Guild Wars 2

Unloveableone.6082:

How would you feel if your hard work and what you’ve dedicated a year or two to, was ridiculed and hated before it was even released?

As a human? Like crud.

As an artist? Like I should really try harder at improvement.

As a businessman? Like I should re-evaluate my whole approach & strategy.

Companies aren’t your friend. It is in their best interest to pretend like they are, but it’s certainly not in your best interests to let them. In the end your question is irrelevant.

Go ahead, take a bullet for ArenaNet/NCSoft. Do realize they’ll be searching through your pockets & won’t be attending your funeral.

Odyssey.2613:

Unloveableone.6082:

How would you feel if your hard work and what you’ve dedicated a year or two to, was ridiculed and hated before it was even released?

As a human? Like crud.

As an artist? Like I should really try harder at improvement.

As a businessman? Like I should re-evaluate my whole approach & strategy.

Companies aren’t your friend. It is in their best interest to pretend like they are, but it’s certainly not in your best interests to let them. In the end your question is irrelevant.

Go ahead, take a bullet for ArenaNet/NCSoft. Do realize they’ll be searching through your pockets & won’t be attending your funeral.

This is Wonderful ! I Like It~

Odyssey.2613:

Unloveableone.6082:

How would you feel if your hard work and what you’ve dedicated a year or two to, was ridiculed and hated before it was even released?

As a human? Like crud.

As an artist? Like I should really try harder at improvement.

As a businessman? Like I should re-evaluate my whole approach & strategy.

Companies aren’t your friend. It is in their best interest to pretend like they are, but it’s certainly not in your best interests to let them. In the end your question is irrelevant.

Go ahead, take a bullet for ArenaNet/NCSoft. Do realize they’ll be searching through your pockets & won’t be attending your funeral.

Call me an idealist, but what I seek in a game company is a group of people who care more about making a great game than money. At the very least, it’s far better if a company sees more advantage in befriending than swindling. Yes, don’t be an idiot and always remember it’s a buyer/seller relationship. Still, companies are made up of people. People don’t always share the same goal as the company. There are those who joined because they get to do what they love and want what’s best for the community.

On the other hand, the majority of arguments in this whole expansion craze are aimed at the company, not individuals inside the company. OP’s post is good as a reminder not to attack those who don’t deserve it. However, if it’s an attempt to get everyone to stop accusing the company of things people believe to be wrong, the argument is totally off base. Yes, it’s sad if all the hard work put into HoT is overlooked thanks to errors in other parts of the company. Is that reason enough to just ignore problems? Certainly not.

Nobody personally dislikes anybody who works for Anet over this.

We’re mad about the business result.

Consumers are like a business partner in a way. We’re part of the process. For years we had a fantastic relationship… then one day… what is this? They want to get a 800% better deal for themselves and 800% worse for us? Maybe this business arrangement is coming to an end then. Of course via the magic of the internet and consumer backlash we probably use more swears to describe the situation… but that’s still what it really is.

…and here I was thinking they were all robots.

Yes, of course they’re people too, but no one is angry with the devs (on this occasion!).

People are angry with the company as a whole and more specifically, with the financial part of the company (or the investment company – whoever controls prices).

Just because a few of the people, who work at a company, are artists, doesn’t mean people aren’t allowed to complain, for risk of hurting their delicate sensibilities.

BTW, before anyone accuses me of being unempathetic, my mother was an artist and had she worked for Anet, I’m sure she could have coped with this situation perfectly well.

Especially as she wouldn’t have been the one to design the bundle, or set the prices.

Unloveableone.6082:

Squee.7829:

Where were you people when everyone was raving about Destiny or Assassin’s Creed: Unity? Or Rage? You were silent then. because people had complaints. And legitimate ones. None of those games were worth the $60 price tag and people were very vocal about it. But no one called those “works of art”. Just terrible games. It’s criticism game designers unfortunately come across.
Of course, I’m not saying “OMG your game suckslol” is the proper response, but if people feel it’s not worth $50, it’s not worth $50. Try harder or drop the price.

Harassing devs(that dont even have anything to do with it either) and acting like this is not criticism.
You don’t want to buy it? Don’t buy it then.
But acting like a spoiled rotten child and harassing people is not the right way to go.

Of course it’s not.

I would be interested to know how that person even got hold of her personal account name, in order to do that?

But, just because someone contacts the wrong type of employee, highly inappropriately, doesn’t mean everyone else should just have to keep quiet on the subject.

If that were the case, don’t you think the temptation for companies would be to find the most innocent (and innocent looking) employee and ask them to say they were upset?

We’re not our brother’s keeper – let alone the keeper of some random person, on the internet.

Whereas, if you work for a company, of course you have to accept that you may experience some unfair backlash, from time to time.

As you are professionally associated with the company, whether you are responsible for, or agree with, everything they do, or not.

That’s just life.

Kury.8210:

Call me an idealist, but what I seek in a game company is a group of people who care more about making a great game than money. At the very least, it’s far better if a company sees more advantage in befriending than swindling.

I think the main issue is that ArenaNet has lost the trust of part of the community, who no longer believes in the above – that they are more concerned about making a great game than making money. Hence the complaints that HoT is overpriced – not because people couldn’t afford the 50$, but because it looks like the expansion doesn’t have enough content to justify that price, and many people don’t blindly trust ArenaNet to assume the price is fair.

The people who worked to make the actual xpac deserve mad props, yes, but the person who priced it not so much. Still, hate or no, things will pan out for them. People will forget this and the xpac will sell.

The devs did a great job making the game and do a good job maintaining it.

The guys higher up have tainted their work with BS.

They work for the same company.

Through the eyes of the consumer they’re in this ride together I’m afraid.

Both the devs and higher ups that is.

I don’t support the “abuse” but hey at least everyone at Anet is getting to know the extent of the problem.

Maybe cause some internal conflict lel.

I found a physical copy of the core game 15 days ago, so I bought it even thou it’s at full price (69.95 AUD). I don’t mind paying that price for a great game, I don’t mind paying for HoT expansion as well..

I was led to believe that I need to purchase the core beforehand. There you go, my first experience with arenanet.. Not a pleasant one. Now trusting them is a bit hard for me. I’m just a casual gamer and I love the game, I just don’t want to support someone I don’t trust.

Saiyan.1704:

Odyssey.2613:

My empathy for you ends when you are trying your best to separate my money from my wallet.

Anet didn’t call you on the phone wanting you to buy a service. If you don’t like the product don’t get it. No one is pushing you to do anything, you liberal.

How is that being liberal?

If anything, that is being conservative.

I think the problem is that everybody is hating on Anet and many people say that “the content is blah”, not worth the money…
But the price is not set by the developers. So while you just voiced your opinion that the price is too high, if you worded it that way, you also said that the developers didn’t create good content. Now that’s what they mean here, state your opinion but put the blame where it belongs.

The devs can’t “try harder” or affect the price and the bundles, they sit there, creating what they think is going to be fun content for us and then we come along and say it’s all kitten (without even having seen it).

So yeah, don’t be an kitten about.

Jerus.4350:

To me it’s pretty much because they’ve offered no real incentive to pre-order. You get to test their game for them, that’s your reward for giving them money now. It’s pretty typical to offer something for a pre-order, and with the inclusion of the base game they have offered a pretty sweet deal to new players. So it’s just another instance of them treating their new players while ignoring their current players, and people are upset about that.

(snipped for brevity)

But, that doesn’t change the fact that there’s no incentive to buy now.

And you know what? I fully support your decision to not pre-purchase based on what you’ve seen. That’s sound consumer thinking, to not put down money until you feel the product is worth the price.

Where I start cringing and rolling my eyes at the community is the hellbent insistence to be enraged that this MMO community tends to have in spades. Everything and anything a developer does seems to be steeped in malice. Every cost is borderline fraud. Every in-game change is a spiteful attack on their players.

Why can’t we tone the vitriol down? There’s so many ways to present our reservations rationally that doesn’t make the fan base look like 12-year-olds being told we can’t get three servings of cake for dinner.

People Helping People

I think the people of ArenaNet are awesome!

I also think the way some players behave toward them is disgraceful, and pray that those who do will find more constructive ways to channel their misplaced — and sometimes pathological — aggression.

I don’t think it is fair, however, to try to shame the majority of players who are unhappy with ArenaNet’s recent pricing decisions and FAQ revisions and have politely said so into not speaking their minds.

In particular, some of the name-calling and harassment dissenting players have been subjected to here and elsewhere is despicable, and those responsible for it are the ones who should be ashamed of themselves.

Attacking players personally for giving ArenaNet their honest feedback works against everyone’s best interests, just as attacking ArenaNet employees personally does — in addition to being creepy as hell.

I don’t personally have a dog in this fight. I’ve already pre-purchased Heart of Thorns and am satisfied with my decision.

I do, however, have a very strong interest in the well-being of the game, and to that end, a little mutual respect goes a long way.

Yeah no, this is a bussiness. Thier feelings are second to me, second to MY GAME, AND MY MONEY. The same can be argued for the developers side as well to some extent, the wishes of the consumers will Always be compared to what is financially possible. And sure if they have some leeway they can give back to the community, but yeah how funny this sounds, this gaming industry is serious bussiness xD. Like seriously bieng all mushy, mushy and friendly with developers is bad idea to me. Even if they are also people. It’s still a pretty hard bussiness. lots of money goes into it. developers make hard desicisons from time to time. they knew what they were doing. Sometimes developers need to be made, very, very clear be it positive or negative, how we stand on certain issues. If we like it. we will tell our friends, promote it on social media, do let’s plays and all that crap. but if we hate we should be able to express our hate with the same gokitten kittening passion for kitten’s sake. It’s because they are people. People can be stubborn, and sometimes the nice way doesn’t Always work. Personally I don’t care enough to make a stand about this. but i sure as hell respect those who do. And will strongly disagree with those who oppose giving strong critism’s to developers when the hard times arrive.

chemiclord.3978:

And you know what? I fully support your decision to not pre-purchase based on what you’ve seen. That’s sound consumer thinking, to not put down money until you feel the product is worth the price.

Where I start cringing and rolling my eyes at the community is the hellbent insistence to be enraged that this MMO community tends to have in spades. Everything and anything a developer does seems to be steeped in malice. Every cost is borderline fraud. Every in-game change is a spiteful attack on their players.

Why can’t we tone the vitriol down? There’s so many ways to present our reservations rationally that doesn’t make the fan base look like 12-year-olds being told we can’t get three servings of cake for dinner.

This x infinity.

A couple of posts above Test said “I think the main issue is that ArenaNet has lost the trust of part of the community, who no longer believes in the above”. he is right in that regard most likely, whats tragic is, was there really a reason for the community to stop trusting ? where I stand its actually the opposite.

The first major issue came with Ascended gear, people raged because they didnt want a great threadmill and they felt Anet betrayed them by starting one. 3 years later they kept true to their word and didnt introduce a new tier.

Then came the temporary content controversy. Season 2 Anet listened to the players and made new content permanent

then came the Gem conversion issue. Once again outrage but once again Anet fixed it.

Then we had the whole LS content updates arent enough we want expansion rage and once again Anet listened

We also had the trait unlock saga and once again Anet listened

The only source of major outrage that wasnt addressed so far is the NPE changes and lets be honest they only have a minor impact if any on veteran players unlike all the other issues. So really how did they break our trust exactly? Thing is I dont believe they did, its just that as chemiclord said people in this community seem to love to “blow up”. When that happens collective emotions rise more then they should and even when Anet addresses whatever complaints the community has all those people remember is how angry they were the next time something happens.

Case in point, like I already stated people were angry with the LS mostly because said updates were too small to work as an expansion replacement. Only now we know they were never an expansion replacement but rather something to keep us busy while they worked on an expansion. Yet people still use that as the bases of their believe that there is no way HoT will have enough content.

Think about that for a second, the only MMO company to release steady content for free while they develop an expansion has somehow become solid proof for some people that Anet is unable to develop a good quantity of content. Shouldnt it be the exact opposite ?

Conncept.7638:

Unloveableone.6082:

THave you ever created a work of art? A painting? A musical piece? A game? A story?

How would you feel if your hard work and what you’ve dedicated a year or two to, was ridiculed and hated before it was even released?

Yeah actually, career artist here, second generation after my mother who was a classical portrait and landscape artist.

And you know what she taught me?

If you can’t take critique, keep your art, to yourself.

Critique is as much a part of the artistic process as concept and creation. Unless you are somehow an immaculate and perfect artist, basically unless you are God Himself, your art warrants critique and you should accept and consider it gracefully regardless of how and where it is given. My greatest artistic mentor once told a student that he didn’t have what it takes for an art career, the kid said he appreciated his honesty, walked out of class and over to the administration building, where he immediately changed his major. And there have never been any hard feelings between that student and the professor. The kid may not have had the artistic talent, but he had the artistically driven mentality that accepts, rather than takes offense to, critique.

Unloveableone.6082:

You don’t want to pay the full price for the pre-order?
Don’t. That is your choice. But they owe you NOTHING.

Completely false, they do owe people something. They stated for six months, since its first announcement, that the expansion would require the purchase of the base game. They owe people who purchased or supported the game, based on that, another means to purchase the game for a price comparably fair to those who are getting the base game rolled in for free. If they had never made any such a statement, then you would have a point, but since they did, they have an obligation to keep their word if they want to maintain the respect and trust of their playerbase.

Unloveableone.6082:

How would you feel if when you announced that it was ready for purchase, people spat on it. People lashed out at you on not only your official accounts, but your personal ones to.

But being complete jerks about all of this is revolting and reflects poorly on us as a community. And think of the devs. They have feelings too. And I’m sure many are upset right now. This may just be an expansion to you, but it’s much more than that to them.

Now all that said, this is completely deplorable behavior and I hope ANet takes just action against the accounts who have done this. Those are their private, not professional, accounts. This is like showing up at someones home and screaming in to their house from the street about the dealings of the business they work for, and worse, doing so when you don’t even know the persons opinions or involvement in the incident in question. In real life, this would be considered harassment, possibly even assault, and I wouldn’t even scoff at a permanent ban for these people.

However, as for you, OP. You are a completely despicable wormtongue for having made this thread as an underhanded attack against people whose opinions you disagree with. Rather than supporting your opinion with any amount of logic or evidence like a civilized and intelligent person, you have attempted to vilify those you disagree with with emotionally charged stereotyping base on a tiny subset of people that the majority of those who share the opinion you disagree with, would never have anything to do with.

I respect the majority of the people on these forums who share your opinion, even though I don’t agree with them, but not you, you don’t give any, and you don’t deserve any it in return.

Brilliant! I couldn’t agree more.

DeceiverX.8361:

This thread is absolutely unbelievable. The developers didn’t set the price. They also don’t deserve the hate, and in most cases, they haven’t. This is done by marketing and is done completely over their head. They likely have absolutely no say whatsoever in what the pricing is like.

Vocalizing our complaints is better for the developers than not saying anything and just not buying the expansion. We’re complaining because we want to buy the expansion, but feel as though we’re not getting our money’s worth if we do. By staying silent and not purchasing, all this looks like to management is that the expansion conceptually failed, and the developers did a sub-par job at it. This likely leaves the people who actually built the expansion at a loss – possibly even losing their jobs – and it doesn’t improve the situation for anyone. It also keeps management who made these stupid decisions unaccountable in their minds, and does nothing to change the business approach that led them to get backlash to begin with.

Vocalizing our concerns gets communications teams involved and the issue looked into further, and the blame is only traced back to management and marketing for failing on the pricing and business logic. You can’t accuse a dev of doing their job poorly by low sales on a game that hasn’t been released yet. That lies solely on management and marketing.

So if the OP actually gives a kitten and wants to treat ANet’s employees with respect as human beings, he should encourage civil criticism and support the vocalization as a mean of protecting the developers who bring us high-quality content. If there are complaints on the content itself, like bugs, bad design decisions, etc., then it’s also the responsibility of the developers to accept the fact they made mistakes (we all do, especially in programming and development), be thankful for the feedback, and fix it.

Yes, there’s no sense in just insulting random employees, but the people who actually worked kitten this content have nothing to do with the bullcat attitude from ANet’s marketing and management teams regarding the pricing and communications policies pertaining to HoT.

Intelligent and constructive post.

Genuinely impressed.

just a minute cause somehow our message has somehow morphed from be respectful to dont critisize anything at all. Thats not what we’re saying here. No one here that I am aware of is saying people should not tell anet what they disgree with or critic any decision they made that you might not agree with.

Hey I am defending Anet but still I dont think they handled this really well. There is nothing wrong with asking for $50 if what you’re offering is worth $50 but if you’re going for the top price an expansion sells for by like everyone you need to inform the people why you deserve $10 more then the average and thats something Anet didnt do. I think thats a mistake and have no problem saying that. But thats not what we’re fighting I am sure no one is going get hurt by a comment like that, the problem is people went way beyond that an posted hurtful things, like calling for people to get fired, shotting down what was shown so far by saying it wasnt worth anything (or close to anything) or even worst urgening people to boycott the whole expansion.

Constructive ciritism is fine, its more then fine its encouraged by everyone. Thats not the problem, thats not what we want stopped. Its the rage, the hateful attacks and the desrespectful comments that are at issue here.

Lol nothing to do with the effort thats gone into it. I can appreciate anyones work and still not like being ripped a new kitten hole for it

We feel entitled to stuff, mindlessly demanding things… I think we should sit and think about what we’re asking, and see if it’s too HORRIBLE if we don’t get it. It’s not like we’ll lose an arm if we don’t get a character slot. You can farm gold, convert to gem, and buy it. I don’t want ArenaNet to remove core game from prepurchasers.

Valento.9852:

We feel entitled to stuff, mindlessly demanding things… I think we should sit and think about what we’re asking, and see if it’s too HORRIBLE if we don’t get it. It’s not like we’ll lose an arm if we don’t get a character slot. You can farm gold, convert to gem, and buy it. I don’t want ArenaNet to remove core game from prepurchasers.

You may do, I do not, please don’t generalise and include me in your thought processes

k thx ta

Squee.7829:

Where were you people when everyone was raving about Destiny or Assassin’s Creed: Unity? Or Rage? You were silent then. because people had complaints. And legitimate ones. None of those games were worth the $60 price tag and people were very vocal about it. But no one called those “works of art”. Just terrible games. It’s criticism game designers unfortunately come across.
Of course, I’m not saying “OMG your game suckslol” is the proper response, but if people feel it’s not worth $50, it’s not worth $50. Try harder or drop the price.

But if the entire point of this thread is “People should stop being pricks” then yes, you’re right. But the most common argument you’ll see here is “Companies shouldn’t overcharge us/rip us off” and I’m afraid this time I’ll be inclined to agree.

How are they ripping you off? Were you somehow forced to purchase it?

It’s simple. If you don’t think it’s worth the price, don’t buy it. But it isn’t ripping you off.

Talon Silverhawk.3574:

Valento.9852:

We feel entitled to stuff, mindlessly demanding things… I think we should sit and think about what we’re asking, and see if it’s too HORRIBLE if we don’t get it. It’s not like we’ll lose an arm if we don’t get a character slot. You can farm gold, convert to gem, and buy it. I don’t want ArenaNet to remove core game from prepurchasers.

You may do, I do not, please don’t generalise and include me in your thought processes

k thx ta

I am not generalizing. Notice how I speak by myself and the use of “should”.

If having standards and expectations makes me entitled, then entitled I am.
I don’t even kittening care anymore. So many people have thrown the word entitled around so carelessly since HoT’s ridiculously high price was revealed that it has lost all meaning.

chemiclord.3978:

Jerus.4350:

To me it’s pretty much because they’ve offered no real incentive to pre-order. You get to test their game for them, that’s your reward for giving them money now. It’s pretty typical to offer something for a pre-order, and with the inclusion of the base game they have offered a pretty sweet deal to new players. So it’s just another instance of them treating their new players while ignoring their current players, and people are upset about that.

(snipped for brevity)

But, that doesn’t change the fact that there’s no incentive to buy now.

And you know what? I fully support your decision to not pre-purchase based on what you’ve seen. That’s sound consumer thinking, to not put down money until you feel the product is worth the price.

Where I start cringing and rolling my eyes at the community is the hellbent insistence to be enraged that this MMO community tends to have in spades. Everything and anything a developer does seems to be steeped in malice. Every cost is borderline fraud. Every in-game change is a spiteful attack on their players.

Why can’t we tone the vitriol down? There’s so many ways to present our reservations rationally that doesn’t make the fan base look like 12-year-olds being told we can’t get three servings of cake for dinner.

Maybe that’s just the way you’re viewing it?

Maybe you used to be the 12 year old who wanted three servings of cake, so you now see that quality in others, even when it’s not there?

Because, the only thing I’m seeing, is people who feel they are being charged too much and/or feel that they should get an extra char slot/some other compensation for already owning the base game.

Which seems fairly reasonable.

…and the only bad type of comment I have seen, is the occasional person saying they dislike new players, so object to them getting the base game free, as it will attract more of them to the game.

Tigaseye.2047:

chemiclord.3978:

Jerus.4350:

To me it’s pretty much because they’ve offered no real incentive to pre-order. You get to test their game for them, that’s your reward for giving them money now. It’s pretty typical to offer something for a pre-order, and with the inclusion of the base game they have offered a pretty sweet deal to new players. So it’s just another instance of them treating their new players while ignoring their current players, and people are upset about that.

(snipped for brevity)

But, that doesn’t change the fact that there’s no incentive to buy now.

And you know what? I fully support your decision to not pre-purchase based on what you’ve seen. That’s sound consumer thinking, to not put down money until you feel the product is worth the price.

Where I start cringing and rolling my eyes at the community is the hellbent insistence to be enraged that this MMO community tends to have in spades. Everything and anything a developer does seems to be steeped in malice. Every cost is borderline fraud. Every in-game change is a spiteful attack on their players.

Why can’t we tone the vitriol down? There’s so many ways to present our reservations rationally that doesn’t make the fan base look like 12-year-olds being told we can’t get three servings of cake for dinner.

Maybe that’s just the way you’re viewing it?

Maybe you used to be the 12 year old who wanted three servings of cake, so you now see that quality in others, even when it’s not there?

Because, the only thing I’m seeing, is people who feel they are being charged too much and/or feel that they should get an extra char slot/some other compensation for already owning the base game.

Which seems fairly reasonable.

…and the only bad type of comment I have seen, is the occasional person saying they dislike new players, so object to them getting the base game free, as it will attract more of them to the game.

There absolutely has been vitriol. Lots of us have seen it. I’m on my cell phone but if necessary when at a computer I’ll start bringing up linkable quotes.

Not all are still there. Like the one where someone was wondering if a class action lawsuit could be filed.

Morfedel.4165:

Tigaseye.2047:

chemiclord.3978:

Jerus.4350:

To me it’s pretty much because they’ve offered no real incentive to pre-order. You get to test their game for them, that’s your reward for giving them money now. It’s pretty typical to offer something for a pre-order, and with the inclusion of the base game they have offered a pretty sweet deal to new players. So it’s just another instance of them treating their new players while ignoring their current players, and people are upset about that.

(snipped for brevity)

But, that doesn’t change the fact that there’s no incentive to buy now.

And you know what? I fully support your decision to not pre-purchase based on what you’ve seen. That’s sound consumer thinking, to not put down money until you feel the product is worth the price.

Where I start cringing and rolling my eyes at the community is the hellbent insistence to be enraged that this MMO community tends to have in spades. Everything and anything a developer does seems to be steeped in malice. Every cost is borderline fraud. Every in-game change is a spiteful attack on their players.

Why can’t we tone the vitriol down? There’s so many ways to present our reservations rationally that doesn’t make the fan base look like 12-year-olds being told we can’t get three servings of cake for dinner.

Maybe that’s just the way you’re viewing it?

Maybe you used to be the 12 year old who wanted three servings of cake, so you now see that quality in others, even when it’s not there?

Because, the only thing I’m seeing, is people who feel they are being charged too much and/or feel that they should get an extra char slot/some other compensation for already owning the base game.

Which seems fairly reasonable.

…and the only bad type of comment I have seen, is the occasional person saying they dislike new players, so object to them getting the base game free, as it will attract more of them to the game.

There absolutely has been vitriol. Lots of us have seen it. I’m on my cell phone but if necessary when at a computer I’ll start bringing up linkable quotes.

Not all are still there. Like the one where someone was wondering if a class action lawsuit could be filed.

There has been a lot of nonsens on both sides, I think every one will agree to that. Just because some people go off the bat does not change the validity of the topic at hand.

And I’d be careful with starting to throw around quotes. Someone from the other side of the disscussion might do the same, and the last thing you want is both sides throwing around the most poisonos stuff said at each other in a battle of who has the biggest kitten.

Morfedel.4165:

Tigaseye.2047:

chemiclord.3978:

Jerus.4350:

To me it’s pretty much because they’ve offered no real incentive to pre-order. You get to test their game for them, that’s your reward for giving them money now. It’s pretty typical to offer something for a pre-order, and with the inclusion of the base game they have offered a pretty sweet deal to new players. So it’s just another instance of them treating their new players while ignoring their current players, and people are upset about that.

(snipped for brevity)

But, that doesn’t change the fact that there’s no incentive to buy now.

And you know what? I fully support your decision to not pre-purchase based on what you’ve seen. That’s sound consumer thinking, to not put down money until you feel the product is worth the price.

Where I start cringing and rolling my eyes at the community is the hellbent insistence to be enraged that this MMO community tends to have in spades. Everything and anything a developer does seems to be steeped in malice. Every cost is borderline fraud. Every in-game change is a spiteful attack on their players.

Why can’t we tone the vitriol down? There’s so many ways to present our reservations rationally that doesn’t make the fan base look like 12-year-olds being told we can’t get three servings of cake for dinner.

Maybe that’s just the way you’re viewing it?

Maybe you used to be the 12 year old who wanted three servings of cake, so you now see that quality in others, even when it’s not there?

Because, the only thing I’m seeing, is people who feel they are being charged too much and/or feel that they should get an extra char slot/some other compensation for already owning the base game.

Which seems fairly reasonable.

…and the only bad type of comment I have seen, is the occasional person saying they dislike new players, so object to them getting the base game free, as it will attract more of them to the game.

There absolutely has been vitriol. Lots of us have seen it. I’m on my cell phone but if necessary when at a computer I’ll start bringing up linkable quotes.

Not all are still there. Like the one where someone was wondering if a class action lawsuit could be filed.

That example is not not vitriol; that’s just being a little overdramatic.

If the word “wondering” appears, it is unlikely to be followed by a vitriolic comment.

…and actually, if a lot of people had paid for the base game, because they had been told they would need it for the xpac and then the base game was provided free with the xpac and Anet wouldn’t refund their original purchase, they might be entitled to take some kind of legal action.

I hear Anet are refunding very recent purchases of the base game now, though.

Cyninja.2954:

Morfedel.4165:

Tigaseye.2047:

chemiclord.3978:

Jerus.4350:

To me it’s pretty much because they’ve offered no real incentive to pre-order. You get to test their game for them, that’s your reward for giving them money now. It’s pretty typical to offer something for a pre-order, and with the inclusion of the base game they have offered a pretty sweet deal to new players. So it’s just another instance of them treating their new players while ignoring their current players, and people are upset about that.

(snipped for brevity)

But, that doesn’t change the fact that there’s no incentive to buy now.

And you know what? I fully support your decision to not pre-purchase based on what you’ve seen. That’s sound consumer thinking, to not put down money until you feel the product is worth the price.

Where I start cringing and rolling my eyes at the community is the hellbent insistence to be enraged that this MMO community tends to have in spades. Everything and anything a developer does seems to be steeped in malice. Every cost is borderline fraud. Every in-game change is a spiteful attack on their players.

Why can’t we tone the vitriol down? There’s so many ways to present our reservations rationally that doesn’t make the fan base look like 12-year-olds being told we can’t get three servings of cake for dinner.

Maybe that’s just the way you’re viewing it?

Maybe you used to be the 12 year old who wanted three servings of cake, so you now see that quality in others, even when it’s not there?

Because, the only thing I’m seeing, is people who feel they are being charged too much and/or feel that they should get an extra char slot/some other compensation for already owning the base game.

Which seems fairly reasonable.

…and the only bad type of comment I have seen, is the occasional person saying they dislike new players, so object to them getting the base game free, as it will attract more of them to the game.

There absolutely has been vitriol. Lots of us have seen it. I’m on my cell phone but if necessary when at a computer I’ll start bringing up linkable quotes.

Not all are still there. Like the one where someone was wondering if a class action lawsuit could be filed.

There has been a lot of nonsens on both sides, I think every one will agree to that. Just because some people go off the bat does not change the validity of the topic at hand.

And I’d be careful with starting to throw around quotes. Someone from the other side of the disscussion might do the same, and the last thing you want is both sides throwing around the most poisonos stuff said at each other in a battle of who has the biggest kitten.

Except I never said the other side wasn’t using vitriol; I was specifically replying to the fact that tigaseye said he had seen almost no vitriol himself and suggested it was possibly that other user’s perceptions rather than real life here.

There’s lots of vitriol on both sides, sure. Again, just responding that he said he hadn’t seen hardly any vitriol, which I found somewhat surprising.

Tigaseye.2047:

Morfedel.4165:

Tigaseye.2047:

chemiclord.3978:

Jerus.4350:

To me it’s pretty much because they’ve offered no real incentive to pre-order. You get to test their game for them, that’s your reward for giving them money now. It’s pretty typical to offer something for a pre-order, and with the inclusion of the base game they have offered a pretty sweet deal to new players. So it’s just another instance of them treating their new players while ignoring their current players, and people are upset about that.

(snipped for brevity)

But, that doesn’t change the fact that there’s no incentive to buy now.

And you know what? I fully support your decision to not pre-purchase based on what you’ve seen. That’s sound consumer thinking, to not put down money until you feel the product is worth the price.

Where I start cringing and rolling my eyes at the community is the hellbent insistence to be enraged that this MMO community tends to have in spades. Everything and anything a developer does seems to be steeped in malice. Every cost is borderline fraud. Every in-game change is a spiteful attack on their players.

Why can’t we tone the vitriol down? There’s so many ways to present our reservations rationally that doesn’t make the fan base look like 12-year-olds being told we can’t get three servings of cake for dinner.

Maybe that’s just the way you’re viewing it?

Maybe you used to be the 12 year old who wanted three servings of cake, so you now see that quality in others, even when it’s not there?

Because, the only thing I’m seeing, is people who feel they are being charged too much and/or feel that they should get an extra char slot/some other compensation for already owning the base game.

Which seems fairly reasonable.

…and the only bad type of comment I have seen, is the occasional person saying they dislike new players, so object to them getting the base game free, as it will attract more of them to the game.

There absolutely has been vitriol. Lots of us have seen it. I’m on my cell phone but if necessary when at a computer I’ll start bringing up linkable quotes.

Not all are still there. Like the one where someone was wondering if a class action lawsuit could be filed.

That example is not not vitriol; that’s just being a little overdramatic.

If the word “wondering” appears, it is unlikely to be followed by a vitriolic comment.

…and actually, if a lot of people had paid for the base game, because they had been told they would need it for the xpac and then the base game was provided free with the xpac and Anet wouldn’t refund their original purchase, they might be entitled to take some kind of legal action.

I hear Anet are refunding very recent purchases of the base game now, though.

I didn’t read the post myself, but a few people I know well had, and said that one WAS indeed filled with vitriol, it wasn’t just a “I wonder thing.” According to what I was told, which was, granted, hearsay.

But I’ve seen PLENTY of rather rage-filled posts. From BOTH sides of this argument.

As for the ones who bought the game because of the earlier FAQ stating they would be required to buy the game, that would be the one exception, but I think that was a mistake rather than a calculated move. A rather stupid mistake, yes, but still.

Well, I still tend to think it’s a perception thing.

Customers have a right to complain about products and companies, even if they do so in a fairly forceful, or direct, way.

What they don’t have a right to do, is to contact people’s personal email addresses, or accounts (unless they have been invited to do so, by the owner), or to make personal and/or offensive comments about people who work for the company (or about other customers).

Other than that, people can pretty much say what they like about the product, or the company; it’s just business, after all.

An exception would be a libellous, or defamatory, comment, but in this case, if it’s mostly based on perceptions about value, that is fairly unlikely.

Anet are ppl Nsoft are not hehe. I have a feeling prices and what comes with it is something Anet must at least run though Nsoft before its ok or Nsoft comply makes the chose on there own. So ragging at Anet really not going to do much on the buy and sell front but you can talk about it etc.. There a lot more going on about pricing then we can see and more then likely we will never know.

Expansions commonly sell at £34 (50$) Standard. my opinon on it is purely that

WoW WoD – £40
EQ2 AoM – £34
Rift – £20 Just for the extra Souls but Expansions are free, the Micro-transactions to unlock the extras in the Expansion will come out to about £40 though.

These games expansions are not big, they do not add much, Even less then Our Expansion will, AoM added like 5 Lands…. 10 levels… 0 New classes… 0 New Races, and Even then EQ2 charge u to access the classes as a Extra even if u Purchase the expansion so, no winning there.

WoD only released half finished with bad Servers It litterally gave u a Levelling process for Months before you saw any raiding.

Im sorry, but its the NORMAL price for a Expansion Flat out to say its a “rip off” then EVERY MMO is a Rip off, the games b2p, it costs u NOTHING to play with 0 Sub model it doesnt restrict u in the slightest to play completely free after the purchase.

u’ve saved urself $50 within 5 months of gameplay BECAUSE of that alone! the expansion is cheaper then Any other form of entertainment and 99% of Games on the market so thw argument is absolutely invalid.

People just hate on it cause it costs money, People do not want to pay they want it handed to them therefore they get ungrateful when met with any form of costs. Pure igorence to what you get, they give u SO MUCH Free they owe you nothing, 16 content releases in 1 year for free to players, im sorry but dont act like u’ve been treated badly

I can understand SOME points people put forward, but to be inflicting this much rage at the company and refusual to pay because of them is just pure stupidity.

Pay or Dont pay, Stop making a Racket about it.. We dont care ur Discision is not affecting us, Make ur decision and Stick to it by all means but We dont want the 5000 Posts made saying the same stuff

ANet and NCSoft are not dropping the price the only likely thing to happen is they’ll give u a Core game code to give away to someone who wants to try the game or give u a free Vanilla level account for some other reasoning if they do anything about this

Game and Expansion are both well priced for what your really getting for ur money.

The people out there moaning Just need to Learn this tbh.

DarkSyze.8627:

" Responsible persons are mature people who have taken charge of themselves and their conduct, who own their actions and own up to them—who answer for them "
William J. Bennett

" Great companies have high cultures of accountability… "
Steve Ballmer

“With great power comes great responsibility” – Uncle Ben

To the op. I am a professional artist and I have had people love my art and hate my art. It doesn’t matter to me one way or the other if people like or dislike my own art. I would do it regardless. Being an artist requires strong skin.

If Anet or it’s employee’s can not handle criticism/rage and only want the love then they are in the wrong business. Choosing to be in a creative profession is not for people who can’t take harsh words.

Conncept.7638:

Unloveableone.6082:

THave you ever created a work of art? A painting? A musical piece? A game? A story?

How would you feel if your hard work and what you’ve dedicated a year or two to, was ridiculed and hated before it was even released?

Yeah actually, career artist here, second generation after my mother who was a classical portrait and landscape artist.

And you know what she taught me?

If you can’t take critique, keep your art, to yourself.

Critique is as much a part of the artistic process as concept and creation. Unless you are somehow an immaculate and perfect artist, basically unless you are God Himself, your art warrants critique and you should accept and consider it gracefully regardless of how and where it is given. My greatest artistic mentor once told a student that he didn’t have what it takes for an art career, the kid said he appreciated his honesty, walked out of class and over to the administration building, where he immediately changed his major. And there have never been any hard feelings between that student and the professor. The kid may not have had the artistic talent, but he had the artistically driven mentality that accepts, rather than takes offense to, critique.

Unloveableone.6082:

You don’t want to pay the full price for the pre-order?
Don’t. That is your choice. But they owe you NOTHING.

Completely false, they do owe people something. They stated for six months, since its first announcement, that the expansion would require the purchase of the base game. They owe people who purchased or supported the game, based on that, another means to purchase the game for a price comparably fair to those who are getting the base game rolled in for free. If they had never made any such a statement, then you would have a point, but since they did, they have an obligation to keep their word if they want to maintain the respect and trust of their playerbase.

Unloveableone.6082:

How would you feel if when you announced that it was ready for purchase, people spat on it. People lashed out at you on not only your official accounts, but your personal ones to.

But being complete jerks about all of this is revolting and reflects poorly on us as a community. And think of the devs. They have feelings too. And I’m sure many are upset right now. This may just be an expansion to you, but it’s much more than that to them.

Now all that said, this is completely deplorable behavior and I hope ANet takes just action against the accounts who have done this. Those are their private, not professional, accounts. This is like showing up at someones home and screaming in to their house from the street about the dealings of the business they work for, and worse, doing so when you don’t even know the persons opinions or involvement in the incident in question. In real life, this would be considered harassment, possibly even assault, and I wouldn’t even scoff at a permanent ban for these people.

However, as for you, OP. You are a completely despicable wormtongue for having made this thread as an underhanded attack against people whose opinions you disagree with. Rather than supporting your opinion with any amount of logic or evidence like a civilized and intelligent person, you have attempted to vilify those you disagree with with emotionally charged stereotyping base on a tiny subset of people that the majority of those who share the opinion you disagree with, would never have anything to do with.

I respect the majority of the people on these forums who share your opinion, even though I don’t agree with them, but not you, you don’t give any, and you don’t deserve any it in return.

Am I supposed to care? No? Okay.

Barquiel.5610:

To the op. I am a professional artist and I have had people love my art and hate my art. It doesn’t matter to me one way or the other if people like or dislike my own art. I would do it regardless. Being an artist requires strong skin.

If Anet or it’s employee’s can not handle criticism/rage and only want the love then they are in the wrong business. Choosing to be in a creative profession is not for people who can’t take harsh words.

The point of my whole post was about people harassing them over it. Not because they can’t take criticism, which they did quite well.

Harassing someone because you don’t like his Art/Music/Game/Etc is pathetic.