not finish it?

mmm…yeah, good luck with that.

The point of even doing a dungeon, for me, is to have fun first and foremost. I don’t care about finishing it in five minutes, although the challenge can sometimes be fun (see how fast you can do it, beat old times, etc…). But if players go into dungeons and only want to be done with them, because they’re such a boring chore to them, then why even play this game? Why not do something that’s fun rather than suck it away from others? And why do something that’s not fun, for you, during your leisure time?

I’ll run whatever builds and stat combinations I want to run. I’m not playing to beat everything in five minutes, or stack in corners so I can just press “1” the entire fight and win. I want a fun challenge, I want to be moving around and doing things, I want to use my abilities and to use the abilities I like. If you can’t stand that type of player then, well, we won’t be grouping.

Additionally, I’m not playing for your enjoyment; I’m playing for mine. If you want your groups to have specific gear and specific makeups then either say so before you grab random people, or get like minded people to run things with you more often. Taking away things, from the game, just to make everyone the same is stomping on other player’s fun and is a rather selfish way to go about things when there are viable alternatives that don’t have a massive blanket effect.

Not everyone plays like you, with the same mindset, goals, intentions or reasons. To treat everyone like they must play like you is… well, why would they even continue to play if it wasn’t their play style? It’d hurt the game in the long run.

This guy hit it on the head for me – I just don’t get the “If we didn’t do it in 3 minutes, 10.2 seconds, then there was no point even starting” mentality. Also worth noting, from my personal experience, that the “zerker or nothing” crowd tends to behave like the angry german kid.

Hell, I run a setup that’s almost pure zerker gear (two bits of knights, to get my numbers where I want them) , and I still can’t stand most of the “pro-zerker” arguments in this thread. “MEMEMEMEMEMEMEME!!!!!! ALL MEEEEE!!!! You cost me a microsecond – you suck! ME!!!! me me ME!”

(apologies to the 3-4 zerker posters who are actually polite and coherent, and don’t just repeat “all zerker or you’re just bad” line.)

IndigoSundown.5419:

/sanity on

Playing the way you want is selfish. IF — and it’s a big IF — the people you’re playing with have preferences.

If the group you’ve joined prefers efficiency, then it’s selfish to insist on doing less than you could to foster their goal. If the group prefers letting people play the build they like, it’s selfish to insist that everyone go all-out damage. Is being selfish in a game “wrong?” Probably not — but neither group will thank you for raining on their parade.

There’s an easy solution, and I strongly recommend it. Whichever side of the equation you’re on, don’t play with the other guys and everyone will be happier.

/sanity off

+1. though you’ll notice that only one camp insists that, and I quote “Everyone should always play zerker, or they are just bad at the game.”