Guild Wars 2

Arenanet, please respond to this topic.
Why did you nerf the number of dyes purchasable for 5 laurels at laurel vendor?
Do you think that someone will buy 1 dye per 5 laurels? That is 5 gold. In TP you can buy it for 20 silver…. You just made that vendor only more useless.

Yeah, buying Dyes with laurels would be stupid. But the Laurel vendor isn’t worthless.

I said more worthless…. the only thing I can use him on is buying heavy material bags… I guess that is another item on their To-Nerf-List.

The glut of UIDs will pass. The current cost of 20s is hardly a fixed value…

Nike.2631:

The glut of UIDs will pass. The current cost of 20s is hardly a fixed value…

Good point!
I just bought 100 just in case I will craft Legend at some point of time.
Thank you for this idea.

so you are saying that eventually anet wants dyes to go to five gold per? should i invest?

I think the point was to make it unprofitable to spend your Laurels on UID dyes since it is quite likely those will become scarce after the update (eventually). If you want to gamble for a high priced dye, go for it. However, since you now only need one of each, buying them off the TP is much more economical now.

If a vendor has a single item that can be used by players, he is not “worthless”, and characterizing the Laurel vendor as such is just blatant exaggeration. There are more people playing this game than just you.

Everyone needs to understand that when the patch hit, the demand for dyes INSTANTLY was divided by the number of characters each player has. The ONLY reason UIDs are needed now are for Legendary Forging.

Slither Shade.4782:

so you are saying that eventually anet wants dyes to go to five gold per? should i invest?

No. No one is saying that. Just that the price MAY rise a bit over time.

Eventually dyes prices will rise to a high level. Please keep in mind that dyes no longer drop out in the world anymore and that the market is currently flooded with an excess of dye because of the account-wide patch to the dye system.

It is still very much a market for buyers. There will be a day when players won’t believe that you could ever buy a dye for so little.

Azhure.1857:

Eventually dyes prices will rise to a high level. Please keep in mind that dyes no longer drop out in the world anymore and that the market is currently flooded with an excess of dye because of the account-wide patch to the dye system.

It is still very much a market for buyers. There will be a day when players won’t believe that you could ever buy a dye for so little.

This. I wouldn’t be suprised if one day dyes cost in excess of 20g once they fall below the 1k mark. But its a long time for now due to the market being flooded.

There’s a practical cap on dye costs based on the cheapest way to create them in the forge and the relationship to t6 mat at the laurel vendor. But they could still settle out much higher than they are now.

Because it is better then the alternative of what we had in beta. Or the market crashing becoming flooded. This is also a value they can adjust if they feel dyes are becoming too costly.

Azhure.1857:

Eventually dyes prices will rise to a high level. Please keep in mind that dyes no longer drop out in the world anymore and that the market is currently flooded with an excess of dye because of the account-wide patch to the dye system.

It is still very much a market for buyers. There will be a day when players won’t believe that you could ever buy a dye for so little.

You’re only looking at one side of the equation. The supply side. The demand side needs looking at too. Why do you think so many are flooding the market now? Because people don’t need them. Who’s to say demand won’t be even weaker in the future?

Smart investors should be buying up UIDs by the stack-ful. Assuming you plan on playing this game at least another year or two when the value is likely to jump quite a bit. At the very least, if UID values don’t recover because of lack of demand, it would be because players can seek out specific colors on the TP instead of playing RNG to finish their collection. In that event, use all of your UIDs and sell the dyes themselves. They will go up in value, a lot. In the future of course.

Hannelore.8153:

Azhure.1857:

Eventually dyes prices will rise to a high level. Please keep in mind that dyes no longer drop out in the world anymore and that the market is currently flooded with an excess of dye because of the account-wide patch to the dye system.

It is still very much a market for buyers. There will be a day when players won’t believe that you could ever buy a dye for so little.

This. I wouldn’t be suprised if one day dyes cost in excess of 20g once they fall below the 1k mark. But its a long time for now due to the market being flooded.

I would be very surprised if unid dyes ever hit 20g, with anything remotely resembling current prices for other items. The drop rate has been reduced, but so has demand; for that, individual dye prices would also have to be astronomical, but ANet provides dyes in dye packs for gems at a rate better than that.

The change from 1 laurel → 2 dyes to 5 laurels → 1 dye seems like it makes sense if the average account has as many as 10 characters -- with N characters, you get potentally Nx value from a dye now since you can use it on all N characters.

linuxotaku.4731:

Hannelore.8153:

Azhure.1857:

Eventually dyes prices will rise to a high level. Please keep in mind that dyes no longer drop out in the world anymore and that the market is currently flooded with an excess of dye because of the account-wide patch to the dye system.

It is still very much a market for buyers. There will be a day when players won’t believe that you could ever buy a dye for so little.

This. I wouldn’t be suprised if one day dyes cost in excess of 20g once they fall below the 1k mark. But its a long time for now due to the market being flooded.

I would be very surprised if unid dyes ever hit 20g, with anything remotely resembling current prices for other items. The drop rate has been reduced, but so has demand; for that, individual dye prices would also have to be astronomical, but ANet provides dyes in dye packs for gems at a rate better than that.

The change from 1 laurel -> 2 dyes to 5 laurels -> 1 dye seems like it makes sense if the average account has as many as 10 characters -- with N characters, you get potentally Nx value from a dye now since you can use it on all N characters.

They didn’t just reduce the drop rate, they eliminated the drop rate completely, it is 0%. Plus with the dye packs it is still RNG. You may very well get dyes you already have (which is a kick to the groin when you shelled out some gems for it), versus going on the TP to scroll through and buy dyes you know you need. That’s why I foresee the dyes themselves being more valuable in the future than UIDs.

People are getting over the gems for RNG items pretty quick let me tell you.

I’m wondering if AN expects folks who will be crafting future legendaries to buy their UID from the gem shop. That’s an exorbitant amount of gems/gold if they do…

dansamy.3752:

I’m wondering if AN expects folks who will be crafting future legendaries to buy their UID from the gem shop. That’s an exorbitant amount of gems/gold if they do…

You can’t buy unidentified dyes directly from the gem store. They have a chance to drop out of black lion chests. The dye packs give you a random assortment of identified dyes.

dansamy.3752:

I’m wondering if AN expects folks who will be crafting future legendaries to buy their UID from the gem shop. That’s an exorbitant amount of gems/gold if they do…

4 rare UIHDs (unidentified hue dye) into forge → UID

Gotta stop glossing over that minor fact.

Yeah but those crafted ones also take a large volume of mats each. Which again is gold, gems or time spent farming them

They nerfed dyes because they want them harder to obtain since they are account bound, and to reply to your comment about laurels being near pointless. Chauncy von Snuffles III. He alone, makes the laurels the most valuable token/currency in the entire world. And you can never have to many Chauncey’s… He’s just so…. Fancy. But yea, I must say I am glad they nerfed the laurel dyes. Farming for Lion Keys are an excellent way to get dyes. you get 1 key every 10-20min.

Aidan Savage.2078:

dansamy.3752:

I’m wondering if AN expects folks who will be crafting future legendaries to buy their UID from the gem shop. That’s an exorbitant amount of gems/gold if they do…

4 rare UIHDs (unidentified hue dye) into forge -> UID

Gotta stop glossing over that minor fact.

except the patch notes lie about that, go grab 100 strawberry +400 tomato and throw 4 uid red dye into the forge…

you cant because it doesn’t work

I’m thinking the word “rare” in that recipe is not optional.

Nike.2631:

I’m thinking the word “rare” in that recipe is not optional.

Considering there’s no info about it, that’s what makes the most sense. To top it off, the UIHD packs are available to use in MF, so clearly there’s a new recipe that uses them. What is unfortunate, is that the recipe is not as simple as 4 of them. I dont have the money, time, or bag space available to try and figure out the recipe actually is, and I dont have mystic stones to waste trying to figure it out.

I am assuming the reason for that is since now we have account wide dyes so dye demand will be seriously reduced, the majority of dye “faucets” needed to be removed or reduced to a small drip, at least until the dye market recovers.

We went from 28K on the TP before the patch to 90K now and I suspect there are still tens of thousands of unidentified dyes being horded by players waiting for the day when prices double from current levels and scarcity hits the dye market in general.

Problem with dyes is it’s going to be awhile for them to dry up and start going back up in price, but when/if they ever do, there’s hundreds of players all thinking the same thing and sitting on tens of thousands (as said above) of UID’s combined, which will re-flood the market. On paper it sounds like a great investment to buy cheap now and wait for them to go back up now that they no longer drop. It’s just everyone else is thinking the same thing and it’s going to be a kitten long time before the dyes get anywhere near super profitable.

Woljnir.7810:

Problem with dyes is it’s going to be awhile for them to dry up and start going back up in price, but when/if they ever do, there’s hundreds of players all thinking the same thing and sitting on tens of thousands (as said above) of UID’s combined, which will re-flood the market. On paper it sounds like a great investment to buy cheap now and wait for them to go back up now that they no longer drop. It’s just everyone else is thinking the same thing and it’s going to be a kitten long time before the dyes get anywhere near super profitable.

This isn’t actually how it works. This kind of thing occurs with every resource – for example it happened with Watchwork Sprockets and Silk Scraps. But its not really going to happen exactly as you say because with each day, old players leave the game and new players join. This means a few things:

• Old players hoarding dyes will be forced to sell before they leave, or the dyes sit in their bank and never get sold because they left.
• Newer players joining the game all of the time buy dyes by the dozens because they no longer drop and they don’t want to craft. Remember, you cannot craft individual dyes, those all come from unidentified dyes, unidentified dyes of a specific hue or gemstore dye packs. This means that ultimately, the supply of “unique” dyes that can be bought directly will also dry up until more UIDs are introduced.
• Crafting dyes uses large amounts of karma which has been reduced to a trickle in the last year. Most people save their karma for legendaries which require 1 million each, this means that very few people are crafting dyes.

Roughly 1 million karma, or 480 laurels or 7200 fractal relics. At 40 laurels a month that’s a year. No idea how many relics you can farm daily. Also unsure how much karma you can make per hour doing events.

Mortifer.2946:

Arenanet, please respond to this topic.
Why did you nerf the number of dyes purchasable for 5 laurels at laurel vendor?

The math is pretty straightforward. Dyes are now account-wide. So getting a dye now is equivalent to getting n dyes before, where n is the number of characters on your account.

Since you get 5 character slots with the game, that automatically meant the 10 dyes for 5 laurels had to be nerfed down to 2 dyes for 5 laurels. Then take into account all the extra character slots which have been purchased, and they felt 1 dye for 5 laurels was a more equitable reduction.

Behellagh.1468:

Roughly 1 million karma, or 480 laurels or 7200 fractal relics. At 40 laurels a month that’s a year. No idea how many relics you can farm daily. Also unsure how much karma you can make per hour doing events.

Assuming one wants to actually farm, relicwise:

82 relics from fractals 46+ (including the daily for 41-50)
71 relics from fractals 36+ (including the daily for 31-40)
60 relics from fractals 26+ (including the daily for 21-30)
44 relics from fractals 16+ (including the daily for 11-20)
38 relics from fractals 6+ (including the daily for 1-10)

If you do all these once, 295 relics per day… and several hours of fractals even if you have a good group (the more dredge you get, the longer :P). A good (but not godly) group will do a 46 with dredge in 1.5 – 2 hours, lower levels are faster of course.

But while doing that, one would also get decent karma since fractals give karma for doing levels below your personal reward level.

(formula from the wiki: (640 + 8 * Completed difficulty) * (Personal reward level – Completed difficulty) = Karma awarded. The “personal level – completed level” caps at 10.)

Assuming the farmer has reward level 50, he would get
4032 Karma for fractals 46
9280 Karma for fractals 36
8480 Karma for fractals 26
7680 Karma for fractals 16
6880 Karma for fractals 6

(maybe more with boosters, karma food just before finishing the last fractal, or whatnot)

You’d also get a few T6 mats dropped, though that’s at best a minor side bonus. But if you’re actually lacking obsidian shards for your legendary, fractals aren’t the worst thing to do. Especially if you have a good group, with PUGs the efficiency obviously decreases.

So if unid dyes are no longer drops, but they are still needed to make a legendary (100), how are these supposed to be obtained other than on the TP. There must be a feasible way of acquiring them in the future through normal game-play once the TP drys up… right?

Watch for them to make UIDs obtainable by use of GEMS from the gem-store.

Vague Memory.2817:

So if unid dyes are no longer drops, but they are still needed to make a legendary (100), how are these supposed to be obtained other than on the TP. There must be a feasible way of acquiring them in the future through normal game-play once the TP drys up… right?

By crafting rare dyes and putting them in the Mystic Forge, or buying with Laurels.

Hannelore.8153:

Vague Memory.2817:

So if unid dyes are no longer drops, but they are still needed to make a legendary (100), how are these supposed to be obtained other than on the TP. There must be a feasible way of acquiring them in the future through normal game-play once the TP drys up… right?

By crafting rare dyes and putting them in the Mystic Forge, or buying with Laurels.

Both of those methods don’t really seem very feasible to obtain 100 unids.

Im Mudbone.1437:

Watch for them to make UIDs obtainable by use of GEMS from the gem-store.

Now that you mention it… They are being seen more frequently when opening a black lion chest.
I personally got a key on a low level alt the other day and received 3UIDs when I opened one. Others on the forum have noted the increase in the drop rate from the BL chest.
However that is a very tiny sample size. Someone would need to open thousands before confirming or denying the observance.
On the wiki it states that Unidentified dyes are:
- Created in the Mystic Forge by combining four unidentified dyes of rare quality, crafted by a chef.
So there is always that to make more of them.

Guys, buy them from TP the fastest you can if you plan on crafting Legend sometime…. It’s really the best way out there.

Say goodbye to laurels, wave a fond adieu, asta lavista, aloha. If you’ve been paying attention, every alternate currency has been nerfed(karma), removed (glory) or made irrelevant (laurels). This is, in no uncertain terms, a move to a single currency market. Don’t say you weren’t warned, you watch, WvW badges are next.

Solandri.9640:

Mortifer.2946:

Arenanet, please respond to this topic.
Why did you nerf the number of dyes purchasable for 5 laurels at laurel vendor?

The math is pretty straightforward. Dyes are now account-wide. So getting a dye now is equivalent to getting n dyes before, where n is the number of characters on your account.

Since you get 5 character slots with the game, that automatically meant the 10 dyes for 5 laurels had to be nerfed down to 2 dyes for 5 laurels. Then take into account all the extra character slots which have been purchased, and they felt 1 dye for 5 laurels was a more equitable reduction.

No, the math is not that straightforward, since you forgot that the most important source of unid dyes (drops) had been reduced not to 10% of previous value but to 0%. 10 dyes for 5 laurels was actually high enough price, that almost noone bought them that way. The only reason why it is even considered now is because it is one of the only 3 remaining ways new unids can be introduced to the game now, and the other ones (crafting + forging, and black lion chests) are even worse.