Guild Wars 2

AnthonyOrdon.3926:

We are listening. Not only to what you’re saying but also to what you’re not. The very first living world team actually did the thing some of you have called for. Some 40 or so permanent events were added around the game in our very first content update. They were met with little interest or fanfare. Granted, Halloween may have stolen the show. But those events are still in the game today. I’ve seen very little reaction to them, however, positive or negative.

I saw this and it makes me feel bad but I have to agree , a lot of the extra stuff they added that event I didnt even notice until recently because it was a single line in the updates that they added new stuff to find but what they did add is pretty awesome and Id appreciate more like it continuing forward
Halloween was one of my favourate events and I hope it lasts longer this year

Nick.6972:

There’s absolutely nothing dynamic about events.
They’re renamed quests which you can repeat again if you want to.

Well, except for the quest chains, though very few of them work that way. Only one comes to mind for being really good at it. Yes, Queensdale again, who’s surprised here?

The bandits try to poison the water supply pipes, and if they succeed then there’s another event to kill the toxic oozes and gather samples. (The nearby farm which uses sprinklers will also have the fields overrun with oozes, mind.) If you stop the bandits, they move to trying to blow up or otherwise break the pipes. If they break even one (you can still succeed so long as at least one survives), there’s a follow-up event to repair the broken pipes. Otherwise you have to repair them all.

There are two problems with this – the bandits hang out in a farmhouse the local farmer (the Heart NPC) notes is populated by people who don’t look like farmers and are very hostile. And there’s no reason to go poke at it aside to find a tunnel into the caverns.

I’ll reiterate the problem as I see it: There’s no reason to explore or follow up on this detail from the NPC.

The second is the event chain refreshes seemingly rapidly, so the attacks refresh very often. So really it loses the novelty rather quickly But of course, since this is a low-level area it’s also pretty useful for getting lower characters something to do.

AnthonyOrdon.3926:

Some 40 or so permanent events were added around the game in our very first content update. They were met with little interest or fanfare. Granted, Halloween may have stolen the show. But those events are still in the game today. I’ve seen very little reaction to them, however, positive or negative.

While the reason he gives is probably true, I also think part of the issue there may have been that so early in the game’s lifespan (the Halloween release was only a couple of months in,) most people hadn’t done all the original events enough times to recognize when something was new.

I suspect that a dynamic event release of that magnitude now would be more noticed.

Vayne.8563:

Vanthian.9267:

ArenaNet disappointed their original fan base on launch, so they left after about 3 months (a vast majority of the original top GvG guilds and players).

Anet disappointed a portion of their original fan base…maybe most, maybe not. Certainly they kitten ed off a vocal part of the forums. But how much of the fan base is that?

I’m not sure anyone is qualified to say. I do see a ton of people wandering around with the GWAMM title active.

That’s only 14-15 people, going by an average body weight of 137 lbs.

Anet got exactly the players it wanted. It talked about being an mmo for players that don’t like mmos, but it’s not.

Guild Wars 1 was a game for players that don’t like MMOs. It was a game for people who liked interesting combat and a skill system that made all content with a new set of skills like a new experience. You could get max level and gear in one day. Most importantly, it demanded teamwork and rewarded you with fun, progression through the story missions, or rewards such as armbraces and ecto for cool looking gear.

Guild Wars 2 is an MMO like all others, with a thin coating of Guild Wars lore. The skill system that made gw1 unique was completely destroyed. Teamwork is an afterthought. The focus is now on stats stats stats which comes from gear gear gear. Max level 80. Completely boring world pve with cyclical dynamic events and mobs that respawn behind you as you explore a cave. An avalanche of gear that honestly 90% of which looks bad. Ascended gear treadmill added. Fractals are the only content that is challenging in this game, but it is essentially a never ending excuse to add more gear tiers. Gemstore focus everywhere you look. Emails all the time about gemstore promotions. RNG everywhere in 90% of traits too.

They made an mmo and they’re disappointed in their players? No, I think they got exactly the players they wanted.

Vayne.8563:

Conner.4702:

Only the most blind fanboy would still defend Anet at this point.
The game is a mess on most fronts. From SPvP, WvW to the PvE side. Not properly tested updates and badly designed content is running rampant.

Anyone who starts a post like this doesn’t deserve to be taken seriously. Essentially you’re saying if you don’t agree with me, you’re not only a fan boy, but blind.

No one is saying the game is perfect, but as far as MMOs go, for some of us, this is the best that’s out there. It may not make it a great game, but it does make it the only choice in MMO for some people.

its you who don’t deserve to be taken seriously. Every single day you come on here to prove hundreds of other players how ‘swell’ gw2 is doing when the large majority of this forum/in game agrees that gw2 is lacking and lacking on all fronts from pve to spvp or wvw. So keep telling yourself its the best game ever made all you want but its sadly not the case and with latest updates/patches its only getting worst. I also like how you call everyone troll/hater if they say something negative about gw2, typical forum fanboy.

Nuka Cola.8520:

Vayne.8563:

Conner.4702:

Only the most blind fanboy would still defend Anet at this point.
The game is a mess on most fronts. From SPvP, WvW to the PvE side. Not properly tested updates and badly designed content is running rampant.

Anyone who starts a post like this doesn’t deserve to be taken seriously. Essentially you’re saying if you don’t agree with me, you’re not only a fan boy, but blind.

No one is saying the game is perfect, but as far as MMOs go, for some of us, this is the best that’s out there. It may not make it a great game, but it does make it the only choice in MMO for some people.

its you who don’t deserve to be taken seriously. Every single day you come on here to prove hundreds of other players how ‘swell’ gw2 is doing when the large majority of this forum/in game agrees that gw2 is lacking and lacking on all fronts from pve to spvp or wvw. So keep telling yourself its the best game ever made all you want but its sadly not the case and with latest updates/patches its only getting worst. I also like how you call everyone troll/hater if they say something negative about gw2, typical forum fanboy.

After the last few posts from you, I can’t even imagine you’d try to call me out. I get it. You don’t like the game. That doesn’t mean everyone doesn’t like it. It doesn’t mean most people don’t like it.

I worked on a forum for quite a while…well over a year. And during that time, the negative posts came to outnumber the positive posts. So much so that the positive people left. Many of them are still in my guild, they just avoid the forums. Why? Because they enjoy the game but don’t need the drama.

Forums are here for people to come and vent on. Every MMORPG forum I’ve been on has an excess of negative posts, including WoW. The forums being negative means nothing.

I said in two years you’ll still be here saying this stuff, and the game will still be going along fine. Year one is coming up and if anything the game is picking up steam.

Your negativity doesn’t change reality. You are right. There are people who don’t like the direction this game has gone in. A lot of people.

There are also a lot of people still playing and enjoying the game.

One of us is saying that some people like it and some people don’t like it. One of us is saying almost no one likes it. Which of us is more plausible?

I think everyone can make that determination on their own.

Erasculio – i think that in terms of PvE I may safely narrow down your statement to – People don’t play open world content except for the one that is profitable. Which at the moment is world bosses and champions. Hope I’m not too far away from truth.

Now lets have a look at that from my perspective – perspective of an altoholic with 16 chqracters
How do I play GW2? Most of all I play open world content. I already have 8×80 characters, 3 of them with 100% world exploration and another one getting close.

I think I am perfect example of someone that shouldn’t dissapoint Anet by your standards. I just try to see and explore everything.

But you know what? It’s not that I feel punished for that kind of playstyle. i would rather say – dicouraged. First of all – economically my playstyle doesn’t make any sense. I just live on my loot and gatherings, which is peanuts in comparison to what i might be getting by grinding. Low lvl mats and gatherable mats are (with some exceptions) dirt cheap and hearts gratification used to be laughable – with the inflation now it’s just pure mockery.
Same goes to rewards for map completion – for the time investment (again, in comparison to what you may get by effective ginding) are pathetic.

Now you may say – “it is just your choice, no one is forcing you to make plenty of alts, you may happily grind instead” – and you are absolutely right. It is my choice. It is my playstyle.

but my point is – Anet encourages their playerbase to grind (best time vs reward factor) and discourages to play open world (worst time vs reward factor).

It would be as simple as rewarding map completion best and they would have all of the players spread across the maps instantly. But the way things are at the moment, they clearly don’t want that.

So no, they shouldn’t be disappointed.
Its up to them which areas of the game are most profitable. And they would have been silly not knowing that players are migrating there all the time…

Vayne.8563:

Nuka Cola.8520:

Vayne.8563:

Conner.4702:

Only the most blind fanboy would still defend Anet at this point.
The game is a mess on most fronts. From SPvP, WvW to the PvE side. Not properly tested updates and badly designed content is running rampant.

Anyone who starts a post like this doesn’t deserve to be taken seriously. Essentially you’re saying if you don’t agree with me, you’re not only a fan boy, but blind.

No one is saying the game is perfect, but as far as MMOs go, for some of us, this is the best that’s out there. It may not make it a great game, but it does make it the only choice in MMO for some people.

its you who don’t deserve to be taken seriously. Every single day you come on here to prove hundreds of other players how ‘swell’ gw2 is doing when the large majority of this forum/in game agrees that gw2 is lacking and lacking on all fronts from pve to spvp or wvw. So keep telling yourself its the best game ever made all you want but its sadly not the case and with latest updates/patches its only getting worst. I also like how you call everyone troll/hater if they say something negative about gw2, typical forum fanboy.

After the last few posts from you, I can’t even imagine you’d try to call me out. I get it. You don’t like the game. That doesn’t mean everyone doesn’t like it. It doesn’t mean most people don’t like it.

I worked on a forum for quite a while…well over a year. And during that time, the negative posts came to outnumber the positive posts. So much so that the positive people left. Many of them are still in my guild, they just avoid the forums. Why? Because they enjoy the game but don’t need the drama.

Forums are here for people to come and vent on. Every MMORPG forum I’ve been on has an excess of negative posts, including WoW. The forums being negative means nothing.

I said in two years you’ll still be here saying this stuff, and the game will still be going along fine. Year one is coming up and if anything the game is picking up steam.

Your negativity doesn’t change reality. You are right. There are people who don’t like the direction this game has gone in. A lot of people.

There are also a lot of people still playing and enjoying the game.

One of us is saying that some people like it and some people don’t like it. One of us is saying almost no one likes it. Which of us is more plausible?

I think everyone can make that determination on their own.

I like the game, playing it every day and probably have x2 or more the amount of hours you have, so yes, i like the game ty come again. What i want is for it to get better so i have a good time in a month, 6 months or years. What you want is for gw2 to stay as is because everything is swell for your liking.

Nuka Cola.8520:

Vayne.8563:

Nuka Cola.8520:

Vayne.8563:

Conner.4702:

Only the most blind fanboy would still defend Anet at this point.
The game is a mess on most fronts. From SPvP, WvW to the PvE side. Not properly tested updates and badly designed content is running rampant.

Anyone who starts a post like this doesn’t deserve to be taken seriously. Essentially you’re saying if you don’t agree with me, you’re not only a fan boy, but blind.

No one is saying the game is perfect, but as far as MMOs go, for some of us, this is the best that’s out there. It may not make it a great game, but it does make it the only choice in MMO for some people.

its you who don’t deserve to be taken seriously. Every single day you come on here to prove hundreds of other players how ‘swell’ gw2 is doing when the large majority of this forum/in game agrees that gw2 is lacking and lacking on all fronts from pve to spvp or wvw. So keep telling yourself its the best game ever made all you want but its sadly not the case and with latest updates/patches its only getting worst. I also like how you call everyone troll/hater if they say something negative about gw2, typical forum fanboy.

After the last few posts from you, I can’t even imagine you’d try to call me out. I get it. You don’t like the game. That doesn’t mean everyone doesn’t like it. It doesn’t mean most people don’t like it.

I worked on a forum for quite a while…well over a year. And during that time, the negative posts came to outnumber the positive posts. So much so that the positive people left. Many of them are still in my guild, they just avoid the forums. Why? Because they enjoy the game but don’t need the drama.

Forums are here for people to come and vent on. Every MMORPG forum I’ve been on has an excess of negative posts, including WoW. The forums being negative means nothing.

I said in two years you’ll still be here saying this stuff, and the game will still be going along fine. Year one is coming up and if anything the game is picking up steam.

Your negativity doesn’t change reality. You are right. There are people who don’t like the direction this game has gone in. A lot of people.

There are also a lot of people still playing and enjoying the game.

One of us is saying that some people like it and some people don’t like it. One of us is saying almost no one likes it. Which of us is more plausible?

I think everyone can make that determination on their own.

I like the game, playing it every day and probably have x2 or more the amount of hours you have, so yes, i like the game ty come again. What i want is for it to get better so i have a good time in a month, 6 months or years. What you want is for gw2 to stay as is because everything is swell for your liking.

Yet you ignore the complaint posts I make, because they’re not your complaints. I wonder why that is. I wonder when I agree with someone’s complaint or I complain myself, you take no notice of it.

Could it be I want the game to be better also, but better for me might be completely different than better for you?

zeromius.1604:

ArenaNet, in spite of their grand vision of creating what they hoped would be the greatest MMORPG ever created, did not take human nature into account. People will look for the most efficient ways of getting what they want, which by the way isn’t going out and seeing the world. They’re all looking for rewards. They’re looking for the materialist kind in fact. One of the most common complaints is that doing a piece of content yields poor rewards and isn’t worth the effort. Because for them, the content itself and the sense of accomplishment from completing it isn’t the real reward. People have lost sight of what rewarding meant in terms of actually playing the game.

No they haven’t. Playing the game can be fun, but players still want to know that there is a POINT to what they are doing. Look at Mass Effect 3 as an example. Fantastic game, fun gameplay, TERRIBLE ending. There was massive outcry about it because players spent hundreds of hours across the trilogy and were met with an extremely awful end. That doesn’t mean they didn’t have fun in the process, it means they weren’t rewarded at the end for their time.

Think of a book or a movie that has a terrible ending(or a tv series). All the sudden all the rest of that content seems nowhere near as good because it might have been very entertaining and a great buildup…but if you are left dissappointed at the end, what good was it all?

It’s the same thing here. I might have fun leveling, doing a dungeon, etc…but in the end, I want to feel I got a reward for my efforts. I want to unlock a new skill, get a new skin, get stronger…SOMETHING.

Instead, I do whatever it is and at the end I have a shiny new penny in my pocket. They keep giving us achievement points, but nothing worth getting them for. They give us Laurels, but nothing worth getting them for. They give us ‘living story’ which is complete and utter fluff and filler with no actual impact on the world.

See, one of the biggest problems I think they’ve run into is that in GW1 the end-game was messing with your builds, unlocking all skills, and then doing PvP. In GW2…there really isn’t any end-game. You can kit out your class in a handful of hours and then what? You can’t get any stronger, you can’t get any new skills, and nothing you do in PvE carries over to PvP(not to mention sPvP sucks and has no reward).

If anything, to answer the OP, Anet shouldn’t be disappointed with its players…Anet should be disappointed in themselves from making something completely different than what they set out to. They’ve dived deep into the korean-MMO timesinks, gating, and lackluster loot.

I was playing for fun, achievements and events but, you know, if you want to dress up properly your 8 characters you must farm, farm, farm.

Furthermore, for some achievements like Liadri, you must farm too (those kitten tickets).

So perhaps I’m disappointing Anet with my gameplay, but previously they disappointed me breaking their manifesto. Hence I was forced to adapt my gameplay.

Dynamic events are hardly dynamic. Before launch we were told these would impact the world and bosses wouldn’t just respawn 10 minutes later as if nothing happened.

As it is, bosses do respawn in 10 minutes(sometimes more, or less) and the only way events impact the world is by a junk-selling merchant appearing or a dungeon entrance getting closed…

Perhaps people would bother with events if the rewards weren’t so meager (3s and <400 karma for a max-level event?) and if the impacts would be greater.

“Oh, you didn’t bother defending Nebo Terrace and the Ascalon Settlement? Well, Lion’s Arch is now under siege. All LA waypoints, merchants, banks, etc are disabled until the siege is lifted. The only way to leave or enter the city is by Asura gate. Centaurs are slaughtering all afk players in the city and bandits steal their armor and weapons.”

^ Nothing like that would ever happen. Chasing lost cows and chickens is dynamic enough for Anet.

Well, at least I like to explore. ANet, you got one of us that want to run around like fools and discover every nook and cranny! :-p

Anakita Snakecharm.4360:

AnthonyOrdon.3926:

Some 40 or so permanent events were added around the game in our very first content update. They were met with little interest or fanfare. Granted, Halloween may have stolen the show. But those events are still in the game today. I’ve seen very little reaction to them, however, positive or negative.

While the reason he gives is probably true, I also think part of the issue there may have been that so early in the game’s lifespan (the Halloween release was only a couple of months in,) most people hadn’t done all the original events enough times to recognize when something was new.

I suspect that a dynamic event release of that magnitude now would be more noticed.

A ton of DE’s go unnoticed, there were so many patches where in the notes there would be a single line saying "we added “x” amount of DE’s to the game", no mention of where they are, what zone no additional info of any kind. So of course in the eyes of Anet its going to show lack of interest, no one knows where or when to go somewhere.

Deadcell.9052:

A ton of DE’s go unnoticed, there were so many patches where in the notes there would be a single line saying "we added “x” amount of DE’s to the game", no mention of where they are, what zone no additional info of any kind. So of course in the eyes of Anet its going to show lack of interest, no one knows where or when to go somewhere.

That’s because they want you to explore and happen upon them so you might get slightly surprised…. well hopefully.

Vayne.8563:

Nuka Cola.8520:

Vayne.8563:

Nuka Cola.8520:

Vayne.8563:

Conner.4702:

Only the most blind fanboy would still defend Anet at this point.
The game is a mess on most fronts. From SPvP, WvW to the PvE side. Not properly tested updates and badly designed content is running rampant.

Anyone who starts a post like this doesn’t deserve to be taken seriously. Essentially you’re saying if you don’t agree with me, you’re not only a fan boy, but blind.

No one is saying the game is perfect, but as far as MMOs go, for some of us, this is the best that’s out there. It may not make it a great game, but it does make it the only choice in MMO for some people.

its you who don’t deserve to be taken seriously. Every single day you come on here to prove hundreds of other players how ‘swell’ gw2 is doing when the large majority of this forum/in game agrees that gw2 is lacking and lacking on all fronts from pve to spvp or wvw. So keep telling yourself its the best game ever made all you want but its sadly not the case and with latest updates/patches its only getting worst. I also like how you call everyone troll/hater if they say something negative about gw2, typical forum fanboy.

After the last few posts from you, I can’t even imagine you’d try to call me out. I get it. You don’t like the game. That doesn’t mean everyone doesn’t like it. It doesn’t mean most people don’t like it.

I worked on a forum for quite a while…well over a year. And during that time, the negative posts came to outnumber the positive posts. So much so that the positive people left. Many of them are still in my guild, they just avoid the forums. Why? Because they enjoy the game but don’t need the drama.

Forums are here for people to come and vent on. Every MMORPG forum I’ve been on has an excess of negative posts, including WoW. The forums being negative means nothing.

I said in two years you’ll still be here saying this stuff, and the game will still be going along fine. Year one is coming up and if anything the game is picking up steam.

Your negativity doesn’t change reality. You are right. There are people who don’t like the direction this game has gone in. A lot of people.

There are also a lot of people still playing and enjoying the game.

One of us is saying that some people like it and some people don’t like it. One of us is saying almost no one likes it. Which of us is more plausible?

I think everyone can make that determination on their own.

I like the game, playing it every day and probably have x2 or more the amount of hours you have, so yes, i like the game ty come again. What i want is for it to get better so i have a good time in a month, 6 months or years. What you want is for gw2 to stay as is because everything is swell for your liking.

Yet you ignore the complaint posts I make, because they’re not your complaints. I wonder why that is. I wonder when I agree with someone’s complaint or I complain myself, you take no notice of it.

Could it be I want the game to be better also, but better for me might be completely different than better for you?

I’m sorry for not reading every fanboyish comment you’ve made on this thread and hundreds others. Your kind of complaints aren’t even real complaints but preferences. You don’t have any complaints for anet adding casual jumping puzzles/Winnie the Pooh kind of mini games when the community is asking themselves where the F is anet going with this crap. All you say is “i like this” “i like that but would’ve preferred it a little bit differently”, that’s not complaining, that’s telling yourself X content is good because its gw2 and saying something mean about gw2 isn’t allowed.

Nuka Cola.8520:

Vayne.8563:

Nuka Cola.8520:

Vayne.8563:

Nuka Cola.8520:

Vayne.8563:

Conner.4702:

Only the most blind fanboy would still defend Anet at this point.
The game is a mess on most fronts. From SPvP, WvW to the PvE side. Not properly tested updates and badly designed content is running rampant.

Anyone who starts a post like this doesn’t deserve to be taken seriously. Essentially you’re saying if you don’t agree with me, you’re not only a fan boy, but blind.

No one is saying the game is perfect, but as far as MMOs go, for some of us, this is the best that’s out there. It may not make it a great game, but it does make it the only choice in MMO for some people.

its you who don’t deserve to be taken seriously. Every single day you come on here to prove hundreds of other players how ‘swell’ gw2 is doing when the large majority of this forum/in game agrees that gw2 is lacking and lacking on all fronts from pve to spvp or wvw. So keep telling yourself its the best game ever made all you want but its sadly not the case and with latest updates/patches its only getting worst. I also like how you call everyone troll/hater if they say something negative about gw2, typical forum fanboy.

After the last few posts from you, I can’t even imagine you’d try to call me out. I get it. You don’t like the game. That doesn’t mean everyone doesn’t like it. It doesn’t mean most people don’t like it.

I worked on a forum for quite a while…well over a year. And during that time, the negative posts came to outnumber the positive posts. So much so that the positive people left. Many of them are still in my guild, they just avoid the forums. Why? Because they enjoy the game but don’t need the drama.

Forums are here for people to come and vent on. Every MMORPG forum I’ve been on has an excess of negative posts, including WoW. The forums being negative means nothing.

I said in two years you’ll still be here saying this stuff, and the game will still be going along fine. Year one is coming up and if anything the game is picking up steam.

Your negativity doesn’t change reality. You are right. There are people who don’t like the direction this game has gone in. A lot of people.

There are also a lot of people still playing and enjoying the game.

One of us is saying that some people like it and some people don’t like it. One of us is saying almost no one likes it. Which of us is more plausible?

I think everyone can make that determination on their own.

I like the game, playing it every day and probably have x2 or more the amount of hours you have, so yes, i like the game ty come again. What i want is for it to get better so i have a good time in a month, 6 months or years. What you want is for gw2 to stay as is because everything is swell for your liking.

Yet you ignore the complaint posts I make, because they’re not your complaints. I wonder why that is. I wonder when I agree with someone’s complaint or I complain myself, you take no notice of it.

Could it be I want the game to be better also, but better for me might be completely different than better for you?

I’m sorry for not reading every fanboyish comment you’ve made on this thread and hundreds others. Your kind of complaints aren’t even real complaints but preferences. You don’t have any complaints for anet adding casual jumping puzzles/Winnie the Pooh kind of mini games when the community is asking themselves where the F is anet going with this crap. All you say is “i like this” “i like that but would’ve preferred it a little bit differently”, that’s not complaining, that’s telling yourself X content is good because its gw2 and saying something mean about gw2 isn’t allowed.

I complained quite loudly against RNG in cash shop boxes. What, that doesn’t count? There’s more, but it’s not like you’d listen.

On the other hand there are your posts. You know the ones where you insult the game, and say nothing constructive at all.

You say you like the game and you want it to be better. I think people should go and look at your post history. A good portion of them are just saying how bad the game is…it’s not constructive to the game, it’s not helpful to the game. It’s just you expressing your opinion like it’s some kind of fact.

RGN in gem store is such an obvious complaint that it shouldn’t even be considered as one, its absolute ripoff done legally. Its the kind of things you would see in trash korean f2p titles, not in a hugely popular and successful title like gw2. Also, no1 is forcing you to waste you dollars/gold for keys. in 11 months i haven’t bought a single key nor will i ever buy them for their outrageous price because no one is forcing me to. When it comes to their casual facebook mini games kind of patches im kinda forced to accept them instead of a new dungeon and i can’t do anything about that. If i ignore their winnie the pooh mini games it means every single month i get nothing new for me to experience and this is where gw2 gets old because its wvw or you just don’t play the game at all.

Nuka Cola.8520:

RGN in gem store is such an obvious complaint that it shouldn’t even be considered as one, its absolute ripoff done legally. Its the kind of things you would see in trash korean f2p titles, not in a hugely popular and successful title like gw2. Also, no1 is forcing you to waste you dollars/gold for keys. in 11 months i haven’t bought a single key nor will i ever buy them for their outrageous price because no one is forcing me to. When it comes to their casual facebook mini games kind of patches im kinda forced to accept them instead of a new dungeon and i can’t do anything about that. If i ignore their winnie the pooh mini games it means every single month i get nothing new for me to experience and this is where gw2 gets old because its wvw or you just don’t play the game at all.

But from your point of view, people who don’t care much for dungeons and like mini-games are just blind fan boys, no matter what else they say. Because not everyone loves dungeons. I could be quite happy without ever seeing another dungeon again. I didn’t come to this game for dungeons. I came for other reasons.

Just because I want something out of a game you don’t, doesn’t make me blind, nor does it make the kind of things I’m campaigning for worthless.

Vayne.8563:

Nuka Cola.8520:

RGN in gem store is such an obvious complaint that it shouldn’t even be considered as one, its absolute ripoff done legally. Its the kind of things you would see in trash korean f2p titles, not in a hugely popular and successful title like gw2. Also, no1 is forcing you to waste you dollars/gold for keys. in 11 months i haven’t bought a single key nor will i ever buy them for their outrageous price because no one is forcing me to. When it comes to their casual facebook mini games kind of patches im kinda forced to accept them instead of a new dungeon and i can’t do anything about that. If i ignore their winnie the pooh mini games it means every single month i get nothing new for me to experience and this is where gw2 gets old because its wvw or you just don’t play the game at all.

But from your point of view, people who don’t care much for dungeons and like mini-games are just blind fan boys, no matter what else they say. Because not everyone loves dungeons. I could be quite happy without ever seeing another dungeon again. I didn’t come to this game for dungeons. I came for other reasons.

Just because I want something out of a game you don’t, doesn’t make me blind, nor does it make the kind of things I’m campaigning for worthless.

Gladdly mini games/jumping puzzles isn’t something that’s missing in gw2 so be happy with your mini crap. Dungeons on the other hand aren’t just boring (and this is not coming from me personally but almost everyone who enjoys challenging content) but there’s nothing new added to them, still is a glitch fest 1y later and one month can’t go by anet nerfing/adding more spongebob enemies that take 5 minutes to kill instead of being challenging and have a mechanic to each new enemy. Another thing, you’re 51, im 25, at your age i don’t expect you to like challenging stuff so yeaah i see why enjoy mini games instead of end game.

Nuka Cola.8520:

Vayne.8563:

Nuka Cola.8520:

RGN in gem store is such an obvious complaint that it shouldn’t even be considered as one, its absolute ripoff done legally. Its the kind of things you would see in trash korean f2p titles, not in a hugely popular and successful title like gw2. Also, no1 is forcing you to waste you dollars/gold for keys. in 11 months i haven’t bought a single key nor will i ever buy them for their outrageous price because no one is forcing me to. When it comes to their casual facebook mini games kind of patches im kinda forced to accept them instead of a new dungeon and i can’t do anything about that. If i ignore their winnie the pooh mini games it means every single month i get nothing new for me to experience and this is where gw2 gets old because its wvw or you just don’t play the game at all.

But from your point of view, people who don’t care much for dungeons and like mini-games are just blind fan boys, no matter what else they say. Because not everyone loves dungeons. I could be quite happy without ever seeing another dungeon again. I didn’t come to this game for dungeons. I came for other reasons.

Just because I want something out of a game you don’t, doesn’t make me blind, nor does it make the kind of things I’m campaigning for worthless.

Gladdly mini games/jumping puzzles isn’t something that’s missing in gw2 so be happy with your mini crap. Dungeons on the other hand aren’t just boring (and this is not coming from me personally but almost everyone who enjoys challenging content) but there’s nothing new added to them, still is a glitch fest 1y later and one month can’t go by anet nerfing/adding more spongebob enemies that take 5 minutes to kill instead of being challenging and have a mechanic to each new enemy. Another thing, you’re 51, im 25, at your age i don’t expect you to like challenging stuff so yeaah i see why enjoy mini games instead of end game.

I’ve beaten every dungeon in the game and don’t much of the challenging stuff too. I did everything in Guild Wars 1 including DOA in hard mode. I’m not sure why you think I don’t like challenging stuff. I simply don’t REQUIRE challenging stuff, which is where we differ.

No matter how much challenging content is put into the game, it never really stays challenging for long. Like any game, once you figure out how to beat it, it’s beaten and only gets easier. People find ways around stuff. They find easier ways to beat stuff. And Anet spends its time plugging holes. The hard core crowd wants more, ever more, but nothing ever lasts any length of time. Maybe something like the fractals.

So instead of having a disgruntled audience that will be disgruntled again 2 weeks after something is released, Anet is focusing on an audience they can entertain.

Some would call that smart business. It’s true they might lose people like you..and I can even sympathize with your plight. But it’s still a business and still needs to make money. In fact, they’re responsible to their investors TO make money.

Sorry you’re not happy but it’s not my fault. I also want the game to succeed. I don’t necessarily it will succeed better putting in more hard core stuff for people who crave challenge.

It’s sad, isn’t it?

Before Guild Wars 2 was even in closed beta stage, people were BRAGGING about it’s dynamic event system and how there was 1,500 events throughout the game world. People described Guild Wars 2 as an, “Explorer’s game” and thus the mindless YouTube fanboy nonsense began, people claiming this was the one true “WoW killer” based on the dynamic event system alone. Guild Wars 2 isn’t perfect, but I think it delivered what was promised.

People assumed all 1,500 dynamic events, if that’s the actual number of dynamic events in the game, were all different. Everyone assumed that each zone wasn’t flooded with escort missions and capture point events, but that is what was delivered to the table. Then people started asking themselves, “Hey I already did this the last two zones, why should I do it in this one? What will I get for doing this event, a level 30 fine trinket that’s nothing compared to this one I got from crafting? A transformation tonic that costs 1s per use, when it only lasts 5 minutes? Another fine armor piece or weapon? If I do this event, nothing is going to be saved. That village/haven will be attacked again in the next 5 minutes and nothing will happen if I fail the event. There’s another village/haven a couple of minutes away if this one is overwhelmed by monsters.”

I’m not going to apologize because it is what it is, repetitive content with no consequence for failure. ArenaNet did wonderfully in the “mini dungeon” department though, I loved the Forsaken Halls, the Tears of Itlaocol, and Vexa’s Lab! I also find guild missions super fun and rewarding at the same time seriously ArenaNet, you did great. I also like the chains in Orr, like the chain of events from Fort Trinity to Orr and all of the other events that lead to the world bosses of Orr, but when Ascended-rarity weapons and armor come out, I fear the appeal for the exotic rewards these events give will dwindle, doesn’t make it less fun though! I’m not a fan of the "capture this area, escort this NPC to that other point of interest, kill that veteran boss, collect these mushrooms and turn them in to this NPC, and defeat this champion by yourself” when there is no consequences for failing such events.

Remember that little part of the manifesto, ArenaNet? When the big bridge in Snowden Drifts collapses due to a failed dynamic event?

Make dynamic events mean something. Kill all the merchants in the zone, block access to vistas/points of interest/heart quests/skill points if dynamic events fail, destroy bridges and make it so that the only way across is by swimming in a lake full of overpowered champions that will wreck you as soon as you slip a toe into the lake, flood large portions of the zone with armies of minions that scout around in separate groups like they did in GW1 if a group of veterans completed their ritual, turn villages against eachother and make the player choose which village to support so that the when the event is done the opposing village will become hostile to your presence, attacking you instead of providing the basic services, etc. There so much potential for this, so much potential to add Danger into these zones as well as adding worthwhile rewards for completing them! You already brought people back into zones with champion loot bags, just hide the champions in dynamic events that will turn the area into a battle and the zone into a disaster if such events fail.

World bosses are also too predictable, I made a thread on the suggestion forums about those!

They can’t ever say so, but yes, I imagine they’re tremendously disappointed, at the very least by the forum crowd. I think they understand that the forum crowd is a very small minority of total players, but it’s a very small minority with a very large majority of the feedback being provided publicly.

I imagine they’re also disappointed that the EQ-style MMORPG crowd is so addicted to their shinies that they’re completely unwilling to have fun with a fun game.

Not an enviable spot for them to be in.

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

digiowl.9620:

But discovering that some centaurs are rampaging just beyond the next height is virtually impossible unless one take the time to climb said height.

I’m gonna go out on a limb and say that’s kinda harder if it’s just centaurs because they’re less notable than a giant gaudy airship swooping to park itself over a land feature and start shelling the balloon stands

The good news is there are NPCs in a lot of areas which will run up to players and go “hey, got a moment?” to let them know there’s an event going on not far from there. The bad news is you still don’t often find events without that help or randomly wandering into one.

The problem with this is if I were an NPC and centaurs were attacking my home I would be running around yelling “AAARRrrrrgggghhhh! Centaurs! Help!” rather than, “Excuse me, do you have a moment?” And after a group of people saved my kitten I would give them whatever they needed from my home, not toss them a nickel.

MMO’s need rewards, variety, and fun. If any of these 3 fall out of balance the game can fall over like a stool.

For years before GW2, I thought to myself, “If I could somehow make an MMO, I’d make one completely focused on having fun without a dumb grind!” Arenanet actually got the chance to do that, but they quickly discovered that it just doesn’t work, and they had to start adding grindy mechanics in order to retain a playerbase.

I don’t blame the players, though. A successful MMO has to provide players with thousands of hours of entertainment. I don’t care how amazing your game’s content or systems are, it’s going to get boring after thousands of hours. The grind is what keeps people interested.

sPvP is unpopular because the class system is shallow and extremely limited, especially compared to the 1st game.

Dynamic events are not dynamic. They are rather boring as well.

The players are disappointed with Anet. It’s that simple.

Lymain.6723:

For years before GW2, I thought to myself, “If I could somehow make an MMO, I’d make one completely focused on having fun without a dumb grind!” Arenanet actually got the chance to do that, but they quickly discovered that it just doesn’t work, and they had to start adding grindy mechanics in order to retain a playerbase.

Guild Wars 1 did it wonderfully. Perhaps they should not have completely abandoned everything that made it fun.

OP: good question. Maybe…

But why put burgers and fries on the menu if you want people to check out your exquisite menu.

Again, I point to the amount of rewards and the number of different rewards in the game as the problem. If all rewards were streamlined with only a handful of currencies, people might play the game as it was meant to rather than grind and farm specific spots for stuff.

Right now people are farming the pavilion for the minis, and T6 mats that are dropping. Destroyer farming for lodestones… Not because the content is fun.

I know we need materials for crafting, and high level mats for legendaries. And thats fine. But we dont need laurels, relics, pristine relics, ectos as currency, commendations, etc.

I play Firefall on and off. You can do “ANYTHING” in game and get the same rewards: XP, currency, and resources(for crafting). And thats all you need in the game. So you don’t feel like you are missing out on anything if you are doing something you want to do.

I think arenanet forgot about this core concept. Not too late to change it.

Gohlar.3671:

sPvP is unpopular because the class system is shallow and extremely limited, especially compared to the 1st game.

Dynamic events are not dynamic. They are rather boring as well.

The players are disappointed with Anet. It’s that simple.

Lymain.6723:

For years before GW2, I thought to myself, “If I could somehow make an MMO, I’d make one completely focused on having fun without a dumb grind!” Arenanet actually got the chance to do that, but they quickly discovered that it just doesn’t work, and they had to start adding grindy mechanics in order to retain a playerbase.

Guild Wars 1 did it wonderfully. Perhaps they should not have completely abandoned everything that made it fun.

SOME players are disappointed in Anet. Not players. Some players.

Without that qualifier, what you said is only partially true.

I played games like WoW and Rift for gear grind, treadmill, raiding, rewards, rewards, rewards. Not because I was in love with the content very much, but because I was playing with a group of friends tackling difficult challenges. Healing in raids was/is very fun to me.

During closed betas, I perceived GW2 as an explorers paradise, cosmetic grind, with the ultimate goal of getting a legendary some day. Mix in some WvW, and there you have it. But mostly, Id be logging into my max level character some day, finding myself alone in some forest and just..run in one direction until I stumble upon some content, some event. And hope to have a meaningful contribute to the success/failure of that event, and let it be known if I succeeded or failed…was the town saved or are the NPCs dead because I failed? Is the town gone for a little while until an event kicks off to reclaim it. Was there true repercussions to failure, other than an event immediately kicking off to retake it.

So thats how I perceived the game. But with all of the rewards, minis, celebrations…the game has changed from intrinsically having fun to going after the closest carrot.

Maybe thats not arenanets fault, maybe partially. But this isnt the game I perceived.

When the next game comes along, TESO and eventually EQ Next, I’ll have different expectations for those as well and see if the games live up. I’ll probably leave GW2 for them, not sure about how TESO will hold up but EQ next definately will. I expect a gear grind from them, a treadmill, a grindfest and thats OK for THOSE games. I didnt think it was OK for GW2. Different expectations and I FEEL let down by it.

Shouldn’t the title be turned around.How can they be disappointed in the players.They are making money hand over fist for the crap they are putting out.How many positive threads as opposed to the negative do you see on the forums.And when a player voices his or her opinion,the thread is closed.They keep throwing players little tidbits then taking them away.It is the players that should be disappointed.

Deadcell.9052:

Anakita Snakecharm.4360:

AnthonyOrdon.3926:

Some 40 or so permanent events were added around the game in our very first content update. They were met with little interest or fanfare. Granted, Halloween may have stolen the show. But those events are still in the game today. I’ve seen very little reaction to them, however, positive or negative.

While the reason he gives is probably true, I also think part of the issue there may have been that so early in the game’s lifespan (the Halloween release was only a couple of months in,) most people hadn’t done all the original events enough times to recognize when something was new.

I suspect that a dynamic event release of that magnitude now would be more noticed.

A ton of DE’s go unnoticed, there were so many patches where in the notes there would be a single line saying "we added “x” amount of DE’s to the game", no mention of where they are, what zone no additional info of any kind. So of course in the eyes of Anet its going to show lack of interest, no one knows where or when to go somewhere.

This. The new DE stuff was basically “ninja’d” in, with no fanfare from Anet to introduce or promote.

Contrast that to the sheer amount of Achievements, visual garbage, mails, and carrots given to promote their second rate “Living Stories”.

Hardly fair to compare.

Boy this is a great thread. 9/10 would read again.

My two cents is that I think the “every two weeks” update plan is too much for the budget/time they have allotted. This results in very thin updates that have a lot of “repeat 100 of this” type content, because otherwise they wouldn’t have enough to say they added something substantial. The updates would be better if they dropped what was filler and kept just the strongest stuff.

I think the two week plan is just not going to work. Personally, I would rather the company go completely dark for a year and focus on an proper expansion and then I would surely buy that. I think most GW2 players would too. It worked for GW1.
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Consider this, we are almost 1 year from the release of GW2.

• 1 year from the release of Prophecies(GW1) was Factions

• Only 6 months from the release of Factions was Nightfall

• 10 months after the release of Nightfall was EoTN

^^^ That is why I became such a fan of Anet as a developer. Their record of consistent, solid updates to the IP was second to none. So what if it wasn’t every two weeks? The summation of these small multitudinous updates, which GW2 has added to the game in one year’s time, does not expand upon the franchise as much as Factions did with the same development time.

And, by the way, they still managed to do holiday events and added a new dungeon(Sorrow’s Furnace) just 4 months after release while working on Factions. So it wasn’t like they had to totally abandon Prophecies for a year.

That development strategy is the foundation upon which the franchise was built. That is what brought the success to even enable GW2 to be made in the first place. It is unfortunate to see Anet straying from that.

Conner.4702:

Only the most blind fanboy would still defend Anet at this point.
The game is a mess on most fronts. From SPvP, WvW to the PvE side. Not properly tested updates and badly designed content is running rampant.

Yep, and they’re clearly not listening to feedback with open ears.
In the vast majority of their comments and interviews, you can see all the humbleness they started out with is GONE. ….there’s being a sensitive artist that also just so happens to have built up thick skin, and then there’s what they have…. Only way to describe I think would be: “a Kormirian Complex”. (soon to be replaced by the Trehearnian Dragon Complex).

It’s not nearly as arrogant and pedantic as most god complexes are, obviously it’s following nothing but a Road of good intentions. But Abaddon’s story also started off with nothing but good intentions (and he was seriously popular b/c of it, with almost as zealous a following as Dwayna). … but that’s not how “listening” works. That’s not how a customer service industry works either. You don’t just tune out the criticisms once all the Fanfare dries up and spend the rest of the year building pity-party Festivals for yourselves while the franchise goes down hill. You acknowledge it and then tell people that you’re going to try to improve on that part and then trust them with exact details on how you plan to do it.

THAT ALONE, impresses your Fans a lot more than the actual execution of it. And it keeps them as fans too instead of risking them crossing over into being critics when you keep doing the exact opposite of what they were hoping for. The finished product / execution itself is just there to try to win over the critics. If that doesn’t succeed, you don’t take it personally or go hide in your stupid Ivory Tower again ….Besides, it’s a lot more fun to flip it around and ask the critics what they would have done differently (then laugh b/c they usually don’t have a good counter response).

As with your other thread, I have to sadly wonder whether you’re right.

If DE content takes a lot of work, but few people seem to appreciate it or bother with it, and prefer to farm, Anet aren’t going to bother so much with DEs, they’re just going to go with the flow (e.g. more stuff like CP coming, and a concomitant adjustment to the way the economy works).

I think the game must have been made with excitement and anticipation – here, as opposed to GW1, they made a fantastic virtual world for people to actually adventure in, and what do people do?

Pursue shinies.

It must be pretty disappointing for at least some of the devs that few people appreciate what they did.

Teofa Tsavo.9863:

Deadcell.9052:

Anakita Snakecharm.4360:

AnthonyOrdon.3926:

Some 40 or so permanent events were added around the game in our very first content update. They were met with little interest or fanfare. Granted, Halloween may have stolen the show. But those events are still in the game today. I’ve seen very little reaction to them, however, positive or negative.

While the reason he gives is probably true, I also think part of the issue there may have been that so early in the game’s lifespan (the Halloween release was only a couple of months in,) most people hadn’t done all the original events enough times to recognize when something was new.

I suspect that a dynamic event release of that magnitude now would be more noticed.

A ton of DE’s go unnoticed, there were so many patches where in the notes there would be a single line saying "we added “x” amount of DE’s to the game", no mention of where they are, what zone no additional info of any kind. So of course in the eyes of Anet its going to show lack of interest, no one knows where or when to go somewhere.

This. The new DE stuff was basically “ninja’d” in, with no fanfare from Anet to introduce or promote.

Contrast that to the sheer amount of Achievements, visual garbage, mails, and carrots given to promote their second rate “Living Stories”.

Hardly fair to compare.

It especially isn’t helped by the fact that for one reason or another (players will explore, no reason to give them a means to track this stuff, maybe?) there’s barely anything in the UI to aid the player in hunting them down to do. There’s a really good reason most players went after and confused the renown hearts with dynamic events early on. They expected some kind of UI indicator, and they did get it, but it was so inconsistent they didn’t always realize what was what.

Also, to those saying dynamic events aren’t dynamic, you’re both right and wrong. You’re right in that their core content is not thoroughly dynamic, nor is their progression. You are wrong in suggesting that they are outright not dynamic, however. When compared with the previous model of quests in similar games, they are very dynamic by the basic fact that they will at times proceed regardless of your presence. Along these lines, they will also be encountered at different stages, sometimes presenting the appearance of a living world.

The fact that you’ve played enough to notice these trends and call them out as static content or cyclical quests is merely a testament to your observation and comparison skills. Any notions of them being frequently unique or having persistent lasting effects was setting your expectations a little too high. To be fair, the time it took for release and the ensuing hyping up they had to do to market the game certainly didn’t help that at all either.

1 or 2 of them is Dynamic …. Grenth and Balthazar Temples come instantly to mind just becasue there’s been 2 huge threads dedicated to their completion every day for the last…. 9 months?? …
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/events/Uncontested-Temple-of-Balthazar/first
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/events/Uncontested-Temple-Of-Grenth-2/first

These are indeed “world changers” for a portion of the community and they require what every major Event chain in every zone should have had from the beginning: Multiple Roles for players to fill. Not just Zerg DPS. ….They’ve taken that way too far with the recent change to Subjugator & PlagueBearer wells, but the way they previously failed when people don’t spread out and play different roles, definitely kept it interesting.

The big downside to these multiple roles however… atleast in Grenth’s case, is that if you’re “Wrangling” the Shades, then you don’t even get to TAG the Priest for Credit or a drop chance. …b/c Tagging him means you also have to deal with his AOE’s while trying to also deal with the Shades and that’s just impossible to manage even if you have Stealth. You could single handedly be holding the aggro of up to 30 shades and saving the lives of almost everyone else on the Priest and then not get ANY CREDIT at all (I do every single night ) …but when enough people AREN’T doing that, it fails automatically b/c those Shades eventually saturate every inch of floorspace there with their “massive attack” PBAOE.

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Then there’s the fact that there’s competing zones like Farmsdale…. err I mean Queens, which will continue to hold the vast majority of “DE participants” (using that terms VERY loosely) b/c there’s no setup involved. They just go from Spawn point to Spawn point like it was Everquest. It’s really godkittend sad to watch that sort of content Trump everything else in the game that had so much more potential…. If I was Anet, I’d be really disappointed by that too. (But I wouldn’t take it out on everyone still doing Orr!!!)

People play for the rewards because to them, rewards= fun.

So doing anything that is time consuming, that doesn’t reward you equally in the investment, why even waste time doing it?

Peopl are grinding because they want their legendaries asap, which means finding the most efficient way to make x gold per hour. This means removing the ‘fun’ and do the same thing over and over for x hours to finish up.

That’s the flaw of the game design. All the cosmetic effects you want aren’t rewarded on skill, challenge, team-play or anything like that. It is tied directly to gold, and that’s a sad reality.

As it stands right now, pavilion is about 10g/hr, which is like working a job for $5 an hour. But on top of that, there is a diminishing return effect that kicks in around 3-4 hours, and that drops off. Some people will still stick around in there but it wont be as much gold/hr. So they switch out and go farm champions in orr or frostgorge.

So this game ended up being a grind because the ‘cool’ items are buyable. I never had to farm gold in WoW, never. I made all my gear through raids, which takes skill and 24 other people working together. but here? no., it’s based entirely on running with a zerg, RNG, or manipulation.

Erasculio.2914:

Imagine ArenaNet were chefs. They will open a new restaurant, based on experimental cuisine, bringing exotic ingredients from all around the world to cook unique and hand-crafted recipes. Oh, and they will include a small menu for kids, with hambuger and fries.

If you can offer unique hand crafted recipes, with premium quality materials, and people opt for the hamburgers and fries instead, it doesn’t mean people are dumb It means your cooking skills suck.

Dinamic events? = Zerg farm.
Jumping puzzles? = mad camera headache
Heart quests? = skip the questgiver’s text taken to the next level.
Dungeons? = boring. Generic. Repetitive.
WvW? = Zerg farm.
Legendary weapons? = sleepless farm
No endgame? = skins/gold farm
SPvP? = repetitive to the nth degree farm.
Living story? = achievement farm

You shouldn’t aim for molecular cuisine if you cannot make a decent omellete.

Very simple:

• Anet doesn’t promote fun because achieving anything in this game requires you to grind gold.
• Grinding gold wouldn’t be bad if you could do it just by exploring that incredible valley there, by killing some people in WvW outside of a zerg or by doing a JP
• Grinding gold is not possible with these methods, only with zerg/farm/grind..
• If anet wants a game without grinding… they should have deleted economy in the game. If there are no currencies, there isn’t any need to farm gold. Instead give unique skins (not armour cause that would give a gear treadmill) for doing unique content.

Wow such a fantastic thread to read through and some great posts / points on both sides of the argument. My 2c on the whole situation.

There are two main reasons I’m still playing this game:

1) I would consider myself a ‘casual’ player. I have a full time job and also study as well so my game time is far less than someone who may be at home all day every day and has access to the game. I feel as though this is one of the main reasons I’m able to log in when I can and feel as though there is something fresh to do. Don’t get me wrong, I’ve spent a decent amount of time playing. I have a legendary, 3 level 80’s with multiple sets of gear, over 6k AP’s, high level fractals on my main but the content updates are JUST enough for me to enjoy when I’m not in WvW.

2) The most important reason I’m still playing is… Drum roll… MY GUILD! I have made some AMAZING friends in this game and I genuinely look forward to logging in when I can to catch up with them over TS and doing some content together. We’ve even had some RL catchup’s and I think that would be the major reason I’m still here.

Unfortunately for ANET, neither of those reasons have anything to do with the game content itself… The guild system / panel is an absolute joke and really should be scrapped and taken back to the drawing board. One MAJOR feature that could really help the community is a Guild Event Calendar! How hard is it really to make something like that so guilds don’t have to rely on forums so much.

As for the PvE content, I really love the idea several people have been posting about since launch, which is a more combat environment in some of the zones where you can build defensive structures to then scale particular events leading to some really cool open world champion battles. Perhaps they can introduce a new crafting tier for building structures, similar to what Wildstar seem to be including which would then clean up the abundance of lower tier crafting materials on the TP as you would have to use those to build the open world structures.

Just spit-balling here but so many neat things they could include but I just feel like they are too focused on story lines and not creative content.

Largely agree with Sirendor, except his conclusion I guess – bit overboard. But yes, gold should play a minimal role, and particularly serve as a safety net. Also, it should be given not for massacring mobs, but for playing the game.

That is key. Stop making RNG loot the primary mechanism to get the things we work for. DE’s? Let the primary reward be from DE completion – instead of the loot from mobs killed. Make Jumping Puzzles rewarding.

USE the DE system to its full extent. Player needs lodestones? Give him DEs that reward lodestones upon completion (say, for clearing an elemental infestation), instead of mindlessly killing the mobs over and over.

Balance DEs. Is a DE popular? Lower its rewards. Impopular? Raise rewards. This could probably be automated, and should ensure players won’t just try to do the most rewarding DEs.

Make DEs meaningful and impacting the world. Don’t have a dragon minion spawn every 2 hours. Make it a series of event lasting several hours across at least an entire map, culminating in a serious battle. Reward players based on how many events they helped in. Say it’s a series of 10 DEs: the player who does the first 9 before logging, gets a major reward; he who just logs in to slay the dragon, gets little. Afterwards, plenty of DEs in rebuilding the villages that were burned down (/frozen solid/crystallized/undeaded/devoured by Oblivion gat…nvm).

And that’s just basic suggestions. Area gets neglected? Let it be overrun, with only main roads remaining safe (somewhat). Make visuals for players to see what maps need help, and make all rewarding for lvl 80 players.

Another one: fewer mobs. Exploration gets annoying if you’re just battling through mobs and hoping you don’t get respawns in your face. Just compare the landscapes of Skyrim and Tyria… and yes, it’ll mean some zones get almost cleaned out by players. So? That’ll give them some incentive to go somewhere they’re actually needed.

Could also make the map status impact the world. Most maps overrun? With trade routes broken, various costs increase, and DE npc’s can’t pay their saviours as much. As players help in taking back zones and rebuilding the settlements, those rewards will increase again.

Pretty much all of that, seems to me, is extending the DE system. Adding new DEs is a means to that end. Yes it’d take time to do that – how about doing that for monthly updates?

And while at it: make it all in tune with the endgame shinies. Legendaries and ascended gear should NOT be a matter of grinding, nor of doing stuff we don’t like. It should be goals you’re working towards just by playing the game – working for it just means you focus your efforts on something specific. Make it depend on skill, and some persistence. Minimize RNG, it’s cheap and if half the vision of GW2 is true, ANet can do better than that.

That’s enough for now I think. To respond to the topic title: if ANet’s disappointed in its players, it failed to take the lessons of the past. If you make your rewards depend on grind, people will do that, and once a bunch does that, the rest is drawn into that by the economy. Players respond to how the game behaves, and that’s how developers have that power. So make sure the game rewards the behaviour you wish to see; take action against players who’ll break rules in their farming behaviour; make the game interesting. DEs can do all this, and more. That’s why I saw it as vision – something that has yet to materialize. I understand Divity’s Reach wasn’t built in one day, but ANet’s had about a year to work out the child’s diseases and get a basic structure of year-round dynamic content. Now it’s time to start fulfilling the true promise of the game.

Vayne.8563:

I complained quite loudly against RNG in cash shop boxes. What, that doesn’t count?

But IIRC you then backtracked on those criticisms at least somewhat.

People keep saying that a majority of players only play for the “shinies” and never play for the fun aspect and that is what is “killing” this game.

It’s not that players don’t enjoy doing fun things, it’s that they want to FEEL like what they are doing is going to be rewarding. As said earlier in this thread, Mass Effect 3 was AMAZING, but then the endings were terrible and made it feel like all you did was for naught. Things become repetitive after a while and lose their fun factor. Sure I can run a dungeon, or explore a zone, or do a event chain. But after people experience these things, the “fun” factor diminishes the more they are replayed because they already know what’s going to happen and what they are getting themselves into.

It’s not that we don’t enjoy doing fun things, it’s that we want to feel like the fun things we are doing actually have a purpose instead of just doing it for the “fun” factor which eventually will fade away.

Zelkovan.2630:

People keep saying that a majority of players only play for the “shinies” and never play for the fun aspect and that is what is “killing” this game.

It’s not that players don’t enjoy doing fun things, it’s that they want to FEEL like what they are doing is going to be rewarding. As said earlier in this thread, Mass Effect 3 was AMAZING, but then the endings were terrible and made it feel like all you did was for naught. Things become repetitive after a while and lose their fun factor. Sure I can run a dungeon, or explore a zone, or do a event chain. But after people experience these things, the “fun” factor diminishes the more they are replayed because they already know what’s going to happen and what they are getting themselves into.

It’s not that we don’t enjoy doing fun things, it’s that we want to feel like the fun things we are doing actually have a purpose instead of just doing it for the “fun” factor which eventually will fade away.

When the fun fades away, it’s time to take a break and play something else. “I don’t want to!” Well, you’re making things unnecessarily difficult on yourself, like me not going after optimal gear, farming mobs or doing renown hearts (the ones I’ve finished have been mostly incidental except for a few cases), quitting my personal story before level cap, exploring areas I was too low level for, and trying to fight in WvW without being at the level cap. I don’t complain about any of the inconveniences I encounter throughout this (much) because I know it’s all my own choice, and that I’ve made things take much longer and be much harder because I decided I didn’t want to do some things.

The people farming and grinding away at some of this stuff just need to own up to the fact that they’re making it all even more tedious than it needs to be by trying to be efficient and repeating the same silly stuff over and over again. Most of the stuff they’re after isn’t going to just disappear from the game overnight, there’s no need to get it right now, so just play off and on whenever you feel like it and do whatever. The game doesn’t need to reward you with anything other than enjoyment and fun, it doesn’t need to give you a sense of purpose for your fun. When you cease to experience those, and feel like your fun needs purpose, it’s really just time to step back for a little while.

The purpose of fun is fun. There is no need to repurpose it. No need to excuse it. Simply experience it while it lasts, and seek another source when it diminishes.

“If our society seems more nihilistic than that of previous eras, perhaps this is simply a sign of our maturity as a sentient species. As our collective consciousness expands beyond a crucial point, we are at last ready to accept life’s fundamental truth: that life’s only purpose is life itself.”-Chairman Sheng-ji Yang of the Human Hive.

A lot of people have made some great comments, and I’d like to add a small issue I have. I agree with a lot of the issues people have brought up and this might be considered a nub/newbie/scrub complaint, but…

I love to explore, find hidden areas, events, jumping puzzles, etc, but one small issue that comes up is some of this hidden areas are not solo’able. I’m far from a way point, on my own, facing some pretty fierce mobs and generally not coming out ahead. In some cases I could bring in an alt more suited to the strategy required, but where is the fun in that? Maybe I could try convince people in guild or map chat to aid me, but a lot of players aren’t exactly friendly to such requests. It really upsets me that they have this beautiful world to explore and all these wonderful events, but if no one is around, in some situations, they can’t be completed.

I remember the last time I explored I found a hidden cave area with these ghosts and torches. I had to light the torches and kill the vet in a certain time frame. At the time I was on a thief going against several ghosts had a pretty heavy ranged attack. My problem? It was impossible to take the three ranged ghosts one by one, I had no long term CC, no reflects, and not enough defensive cooldowns. If I was on my mesmer or guardian, I would’ve easily been able to dispatch them. I ended up getting up to the vet twice. Clearing these three ranged ghosts using clever line of siting, however when I had gotten the vet to about 10-20% they would spawn back and finish me. I finally gave up and then got so discouraged, I simply decided to stop playing for a while.

It would be very nice if these out of the way places were less group orientated and/or scaled well with groups. It seems off if I’m on my own to call in aid or change professions. I want to explore and see all the beautiful places of the world they built, but often get hit with cruel mechanics. It actually discourages me from exploring, even if it’s rare I find a situation I cannot overcome on my own. You could argue “well it’s a mmo stupid pants, get some friends.” I don’t think I should need to call in the cavalry to humor my little adventure which most likely will have a tiny to no reward.

If you want an open game world full of flavour that is ripe for exploration, look at something like Skyrim. That is a brilliant example of how you can create a game that rewards exploration, one that isn’t about farming. Free form quests, complete level scaling, the ability to customise your hero to every degree and, most importantly, an incredibly detailed world.

Sadly, you can’t do that in an MMO. The ‘Massively Multiplayer’ means you have to please lots of people, and the best way to do that is target the lowest common denominator. ANet has to keep players in game, spending money in their store to stay afloat as a model. They have to keep people playing, and the way to do that is offer, as people have pointed out, efficient ways to get loot, because that is what the majority wants.

I love GW2, but their ‘manifesto’ was ambitious. Had they made a single player game, GW2 would be a Skyrim, one where you move around wallowing in the lore and flavour. As it isn’t, it’s a farmfest, like every other MMO known to man.

Gmr Leon.1846:

When the fun fades away, it’s time to take a break and play something else. “I don’t want to!” Well, you’re making things unnecessarily difficult on yourself, like me not going after optimal gear, farming mobs or doing renown hearts (the ones I’ve finished have been mostly incidental except for a few cases), quitting my personal story before level cap, exploring areas I was too low level for, and trying to fight in WvW without being at the level cap. I don’t complain about any of the inconveniences I encounter throughout this (much) because I know it’s all my own choice, and that I’ve made things take much longer and be much harder because I decided I didn’t want to do some things.

The people farming and grinding away at some of this stuff just need to own up to the fact that they’re making it all even more tedious than it needs to be by trying to be efficient and repeating the same silly stuff over and over again. Most of the stuff they’re after isn’t going to just disappear from the game overnight, there’s no need to get it right now, so just play off and on whenever you feel like it and do whatever. The game doesn’t need to reward you with anything other than enjoyment and fun, it doesn’t need to give you a sense of purpose for your fun. When you cease to experience those, and feel like your fun needs purpose, it’s really just time to step back for a little while.

The purpose of fun is fun. There is no need to repurpose it. No need to excuse it. Simply experience it while it lasts, and seek another source when it diminishes.

“If our society seems more nihilistic than that of previous eras, perhaps this is simply a sign of our maturity as a sentient species. As our collective consciousness expands beyond a crucial point, we are at last ready to accept life’s fundamental truth: that life’s only purpose is life itself.”-Chairman Sheng-ji Yang of the Human Hive.

I think you mis-interpreted my post and brought up the argument that most people use: If you’re not enjoying it then don’t play, otherwise you’re a grinder/farmer and ruining the game and/or making life hard for yourself.

To clarify, I still play the game and still enjoy it (alt-aholic here), but when people say “only play for fun” I kind of don’t agree. What I meant in my previous post and in this post, is that while playing for fun is indeed a merit of itself, you have to understand that MMO’s are repetitive by nature. They have to be. An MMO is different from a single player RPG, like Skyrim. MMO’s need playerbases to thrive and something to keep them playing. In GW1, it was all the vast amount of skills you had to unlock.

I mean, if the game is all about the fun and experience, why do we have armor types? Why do we have classes and leveling? To hell with it I say! We must explore the world and enjoy it in our underwear because it is enjoyable to stare at scenery and repeat events over and over! When people say “play for fun. Don’t grind/farm do whatever bro” (or something along those lines) you’re essentially saying: Play this way, because any other way shouldn’t be the way the game is played.

People enjoy working for a task, because it makes them feel like what they did was meaningful. That’s why very little people play sPvP, or why many complain WvW is lacking, because there is little rewards that actually make it feel meaningful, that make us say “Wow, I want to do that again because not only did I enjoy myself I got cool shinies too!”. Rather than, “Wow I enjoyed myself, but i didn’t get anything…I guess i’ll play this one or two more times for the fun of it and drop it when I get bored”.

It’s a little hard to explain my point without going into very big detail, unfortunately.

Waar Kijk Je Naar.8713:

“Oh, you didn’t bother defending Nebo Terrace and the Ascalon Settlement? Well, Lion’s Arch is now under siege. All LA waypoints, merchants, banks, etc are disabled until the siege is lifted. The only way to leave or enter the city is by Asura gate. Centaurs are slaughtering all afk players in the city and bandits steal their armor and weapons.”

^ Nothing like that would ever happen. Chasing lost cows and chickens is dynamic enough for Anet.

There’s lore reasons it doesn’t happen, of course, but I wouldn’t expect people to really know them. Primarily to note, Lion’s Arch is not a “human city”, it’s a free city not affiliated with the crown of Kryta.

There are enjoyment factors in why it wouldn’t happen; what if on a smaller populated server those events were just never done because people didn’t feel like having a gun to their head doing mediocre-level events just to keep LA open? How many people would quit in a week if it was required someone keep running the events to keep LA from being shut down? I would bet a large number – there are MANY who don’t go to Orr for similar reasons (“the waypoints are always off anymore”) – it’s PAINFUL to do Straits of Devastation on a character who wasn’t active way back when there were concerted efforts to complete those chains. So, in a sense, we can see something similar to what you suggested and people I ask about it don’t really like it all that much.

Wouldn’t be surprised.

People i meet in game are nice enough most of the time but the people on these forums whine and complain over every single thing.