Guild Wars 2

Vayne.8563:

Kimyrielle.3826:

Vayne.8563:

Kimyrielle.3826:

Vayne.8563:

So if you play with the same friends all the time, how is that not a guild? That’s what a guild is. If you choose not to make a guild for the extra storage, that’s fine, but essentially a guild is a group of people who play Guild Wars 2 together. If you’re playing with friends, for all intents and purposes you’re a guild…if only a casual one with no hierarchy.

Next time you’re meeting a handful of really good friends in a pub, go tell them that you’re not just friends. You’re a GUILD!

Well….except that you’re not.

A group of friends shares mutual affection and sympathy. A guild doesn’t necessarily (and in larger guilds, it’s actually safe to assume that not everyone is friends with everybody else in there, quite the contrary actually!).

But the major difference between a guild and a group of friends isn’t the bank space. It’s that a group of friends is an informal group while a guild is a formal group. In contrast to a guild, a group of friends has no leadership, no ranks, no rules, no attached strings, no charter, no mission statements, no exclusivity towards other groups, no “we vs. them” attitude. Guilds tend to have these things, at least to a certain degree. And that’s the exact reason why I don’t join them.

Terrible example.

I’m not just meeting friends in a pub. I’m meeting friends in a game. And sometimes I’m running dungeons in that game. That at very least would make you a team. A team of people in a game like Guild Wars that do stuff together all the time, are distinguishable from a guild how?

This isn’t a casual I’m having a drink in a pub. It’s a single shared interest. If you were all playing football you’d be a team. If you’re all running dungeons. for all intents and purposes you’re a guild.

If you don’t want to call yourself a guild, that’s all fine and dandy but you’re doing exactly what a guild does/would do.

Not that I’d really understand what you really want to say here. Or why you are trying to disagree with me, for basically you are just reinforcing what I said: Guilds cannot do anything a group of friends can’t do. The only difference between them is guilds having a totally unnecessary formal overhead that doesn’t add any real benefit. A group of friends in a dungeon is indeed indistinguishable from a guild group for all practical purposes.

I’m saying all a guild is is a group of friends who play together. And since you’re already a group of friends who play together, forming a guild gives you bonuses you wouldn’t get if you didn’t form one.

Being friends is in no way a requirement for forming a guild. I wager that in any sufficiently large guild, you will find people that actually loathe each other. It’s the same as in companies. It’s entirely possible that you will be friends with some of your coworkers, but chances are that you dislike some of them. Point is that as soon as your guild isn’t super small or you’re the leader, you have zero control over who they recruit. Chances are that you will end up with at least some guildmates you actually cannot stand. For that reason the equation “guild = friends” is invalid.

I have lead my guild since 2005. My intention was to create a guild where no one was excluded, regardless of level, gear and profession/class. Of course, that’s not worked in every game and there are always limitations in all games. But wherever possible, we try to tackle everything as a guild.

Our main focus is RP, though, and this means very absorbing storylines that take us across the game world. Out of character, we’ll run lower levels to the next locale, to get the WPs, so that they can join in too.

Because of the sheer amount of RL time our games masters put into creating story arcs, seeking out locations for RP and RL cash for gold for gear for their NPCs that nudge the arcs along, we expect 75% representation. So we try to foster a community spirit in guildchat, on TS and on our forums, hoping that it’s worth our members’ time to stay with us.

So why would anyone join us? Because they want a group of people who are friendly, provide them with fun things to do and helpful too. Of course, they always have the ultimate vote, with their feet. I’ve got members who have been in the guild since 2005, several others who have been with us for 3 or more years.

Some players just don’t want to be in a guild, if they get what they want from a game, that’s just fine.

On the other hand, I don’t want guild jumpers in mine. If I find a member is joining and not pulling their weight, or representing us enough, then they don’t last.

Kimyrielle.3826:

Vayne.8563:

Kimyrielle.3826:

Vayne.8563:

Kimyrielle.3826:

Vayne.8563:

So if you play with the same friends all the time, how is that not a guild? That’s what a guild is. If you choose not to make a guild for the extra storage, that’s fine, but essentially a guild is a group of people who play Guild Wars 2 together. If you’re playing with friends, for all intents and purposes you’re a guild…if only a casual one with no hierarchy.

Next time you’re meeting a handful of really good friends in a pub, go tell them that you’re not just friends. You’re a GUILD!

Well….except that you’re not.

A group of friends shares mutual affection and sympathy. A guild doesn’t necessarily (and in larger guilds, it’s actually safe to assume that not everyone is friends with everybody else in there, quite the contrary actually!).

But the major difference between a guild and a group of friends isn’t the bank space. It’s that a group of friends is an informal group while a guild is a formal group. In contrast to a guild, a group of friends has no leadership, no ranks, no rules, no attached strings, no charter, no mission statements, no exclusivity towards other groups, no “we vs. them” attitude. Guilds tend to have these things, at least to a certain degree. And that’s the exact reason why I don’t join them.

Terrible example.

I’m not just meeting friends in a pub. I’m meeting friends in a game. And sometimes I’m running dungeons in that game. That at very least would make you a team. A team of people in a game like Guild Wars that do stuff together all the time, are distinguishable from a guild how?

This isn’t a casual I’m having a drink in a pub. It’s a single shared interest. If you were all playing football you’d be a team. If you’re all running dungeons. for all intents and purposes you’re a guild.

If you don’t want to call yourself a guild, that’s all fine and dandy but you’re doing exactly what a guild does/would do.

Not that I’d really understand what you really want to say here. Or why you are trying to disagree with me, for basically you are just reinforcing what I said: Guilds cannot do anything a group of friends can’t do. The only difference between them is guilds having a totally unnecessary formal overhead that doesn’t add any real benefit. A group of friends in a dungeon is indeed indistinguishable from a guild group for all practical purposes.

I’m saying all a guild is is a group of friends who play together. And since you’re already a group of friends who play together, forming a guild gives you bonuses you wouldn’t get if you didn’t form one.

Being friends is in no way a requirement for forming a guild. I wager that in any sufficiently large guild, you will find people that actually loathe each other. It’s the same as in companies. It’s entirely possible that you will be friends with some of your coworkers, but chances are that you dislike some of them. Point is that as soon as your guild isn’t super small or you’re the leader, you have zero control over who they recruit. Chances are that you will end up with at least some guildmates you actually cannot stand. For that reason the equation “guild = friends” is invalid.

A group of friends who play together, could spend ten silver and form a guild and still play together. There are many many groups of RL friends who have guilds in game. They do nothing differently in the guild than out of the guild.

Saying that in a big guild it’s different is true…but that only makes you a small guild.

What you are doing is acting like a guild without calling yourself a guild. You’re not a big guild. But you’re most certainly a team of people playing the same game.

Call it anything you like, but it’s just semantics at this point.

I’m a guild hopper.

I have a personal guild and 4 others to hop.

Due to where I live – there’s not much people online so I rep the guild who has the most people online. :p

Even though this is Guild Wars, being in a guild has felt more important in almost every game I have played than what it is here.

To make things interesting there should be something like guild ranking, real competition between guilds.

Nope, I’m not in a guild. I have only a personal guild for bank space.

Vayne.8563:

What you are doing is acting like a guild without calling yourself a guild.
Call it anything you like, but it’s just semantics at this point.

Yes. That’s pretty much what I have been saying all the time, except it would never occur to me to refer to the people on my friends list as a “guild”. And while I would still say that a friends list lacks the most defining feature of a guild, which is the formal/hierarchical structure: It’s largely semantics. In the end, you don’t seem to disagree with my basic point that guilds are a pointless feature of MMOs, for they can’t do anything a circle of friends can’t do. So we don’t really have anything to argue over.

Kimyrielle.3826:

Vayne.8563:

What you are doing is acting like a guild without calling yourself a guild.
Call it anything you like, but it’s just semantics at this point.

Yes. That’s pretty much what I have been saying all the time, except it would never occur to me to refer to the people on my friends list as a “guild”. And while I would still say that a friends list lacks the most defining feature of a guild, which is the formal/hierarchical structure: It’s largely semantics. In the end, you don’t seem to disagree with my basic point that guilds are a pointless feature of MMOs, for they can’t do anything a circle of friends can’t do. So we don’t really have anything to argue over.

Looks like you have had some bad experiences in guilds or you are simply arguing for the sake of arguing. If its the latter then nothing we say can convince you. If your are a skeptic and you wish to be proven otherwise then the only thing you can do to know the value of guilds in MMO’s is by joining a guild that is helpful, fun, not just a lfg. If you can’t decide on what type of person you are, what type of guild suits you then there is no more to say. 6 guilds that have disbanded is just due to bad management or bad choice in your part.

I have been in 2 guilds. First one was lousy management, recruiting, a lfg guild. I stayed in it for 1 week. The second and current one I joined in the end of March. I took the time to pick my guild and checked the foundations of the guild. It is now october and the guild that was made in even b4 I was in it, is still strong and getting stronger. I am sorry you had to go through 6 guilds and seen all of them disband. That doesn’t mean guilds are useless. It just means you haven’t been able to stay in one long enough to experience loyalty and growth. Pick wisely

Arrow.3856:

I am sorry you had to go through 6 guilds and seen all of them disband. That doesn’t mean guilds are useless. It just means you haven’t been able to stay in one long enough to experience loyalty and growth. Pick wisely

You got that wrong, I never actually joined them. They were guilds of friends of mine that I witnessed dying from an outsider perspective.
Whether or not I had bad experience doesn’t have any influence on my basic statement, though. Guilds are indeed an unneeded feature of MMOs that doesn’t really add anything to the games. Normally I wouldn’t care about them at all – the only reason why I do is because devs usually think elaborate social features (e.g. custom chat channels, advanced social networking functions etc.) aren’t needed anymore as soon as they implement guilds. Which is sad.

Arrow.3856:

you are simply arguing for the sake of arguing

Kimyrielle.3826:

Vayne.8563:

What you are doing is acting like a guild without calling yourself a guild.
Call it anything you like, but it’s just semantics at this point.

Yes. That’s pretty much what I have been saying all the time, except it would never occur to me to refer to the people on my friends list as a “guild”. And while I would still say that a friends list lacks the most defining feature of a guild, which is the formal/hierarchical structure: It’s largely semantics. In the end, you don’t seem to disagree with my basic point that guilds are a pointless feature of MMOs, for they can’t do anything a circle of friends can’t do. So we don’t really have anything to argue over.

Well, if you keep saying guilds are pointless, I’d still have to disagree. I think there’s a point to have a guild bank and there’s a point to having guild buffs, and there’s certainly a point to doing guild missions which you won’t get credit for if you don’t actually rep a guild.

Arrow.3856:

Arrow.3856:

you are simply arguing for the sake of arguing

Um, yeah…isn’t discussing stuff the point of discussion forums?

Kimyrielle.3826:

No. I don’t understand the purpose of guilds and why I would want to join a formal organization complete with a hierarchy to play a computer game . Guilds can’t do anything a friends list can’t do. In addition, I have full control over who’s on my friends list, but zero control over who the guild’s recruiting (unless I am the leader, of course).

You may have control over who’s on your friend list, but you have zero control who puts you on their friend list and can see when you logon, logoff, where you are……

You are right and wrong on what a guild can and can’t do that friends can’t. Unless you have a mega friendlist, you won’t be organizing Karka Queen, Tequatl on an overflow, Balthazar events, etc… Yes, you can join in and do it with people without being in the guild, but the organization that starts it? Usually a guild. So in these cases you didn’t need to join the guild, but you’re still leeching from the guild’s organization to get it done.
And of course Guild Missions. Ours do them 3 times a week. Good rewards, good times.
Plus the 24/7 stat bonuses from representing a guild (provided the guild enables them). I don’t think your friends list can do that either.
I don’t understand where you’re coming from with the whole hierarchy bit. Yeah there’s ranks, but I’ve yet to be in a guild thats like a Military scenario you seem to paint. Just people talking and doing things together.

MrRuin.9740:

I don’t understand where you’re coming from with the whole hierarchy bit. Yeah there’s ranks, but I’ve yet to be in a guild thats like a Military scenario you seem to paint. Just people talking and doing things together.

Last time I checked you couldn’t operate a guild without a hierarchy. I guess the only workaround would be to delete all ranks except “Leader”, make every member a “Leader”, and agree not to recruit anyone without unanimous consent of every member. I have yet to see a guild being run like this. 95% of them are being run by leaders that…well…do what leaders do, which is making executive decisions. They rest are super-small to the degree they are little more than a banking guild and chat for a handful of friends.

Kimyrielle.3826:

MrRuin.9740:

I don’t understand where you’re coming from with the whole hierarchy bit. Yeah there’s ranks, but I’ve yet to be in a guild thats like a Military scenario you seem to paint. Just people talking and doing things together.

Last time I checked you couldn’t operate a guild without a hierarchy. I guess the only workaround would be to delete all ranks except “Leader”, make every member a “Leader”, and agree not to recruit anyone without unanimous consent of every member. I have yet to see a guild being run like this. 95% of them are being run by leaders that…well…do what leaders do, which is making executive decisions. They rest are super-small to the degree they are little more than a banking guild and chat for a handful of friends.

On the subject of guild and friends…while it’s true that you can’t always choose who’s in your guild, you also can’t really always choose who’s in your group of friends in the same way.

Sure you can say I don’t want to be friends with someone, but in life, sometimes your friend’s friends come along and you don’t really care for them. Not everyone gets along. It happens at parties in real life. It happens when you’re just hanging out at the bar.

You can leave or you can stay or you can coexist or not, but you can’t always choose your friend’s friends….so yeah, a group of friends could very well still be a guild.