Guild Wars 2

Galen Grey.4709:

Jerus.4350:

Offair.2563:

I am still trying to figure out the rage about getting a core game copy for free. People surely didnt mind to get a 2nd or 3rd account when it was on sale for 10$ ish. So why moan about a freebie?

And yes Anet are people too, just like us. Maybe it is a bit over priced but none of you have been forced to pay more then the game it self.

There, my 2 cents on this matter.

To me it’s pretty much because they’ve offered no real incentive to pre-order. You get to test their game for them, that’s your reward for giving them money now. It’s pretty typical to offer something for a pre-order, and with the inclusion of the base game they have offered a pretty sweet deal to new players. So it’s just another instance of them treating their new players while ignoring their current players, and people are upset about that.

If I had intentions of buying the expansion (which with the current amount of content even $5 to me is too much as I simply don’t intend to play it) I surely wouldn’t be pre-ordering it because there’s no reason to, why pull my wallet out now when I get the exact same thing if I pull it out at launch.

Why should they? inst the actual expansion incentive enough? Gw2 didnt give any incentives with its standard edition either yet there was no uproar over it!

I dont know where this is coming from, standard editions dont have goodies they’re just the product, thats what deluxe and collectors editions are for after all!

care to point at all these awesome insentives to sweeten the pot other MMOs do with their pre-order programs? because I am not seeing any really. Only thing I can find is Warlords of draenor which offers a instant level 90 option though it wasnt even a pre-purchase reward since its still available now and I have a feeling they did it more for them then for the players considering mists of pandaria had the lowest sales of any WoW expansion I guess it was a good move for them to include the instant level up so that people who skipped over that expansion could still buy and enjoy Dreanor by using that instant LeveL up to bridge the gab skipping over pandaria caused.

No, the expansion isn’t incentive at all in this discussion. They’re asking for my money right now but not offering any reason. Why wouldn’t I sit on my money till release?

Maybe it isn’t as common practice as I thought, but god I don’t know why if you’re talking digital download. If you’re talking hard copies, well your incentive is to reserve it, so that if they’re out of stock on release you have yours. But, in EQ we always got some trinket of appreciation for the advanced purchase. So maybe my view is just tainted.

But, that doesn’t change the fact that there’s no incentive to buy now.

Citation needed. Where is the harassment? Or is this Gamergate all over again with Anita Sarkeesian?

This blog post is nothing but carebear nonsense. Anet’s marketing fouled up, and the customers have legitimate complaints. This isn’t about the artists. Making it about them is insulting.

Quote from a reddit response:

This article patronizes the community. I felt as if someone grabbed my hand and tried to explain how a light switch works. You’re talking to grown men and women. Speak accordingly. This is probably one of the most degrading towards the community’s dignity articles I have ever seen posted here and frankly OP, you should be ashamed of projecting your false sense of reason and fanboying emotions on us.

Also quote from one of the devs featured in the tweets:

Kuraine 29 points 14 hours ago*

I can’t speak for my fellow developers, but I do want to clarify that my tweet was only partially related to the preorder reactions. I’ve never claimed to be harassed, and in fact the community has always been wonderful to me, though my quote could be taken that way when viewed in context of other tweets. I’ve also been resonating with the grief over the recent shooting & other personal unrelated-to-my-job things.

Notice how they deny ever claiming harassment. Guilt tripping your own customers and painting the community as a violent hate mob is just disgusting. These devs were never harassed, and someone is just leading you all down the garden path of lies.

reddit thread:
http://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/3aamx8/gw2_lash_and_love/

Community got pretty toxic/childish…………Kinda sad, this game´s main consumer used to be alot more understanding, rather than being straight out toxic and forcing a childish behavior which does not make sense in any way……….

zengara.8301:

Community got rather toxic…………

No it didn’t. Show me where the harassment occurred. Explain to me how this is in any way about the artists, and not the way the company overall marketed their product.

That reddit answer sums up my feelings on the whole thing :
http://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/3aax7m/we_love_you_anet/

Xenon.4537:

zengara.8301:

Community got rather toxic…………

No it didn’t. Show me where the harassment occurred. Explain to me how this is in any way about the artists, and not the way the company overall marketed their product.

lol, just said that the community got rather toxic and childish, which have been proven again and again, and now you are just asking me to provide all the evidence for how guild wars is marketing their products?? Lol……Does not make sense…….Well, I guess your post alone was prove :p

zengara.8301:

Xenon.4537:

zengara.8301:

Community got rather toxic…………

No it didn’t. Show me where the harassment occurred. Explain to me how this is in any way about the artists, and not the way the company overall marketed their product.

lol, just said that the community got rather toxic and childish, which have been proven again and again, and now you are just asking me to provide all the evidence for how guild wars is marketing their products?? Lol……Does not make sense…….Well, I guess your post alone was prove :p

If you read my post again, you will see that it asks for evidence of harassment, not evidence of marketing… i don’t know where you got that from. If you weren’t referring to harassment, then what exactly did you mean by toxicity? Your post was honestly rather vague, and all I did was attempt to read the context via the thread in which you posted.

Just FYI, I’m NOT mad at the DEVELOPERS, they’re cool, they do all the hard work, they make things happen, things look good, put things together.

No, no, it’s the MARKETING that decide to use these bullkitten pricing tactics.
I doubt the devs get anything out of it besides their normal work pay.

Xenon.4537:

zengara.8301:

Xenon.4537:

zengara.8301:

Community got rather toxic…………

No it didn’t. Show me where the harassment occurred. Explain to me how this is in any way about the artists, and not the way the company overall marketed their product.

lol, just said that the community got rather toxic and childish, which have been proven again and again, and now you are just asking me to provide all the evidence for how guild wars is marketing their products?? Lol……Does not make sense…….Well, I guess your post alone was prove :p

If you read my post again, you will see that it asks for evidence of harassment, not evidence of marketing… i don’t know where you got that from. If you weren’t referring to harassment, then what exactly did you mean by toxicity? Your post was honestly rather vague, and all I did was attempt to read the context via the thread in which you posted.

Your re post was rather vague aswell, all I am saying is that the community in the game got rather toxic…….lol

zengara.8301:

Community got pretty toxic/childish…………Kinda sad, this game´s main consumer used to be alot more understanding, rather than being straight out toxic and forcing a childish behavior which does not make sense in any way……….

I see you went back to add some more context and information to your post after the fact… Well now it sounds like you just want to paint everyone with a broad brush. Players have legitimate complaints, voice them in the only way they can, and they are childish for it? What would you suggest? They just shut up and buy something despite reservations, or else leave the game?

Xenon.4537:

zengara.8301:

Community got pretty toxic/childish…………Kinda sad, this game´s main consumer used to be alot more understanding, rather than being straight out toxic and forcing a childish behavior which does not make sense in any way……….

I see you went back to add some more context and information to your post after the fact… Well now it sounds like you just want to paint everyone with a broad brush. Players have legitimate complaints, voice them in the only way they can, and they are childish for it? What would you suggest? They just shut up and buy something despite reservations, or else leave the game?

Never said that, I would request a better solution than fill every map and every discussion on forum with how much they hate Guild Wars and are probably just going to wildstar…..and FYI, probably going to leave this, I see where you are going with this, creating arguments for arguments sake, and tbh I really dont feel like playing who is the best keyboard warrior today

corps are not people.

You can still love someone and beat them up when they do something bad.
That’s how me and my brother got along. :o

Devs aren’t the ones who set the prices tho so the beatings are becoming misplaced.
It’s not something unheard of though~ try working support/sales for any call center and getting yelled at for every mistake your company has done that you have no control over. I think some of them just aren’t used to it and may need thicker skin.

Arenanet are not people. Arenanet is a subsidiary of NCSoft. It is a corporation.
People work for this corporation, yes they happen to be human people, so what? When a company does something people don’t like I’m afraid it’s the fault of the human people who work for that company. Now you can say well, perhaps its just a few people in that company who are potentially either terrible at marketing, terrible at PR, terrible at advertising or terrible at understanding the players they’re making video games for, or all of the above, but then I should hope the structure of the business is such that when people make bad calls other people are able to intervene. This really expands into a whole other issue of the western workplace resembling a dictatorship rather than a democracy but never mind that for now.

The point is that if you work for a company exploiting child labour and you do nothing about it but go in to work every day and do your job really well, then you’re still part of the problem I’m afraid. If you work for a company that tries to fleece its customers and you do nothing about it but go in to work every day and do your job really well, then you’re still part of the problem too.

Corporations don’t make decisions. People make decisions.

If anything, I think a lot of the people who work at Anet should also be pretty annoyed. After all, it isn’t the fantastic artists, amazing map designers, great composers, voice actors, writers and programmers who are giving the game a bad reputation. It’s whoever is behind these constant, blatantly obvious and often insulting cash grabs and the really bizarre attitude to secrecy who are alienating the players.

If corporations are going to treat people like nothing more than an endless stream of cash to be raked in then it should come as no surprise that in turn people will begin to dehumanize the corporations (and the people who make them up) based on their inhuman behaviour.

Arena Net are not people, they are a company.

What next? Give the company a right to vote and freedom of religion?

Aedelric.1287:

Arena Net are not people, they are a company.

What next? Give the company a right to vote and freedom of religion?

And the company is run by people who allready have the right to vote and freedom of religion. Thus Anet are people too.

Srry they are going “this is business nothing personal” way so customers going the same way too.

People are whining about the marketing, not the dev work. Devs should be able to see that.

Idiots will always exist especially when they can be anonymous on the internet, they should realize that and ignore those people.

Anet isn’t a charity they are a business and if customers aren’t satisfied they have the right to voice their concerns. You’re speaking of harassment of devs? I’ve seen nobody harass any Devs and if so it’s such a small amount of people that you’re missing the point. People are upset about the pricing where are you seeing people harass for example artists which would be completely irrelevant.

zengara.8301:

Xenon.4537:

zengara.8301:

Community got pretty toxic/childish…………Kinda sad, this game´s main consumer used to be alot more understanding, rather than being straight out toxic and forcing a childish behavior which does not make sense in any way……….

I see you went back to add some more context and information to your post after the fact… Well now it sounds like you just want to paint everyone with a broad brush. Players have legitimate complaints, voice them in the only way they can, and they are childish for it? What would you suggest? They just shut up and buy something despite reservations, or else leave the game?

Never said that, I would request a better solution than fill every map and every discussion on forum with how much they hate Guild Wars and are probably just going to wildstar…..and FYI, probably going to leave this, I see where you are going with this, creating arguments for arguments sake, and tbh I really dont feel like playing who is the best keyboard warrior today

You know what, I apologize. Clearly I jumped the gun when responding to your first post. I just don’t think the community is toxic, I think this is just how the internet works. People complain and argue… It’s human nature.

rapthorne.7345:

I truly am surprised that seemingly overnight veteran players have totally forgotten the sheer amount of love and passion that ANet employees have pumped in to the game and are pumping in to HoT.

Never before, in over a decade of MMO gaming, have a come across an MMORPG with such attention to detail, quality and charm as GW2. It’s clear the game has been crafted as a child of passion and love, not as a money making tool. I’ve fallen in love with GW2 and the people that makle GW2 happen, and will gladly support them for years to come if it means the game I love keeps getting bigger and better.

What? ANET are the same developers that forced NPE on all players including Vets, simply to appeal to their Eastern Consumers… then they didnt evensay a single thing about our complaints until HoT reveal months later…

Jerus.4350:

No, the expansion isn’t incentive at all in this discussion. They’re asking for my money right now but not offering any reason. Why wouldn’t I sit on my money till release?

Maybe it isn’t as common practice as I thought, but god I don’t know why if you’re talking digital download. If you’re talking hard copies, well your incentive is to reserve it, so that if they’re out of stock on release you have yours. But, in EQ we always got some trinket of appreciation for the advanced purchase. So maybe my view is just tainted.

But, that doesn’t change the fact that there’s no incentive to buy now.

Yep there is you get to try it before everyone else during beta events + a little title which granted is not going to change anyone’s life. But actually I am happy they’re not giving away anything spectacular if you prepurchase, especially in light of there being a lack of information on what the expansion offers. the worst that could happen is having people pre purchase the expansion for goodies only to find out they dont appreciate the actual content when its released.

I honestly dont see this aspect as a bad thing.

Galen Grey.4709:

But actually I am happy they’re not giving away anything spectacular if you prepurchase, especially in light of there being a lack of information on what the expansion offers. the worst that could happen is having people pre purchase the expansion for goodies only to find out they dont appreciate the actual content when its released.

I honestly dont see this aspect as a bad thing.

I agree completely.

Xenon.4537:

Citation needed. Where is the harassment? Or is this Gamergate all over again with Anita Sarkeesian?

lol citation needed? do you think all the journalists currently perplexed by the over reaction of fans is all fantasy? OP’s post is all fantasy which also includes comments by the devs themselves! or Ruby who posted on her twitter how she got angry in game mail about the whole pre-purchase thing.

Galen Grey.4709:

Xenon.4537:

Citation needed. Where is the harassment? Or is this Gamergate all over again with Anita Sarkeesian?

lol citation needed? do you think all the journalists currently perplexed by the over reaction of fans is all fantasy? OP’s post is all fantasy which also includes comments by the devs themselves! or Ruby who posted on her twitter how she got angry in game mail about the whole pre-purchase thing.

The writer of the article quoted devs in a manner to support the article’s position. At least one of those devs has since stated that they were not so targeted/affected and that the writer used the quote out of context.

When the, “journalists,” have to lie to make their point they arent really journalists and dont really have a point.

Wow. So, the people moaning on other threads are truly SO toxic that they can’t bear a different topic saying something positive, without being overwhelmed by the need to hijack it and turn it into a continuation of their ‘complaint’ threads.

Really, go post in those other threads instead of here. This is not the thread for it and as such it’s completely OT. Everyone is entitled to their opinion but everyone is NOT entitled to hijack other people’s threads in order to continue arguments they started elsewhere.

Greyhound.2058:

Wow. So, the people moaning on other threads are truly SO toxic that they can’t bear a different topic saying something positive, without being overwhelmed by the need to hijack it and turn it into a continuation of their ‘complaint’ threads.

Really, go post in those other threads instead of here. This is not the thread for it and as such it’s completely OT. Everyone is entitled to their opinion but everyone is NOT entitled to hijack other people’s threads in order to continue arguments they started elsewhere.

+1

quaniesan.8497:

corps are not people.

People comprise a corporation.

Just like some- (if not most) Canadians would get kitten if I said “Canada sucks”, employees of a corporation will often feel the sting of anything said about their corporation.

I feel bad for the at how the community reacted to this, however they deserve this wake up call badly. Anet thought they could do no wrong considering most of the forums are all white knights and brown nosers all trying to be Anets bae. They needed to be reminded they have a very large community and most of them are loooooong time players such as myself. I played the GW1 alpha,beta GW2 alpha. beta and I have never seen such disregard for their community as much as Anet is doing now.

I am speaking for most of the community veterans here when I say nobody is angry at the price for new players. But for veteran players we already own the game and thus are getting almost no content vs a new player and from what we have seen paying full retail price is not worth it considering all we have really seen so far is the free content. The beta wasn’t really a beta at all it was a demo and a stress test that’s all.

TL/DR They got punched in the face and weren’t ready for it. I feel bad for how they feel but I also saw this coming and think they had it coming. When you ignore your main customer base for as long as you have Anet this is what happens.

Welcome back to reality Anet you have more customers then the ones in your forums and Twitch stream lets hope you go back to how you use to be and actually listen to them again.

Ashen.2907:

Galen Grey.4709:

Xenon.4537:

Citation needed. Where is the harassment? Or is this Gamergate all over again with Anita Sarkeesian?

lol citation needed? do you think all the journalists currently perplexed by the over reaction of fans is all fantasy? OP’s post is all fantasy which also includes comments by the devs themselves! or Ruby who posted on her twitter how she got angry in game mail about the whole pre-purchase thing.

The writer of the article quoted devs in a manner to support the article’s position. At least one of those devs has since stated that they were not so targeted/affected and that the writer used the quote out of context.

When the, “journalists,” have to lie to make their point they arent really journalists and dont really have a point.

I just personally checked each and every one of the quoted twitters. Not one of them claims to have been quoted out of context, the closest message there is one saying they dont feel personally attacked but later on clarifies that some comments are indeed hurtful.

so unless the quote you mentioned was posted outside of twitter the journalist didnt lie to make his point.

Ironically the most common complaint about this whole saga is people complaining they feel they should not be paying for the core game cause they already own it which is clearly the real lie after its been explained over and over again that the core game is being given away for free not against payment.

Still I dont think anyones opinion should be disregarded even if they exaggerate a bit to make their point. They might be behaving unfairly but there is still a reason behind their actions / statements.

Galen Grey.4709:

Ashen.2907:

Galen Grey.4709:

Xenon.4537:

Citation needed. Where is the harassment? Or is this Gamergate all over again with Anita Sarkeesian?

lol citation needed? do you think all the journalists currently perplexed by the over reaction of fans is all fantasy? OP’s post is all fantasy which also includes comments by the devs themselves! or Ruby who posted on her twitter how she got angry in game mail about the whole pre-purchase thing.

The writer of the article quoted devs in a manner to support the article’s position. At least one of those devs has since stated that they were not so targeted/affected and that the writer used the quote out of context.

When the, “journalists,” have to lie to make their point they arent really journalists and dont really have a point.

I just personally checked each and every one of the quoted twitters. Not one of them claims to have been quoted out of context, the closest message there is one saying they dont feel personally attacked but later on clarifies that some comments are indeed hurtful.

so unless the quote you mentioned was posted outside of twitter the journalist didnt lie to make his point.

It was posted in the reddit thread linked in this thread.

rapthorne.7345:

I truly am surprised that seemingly overnight veteran players have totally forgotten the sheer amount of love and passion that ANet employees have pumped in to the game and are pumping in to HoT.

Never before, in over a decade of MMO gaming, have a come across an MMORPG with such attention to detail, quality and charm as GW2. It’s clear the game has been crafted as a child of passion and love, not as a money making tool. I’ve fallen in love with GW2 and the people that makle GW2 happen, and will gladly support them for years to come if it means the game I love keeps getting bigger and better.

it boils down to 2 things.. when people compare HoT to other MMO expansions, or even GW1 expansions/campaigns, they see less, but feel they are paying the same amount (not counting subscriptions)

GW1 campaigns were $50, and they were standalone games with a new continent with over a dozen new zones, 2 new professions, hundreds of new skills, at least 13 more missions, MULTIPLE new PVP modes , new end game areas.

GW1’s expansion was what, $30? or was it $40? It included 4 new regions (at least 3 new maps for each region), 11 major primary quests that were comparable to Missions from the campaign, , over 100 new skills, 40+ new armor sets, 18 new dungeons including a new elite dungeon with 4 wings

HoT is including 1 new region with at least 3 new maps (compared to 4 new regions with at least 3 new maps each in EotN), 1 new profession (compared to 2 new professions in Factions and Nightfall), no announced new dungeons or end game elite areas (only vague promises at “challenging group content”), the mastery system (at least the HoT masteries, the Tyria Masteries might be core game?), elite specializations and a handful of new skills that are coming with elite specializations, Guild Halls (with only 2 options compared to the over 1 dozen options in GW1), 1 new PVP mode, 1 new borderland map. $50 pricetag base.

Seems a bit small. If there were more areas, announced dungeons, more than 1 new PVP mode, more choices of guild halls, I think people would be stomaching $50 up front easier.

The other major issue is that it feels like new players who’ve never gotten GW2 before are getting a better deal than veterans, since veterans have had to pay for both the core game at $60, and the expansion at $50. New Players get both at $50, and furthermore, there are people who bought the core game at $10 or $20 at some point after the expansion was announced, that now learn they didn’t need to buy the core game, it’d have been given to them freely with just the expansion price

Does an artist, or writer, or systems designer who happens to work at Arenanet and tag up in the Arenanet guild from time to time deserve to get chewed out over it? No.

Does a community coordinator like Rubi or Gaile? No, not really, though they should be a person you contact POLITELY about your gripes because they can get that feedback to the right people in a constructive way. Particularly Gaile, I mean it is her job to be the liason between the community and the development team, you just have to remember she’s the messenger, so don’t kill the messenger.

Now if you manage to know the exact person responsible for the marketing? Yeah they probably deserve an earful and PROBABLY deserve it not being in the most polite way.

But since most of us won’t know those really specific people, our best option is to politely tell Gaile why we think the marketing people jacked up, what we think are better options, and she’ll give that feedback to them in a way more likely to receive a positive response (do they deserve getting chewed out? probably. Will it result in positive response? Probably not)

Ashen.2907:

Galen Grey.4709:

Ashen.2907:

Galen Grey.4709:

Xenon.4537:

Citation needed. Where is the harassment? Or is this Gamergate all over again with Anita Sarkeesian?

lol citation needed? do you think all the journalists currently perplexed by the over reaction of fans is all fantasy? OP’s post is all fantasy which also includes comments by the devs themselves! or Ruby who posted on her twitter how she got angry in game mail about the whole pre-purchase thing.

The writer of the article quoted devs in a manner to support the article’s position. At least one of those devs has since stated that they were not so targeted/affected and that the writer used the quote out of context.

When the, “journalists,” have to lie to make their point they arent really journalists and dont really have a point.

I just personally checked each and every one of the quoted twitters. Not one of them claims to have been quoted out of context, the closest message there is one saying they dont feel personally attacked but later on clarifies that some comments are indeed hurtful.

so unless the quote you mentioned was posted outside of twitter the journalist didnt lie to make his point.

It was posted in the reddit thread linked in this thread.

Okey found it, its alot closer to your claims but still doesnt say the author quoted the dev out of context, it says that people might take the quote in context with other tweets they made and incorrectly understand the dev implied the community has been harassing when they dont feel they were.

Author of the Article OP posted didnt remove any context of what was said and didnt twist what was being said either ergo they didnt lie to get across a false point.

Lets not forget the article didnt quote 1 person but multiple too.

Anyhow you dont need the devs to tell you the community is going too far. Should be pretty clear that devs are passionate about their job and were expecting a positive reaction. Bet some couldnt wait to start seeing reactions coming in so they could rejoice together with the community. Instead a move of good will (giving away the game for free) backfired and instead they found themselves being essentially called a number of things that naturally hurt, especially in context of yourself having the best of intentions.

Galen Grey.4709:

Xenon.4537:

Citation needed. Where is the harassment? Or is this Gamergate all over again with Anita Sarkeesian?

lol citation needed? do you think all the journalists currently perplexed by the over reaction of fans is all fantasy?

Just because a bunch of journalists are perplexed means nothing. That is argumentum ad populum.

Galen Grey.4709:

OP’s post is all fantasy which also includes comments by the devs themselves!

http://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/3aamx8/gw2_lash_and_love/csbep7t

Galen Grey.4709:

or Ruby who posted on her twitter how she got angry in game mail about the whole pre-purchase thing.

Would you kindly provide a link to that hate mail?

Xenon.4537:

Galen Grey.4709:

Xenon.4537:

Citation needed. Where is the harassment? Or is this Gamergate all over again with Anita Sarkeesian?

lol citation needed? do you think all the journalists currently perplexed by the over reaction of fans is all fantasy?

Just because a bunch of journalists are perplexed means nothing. That is argumentum ad populum.

But of course as usual these things are always one side. The side you dont agree with is always the one with the fallacy. A bunch of journalist say the community is over reacting then it must be argumentum ad populum. There is no way the complaints of the community itself being argumentum ad populum. I dont know considering the complaint I’ve seen repeated the most is people feel they shouldnt pay for the core game again I am not quite sure I agree which side is guilty of that fallacy really.

Xenon.4537:

Galen Grey.4709:

or Ruby who posted on her twitter how she got angry in game mail about the whole pre-purchase thing.

Would you kindly provide a link to that hate mail?

She didnt specifically share the hate mail but she did point out it was and I quote “yelling at her” doubt she said that about a respectful mail. She also added another tweet saying she sometimes regrets sharing her accounts with the world for this reason. which is sad

Galen Grey.4709:

She also added another tweet saying she sometimes regrets sharing her accounts with the world for this reason. which is sad

I agree that it is sad.

It was not a good idea for her to do so.

Without corroboration her claim is no more evidence than anyone else claiming the opposite.

Galen Grey.4709:

Jerus.4350:

No, the expansion isn’t incentive at all in this discussion. They’re asking for my money right now but not offering any reason. Why wouldn’t I sit on my money till release?

Maybe it isn’t as common practice as I thought, but god I don’t know why if you’re talking digital download. If you’re talking hard copies, well your incentive is to reserve it, so that if they’re out of stock on release you have yours. But, in EQ we always got some trinket of appreciation for the advanced purchase. So maybe my view is just tainted.

But, that doesn’t change the fact that there’s no incentive to buy now.

Yep there is you get to try it before everyone else during beta events + a little title which granted is not going to change anyone’s life. But actually I am happy they’re not giving away anything spectacular if you prepurchase, especially in light of there being a lack of information on what the expansion offers. the worst that could happen is having people pre purchase the expansion for goodies only to find out they dont appreciate the actual content when its released.

I honestly dont see this aspect as a bad thing.

You got me there. Good point. Still strikes me as strange that anyone would pre-order but I guess those that are hyped up can throw their money now.

Like I said, I’m just tainted by EQ I guess, they certainly treated us well, why I stuck around for 15 years.

My empathy for you ends when you are trying your best to separate my money from my wallet.

Odyssey.2613:

My empathy for you ends when you are trying your best to separate my money from my wallet.

Anet didn’t call you on the phone wanting you to buy a service. If you don’t like the product don’t get it. No one is pushing you to do anything, you liberal.
____________________________________________

I find it hilarious that people compare this game to other subscription games or that the game should be cheaper than it already is. The people who bought the base game will likely get their money back and buy the expansion instead. If you don’t think the expansion is worth it, then don’t buy it and continue with the base game for free. I on the other hand, like what I saw and will preorder it.

Especially now, knowing I can play beta and can cancel the preorder at any time (likely wont).

Greyhound.2058:

Wow. So, the people moaning on other threads are truly SO toxic that they can’t bear a different topic saying something positive, without being overwhelmed by the need to hijack it and turn it into a continuation of their ‘complaint’ threads.

Really, go post in those other threads instead of here. This is not the thread for it and as such it’s completely OT. Everyone is entitled to their opinion but everyone is NOT entitled to hijack other people’s threads in order to continue arguments they started elsewhere.

+1

Saiyan.1704:

Anet didn’t call you on the phone wanting you to buy a service.

You’re not understanding the argument.

If you don’t like the product don’t get it. No one is pushing you to do anything,

I haven’t. I’ve been voicing my displeasure with my wallet ever since the announcement. You are implying coercion. I, nor anyone, has ever claimed this to be the case. You are really failing to understand the core reasoning of the xpac debate.

you liberal

You really shouldn’t throw out phrases when you don’t understand their meaning and aren’t able to apply their correct usage within context.
Referencing an urban dictionary instead of an actual dictionary doesn’t bolster your case much, either.

Have a great day bud!

DanielMc.7204:

I, for one, have no gripe with the developers of GW2. I agree that they have done a marvelous job presenting us with an exciting, fun, and immersive environment; they are to be commended for their hard work and efforts. With that said, I believe most people posting on the HoT pricing realize that it is not the developers who set the price nor put together the “packages” for the product. Of course the developers are people and so are those in marketing and it is to those marketing folks that players (who by the way are people and are entitled to express their opinions, but hopefully in a civilized manner) have directed their ire. It is not about “entitlement.” It IS about fairness. I have no problem with the $50 price tag for the “Basic” edition of the expansion (I know many have said it is not worth the price for the limited content. But I fail to understand how they can know this, since the game has yet to be released – by the way, Devs, I think the glimpses of HoT that I’ve seen are incredible! ). The fact that it includes a copy of the core game for new players makes a lot of sense, as well. It’s the best way to keep bringing new people into the game. Two points are crucial here:

1. It has been explained that existing players will not receive a new copy of the core game with the expansion. Fine. That makes complete sense. Then offer existing players a character slot for the new profession at the Basic level. That IS NOT an unreasonable request.

2. Change your pricing structure somewhat.
– $40-$45 for the Basic expansion only – no character slot.
– $50 for the Basic expansion and 1 additional character slot.
-The other tiers can remain the same.

The saying goes: “It’s not personal, it’s business.” ANet and NCSoft are businesses at the end of the day and we are consumers. As a consumer, it is my choice to support or not support a business based upon the “value” that they offer. The developers have offered us a marvelous game that has much value associated with it. The marketers have offered “veteran” players little to no value from a monetary standpoint and have totally hosed new players who forked out $10 in preparation for the expansion (thank goodness it was only $10). I do feel for those new players who bought the core game at $10 only to find out that it wasn’t really necessary. Maybe those folks deserve a little “love” from the company for being mislead? At the end of the day, I will likely buy the “Basic” expansion, but will curtail my buying of gems (with RL cash) as a way of limiting my financial support in the future.

An excellent level-headed post, I agree completely.

To the OP – as usual things get blown out of all proportion on the internet, when the bottom line was the new players getting the base game for free when they might have bought it very recently on a sale, and veteran players having no use for the “bundled” base game.

I totally respect and enjoy the amazing work the devs have put in and continue to put into this game, despite whatever constraits they may be facing. But there should have been a better deal for veteran players – even something as simple as a spare character slot or a bunch of gems to buy one.

Odyssey.2613:

My empathy for you ends when you are trying your best to separate my money from my wallet.

Because…that’s how businesses work? Funny. I suppose you have some amazing, world changing business model that doesn’t rely on turning a profit, then?

The irony in this statement is that when coupled with the overwhelming sentiment that Anet ‘owes veteran players for loyalty’, you are flat out denying the company that has provided quite a HUGE amount of content over three years for free the same sense of ‘loyalty’.

Huggywuggles.2814:

Odyssey.2613:

My empathy for you ends when you are trying your best to separate my money from my wallet.

Because…that’s how businesses work? Funny. I suppose you have some amazing, world changing business model that doesn’t rely on turning a profit, then?

The irony in this statement is that when coupled with the overwhelming sentiment that Anet ‘owes veteran players for loyalty’, you are flat out denying the company that has provided quite a HUGE amount of content over three years for free the same sense of ‘loyalty’.

I think his point was that when engaging in a financial transaction with a for profit business empathy is not a factor.

When buying a car do you allow the thought that the salesman, or manager, seem like nice guys to convince you to buy a particular model at price that you are not comfortable with?

Note that Anet adheres to his concept as they (rightfully) do not allow empathy to override financial considerations by giving the expansion at a reduced price for those who cannot afford $50.

Raire.7983:

The posters being called “whiners”, “crybabies” and now “jerks” are people, too.

See what you did there…
We are all people,people.
Even the entitled ones.
The op is yet another attempt to generalisation,and generalisation
is the root of all evil in every debate.
Ofc it’s not cool to harass a dev in game,or anywhere else.
So,yes what was done to the dev was wrong.
Yes.They are human too.As are we.
And yes,this is my opinion now I’m entitled to it,the marketing
and pricing of HoT should be a case study on how not to market
your product.
I mean no disrespect to the people.

They’re also all fully grown men and women who do a job and when the job is determined to be inadequate either by the customers or the employer they need to be able to handle some criticism. Even if they have worked very hard at it. Real life doesn’t give you a pass for your hard work. Sorry but that’s just the reality of how things work in the world.

Please do not assume that because a few players are harassing employees that means the whole HoT protest is. The way I see it GW2 may not have a huge fanbase (compared to other MMOs) but they have a very passionate one that cares about the game and doesn’t what the company to go down the road they are heading. If Arena cared about the game half as much as the fans, we would have gotten a response by now. Either way if they respond positively (if at all), everyone benefits.

" Responsible persons are mature people who have taken charge of themselves and their conduct, who own their actions and own up to them—who answer for them "
William J. Bennett

" Great companies have high cultures of accountability… "
Steve Ballmer

This thread is absolutely unbelievable. The developers didn’t set the price. They also don’t deserve the hate, and in most cases, they haven’t. This is done by marketing and is done completely over their head. They likely have absolutely no say whatsoever in what the pricing is like.

Vocalizing our complaints is better for the developers than not saying anything and just not buying the expansion. We’re complaining because we want to buy the expansion, but feel as though we’re not getting our money’s worth if we do. By staying silent and not purchasing, all this looks like to management is that the expansion conceptually failed, and the developers did a sub-par job at it. This likely leaves the people who actually built the expansion at a loss – possibly even losing their jobs – and it doesn’t improve the situation for anyone. It also keeps management who made these stupid decisions unaccountable in their minds, and does nothing to change the business approach that led them to get backlash to begin with.

Vocalizing our concerns gets communications teams involved and the issue looked into further, and the blame is only traced back to management and marketing for failing on the pricing and business logic. You can’t accuse a dev of doing their job poorly by low sales on a game that hasn’t been released yet. That lies solely on management and marketing.

So if the OP actually gives a kitten and wants to treat ANet’s employees with respect as human beings, he should encourage civil criticism and support the vocalization as a mean of protecting the developers who bring us high-quality content. If there are complaints on the content itself, like bugs, bad design decisions, etc., then it’s also the responsibility of the developers to accept the fact they made mistakes (we all do, especially in programming and development), be thankful for the feedback, and fix it.

Yes, there’s no sense in just insulting random employees, but the people who actually worked kitten this content have nothing to do with the bullcat attitude from ANet’s marketing and management teams regarding the pricing and communications policies pertaining to HoT.

Huggywuggles.2814:

The irony in this statement is that when coupled with the overwhelming sentiment that Anet ‘owes veteran players for loyalty’, you are flat out denying the company that has provided quite a HUGE amount of content over three years for free the same sense of ‘loyalty’.

The double irony in this statement is that it hasn’t been free. It never was free. It was financed by them dang dirty entitled vets dropping serious $cash$ in the gemstore.

Ashen.2907:

I think his point was that when engaging in a financial transaction with a for profit business empathy is not a factor.

When buying a car do you allow the thought that the salesman, or manager, seem like nice guys to convince you to buy a particular model at price that you are not comfortable with?

Note that Anet adheres to his concept as they (rightfully) do not allow empathy to override financial considerations by giving the expansion at a reduced price for those who cannot afford $50.

Ding Ding Ding.
Winner Winner Chicken Dinner.

Unloveableone.6082:

THave you ever created a work of art? A painting? A musical piece? A game? A story?

How would you feel if your hard work and what you’ve dedicated a year or two to, was ridiculed and hated before it was even released?

Yeah actually, career artist here, second generation after my mother who was a classical portrait and landscape artist.

And you know what she taught me?

If you can’t take critique, keep your art, to yourself.

Critique is as much a part of the artistic process as concept and creation. Unless you are somehow an immaculate and perfect artist, basically unless you are God Himself, your art warrants critique and you should accept and consider it gracefully regardless of how and where it is given. My greatest artistic mentor once told a student that he didn’t have what it takes for an art career, the kid said he appreciated his honesty, walked out of class and over to the administration building, where he immediately changed his major. And there have never been any hard feelings between that student and the professor. The kid may not have had the artistic talent, but he had the artistically driven mentality that accepts, rather than takes offense to, critique.

Unloveableone.6082:

You don’t want to pay the full price for the pre-order?
Don’t. That is your choice. But they owe you NOTHING.

Completely false, they do owe people something. They stated for six months, since its first announcement, that the expansion would require the purchase of the base game. They owe people who purchased or supported the game, based on that, another means to purchase the game for a price comparably fair to those who are getting the base game rolled in for free. If they had never made any such a statement, then you would have a point, but since they did, they have an obligation to keep their word if they want to maintain the respect and trust of their playerbase.

Unloveableone.6082:

How would you feel if when you announced that it was ready for purchase, people spat on it. People lashed out at you on not only your official accounts, but your personal ones to.

But being complete jerks about all of this is revolting and reflects poorly on us as a community. And think of the devs. They have feelings too. And I’m sure many are upset right now. This may just be an expansion to you, but it’s much more than that to them.

Now all that said, this is completely deplorable behavior and I hope ANet takes just action against the accounts who have done this. Those are their private, not professional, accounts. This is like showing up at someones home and screaming in to their house from the street about the dealings of the business they work for, and worse, doing so when you don’t even know the persons opinions or involvement in the incident in question. In real life, this would be considered harassment, possibly even assault, and I wouldn’t even scoff at a permanent ban for these people.

However, as for you, OP. You are a completely despicable wormtongue for having made this thread as an underhanded attack against people whose opinions you disagree with. Rather than supporting your opinion with any amount of logic or evidence like a civilized and intelligent person, you have attempted to vilify those you disagree with with emotionally charged stereotyping base on a tiny subset of people that the majority of those who share the opinion you disagree with, would never have anything to do with.

I respect the majority of the people on these forums who share your opinion, even though I don’t agree with them, but not you, you don’t give any, and you don’t deserve any it in return.